How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:51 pm

Sorry but Jesus was long dead before the writers came on the scene. Jesus was dead even before Paul came on the scene. The average lifetime at that time was at best 35 No they are stories handed down over the years by word of mouth. It is called in scholarly cycles oral tradition. That is the problem with fundamentalism it will never get to the truth or the beauty of the Biblical stories. nor the life of our Lord. BRAIN WASHED. You speak of scholars . I doubt you

ve ever read any good scholarly papers. I do read for the truth and you read to support what your mind has already decided, your truth not

Biblical truth.

The writer of the gospel of John, which was written about the end of the first century was not even born when Jesus was alive. If Jesus wass about 32 and the Gospel of John was written around the end of the first Cent. than John must have been at least 2 lifetimes after Jesus.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:04 pm

And we haven't even got to "Heaven" yet.!!!!!!!!!!!!! That will be a dandy one.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Ted;1521459 wrote: That cannot be supported by any legitimates outside the mind of ignorance. I asked a Jewish scholar, since the book was written by Jews and confirmed thatr the Christmas story is purely Midrash. I also got the same response from honest Christian scholars. The fundies don't like that because they are not interested in the historical truth just ferry tales.

That is your big mistake. You asked a Jew who doesn't believe the New Testament if the New Testament is true? It's not Midrash. He is wrong. Any honest Christian Scholar wouldn't call the Bible or the New Testament midrash. Midrash didn't even come about until about 200 AD long after the Bible was completed in 90 AD. Early Secular History supports the New Testament.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:56 pm

xfrod I stand by what I wrote. In the world of honest Christian research you are out to lunch. And pigs flly too.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:07 pm

It is Christian fundamentalism that has given the ideals of Christianity bad name.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:34 pm

Ted;1521461 wrote: the fact of the matter is that we have no idea who wrote the gospels. The names were appended long after the writing by unknown writers.

Bull. They were written by the actual eyewitnesses to the events. Even most secular, liberal scholars agree with me not you.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:30 pm

Ted;1521470 wrote: On the authors of the Biblical writers. To suggest they were eye witnesses is BS baffles brains. That is what happens when you do not want to face reality. Living in never land

You are the one living in never land. You have been brainwashed by Liberal Theology. I already demonstrated that most liberal scholars even agree with me not you, plus nearly all of the conservative ones. It's keeping you from believing the truth of the Word of God.

You are just refusing to believe it because you don't want it to be true because then you will have to be accountable to God and His Word.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:00 pm

That post is just a big laugh. I have no need for a religion based on fear. I trust in God.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:11 pm

Ted;1521545 wrote: That post is just a big laugh. I have no need for a religion based on fear. I trust in God.

So, you will ignore what God says in the Bible and make your own beliefs as you see fit, hence you want to make God in your own image rather than conforming to His image. That's not going to end well for you when you stand before God. You had better rethink this.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:28 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1521553 wrote: So, you will ignore what God says in the Bible and make your own beliefs as you see fit, hence you want to make God in your own image rather than conforming to His image. That's not going to end well for you when you stand before God. You had better rethink this.

That sounds more like what you are doing, Bob.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:42 pm

LarsMac;1521556 wrote: That sounds more like what you are doing, Bob.

Oh really? What did I say about the Bible that isn't true? Do you even know what the Bible says or care?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:56 pm

Many so called Christians do not have a clue about the Bible: How to read it and interpret it. God is not a being out there. The Bible for what it is worth says that God is a spirit not a physical being. Even Paul new that as he said flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom. Personally I take the Bible seriously but absolutely not literally. Literalism is in my view a heresy.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:56 pm

Ted;1521563 wrote: Many so called Christians do not have a clue about the Bible: How to read it and interpret it. God is not a being out there. The Bible for what it is worth says that God is a spirit not a physical being. Even Paul new that as he said flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom. Personally I take the Bible seriously but absolutely not literally. Literalism is in my view a heresy.

In this paragraph you have just proven that you are one of those people you just described. God IS a being out there according to the entire Bible The bible DOES say that God is a physical being in the person of Jesus Christ. Flesh and Blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but flesh and bone will. Jesus Christ's resurrected body was flesh and bone. He ate with the disciples, He talked with them, they touched Him and felt the nail prints in His hands and feet. He had a physical body before resurrection, but after, it was geared more toward the Spirit, so you are partially correct in that manner. But He still ate and touched the disciples. It was still a physical body. Literalism is the only true way to interpret the scripture unless it's explained otherwise or obviously implied otherwise. I believe that allegorizing the Bible is heresy. Jesus expected His disciples and mankind to obey the Bible. Hence the phrase "It is written" over and over again in the Bible.

Jesus said:

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. {tempt: or, try, or, put to trial, or, proof}

Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mt 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mt 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Mt 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mt 26:31 Â¶ Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Mr 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mr 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mr 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mr 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Mr 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Mr 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. {offended: or, scandalized, or, shall stumble}

Lu 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

Lu 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Lu 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

Lu 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Lu 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Lu 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Joh 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

Ac 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. {bishoprick: or, office, or, charge}

Ac 7:42 Â¶ Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Ac 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Ac 23:5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Ro 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Ro 4:17 Â¶ (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. {before him: or, like unto him}

Ro 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Ro 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Ro 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. {ashamed: or confounded}

Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Ro 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. {slumber: or, remorse}

Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Ro 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Ro 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Ro 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Ro 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Co 14:21 Â¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Ga 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Ga 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Heb 10:7 Â¶ Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:35 pm

CHINA'S CRACKDOWN ON CHRISTIANS RAISES ALARM

https://www.wnd.com/2018/12/chinas-crac ... ses-alarm/

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:51 pm

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:35 pm

& A Happy New Year!!!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:24 pm

some even go so far as to make the Bible into God. Some go so far as to make the creation stories in the Bible in to a real historic event when in fact they are pure myth.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:33 pm

To make the Bible into a god is a form of idolatry.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:15 am

Ted;1521735 wrote: To make the Bible into a god is a form of idolatry.

As are the Churches fetish with statues & symbols of sacred figures. As for the incessant images of cherubs - naked little boys everywhere - what's all that about? If it weren't protected in law under the name of Religion such figures would be banned as being Paedophilic Material.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:01 pm

Ted;1521734 wrote: some even go so far as to make the Bible into God. Some go so far as to make the creation stories in the Bible in to a real historic event when in fact they are pure myth.

The Bible is the Word of God Himself. We worship God by obeying His Word. I'll bite, the creation stories in the Bible ARE real historic events and evolution is a myth. I think Pahu gave you plenty of evidence to prove that point. Pahu is right!

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:07 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1521753 wrote: The Bible is the Word of God Himself. We worship God by obeying His Word. I'll bite, the creation stories in the Bible ARE real historic events and evolution is a myth. I think Pahu gave you plenty of evidence to prove that point. Pahu is right!

Pahu was an idiot, and his so-called 'evidence' was shown, time & time again to be false. Every time he came up with 'facts' they were shown to have long been debunked. His ONLY source of 'evidence' was a book by Walt Brown, whose sole qualification is a PhD in Engineering, which, typical of Creationists somehow seems to mean that because he has a PhD makes him some sort of expert of Geology, Biology, Cosmology & Quantum Physics. Once again, as is a common tactic of Creationists he would frequently use cherry picked sections of quotes, used totally out of context.

The Bible is not the word of God, it is the word of superstitious men. The proof for that is that God does not exist, whereas the Bible does, and so do men. You only need to look on YouTube for such illusionists as David Blaine to see how easy it is to convince people that they may have magical powers.

Every supposed 'prophesy' in the Bible is so vague that it can be interpreted in a number of ways, in exactly the same way as the horoscope in every cheap daily paper.

Evolution is a proven fact, plain & simple. It has passed all the required tests required by Science - Observation, Theorise, Predict, Repeat & to be Peer Reviewed. Nothing the Creationists come up with has come close to any of this.

The evidence supporting Evolution fills Libraries around the world. All the Creationists have is a single book that consistently contradicts itself.

Quite frankly, I find it cause for concern that there are still so many people in the world who are sufficiently gullible enough to believe in Creationism.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:57 pm

FourPart;1521763 wrote: Pahu was an idiot, and his so-called 'evidence' was shown, time & time again to be false. Every time he came up with 'facts' they were shown to have long been debunked. His ONLY source of 'evidence' was a book by Walt Brown, whose sole qualification is a PhD in Engineering, which, typical of Creationists somehow seems to mean that because he has a PhD makes him some sort of expert of Geology, Biology, Cosmology & Quantum Physics. Once again, as is a common tactic of Creationists he would frequently use cherry picked sections of quotes, used totally out of context.

The Bible is not the word of God, it is the word of superstitious men. The proof for that is that God does not exist, whereas the Bible does, and so do men. You only need to look on YouTube for such illusionists as David Blaine to see how easy it is to convince people that they may have magical powers.

Every supposed 'prophesy' in the Bible is so vague that it can be interpreted in a number of ways, in exactly the same way as the horoscope in every cheap daily paper.

Evolution is a proven fact, plain & simple. It has passed all the required tests required by Science - Observation, Theorise, Predict, Repeat & to be Peer Reviewed. Nothing the Creationists come up with has come close to any of this.

The evidence supporting Evolution fills Libraries around the world. All the Creationists have is a single book that consistently contradicts itself.

Quite frankly, I find it cause for concern that there are still so many people in the world who are sufficiently gullible enough to believe in Creationism.

People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the evidence. This has been shown over and over since the Trumpers took over around my neighborhood.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:34 pm

FourPart;1521763 wrote: Pahu was an idiot, and his so-called 'evidence' was shown, time & time again to be false. Every time he came up with 'facts' they were shown to have long been debunked. His ONLY source of 'evidence' was a book by Walt Brown, whose sole qualification is a PhD in Engineering, which, typical of Creationists somehow seems to mean that because he has a PhD makes him some sort of expert of Geology, Biology, Cosmology & Quantum Physics. Once again, as is a common tactic of Creationists he would frequently use cherry picked sections of quotes, used totally out of context.

The Bible is not the word of God, it is the word of superstitious men. The proof for that is that God does not exist, whereas the Bible does, and so do men. You only need to look on YouTube for such illusionists as David Blaine to see how easy it is to convince people that they may have magical powers.

Every supposed 'prophesy' in the Bible is so vague that it can be interpreted in a number of ways, in exactly the same way as the horoscope in every cheap daily paper.

Evolution is a proven fact, plain & simple. It has passed all the required tests required by Science - Observation, Theorise, Predict, Repeat & to be Peer Reviewed. Nothing the Creationists come up with has come close to any of this.

The evidence supporting Evolution fills Libraries around the world. All the Creationists have is a single book that consistently contradicts itself.

Quite frankly, I find it cause for concern that there are still so many people in the world who are sufficiently gullible enough to believe in Creationism.

Pahu knew the truth. What happened to him? Why is he no longer on here? And his evidence is not proven to be false. All you guys did was criticize him but never show the evidence false. Your version of debunked is some evolutionist just merely claiming that it's not true with some flimsy reason. The Bible is the very Word of God Himself and we will all be held accountable when we die and stand before God. The proof is that God DOES exist and it's overwhelming. To believe that the Universe could have come about on it's own is completely un scientific and impossible. As far as I know, David Blaine never healed the sick, made the blind to see, made the lame to walk, raise the dead, walked on water, turned water into wine, create the Universe from nothing, predict his own death and resurrection and then die and rise again. The prophecies are not vague I can show you over 100 of His first coming alone that were fulfilled very clearly. Herod knew when and where Jesus would be born because of the Bible prophecies that were written of Him hundreds of years before. Evolution is NOT a proven fact and is also false. It is very full of holes. Pahu pointed out many of these holes, but you never considered his evidence as valid, you just closed your mind to it before you even read it. The Bible is not a single book, it's 66 books written over a 1500 year period through 40 prophets in different parts of the world, many didn't know each other or have access to the other's writings, yet it fits together as if written by one person because it was. It was written by God Himself to us. It's His instruction book to the world and if you choose to reject it, that is your choice. Even the evolutionists own evidence shows them wrong, but they just can't seem to understand that.

Besides all of that, God Himself has revealed Himself to me more times than I can count and in very real ways. He has done the same for countless millions of Christians and that's why you can't convince them that He doesn't exist because they truly KNOW God as real as you know who your father is. You will never stamp out Christianity or Judaism from the earth for Christ Himself will rule and reign here on the earth and very soon. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is the Lord to the Glory of the Eternal Father.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:55 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1521792 wrote: Besides all of that, God Himself has revealed Himself to me more times than I can count and in very real ways. He has done the same for countless millions of Christians and that's why you can't convince them that He doesn't exist because they truly KNOW God as real as you know who your father is. You will never stamp out Christianity or Judaism from the earth for Christ Himself will rule and reign here on the earth and very soon. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is the Lord to the Glory of the Eternal Father.

These are exactly the ravings of a Dictator. What happened to a loving God, who gives Free Will? What is the point of Free Will if nothing you do is not what God intends. That would mean that there is no Free Will at all. Just as with everything else in the Bible it is self contradictory. You still accept the word of the Bible as being Literal, whilst even most Theological Scholars accept it to be metaphorical. Furthermore, most Religious schools (including the Vatican) also accept Evolution as a given Fact, and consider those who don't as being extremists.

Throughout History the Church has been very lothe to accept any ground breaking Scientific discoveries, as they always saw it as lessening their importance in the overall view of things. For instance, when Gallileo first revelaed that we went around the sun instead of the other way round, the Church put him on trial for herecy.

Bear in mind also, that Darwin, himself, was not only a practicing Christian, but had been planning on taking Holy Orders, until he realised the truth about Evolution & could no longer reconcile his Faith with the evidence of Science.

You see, there is an ever increasing mass of evidence to support Evolution. Even before the discovery of DNA further discoveries had been predicted & the discovery of DNA confirmed these predictions as being accurate. Predictions of just what kind of fossils would be found in the Geological Ladder & in which part of the world, based on the rules of Evolution, and these discovery have consequently been made. All medical research of vaccines is based on an understanding of the way viruses evolve.

Pahu only ever pasted from his own personal Bible, by Walt Brown, without even checking the sources for himself, even when directed to them. Typical of Creationists he would Cherry Pick & take quotes out of context - such as the one he tried using of Stephen Hawkings, supposedly stating that something proved the existence of a God. When I Googled the actual quote I came up with a copy of the entire speech, which was actually stating the exact opposite. It was just the clip that had been blatently taken out of context. Pahu was in no position to deny this once presented with the evidence, and just claimed that only that bit of what Hawkings said was accurate & that everything else that he said was unsubstantiated conjecture. This is coming from the person who only appears to have ever read one book about the person who is internationally reputed as being the top genius of our time - even above Einstein.

Next, as with all other Creationists, not once would he ever answer the question as to what evidence would be acceptable to prove that Evolution was a fact. Why? Because h knows full well that no sooner were he to make that definition than there would be evidence already in existence to that fact.

As with any claim being made the onus is on the person making that claim to provide evidence that will stand up to the scrutiny of the pillars of Science to prove that claim. Evolution has more than adequately met this challenge. The doctrine of there being a God has no more met with these criteria than the existence of the Tooth Fairy has.

In fact I ask you the same question. What evidence would you find acceptable?

I suggest you watch some of the presentations of the late, great, Christopher Hitchens & Richard Dawkins.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:27 pm

FourPart;1521806 wrote: These are exactly the ravings of a Dictator. What happened to a loving God, who gives Free Will? What is the point of Free Will if nothing you do is not what God intends. That would mean that there is no Free Will at all. Just as with everything else in the Bible it is self contradictory. You still accept the word of the Bible as being Literal, whilst even most Theological Scholars accept it to be metaphorical. Furthermore, most Religious schools (including the Vatican) also accept Evolution as a given Fact, and consider those who don't as being extremists.

Throughout History the Church has been very lothe to accept any ground breaking Scientific discoveries, as they always saw it as lessening their importance in the overall view of things. For instance, when Gallileo first revelaed that we went around the sun instead of the other way round, the Church put him on trial for herecy.

Bear in mind also, that Darwin, himself, was not only a practicing Christian, but had been planning on taking Holy Orders, until he realised the truth about Evolution & could no longer reconcile his Faith with the evidence of Science.

You see, there is an ever increasing mass of evidence to support Evolution. Even before the discovery of DNA further discoveries had been predicted & the discovery of DNA confirmed these predictions as being accurate. Predictions of just what kind of fossils would be found in the Geological Ladder & in which part of the world, based on the rules of Evolution, and these discovery have consequently been made. All medical research of vaccines is based on an understanding of the way viruses evolve.

Pahu only ever pasted from his own personal Bible, by Walt Brown, without even checking the sources for himself, even when directed to them. Typical of Creationists he would Cherry Pick & take quotes out of context - such as the one he tried using of Stephen Hawkings, supposedly stating that something proved the existence of a God. When I Googled the actual quote I came up with a copy of the entire speech, which was actually stating the exact opposite. It was just the clip that had been blatently taken out of context. Pahu was in no position to deny this once presented with the evidence, and just claimed that only that bit of what Hawkings said was accurate & that everything else that he said was unsubstantiated conjecture. This is coming from the person who only appears to have ever read one book about the person who is internationally reputed as being the top genius of our time - even above Einstein.

Next, as with all other Creationists, not once would he ever answer the question as to what evidence would be acceptable to prove that Evolution was a fact. Why? Because h knows full well that no sooner were he to make that definition than there would be evidence already in existence to that fact.

As with any claim being made the onus is on the person making that claim to provide evidence that will stand up to the scrutiny of the pillars of Science to prove that claim. Evolution has more than adequately met this challenge. The doctrine of there being a God has no more met with these criteria than the existence of the Tooth Fairy has.

In fact I ask you the same question. What evidence would you find acceptable?

I suggest you watch some of the presentations of the late, great, Christopher Hitchens & Richard Dawkins.

We have free will to choose our course, we do not get to dictate the consequences of our choices. God is a loving God who gives free will. He has set natural laws in order so that if you choose poorly there will be negative consequences and vice versa. I accept it as literal unless it specifies otherwise or is plainly obvious. Liberals try to allegorize the Bible so that they can twist it up to say and mean what THEY would like it to mean rather than believing what it actually says. Vatican=Liberal false teachers. They are leading people astray and not obeying the scriptures.

The Church does accept actual scientific discoveries, but they don't accept lies like evolution when even the evolutionists own evidence contradicts their claims. It was the Catholic Church that you just referenced that had issue with Galileo. I am not a Catholic.

From what I understand, even Darwin realized evolution was false near the end of his life and became a Christian.

There is a mass of evidence to support creationism and contradict evolution. It's a faith based system, but you have been entrenched in it since birth it seems. It's hard to think outside of the box once you have been indoctrinated. I was raised in school with that crap and never fully understood the other side until I was older. Remember that creationists don't deny micro evolution within the species. Everyone knows that they change. What you don't understand is that they never evolve into a different species ever because DNA would have to increase and it never does ever. It does decrease at times though.

The evidence that would prove evolution as fact would be to show increases in genetic DNA due to mutations, but it has never been shown to happen. Also, there would need to be actual missing links between the different kinds of animals in the fossil record, but there are none. There are no half dog breeds with another species, half horse species...ect. They always stay dogs and horses no matter how much the DNA shuffles. Lots of breeds of dogs, they always stay dogs.

Richard Dawkins himself admitted that there has never been discovered once an increase in genetic DNA.

See Dawkins stumped here:

There are tons of evidence supporting creationism that is censored from school textbooks. If only one side of the story is ever told, it's easy to convince people of a lie.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:30 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1521814 wrote: We have free will to choose our course, we do not get to dictate the consequences of our choices. God is a loving God who gives free will. He has set natural laws in order so that if you choose poorly there will be negative consequences and vice versa. I accept it as literal unless it specifies otherwise or is plainly obvious. Liberals try to allegorize the Bible so that they can twist it up to say and mean what THEY would like it to mean rather than believing what it actually says. Vatican=Liberal false teachers. They are leading people astray and not obeying the scriptures.

The Church does accept actual scientific discoveries, but they don't accept lies like evolution when even the evolutionists own evidence contradicts their claims. It was the Catholic Church that you just referenced that had issue with Galileo. I am not a Catholic.

The Roman Catholic Church was the first established Christian Church. Therefore any offshoots are the ones who are changing the meanings.

From what I understand, even Darwin realized evolution was false near the end of his life and became a Christian.

Then you understand wrong. There is a common invention by Creationists that he recanted on his Death Bed. This has been totally refuted by his family as a total lie.

There is a mass of evidence to support creationism and contradict evolution. It's a faith based system, but you have been entrenched in it since birth it seems. It's hard to think outside of the box once you have been indoctrinated. I was raised in school with that crap and never fully understood the other side until I was older.

You say there is a mass of evidence? Show me one piece of any of this mass of evidence. You also say it is Faith based. That much is true, because Faith does not require evidence. Faith based belief & Evidence based belief are totally opposing things.

Remember that creationists don't deny micro evolution within the species. Everyone knows that they change. What you don't understand is that they never evolve into a different species ever because DNA would have to increase and it never does ever. It does decrease at times though.

Just as with the clip you included supposedly of Dawkins being stumped, it was clear he wasn't stumped, he was just confounded over how stupid the question was, as it clearly demonstrated that the interviewer didn't have a clue about how Evolution works. Creationists seem to hold to the view that A leads to B, which leads to C, etc., when this is not the case. Evolution works by branching off & following a different course, with the species adapting to suit their individual environments. The interviewer was asking him to provide an example of how something worked on the A to B to C principle, when that's not how it works at all.

The evidence that would prove evolution as fact would be to show increases in genetic DNA due to mutations, but it has never been shown to happen. Also, there would need to be actual missing links between the different kinds of animals in the fossil record, but there are none. There are no half dog breeds with another species, half horse species...ect. They always stay dogs and horses no matter how much the DNA shuffles. Lots of breeds of dogs, they always stay dogs.

Just as explained previously you clearly have no idea how Evolution works. Micro Evolution & Macro Evolution are just terms invented by Creationists. There is just Evolution. Environments change & life either evolves to adapt to those changes, dies off, or moves to a new environment, all of which are known to happen. Even in the clip you provide of Dawkins he affirms this much by saying that we are NOT descended from apes, but that apes & humans have a common ancestor. They have simply evolved in different ways.

Richard Dawkins himself admitted that there has never been discovered once an increase in genetic DNA.

Because, as he said, that's not how Evolution works. See previous info about how you have totally misinterpreted what he says, be it knowingly or not.

Incidentally, one example of additional genome information from mutation is found in Down Syndrome. They have an additional chromosome (21). This technically means that their DNA is different from what you would class as being 'human'.

There are tons of evidence supporting creationism that is censored from school textbooks. If only one side of the story is ever told, it's easy to convince people of a lie.Once again I ask you to provide any examples of this evidence. That is twice you have made this claim in the same post, without providing any sources to substantiate it. And vague quotes from a Story Book which is only consistent in its inconsistency does not count as 'Evidence'.

Furthermore you still have not answered my question as to what evidence would you find acceptable to prove the validity of Evolution. I have already given you one example of changes / addition to the Genome with Downs. Whilst that is not going to be a beneficial change in the Genome & left to its own devices would not survive to reproduce, but it is a change nonetheless & demonstrates that changes can & do happen.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:18 pm

FourPart;1521825 wrote: The Roman Catholic Church was the first established Christian Church. Therefore any offshoots are the ones who are changing the meanings.

Then you understand wrong. There is a common invention by Creationists that he recanted on his Death Bed. This has been totally refuted by his family as a total lie.

You say there is a mass of evidence? Show me one piece of any of this mass of evidence. You also say it is Faith based. That much is true, because Faith does not require evidence. Faith based belief & Evidence based belief are totally opposing things.

Just as with the clip you included supposedly of Dawkins being stumped, it was clear he wasn't stumped, he was just confounded over how stupid the question was, as it clearly demonstrated that the interviewer didn't have a clue about how Evolution works. Creationists seem to hold to the view that A leads to B, which leads to C, etc., when this is not the case. Evolution works by branching off & following a different course, with the species adapting to suit their individual environments. The interviewer was asking him to provide an example of how something worked on the A to B to C principle, when that's not how it works at all.

Just as explained previously you clearly have no idea how Evolution works. Micro Evolution & Macro Evolution are just terms invented by Creationists. There is just Evolution. Environments change & life either evolves to adapt to those changes, dies off, or moves to a new environment, all of which are known to happen. Even in the clip you provide of Dawkins he affirms this much by saying that we are NOT descended from apes, but that apes & humans have a common ancestor. They have simply evolved in different ways.

Because, as he said, that's not how Evolution works. See previous info about how you have totally misinterpreted what he says, be it knowingly or not.

Incidentally, one example of additional genome information from mutation is found in Down Syndrome. They have an additional chromosome (21). This technically means that their DNA is different from what you would class as being 'human'.

Once again I ask you to provide any examples of this evidence. That is twice you have made this claim in the same post, without providing any sources to substantiate it. And vague quotes from a Story Book which is only consistent in its inconsistency does not count as 'Evidence'.

Furthermore you still have not answered my question as to what evidence would you find acceptable to prove the validity of Evolution. I have already given you one example of changes / addition to the Genome with Downs. Whilst that is not going to be a beneficial change in the Genome & left to its own devices would not survive to reproduce, but it is a change nonetheless & demonstrates that changes can & do happen.

False. The Roman Catholic Church wasn't established until Constantine in the 300s AD. The early Church was established in the first Century AD. The Catholic Church had the backing of the Roman Empire and although their doctrine was corrupt, they would persecute and kill, torture and imprison anyone who disagreed with them, so the true Church went underground and doesn't have as large of a historical footprint. Read a book by James M Carroll that explains this entitled "The Trail of Blood" and also read "Foxes book of Martyres. The true church is established in persecution and blood, not riches and power.

https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,% ... arroll.htm

Christianity is faith based but it has tons of evidence to back it up. Darwinean evolution is also a faith based religion, but is lacking in the evidence.

Dawson wasn't stumped? It was a stupid question? No, it was a question that he couldn't answer and he knows as well as the creationists something that you don't know. That in order for Darwinian evolution to happen that there must be an increase in genetic DNA, yet he couldn't name one example because it's never happened. That's why he was stumped. He tried to veer off into a different aspect. It's all faith based with zero evidence. Zero transitional fossils to back it up. Only claims of transitional fossils which are merely examples of lateral adaptation, within the species. Never a half breed of one kind with another, ever.

You claim micro is no different than macro evolution, but there isn't any examples that prove your point. The creationists are right.

Down syndrome is merely an extra copy of existing DNA and it results in negative things happening, not positive.

Questions you should answer:

1) Show how matter and energy could have spontaneously create it's self out of nothing, contrary to scientific law. The law of conservation of energy and thermodynamics state that it is impossible for matter and energy to exist, yet here it is. How did it get here? (I thought evolution was based on science and evidence? )

2) Show how abiogenisis happened, it's never been shown to happen ever. The simplest life forms have Hundreds to thousands of genes. It's not possible for it to just spontaneously create it's self for many many different reasons.

3) Show how the 2 sexes evolved.

4) Show how the 4 chamber heart evolved.

5) Show how the human eye evolved.

6) Why is irreducible complexity wrong in your view because it sure makes sense to me.

More questions later, but you told me to ask questions of you. Also, what happened to Pahu?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:52 pm

LarsMac;1521767 wrote: People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the evidence. This has been shown over and over since the Trumpers took over around my neighborhood.

Trump fixed the economy big time. He is fixing the twisted policies of Obama. America is now the #1 oil priducer in the world because of Trump. Jobs are coming back. Wages are on the rise and the Liberals hate him for it. Then the Conservatives are called the ones with twisted logic. Ok then. Enough said.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:21 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1522030 wrote: Trump fixed the economy big time. He is fixing the twisted policies of Obama. America is now the #1 oil priducer in the world because of Trump. Jobs are coming back. Wages are on the rise and the Liberals hate him for it. Then the Conservatives are called the ones with twisted logic. Ok then. Enough said.

What HAVE you been drinking, Bob?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:48 pm

LarsMac;1522031 wrote: What HAVE you been drinking, Bob?

Unemployment lowest since 1972, all time low Black unemployment, all time low latino unemployment, all time low female unemployment, 3.2% GDP average opposed to Obama's 1.6% GDP average, stock market at record highs, US is the #1 oil producer in the world, tariffs are getting balanced, manufacturing jobs are flooding back into the US at extraordinary rates, the corporate tax is 21% which has cause wages to spike up the most in at least a decade, regulations cut which saves billions of dollars and also helps job growth, gas prices are under $2 per gallon which boosts the economy thanks to Trump's policy on oil production that Obama blocked, Capitalism is working. What is going on in Venezuela since they went Socialist?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:07 pm

Just want to encourage anyone who hasn't read this first post to read it before discussing.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:55 pm

What type of Christian are you?

Christianity's future looks more like Lady Gaga than Mike Pence.

"You would rarely put Ocasio-Cortez, Lady Gaga, Pence and Sanders into the same box about any topic, yet they all self-identify as Christians. So what can we make of these Christian feuds?

Beyond putting the diversity of American Christianity on display, Ocasio-Cortez and Lady Gaga give me hope that progressive Christians will stop ceding our tradition to the fundamentalists."

CarmelaSara · Post by **CarmelaSara** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:03 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1522095 wrote: Just want to encourage anyone who hasn't read this first post to read it before discussing.

The Bible is a book..historical fiction, wouldnâ€™t you agree?

â€œ...different books of the Bible are written as different genres, some history, some poetry, some prophecy, some correspondence. Can you say a poem is fact or fiction? Then you have Jesus whose favorite teaching style was using parables (stories) to teach lessons. For example, when Jesus told the story of the prodigal son, all the characters in that story are obviously made up, but the point was to convey a deeper meaning, not create a historical record, so would a parable be fact or fiction? In that case, I would say itâ€™s bothâ€¦a fictitious story that communicates a factual truth about life.â€

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:36 am

CarmelaSara;1522117 wrote: The Bible is a book..historical fiction, wouldnâ€™t you agree?

â€œ...different books of the Bible are written as different genres, some history, some poetry, some prophecy, some correspondence. â€

You left out 'some bull****'

Actually, I'd say the bible is pretty close to 100% bull****.

But that's just my opinion.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:21 am

Fuzzy;1522121 wrote: You left out 'some bull****'

Actually, I'd say the bible is pretty close to 100% bull****.

But that's just my opinion.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion.

But, actually, if you put away your animosity for a moment, you might find an appreciation for the Lore, and the poetry, just like the mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse, or the tales of Aesop and Homer.

It can be fascinating reading.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:39 am

xfrodobagginsx;1522051 wrote: Unemployment lowest since 1972, all time low Black unemployment, all time low latino unemployment, all time low female unemployment, 3.2% GDP average opposed to Obama's 1.6% GDP average, stock market at record highs, US is the #1 oil producer in the world, tariffs are getting balanced, manufacturing jobs are flooding back into the US at extraordinary rates, the corporate tax is 21% which has cause wages to spike up the most in at least a decade, regulations cut which saves billions of dollars and also helps job growth, gas prices are under $2 per gallon which boosts the economy thanks to Trump's policy on oil production that Obama blocked, Capitalism is working. What is going on in Venezuela since they went Socialist?

Link: US led Economic War, not Socialism, is Tearing Venezuela Apart: Americans have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that â€˜socialism means poverty.â€™ But in the case of Venezuela and other states not governed by the free market, this cliche simply doesnâ€™t ring true.

by Caleb T. Maupin

Indeed, corporate-owned, mainstream media advises Americans to look at the inflation and food lines in Venezuela, and then repeat to themselves clichÃ©s they heard in elementary school about how â€œCommunism just doesnâ€™t work.â€

In reality, millions of Venezuelans have seen their living conditions vastly improved through the Bolivarian process. The problems plaguing the Venezuelan economy are not due to some inherent fault in socialism, but to artificially low oil prices and sabotage by forces hostile to the revolution.

Starting in 2014, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia flooded the market with cheap oil. This is not a mere business decision, but a calculated move coordinated with U.S. and Israeli foreign policy goals. Despite not just losing money, but even falling deep into debt, the Saudi monarchy continues to expand its oil production apparatus. The result has been driving the price of oil down from $110 per barrel, to $28 in the early months of this year. The goal is to weaken these opponents of Wall Street, London, and Tel Aviv, whose economies are centered around oil and natural gas exports.

And Venezuela is one of those countries. Saudi efforts to drive down oil prices have drastically reduced Venezuelaâ€™s state budget and led to enormous consequences for the Venezuelan economy.

At the same time, private food processing and importing corporations have launched a coordinated campaign of sabotage. This, coupled with the weakening of a vitally important state sector of the economy, has resulted in inflation and food shortages. The artificially low oil prices have left the Venezuelan state cash-starved, prompting a crisis in the funding of the social programs that were key to strengthening the United Socialist Party.

Corruption is a big problem in Venezuela and many third-world countries. This was true prior to the Bolivarian process, as well as after Hugo Chavez launched his massive economic reforms. In situations of extreme poverty, people learn to take care of each other. People who work in government are almost expected to use their position to take care of their friends and family. Corruption is a big problem under any system, but it is much easier to tolerate in conditions of greater abundance. The problem has been magnified in Venezuela due to the drop in state revenue caused by the low oil prices and sabotage from food importers.

...

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:57 pm

CarmelaSara;1522117 wrote: The Bible is a book..historical fiction, wouldnâ€™t you agree?

â€œ...different books of the Bible are written as different genres, some history, some poetry, some prophecy, some correspondence. Can you say a poem is fact or fiction? Then you have Jesus whose favorite teaching style was using parables (stories) to teach lessons. For example, when Jesus told the story of the prodigal son, all the characters in that story are obviously made up, but the point was to convey a deeper meaning, not create a historical record, so would a parable be fact or fiction? In that case, I would say itâ€™s bothâ€¦a fictitious story that communicates a factual truth about life.â€

No, I would not agree. The Bible is historical fact. Different genres to address different aspects of life, yes I can agree with that. Is a poem fact? When it addresses a fact of information it is a fact. When it addresses what true romance is, it is a fact. Song of Solomon isn't meant to be a book of facts, it is meant to be a romantic book of love between a man and a woman. Yes Jesus Christ was the perfect teacher. I guess being smart enough to create all things would give Him more wisdom on how to teach than anyone else. Wouldn't you agree? While it is still possible that the prodigal son story was fictional, that was not the purpose of the story, yes it was to convey a deeper meaning. None of your points support your claim that the Bible is historical fiction. The Bible is mostly history with other things included, but it is still 100% perfect and God's word.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:21 pm

Fuzzy;1522121 wrote: You left out 'some bull****'

Actually, I'd say the bible is pretty close to 100% bull****.

But that's just my opinion.

The Bible is an amazing work of God Himself. Man could not have written it, yes it was penned by men, but God inspired it.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:10 pm

"Love Thy Neighbour".

"Build a wall & make the neighbours pay for it".

"Come unto me all ye that labour & are heavy laden".

"Ban all Muslims & Mexicans"

"The Labourer is worthy of his hire".

"No Government worker gets paid until I get the money for my wall"

The list of hypocrisies goes on.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:05 am

FourPart;1522182 wrote: "Love Thy Neighbour".

"Build a wall & make the neighbours pay for it".

"Come unto me all ye that labour & are heavy laden".

"Ban all Muslims & Mexicans"

"The Labourer is worthy of his hire".

"No Government worker gets paid until I get the money for my wall"

The list of hypocrisies goes on.

When will it end?

Donald Trump has announced that now heâ€™s President heâ€™s going to ban the sale of pre-shredded cheese.

He wants to make America grate again.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:09 am

LarsMac;1522125 wrote: You are certainly welcome to your opinion.

But, actually, if you put away your animosity for a moment, you might find an appreciation for the Lore, and the poetry, just like the mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse, or the tales of Aesop and Homer.

It can be fascinating reading.And that's your opinion which you are welcome to. Perhaps his is conviction and not animosity.

Why would anyone who can appreciate good writing waste it on the Christian bible when there's a wealth of material so much better than it to be had and could take a lifetime to read? You may be able to point out a decent prose or paragraph or sentence in the bible here or there but to suggest it's worth reading in its entirety for those rare nuggets to be seen seems to be a complete waste of time to me. Advocating for others to do that is worse still and reveals a lack of appreciation for the really good stuff.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:54 am

Ahso!;1522193 wrote: And that's your opinion which you are welcome to. Perhaps his is conviction and not animosity.

Why would anyone who can appreciate good writing waste it on the Christian bible when there's a wealth of material so much better than it to be had and could take a lifetime to read? You may be able to point out a decent prose or paragraph or sentence in the bible here or there but to suggest it's worth reading in its entirety for those rare nuggets to be seen seems to be a complete waste of time to me. Advocating for others to do that is worse still and reveals a lack of appreciation for the really good stuff.

Oh, hell, no! I would not at all recommend reading the whole thing for an appreciation of the poetry.

But there are several of the Old Testament books that are worth a little of a reader's time. And some of the letters in the New are very interesting, as well.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:33 pm

Have you considered a "Beautiful Writings of the Bible" thread to inform those of us who might need to know?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:20 pm

FourPart;1522182 wrote: "Love Thy Neighbour".

"Build a wall & make the neighbours pay for it".

"Come unto me all ye that labour & are heavy laden".

"Ban all Muslims & Mexicans"

"The Labourer is worthy of his hire".

"No Government worker gets paid until I get the money for my wall"

The list of hypocrisies goes on.

1) You mean the wall that Democrats voted to build in 2006 and no one complained? That hateful wall? Does it bother you that they voted for it? What about the 30% wall at the border that the Democrats did build. Why aren't you calling for anyone to tear down that hateful wall built by Democrats? Build the wall is not hateful. China has a wall and it's worked quite well. Jerusalem built one and now terrorist attacks are next to zero. The Vatican has a wall around it. In the Bible the Lord commanded the Jews to build walls, so yes walls are in accordance with God, Love and the Bible. Isn't the US supposed to protect it's citizens like every other nation?

2) First of all, Those two sentence are unrelated. Trump misspoke when he said "muslim ban" the one time he said it. He corrected himself and only wanted to ban immigrants from the 7 nations named by Obama that were infiltrated by ISIS. 7 muslim nations out of 50 isn't a muslim ban. Trump never said ban all Mexicans. He wants to build a wall to keep out ILLEGAL aliens. Do you know the difference between an Illegal alien and a legal one? All other countries don't allow illegals, why should the US?

3) Trump paid the workers. He took money out of a fund to pay them and then Pelosi and Schumer utterly refused to negotiate with him about re-opening the Government. Instead, they went on vacation in Hawaii while Trump cancelled his and worked. Also, once the Government re-opens, all back pay will go to the workers anyway. Pelosi was the cry baby folding her arms and shutting down the Government, refusing to negotiate. Trump was the bigger man and opened it for 3 weeks so the workers could get paid. But don't worry, he is gonna call a National Emergency and build the wall anyway.

Yes, the list does go on, from the Democrats. Like how they just legalized abortion through all 9 months of pregnancy and now they are talking about legislation to allow killing babies after they are born.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:46 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1522214 wrote: 1) You mean the wall that Democrats voted to build in 2006 and no one complained? That hateful wall? Does it bother you that they voted for it? What about the 30% wall at the border that the Democrats did build. Why aren't you calling for anyone to tear down that hateful wall built by Democrats? Build the wall is not hateful. China has a wall and it's worked quite well. Jerusalem built one and now terrorist attacks are next to zero. The Vatican has a wall around it. In the Bible the Lord commanded the Jews to build walls, so yes walls are in accordance with God, Love and the Bible. Isn't the US supposed to protect it's citizens like every other nation?

2) First of all, Those two sentence are unrelated. Trump misspoke when he said "muslim ban" the one time he said it. He corrected himself and only wanted to ban immigrants from the 7 nations named by Obama that were infiltrated by ISIS. 7 muslim nations out of 50 isn't a muslim ban. Trump never said ban all Mexicans. He wants to build a wall to keep out ILLEGAL aliens. Do you know the difference between an Illegal alien and a legal one? All other countries don't allow illegals, why should the US?

3) Trump paid the workers. He took money out of a fund to pay them and then Pelosi and Schumer utterly refused to negotiate with him about re-opening the Government. Instead, they went on vacation in Hawaii while Trump cancelled his and worked. Also, once the Government re-opens, all back pay will go to the workers anyway. Pelosi was the cry baby folding her arms and shutting down the Government, refusing to negotiate. Trump was the bigger man and opened it for 3 weeks so the workers could get paid. But don't worry, he is gonna call a National Emergency and build the wall anyway.

Yes, the list does go on, from the Democrats. Like how they just legalized abortion through all 9 months of pregnancy and now they are talking about legislation to allow killing babies after they are born.

What a fantasy you live in.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:49 pm

LarsMac;1522216 wrote: What a fantasy you live in.

What did I say that isn't true? Anytime you are faced with the truth you run and hide behind statements like this. The Democrats voted for the same wall in 2006! They built 700 miles of it and no other Democrats complained. Were walls immoral in 2006? Or are they just immoral now that Trump is President and wants them?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:43 pm

Note that Trump made an exception to Saudi Arabia in his ban. The primary supporter of ISIS. The direct supplier of funds & arms to ISIS. I wonder why? It couldn't be because of all the Golf Clubs he owns there, now could it?

Biblical Walls? What about the Trumpets Blowing, and the walls coming tumbling down?

Berlin had a wall. Look what happened to that.

Trump is out & out Racist. There is no question about that. He is officially endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan. He constantly makes claims about all the drugs in America coming in through the Mexican border, when the facts prove that the vast majority of drugs come in through other more direct routes - mainly through international airports & by ship. He also makes out about the level of crime by illegal immigrants, when the statistics show that they are far less likely to commit crimes. After all, just how many illegal immigrants have been known to commit the mass shootings which are so commonplace in America?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:28 pm

FourPart;1522275 wrote: Note that Trump made an exception to Saudi Arabia in his ban. The primary supporter of ISIS. The direct supplier of funds & arms to ISIS. I wonder why? It couldn't be because of all the Golf Clubs he owns there, now could it?

Biblical Walls? What about the Trumpets Blowing, and the walls coming tumbling down?

Berlin had a wall. Look what happened to that.

Trump is out & out Racist. There is no question about that. He is officially endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan. He constantly makes claims about all the drugs in America coming in through the Mexican border, when the facts prove that the vast majority of drugs come in through other more direct routes - mainly through international airports & by ship. He also makes out about the level of crime by illegal immigrants, when the statistics show that they are far less likely to commit crimes. After all, just how many illegal immigrants have been known to commit the mass shootings which are so commonplace in America?

I notice that Trump used Obama's ban list as his list of 7 out of 54 muslim nations that he banned travel because ISIS was such an issue. So your issue is really with Obama because Obama made the list. Perhaps Saudi Arabia was left off for political reasons, oh well. I wouldn't think it's because of golf that he would leave them off, but they are our biggest ally of the muslim nations against terrorism and for trade.

Yeah trumpets blew down one of the many walls in the Bible, but what about the many walls that God commanded His people to build for protection?

Yes they tore the Berlin wall down to allow people to pass, not to keep them out. You've made my point.

Question: Do you know the difference between an illegal alien and a legal alien? Because Trump has no problem with legal aliens or immigrants.

Trump isn't a racist. He also never said that ALL of the drugs in America are coming from Mexico, but most of them are. 90% of the heroin that reaches the US comes from Mexico. Trump gets his info from CIA, FBI and other sources that know a lot more than you do. Stop right there, no illegal immigrants do commit a much higher crime rate than legal immigrants and the general population of the US. The studies that have been done unfortunately lump the illegal aliens and the legal (law abiding) aliens together to make it look like they commit less crime when that's not true. Legal aliens actually commit less crime than the general population because they are the law abiding people who come in the correct way. Illegal aliens murder thousands of Americans per year and many other crimes.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:15 pm

Ahso!;1522202 wrote: Have you considered a "Beautiful Writings of the Bible" thread to inform those of us who might need to know?

Where is that thread located?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:47 pm

LarsMac;1522216 wrote: What a fantasy you live in.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.