Am I supposed to feel sorry for these people?

Post by **spot** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:05 am

Lubbock, Tornado Capital Of The Universe?

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:53 pm

Uh.... hello.... the people who "settled" this land, the people whom white Americans descended from, who began the process for creating the government we have today, took this land from the Native Americans and gave them only small portions of it for which to call their homes today. Is this something that we're all conveniently forgetting?

If you all want to look far back in history to see who owned what, than let's all look back far enough to see the very beginning of our own country and who truly owned it then and who took it from them.

As for the loss of human life: it may or may not be a tragedy. But the suffering of anyone at anytime and for whatever reason certainly is.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:02 pm

laneybug;698188 wrote: Uh.... hello.... the people who "settled" this land, the people whom white Americans descended from, who began the process for creating the government we have today, took this land from the Native Americans and gave them only small portions of it for which to call their homes today. Is this something that we're all conveniently forgetting?

If you all want to look far back in history to see who owned what, than let's all look back far enough to see the very beginning of our own country and who truly owned it then and who took it from them.

As for the loss of human life: it may or may not be a tragedy. But the suffering of anyone at anytime and for whatever reason certainly is.

Uh..."hello"....let's stop that tiredass old drag about that because the alleged "native" americans took this land from someone else so don't hand me that. Land has been bought, stolen, fought for, won, lost and traded for millenia and yet all we hear about is whitey's dirty deeds. Enough of that crap! I'll repeat what I said earlier- I didn't take anyone's land I make no apologies for being here. I deserve to be here. Illegal foreigners do not. It's that simple. They cause their own suffering by their wrongdoings. No Laney, your retort is textbook and frankly, whiney. That just doesn't wash anymore.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:19 am

RedGlitter;698246 wrote: Enough of that crap! I'll repeat what I said earlier- I didn't take anyone's land I make no apologies for being here. I deserve to be here. Illegal foreigners do not. It's that simple. They cause their own suffering by their wrongdoings. The great justification for participating in the early dawn of the Internet record is that generations yet unborn will trawl sites like this in order to understand their own history. Allow me to draw your attention, dear offspring, to this post in particular. I invite you to join me in shuddering.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:30 am

spot;698375 wrote: The great justification for participating in the early dawn of the Internet record is that generations yet unborn will trawl sites like this in order to understand their own history. Allow me to draw your attention, dear offspring, to this post in particular. I invite you to join me in shuddering.

Spot, shudder all you like but understanding one's own history does not warrant painting every generation to come with blame for things that happened before those generations appeared.

Did you know we've been paying for illegal aliens' chemotherapy!?!! I'm broke as we speak, still trying to pay off my mother's bill, but if she had been here wrongfully, she would have gotten treatment for free. Now you tell me there's nothing wrong with that. That makes the US an absolute disgrace, that we take better care of people who are here illegally than we do our own citizens.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:00 am

RedGlitter;698393 wrote: Did you know we've been paying for illegal aliens' chemotherapy!?!! I'm broke as we speak, still trying to pay off my mother's bill, but if she had been here wrongfully, she would have gotten treatment for free. Now you tell me there's nothing wrong with that. That makes the US an absolute disgrace, that we take better care of people who are here illegally than we do our own citizens.

Not according to all the evidence I've been able to find, and I'm delighted that you've found an example which can show me to be mistaken. Let's track this one right the way back to where it comes from and put the facts into the thread. Tell me something about the illegal aliens' chemotherapy, and we'll find the story somewhere.

Here's The Myrtle Beach Sun-News (South Carolina) of April 8, 2006: RALEIGH "Illegal immigrant's chemotherapy ineligible":An illegal immigrant did not have an emergency condition when he received chemotherapy and Medicaid should not have covered his treatment, the state Supreme Court ruled Friday in reversing a lower court decision.

Medicaid allows states to be reimbursed for Medicaid costs of illegal immigrants only when medical treatment is deemed an emergency, according to court records. The N.C. Supreme Court noted a doctor testified that without treatment Guatemala native Hector Diaz's condition eventually would have been an emergency. But his condition didn't meet that threshold during chemotherapy, the doctor said.

Diaz's condition during chemotherapy "was stable and, therefore, he was no longer entitled to Medicaid coverage," the court said. Court documents say that in October 2000, Diaz came down with a sore throat, nausea and other ailments that were later diagnosed as symptoms of leukemia. He was treated at Moses Cone Memorial Hospital in Greensboro beginning that month, including intermittent chemotherapy treatments through July 2002.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:11 am

spot;698405 wrote: Not according to all the evidence I've been able to find, and I'm delighted that you've found an example which can show me to be mistaken. Let's track this one right the way back to where it comes from and put the facts into the thread. Tell me something about the illegal aliens' chemotherapy, and we'll find the story somewhere.

Here are some prime examples, including a mention of my state of Arizona...

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michel ... 010202.asp

And my post from earlier this morning regarding NY State...

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=31662

(As an aside I happened to be Googling something about 20 minutes later and the above post showed up- now that's fast!)

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:11 am

laneybug;698188 wrote: Uh.... hello.... the people who "settled" this land, the people whom white Americans descended from, who began the process for creating the government we have today, took this land from the Native Americans and gave them only small portions of it for which to call their homes today. Is this something that we're all conveniently forgetting?

If you all want to look far back in history to see who owned what, than let's all look back far enough to see the very beginning of our own country and who truly owned it then and who took it from them.

As for the loss of human life: it may or may not be a tragedy. But the suffering of anyone at anytime and for whatever reason certainly is.

Hells Bells! I didn't take this land from anyone and I didn't own any slaves either. So can we just get past that whole thing. I have enough things of my own to be responsible for without having to be responsible for things that happened 200+ years ago - before MY ancestors came LEGALLY to this country.

I am really cheesed off by this whole thing and I am soo sick and tired of just the whole idea of offering these people (some who have been here illegally for years) guest worker passes and amnesty.

I am tired of calling the utility company (or whoever) and having to press 1 to hear what ever it is I really don't want to deal with at all in English. While English may not be the "official" language of the country - it certainly is the language that has been spoken here for quite some time and people who come here legally seem to be rather proud to master it. And yet I can't converse with half the people in my apartment building as they don't speak it. :-5 Their kids can - and they have plenty of them - but the women, Nope, nada, nothin. Pretty convenient that I can't tell them not to throw my wet clothes out of the washer onto the floor so they can do their laundry.

I pay my taxes and have for years. I am sick and tired of having to fight for any single thing I need when these people who are illegal seem to be handed everything on a silver platter.

Sorry - I really should be sorry that this woman died. But I am not. I am sure that if the non - English speaking neighbors that I have were more respectful of quiet hours (didn't have their diapered children running around under my bedroom window screaming at midnight). Or if I didn't have to wade through the toys and food wrappers that the children have thrown off the balcony onto the front sidewalk. Or if my dog didn't cut his foot on that beer cap thrown on the lawn the last time they sat out on the balcony drinking and getting loud late on a weeknight.

(I am tired of a lot of other things totally unrelated to illegal aliens, too. Maybe I am just getting grumpier in my old age.:rolleyes:)

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:47 am

RedGlitter;698407 wrote: Here are some prime examples, including a mention of my state of Arizona...

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michel ... 010202.asp

And my post from earlier this morning regarding NY State...

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=31662

(As an aside I happened to be Googling something about 20 minutes later and the above post showed up- now that's fast!)Yes Google's gone into overdrive, it's getting closer to real-time updates. It was averaging about 3 days a year ago.

The 2002 article originally from http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com is a plainly disgraceful op-ed report but it highlights what's happened. Before 2000 there was an assumption that the poor would not be left to die of medical emergencies simply because they had no resources or insurance. Since then the Republican administration has tried to restrict funding regardless of the consequences. Some states which can't stomach that sort of barbarity have gone their own way:In the wake of stricter federal rules, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and 20 other states have extended full Medicaid coverage, using only state money, to some immigrants who do not qualify for federal aid.... but there and elsewhere Federal funding has been withdrawn under audit where an immediate emergency isn't recognised by the accountancy reviewers.

So, you're quite right, there are finally some parts of the US where full Medicaid provisions are now becoming available to undocumented aliens on exactly the same terms that they're available to everyone else who qualifies, and on an identical financial-test basis. I hadn't seen that before. It will still take a populist revolution to bring in any respectable degree of universal free healthcare in the US and, judging by the tone in this thread, it's never going to happen. Stubborn pride, "my nation right or wrong", will keep killing American citizens by the million.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:56 am

Stubborn pride, "my nation right or wrong", will keep killing American citizens by the million.

There are those people, to be sure, with that mindset. Then there are the people who are pro-illegal immigrant and think nothing we have should be denied them. Then you have the people who want to be able to have the same things the illegal immigrants are getting free. I'd be among the last group. I do not hate foreigners or immigrants. I do have a disrespect for ones who come here illegally and take what they can get. There are people I know right now who can't afford all their medications because it's either that or the house payment and a few groceries. They can't afford insurance and medicare/caid doesn't consider all medications and care to be necessary (covered) even if doctors do. Knowing that all someone has to do is make it over here and they can get their needs met gratis is a slap in the face of the American citizen. That's all I'm trying to say.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:00 am

RedGlitter;698419 wrote: Then you have the people who want to be able to have the same things the illegal immigrants are getting free. I'd be among the last group.Presumably - I ask just to make sure I understand - these are US citizens who don't qualify for Medicare that you're talking about?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:13 am

spot;698421 wrote: Presumably - I ask just to make sure I understand - these are US citizens who don't qualify for Medicare that you're talking about?

Sorry I wasn't clear there. No not necessarily; Medicare doesn't pay for everything. It covers a lot but not as much as it probably should. There are folks on Medicare who still can't afford all that they need.

It's about fairness. If I need a medical treatment or operation why should I have to pay for it when I could get it for free if I were illegal? Does the fact that I might be able to afford it justify that? If we were talking about a foreign person who followed the right channels and was here legally then I would have no problem with the state/govt helping them. But when those same benefits are given to a person who should not be here, it causes a lot of resentment. I think the anger that has been coming out in (mine at least) posts on this issue is more resentment of illegal immigrants and our own government more than anything else.

Um...did I answer that right? It's still very early for me.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:21 am

RedGlitter;698424 wrote: Sorry I wasn't clear there. No not necessarily; Medicare doesn't pay for everything. It covers a lot but not as much as it probably should. There are folks on Medicare who still can't afford all that they need.

It's about fairness. If I need a medical treatment or operation why should I have to pay for it when I could get it for free if I were illegal? Does the fact that I might be able to afford it justify that? If we were talking about a foreign person who followed the right channels and was here legally then I would have no problem with the state/govt helping them. But when those same benefits are given to a person who should not be here, it causes a lot of resentment. I think the anger that has been coming out in posts on this issue is more resentment of illegal immigrants and my own government more than anything else.

Um...did I answer that right? It's still very early for me.

I thought we'd decided that undocumented aliens have access - not free, but billable - to emergency medical treatment which can't be refused by the hospital they present themseves to - an exact right that US citizens also have - and that in about 20 states they also now, recently, have state-funded access to the Medicare program for which, like US citizens, they must qualify financially. You and I have done those checks in this thread, that's what we found. Are you now saying this description of what they can access is still wrong? If it is, we need to refine it to an accurate statement.

The answer to "If I need a medical treatment or operation why should I have to pay for it when I could get it for free if I were illegal" is that you don't qualify for Medicare, presumably, whereas in those 20 states these undocumented aliens do qualify for it if their financial circumstances are below the qualifying level. By all means lobby your representatives to have those access laws repealed, but that's the reason.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:39 am

I thought we'd decided that undocumented aliens have access - not free, but billable - to emergency medical treatment which can't be refused by the hospital they present themseves to - an exact right that US citizens also have - and that in about 20 states they also now, recently, have state-funded access to the Medicare program for which, like US citizens, they must qualify financially.

But that's my grievance. If they're "undocumented" they should not have any right to qualify for those benefits. Those services are for US citizens. Where does the money come from to run Medicare and state programs? Here in AZ, we have AHCCCS (Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System) and we also have the national WIC (Women Infants Children) programs. How much better could the US citizens who are on those programs benefit if illegals were not taking a share? Right now Medicare won't afford eyeglasses or dental for example, (even emergency dental such as a broken tooth) presumably because they don't have the funds to cover stuff like that. They're considered luxuries. If we removed illegal aliens from these services, these programs would have more funding available to help the US citizens who need the assistance and US citizens wouldn't be resentful of being forced to pick up the tab through taxes, for people who couldn't even get here the legal way.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:47 am

And you're the richest, most humane, most advanced, most desirable society the planet's ever seen, right? The mixed messages astound me, like the lack of such simple things as an ability to even count the rough-sleeping homeless nationally much less get them into some form of sheltered housing. Do you realize that figure's now in the millions? What's the price of being so rich and humane and advanced and desirable? Social wreckage on a huge scale, it strikes me. A complete lack of regard for the fundamentals of social well-being. This is richness turned to backward mass poverty and the driving force for it is a mistaken selfish greed that's rewarded only for a minority.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:51 am

What does any of that have to do with what I said? Is it supposed to imply that we're a soulless nation because we're tired of being used? That doesn't wash for me.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:01 am

RedGlitter;698767 wrote: What does any of that have to do with what I said? Is it supposed to imply that we're a soulless nation because we're tired of being used? That doesn't wash for me.

It was the unbelievable squalor implied by "Right now Medicare won't afford eyeglasses or dental for example, (even emergency dental such as a broken tooth) presumably because they don't have the funds to cover stuff like that. They're considered luxuries".

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:30 am

spot;698773 wrote: It was the unbelievable squalor implied by "Right now Medicare won't afford eyeglasses or dental for example, (even emergency dental such as a broken tooth) presumably because they don't have the funds to cover stuff like that. They're considered luxuries".

Spot, I don't consider needing eyeglasses or non-cosmetic dental work to be luxuries. I consider them necessities. What other reason do you know of for their lack of providing these things and how does that possibly imply squalor? You must think that the US streets really are paved with gold. We may not all be eating shoe leather for dinner but I assure you we have our poor.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:56 am

RedGlitter;698815 wrote: You must think that the US streets really are paved with gold. We may not all be eating shoe leather for dinner but I assure you we have our poor.That, then, considering the sky-high US Gross National Product, is entirely to your shame. Your welfare priorities, as a country, are grotesque. Applauding this swim or sink mentality, when it involves such a complete absence of any respectable social safety-net, in a population that considers itself the wealthiest, finest and most praiseworthy nation on earth, only highlights the prevailing success of media propaganda among your unthinking majority.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:20 pm

spot;698858 wrote: That, then, considering the sky-high US Gross National Product, is entirely to your shame. Your welfare priorities, as a country, are grotesque. Applauding this swim or sink mentality, when it involves such a complete absence of any respectable social safety-net, in a population that considers itself the wealthiest, finest and most praiseworthy nation on earth, only highlights the prevailing success of media propaganda among your unthinking majority.

Spot, do I detect some resentment? I know that's supposed to be our reputation (wealthiest, finest country etc) but that would be the national opinion and not the opinion of every citizen here. Praiseworthy? We have our strong points. But we still have very hungry and homeless people among us and those who can't get their medical needs taken care of so I for one am not about to start singing our praises.

Could you expand a bit on what you think is grotesque about our welfare? Earlier it seemed you were turning your nose up at the idea that Medicare recipients should get glasses and dental work. I'm not sure I understand.

I guess for me, what it boils down to is legal citizens first. I don't feel illegal aliens need to be using the benefits which should be set aside for legal citizens.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:47 pm

LilacDragon;698408 wrote: Hells Bells! I didn't take this land from anyone and I didn't own any slaves either. So can we just get past that whole thing. I have enough things of my own to be responsible for without having to be responsible for things that happened 200+ years ago - before MY ancestors came LEGALLY to this country.

I am really cheesed off by this whole thing and I am soo sick and tired of just the whole idea of offering these people (some who have been here illegally for years) guest worker passes and amnesty.

(I am tired of a lot of other things totally unrelated to illegal aliens, too. Maybe I am just getting grumpier in my old age.:rolleyes:)

My post was in response to someone's earlier post about Mexicans trying to reclaim California, New Mexico, etc. because it once belonged to them, or so the story goes. I was simply showing the progress of our own taking of land, so why would it be any worse for Mexicans or anyone else to try to take land? All countries have done it. I was not suggesting that any American here should take responsibility for that.... and I certainly wasn't talking about anything to do with slaves.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:52 pm

spot;698858 wrote: That, then, considering the sky-high US Gross National Product, is entirely to your shame. Your welfare priorities, as a country, are grotesque. Applauding this swim or sink mentality, when it involves such a complete absence of any respectable social safety-net, in a population that considers itself the wealthiest, finest and most praiseworthy nation on earth, only highlights the prevailing success of media propaganda among your unthinking majority.

Spot, I have to completely agree with you on this point. Our welfare situation here is absolutely appalling.

And I don't sense any resentment in your post. Many Americans, and certainly the media, do tout us as the best nation ever. I know it's bull, and so does anyone else who has half a brain cell. We have our good points and we have our terrible points. But, in this situation, pride definitely goes before a fall.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:03 pm

RedGlitter;698246 wrote: Uh..."hello"....let's stop that tiredass old drag about that because the alleged "native" americans took this land from someone else so don't hand me that. Land has been bought, stolen, fought for, won, lost and traded for millenia and yet all we hear about is whitey's dirty deeds. Enough of that crap! I'll repeat what I said earlier- I didn't take anyone's land I make no apologies for being here. I deserve to be here. Illegal foreigners do not. It's that simple. They cause their own suffering by their wrongdoings. No Laney, your retort is textbook and frankly, whiney. That just doesn't wash anymore.

You've missed my point. Land has been bought, stolen, fought for and won, etc., yes, I agree. That's obvious. So, if this has been happening for millenia, and was the foundation of our own country (which was the point I was making) than why is it so bad that Mexicans are trying to steal and fight for land that is currently under our so-called ownership? It's a natural occurrence, as you've pointed out. You may not like it, and it may not be "fair", but it's bound to happen as the course of history has already shown us. To hate them for invading our country is equivalent to the Iraqis hating us for invading theirs. We may not be trying to take their country over and we're trying to help, but we're definitely there in their home. Invasion happens all the time and for many different reasons. Not even almighty America is exempt from that.

That is the reality of our world. To see anything other than what the reality is and complain about it is what is truly whiney.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:35 pm

laneybug;699086 wrote: You've missed my point. Land has been bought, stolen, fought for and won, etc., yes, I agree. That's obvious. So, if this has been happening for millenia, and was the foundation of our own country (which was the point I was making) than why is it so bad that Mexicans are trying to steal and fight for land that is currently under our so-called ownership? It's a natural occurrence, as you've pointed out. You may not like it, and it may not be "fair", but it's bound to happen as the course of history has already shown us. To hate them for invading our country is equivalent to the Iraqis hating us for invading theirs. We may not be trying to take their country over and we're trying to help, but we're definitely there in their home. Invasion happens all the time and for many different reasons. Not even almighty America is exempt from that.

That is the reality of our world. To see anything other than what the reality is and complain about it is what is truly whiney.

If that's the case, then we have every right to try and stop it and keep what we claim as ours. After all- fair is fair.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:58 pm

"Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug

dealer an unlicensed pharmacist". That's not mine, but I love it.

I think what really bothers me personally is the subtlety of the "invasion".

Actually, it's not so subtle any more. So many of them having "anchor

babies" it's ridiculous. I think too many citizens

are just letting it happen to the

US, too. When you can go to Lowe's and find all of their signs in English

AND Spanish (try going to Oaxaca and getting a sign in English!!) and the

freakin' Quaker oatmeal boxes in one of our stores have ALL of the boxes

with the Spanish language side to the front, there's a real problem.

Here in my county we have a terrible problem with the lawbreakers.

Buying junker cars and no problem if they get impounded, go get another

one or buy it back from the junkyard, even.

Mexico hasn't gone to war with the US, hell no. But America better wake

the f**k up and do something. Build the fence. Send convicts to pick

the crops. Something other than sit on their butts and see all these goods

and services go straight to people for whom it was NOT intended.

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:18 pm

laneybug;699082 wrote: My post was in response to someone's earlier post about Mexicans trying to reclaim California, New Mexico, etc. because it once belonged to them, or so the story goes. I was simply showing the progress of our own taking of land, so why would it be any worse for Mexicans or anyone else to try to take land? All countries have done it. I was not suggesting that any American here should take responsibility for that.... and I certainly wasn't talking about anything to do with slaves.

I live in MICHIGAN! I don't recall it ever being under the control of the Mexican government.

I am just very, very tired of trying to be PC for every race and religion that comes to this county and every one making excuses as to why we should GIVE things to people because of what happened generations ago.

It seems that my rights, as an American citizen are less important then every other person who comes to this country - legally or illegally.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:54 pm

Scrat;699122 wrote: MF. Our system will confuse the hell out of anyone, we give liver tranplants to baseball stars who drink themselves to death and heart transplants to death row convicts that don't take care of themselves afterwards and die anyway and on the other end of the spectrum there was a 7 year old boy that died from a brain infection that was the result of a toothache.

Are you confused yet?

Confused no, appalled - most definitely.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:00 pm

RedGlitter;699096 wrote: If that's the case, then we have every right to try and stop it and keep what we claim as ours. After all- fair is fair.

Definitely.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:08 pm

In my opinion, the problem comes down to the US government for not controlling the borders. Mexico is an incredibly difficult country to live in. It certainly does not have the opportunities that America has. I certainly can't blame any of them for wanting to better their situation by coming here, but I can blame the US government for giving free hand outs in the first place and for not controlling our borders better.

I don't understand why Spanish being treated as our "second language" by being on cereal boxes, etc. is such a terrible thing. Go to Quebec. They have English and French on everything. What's the big deal? There are many legal residents of the US whose primary language is Spanish. Spanish along with English on signs, etc. is not just a symptom of the illegal immigrant issue.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 pm

It's a big deal because English is recognized even if unofficially, as the primary language of the US. Those legal Spanish speaking people should learn English well enough so that their oatmeal doesn't have to be labeled in Spanish.

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:11 pm

laneybug;699499 wrote:

I don't understand why Spanish being treated as our "second language" by being on cereal boxes, etc. is such a terrible thing. Go to Quebec. They have English and French on everything. What's the big deal? There are many legal residents of the US whose primary language is Spanish. Spanish along with English on signs, etc. is not just a symptom of the illegal immigrant issue.

When I lived on Guam (a U.S. territory) everyone spoke English, even though it wasn't the native tongue of the locals. In four years, I never met anyone who didn't speak English.

When I lived in Germany, if I wanted to shop "on the economy" I had better know at least some rudimentary German or I was going to have a hard time.

If I was moving to a foreign country - the polite thing for me to do is to learn the native tongue. I really don't think it is too much to ask of someone who is coming to this country expecting all the rights and priveldges of the citizens to learn to speak the language.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:28 pm

Most countries of the world use more than one language. The UK does, for example - even Wales is fully sign-posted in two languages. My toothpaste and shampoo are both labeled in Polish, not English. I thought the sole mitigating attraction of the US was its multiculturalism.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:32 pm

When my great grandparents came here from Germany, they forbade their sons and daughters to speak German. Even in the house. They said "We're Americans now, we speak English." On one hand the language was lost for us generations coming afterward, however I have nothing but respect for the sentiment. If you want to honor multiculturalism, then use the language of the people who make it possible for you to do so. That's my opinion.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:37 pm

RedGlitter;699520 wrote: If you want to honor multiculturalism, then use the language of the people who make it possible for you to do so. That's my opinion.White supremacism still holds a place in the American Heartland then, I see.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:45 pm

spot;699522 wrote: White supremacism still holds a place in the American Heartland then, I see.

No...has nothing to do with sordidness such as that.

It's a matter of courtesy for the home country. When I go to Mexico I use the few words I know- it doesn't mean much but I try.

The ones who don't even attempt to learn the language are the ones that get me.

Spot, are you playing devil's advocate or do you seriously take me for a white supremacist?

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:53 pm

Oh come on, look at what you wrote - "use the language of the people who make it possible for you to do so". What level of cultural imperialism does that represent?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:07 pm

spot;699529 wrote: Oh come on, look at what you wrote - "use the language of the people who make it possible for you to do so". What level of cultural imperialism does that represent?

I don't feel it represents imperialism at all. I hate to be cliche but when in Rome...

I don't care if anyone speaks whatever language they use in their home, but it's offensive when they have been living here a while and still don't know or bother to use English. I think it was LD who pointed out if she were living in a different country, she would make time to learn and use the language they spoke there. Now what is wrong about that?

It also costs money for the government to have to print everything in multiple languages. Once again, that's an example of how our government caters to people who just don't care enough to live here.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:53 pm

magenta flame;699559 wrote: So multiculturalism only happens in English speaking countries? Or just in America?

And you should speak the language of a country out of gratitude?

where's my Bwahahahaha dog i need my Bwahahahha dog!!!!!:-5

Trust you Magenta, to miss the point and run with one of your own making. :rolleyes:

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:19 pm

KB.;694998 wrote: This country was founded by murderers and oppurtunists (sp). Our ancestors invaded the lands and took them from the Native Americans using any means available, from guile and lies to small pox infested blankets and forced assimilation.

KB....... Show us ALL (FACTS) where my ancestors or my country (USA) used small pox infested blankets.........That is a friggin hoax.

And if you believe that my (your ancestors) were "murderers and oppurtunists " (sic) Then why don't you get the hell out if they were SOOOO bad to your way of thinking? I believe they were "PATRIOTS".

OOPS ...........

so we invaded all these lands you speak of and I suppose to your way of thinkin, if we would have never invaded the North American continent, then the poor Red Man would still be using Bows and Arrows?

Do you REALLY think they would?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:44 pm

spot;696355 wrote: Some are insured, some are rich, some are incapable of paying, some could be forced into payment and left with nothing. I think the entire US medical system is a complete catastrophe brought on by your lifelong federal commitment to military overspending.

OH MR spot..........

Tell us ALL how great your country is in supplying FREE aid to illegals.....

Or how about your natives?

link:

One in eight patients waiting over a year for treatment, admits minister

link:

16 August 2007

220-DAY CANCER WAIT HELL

Victims' agony over targets failure

Women waiting to hear if they are at an increased risk of getting breast cancer have to wait up to two years for gene test results, a campaign group has said. Charity CancerBACUP found over a quarter of women had to wait between one and two years to find out the results of the test which would tell them if they had an increased breast cancer risk.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/heal ... er_results

I can go on and but I won't because I KNOW we (USA) have the BEST health system going.... PERIOD!!!!!!!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:47 pm

BTS;699571 wrote:

I can go on and but I won't because I KNOW we (USA) have the BEST health system going.... PERIOD!!!!!!!

Can we have a vote on this amongst our American members?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:02 am

:-3Bryn Mawr;699572 wrote: Can we have a vote on this amongst our American members?

So tell me Bryn WHY your socialist health care is better than Americas pay as you go, unless you are broke or an illegal then it is FREE system?

Can we have a vote on this amongst our European, Canadian and any other members?

PS:

What is the extra tax rate to have this fine medical service available to you?