Misty-eyed FG nostalgia?

[Lulu2]

"The members are supposed to be adults. You would expect them to act like adults."



+++++++++++++++ Yes...you would, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, they sometimes don't.

[Accountable]

Wow. This thread really grew today.



I said I've changed. When I joined here it was my escape. Life wasn't being particularly nice to me and the last thing I wanted to do was take it on. I had all day to post, so I could indulge my passions and joke around too. I love doing both. When I found work I couldn't post as much, so I generally post where I feel most passionate. I've found that some of the newer members think I'm serious all the time. Well, lately, they're mostly right.



I will ask someone to explain their opinion several times if I feel it's important. If that's harassment, .... 'kay.



I've made great friendships here. Recently I had a serious falling out with one of my all-time favs. It still hurts a bit but it'll heal. Until then I won't be so friendly & accepting. That's me.



I think the main reason things have changed is simple familiarity. Familiarity breeds contempt, and lots of us have little else but contempt for some others. I'm not sure that's avoidable, but for the most part, enemies don't stalk each other here. They battle in the appropriate places then steer clear when the situation calls for that. Exceptions? Sure, but we deal with it.



FG is my home. I don't feel particularly "at home" in my home right now, but I'm convinced that it's more my own spirit than the forum.

[Peg]

Lulu2;541166 wrote: "The members are supposed to be adults. You would expect them to act like adults."



+++++++++++++++ Yes...you would, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, they sometimes don't.


:p I'm telling my mommy!

[Erinna1112]

flopstock;540772 wrote: See now lulu... you and red are two people that I have no trouble disagreeing with on all sorts of stuff... , but -to be honest, that

is one of the things I enjoy most about you two, we disagree and it's okay. We don't let it get personal. The only time I feel the need to get personal with you two, is when I am trying to be supportive. And you two return the favor... polar opposite in our views on things, but friends anyways..



I like that!:-6


THAT is what I think we need more of. If it's called "love and compassion" or "sex drugs and rock & roll" or just "old-fashioned common sense"...whatever it's termed, this is the concept that needs to be emphasized, IMO.

[Lulu2]

PINKS "Sometimes we react based on emotive response rather than rationally, I suppose it's human nature. At the end of the day, we all a choice as to how we respond, or whether we respond at all. I guess it's easy to take things personally sometimes, but that doesn't excuse insults, name calling or any of the other codswallop that sometimes happens."

++++++++++ You make a good point, Pinkster!

When someone goes to the trouble to register as a new member, only to pointedly challenge an existing member and LEAP into a heated discussion, it means that person spent a lot of time planning something "covert."

This has happened often enough that anyone could notice. It's not an impulse--it's planned rudeness and there's no excuse for it. ADULTS should be able to contain themselves.

Would people be as calculating and deliberate if we could actually SEE them?

[RedGlitter]

Accountable, I am sorry to hear things aren't so hot for you right now. I hope they improve greatly very soon for you. I too had a falling out with a favorite person here. I think you might know who I am referring to. I hope this person and I can somehow meet in the middle again.

I apologize for the thread hijack.

[Bez]

Well things have changed but it is difficult to put a finger on what is different and Why things have changed.



There have always been 'bust ups' in the 18 months that I've been here, and some of them were pretty vicious......that seems to be one of the things that HASN'T changed and I doubt if it will as behind the 'puty' screen we are just people after all.



The chemistry of the people here has changed which has altered the dynamics. There are less serious discussions....yes there used to be discussions that got heated, but no blood was shed....differences of opion YES but plenty of RESPECT for those differences.



Some folks real life situations have changed dramatically too which has made an impact on things here.



I need to think about this a bit more, but that's my input for now.



FG has all the facilities needed (and more) for this forum to flourish and survive. It also has a Head Gardener with just the right amount of control. (imo).



The members make the forum....only WE can make things work out here.

[cars]

"Nothing" stays the same forever! Forums come, Forums go, & Forums change! Some like the change, some dislike the change, & some are indifferent to the change. As the old saying goes:



"You can please some of the people all of the time, & you can please all of the people some of the time,

but you can't please all of the people all of the time!"



"FORUM GARDEN" STILL RULES!!!!

[Carl44]

when i first joined there were fights there are still fights , its like the pub you make new friends , some of your old friends stop drinking or they drink somewhere else , you find out that some people were not as nice as you thought or that some a hole is actually quite nice , i've only had one fight in here i have no one on ignore , i've been picked on kept quite hoping it would just die down only for it to keep going , i dont think i've ever said a bad word to any one that has not been really vile to me first and i've ignored a few people that have tried to fight with me ,all in all i think the garden is a much better place now than when i first joined , there is no more of a little group getting together planning attacks on some unfortunate soul ,its much more happy now i used to look in on the garden ages before i joined , there will always be fights , you cant expect to get on with every body all the time

[Clint]

cars;541316 wrote: "Nothing" stays the same forever! Forums come, Forums go, & Forums change! Some like the change, some dislike the change, & some are indifferent to the change. As the old saying goes:



"You can please some of the people all of the time, & you can please all of the people some of the time,

but you can't please all of the people all of the time!"



"FORUM GARDEN" STILL RULES!!!!


I have to agree. I've wondered about the change. It is what it is. Every time you add a different ingredient to the soup it changes flavor.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Hey Pinky did you find the answers you were looking for . :-6

[devist8me]

My post here is thoughts throughout the entire thread and not just directed at recent posters.

Personally, I don't feel it's admins job to babysit his forum. He has enough going on dealing with real problems or making this place fun for everyone with the extra features the software has. In reality, adults should be able to work things out on their own issues, but I realize that doesn't always happen. Add to the fact that someone is called out in a open forum on something, they always feel that HAVE to respond on others will think less of them. That's not always the case. If you just can't stand something or someone for what is being said, your best bet is to walk away for a day or two. By the time you get back, things have blown over and it's someone else's turn.

As for the mods here, I think they are doing an excellent job. I think they probably get bothered with a lot more BS than is needed. I can count on one hand the number of times I have requested a mod on something and each time, the issue was handled quickly and fairly. The one time I reported a post was actually a joke (and luckily, the person who it was intended for got the reported post email) but again, it was handled super fast and without hesitation.

As for changes, I've not really seen a lot.I've seen more of a pattern. It varies a little but goes something like this: Someone will start some crap, others will get involved based on whether they agree or disagree. Someone gets offended which makes the drama last longer. About 15 threads are started expressing "love thy neighbor". People get banned or take a break. Everyone gets along again and really watches how they post so as not to mess up the atmosphere. Crap resumes, whether it be intentional or just disagreeing on something. It's just the way forums work. But face it, when a war is going on in a thread, everyone flocks to see whats going on. It's like a car wreck, you just can't help but look. That's how I know whats going on around here when I visit. I just check "who's online" and see what thread is most active.

[Bez]

This thread has helped me to put things in perspective....and Clints post said it all.

[YZGI]

Clint;541423 wrote: I have to agree. I've wondered about the change. It is what it is. Every time you add a different ingredient to the soup it changes flavor.
I'm thinking this soup needs a Hawaiian Hula dancer added to get that full bodied flavour.

[Carl44]

i dont know about soup wizey i always end up in a stew when your around:wah:

[minks]

And opinions.....

We all have our opinions and we ourselves as individuals think we are right....

I think a couple things here....

When opinions are spoken and folks disagree with them many get offended... hackles go up and it feels like a war has to happen, then others come in and pick sides and blamo we are thrown into a tizzy.

This breeds a kind of intimidation factor, it breeds insecurities and it breeds stifled posts.

I have to think it should lead back to respect.

I respect many many of you posters....

I don't have to respect everybody, and I for one am trying my hardest to allow you your opinions and keep my mouth shut about it.

You have an opinion you are allowed to voice it. I don't have to agree with it, and I don't have to make it a national offense.

Yes as humans things change, our RL changes and then we change on here. Our relationships on here are like waves they go in ebbs and flows and we have to adjust. As well others have to accept we humans have our issues and do change.

I have to wonder do we need our muck pit where we can jump in and fling dirt at our enemies... I dunno part of me says yes, throw it around get it out of your system then come out shaking hands and it ends.

One thing I have to say to the Credit of this forum...HUGE CUDOS to those of you who can waltz into a feuding thread and difuse it with humor and wisdom, FG does well at that, and yes at times that doesn't feel like it's enough and people go into PM's and other forums to express that... but hey it's an attempt.

We can't love everybody and we can't make everybody love us. We can only accept them for what they are.

[devist8me]

minks;541523 wrote:

I have to wonder do we need our muck pit where we can jump in and fling dirt at our enemies... I dunno part of me says yes, throw it around get it out of your system then come out shaking hands and it ends.




I've seen this work well. It's a place where someone can get it off their chest instead of letting it fester and making snide comments all over the board. Mods have a dumping ground to drop those nasty posts/threads that pop up on the main board as well.

[minks]

devist8me;541528 wrote: I've seen this work well. It's a place where someone can get it off their chest instead of letting it fester and making snide comments all over the board. Mods have a dumping ground to drop those nasty posts/threads that pop up on the main board as well.


yeah that is what I was thinking too.

[Lulu2]

Let me offer another possibility about the "don't let it fester/get it off your chest" idea. There are members at FG who only show up when someone's in a war. Some people ONLY post to certain members when they sense that member is under attack. They seem to thrive on public conflict.

Many others do not.

I think we should ask ourselves just WHY it is that we let things "fester," and WHY it is that we need to "get it off our chest."

If I don't enjoy someone's posts, I'll leave them alone. There doesn't seem to be much use in having a flame war, particularly when you believe the person is secretly AVID to start spewing bile and venom.

IMHO...people who live for "calling out" others should probably keep their memberships in R-R current and spare the rest of us their public displays.

[minks]

Lulu2;541562 wrote: Let me offer another possibility about the "don't let it fester/get it off your chest" idea. There are members at FG who only show up when someone's in a war. Some people ONLY post to certain members when they sense that member is under attack. They seem to thrive on public conflict.

Many others do not.

I think we should ask ourselves just WHY it is that we let things "fester," and WHY it is that we need to "get it off our chest."

If I don't enjoy someone's posts, I'll leave them alone. There doesn't seem to be much use in having a flame war, particularly when you believe the person is secretly AVID to start spewing bile and venom.

IMHO...people who live for "calling out" others should probably keep their memberships in R-R current and spare the rest of us their public displays.


Hah we have a few of those indeed.

[Lulu2]

Yes, we do. People whose egos are so large they feel the need to display their verbal acuity or their viciousness in public, to the dismay of the rest of us. OR--the ones who appear cute and cuddly in one thread and viperous in another, depending on whom they like at the moment.

Really, it's all about "LOOK AT ME," isn't it? Instead of positive contributions (or simply silence,) it's about causing a fuss.....rather like a two-year-old, who considers negative attention worthwhile, because people are looking at him.

This kind of behavior is fine, if the focus of the forum IS flaming/calling out/multi-syllable insults.

But the Garden's rules don't support this. It's certainly not what I signed on for..and I'll bet that's true for the majority, too.

[weeder]

One of Minks observations was very true. In the beginning, we all wanted to impress each other. We put our best foot forward, and with carefully chosen words, we created on line personalities. I remember being chided, or kidded, about something foolish I may have expressed. But it was never cruel, and never viscious. My opinion regarding how things went wrong is this. Some members who became popular, got punch drunk with power. The board became like an election, or a war. There was zero tolerance for anyone who stated an opinion that didnt support the self elected mafia bosses. That doesnt leave too much room for roaming freely in and out of threads. There are so many topics that could be discussed. Fun is fine. This is supposed to be fun. Fear really shouldnt have any place here. This nonsence with continually discussing posters called " newbies" really gets on my nerves. For crying out loud this is a public board. Anyone who discovers it and wants to contribute has the right to do so. Without being ridiculed, humiliataed, or chased away. Also on the ocassion that someone came along who was mean , the strong supporters would QUIETLY ban together.... ignore the irritant, and eventually they just left. We used to stick up for each other.

[spot]

Lulu2;541587 wrote: Yes, we do. People whose egos are so large they feel the need to display their verbal acuity or their viciousness in public, to the dismay of the rest of us. OR--the ones who appear cute and cuddly in one thread and viperous in another, depending on whom they like at the moment.

Really, it's all about "LOOK AT ME," isn't it? Instead of positive contributions (or simply silence,) it's about causing a fuss.....rather like a two-year-old, who considers negative attention worthwhile, because people are looking at him.

This kind of behavior is fine, if the focus of the forum IS flaming/calling out/multi-syllable insults.

But the Garden's rules don't support this. It's certainly not what I signed on for..and I'll bet that's true for the majority, too.


Good Lord, Lulu, you do spout some unwarrantably pious claptrap when you get started. You're the same Lulu who posted "Do you want to clean up all the posts with names?", remember. This entire week at ForumGarden has been packed with attempts to start a fight, the only reason it's not happened is that reasonable people are refusing to bite the bait each time. What you can't do is to do what you're doing while complaining that it's other people doing it and not you.

I've been mulling, since Pinky raised this thread, wondering what worries me (if anything) about the site's tendencies. It's quite true that the feel has changed, though I only joined after the place had matured into a complex mix of people so I missed a lot of the growth-phase.

At the moment it's worryingly one-sided in several areas. It's had times when both nationalist/patriotic and internationalist views have been represented in long-standing detailed discussions, times when literalist christianity has held the floor talking with more liberal representatives of the faith, but the balance seems to have been lost. We had the MC walk-out, the Death Of Jives By A Thousand Cuts, the Recruitment Raid, the Unsightly Extirpation, and the two pointless but unavoidable Self-Immolations. Other than those singular events, the damage has been done by people walking away having taken affront and deciding their time was too valuable for them to work matters out rationally over a prolonged period.

So, yes, there's a change of tone. Consistent serious discussion had become more difficult to sustain. I have my hopes that it'll pick up now that there's less sniping.

[Lulu2]

"Good Lord, Lulu, you do spout some unwarrantably pious claptrap when you get started. You're the same Lulu who posted "Do you want to clean up all the posts with names?", remember. This entire week at ForumGarden has been packed with attempts to start a fight, the only reason it's not happened is that reasonable people are refusing to bite the bait each time. What you can't do is to do what you're doing while complaining that it's other people doing it and not you."



++++++++++++++++ Although I didn't imagine you'd feel so free to make my point for me, Spot...I see that you've done it. I've no desire whatsoever to start a fight. I'm merely expressing my ideas here. As are you.

[spot]

Lulu2;541644 wrote: Although I didn't imagine you'd feel so free to make my point for me, Spot...I see that you've done it. I've no desire whatsoever to start a fight. I'm merely expressing my ideas here. As are you.Your problem, Lulu, is that people get to read all of what you're writing in the thread, not just your latest paragraph. Skipping back a few posts makes it quite clear what you're doing, and to whom. Most people will be able to work out why as well.

[Lulu2]

Spot, why don't you do us all a favor and stop proving that you can't allow a thread to go on without making something personal of it?

You have NO IDEA what I'm thinking when I write my honest opinion. People who know me know I'm damned honest and don't beat around any figurative bush. If I wanted to insult you personally, I'd do it.

This isn't ABOUT you, Spot, and I won't allow you to turn it into a spat.

In the interests of allowing Pinky's thread to go on undisrupted, I'll agree to ignore you and you can agree to ignore me, ok?

[Bill Sikes]

Lulu2;541658 wrote: Spot, why don't you do us all a favor


Please don't use the inclusive "us" when you post *your* opinion.

[Bill Sikes]

Pinky;541662 wrote: Jeez, first time I bother looking in and I find my thread- which was purely meant to be about how FG has changed for those members who remember how it supposedly was to explain what's so different - not turn into another bloody boring having a dig at each other type thing.

I was pretty impresssed that up until now, most people having stayed with the topic and had their say in a respectful manner, but if it's just going to turn into yet another bashing thread then I seriously regret asking the original question at all if people can't control themselves.

Now sort it out or shift it elsewhere.

As for me, I shall be elsewhere for a while too.


Yes, yes and maybe, oi! You're off up to the pub., aren't you!

[koan]

There seems to be this acceptance of spot's name being turned into "some people on this" forum. And apparently that is not calling him out. But the inclusion of descriptions such as "multi-syllable" make it entirely obvious. There is also this recurring insistence that rules are not being followed and a companion insistence that FG has moderators with the ability to control forum content. It is this perpetual whine that echoes throughout many of the threads on the current board. That it took until about post 80 for that to come out here was rather restrained.

FG is not different. The whining is coming from people who didn't like some recent decisions made by admin and so try to make it appear that the rules aren't being applied consistently.

[DesignerGal]

koan;541679 wrote: There seems to be this acceptance of spot's name being turned into "some people on this" forum. And apparently that is not calling him out. But the inclusion of descriptions such as "multi-syllable" make it entirely obvious. There is also this recurring insistence that rules are not being followed and a companion insistence that FG has moderators with the ability to control forum content. It is this perpetual whine that echoes throughout many of the threads on the current board. That it took until about post 80 for that to come out here was rather restrained.

FG is not different. The whining is coming from people who didn't like some recent decisions made by admin and so try to make it appear that the rules aren't being applied consistently.


Shocker.

[Lulu2]

You two are trying to make it personal. I am not. You two are trying to excuse yourselves by making claims about what's motivating me. You're wrong.

What you are doing is proving the point about people being seemingly unable to resist making personal attacks on people with whom they disagree.

Pity.

I'm gone.

[devist8me]

Lulu2;541562 wrote: Let me offer another possibility about the "don't let it fester/get it off your chest" idea. There are members at FG who only show up when someone's in a war. Some people ONLY post to certain members when they sense that member is under attack. They seem to thrive on public conflict.

Many others do not.

I think we should ask ourselves just WHY it is that we let things "fester," and WHY it is that we need to "get it off our chest."

If I don't enjoy someone's posts, I'll leave them alone. There doesn't seem to be much use in having a flame war, particularly when you believe the person is secretly AVID to start spewing bile and venom.

IMHO...people who live for "calling out" others should probably keep their memberships in R-R current and spare the rest of us their public displays.


Lulu2;541587 wrote: Yes, we do. People whose egos are so large they feel the need to display their verbal acuity or their viciousness in public, to the dismay of the rest of us. OR--the ones who appear cute and cuddly in one thread and viperous in another, depending on whom they like at the moment.

Really, it's all about "LOOK AT ME," isn't it? Instead of positive contributions (or simply silence,) it's about causing a fuss.....rather like a two-year-old, who considers negative attention worthwhile, because people are looking at him.

This kind of behavior is fine, if the focus of the forum IS flaming/calling out/multi-syllable insults.

But the Garden's rules don't support this. It's certainly not what I signed on for..and I'll bet that's true for the majority, too.


You've shown me the light. Obviously a muck section would do this place no good. Kudos. :rolleyes:

[DesignerGal]

It should have been left between Lulu and Spot if he just HAD to make it personal. Koan, you just proved the theory about gangs jumping into disagreements between others.

[devist8me]

DesignerGal;541689 wrote: It should have been left between Lulu and Spot if he just HAD to make it personal. Koan, you just proved the theory about gangs jumping into disagreements between others.


No, what this shows is that if you had a muck section, lulu and spot could of said what was on their mind (get it off their chest)with or without interference, depending on how it was set up. Instead, it was in a perfectly good thread (no offense to either one meant).

Pinky, you always make good threads. :-6

[minks]

weeder;541613 wrote: One of Minks observations was very true. In the beginning, we all wanted to impress each other. We put our best foot forward, and with carefully chosen words, we created on line personalities. I remember being chided, or kidded, about something foolish I may have expressed. But it was never cruel, and never viscious. My opinion regarding how things went wrong is this. Some members who became popular, got punch drunk with power. The board became like an election, or a war. There was zero tolerance for anyone who stated an opinion that didnt support the self elected mafia bosses. That doesnt leave too much room for roaming freely in and out of threads. There are so many topics that could be discussed. Fun is fine. This is supposed to be fun. Fear really shouldnt have any place here. This nonsence with continually discussing posters called " newbies" really gets on my nerves. For crying out loud this is a public board. Anyone who discovers it and wants to contribute has the right to do so. Without being ridiculed, humiliataed, or chased away. Also on the ocassion that someone came along who was mean , the strong supporters would QUIETLY ban together.... ignore the irritant, and eventually they just left. We used to stick up for each other.


if I could expand a tad on this.....

when we see threads about who would you choose for this that and the other thing these encourage a popularity contest.... it makes people act differently too.

Yes it should be in fun, the intent should be fun when someone posts as well those reading should see it as fun, and not a hit against anyone personally unless

fingers are pointed directly.

[Lulu2]

It should be possible for people to honestly express an opinion without being attacked personally. If someone can't read another person's post without taking things personally and attacking the author, perhaps they should ignore that person's post. THAT is what should've happened here.

[minks]

DesignerGal;541689 wrote: It should have been left between Lulu and Spot if he just HAD to make it personal. Koan, you just proved the theory about gangs jumping into disagreements between others.


Ummm I don't mean to um create mass mucking here but DG hunny you are doing just what you are blaming Koan of....

And I think it's interesting from the almighty Mink's point of view yet again... go on all of you run back to your leaders and spread the word....

A thread fills up with the same people time and time again, and ya know what.....

Many people post the fun stuff, many people vanish and post in other forums, many people jump into PM's daily....

But when a thread heats up "hale hale the gangs all here".

The personal attacks fly and it never gets solved lets show a raise of hands.... who all here dislikes somebody on FG.....

See I knew it.... it happens......

I am siding again with Devi on this and we need to have a donnybrook so this can all END! Get it out once and for all and then maybe we can move forward... we just bring this stuff forward way to many times.....

Sure I am guilty of coming into these disturbances as well... I like to think my cause is the general integrity of the forum

DG I honestly am not picking on you ok... just pointing out an example and many of us here are guilty of it....

Lulu, no I don't think you are right about the "its me, all me look at me" ideal

We all have our own threads for that.

[minks]

Lulu2;541699 wrote: It should be possible for people to honestly express an opinion without being attacked personally. If someone can't read another person's post without taking things personally and attacking the author, perhaps they should ignore that person's post. THAT is what should've happened here.


yes perhaps so, however that in the past has not worked, it has come to calling people out hasn't it.

And I don't think that can be erased. So why not go have a yell and kick and slap fight in an area and leave it there, it may prevent tainted threads more.

Its a thought.

[Lulu2]

Minx, if you don't agree...that's just fine! You didn't jump in and bomb me with negative words because we're adults! Disagreement is healthy when it's respectful and impersonal. As far as I know, disagreement is still allowed here, right?

[DesignerGal]

minks;541704 wrote: Ummm I don't mean to um create mass mucking here but DG hunny you are doing just what you are blaming Koan of....

And I think it's interesting from the almighty Mink's point of view yet again... go on all of you run back to your leaders and spread the word....

A thread fills up with the same people time and time again, and ya know what.....

Many people post the fun stuff, many people vanish and post in other forums, many people jump into PM's daily....

But when a thread heats up "hale hale the gangs all here".

The personal attacks fly and it never gets solved lets show a raise of hands.... who all here dislikes somebody on FG.....

See I knew it.... it happens......

I am siding again with Devi on this and we need to have a donnybrook so this can all END! Get it out once and for all and then maybe we can move forward... we just bring this stuff forward way to many times.....

Sure I am guilty of coming into these disturbances as well... I like to think my cause is the general integrity of the forum

DG I honestly am not picking on you ok... just pointing out an example and many of us here are guilty of it....

Lulu, no I don't think you are right about the "its me, all me look at me" ideal

We all have our own threads for that.


DO you honestly think I am going to sit here while koan and spot pick a fight with her? The only reason I came back here was so she wouldnt get get double-teamed. Sorry, Lulu is my friend and that is exactly why I did it.