The Presidential Election of 2024

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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

spot wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:13 pm
LarsMac wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 pm
spot wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:27 am
LarsMac wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:06 am Ron Desantis is the current governor of Florida, and is probably the most realistic choice on that list from the Rethuglican side.
A sad thought, really since he is basically Donald Trump without all the political baggage from Jan 6 2021.
I'm straining my power of recall but wasn't the Governor of Florida a chap called Crist or Christ? And wasn't his personal life rather more baggage than most politicians could survive, with unacknowledged descendants strewing the more obscure Floridian byways?

I was on the Governor of Florida's mailing list for a while but my memory is not all it was.
Oh, yes, Charlie Crist.
I was long out of the sate by then, but, Charlie Crist got elected to the seat and spent much of his time as Governor trying to get elected to the US Senate. The State Republicans summarily dumped him and moved on with Rick Scott, a delightfully Cadaverous fellow.
I never quite know when my mind is inventing things from scratch, but I have it that he - Governor Crist - was or became a used car salesman. Or he had a concession to sell cars. I find it difficult to believe despite it being me that's telling it.
No, he's been pretty much a career politician. Not that there is a lot of difference between one or the other. I guess he is thinking of running for DeDantis' job this year. He was a Republican last time he held the Governor's seat. Now he's going to try as a Dem.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

LarsMac wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:06 pm
spot wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:13 pm I never quite know when my mind is inventing things from scratch, but I have it that he - Governor Crist - was or became a used car salesman. Or he had a concession to sell cars. I find it difficult to believe despite it being me that's telling it.
No, he's been pretty much a career politician. Not that there is a lot of difference between one or the other. I guess he is thinking of running for DeDantis' job this year. He was a Republican last time he held the Governor's seat. Now he's going to try as a Dem.
Okay, I tracked it down by searching "which politician owns a florida car dealership"
Three car dealerships owned by U.S. Rep. Vern Buchanan received as much as $7 million from a federal program intended to help small businesses keep people on their payroll during the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politi ... virus-aid/
So, Not Mr Crist. I mentioned Vern once five years back at viewtopic.php?f=36&t=64760&p=1506582&hi ... n#p1506582 which is why he was at the back of my mind.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Kind of on the same note, A friend in Florida sent me this, today:

Florida Falls From First Place for Government Corruption
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

Well, the Primary election for this year's "Mid-term elections" went fairly smoothly.
This article is relevant for the fact that our state Republicans seems to have sloughed off the "Trumper wannabes" if only because the Dems appear to have thrown a lot of weight behind them.

Dem meddling in GOP primaries backfires; moderates win in key races I love the sub-title" Even Nancy Pelosi couldn't get a right-wing extremist nominated"

There is the one rep I would like to see being sent back home, that seems to have carried her district, though.
While the major state races went to more mainstream Republican candidates, some areas of Colorado stubbornly remained in the World of Trump. In the Third Congressional District, gun-slinging Rep. Lauren Boebert, who has been accused of conducting “reconnaissance tours” of the U.S. Capitol the day before the Jan. 6 riot, trounced state Sen. Don Coram, a moderate Republican highly respected by Capitol colleagues on both sides of the aisle, by a margin of two-to-one. A New York Times breakdown of county results in that district shows Coram eked out wins in only seven of the 27 counties, and failed to carry his home Montrose County.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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I didn't know Dems were registering as Reps in such large numbers, to throw the selection process.

I'm not particularly impressed with this take-it-or-leave-it two-party system. It's very like a one-party system, if neither party is remotely acceptable.

As for Governor DeSantis, I note this from Sunday's Guardian...
Seemingly aware of his growing political vulnerability, Trump is reportedly considering announcing another run for the White House sooner than expected. He has teased the prospect at recent rallies and, according to the New York Times, told advisers that he might declare his candidacy on social media without warning even his own team.

Such a move could have the added impetus of heading off a new star rising in the Republican firmament. Ron DeSantis, the pugnacious governor of Florida, is widely seen as his heir apparent and biggest rival for the Republican presidential nomination in two years’ time. At 43, DeSantis is more than three decades younger and is free of Trump’s January 6 toxicity.

Speaking from Tallahassee, longtime Republican strategist Rick Wilson of Florida said: “I’ve picked up the same rumors that everybody else is hearing that Ron DeSantis’s people are practically picking out curtains in the White House after Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -candidate
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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spot wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:09 am I didn't know Dems were registering as Reps in such large numbers, to throw the selection process.

I'm not particularly impressed with this take-it-or-leave-it two-party system. It's very like a one-party system, if neither party is remotely acceptable.

As for Governor DeSantis, I note this from Sunday's Guardian...
Seemingly aware of his growing political vulnerability, Trump is reportedly considering announcing another run for the White House sooner than expected. He has teased the prospect at recent rallies and, according to the New York Times, told advisers that he might declare his candidacy on social media without warning even his own team.

Such a move could have the added impetus of heading off a new star rising in the Republican firmament. Ron DeSantis, the pugnacious governor of Florida, is widely seen as his heir apparent and biggest rival for the Republican presidential nomination in two years’ time. At 43, DeSantis is more than three decades younger and is free of Trump’s January 6 toxicity.

Speaking from Tallahassee, longtime Republican strategist Rick Wilson of Florida said: “I’ve picked up the same rumors that everybody else is hearing that Ron DeSantis’s people are practically picking out curtains in the White House after Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -candidate
Several of our pro-T neighbors have been talking about DeSantis, already. I think they are waking up to the fact that Trump is simply in it for the money..
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Couple of updates. DeSantis is on the ballot for Florida Governor, this year. So if he gets the job, again, campaigning for the Pres will take up much of his time and attention for the first two years of his job. I hope the local Rethuglicans keep that in mind.

As for Trump, only a few of his most loyal followers seem to have gone on record as agreeing with hid notion that the election was rigged.
Most of his cronies are saying that they tried to tell him that getting that vote recount was not going to get him anywhere.
His only hope for staying out of jail seems be based on him being able to run in '24 and get elected, and then pardoning himself.

As absurd as that may sound, looking at some of the state Rethublican party platforms, it seems they are determined to put him back in the WH in '24.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/18 ... on-cornyn/
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Is "House reconvenes for fourth speaker vote after McCarthy’s failure to secure majority" related to who will run as the Republican nominee for President in 2024?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

Hmm.

"House without a speaker as McCarthy fails to secure majority in six rounds of voting".

Intransigence rules, clearly.

Perhaps they could up the ante and the leed candidate who fails each vote resigns his seat. That would solve it.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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spot wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:05 pm Hmm.

"House without a speaker as McCarthy fails to secure majority in six rounds of voting".

Intransigence rules, clearly.

Perhaps they could up the ante and the leed candidate who fails each vote resigns his seat. That would solve it.
I rather like that idea.
I'll write my senator.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Though the problem is that the folks who are refusing to vote for Mr McCarthey are Trumpy nitwits.
I'm not sure that having someone for whom they approve getting the job will be an improvement.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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If Matthew Louis Gaetz II just voted twice for President Trump to become Speaker of the House, does that mean anyone at all can be elected to the position? I'm wondering what the bare qualification has to be.

Here's the words from the Constitution - "The House of Representatives shall chuse (sic) their Speaker and other Officers".

No minimum age limit, no nationality requirement.

Umm.

Well, Julian Assange. Obviously.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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spot wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:44 pm If Matthew Louis Gaetz II just voted twice for President Trump to become Speaker of the House, does that mean anyone at all can be elected to the position? I'm wondering what the bare qualification has to be.

Here's the words from the Constitution - "The House of Representatives shall chuse (sic) their Speaker and other Officers".

No minimum age limit, no nationality requirement.

Umm.

Well, Julian Assange. Obviously.
They can cast their vote for anyone they chose, but, only actual sitting members of the House who receive a majority of votes cast are qualified to take the gavel.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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A comment from a friend who was watching the "festivities"

"we found that out about 15 minutes later, after the session ended. Right after he gavelled out that session, Kevin McCarthy went out into the hallway and held an impromptu news conference, where he announced that he was grateful to the one man who was able to put the Republican conference together and vote him in as Speaker: Donald Trump.
Seriously. He was profuse in his thanks to Donald Trump for making this happen for him.
So now we see what this was. All of us were fooled. There was no fighting. There was no resistance. We just watched a four day long shadow puppet kabuki show designed to make it look like the only person who can lead the republican party, who can unify the republican party, is Donald Trump."
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Did I see that President Trump has announced his candidacy for 2024? I'm sure it happened. Last week maybe.

If America really wants to embarrass itself in front of the entire world then I suppose it could vote for someone that old.

Or for the even older President Biden.

Isn't it time the candidates were in their forties?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Well, so far, the Donald is the only one to actually pitch his hat in the ring.
The Democrats are expecting Joe to carry on, it seems.

The governor of Florida, Ron Desantis is making noise about running, as is Former VP, Mike Pence, who was kinda the "hero" if January 6. in a manner of speaking.

The only Democrats who have even showed an interest are older than Joe.

One person I would like to see show an interest in the job is Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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What we need is a questionnaire for all potential candidates. I'll think about it.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Okay, I have the essentials. I'm not convinced any other questions need appear.

Are God's chosen people white?

Will any of your enemies get to heaven?

Are the end times close?

Do you hope to be snatched away in the rapture?



How you think Mike Pence is going to pass that test I've no idea. The man is a fanatic.

I thought Tammy Duckworth was a country and western singer.

I'll offer you the Gen Z candidate Maxwell Frost who represents Florida's 10th congressional district, I quite like aspects such as 'Frost wants to "build toward a future without prison"'. It's not typical, you'll admit. It's high on my list of important policy positions.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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A recent poll of Dems seems to indicate that there is a lot of reluctance to support Joe going for a second term.
However, there is still few candidates lined up to take up the cause.

Probably some of that is "Loyalty to the Boss."
The Dems need to start getting ready for the 2024 election season before 2024 is actually here. Whoever it may be will likely get my vote, and the votes of a lot of independents. (I hope)
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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I notice that Nikki Haley has announced her run for the Republican nomination. Of all the Republican nominees I very much hope she gets selected, it will be a breath of fresh air in an election which will otherwise be an evening visit to an old folks sanctuary on men-only night.

Her announcement speech was splendid gung-ho American Exceptionalism just as one would expect, and sounded all the more laughable than it did twenty years ago. The notion gets more comic every year.
I’m a grateful American citizen who knows our best days are yet to come, if we unite and fight to save our country. I have devoted my life to this fight. And I’m just getting started. For a strong America, for a proud America, I am running for President of the United States of America

[...] I told the world that America would have the backs of our allies and for those who didn't have our backs, we were taking names

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/ip/dat ... segment/01

- what we used to call "the bigger they are, the harder they fall".
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Well, so far, I'm seeing no one on the Dem side lining up for the job that I feel any confidence in.
The only one on the right that I would find potentially capable is Liz Cheney, former Representative from Wyoming (And daughter of former VP, Dick Cheney.)

2025 might prove to be very interesting.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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I had thought there had been a measure of disapproval voiced against Ms Cheney among Republican circles over the last couple of years. I'm not sure she'd get the full enthusiastic backing one would look for if running for the Presidency.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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spot wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:24 am I had thought there had been a measure of disapproval voiced against Ms Cheney among Republican circles over the last couple of years. I'm not sure she'd get the full enthusiastic backing one would look for if running for the Presidency.
Well, the MAGAs hate her. She won't get any votes from them.
Wo, how well she does in the primary would give an indication on whether there is any hope at all for what has become the Republican Party.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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Trump wants as many people as possible to run against him in the Primaries.
The more Candidates there are the better it is for him as it splits the Opposition.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

The US is "going to hell", Donald Trump has said in a defiant address after pleading not guilty to falsifying business records to hide damaging information ahead of the 2016 election.

The former president was charged with 34 counts in a Manhattan court in New York on Tuesday.

These relate to a hush money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels, who says they had an adulterous affair.

Mr Trump is the first US president in history to face a criminal trial.

"The only crime that I have committed is to fearlessly defend our nation from those who seek to destroy it," the 76-year-old told supporters gathered at his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida after he appeared in court.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65186244


I've clearly been under a misapprehension these many years. I'd always thought it was idolators, persecutors of the needy and men that fornicate who go to hell, not nation states, though sadly I have yet to find a bible which actually includes the term pussy-grabber.

What I really want to see on roadside hoardings across the bible belt is photographs of Donald Trump failing to get through the eye of a needle.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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The MAGAs are now comparing Trump's indictments to the Crucifixion of Jesus.
‘Spiritual warfare’

“Jesus was arrested and murdered by the Roman government,” she said. “There have been many people throughout history that have been arrested and persecuted by radical corrupt governments, and it’s beginning today in New York City.”
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

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A current look at the folks planning on trying for the President's office in 2024

-
President Biden is the presumptive front-runner in the Democrat party, assuming he doesn't decide to retire.
-
Ron DeSantis, current Florida Governor was talking about running even as he was pursuing re-election to the Florida Governor's office. While he is now claiming to be more interested in being Governor, I suspect he is just putting off an announcement until closer to the primary season.
I've yet to see anyone for whom I would want to vote for the office.

-
Nikki Haley, Republican
Haley, 51, announced her presidential bid in a video released on Feb. 14, a day ahead of a formal kickoff on Feb. 15 in Charleston.

Haley, who also served as a U.S. ambassador to the U.N. in the Trump administration, is the first high-profile Republican to challenge Trump.
-
Vivek Ramaswamy, Republican
Ramaswamy, a 37-year-old multimillionaire entrepreneur who founded a major biotech company, announced on Feb. 21 that he is running for president as a Republican.
-
Steve Laffey, Republican
The former mayor of Cranston, Rhode Island, Steve Laffey announced his candidacy for president on Feb. 2.
-
Perry Johnson, Republican
A 75-year-old Michigan businessman, Johnson launched his presidential campaign for the 2024 Republican nomination amid the 2023 Conservative Political Action Conference that began on March 1.
-
Asa Hutchinson, Republican
Hutchinson, 72, announced he would run for president on April 2 during an interview on ABC's "This Week" but said an official launch would not take place until later in April in his home state.

"I am going to be running. And the reason is, I've traveled the country for six months, I hear people talk about the leadership of our country. I'm convinced that people want leaders that appeal to the best of America, and not simply appeal to our worst instincts," Hutchinson told "This Week" co-anchor Jonathan Karl.
-
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Democrat
Kennedy, 69, officially plans to announce his bid for the 2024 Democratic presidential nomination at the Boston Park Plaza in Boston on April 19.
(This guy's only got two claims to fame. 1, his daddy was a candidate for president once. and 2, he is an avid Anti-vaxer. )

On April 5, he filed Federal Election Commission paperwork to run in the 2024 Democratic primary under the campaign committee "Team Kennedy."
-
A look at potential presidential candidates
The list of other potential White House hopefuls includes Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu, South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott and former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, among others, as well as Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has played down questions about his ambitions even as sources have told ABC News he's privately indicated he'll launch a campaign in May or possibly June.
-
Mike Pence, former VP to Trump, continues to murmur about running for the office. Yeah, don't think he's actually going to make the cut.
The Trumpers consider him a traitor. (He coulda done the thing, but he chickened out.) The anti trumpers see him as spineless. (He could have stood up)
-
South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott
Scott, 57, announced on April 12 -- the anniversary of the start of the Civil War -- that he was launching a presidential exploratory committee, the same week he had stops scheduled in Iowa, New Hampshire, and his home state of South Carolina.


Marianne Williamson, Democrat
Williamson, 70, first wrote in an email to donors on Feb. 26 that would formally announce on March 4 that she is running for president as a Democrat, in a long shot primary challenge to Biden.

Williamson is a bestselling self-help book author who first ran for president in 2020 on a pacifist and progressive platform.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

There are a few overriding considerations.

One is "who can raise the finance". The Presidency goes to the team which can spend most on adverts. Who can you think of with the greatest fundraising capacity.

I'm delighted Mike Pence is unelectable, he's far and away the scariest politician out there.

I'm also pleased to see an absence of military contenders. I could name a few Generals I'd especially not like to see in the White House.

I'm sorry not to see Cory Booker on your list of potentials. If Presiden Biden calls it a day, I'd be surprised if Cory Booker weren't a serious contender.

And, of course, the bull in the china shop is missing from your list. "The New York Post characterizes Donald Trump's announcement of a third presidential bid on its front cover, below the fold at the bottom of the page: 'Florida Man Makes Announcement'." - and even then he can make more noise than everyone else combined.

We've never quite discussed which of his policies were wrong the first time round. It would be interesting. I don't actually think more Americans died from Covid despite his lunatic approach. His lack of national lockdowns saved the country a lot of lost production. What else might he have made a mess of?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

Well, let's start with his backing off some regulations that were in process before his arrival.
There have been several train wrecks recently which might have been prevented if we had gone forward with the planned synchronized braking systems to be implemented that would mean when a train was trying to stop, or slow down, all the cars would receive the braking command simultaneously, rather than having it passed down the line car by car.
There was the regulation that might have prevented the bank in California from imploding last month.

But, from my PoV, his attempt to run again, is assumed, but I am hopeful that the Republican party grows some balls and tells him to buzz off.

There is the possibility that the the brainless will overcome reason and completely scramble the Republican party, and maybe even interrupt the election process completely.
I remain hopeful. I live in a farming/ranching area, where Democrat candidate never even bother to register for open offices. In my county of a bit over five thousand voters, Biden received 145 votes last election.
pro Trump signs were all over the place, but this last year, almost all of those have disappeared. They may not go Democrat, but they may be hoping for some sanity.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

I'm interested that you feel such a degree of low-level legislative regulation is, or ever has been, the province of the White House. I'd have thought federal matters at that level were entirely decided by Congress, I'd thought Congress existed to generate and approve legislation. I'd have thought nobody at the White House would ever be expected to even know about braking procedures on transport systems, or even whether bank capitalization restraints were overheating. I'd thought relations between top House Republicans and President Trump were so frosty that no cooperation existed between them at all. Kevin McCarthy or something like that. Couldn't utter each others names without risking a seizure. Same with the Senate leader, Mitch McConnell.

In the UK we have collective responsibility of the Executive, which we call the Cabinet system. The two debating chambers exist to modify and approve bills brought by departments of state, each of which has representation in Cabinet. The disposition of Cabinet is the responsibility of the Prime Minister's office. The Prime Minister knows, effectively, sod all about what's happening in each department - that's why he appoints political heads of department as Ministers of the Crown. He doesn't bark, he keeps dogs to do that for him so he can focus on and react to significant events. If your President's office isn't like that then it ought to be.

If we have a fatal train crash, the Minister for Transport is expected to consider his position and offer his resignation. The Prime Minister is unaware there is a train system, he's insulated from responsibility. He never resigns, he sometimes gets dismissed by his colleagues if his direction is inadequate.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

There is legislation, which is the work of Congress, and there is regulation and enforcement, which is the domain of the executive offices, under the President's supervision.

A law is written that says Railroads should implement a particular safety device.
The regulatory agency then decides how to go about the implementation, and sets deadline for making that happen.
At some point a railroad comes to the executive office and says, "We need more time to carry this out." the President eventually hears the complaint and decides what to do about it.

There is a lot more to the process than that statement covers, but that is the basic notion.
But The Donald's response was basically, "Eh, don't worry about it."
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

Mike Pompeo Says He Won’t Run for President in 2024

“This isn’t our moment,” said Mr. Pompeo, a former Trump administration official. But he declined to endorse the former president and obliquely criticized him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/14/us/p ... ticleShare

That's one more no-show I'll not miss at all. Nasty chap from start to finish.


I see what you mean about administering departments from the White House. It's an odd way to delegate though.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

I might try to make a list of who has offered to serve as President next year and made it to the primary stage.

While I'm at it, could I enter a plea to all candidates?

We have in previous cycles seen a progressive rise in what has been termed "negative campaigning". https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 19-00084-8 provides useful background and gives examples. One, for instance, noted that ‘murder, robbery, rape, adultery and incest, will openly be taught and practiced, the air will be rent with cries and distress, the soil soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes' if Jefferson were to be elected. I would appreciate their consideration if all candidates for 2024 and their supporters, together with the reporting and entertainment media, refrain from these underhand corrosive tactics.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

An interesting if blatantly doomed Republican candidate has declared this week. Will Hurd is an ex-undercover CIA officer working in counter-terrorism who switched to being a Texas State Congressman, if I have that term right. His paranoid election bid declares "“Our enemies plot, create chaos, and threaten the American dream. At home, illegal immigration and fentanyl stream into our country".

He's quite right about illegal fentanyl smuggling, it's time America took control of the trade rather than leaving it in the hands of criminals. But I'd quite like to hear his definition of "the American dream" before he evaporates from the public arena, the phrase always brings American Exceptionalism, Manifest Destiny and the mass extermination of the First Nations to mind whenever I hear it.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/06/23/w ... ntial-bid/
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

Yeah, the Rethuglican Party seems to be encouraging all the clowns to jump on the train, hoping that any real hope will be lost in the "Fog of War."

DeSantis is the Lead Clown, according to everything I have seen. Everything else is just the shuffle.

My fear is that the Dems are going to stick with Biden, with no back-up plan, whatever.
But then, again, they do still have the lead Horse, and to mix a few metaphors, it's far too early for them to show their hand at the table.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

The only way the franchise is going to increase its world audience figures is to resurrect their previous incumbent. I'm definitely up for watching Trump 2: Political Boogaloo.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

A quote from President Trump's address to Californian Republicans, in pursuit of the primary nomination:
“We will immediately stop all of the pillaging and theft. Very simply: If you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store,” Trump said, spurring applause. “Shot!”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... bbers-shot

Nobody has said recently whether they regard him as a likely winner in November. I think he's odds on.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

Several states' legislatures are following Colorado's lead, and working on removing him from the candidate lists for 2024.
With over 90 indictments in the works he is going to get bounced from the ballot. I hope.

If he actually is on the ballot, come November next, it will definitely get very messy.
Surely the Republican Party sill awaken soon and come to their senses.

Though watching the impeachment hearings this week, I am not so sure of that.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

I'm not sure a state refusing to allow a rabble-rouser on the ballot wouldn't be worse for long-term democracy than having him win. It's a partisan measure where there are principles of even-handedness. Besides, bringing a 'disqualified' case against him without formally getting a prior verdict that he ‘engaged in insurrection or rebellion’ and gave ‘aid or comfort’ is putting the cart before the horse, I don't think the two issues should be conflated into a single trial.

And yes, a year off - I'd thought we'd got a year left but you're right, it's still a year and a bit. I spoke a month too soon for the syntax to be unambiguous.

He'll presumably wait until the primaries are over before picking Marjorie Taylor Greene as running mate, she appears to be made for the job. Except she might appear, once they're linked, to be the brains behind the partnership.

Your unsavory DeSantis chappie appears to be dropping entirely off the radar, he's getting close to the "who was DeSantis?" category that all the other contenders already occupy.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

I'm not sure where to post this.

President Trump is asking for a second term, knowing he'd be 82 by the end of it? Goodness knows what sort of clarity he expects to command by then.

He certainly knows nothing at all about batteries.
“If I’m sitting down and that boat is going down and I’m on top of a battery and the water starts flooding in, I’m getting concerned, but then I look 10 yards to my left and there’s a shark over there, so I have a choice of electrocution and a shark, you know what I’m going to take? Electrocution,” Trump said. “I will take electrocution every single time, do we agree?”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... event-iowa
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:35 pm I'm not sure where to post this.

President Trump is asking for a second term, knowing he'd be 82 by the end of it? Goodness knows what sort of clarity he expects to command by then.

He certainly knows nothing at all about batteries.
“If I’m sitting down and that boat is going down and I’m on top of a battery and the water starts flooding in, I’m getting concerned, but then I look 10 yards to my left and there’s a shark over there, so I have a choice of electrocution and a shark, you know what I’m going to take? Electrocution,” Trump said. “I will take electrocution every single time, do we agree?”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... event-iowa
OK, mindless - but the current BBC coverage of the fraud trial is the most biassed, anti-trump, rubbish ve seen in a long time :-

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-66978988
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

There is, as you say, demonization involved. I don't see how it helps, I'd much rather have a balanced discussion.

I would, for example, like to consider President Trump's first term and compare it with the one before and after. I think the long view would be that domestically the Trump administration was catastrophic but that for foreign relations the ones either side were equally so, while Trump's years were benign by comparison.

Now, not being American, I have reasons which are unlikely to cohere with those of the people who actually vote on who takes office. I take exception to having no vote because US foreign policy has a significant effect on my life - I feel I should at least have my say and announce who I'd rather have for the next term. In the foreign policy arena, Trump is quite definitely a dove and the current administration is as rabidly anti-World as any US administration of the past.

The fact that Trump is a dishonorable cheating trickster with no apparent moral compass doesn't bother me at all and the fact that he can raise a resentful rabble capable of putting him in office is a spectacular indictment of half the electorate. I still prefer the notion of him getting his second term.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

Mike Pence: Former US Vice President withdraws from 2024 presidential race

Someone clearly ran out of donations.



eta: we have additional comment - "after prayer and deliberation he concludes ‘it is not my time’". Christians really make my skin crawl on occasion.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

I was surprised that Mr Pence stayed with it as long as he did.
Nearly Half the Republicans are still nosing up to Trump, and seem to resent Pence's lack of loyalty to him on January 6.
The rest want to move on to somebody else who cannot be directly implicated in the whole fiasco.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

This is just daft, it really is.
Biden ‘not sure he’d be running’ in 2024 if Trump wasn’t: ‘We cannot let him win’

President spoke about risks Trump poses to democracy at event amid fears a second term would be far more autocratic

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... l-election

I simply don't understand what President Biden thinks he's doing. He was too old to run in 2020, it is insanity for him to think that his running in 2024 will improve the chance of a Democrat winning against President Trump. The best person to win against President Trump would be a Democrat below the age of retirement. Both parties need a rebore.

I haven't gone near the inanity of his pardoning a Thanksgiving turkey in the middle of the Gaza Strip bloodbath, the entire performance was deeply seriously unhinged. Presidents are allowed to do that when the world is at peace and things are looking good, and even then it's never amusing. It's one of those funny-once events that should never be repeated, and it died forever when that twerp Bush Jr smirked all the way through his routine.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by spot »

I note the last of the Republican debates is done. The most I gathered was that the participants were a succession of people that no sane American would want as their President, which made the exercise a useful self-identification of rejects. The clear winner by a mile refused to participate but I bet he's smiling at the way it turned out.

Betting? The current odds to win the 2024 Presidential election, normalized to the same $2 bet, in order of favorites, are:

3/2 Donald Trump (R)
4/2 Joe Biden (D)
18/2 Nikki Haley (R)
22/2 Gavin Newsom (D)
40/2 Robert Kennedy Jr (Independent)
56/2 Michelle Obama (D)
66/2 Rn DeSantis (R)
80/2 Kamala Harris (D)

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us ... 024/winner
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

I had not yet heard much about Michelle being in the running.
I kinda like the idea.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

So, the Rethuglicans have arranged to have an Impeachment hearing for President Biden going on during the Election cycle, next year.
It would seem, then, that both prime candidates will be campaigning while under investigation.
And there is a discussion going on to suspend Trump's ongoing trial in New York during the Election Cycle so that he can campaign without having to fret over those pesky indictments.

This is going to be a very interesting election.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by Bryn Mawr »

What legal grounds are they using to argue for a suspension of the trial?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2024

Post by LarsMac »

Bryn Mawr wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:42 am What legal grounds are they using to argue for a suspension of the trial?
Not sure of the legal grounds, but the argument seems to be that the trial would be right in the middle of the Campaign cycle offering the most egregious example of "Election Interference" in history.


The Prosecutor "brushed off that idea, pointing out that prosecutors all over the country are always investigating people for various crimes and that they do not stop doing so just because someone runs for office."
“If the prosecutor finds that they violated the law, they have an ethical duty to bring forth charges and so this is a silly notion to me that because one runs from office that your criminal case would stop,” she said.
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