And here's another thing--(she's on a roll!) I think we should institute another DRAFT! Every single young person owes this government a year....whether it's a year in forest service or building schools in Appalachia or working on artificial reefs or cleaning swamps in the Everglades. You get the idea.
After that year, they get credits toward upper education.
Eat your vegetables
Eat your vegetables
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Eat your vegetables
She's got good stuff there. But if Obama keeps going like he is, he will be silenced. The hard way.
Things have just gone too far.
I fear there is no turning back.
Things have just gone too far.
I fear there is no turning back.
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
Lulu2;496954 wrote: We need some "newbies" in politics. I have enormous hopes for Barack Obama. He's new and clean and smart. I'd like to see him sponsor some groups to oversee the political process. How to do that? I don't know--but I believe it could be done by someone without "obligations."
What I'd like to see is someone like him sponsor legislation to make voting MANDATORY! Like the Australian system...it'd require that you vote or you pay a fine.How about a small tax deduction for those who vote, instead. Serves the same purpose, but is incentive rather than punishment.
Lulu2 wrote: Secondly, we'd make CIVICS mandatory to graduate in US schools. (See recent news on Richard Dreyfuss's "push." It's a fine idea.)I was surprised to find out it wasn't.
Lulu2 wrote: Thirdly, I'd like to see the government undertake a series of public service announcements/films to really educate us in a way many of us were not....we have NO IDEA these days how government is run. It'd be good if we did. Political Rock? Better than the war against drugs, for sure.
Lulu2 wrote: Finally, even though NO HUMAN SYSTEM WILL EVER BE PERFECT, we all need to volunteer to support our systems in any way we can. Anyone retired can tutor children in a Head Start program....or volunteer at a child care facility....or pick up trash or clean a beach or do SOMETHING to make this a better country.Idealistic, but definitely do-able.
Lulu2 wrote: (Shall I step off the box now, Accountable?)
Hell no! :wah:
What I'd like to see is someone like him sponsor legislation to make voting MANDATORY! Like the Australian system...it'd require that you vote or you pay a fine.How about a small tax deduction for those who vote, instead. Serves the same purpose, but is incentive rather than punishment.
Lulu2 wrote: Secondly, we'd make CIVICS mandatory to graduate in US schools. (See recent news on Richard Dreyfuss's "push." It's a fine idea.)I was surprised to find out it wasn't.
Lulu2 wrote: Thirdly, I'd like to see the government undertake a series of public service announcements/films to really educate us in a way many of us were not....we have NO IDEA these days how government is run. It'd be good if we did. Political Rock? Better than the war against drugs, for sure.
Lulu2 wrote: Finally, even though NO HUMAN SYSTEM WILL EVER BE PERFECT, we all need to volunteer to support our systems in any way we can. Anyone retired can tutor children in a Head Start program....or volunteer at a child care facility....or pick up trash or clean a beach or do SOMETHING to make this a better country.Idealistic, but definitely do-able.
Lulu2 wrote: (Shall I step off the box now, Accountable?)
Hell no! :wah:
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
JacksDad;496956 wrote: C'mon Acct.
Maybe I'll just click my heels together and say, "There's no place like 1961."
Look what happened in '61. Why can't it happen again? I believe the ideal is a worthy goal.
Maybe I'll just click my heels together and say, "There's no place like 1961."
Look what happened in '61. Why can't it happen again? I believe the ideal is a worthy goal.
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
Lulu2;496960 wrote: And here's another thing--(she's on a roll!) I think we should institute another DRAFT! Every single young person owes this government a year....whether it's a year in forest service or building schools in Appalachia or working on artificial reefs or cleaning swamps in the Everglades. You get the idea.
After that year, they get credits toward upper education.
Nope. Can't support that one. Sorry.
After that year, they get credits toward upper education.
Nope. Can't support that one. Sorry.
Eat your vegetables
I'm impressed, Accountable! The tax incentive is a great idea...as long as people actually PAY taxes! (Many, as you well know, don't.)
How about an incentive for Social Security benefits to volunteers?
Here in California, it's a graduation requirement for students to do some kind of public service. Is that true everywhere? We have student volunteers at the zoo....we should have them everywhere.
How about an incentive for Social Security benefits to volunteers?
Here in California, it's a graduation requirement for students to do some kind of public service. Is that true everywhere? We have student volunteers at the zoo....we should have them everywhere.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
JacksDad;496962 wrote: She's got good stuff there. But if Obama keeps going like he is, he will be silenced. The hard way.
Things have just gone too far.
I fear there is no turning back.
I'm not sure what you mean. Ya think Hillary or Jesse Jackson will put a contract on his head?
Things have just gone too far.
I fear there is no turning back.
I'm not sure what you mean. Ya think Hillary or Jesse Jackson will put a contract on his head?
Eat your vegetables
WHOA! Why not require every young person to do some form of public service in exchange for educational credits?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Eat your vegetables
Hate to sound like a conspirisist but I don't think anyone in the government that we see or read about is really in charge.
Here's to '61.
Here's to '61.
Eat your vegetables
OK---then who IS in charge?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
Lulu2;496989 wrote: WHOA! Why not require every young person to do some form of public service in exchange for educational credits?
Ya want to incorporate public service into the curriculum? That's a fine idea. Take the shop class to some old lady's house to do a couple carpentry projects. Have the Small Business Association team with the techie classes to help small businesses do their books. Things like that would be wonderful.
I don't agree with mandatory volunteerism, though.
Ya want to incorporate public service into the curriculum? That's a fine idea. Take the shop class to some old lady's house to do a couple carpentry projects. Have the Small Business Association team with the techie classes to help small businesses do their books. Things like that would be wonderful.
I don't agree with mandatory volunteerism, though.
Eat your vegetables
Couldn't tell ya.
But we all agree it needs to be us.
It's not the vegetables so much as the vitamins.
But we all agree it needs to be us.
It's not the vegetables so much as the vitamins.
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
JacksDad;497008 wrote: Couldn't tell ya.
But we all agree it needs to be us.
It's not the vegetables so much as the vitamins.
:D clever!
But we all agree it needs to be us.
It's not the vegetables so much as the vitamins.
:D clever!
Eat your vegetables
"I don't agree with mandatory volunteerism, though."
Why not? They live here...get a free education...get to vote...why not give a year in a NON-MILITARY way?
I see that as a fine way to learn some skills, get the equivalent of the European "gap year" and return to college with more skills/self-knowledge than they left high-school.
Why not? They live here...get a free education...get to vote...why not give a year in a NON-MILITARY way?
I see that as a fine way to learn some skills, get the equivalent of the European "gap year" and return to college with more skills/self-knowledge than they left high-school.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
Lulu2;497011 wrote: "I don't agree with mandatory volunteerism, though."
Why not? They live here...get a free education...get to vote...why not give a year in a NON-MILITARY way?
I see that as a fine way to learn some skills, get the equivalent of the European "gap year" and return to college with more skills/self-knowledge than they left high-school.
Fine, on a volunteer basis. Use whatever incentive or propaganda you like, but not madatory service. Madatory service only gets lazy kids sitting around counting the days.
Why not? They live here...get a free education...get to vote...why not give a year in a NON-MILITARY way?
I see that as a fine way to learn some skills, get the equivalent of the European "gap year" and return to college with more skills/self-knowledge than they left high-school.
Fine, on a volunteer basis. Use whatever incentive or propaganda you like, but not madatory service. Madatory service only gets lazy kids sitting around counting the days.
Eat your vegetables
And mandatory is only MORE government intervention.
Eat your vegetables
OKAYYYY....those who volunteer and do a good job get extra credit in college admissions.
A step ahead.
And--those who don't....get NO preferential treatment based on race/gender.
(If I ran the world.....)
A step ahead.
And--those who don't....get NO preferential treatment based on race/gender.
(If I ran the world.....)
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Eat your vegetables
dat works.
Doesn't the military already do that?
Doesn't the military already do that?
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RedGlitter
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Eat your vegetables
Lulu2;496954 wrote:
What I'd like to see is someone like him sponsor legislation to make voting MANDATORY! Like the Australian system...it'd require that you vote or you pay a fine.
Nope, can't go for this one, Lulu. Take a look at some of who's shopping in your local Walmart.
Seriously, what about apathetic, uneducated or crackpot people wielding a countable vote? Do you want these people to actually contribute? I sure don't. I want someone who studies the issues, watches the candidates and takes their voting at least as seriously as I do. We don't need to punish anyone for not voting. If they don't think enough of themselves to do it on their own and vte responsibly, then they've saved us a lot of trouble.
Secondly, we'd make CIVICS mandatory to graduate in US schools. (See recent news on Richard Dreyfuss's "push." It's a fine idea.)
Agreed. But first, please make sure ALL your teachers are worthy of teaching this.
Thirdly, I'd like to see the government undertake a series of public service announcements/films to really educate us in a way many of us were not....we have NO IDEA these days how government is run. It'd be good if we did.
Okay, this is like RJ Reynolds telling kids not to smoke. If you want to know how government is run, why would you ask the government? This implies that the government is a trustworthy, respectable entity and it is not. Get Ralph Nader or Joe Arpaio.
Finally, even though NO HUMAN SYSTEM WILL EVER BE PERFECT, we all need to volunteer to support our systems in any way we can. Anyone retired can tutor children in a Head Start program....or volunteer at a child care facility....or pick up trash or clean a beach or do SOMETHING to make this a better country.
I have been in the volunteer world off and on since I was 13. As a volunteer and as one who heads them. I've seen what you can get for "free." Not to insult everyone who volunteers because there are some fine people out there but it's been my experience that they are rarely qualified and few and far between. If we're making volunteerism mandatory then it should be for all- including middle agers and seniors. I don't cotton to the idea myself. I would prefer a happy volunteer who really wants to help rather than somebody who "has better things to do." Those are the worst.
Lulu2;496960 wrote: And here's another thing--(she's on a roll!) I think we should institute another DRAFT! Every single young person owes this government a year....whether it's a year in forest service or building schools in Appalachia or working on artificial reefs or cleaning swamps in the Everglades. You get the idea.
No way. It's still a free country and if someone doesn't want to be in the military (even if it's doing non-military type work) then they shouldn't be. I think it takes a certain kind of person to join and you won't find that material just anywhere. I certainly don't agree that every young person owes the government anything. They will grow up and pay taxes. That is enough.
After that year, they get credits toward upper education.
And if they opt not to further educate? Where do those credits go?
Lulu2;496986 wrote: I'm impressed, Accountable! The tax incentive is a great idea...as long as people actually PAY taxes! (Many, as you well know, don't.)
I can definitely buy this.
How about an incentive for Social Security benefits to volunteers?
Maybe but then would it be true volunteerism?
Here in California, it's a graduation requirement for students to do some kind of public service. Is that true everywhere? We have student volunteers at the zoo....we should have them everywhere.
The local high school has a community service program but I couldn't answer further than that. Several of the students have volunteered for my animal rescue and I would say out of 8 students, 2 were worth having. The rest were a waste of time. They thought working for animals would be easy.
What I'd like to see is someone like him sponsor legislation to make voting MANDATORY! Like the Australian system...it'd require that you vote or you pay a fine.
Nope, can't go for this one, Lulu. Take a look at some of who's shopping in your local Walmart.
Seriously, what about apathetic, uneducated or crackpot people wielding a countable vote? Do you want these people to actually contribute? I sure don't. I want someone who studies the issues, watches the candidates and takes their voting at least as seriously as I do. We don't need to punish anyone for not voting. If they don't think enough of themselves to do it on their own and vte responsibly, then they've saved us a lot of trouble.Secondly, we'd make CIVICS mandatory to graduate in US schools. (See recent news on Richard Dreyfuss's "push." It's a fine idea.)
Agreed. But first, please make sure ALL your teachers are worthy of teaching this.
Thirdly, I'd like to see the government undertake a series of public service announcements/films to really educate us in a way many of us were not....we have NO IDEA these days how government is run. It'd be good if we did.
Okay, this is like RJ Reynolds telling kids not to smoke. If you want to know how government is run, why would you ask the government? This implies that the government is a trustworthy, respectable entity and it is not. Get Ralph Nader or Joe Arpaio.
Finally, even though NO HUMAN SYSTEM WILL EVER BE PERFECT, we all need to volunteer to support our systems in any way we can. Anyone retired can tutor children in a Head Start program....or volunteer at a child care facility....or pick up trash or clean a beach or do SOMETHING to make this a better country.
I have been in the volunteer world off and on since I was 13. As a volunteer and as one who heads them. I've seen what you can get for "free." Not to insult everyone who volunteers because there are some fine people out there but it's been my experience that they are rarely qualified and few and far between. If we're making volunteerism mandatory then it should be for all- including middle agers and seniors. I don't cotton to the idea myself. I would prefer a happy volunteer who really wants to help rather than somebody who "has better things to do." Those are the worst.
Lulu2;496960 wrote: And here's another thing--(she's on a roll!) I think we should institute another DRAFT! Every single young person owes this government a year....whether it's a year in forest service or building schools in Appalachia or working on artificial reefs or cleaning swamps in the Everglades. You get the idea.
No way. It's still a free country and if someone doesn't want to be in the military (even if it's doing non-military type work) then they shouldn't be. I think it takes a certain kind of person to join and you won't find that material just anywhere. I certainly don't agree that every young person owes the government anything. They will grow up and pay taxes. That is enough.
After that year, they get credits toward upper education.
And if they opt not to further educate? Where do those credits go?
Lulu2;496986 wrote: I'm impressed, Accountable! The tax incentive is a great idea...as long as people actually PAY taxes! (Many, as you well know, don't.)
I can definitely buy this.
How about an incentive for Social Security benefits to volunteers?
Maybe but then would it be true volunteerism?
Here in California, it's a graduation requirement for students to do some kind of public service. Is that true everywhere? We have student volunteers at the zoo....we should have them everywhere.
The local high school has a community service program but I couldn't answer further than that. Several of the students have volunteered for my animal rescue and I would say out of 8 students, 2 were worth having. The rest were a waste of time. They thought working for animals would be easy.
Eat your vegetables
All right, Glitter....having shot down my ideas....what are your suggestions?
As I see it, it's easy to dismiss ideas without trying to build on them. You have to look at the END RESULT rather than just look at the restraints along the way. Not to say you don't anticipate them...but if you only see the restraints, you'll never see the end goal.
This is one of the many things wrong with our system at the moment. Everyone just dismisses creative ideas because they see the immediate restraint, rather than seeing the ultimate benefit. We don't have enough long-term visionaries. We have petty bureaucrats, eager to hold on to their areas of influence.
It's so easy to say "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" What we need are people who say "WE CAN DO THAT IF WE DO THIS FIRST!"
As I see it, it's easy to dismiss ideas without trying to build on them. You have to look at the END RESULT rather than just look at the restraints along the way. Not to say you don't anticipate them...but if you only see the restraints, you'll never see the end goal.
This is one of the many things wrong with our system at the moment. Everyone just dismisses creative ideas because they see the immediate restraint, rather than seeing the ultimate benefit. We don't have enough long-term visionaries. We have petty bureaucrats, eager to hold on to their areas of influence.
It's so easy to say "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" What we need are people who say "WE CAN DO THAT IF WE DO THIS FIRST!"
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
JacksDad;497040 wrote: dat works.
Doesn't the military already do that?
Yes. Wouldn't it be cool to do that for a public service-type organization as well? FEMA has plenty of work for those willing to do it, for instance. Of course, I'd prefer to see somebody like the Red Cross running the program.
Doesn't the military already do that?
Yes. Wouldn't it be cool to do that for a public service-type organization as well? FEMA has plenty of work for those willing to do it, for instance. Of course, I'd prefer to see somebody like the Red Cross running the program.
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Accountable
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Eat your vegetables
Here's how the gov't supports volunteerism.
http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/
http://www.citizencorps.gov/
Whatha think?
http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/
http://www.citizencorps.gov/
Whatha think?
Eat your vegetables
Lulu2;496859 wrote: Accountable, if we sat down to design a new society, we'd undoubtedly use the same ethics that all humans (regardless of religion) have recognized as useful and appropriate...don't kill, don't steal, don't lie and don't treat your neighbor in ways you wouldn't want to be treated. This has NOTHING to do with religion, does it? It's common sense.
Morality and it's basic premises has been coming up alot on this forum for the last few weeks. My personal view of morality is that of great historic in my opinion. I believe morality has been formed from that of the misfortune in hardened times, whether it has been from the harsh fact of life itself, or quite simply being trespassed upon by that of their fellow human beings...I believe it's grown along with the population, but it's basic foundation is still in tact in my opinion. Granted, their are alot more things in today's society that people covet alot more than if they had lived in the past, but hardly nothing to worry about.
But what I've also seen is that along with the prosperity, and the innovative things people have grown to covet has been protected by that of the strongest group of people, and I believe alot of the laws that has surfaced as a result has helped heighten societies obligation to not harm others in anyway. And what I mean by that, is a government, in association with it's own expenditures enabling them to keep their power, inevitably needs it's own people to be healthy and prosperous as taxes has always been a governments breadbasket. And ultimately, I think such law within society has dove into the category of sheer convenience, as opposed to actual morale obligation, and that is evident in a continuous increase in crimes being committed upon any let up of criminal policy. My point being, that societies possessions have enforced law, which in turn makes it extremely inconvenient for anyone to act without a care as to consequences. To credit common sense with a simple percentage of crimes not being committed gives more credit to those who desire to be imorale more than they deserve.
Lulu2;496859 wrote:
Despite what religious leaders will tell you (they DO have a strong agenda, after all,) society could get by very well without a religious base. Have you ever read the concepts of Secular Humanism? Start here: http://secularhumanism.org/
I can agree for sure. While I don't believe religion should ever be controlled, but that's like a certain ethnic group asking another certain ethnic group what its like to be a different ethnic group(if there is such a thing).
Lulu2;496859 wrote: ...but I've asked many Christian friends to quietly examine their hearts and ask this question: "If I could convert the entire world to my faith, would I do it?" The answer, of course, is yes. Wonder what the nice pagans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, etc, would think about that?
To speak personally, I would never wish to impose anything I believe into anyone else, unless it was meant to insure the safety and well being of another. But that goes into personal opinion, but as I said before, A true Christian wouldn't impose their religion on to anyone else, if they did, then they aren't a true Christian, they should lead by example and if the religion is truly the light that should be seen as portrayed they will follow...and I believe it has...in a sense.
Lulu2;496859 wrote:
The only positive thing I can find about it has been expressed here today....it can comfort those who can't find comfort anywhere else.
self respect is indeed a good attribute to have...Much in the same some may accuse others for being wrong in not being religious, there are also those who assume that those being religious cannot help but to lie to themselves just to feel good, and it's a major miscalculation to say the least.
Lulu2;496859 wrote: Can society thrive without religion?
Maybe...but it would be one dark depressing society in my opinion...:wah:
Morality and it's basic premises has been coming up alot on this forum for the last few weeks. My personal view of morality is that of great historic in my opinion. I believe morality has been formed from that of the misfortune in hardened times, whether it has been from the harsh fact of life itself, or quite simply being trespassed upon by that of their fellow human beings...I believe it's grown along with the population, but it's basic foundation is still in tact in my opinion. Granted, their are alot more things in today's society that people covet alot more than if they had lived in the past, but hardly nothing to worry about.
But what I've also seen is that along with the prosperity, and the innovative things people have grown to covet has been protected by that of the strongest group of people, and I believe alot of the laws that has surfaced as a result has helped heighten societies obligation to not harm others in anyway. And what I mean by that, is a government, in association with it's own expenditures enabling them to keep their power, inevitably needs it's own people to be healthy and prosperous as taxes has always been a governments breadbasket. And ultimately, I think such law within society has dove into the category of sheer convenience, as opposed to actual morale obligation, and that is evident in a continuous increase in crimes being committed upon any let up of criminal policy. My point being, that societies possessions have enforced law, which in turn makes it extremely inconvenient for anyone to act without a care as to consequences. To credit common sense with a simple percentage of crimes not being committed gives more credit to those who desire to be imorale more than they deserve.
Lulu2;496859 wrote:
Despite what religious leaders will tell you (they DO have a strong agenda, after all,) society could get by very well without a religious base. Have you ever read the concepts of Secular Humanism? Start here: http://secularhumanism.org/
I can agree for sure. While I don't believe religion should ever be controlled, but that's like a certain ethnic group asking another certain ethnic group what its like to be a different ethnic group(if there is such a thing).
Lulu2;496859 wrote: ...but I've asked many Christian friends to quietly examine their hearts and ask this question: "If I could convert the entire world to my faith, would I do it?" The answer, of course, is yes. Wonder what the nice pagans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, etc, would think about that?
To speak personally, I would never wish to impose anything I believe into anyone else, unless it was meant to insure the safety and well being of another. But that goes into personal opinion, but as I said before, A true Christian wouldn't impose their religion on to anyone else, if they did, then they aren't a true Christian, they should lead by example and if the religion is truly the light that should be seen as portrayed they will follow...and I believe it has...in a sense.
Lulu2;496859 wrote:
The only positive thing I can find about it has been expressed here today....it can comfort those who can't find comfort anywhere else.
self respect is indeed a good attribute to have...Much in the same some may accuse others for being wrong in not being religious, there are also those who assume that those being religious cannot help but to lie to themselves just to feel good, and it's a major miscalculation to say the least.
Lulu2;496859 wrote: Can society thrive without religion?
Maybe...but it would be one dark depressing society in my opinion...:wah:
Eat your vegetables
K.Snyder;497201 wrote:
To speak personally, I would never wish to impose anything I believe into anyone else, unless it was meant to insure the safety and well being of another. But that goes into personal opinion, but as I said before, A true Christian wouldn't impose their religion on to anyone else, if they did, then they aren't a true Christian, they should lead by example and if the religion is truly the light that should be seen as portrayed they will follow...and I believe it has...in a sense.
:yh_clap :yh_clap I have to agree with this!
To speak personally, I would never wish to impose anything I believe into anyone else, unless it was meant to insure the safety and well being of another. But that goes into personal opinion, but as I said before, A true Christian wouldn't impose their religion on to anyone else, if they did, then they aren't a true Christian, they should lead by example and if the religion is truly the light that should be seen as portrayed they will follow...and I believe it has...in a sense.
:yh_clap :yh_clap I have to agree with this!
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son