How To Get To Heaven When You Die

sugarpuff · Post by **sugarpuff** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:22 am

Fuzzy;1516864 wrote: Because it is the only way to deal with religionists. You just can't have a logical conversation with idiots.

Want a bet !!!! lol

You talk to me .. and our conversations are logical ???? lol

Fuzzy you better start loving thy neighbor .. or you won't be going to heaven ...

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm

Fuzzy;1516864 wrote: Because it is the only way to deal with religionists. You just can't have a logical conversation with idiots.

You aren't making sense. The facts that Pahu presents are just that..facts. Just because you don't like them doesn't make him an idiot. Honestly, it makes you look bad because rather than countering his argument, you just call him stupid or an idiot. It shows that you can't counter his argument so you have to result in insults. If Pahu is so dumb, then why can't you counter what he is saying with evidence rather than insults?

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:19 pm

sugarpuff;1516872 wrote: Want a bet !!!! lol

You talk to me .. and our conversations are logical ???? lol

Fuzzy you better start loving thy neighbor .. or you won't be going to heaven ...

I do. She's quite nice.:wah:

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1516900 wrote: You aren't making sense. The facts that Pahu presents are just that..facts. Just because you don't like them doesn't make him an idiot. Honestly, it makes you look bad because rather than countering his argument, you just call him stupid or an idiot. It shows that you can't counter his argument so you have to result in insults. If Pahu is so dumb, then why can't you counter what he is saying with evidence rather than insults?

What do you counter nonsense with. How can you possibly disprove something which does not exist?

Can you disprove Santa Clause? How would you attempt to disprove Santa Clause if I told you that he exists?

Why can't you see through all this religious nonsense?

I already know your answer:"It's not nonsense, it is fact!"

Your favorite phrase, isn't it? But to call something a fact doesn't necessarily make it so.

People like Pahu and also certain American Evangelists are very good with words. It makes people like you believe their lies.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:47 am

xfrodobagginsx;1516900 wrote: You aren't making sense. The facts that Pahu presents are just that..facts.How can you know this when you know nothing about The Theory of Evolution?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:01 pm

What Pahu presents are interpretations of interpretations of reality but they are not facts. The Bible is itself an interpretation of interpretations of interpretations. There is precious little history in the Bible.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:20 pm

Fuzzy;1516902 wrote: What do you counter nonsense with. How can you possibly disprove something which does not exist?

Can you disprove Santa Clause? How would you attempt to disprove Santa Clause if I told you that he exists?

Why can't you see through all this religious nonsense?

I already know your answer:"It's not nonsense, it is fact!"

Your favorite phrase, isn't it? But to call something a fact doesn't necessarily make it so.

People like Pahu and also certain American Evangelists are very good with words. It makes people like you believe their lies.

If someone presents you with a fact, you can't just pull out the "Nonesense" card and ignore the fact because you don't like it. I am not asking you to disprove God's existence. I am saying that if the facts are presented to you that show that He DOES exist, you are not allowed to just dismiss them because you don't want them to be true. Address them and show why they are false.

Let's take an example here. Here is a fact. Jesus Christ's existence is supported by the writings of the Historians of His day and Early Historians. I can quote you dozens of Historical writings. You can't simply claim "Not Facts" to these historical writings. These are legitimate historical writings. It's on YOU to either show that these are not legitimately historical writings OR agree that they are indeed historical writings. You can't just dismiss them and have no reason. But that's what's happening here with everything that's presented that those here on the other side of the fence don't like.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:41 am

xfrodobagginsx;1516989 wrote: If someone presents you with a fact, you can't just pull out the "Nonesense" card and ignore the fact because you don't like it. I am not asking you to disprove God's existence. I am saying that if the facts are presented to you that show that He DOES exist, you are not allowed to just dismiss them because you don't want them to be true. Address them and show why they are false.

Let's take an example here. Here is a fact. Jesus Christ's existence is supported by the writings of the Historians of His day and Early Historians. I can quote you dozens of Historical writings. You can't simply claim "Not Facts" to these historical writings. These are legitimate historical writings. It's on YOU to either show that these are not legitimately historical writings OR agree that they are indeed historical writings. You can't just dismiss them and have no reason. But that's what's happening here with everything that's presented that those here on the other side of the fence don't like.

You have not presented me with any facts whatsoever. All you ever do is quote the bible, you tube videos, historical writings and other articles which suit you to make your point.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:40 am

Ahso!;1516905 wrote: How can you know this when you know nothing about The Theory of Evolution?

How do you know that I know nothing about the "Theory" of Evolution? Maybe I went to public schools all of my life and took Biology, Astronomy, Physics and other classes which pushed it. Maybe I went to College and took Biology, Ethology, Psychology and other classes which also pushed it. I watch TV which pushes it. You really think that I don't know anything about it? The issue is that I ALSO know the other side of the story, which 99% of people do not. It's pretty hard to believe the other side of the story, when you don't know that other side of the story now isn't it? If you go into a court case and only hear the prosecutors side of the story, it's gonna be pretty compelling because he is only going to tell you the evidence that makes the person on trial look guilty. But after cross examination from the Defenses Attorney, he brings out additional information that wasn't told by the prosecution and also discredits bogus assertions by the Prosecutor, by the end you see that the Defense was actually telling the real story, not the Prosecutor. How many people would be found guilty of only the Prosecutor was allowed to tell his side of the story? That's how it is with the evolution side of the story.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:12 am

xfrodobagginsx;1517037 wrote: How do you know that I know nothing about the "Theory" of Evolution? Because posts like this one and the rest you type reveal it. Your quotes around the word "theory" is a dead giveaway too.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:30 pm

Pahu is presenting interpretations and of course so are the pro evolutionists. However one has to look at all sides of the story and then they come up with an interpretation. The Bible itself is a book of interpretations of interpretations of interpretations etc . Some try to prove their interpretation is correct and others look at the evidence and try to explain it. That is why I prefer the research of and agnostic or atheist archaeologist over any archaeologist whose real desire is to make the evidence fit his theory.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:01 pm

It seems to me that what we are getting here are simply interpretations. Many if not all of my statements are interpretations as well.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:05 pm

More interpretation.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:58 pm

Ahso!;1517039 wrote: Because posts like this one and the rest you type reveal it. Your quotes around the word "theory" is a dead giveaway too.

My reason for putting the word theory and quotes is to demonstrate to you that it is in fact a theory and is not proven. For many it is a religion.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:14 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1517126 wrote: My reason for putting the word theory and quotes is to demonstrate to you that it is in fact a theory and is not proven. For many it is a religion.Like I said you know nothing about Evolution or what a theory is either.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:41 pm

Ted;1517062 wrote: Pahu is presenting interpretations and of course so are the pro evolutionists. However one has to look at all sides of the story and then they come up with an interpretation. The Bible itself is a book of interpretations of interpretations of interpretations etc . Some try to prove their interpretation is correct and others look at the evidence and try to explain it. That is why I prefer the research of and agnostic or atheist archaeologist over any archaeologist whose real desire is to make the evidence fit his theory.

I agreed with you until you said that the Bible was a book of interpretations. It's not. It's a God inspired historical book. The history is of creation of all things, establishment of a chosen nation, Messiah ascending from that nation to save mankind from their sins, the one world Government that the Anti Christ will take charge of, Christ returns, rules and reigns for 1000 years, satan released from prison for a time temps man once more and then the Battle of Armageddon where satan is destroyed once and for all. The Great white throne judgement where the unsaved are judge and then Christ will rule and reign with His Church for eternity.

The research of an agnostic or atheist is going to be biased as much as any Christian who is an archaeologist might be. All men have a propensity to see things through the lens of their particular world view.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:27 am

Ted;1517066 wrote: It seems to me that what we are getting here are simply interpretations. Many if not all of my statements are interpretations as well.

I would agree that creation scientists and evolutionists look at the same evidence yet draw different conclusions than each other. But the evidence is still evidence. You can't dismiss the evidence and call it fake because you don't have an explanation, yet that's what many here are doing and what most leftists do.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:04 pm

Xfrod you interpret the Bible every time you read it. The writers interpreted events that happened. The Bible is an interpretation of an interpretation At least I get an honest open properly studied peer reviewed work done by writers who seek only the truth and not trying to make the evidence fit a preconceived hypothesis.

As far as the rest of your posts: May God protect us from such nonsense. .

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:44 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1517157 wrote: I would agree that creation scientists and evolutionists look at the same evidence yet draw different conclusions than each other. But the evidence is still evidence. You can't dismiss the evidence and call it fake because you don't have an explanation, yet that's what many here are doing and what most leftists do.

They're not calling it fake they are simply saying there is not enough to reach a concluscion.

It's like you can't explain thunder and lightning so it must be the gods fighting each other, that was OK in the stone age to just believe in god because you can't explain something is just silly. Instead of being able to accept you are unable to explain something you create the god of the gaps. You can't explain something so god must have done it, it is fantasy.

I agreed with you until you said that the Bible was a book of interpretations. It's not. It's a God inspired historical book. The history is of creation of all things, establishment of a chosen nation, Messiah ascending from that nation to save mankind from their sins, the one world Government that the Anti Christ will take charge of, Christ returns, rules and reigns for 1000 years, satan released from prison for a time temps man once more and then the Battle of Armageddon where satan is destroyed once and for all. The Great white throne judgement where the unsaved are judge and then Christ will rule and reign with His Church for eternity.

Then your god is at best vindictive and capricious at worst he is insane. Just out of curiosity do you believe in the holy trinity?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:16 pm

Ted;1517067 wrote: More interpretation.

Why the obsession with the word interpretation?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:16 am

xfrodobagginsx;1517179 wrote: Why the obsession with the word interpretation?
He does that often when he hears or reads something new. Sort of like how you obsess over everything God.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:45 am

It is not an obsession it is simply the fact.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:10 pm

Ted;1517200 wrote: It is not an obsession it is simply the fact.Yes, the fact is that you obsess.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Ahso!;1517128 wrote: Like I said you know nothing about Evolution or what a theory is either.

False. I know a lot about it. I learned about it all through School and in College. It is you who doesn't know anything about Creation Science.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:34 pm

Ted;1517160 wrote: Xfrod you interpret the Bible every time you read it. The writers interpreted events that happened. The Bible is an interpretation of an interpretation At least I get an honest open properly studied peer reviewed work done by writers who seek only the truth and not trying to make the evidence fit a preconceived hypothesis.

As far as the rest of your posts: May God protect us from such nonsense. .

Yes, but you can't just interpret it any way you want. You have to take it for what it actually says. People who don't want to believe the Bible like to "Interpret" it to fit what they wish were the truth rather than believing it for what it actually says. Your way of thinking is the none sense.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:59 pm

One of my professors at VST was a Jewish scholar and rabbi. He told us that there is no one correct interpretation of anything in the Bible. A section can have multiple valid interpretations. That is the nature of Jewish writing and midrash. Now since it was the Jews who wrote the OT and the NT it seems to me that they ought to know what they are talking about. So much for modern fundamentalist errors.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:10 pm

gmc;1517162 wrote: They're not calling it fake they are simply saying there is not enough to reach a concluscion.

It's like you can't explain thunder and lightning so it must be the gods fighting each other, that was OK in the stone age to just believe in god because you can't explain something is just silly. Instead of being able to accept you are unable to explain something you create the god of the gaps. You can't explain something so god must have done it, it is fantasy.

Then your god is at best vindictive and capricious at worst he is insane. Just out of curiosity do you believe in the holy trinity?

Actually that's not true. They aren't even looking at the evidence and are calling it fake. The evidence that I am presenting supports the Bible, it's not like an empty explanation like thunder and lightning. The thing that has gaps is Darwinian evolution, but you don't seem to notice that. My God is not vindictive, He is unpredictable unless He specifies otherwise you cannot predict what He will do, that is true, otherwise He wouldn't be God if you could understand Him. Of course I believe in the Holy Trinity. It's Biblical.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:07 pm

Ahso!;1517197 wrote: He does that often when he hears or reads something new. Sort of like how you obsess over everything God.

The difference is that God isn't new to me, but He is very real to me. He has directly changed the course of my life on many occasions. He has spoken to me in various ways including audibly. He has performed miracles on my family. When I am on my death bed I don't want to have any regrets.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:24 pm

Ted;1517200 wrote: It is not an obsession it is simply the fact.

Sounds more like an obsession to me.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:41 pm

Ted;1517240 wrote: One of my professors at VST was a Jewish scholar and rabbi. He told us that there is no one correct interpretation of anything in the Bible. A section can have multiple valid interpretations. That is the nature of Jewish writing and midrash. Now since it was the Jews who wrote the OT and the NT it seems to me that they ought to know what they are talking about. So much for modern fundamentalist errors.

Your professor doesn't know what he's talking about if he said that. There may be places where the wording is vague, however, if you compare scripture with scripture, you should be able to come up with the correct one. Sometimes things aren't revealed until hundreds of years later or even longer. Hundreds of OT prophecies weren't revealed until hundreds of years later after Christ came. Midrash didn't come around until 200 AD. The Bible was completed by 90 AD so it's not Midrash as we have talked about many times. Sometimes it is veiled because God doesn't want us to understand it until His time. Revelation would be a good example. The Jews wrote it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Since the Jews reject their Messiah, they don't have that guidence unless they individually accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. Most don't at this time, but in the future, all of Israel will accept Christ as Messiah. That's the reason that Paul was able to spread the gospel to the Gentiles because they rejected their Messiah. Modern Fundamentalists are the ones filled with the Holy Spirit at this time because they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, therefore, they have the guidence of Him to show them the truth.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. {blindness: or, hardness}

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:20 am

I agreed with you until you said that the Bible was a book of interpretations. It's not. It's a God inspired historical book. The history is of creation of all things, establishment of a chosen nation, Messiah ascending from that nation to save mankind from their sins, the one world Government that the Anti Christ will take charge of, Christ returns, rules and reigns for 1000 years, satan released from prison for a time temps man once more and then the Battle of Armageddon where satan is destroyed once and for all. The Great white throne judgement where the unsaved are judge and then Christ will rule and reign with His Church for eternity.

How come no mention is made of what we now call the american continent? Presumably god knew about it did he just not mention it ir did those god inspired writers not listen.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:48 pm

gmc;1517274 wrote: How come no mention is made of what we now call the american continent? Presumably god knew about it did he just not mention it ir did those god inspired writers not listen.

This is a prophecy of either the Battle of Gog and Magog (Moscow, now Russia):

The Merchants of Tarshish is a reference to Great Britain. The Young Lions are the young nations (Canada, USA) that came out of Tarshish (Great Britain):

Eze 38:13 Sheba and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all their young lions, shall say to you, Have you come to take a spoil? Have you gathered your company to steal a prize, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

That's one that I know of off hand. Also, there are hundreds of prophecies of His first coming fulfilled in the New Testament that were predicted to happen hundreds of years before they did in the Old Testament.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:42 am

xfrodobagginsx;1517295 wrote: This is a prophecy of either the Battle of Gog and Magog (Moscow, now Russia):

The Merchants of Tarshish is a reference to Great Britain. The Young Lions are the young nations (Canada, USA) that came out of Tarshish (Great Britain):

Eze 38:13 Sheba and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all their young lions, shall say to you, Have you come to take a spoil? Have you gathered your company to steal a prize, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

That's one that I know of off hand. Also, there are hundreds of prophecies of His first coming fulfilled in the New Testament that were predicted to happen hundreds of years before they did in the Old Testament.

On other words there isn't unless you come up with a convoluted interpretation of the bible in retrospect.

A prophecy is not a prophecy unless it is stated clearly beforehand and it and then actually happens. Those early explorers weren't following bible prophecies they were trying to get to india and china which they already knew about, they had no idea the american continent existed and finding a prophecy after diligent searching later on does not make it an actual prophecy.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

gmc;1517298 wrote: On other words there isn't unless you come up with a convoluted interpretation of the bible in retrospect.

A prophecy is not a prophecy unless it is stated clearly beforehand and it and then actually happens. Those early explorers weren't following bible prophecies they were trying to get to india and china which they already knew about, they had no idea the american continent existed and finding a prophecy after diligent searching later on does not make it an actual prophecy.

It's not convoluted. It's pretty simple to understand that there was no Country of England or United States at that time. At that time England was known as Tarshish or the Merchants of Tarshish. The young lions theorof are the young Countries that came out of it. It's not that hard to understand. It's not gonna say "America will be discovered in the future and it will have countries that will team up with the British during the battle of Moscow, Russia. Not all prophecies are that clear. There are hundreds of prophecies of Christ that are quite clear that were written hundreds of years before His birth. Why don't they impress you? Also, if what you said is correct, how would you explain where it says "The Merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions therof" means? You don't think that the Scholars know that at that time Tarshish was Britain and what do you really think that the young lions of Tarshish represent? Which Country was it that controlled the United States and Canada before the Revolutionary war? A 200 year old nation is quite young in the timeline of history wouldn't you say?

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:32 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1517316 wrote: It's not convoluted. It's pretty simple to understand that there was no Country of England or United States at that time. At that time England was known as Tarshish or the Merchants of Tarshish. The young lions theorof are the young Countries that came out of it. It's not that hard to understand. It's not gonna say "America will be discovered in the future and it will have countries that will team up with the British during the battle of Moscow, Russia. Not all prophecies are that clear. There are hundreds of prophecies of Christ that are quite clear that were written hundreds of years before His birth. Why don't they impress you? Also, if what you said is correct, how would you explain where it says "The Merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions therof" means? You don't think that the Scholars know that at that time Tarshish was Britain and what do you really think that the young lions of Tarshish represent? Which Country was it that controlled the United States and Canada before the Revolutionary war? A 200 year old nation is quite young in the timeline of history wouldn't you say?

Where in blazes did you come up with that nonsense?

I really want know.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:20 pm

According to scholars prophesies wee about their own time and not some distant time in the future. They experienced Jesus and decided he must be the Massiah. Thus they went back to the OT to find things that seemed to fit the situation and that is how they wrote the NT. "That the prophesy might be fulfilled" In other words the stories of Jesus life and times was written up after their experience of Jesus. So they used the OT to write up the Jesus story.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:39 pm

LarsMac;1517321 wrote: Where in blazes did you come up with that nonsense?

I really want know.

Bible Scholars and The Bible. What part of what I said, do you disagree with? It is a prophecy of the future that hasn't happened yet and it was written before the birth of Christ. Are you saying that the Merchants of Tarshish isn't talking about Great Britain? Or are you saying that the young lions thereof isn't referring to the young nations that came out of Great Britain?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:13 am

xfrodobagginsx;1517316 wrote: It's not convoluted. It's pretty simple to understand that there was no Country of England or United States at that time. At that time England was known as Tarshish or the Merchants of Tarshish. The young lions theorof are the young Countries that came out of it. It's not that hard to understand. It's not gonna say "America will be discovered in the future and it will have countries that will team up with the British during the battle of Moscow, Russia. Not all prophecies are that clear. There are hundreds of prophecies of Christ that are quite clear that were written hundreds of years before His birth. Why don't they impress you? Also, if what you said is correct, how would you explain where it says "The Merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions therof" means? You don't think that the Scholars know that at that time Tarshish was Britain and what do you really think that the young lions of Tarshish represent? Which Country was it that controlled the United States and Canada before the Revolutionary war? A 200 year old nation is quite young in the timeline of history wouldn't you say?

If it's not clear beforehand and to all then it's not a prophecy no matter much you want to kid yourself. Why is there no prediction that the jews wouild get the blame for killing the messiah and be persecuted by the followers of the new religion (culminating in the holocaust) started by his son? Or if you prefer the holy trinity of the three in one the religion started by himself. Did he not know that would happen?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:57 pm

Ted;1517378 wrote: According to scholars prophesies wee about their own time and not some distant time in the future. They experienced Jesus and decided he must be the Massiah. Thus they went back to the OT to find things that seemed to fit the situation and that is how they wrote the NT. "That the prophesy might be fulfilled" In other words the stories of Jesus life and times was written up after their experience of Jesus. So they used the OT to write up the Jesus story.

Wrong. No credible scholar could believe that way whether Jewish or Christian. All of the prophecies in scripture point to one person, Christ and are distant future from when they were written. The Jews don't believe that these prophecies have been fulfilled yet and the Christians believe that many of them have been in His first coming and many more will be fulfilled in His second coming. The confusion for the Jews comes because they think all of these would have fulfilled in His first coming, but they weren't because of their rejection of them.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:34 pm

Xfrod that is pure nonsense. Interpretations after interpretations.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Xfrod Sorry but I study under very credible scholars. I do think that some folks are so concerned about saving their own soul they are so heavenly bound they are of no use use on earth. In fact two of the scholars I enjoy are the preeminent Jesus scholars on earth and recognized by all the credible scholars.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:55 pm

Just reading a book by Bart Ehrman a Biblical historian titles "How Jesus became God". It is a short history of the Christian faith and what I have leaned from this text and many others is that the Christian church of today in no way represents the Church of the Apostles. The Closest church to the church of the apostles is the Greek Orthodox church.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:36 am

gmc;1517407 wrote: If it's not clear beforehand and to all then it's not a prophecy no matter much you want to kid yourself. Why is there no prediction that the jews wouild get the blame for killing the messiah and be persecuted by the followers of the new religion (culminating in the holocaust) started by his son? Or if you prefer the holy trinity of the three in one the religion started by himself. Did he not know that would happen?

Are you kidding me? Look at this extensive list below. How do you think that Herod knew where and when Jesus was born? Because of Bible prophecy. Look at the list I gave and then come back to me.

The bible was written through 40 men in 3 languages over a 1,500 year period. These men lived in different parts of the world, some were rich, some were poor, some were educated, some were not, most didn't know each other, many of them didnâ€™t have access to the other's writings and yet it fits together as if it were written by one person, because it was inspired by God. It has no true errors or contradictions. There are countless prophecies which have been predicted and fulfilled perfectly in scripture. Many of these prophecies were written hundreds or even thousands of years before they were fulfilled.

The Predictions that Jesus fulfilled in His coming were in the hundreds. The verse on the left is the prediction written hundreds of years before He came and the verse on the right is where it was fulfilled in Jesus Christâ€™s actual coming hundreds of years later as testified by the actual eyewitnesses. It is impossible that He is not Messiah, Savior of the world. The ONLY person...past, present or future...who could fulfill all these prophecies is Jesus Christ

Fulfilled Prophecy Tenakh/Hebrew

Scripture New Testament

Micah 5:2 His pre-existence John 1:1, 14

Genesis 3:15 Born of the seed of a woman Matthew 1:18

Genesis 12:3 Of the seed of Abraham Matthew 1:1-16

Genesis 12:3 All nations blessed by Abraham's seed Matthew 8:5, 10

Genesis 22:8 God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering John 1:29

Genesis 49:10 From the tribe of Judah Matthew 1:1-3

Isaiah 9:6-7 Heir to the throne of David Matthew 1:1

Isaiah 9:6 Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" Matthew 1:23

Micah 5:2 Born in Bethlehem Matthew 2:1

Isaiah 7:14 Born of a virgin Matthew 1:18

Isaiah 7:14 His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Matthew 1:23

Psalm 2:7 Declared to be the Son of God Matthew 3:17

Malachi 4:5-6 His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah Luke 1:17

Malachi 3:1 Preceded by a messenger to prepare His way Matthew 11:7-11

Isaiah 40:3 Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" Matthew 3:3

Deuteronomy 18:15 Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel Matthew 2:15

Hosea 11:1 Called out of Egypt Matthew 2:15

Jeremiah 31:15 Slaughter of the children Matthew2:18

Judges 13:5;Amos 2:11;Lam. 4:7 Would be a Nazarene Matthew 2:23

Isaiah 9:1-2 Brought light to Zabulon & Nephthalm, Galilee of the Gentiles Matthew 4:15

Psalm 72:10 Presented with gifts Matthew 2:1, 11

Isaiah 53:3 Rejected by His own Matthew 21:42; Mark 8:31,12:10; Luke 9:22,17:25 Psalm 118:22-23;

Isaiah 28:16He is the stone which the builders rejected which became the headstone Matthew 21:42; IPeter 2:7

Isaiah 8:14-15 A stone of stumbling to Israel I Peter 2:8

Zechariah 9:9 He entered Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass Matthew 21:5

Psalms 41:9 Betrayed by a friend John 13:21

Zechariah 11:12 Sold for 30 pieces of silver Matthew 26:15; Luke 22:5

Zechariah 11:12 The 30 pieces of silver given for the potter's field Matthew 27:9-10

Zechariah 11:13 The 30 pieces of silver thrown in the temple Matthew 27:5

Zechariah 13:7 Forsaken by His disciples Matthew 26:56

Psalm 35:11 Accused by false witnesses Matthew 26:60

Isaiah 53:7 Silent to accusations Matthew 27:14

Isaiah 35:5-6 Isaiah 29:18 Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb; Matthew 11:5

Isaiah 61:Preached to the poor/brokenhearted/captives 1 Matthew 11:5

Micah 7:6 Came to bring a sword, not peace Matthew 10:34-35

Isaiah 53:4 He bore our sickness Matthew 8:16-17

Isaiah 50:6, 53:5 Spat upon, smitten and scourged Matthew 27:26, 30

Micah 5:1 Smitten on the cheek Matthew 27:30

Psalm 35:19 Hated without a cause Matthew 27:23

Isaiah 53:5 The sacrificial lamb John 1:29

Isaiah 42:6;Jeremiah 31:31-34Given for a covenant Romans 11:27/Galatians 3:17, 4:24/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10; 10:16, 29; 12:24; 13:20

Isaiah 42:2-3 Would not strive or cry Mark 7:36

Isaiah 6:9-10 People would hear not and see not Matthew 13:14-15

Isaiah 29:13 People trust in traditions of men Matthew 15:9

Isaiah 29:13 People give God lip service Matthew 15:8

Isaiah 42:1 God delights in Him Matthew 3:17, 17:5

Isaiah 53:5 Wounded for our sins John 6:51

Isaiah 53:10-12 He bore the sins of many Mark 10:45

Daniel 9:26 Messiah not killed for Himself Matthew 20:28

Isaiah 55:5, 60:3,65:1; Malachi1:11;II Samuel 22:44-45; Psalm 2:7-8Gentiles flock to Him

Matthew 8:10

Isaiah 53:12 Crucified with criminals Matthew 27:35

Zechariah 12:10; His body was pierced Ps. 22:16 John 20:25, 27

Psalm 22:16 Thirsty during execution John 19:28

Psalm 69:21 Given vinegar and gall for thirst Matthew 27:34

Psalm 22:18 Soldiers gambled for his garment Matthew 27:35

Psalm 22:7-8 People mocked, "He trusted in God, let Him deliver him!" Matthew 27:43

Psalm 22:17 People sat there looking at Him Matthew 27:36

Psalm 22:1 Cried, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

Amos 8:9 Darkness over the land Matthew 27:45

Psalm 34:20, Numbers 9:12 No bones broken John 19:33-36

Zechariah 12:10 Side pierced John 19:34

Isaiah 53:9 Buried with the rich Matthew 27:57, 60

Psalm 16:10-11; 49:15 Resurrected from the dead Mark 16:6

Psalm 110:4 Priest after the order of Melchizedek Hebrews 5:5-6; 6:20; 7:15-17

Psalm 68:18 Ascended to right hand of God Luke 24:51

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto Him, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make

thine enemies thy footstool Matt 22:44; Mark 12:36;, 16:19; Luke 20:42-43;

Acts 2:34-35; Hebrews 1:13

His coming glory Malachi 3:2-3 Luke 3:17

324 Messianic Prophecies

Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan's head.....Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18

Gen. 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated....Mk. 6:19

Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Lu.

3:36

Gen. 12:3...As Abraham's seed,will bless all nations...Acts.

3:25,26

Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham's Seed...Gal. 3:16

Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Heb. 6:20

Gen. 14:18........A King also........Heb. 7:2

Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Mt. 26:26-29

Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Rom. 9:7

Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...Jn. 1:29

Gen. 22:18...As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations...Gal. 3:16

Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the

Redeemer..Heb.11:18

Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4

Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33

Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3

Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52

Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn.

10:16

Ex. 3:13,14........The Great "I Am".......Jn. 4:26

Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19

Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8

Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5;7

Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36

Ex. 15:2...His exaltation predicted as Yeshua...Acts 7:55,56

Ex. 15:11...His Character-Holiness...Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27

Ex. 17:6...The Spiritual Rock of Israel...1 Cor. 10;4

Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72

Lev.14:11..The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14;

Acts 6:7

Lev.16:15-17...Prefigures Christ's once-for-all death...Heb. 9:7-14

Lev.16:27...Suffering outside the Camp...Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11,

12

Lev.17:11...The Blood-the life of the flesh...Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45

Lev.17:11...It is the blood that makes atonement...1 Jn. 3:14-18

Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst." ..Jn.

19:31-36

Num. 9:12...Not a bone of Him broken...John 19:31-36

Num. 21:9...The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up...Jn. 3:14-18

Num. 24:17...Time: "I shall see him, but not now."...Gal. 4:4

Deut. 18:15..."This is of a truth that prophet."...Jn. 6:14

Deut. 18:15-16..."Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe

me."...Jn. 5:45-47

Deut. 18:18...Sent by the Father to speak His word...Jn. 8:28, 29

Deut. 18:19...Whoever will not hear must bear his sin...Jn. 12:15,

Deut. 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree...Gal. 3:10-13

Ruth 4:4-9...Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us...Eph. 1:3-7

1 Sam. 2:10...Shall be an anointed King to the Lord...Mt. 28:18;

Jn. 12:15

2 Sam. 7:12...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1

2 Sam. 7:14a...The Son of God... Lu. 1:32

2 Sam. 7:16...David's house established forever...Lu. 3:31; Rev.

22:16

2 Ki. 2:11...The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated...Lu. 24:51

1 Chr. 17:11...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1; 9:27

1 Chr. 17:12, 13a...To reign on David's throne forever...Lu. 1:32,

33

1 Chr. 17:13a..."I will be His Father, He...my Son."...Heb. 1:5

Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29

Psa. 2:1-3...The enmity of kings foreordained...Acts 4:25-28

Psa. 2:2...To own the title, Anointed (Christ)...Acts 2:36

Ps. 2:6...His Character-Holiness...Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7

Ps. 2:6...To own the title King...Mt. 2:2

Ps. 2:7...Declared the Beloved Son...Mt. 3;17

Psa. 2:7, 8...The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated...Acts

13:29-33

Psa. 2:12...Life comes through faith in Him...Jn. 20:31

Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16

Psa. 8:5, 6...His humiliation and exaltation...Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor.

15:27

Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31

Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9

Psa. 17;15...The resurrection predicted...Lu. 24:6

Psa. 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Cor. 5:21

Psa. 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mk.

15:34

Psa. 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Mt. 27:45

Psa. 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Mt.

27:39

Psa. 22:8.."He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him"...Mt.

27:43

Psa. 22:9......Born the Saviour......Lu. 2:7

Psa. 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured)heart...Jn. 19:34

Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37

Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28

Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn.

19:34,37;20:27

Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu.

23:34,35

Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24

Psa. 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Lu.23:46

Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's

heel..Heb. 2:14

Psa. 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....Jn. 20:17

Psa. 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16

Psa. 22:31......"It is finished"......Jn. 19:30

Psa. 23:1...."I am the Good Shephard"....Jn. 10:11

Psa. 24:3......His exaltation predicted......Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9

Psa. 30:3......His resurrection predicted......Acts 2:32

Psa. 31:5..."Into thy hands I commit my spirit"...Lu. 23:46

Psa. 31:11...His acquaintances fled from Him...Mk. 14:50

Psa. 31:13...They took counsel to put Him to death...Jn. 11:53

Psa. 31:14,15..." He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"...Mt.

27:43

Psa. 34:20.....Not a bone of Him broken.....Jn 19:31-36

Psa. 35:11....False witnesses rose up against Him....Mt. 26:59

Psa. 35:19...He was hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25

Psa. 38:11.....His friends stood afar off.....Lu. 23:49

Psa. 40:2-5...The joy of His resurrection predicted...Jn. 20:20

Psa. 40:6-8....His delight-the will of the Father....Jn. 4:34

Psa. 40:9....He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel....Mt.

4:17

Psa. 40:14...Confronted by adversaries in the Garden...Jn. 18:4-6

Psa. 41:9.....Betrayed by a familiar friend.....Jn. 13:18

Psa. 45:2...Words of Grace come from His lips...Lu. 4:22

Psa. 45:6...To own the title, God or Elohim...Heb. 1:8

Psa. 45:7...A special anointing by the Holy Spirit...Mt.3:16;

Heb.1:9

Psa. 45:7,8...Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)...Lu. 2:11

Psa. 55:12-14...Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy...Jn. 13:18

Psa. 55:15...Unrepentant death of the Betrayer...Mt. 27:3-5; Acts

1:16-19

Psa. 68:18...To give gifts to men...Eph. 4:7-16

Psa. 68:18...Ascended into Heaven...Lu. 24:51

Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25

Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21

Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17

Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt.

26:36-45

Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38

Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34

Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4;

18:11

Psa. 72:10,11...Great persons were to visit Him...Mt. 2:1-11

Psa. 72:16...The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground...Jn. 12:24

Psa. 72:17...His name, Yinon, will produce offspring...Jn. 1:12,13

Psa. 72:17...All nations shall be blessed by Him...Acts 2:11,12,41

Psa. 78:1.2...He would teach in parables...Mt. 13:34-35

Psa. 78:2b...To speak the Wisdom of God with authority...Mt.

7:29

Psa. 88:8...They stood afar off and watched...Lu. 23:49

Psa. 89:27...Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings...Lu.

1:32,33

Psa. 89:35-37...David's Seed, throne, kingdom endure

forever...Lu. 1:32,33

Psa. 89:36-37...His character-Faithfulness...Rev. 1:5

Psa. 90:2...He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)...Jn. 1:1

Psa. 91:11,12...Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ...Lu.

4;10,11

Psa. 97:9...His exaltation predicted...Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20

Psa. 100:5...His character-Goodness...Mt. 19:16,17

Psa. 102:1-11...The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary...Jn.

21:16-30

Psa. 102:25-27...Messiah is the Preexistent Son...Heb. 1:10-12

Psa. 109:25...Ridiculed...Mt. 27:39

Psa. 110:1...Son of David...Mt. 22:43

Psa. 110:1...To ascend to the right-hand of the Father...Mk.16:19

Psa. 110:1...David's son called Lord...Mt. 22:44,45

Psa. 110:4...A priest after Melchizedek's order...Heb. 6:20

Psa. 112:4...His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt.

9;36

Psa. 118:17,18...Messiah's Resurrection assured...Lu. 24:5-7;1

Cor. 15:20

Psa. 118:22,23...The rejected stone is Head of the corner...Mt.

21:42,43

Psa. 118:26a...The Blessed One presented to Israel...Mt. 21:9

Psa. 118:26b...To come while Temple standing...Mt. 21;12-15

Psa. 132:11...The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)...Lu. 1:32

Psa. 138:1-6...The supremacy of David's Seed amazes kings... Mt.

2:2-6

Psa. 147:3,6...The earthly ministry of Christ described...Lu. 4:18

Psa. 1:23...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7

Song. 5;16...The altogether lovely One...Jn. 1:17

Isa. 6:1...When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41

Isa. 6:9-10...Parables fall on deaf ears...Mt. 13:13-15

Isa. 6:9-12...Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words...Acts. 28:23-

29

Isa. 7:14...To be born of a virgin...Lu. 1:35

Isa. 7:14...To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23

Isa. 8:8...Called Emmanuel...Mt. 28:20

Isa. 8:14...A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8

Isa. 9:1,2...His ministry to begin in Galilee...Mt. 4:12-17

Isa. 9:6...A child born-Humanity...Lu. 1:31

Isa. 9:6...A Son given-Deity...Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16

Isa. 9:6...Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4

Isa. 9:6...The Wonderful One, Peleh...Lu. 4:22

Isa. 9:6...The Counsellor, Yaatz...Mt. 13:54

Isa. 9:6...The Mighty God, El Gibor...Mt. 11:20

Isa. 9:6...The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth...Jn. 8:58

Isa. 9:6...The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom...Jn . 16:33

Isa. 9:7...To establish an everlasting kingdom...Lu. 1:32-33

Isa. 9:7...His Character-Just...Jn. 5:30

Isa. 9:7...No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace...Lu.

1:32-33

Isa. 11:1...Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer...Mt. 2:23

Isa. 11:1...A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse...Lu. 3:23,32

Isa. 11:2...The anointed One by the Spirit...Mt. 3;16,17

Isa. 11:2...His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al....Jn. 4:4-

26

Isa. 11:4...His Character-Truth...Jn. 14:6

Isa. 11:10...The Gentiles seek Him...Jn. 12:18-21

Isa. 12:2...Called Jesus-Yeshua...Mt. 1:21

Isa. 25:8...The Resurrection predicted...I Cor. 15:54

Isa. 26:19...His power of Resurrection predicted...Jn. 11:43,44

Isa. 28:16...The Messiah is the precious corner stone...Acts

4:11,12

Isa. 29:13...He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word...Mt.

15:7-9

Isa. 29:14...The wise are confounded by the Word...I Cor. 1:18-31

Isa. 32:2...A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place...Mt. 23:37

Isa. 35:4...He will come and save you...Mt. 1:21

Isa. 35:5...To have a ministry of miracles...Mt. 11:4-6

Isa. 40:3,4...Preceded by forerunner...Jn. 1:23

Isa. 40:9..."Behold your God."...Jn. 1:36;19:14

Isa. 40:11...A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver...Jn. 10:10-18

Isa. 42:1-4...The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer...

Mt.12:18-21

Isa. 42:2...Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30

Isa. 42:3...He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4

Isa. 42:4...The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26

Isa. 42:6...The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles...Lu. 2:32

Isa. 42:1,6...His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20

Isa. 42:7...Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38

Isa. 43:11...He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12

Isa. 44:3...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13

Isa. 45:23...He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11

Isa. 48:12...The First and the Last...Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17

Isa. 48:17...He came as a Teacher...Jn. 3:2

Isa. 49:1...Called from the womb-His humanity...Mt. 1:18

Isa. 49:5...A Servant from the womb...Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7

Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation for Israel...Lu. 2:29-32

Isa. 49:6...He is the Light of the Gentiles...Acts 13:47

Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-

18

Isa. 49:7...He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49

Isa. 50:3...Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu.

23:44,45

Isa. 50:4...He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29

Isa. 50:5...The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39

Isa. 50:6a..."I gave my back to the smiters."... Mt. 27:26

Isa. 50:6b...He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67

Isa. 50:6c...He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30

Isa. 52:7...To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15

Isa. 52:13...The Servant exalted...Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22

Isa. 52:13...Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8

Isa. 52:14...The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt.

26:67,68

Isa. 52:15...Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom.

15:18-21

Isa. 52:15...His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5

Isa. 53:1...His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38

Isa. 53:2a...He would grow up in a poor family.... Lu. 2:7

Isa. 53:2b...Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8

Isa. 53:3a...Despised.... Lu. 4:28-29

Isa. 53:3b...Rejected... Mt. 27:21-23

Isa. 53:3c...Great sorrow and grief... Lu. 19:41-42

Isa. 53:3d...Men hide from being associated with Him... Mk.

14:50-52

Isa. 53:4a...He would have a healing ministry... Lu. 6:17-19

Isa. 53:4b...He would bear the sins of the world... 1 Pet. 2:24

Isa. 53:4c...Thought to be cursed by God... Mt. 27:41-43

Isa. 53:5a...Bears penalty for mankind's transgressions... Lu. 23:33

Isa. 53:5b...His sacrifice would provide peace between man and

God... Col. 1:20

Isa. 53:5c...His back would be whipped... Mt. 27:26

Isa. 53:6a...He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind...Gal. 1:4

Isa. 53:6b...God's will that He bear sin for all mankind... 1 Jn.

4:10

Isa. 53:7a...Oppressed and afflicted... Mt. 27:27-31

Isa. 53:7b...Silent before his accusers... Mt. 27:12-14

Isa. 53:7c...Sacrificial lamb... Jn. 1:29

Isa. 53:8a...Confined and persecuted... Mt. 26:47-27:31

Isa. 53:8b...He would be judged... Jn. 18:13-22

Isa. 53:8c...Killed.... Mt. 27:35

Isa. 53:8d...Dies for the sins of the world... 1 Jn. 2:2

Isa. 53:9a...Buried in a rich man's grave... Mt. 27:57

Isa. 53:9b...Innocent and had done no violence... Mk. 15:3

Isa. 53:9c...No deceit in his mouth... Jn. 18:38

Isa. 53:10a...God's will that He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11

Isa. 53:10b...An offering for sin... Mt. 20:28

Isa. 53:10c...Resurrected and live forever.... Mk. 16:16

Isa. 53:10d...He would prosper... Jn. 17:1-5

Isa. 53:11a...God fully satisfied with His suffering... Jn. 12:27

Isa. 53:11b...God's servant... Rom. 5:18-19

Isa. 53:11c...He would justify man before God... Rom. 5:8-9

Isa. 53:11d...The sin-bearer for all mankind... Heb. 9:28

Isa. 53:12a...Exalted by God because of his sacrifice... Mt. 28:18

Isa. 53:12b...He would give up his life to save mankind... Lu.

23:46

Isa. 53:12c...Grouped with criminals... Lu. 23:32

Isa. 53:12d...Sin-bearer for all mankind... 2 Cor. 5:21

Isa. 53:12e...Intercede to God in behalf of mankind... Lu. 23:34

Isa. 55:3...Resurrected by God... Acts 13:34

Isa. 55:4...A witness... Jn. 18:37

Isa. 59:15-16a...He would come to provide salvation... Jn. 6:40

Isa. 59:15-16b...Intercessor between man and God... Mt. 10:32

Isa. 59:20...He would come to Zion as their Redeemer... Lu. 2:38

Isa. 61:1-2a...The Spirit of God upon him... Mt. 3:16-17

Isa. 61:1-2b...The Messiah would preach the good news... Lu.

4:17-21

Isa. 61:1-2c...Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and

death... Jn. 8:31-32

Isa. 61:1-2...Proclaim a period of grace... Jn. 5:24

Jer.23:5-6a...Descendant of David...Lu. 3:23-31

Jer. 23:5-6b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 13:13

Jer. 23:5-6c...The Messiah would be both God and Man... 1 Tim.

3:16

Jer. 31:22...Born of a virgin... Mt. 1:18-20

Jer. 31:31...The Messiah would be the new covenant... Mt. 26:28

Jer. 33:14-15...Descendant of David... Lu. 3:23-31

Eze.17:22-24...Descendant of David... Lk. 3:23-31

Eze.34:23-24...Descendant of David... Mt. 1:1

Dan. 7:13-14a...He would ascend into heaven... Acts 1:9-11

Dan. 7:13-14b...Highly exalted... Eph. 1:20-22

Dan. 7:13-14c...His dominion would be everlasting... Lu. 1:31-33

Dan. 9:24a...To make an end to sins... Gal. 1:3-5

Dan. 9:24b...He would be holy... Lu. 1:35

Dan. 9:25...Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day,

after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem... Jn. 12:12-13

Dan. 9:26a...Killed... Mt. 27:35

Dan. 9:26b...Die for the sins of the world... Heb. 2:9

Dan. 9:26c...Killed before the destruction of the temple... Mt.

27:50-51

Dan. 10:5-6...Messiah in a glorified state... Rev. 1:13-16

Hos. 13:14...He would defeat death... 1 Cor. 15:55-57

Joel 2:32...Offer salvation to all mankind... Rom. 10:12-13

Mic. 5:2a...Born in Bethlehem... Mt. 2:1-2

Mic. 5:2b...God's servant... Jn. 15:10

Mic. 5:2c...From everlasting... Jn. 8:58

Hag. 2:6-9...He would visit the second Temple... Lu. 2:27-32

Hag. 2:23...Descendant of Zerubbabel... Lu. 3:23-27

Zech. 3:8...God's servant... Jn. 17:4

Zech. 6:12-13...Priest and King... Heb. 8:1

Zech. 9:9a...Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem... Mt. 21:8-10

Zech. 9:9b...Beheld as King... Jn. 12:12-13

Zech. 9:9c...The Messiah would be just... Jn. 5:30

Zech. 9:9d...The Messiah would bring salvation... Luke 19:10

Zech. 9:9e...The Messiah would be humble... Mt. 11:29

Zech. 9:9f...Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey... Mt. 21:6-

9

Zech. 10:4...The cornerstone... Eph. 2:20

Zech. 11:4-6a...At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders... Mt.

23:1-4

Zech. 11:4-6b...Rejection causes God to remove His protection..

Lu. 19:41-44

Zech. 11:4-6c...Rejected in favor of another king... Jn. 19:13-15

Zech. 11:7...Ministry to "poor," the believing remnant... Mt. 9:35-

36

Zech. 11:8a...Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them... Mt. 23:33

Zech. 11:8b...Despised... Mt. 27:20

Zech. 11:9...Stops ministering to the those who rejected Him...

Mt. 13:10-11

Zech. 11:10-11a...Rejection causes God to remove protection...

Lu. 19:41-44

Zech. 11:10-11b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 14:7

Zech. 11:12-13a...Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver... Mt. 26:14-

15

Zech. 11:12-13b...Rejected... Mt. 26:14-15

Zech. 11:12-13c...Thirty pieces of silver thrown into the house of

the Lord... Mt. 27:3-5

Zech. 11:12-13d...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 12:45

Zech. 12:10a...The Messiah's body would be pierced... Jn. 19:34-

37

Zech. 12:10b...The Messiah would be both God and man... Jn.

10:30

Zech. 12:10c...The Messiah would be rejected... Jn. 1:11

Zech. 13:7a...God's will He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11

Zech. 13:7b...A violent death... Mt. 27:35

Zech. 13:7c...Both God and man.. Jn. 14:9

Zech. 13:7d...Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him... Mt.

26:31-56

Mal. 3:1a...Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah... Mt. 11:10

Mal. 3:1b...Sudden appearance at the temple... Mk. 11:15-16

Mal. 3:1c...Messenger of the new covenant... Lu. 4:43

Mal. 4:5...Forerunner in the spirit of Elijah... Mt. 3:1-2

Mal. 4:6...Forerunner would turn many to righteousness... Lu.1:16-17

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:13 pm

Something happened in Jesus life and so "That the prophesy might be fulfilled" that is how the story was written up.. You can find the story of Jesus completely copied from the OT. That is not prophesy fulfilled it is a style of writing(midrash)

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:15 pm

Ted;1517417 wrote: Xfrod that is pure nonsense. Interpretations after interpretations.

No, I just think non believers use the whole "Interpretation" thing as an excuse not to believe what's actually written. If Jesus says He is the only way to the Father, there is no other way to interpret those words.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:05 pm

Oh? Sorry but when I talk with you you interpret what I said and its the same the other way. Those writing the Bible did exactly the same thing.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:09 pm

posted by xfrodobagginsx

Are you kidding me? Look at this extensive list below. How do you think that Herod knew where and when Jesus was born? Because of Bible prophecy. Look at the list I gave and then come back to me.

The bible was written through 40 men in 3 languages over a 1,500 year period. These men lived in different parts of the world, some were rich, some were poor, some were educated, some were not, most didn't know each other, many of them didnâ€™t have access to the other's writings and yet it fits together as if it were written by one person, because it was inspired by God. It has no true errors or contradictions. There are countless prophecies which have been predicted and fulfilled perfectly in scripture. Many of these prophecies were written hundreds or even thousands of years before they were fulfilled.

certainly herod seems the type who would have ben capable of such an atrocity but actually the only evidence for what herod is suipposed to have done to the first born is in the bible there is no other historical evidence to back it up. Only one verse in Matthew mentions it the event is notably absent from the other gospels.

If you think it all holds together with no contradictions maybe you should sit down and read it for yourself. As you may have gathered I am an atheist I have yet to see any evidence that would confrim there is indeed a god and the bible no matter how much you wish to believe it is the word of god is not in itsefef proof of god. To claim it is inerrantbecause it is the word of god is so patently ridiculous I find it hard to credit any reasonable hiuman being would believe it to be so. Yet we are told we must respect religious belief no matter how ridiculous. In the 21st centiry that relgion should be the cause of so much misery and oppression is sad.

I could sit down and go through it pointing out all the contradictions and arrant nonsense but it's better if you study it for yourseld.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:58 pm

Ted;1517418 wrote: Xfrod Sorry but I study under very credible scholars. I do think that some folks are so concerned about saving their own soul they are so heavenly bound they are of no use use on earth. In fact two of the scholars I enjoy are the preeminent Jesus scholars on earth and recognized by all the credible scholars.

First of all, think for yourself. Scholars are there to guide you, not tell you what to think. The Scholars that I use are very credible. If the scholars are liberals, they aren't credible. Why bother with it if you aren't going to believe it anyway? I really wonder why they bother.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:52 am

xfrodobagginsx;1517458 wrote: First of all, think for yourself. Scholars are there to guide you, not tell you what to think. The Scholars that I use are very credible. If the scholars are liberals, they aren't credible. Why bother with it if you aren't going to believe it anyway? I really wonder why they bother.

Where on earth does that one come from what do you mean by liberal? Are fascists somehow more believeable? You have a major problem in that a liberal is by definition someone willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas. The very antithesis of a religious person. If you can be liberal in your rsearch and still decide you believe in god or a relgion that is fine vbut to not even be prepared to test your faith rather begs the question what are you afraid of? Most of the problems in the world stem from intolerance of others you do not make a good case for religion.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:08 am

Ted;1517420 wrote: Just reading a book by Bart Ehrman a Biblical historian titles "How Jesus became God". It is a short history of the Christian faith and what I have leaned from this text and many others is that the Christian church of today in no way represents the Church of the Apostles. The Closest church to the church of the apostles is the Greek Orthodox church.

Interesting that you would rather believe a man who was born 2,000 years after Christ rather than the actual eyewitnesses who were actually there. The Bible declares Him to be God and it's easily proved.

Jesus Christ IS God

There are some religions out there that believe and teach that Jesus Christ is not God. Some teach that He is a god, but not thee God. I am going to demonstrate through the word of God that He is God and created all things.

Jesusâ€™s name â€œImmanuelâ€ LITERALLY means â€œGod with usâ€

Mt 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

He always existed (from everlasting):

Mic 5:2 (NKJV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting."

This prophecy is of Christ's first comming. His Goings forth have been from everlasting because Christ Jesus is God.

Jesus Christ is one with the Father. He is God.

Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Jesus declares Himself to be the great I AM of the Old Testiment. I AM is God's Name

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

I am IS God. There is only one God. That God has three parts.

Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

His Disciple/Apostle Peter Admits that Jesus knows â€œAll thingsâ€ (Only God knows all things)

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.

Jesus Knows Our Thoughts

Mt 9:4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?

Lu 11:17 But He, knowing their thoughts, said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and a house divided against a house falls.

In Him Dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead Bodily:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {rudiments: or, elements} {make a prey: or, seduce you, or, lead you astray} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: {his...: Gr. the Son of his love}

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. {in...: or, among all} 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

God's plurality is found in Genesis

Ge 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

His Disciple/Apostle Thomas Confessed Him to be God and Jesus did NOT rebuke Him for it:

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

This verse demonstrates how God has multiple aspects. He said Let â€œUSâ€ make man in â€œOURâ€ image. He didnâ€™t say, let me make man in My image, He said let US make man is OUR image.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares Christ Jesus to be God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares that the world was made by Him (Jesus Christ)

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

All things were made by Him and He was in the beginning with God (Father)

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

There are MANY places where He is worshipped and Jesus NEVER tells them not to worship Him, NOT once. Only God is to be worshipped, because Jesus IS God, Jesus IS worshipped:

Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}

Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Mt 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Mt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. {worshipped him: or, besought him}

Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Mr 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

Mr 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.

Lu 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

Re 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Scripture refers to Him as the Lord, Jesus Christ. The phrase "The Lord" is unique only to God:

Here are a few mentioning "The Lord Your God"

De 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants}

De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Here are many calling Him Jesus Christ, The Lord.

Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Ro 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

2Co 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. >

Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: {conversation...: or, we live or conduct ourselves as citizens of heaven, or, for obtaining heaven}

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Trinity (Three in one)

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Father, Son and Spirit Present at Christâ€™s Baptism:

Mt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Conclusion: Jesus Christ is God. Not a God but the God of the bible. God has three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are equal, yet the Son is submissive to the Father and the Holy Spirit is submissive to the Son. Jesus Christ was an EXAMPLE for us. He died on the cross for our sins so that we could go to heaven and be forgiven of our sins. He shed His blood for us.