xfrodobagginsx;1512607 wrote: I will stick to actually believing what the Bible says. Being a good person doesn't get you to heaven because you are already a sinner. Otherwise, Jesus Christ wouldn't have had to die on the cross and rise from the dead as He did.
That shows how stupid your god is. Or perhaps the word should be 'omnimoronic'. Any first year student could come up with a better way to deal with 'sin'.
Sin is meaningless. Mistakes are real. To cook somebody for eternity for making a mistake has to be the cruelest punishment one could think of.
Thank god those are just made up lies. Amen.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1512471 wrote: The historical Jesus is dead but his spirit lives on. Paul was very clear about that. He said ":flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" BTW the kingdom will be here on earth hopefully.
The Historical Jesus died, but rose again 3 days later. He ascended into heaven at that time in front of hundreds of people. Christianity exploded afterward because of this. Had He stayed dead, Christianity would have died. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven is true. It means that the sinful bodies that we now possess will not be there, but God will give us a new Body of flesh and bone. It's a body that is indestructible at that time.
The Historical Jesus died, but rose again 3 days later. He ascended into heaven at that time in front of hundreds of people. Christianity exploded afterward because of this. Had He stayed dead, Christianity would have died. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven is true. It means that the sinful bodies that we now possess will not be there, but God will give us a new Body of flesh and bone. It's a body that is indestructible at that time.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1512480 wrote: I know. You make the impossible possible. You probably walk on water too.:yh_angel:yh_liar:yh_pray
Only if God gives me the power. Jesus gave Peter the power to do so.
Only if God gives me the power. Jesus gave Peter the power to do so.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512624 wrote: The Historical Jesus died, but rose again 3 days later. He ascended into heaven at that time in front of hundreds of people. Christianity exploded afterward because of this. Had He stayed dead, Christianity would have died. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven is true. It means that the sinful bodies that we now possess will not be there, but God will give us a new Body of flesh and bone. It's a body that is indestructible at that time.
False:wah:
Christianity exploded because people were so gullible to believe the fairy tale. They simply needed something to explain the unknown and make them feel looked after. It might as well have been the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead of that Jesus guy.
False:wah:
Christianity exploded because people were so gullible to believe the fairy tale. They simply needed something to explain the unknown and make them feel looked after. It might as well have been the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead of that Jesus guy.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512483 wrote: Heaven does not exist. It has a zero value.
Life after death does not exist. It has a zero value.
Therefore, the lack of Heaven & the lack of a life after death are one & the same - they both have a zero value. Therefore I shall be going to Heaven when I die. i.e. nowhere, as there is nowhere for nothing to go. Under normal circumstances I would say that that seems like a double negative, but you cannot have a place that doesn't exist specifically for the purpose of something else that doesn't exist.
Wrong. Jesus created all things, lived in heaven and then came to the earth and told us about these things. Life and death does not exist? Do you exist? If you don't, then why do you care about anything? Plenty of anecdotal evidence to support life after dead. But they do exist.
Life after death does not exist. It has a zero value.
Therefore, the lack of Heaven & the lack of a life after death are one & the same - they both have a zero value. Therefore I shall be going to Heaven when I die. i.e. nowhere, as there is nowhere for nothing to go. Under normal circumstances I would say that that seems like a double negative, but you cannot have a place that doesn't exist specifically for the purpose of something else that doesn't exist.
Wrong. Jesus created all things, lived in heaven and then came to the earth and told us about these things. Life and death does not exist? Do you exist? If you don't, then why do you care about anything? Plenty of anecdotal evidence to support life after dead. But they do exist.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512545 wrote: There are many forms of Christianity, and each one believes theirs to be the 'ture' one. Remember, Jesus wasn't a Christian himself, so was he not of the 'true' faith either.
You do have the other option correct, though, that they are all false.
Jesus started the Church. Jesus is the head of the Church. The Church that is true is the one that is most in line with the Scriptures. A True Christian is someone who is born again. You become born again by placing your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, believing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins. This first post explains that. The true Church is actually made up of the true born again believers. It's not about a denomination. It's about "Have you accepted Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation" as I stated before.
You do have the other option correct, though, that they are all false.
Jesus started the Church. Jesus is the head of the Church. The Church that is true is the one that is most in line with the Scriptures. A True Christian is someone who is born again. You become born again by placing your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, believing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins. This first post explains that. The true Church is actually made up of the true born again believers. It's not about a denomination. It's about "Have you accepted Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation" as I stated before.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512579 wrote: They DID know because the Holy Spirit inspired them to write it. That's why it all fits together like one person wrote it. They couldn't have known what the other person wrote. Think about that. No, it's 40 different authors and it all fits together like 1 book.
There's a reason it's 40 authors making it sound like 1 book. It's because all those authors lived at different times & were basically rehashing the rehashed stories they had heard along the grapevine. Then along comes someone else, & tries to combine them into one book. It's all like media. You find a story which is so bizarre, with an obvious spin on it but being naturally cynical you research other sources & find a totally opposite take on it. Then you research more & find that despite there being so many different spins on the story that it was a fake all the time - a total hoax from the start, but because so many people had published their own versions everyone gets to believe it's true & just accepting the pro & con spins.
You say that Jesus IS God. Not according to Jesus. According to the Bible he denied that statement. As usual, your faith relies on cherry picking. You decide that one thing is so, but totally disregard anything that contradicts that belief - even when it comes from exactly the same source.
There's a reason it's 40 authors making it sound like 1 book. It's because all those authors lived at different times & were basically rehashing the rehashed stories they had heard along the grapevine. Then along comes someone else, & tries to combine them into one book. It's all like media. You find a story which is so bizarre, with an obvious spin on it but being naturally cynical you research other sources & find a totally opposite take on it. Then you research more & find that despite there being so many different spins on the story that it was a fake all the time - a total hoax from the start, but because so many people had published their own versions everyone gets to believe it's true & just accepting the pro & con spins.
You say that Jesus IS God. Not according to Jesus. According to the Bible he denied that statement. As usual, your faith relies on cherry picking. You decide that one thing is so, but totally disregard anything that contradicts that belief - even when it comes from exactly the same source.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512657 wrote: Wrong. Jesus created all things, lived in heaven and then came to the earth and told us about these things. Life and death does not exist? Do you exist? If you don't, then why do you care about anything? Plenty of anecdotal evidence to support life after dead. But they do exist.
That simple attempt at apologetics has so many flaws. According to your Bible, it was God who created all things. Jesus wasn't even in the picture. You claim him to be the Son of God. So who was the Mother? Mary. And when did Mary come into the picture? Not for several thousand years later.
You try to quote something I never said (typical fundamentalist tactic). I said that Life AFTER Death does not exist, not that Life AND Death do not exist. The two statements are totally different. Life & Death are very real things. You cannot have one without the other. If there is Life After Death then it is in the sense that something has to die in order for something else to live. Then when that thing dies it, in turn, gives life to something else, in the form of food & nourishment.
If there is a life 'energy' (which I accept as a possibility, as it is potentially possible under the 1st Law of Conservation of Energy), then that energy is passed on to the next life. That energy, in the abstract sense 'could' be regarded as a 'soul', although it has no conciousness. If anything, this more supports the Buddhist / Hindu typre Religions that believe in reincarnation.
The only key word that comes close to being accurate in your statement is 'anecdotal', although technically that is not 'evidence'. Anecdotal is like "I was talking to bloke down the pub who said his Brother's mate said such & such a thing". That is anecdotal, but there is no way it can be classed as evidence. There are anecdotes of people having died & floated in the air looking down from above on their dead body. Lucid dreaming has exactly the same effect - something I experience quite often, but I don't claim to have died every time I do so. I also know that Southampton University Hospital Trust (and possibly some other institutes as well) have run scientific experiments to test the validity of such claims by placing clear, simple symbols & pictures at points which may only be seen from the positions where the person in question claims to have been in the rooms where sudden deaths are most likely to happen, such as critical operating theatres & A&E wards. So far, not one has ever been able to correctly identify any of these symbols.
Whilst dreaming in REM sleep, in reality a dream which may seem to last hours or days only lasts a few seconds. Furthermore, the condition of 'Brain Death' at many stages can be extremely contoversial. If you putt an EEG on a jelly it will actually give readings that would indicate life. Nobody knows, for certain, at what stage the brain actually dies, so to say that a person was brain dead for, say 10 minutes, would be meaningless. It just means that there were no visible signs of life to our level of understanding. However, with methods of medical science circumstances change & the patient can often be recovered. During which time, of course, the brain has received a trauma, which it often interprets in the form of lucid dreaming. That does not prove a life after death whatsoever. There are also many examples where people have been thought to have been dead, but have, in fact, been in shock & have actually recovered on their own with no other intervention. Therefore, IF jesus had existed (something that there is also no proof of) & he was seen to be alive after his 'death', that would be one possible explanation for it. Remember, they wouldn't have the skills of a modern doctor to check for the slightest sign of life back then. Things would just be taken for granted. It doesn't prove that he ever actually died. As you rightfully accept - all of this is anecdotal.
For you to say that Life after Death DOES exist is an utter unfounded fallacy. What may be true to say is that you BELIEVE it does exist. You can believe in whatever you like - fairies, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas. Believing it doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may want it to be so.
That simple attempt at apologetics has so many flaws. According to your Bible, it was God who created all things. Jesus wasn't even in the picture. You claim him to be the Son of God. So who was the Mother? Mary. And when did Mary come into the picture? Not for several thousand years later.
You try to quote something I never said (typical fundamentalist tactic). I said that Life AFTER Death does not exist, not that Life AND Death do not exist. The two statements are totally different. Life & Death are very real things. You cannot have one without the other. If there is Life After Death then it is in the sense that something has to die in order for something else to live. Then when that thing dies it, in turn, gives life to something else, in the form of food & nourishment.
If there is a life 'energy' (which I accept as a possibility, as it is potentially possible under the 1st Law of Conservation of Energy), then that energy is passed on to the next life. That energy, in the abstract sense 'could' be regarded as a 'soul', although it has no conciousness. If anything, this more supports the Buddhist / Hindu typre Religions that believe in reincarnation.
The only key word that comes close to being accurate in your statement is 'anecdotal', although technically that is not 'evidence'. Anecdotal is like "I was talking to bloke down the pub who said his Brother's mate said such & such a thing". That is anecdotal, but there is no way it can be classed as evidence. There are anecdotes of people having died & floated in the air looking down from above on their dead body. Lucid dreaming has exactly the same effect - something I experience quite often, but I don't claim to have died every time I do so. I also know that Southampton University Hospital Trust (and possibly some other institutes as well) have run scientific experiments to test the validity of such claims by placing clear, simple symbols & pictures at points which may only be seen from the positions where the person in question claims to have been in the rooms where sudden deaths are most likely to happen, such as critical operating theatres & A&E wards. So far, not one has ever been able to correctly identify any of these symbols.
Whilst dreaming in REM sleep, in reality a dream which may seem to last hours or days only lasts a few seconds. Furthermore, the condition of 'Brain Death' at many stages can be extremely contoversial. If you putt an EEG on a jelly it will actually give readings that would indicate life. Nobody knows, for certain, at what stage the brain actually dies, so to say that a person was brain dead for, say 10 minutes, would be meaningless. It just means that there were no visible signs of life to our level of understanding. However, with methods of medical science circumstances change & the patient can often be recovered. During which time, of course, the brain has received a trauma, which it often interprets in the form of lucid dreaming. That does not prove a life after death whatsoever. There are also many examples where people have been thought to have been dead, but have, in fact, been in shock & have actually recovered on their own with no other intervention. Therefore, IF jesus had existed (something that there is also no proof of) & he was seen to be alive after his 'death', that would be one possible explanation for it. Remember, they wouldn't have the skills of a modern doctor to check for the slightest sign of life back then. Things would just be taken for granted. It doesn't prove that he ever actually died. As you rightfully accept - all of this is anecdotal.
For you to say that Life after Death DOES exist is an utter unfounded fallacy. What may be true to say is that you BELIEVE it does exist. You can believe in whatever you like - fairies, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas. Believing it doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may want it to be so.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1512615 wrote: That shows how stupid your god is. Or perhaps the word should be 'omnimoronic'. Any first year student could come up with a better way to deal with 'sin'.
Sin is meaningless. Mistakes are real. To cook somebody for eternity for making a mistake has to be the cruelest punishment one could think of.
Thank god those are just made up lies. Amen.
It shows how ignorant you are. How can you be good enough to go to heaven when you are already a sinner in the eyes of God? It's like a criminal saying that he shouldn't go to jail because he doesn't rob banks anymore. Do you think that the police will just excuse the banks he has robbed because he's a good person, or doesn't rob banks anymore? You can't be good enough to get to heaven because you are already a sinner in the first place. Jesus came and lived a perfect life so that He could take our punishment on Himself, but if you reject His pardon, than you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. We sin because we inherited a sin nature from Adam. It's a big mess that Jesus came to remedy in our behalf. That's the way it really is.
Sin is meaningless. Mistakes are real. To cook somebody for eternity for making a mistake has to be the cruelest punishment one could think of.
Thank god those are just made up lies. Amen.
It shows how ignorant you are. How can you be good enough to go to heaven when you are already a sinner in the eyes of God? It's like a criminal saying that he shouldn't go to jail because he doesn't rob banks anymore. Do you think that the police will just excuse the banks he has robbed because he's a good person, or doesn't rob banks anymore? You can't be good enough to get to heaven because you are already a sinner in the first place. Jesus came and lived a perfect life so that He could take our punishment on Himself, but if you reject His pardon, than you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. We sin because we inherited a sin nature from Adam. It's a big mess that Jesus came to remedy in our behalf. That's the way it really is.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1512646 wrote: False:wah:
Christianity exploded because people were so gullible to believe the fairy tale. They simply needed something to explain the unknown and make them feel looked after. It might as well have been the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead of that Jesus guy.
No, people weren't gullible. There was actually much opposition to Christianity, but the resurrection is what made the difference in convincing people of the truth of who Jesus Christ really is. Flying Spaghetti monster isn't supported by the evidence, Jesus Christ IS. That's the difference.
Christianity exploded because people were so gullible to believe the fairy tale. They simply needed something to explain the unknown and make them feel looked after. It might as well have been the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead of that Jesus guy.
No, people weren't gullible. There was actually much opposition to Christianity, but the resurrection is what made the difference in convincing people of the truth of who Jesus Christ really is. Flying Spaghetti monster isn't supported by the evidence, Jesus Christ IS. That's the difference.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512664 wrote: There's a reason it's 40 authors making it sound like 1 book. It's because all those authors lived at different times & were basically rehashing the rehashed stories they had heard along the grapevine. Then along comes someone else, & tries to combine them into one book. It's all like media. You find a story which is so bizarre, with an obvious spin on it but being naturally cynical you research other sources & find a totally opposite take on it. Then you research more & find that despite there being so many different spins on the story that it was a fake all the time - a total hoax from the start, but because so many people had published their own versions everyone gets to believe it's true & just accepting the pro & con spins.
You say that Jesus IS God. Not according to Jesus. According to the Bible he denied that statement. As usual, your faith relies on cherry picking. You decide that one thing is so, but totally disregard anything that contradicts that belief - even when it comes from exactly the same source.
They lived at different times and it is IMPOSSIBLE that the Bible would fit together as it does without even knowing what the others said. Had they been merely conveying stories through the grapevine, there would be contradictions and it wouldn't really fit together as it does at all. I would like you to take 66 books written by 40 authors and put them together as one book, there they talk about people's lives and events and they add details that couldn't have been known about, ect. Plus, all of the hundreds of prophecies that came true of Jesus just in His first coming...ect. It's transforming power, the fact that Jesus quoted it and used it authoritatively, the physical evidence that backs it up and many other things. I can EASILY prove to you Biblically, that Jesus Christ IS God and Jesus DID claim to be God.
You say that Jesus IS God. Not according to Jesus. According to the Bible he denied that statement. As usual, your faith relies on cherry picking. You decide that one thing is so, but totally disregard anything that contradicts that belief - even when it comes from exactly the same source.
They lived at different times and it is IMPOSSIBLE that the Bible would fit together as it does without even knowing what the others said. Had they been merely conveying stories through the grapevine, there would be contradictions and it wouldn't really fit together as it does at all. I would like you to take 66 books written by 40 authors and put them together as one book, there they talk about people's lives and events and they add details that couldn't have been known about, ect. Plus, all of the hundreds of prophecies that came true of Jesus just in His first coming...ect. It's transforming power, the fact that Jesus quoted it and used it authoritatively, the physical evidence that backs it up and many other things. I can EASILY prove to you Biblically, that Jesus Christ IS God and Jesus DID claim to be God.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512665 wrote: That simple attempt at apologetics has so many flaws. According to your Bible, it was God who created all things. Jesus wasn't even in the picture.
Interesting. That's not what the Bible says of Jesus though: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
You claim him to be the Son of God. So who was the Mother? Mary. And when did Mary come into the picture? Not for several thousand years later.
He is the Son of God, but wasn't born physically into a human body until later. He always existed though.
You try to quote something I never said (typical fundamentalist tactic). I said that Life AFTER Death does not exist, not that Life AND Death do not exist.
That's not what the Bible says: Paul writes: Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Da 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
The two statements are totally different. Life & Death are very real things. You cannot have one without the other. If there is Life After Death then it is in the sense that something has to die in order for something else to live. Then when that thing dies it, in turn, gives life to something else, in the form of food & nourishment.
Not Biblical.
If there is a life 'energy' (which I accept as a possibility, as it is potentially possible under the 1st Law of Conservation of Energy), then that energy is passed on to the next life. That energy, in the abstract sense 'could' be regarded as a 'soul', although it has no conciousness. If anything, this more supports the Buddhist / Hindu typre Religions that believe in reincarnation.
What do you base your beliefs on?
The only key word that comes close to being accurate in your statement is 'anecdotal', although technically that is not 'evidence'. Anecdotal is like "I was talking to bloke down the pub who said his Brother's mate said such & such a thing". That is anecdotal, but there is no way it can be classed as evidence.
Yes it can. When you have millions of people with similar stories. Also, they use testimony all of the time in Courts of law to make their case.
There are anecdotes of people having died & floated in the air looking down from above on their dead body.
Yes and describing all of the events which took place when they were brain dead and there is no way of knowing.
Lucid dreaming has exactly the same effect - something I experience quite often, but I don't claim to have died every time I do so.
They couldn't have been lucid dreaming if they had no brain waves as many of them experienced.
I also know that Southampton University Hospital Trust (and possibly some other institutes as well) have run scientific experiments to test the validity of such claims by placing clear, simple symbols & pictures at points which may only be seen from the positions where the person in question claims to have been in the rooms where sudden deaths are most likely to happen, such as critical operating theatres & A&E wards. So far, not one has ever been able to correctly identify any of these symbols.
I know. But that doesn't mean that there isn't anything happening that is very real. I have experienced out of body experiences many times and saw the room and evil spirits as well. I also know many people who have participated in astral projection (Which I believe is demonic). I have been awakened by these people from my sleep and heard them talking at the foot of my bed when I woke up.
Whilst dreaming in REM sleep, in reality a dream which may seem to last hours or days only lasts a few seconds.
I know that. However, many people believe that when we sleep and dream, we enter a spiritual reality. In the spirit realm, there is no time. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it could explain why.
Furthermore, the condition of 'Brain Death' at many stages can be extremely contoversial. If you putt an EEG on a jelly it will actually give readings that would indicate life. Nobody knows, for certain, at what stage the brain actually dies, so to say that a person was brain dead for, say 10 minutes, would be meaningless. It just means that there were no visible signs of life to our level of understanding. However, with methods of medical science circumstances change & the patient can often be recovered. During which time, of course, the brain has received a trauma, which it often interprets in the form of lucid dreaming. That does not prove a life after death whatsoever. There are also many examples where people have been thought to have been dead, but have, in fact, been in shock & have actually recovered on their own with no other intervention.
Don Piper, who has spoken at my Church and wrote the Book 90 minutes in heaven, was pronounced dead after being examined by Parametics who do this every day and was brain dead 1 1/2 hours only to come back and tell what he saw in heaven. I believe the man was really dead, especially given the other circumstances around his story. You can't dismiss it. Not to meantion "Heaven is for real" by Colton Burpo, 23 minutes in Hell by Bill Weise. These stories are compelling. I have also had my own experiences which give me no doubt of the after life and the Spiritual reality around us.
Therefore, IF jesus had existed (something that there is also no proof of) & he was seen to be alive after his 'death', that would be one possible explanation for it. Remember, they wouldn't have the skills of a modern doctor to check for the slightest sign of life back then. Things would just be taken for granted. It doesn't prove that he ever actually died. As you rightfully accept - all of this is anecdotal.
There is LOTS of proof that Jesus existed. There are DOZENS of historical writings from his day and shortly thereafter. He WAS seen to be alive after His death and resurrection, Hence the eyewitness testimony of the Biblical writers including His disciples, Jesus's half brothers and others. The death of Christ was very real. The Roman guards did this for a living and would have been killed themselves had they not really killed Jesus. Especially someone as high profile as Christ Jesus.
For you to say that Life after Death DOES exist is an utter unfounded fallacy. What may be true to say is that you BELIEVE it does exist. You can believe in whatever you like - fairies, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas. Believing it doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may want it to be so.
It's Biblical. It's anecdotal. I've experienced many MANY of these things myself. Miracles in my family that cannot be explained away. It's not just a belief. It's collaborated by millions and millions of people. Frankly, it's ridiculous NOT to believe it.
My responses are in bold above
Interesting. That's not what the Bible says of Jesus though: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
You claim him to be the Son of God. So who was the Mother? Mary. And when did Mary come into the picture? Not for several thousand years later.
He is the Son of God, but wasn't born physically into a human body until later. He always existed though.
You try to quote something I never said (typical fundamentalist tactic). I said that Life AFTER Death does not exist, not that Life AND Death do not exist.
That's not what the Bible says: Paul writes: Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Da 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
The two statements are totally different. Life & Death are very real things. You cannot have one without the other. If there is Life After Death then it is in the sense that something has to die in order for something else to live. Then when that thing dies it, in turn, gives life to something else, in the form of food & nourishment.
Not Biblical.
If there is a life 'energy' (which I accept as a possibility, as it is potentially possible under the 1st Law of Conservation of Energy), then that energy is passed on to the next life. That energy, in the abstract sense 'could' be regarded as a 'soul', although it has no conciousness. If anything, this more supports the Buddhist / Hindu typre Religions that believe in reincarnation.
What do you base your beliefs on?
The only key word that comes close to being accurate in your statement is 'anecdotal', although technically that is not 'evidence'. Anecdotal is like "I was talking to bloke down the pub who said his Brother's mate said such & such a thing". That is anecdotal, but there is no way it can be classed as evidence.
Yes it can. When you have millions of people with similar stories. Also, they use testimony all of the time in Courts of law to make their case.
There are anecdotes of people having died & floated in the air looking down from above on their dead body.
Yes and describing all of the events which took place when they were brain dead and there is no way of knowing.
Lucid dreaming has exactly the same effect - something I experience quite often, but I don't claim to have died every time I do so.
They couldn't have been lucid dreaming if they had no brain waves as many of them experienced.
I also know that Southampton University Hospital Trust (and possibly some other institutes as well) have run scientific experiments to test the validity of such claims by placing clear, simple symbols & pictures at points which may only be seen from the positions where the person in question claims to have been in the rooms where sudden deaths are most likely to happen, such as critical operating theatres & A&E wards. So far, not one has ever been able to correctly identify any of these symbols.
I know. But that doesn't mean that there isn't anything happening that is very real. I have experienced out of body experiences many times and saw the room and evil spirits as well. I also know many people who have participated in astral projection (Which I believe is demonic). I have been awakened by these people from my sleep and heard them talking at the foot of my bed when I woke up.
Whilst dreaming in REM sleep, in reality a dream which may seem to last hours or days only lasts a few seconds.
I know that. However, many people believe that when we sleep and dream, we enter a spiritual reality. In the spirit realm, there is no time. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it could explain why.
Furthermore, the condition of 'Brain Death' at many stages can be extremely contoversial. If you putt an EEG on a jelly it will actually give readings that would indicate life. Nobody knows, for certain, at what stage the brain actually dies, so to say that a person was brain dead for, say 10 minutes, would be meaningless. It just means that there were no visible signs of life to our level of understanding. However, with methods of medical science circumstances change & the patient can often be recovered. During which time, of course, the brain has received a trauma, which it often interprets in the form of lucid dreaming. That does not prove a life after death whatsoever. There are also many examples where people have been thought to have been dead, but have, in fact, been in shock & have actually recovered on their own with no other intervention.
Don Piper, who has spoken at my Church and wrote the Book 90 minutes in heaven, was pronounced dead after being examined by Parametics who do this every day and was brain dead 1 1/2 hours only to come back and tell what he saw in heaven. I believe the man was really dead, especially given the other circumstances around his story. You can't dismiss it. Not to meantion "Heaven is for real" by Colton Burpo, 23 minutes in Hell by Bill Weise. These stories are compelling. I have also had my own experiences which give me no doubt of the after life and the Spiritual reality around us.
Therefore, IF jesus had existed (something that there is also no proof of) & he was seen to be alive after his 'death', that would be one possible explanation for it. Remember, they wouldn't have the skills of a modern doctor to check for the slightest sign of life back then. Things would just be taken for granted. It doesn't prove that he ever actually died. As you rightfully accept - all of this is anecdotal.
There is LOTS of proof that Jesus existed. There are DOZENS of historical writings from his day and shortly thereafter. He WAS seen to be alive after His death and resurrection, Hence the eyewitness testimony of the Biblical writers including His disciples, Jesus's half brothers and others. The death of Christ was very real. The Roman guards did this for a living and would have been killed themselves had they not really killed Jesus. Especially someone as high profile as Christ Jesus.
For you to say that Life after Death DOES exist is an utter unfounded fallacy. What may be true to say is that you BELIEVE it does exist. You can believe in whatever you like - fairies, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas. Believing it doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may want it to be so.
It's Biblical. It's anecdotal. I've experienced many MANY of these things myself. Miracles in my family that cannot be explained away. It's not just a belief. It's collaborated by millions and millions of people. Frankly, it's ridiculous NOT to believe it.
My responses are in bold above
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512688 wrote: No, people weren't gullible. There was actually much opposition to Christianity, but the resurrection is what made the difference in convincing people of the truth of who Jesus Christ really is. Flying Spaghetti monster isn't supported by the evidence, Jesus Christ IS. That's the difference.
There is no difference, because we have no prove that either existed or exists.
There is no difference, because we have no prove that either existed or exists.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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Fuzzy;1512713 wrote: There is no difference, because we have no prove that either existed or exists.
Yes we do. I have told you this many times, you just aren't listening.
Yes we do. I have told you this many times, you just aren't listening.
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Double post Ooops
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DID JESUS RISE FROM THE DEAD:
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Fuzzy;1512713 wrote: There is no difference, because we have no prove that either existed or exists.
There is a lot of proof that Jesus Christ did in fact exist. Dozens of writings from the historians of His day. Early Church writings. The eyewitness Biblical writings.
There is a lot of proof that Jesus Christ did in fact exist. Dozens of writings from the historians of His day. Early Church writings. The eyewitness Biblical writings.
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Fuzzy;1507132 wrote: The scientist says 'Here are the facts. What conclusions can we draw from them?'
The religionist says 'Here's the conclusion. What facts can we find to support it?'
Not true. First of all, Creation Science IS Science. Christians invented the scientific method, Schools, University and the modern educational system. Creation Scientists look at the same evidence as Evolutionists, but they draw different Conclusions based on that same evidence.
The religionist says 'Here's the conclusion. What facts can we find to support it?'
Not true. First of all, Creation Science IS Science. Christians invented the scientific method, Schools, University and the modern educational system. Creation Scientists look at the same evidence as Evolutionists, but they draw different Conclusions based on that same evidence.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512745 wrote: Not true. First of all, Creation Science IS Science. Christians invented the scientific method, Schools, University and the modern educational system. Creation Scientists look at the same evidence as Evolutionists, but they draw different Conclusions based on that same evidence.
You mean that they draw difference conclusions based on their beliefs.
You mean that they draw difference conclusions based on their beliefs.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512740 wrote: There is a lot of proof that Jesus Christ did in fact exist. Dozens of writings from the historians of His day. Early Church writings. The eyewitness Biblical writings.
Writings upon writings. You may call them proof a million times. They still don't prove what you like to believe. Holding stubbornly unto an ancient, obsolete belief system only proves one thing.
Writings upon writings. You may call them proof a million times. They still don't prove what you like to believe. Holding stubbornly unto an ancient, obsolete belief system only proves one thing.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512718 wrote: Yes we do. I have told you this many times, you just aren't listening.
This is funny. I have also told you many times and you are not listening.:wah::yh_rotfl:wah:
This is funny. I have also told you many times and you are not listening.:wah::yh_rotfl:wah:
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
That simple attempt at apologetics has so many flaws. According to your Bible, it was God who created all things. Jesus wasn't even in the picture.
Interesting. That's not what the Bible says of Jesus though: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Collosians is New Testament - written long after the alleged birth of Jesus. The Earth was existent long before the NT - even according to the Bible.
You claim him to be the Son of God. So who was the Mother? Mary. And when did Mary come into the picture? Not for several thousand years later.
He is the Son of God, but wasn't born physically into a human body until later. He always existed though.
There is nothing to support that, and even Jesus denied it. By saying otherwise you are accusing Jesus of being a liar.
You try to quote something I never said (typical fundamentalist tactic). I said that Life AFTER Death does not exist, not that Life AND Death do not exist.
That's not what the Bible says: Paul writes: Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Da 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Another typical Creationist action - to crowbar something totally unrelated into another matter altogether, trying to make it relevant. My statement was regarding what YOU tried to say that I had ACTUALLY said. My statement was pointing out that I had said one thing & you said that I had said something totally different. It was a statement that you were, as usual, misrepresenting the facts.
The two statements are totally different. Life & Death are very real things. You cannot have one without the other. If there is Life After Death then it is in the sense that something has to die in order for something else to live. Then when that thing dies it, in turn, gives life to something else, in the form of food & nourishment.
Not Biblical.
I never said it was Biblical. Life and Death are factual. The Bible is not.
If there is a life 'energy' (which I accept as a possibility, as it is potentially possible under the 1st Law of Conservation of Energy), then that energy is passed on to the next life. That energy, in the abstract sense 'could' be regarded as a 'soul', although it has no conciousness. If anything, this more supports the Buddhist / Hindu typre Religions that believe in reincarnation.
What do you base your beliefs on?
Basic rules of physics. However, the major difference is that I don't claim this to be true. I don't claim that this has been researched & proved to be the case. It is not even anecdotal. It is simply what I believe. It is my own hypothesis, based on the base Laws of Physics. An opinion. A belief does not even require justification, although I believe there is some degree of logical justification to substantiate my belief.
The only key word that comes close to being accurate in your statement is 'anecdotal', although technically that is not 'evidence'. Anecdotal is like "I was talking to bloke down the pub who said his Brother's mate said such & such a thing". That is anecdotal, but there is no way it can be classed as evidence.
Yes it can. When you have millions of people with similar stories. Also, they use testimony all of the time in Courts of law to make their case.
Millions of people believe in Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy. That is anecdotal. If a defendant in a Court Case were to use the alibi that he was in conference with Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy at the time the crime was committed, do you really believe the Court would accept that evidence?
There are anecdotes of people having died & floated in the air looking down from above on their dead body.
Yes and describing all of the events which took place when they were brain dead and there is no way of knowing.
I also covered that there is also a great deal of uncertainty about just what defines being 'Brain Dead'.
Lucid dreaming has exactly the same effect - something I experience quite often, but I don't claim to have died every time I do so.
They couldn't have been lucid dreaming if they had no brain waves as many of them experienced.
As above. Just what is "Brain Death". If a jelly is recorded as having life signs on an EEG, does than mean that the jelly is not Brain Dead?
I also know that Southampton University Hospital Trust (and possibly some other institutes as well) have run scientific experiments to test the validity of such claims by placing clear, simple symbols & pictures at points which may only be seen from the positions where the person in question claims to have been in the rooms where sudden deaths are most likely to happen, such as critical operating theatres & A&E wards. So far, not one has ever been able to correctly identify any of these symbols.
I know. But that doesn't mean that there isn't anything happening that is very real. I have experienced out of body experiences many times and saw the room and evil spirits as well. I also know many people who have participated in astral projection (Which I believe is demonic). I have been awakened by these people from my sleep and heard them talking at the foot of my bed when I woke up.
That is exactly the point. It is a dream - and dreams can appear very real. So much so that there are times when people can't remember whether something was really experienced or whether it was just a dream. As a consequence it is not uncommon to think their dream was real & then relate to others that it was something that actually happened - and suddenly you have the seeds of a Religion.
Whilst dreaming in REM sleep, in reality a dream which may seem to last hours or days only lasts a few seconds.
I know that. However, many people believe that when we sleep and dream, we enter a spiritual reality. In the spirit realm, there is no time. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it could explain why.
I can accept that. As stated in a previous answer, a personal belief does not require substantiation. However, it also doesn't make it real, but I accept that a belief may seem very real to the individual.
Furthermore, the condition of 'Brain Death' at many stages can be extremely contoversial. If you putt an EEG on a jelly it will actually give readings that would indicate life. Nobody knows, for certain, at what stage the brain actually dies, so to say that a person was brain dead for, say 10 minutes, would be meaningless. It just means that there were no visible signs of life to our level of understanding. However, with methods of medical science circumstances change & the patient can often be recovered. During which time, of course, the brain has received a trauma, which it often interprets in the form of lucid dreaming. That does not prove a life after death whatsoever. There are also many examples where people have been thought to have been dead, but have, in fact, been in shock & have actually recovered on their own with no other intervention.
Don Piper, who has spoken at my Church and wrote the Book 90 minutes in heaven, was pronounced dead after being examined by Parametics who do this every day and was brain dead 1 1/2 hours only to come back and tell what he saw in heaven. I believe the man was really dead, especially given the other circumstances around his story. You can't dismiss it. Not to meantion "Heaven is for real" by Colton Burpo, 23 minutes in Hell by Bill Weise. These stories are compelling. I have also had my own experiences which give me no doubt of the after life and the Spiritual reality around us.
What we actually know about the workings of the Human Brain is akin to a single hair on the entire Human Body. If a person is dead, then they are dead. If a person is thought to be dead & later lives, then the original belief of their having been dead in the first place was clearly flawed.
Therefore, IF jesus had existed (something that there is also no proof of) & he was seen to be alive after his 'death', that would be one possible explanation for it. Remember, they wouldn't have the skills of a modern doctor to check for the slightest sign of life back then. Things would just be taken for granted. It doesn't prove that he ever actually died. As you rightfully accept - all of this is anecdotal.
There is LOTS of proof that Jesus existed. There are DOZENS of historical writings from his day and shortly thereafter. He WAS seen to be alive after His death and resurrection, Hence the eyewitness testimony of the Biblical writers including His disciples, Jesus's half brothers and others. The death of Christ was very real. The Roman guards did this for a living and would have been killed themselves had they not really killed Jesus. Especially someone as high profile as Christ Jesus.
There may be plenty of historical writings from his day, but none of them making any mention of him. 'Eyewitness Tesetimony' as you call it, was nothing of the sort. It was all anecdotal, written hundreds of years after the alleged event.
For you to say that Life after Death DOES exist is an utter unfounded fallacy. What may be true to say is that you BELIEVE it does exist. You can believe in whatever you like - fairies, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas. Believing it doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may want it to be so.
It's Biblical. It's anecdotal. I've experienced many MANY of these things myself. Miracles in my family that cannot be explained away. It's not just a belief. It's collaborated by millions and millions of people. Frankly, it's ridiculous NOT to believe it.
There's that word again - anecdotal. Your entire argument from beginning to end hangs on that single word. "Anecdotal".
(incidentally, I think the word you meant was corroborated - collaborated means to plot together to make something up - then again, perhaps you were right about that after all).
The OED definition of Anecdotal...
Anecdotal
adjective
1(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
‘while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact’
1.1 Characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes.
‘her book is anecdotal and chatty’
1.2 (of a painting) depicting small narrative incidents.
‘nineteenth century French anecdotal paintings’
Interesting. That's not what the Bible says of Jesus though: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Collosians is New Testament - written long after the alleged birth of Jesus. The Earth was existent long before the NT - even according to the Bible.
You claim him to be the Son of God. So who was the Mother? Mary. And when did Mary come into the picture? Not for several thousand years later.
He is the Son of God, but wasn't born physically into a human body until later. He always existed though.
There is nothing to support that, and even Jesus denied it. By saying otherwise you are accusing Jesus of being a liar.
You try to quote something I never said (typical fundamentalist tactic). I said that Life AFTER Death does not exist, not that Life AND Death do not exist.
That's not what the Bible says: Paul writes: Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Da 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Another typical Creationist action - to crowbar something totally unrelated into another matter altogether, trying to make it relevant. My statement was regarding what YOU tried to say that I had ACTUALLY said. My statement was pointing out that I had said one thing & you said that I had said something totally different. It was a statement that you were, as usual, misrepresenting the facts.
The two statements are totally different. Life & Death are very real things. You cannot have one without the other. If there is Life After Death then it is in the sense that something has to die in order for something else to live. Then when that thing dies it, in turn, gives life to something else, in the form of food & nourishment.
Not Biblical.
I never said it was Biblical. Life and Death are factual. The Bible is not.
If there is a life 'energy' (which I accept as a possibility, as it is potentially possible under the 1st Law of Conservation of Energy), then that energy is passed on to the next life. That energy, in the abstract sense 'could' be regarded as a 'soul', although it has no conciousness. If anything, this more supports the Buddhist / Hindu typre Religions that believe in reincarnation.
What do you base your beliefs on?
Basic rules of physics. However, the major difference is that I don't claim this to be true. I don't claim that this has been researched & proved to be the case. It is not even anecdotal. It is simply what I believe. It is my own hypothesis, based on the base Laws of Physics. An opinion. A belief does not even require justification, although I believe there is some degree of logical justification to substantiate my belief.
The only key word that comes close to being accurate in your statement is 'anecdotal', although technically that is not 'evidence'. Anecdotal is like "I was talking to bloke down the pub who said his Brother's mate said such & such a thing". That is anecdotal, but there is no way it can be classed as evidence.
Yes it can. When you have millions of people with similar stories. Also, they use testimony all of the time in Courts of law to make their case.
Millions of people believe in Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy. That is anecdotal. If a defendant in a Court Case were to use the alibi that he was in conference with Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy at the time the crime was committed, do you really believe the Court would accept that evidence?
There are anecdotes of people having died & floated in the air looking down from above on their dead body.
Yes and describing all of the events which took place when they were brain dead and there is no way of knowing.
I also covered that there is also a great deal of uncertainty about just what defines being 'Brain Dead'.
Lucid dreaming has exactly the same effect - something I experience quite often, but I don't claim to have died every time I do so.
They couldn't have been lucid dreaming if they had no brain waves as many of them experienced.
As above. Just what is "Brain Death". If a jelly is recorded as having life signs on an EEG, does than mean that the jelly is not Brain Dead?
I also know that Southampton University Hospital Trust (and possibly some other institutes as well) have run scientific experiments to test the validity of such claims by placing clear, simple symbols & pictures at points which may only be seen from the positions where the person in question claims to have been in the rooms where sudden deaths are most likely to happen, such as critical operating theatres & A&E wards. So far, not one has ever been able to correctly identify any of these symbols.
I know. But that doesn't mean that there isn't anything happening that is very real. I have experienced out of body experiences many times and saw the room and evil spirits as well. I also know many people who have participated in astral projection (Which I believe is demonic). I have been awakened by these people from my sleep and heard them talking at the foot of my bed when I woke up.
That is exactly the point. It is a dream - and dreams can appear very real. So much so that there are times when people can't remember whether something was really experienced or whether it was just a dream. As a consequence it is not uncommon to think their dream was real & then relate to others that it was something that actually happened - and suddenly you have the seeds of a Religion.
Whilst dreaming in REM sleep, in reality a dream which may seem to last hours or days only lasts a few seconds.
I know that. However, many people believe that when we sleep and dream, we enter a spiritual reality. In the spirit realm, there is no time. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it could explain why.
I can accept that. As stated in a previous answer, a personal belief does not require substantiation. However, it also doesn't make it real, but I accept that a belief may seem very real to the individual.
Furthermore, the condition of 'Brain Death' at many stages can be extremely contoversial. If you putt an EEG on a jelly it will actually give readings that would indicate life. Nobody knows, for certain, at what stage the brain actually dies, so to say that a person was brain dead for, say 10 minutes, would be meaningless. It just means that there were no visible signs of life to our level of understanding. However, with methods of medical science circumstances change & the patient can often be recovered. During which time, of course, the brain has received a trauma, which it often interprets in the form of lucid dreaming. That does not prove a life after death whatsoever. There are also many examples where people have been thought to have been dead, but have, in fact, been in shock & have actually recovered on their own with no other intervention.
Don Piper, who has spoken at my Church and wrote the Book 90 minutes in heaven, was pronounced dead after being examined by Parametics who do this every day and was brain dead 1 1/2 hours only to come back and tell what he saw in heaven. I believe the man was really dead, especially given the other circumstances around his story. You can't dismiss it. Not to meantion "Heaven is for real" by Colton Burpo, 23 minutes in Hell by Bill Weise. These stories are compelling. I have also had my own experiences which give me no doubt of the after life and the Spiritual reality around us.
What we actually know about the workings of the Human Brain is akin to a single hair on the entire Human Body. If a person is dead, then they are dead. If a person is thought to be dead & later lives, then the original belief of their having been dead in the first place was clearly flawed.
Therefore, IF jesus had existed (something that there is also no proof of) & he was seen to be alive after his 'death', that would be one possible explanation for it. Remember, they wouldn't have the skills of a modern doctor to check for the slightest sign of life back then. Things would just be taken for granted. It doesn't prove that he ever actually died. As you rightfully accept - all of this is anecdotal.
There is LOTS of proof that Jesus existed. There are DOZENS of historical writings from his day and shortly thereafter. He WAS seen to be alive after His death and resurrection, Hence the eyewitness testimony of the Biblical writers including His disciples, Jesus's half brothers and others. The death of Christ was very real. The Roman guards did this for a living and would have been killed themselves had they not really killed Jesus. Especially someone as high profile as Christ Jesus.
There may be plenty of historical writings from his day, but none of them making any mention of him. 'Eyewitness Tesetimony' as you call it, was nothing of the sort. It was all anecdotal, written hundreds of years after the alleged event.
For you to say that Life after Death DOES exist is an utter unfounded fallacy. What may be true to say is that you BELIEVE it does exist. You can believe in whatever you like - fairies, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas. Believing it doesn't make it so, no matter how much you may want it to be so.
It's Biblical. It's anecdotal. I've experienced many MANY of these things myself. Miracles in my family that cannot be explained away. It's not just a belief. It's collaborated by millions and millions of people. Frankly, it's ridiculous NOT to believe it.
There's that word again - anecdotal. Your entire argument from beginning to end hangs on that single word. "Anecdotal".
(incidentally, I think the word you meant was corroborated - collaborated means to plot together to make something up - then again, perhaps you were right about that after all).
The OED definition of Anecdotal...
Anecdotal
adjective
1(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
‘while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact’
1.1 Characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes.
‘her book is anecdotal and chatty’
1.2 (of a painting) depicting small narrative incidents.
‘nineteenth century French anecdotal paintings’
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xfrodobagginsx
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LarsMac;1512746 wrote: You mean that they draw difference conclusions based on their beliefs.
No that's what evolutionists do. But it's good to know that the evidence lines up with the Bible.
No that's what evolutionists do. But it's good to know that the evidence lines up with the Bible.
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Fuzzy;1512747 wrote: Writings upon writings. You may call them proof a million times. They still don't prove what you like to believe. Holding stubbornly unto an ancient, obsolete belief system only proves one thing.
They are eyewitness testimony. They are strong evidence when compared to other evidence.
They are eyewitness testimony. They are strong evidence when compared to other evidence.
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Fuzzy;1512748 wrote: This is funny. I have also told you many times and you are not listening.:wah::yh_rotfl:wah:
You're not. You won't even look at what I provide or consider it.
You're not. You won't even look at what I provide or consider it.
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WHICH GOD EXISTS:
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512802 wrote: You're not. You won't even look at what I provide or consider it.
You're wrong. I consider absolutely everything religionists say and then dismiss anything which doesn't make sense or which I cannot find proof for.
You're wrong. I consider absolutely everything religionists say and then dismiss anything which doesn't make sense or which I cannot find proof for.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512787 wrote: They are eyewitness testimony. They are strong evidence when compared to other evidence.
There is no eyewitness testimony. It is all anectdotal, written years after it was supposed to have happened. The supposed 'eyewitnesses' hadn't even been born. Word of mouth folklore is NOT evidence. There is no evidence of anything to do with his existence. No census. Nothing. There is plenty of hard evidence of other people's existence of the time, but there is no record of a national census. No record of his existence. No record of his trial or execution. If he was supposed to have troubled the great leaders as much as the Bible would have us believe, don't you think that somewhere there should be some kind of hard record of it, as well as the rest of such major events? Doesn't it strike you as strange that in over 2000 years, nothing has come to light to prove that any of this actually happened?
There is no eyewitness testimony. It is all anectdotal, written years after it was supposed to have happened. The supposed 'eyewitnesses' hadn't even been born. Word of mouth folklore is NOT evidence. There is no evidence of anything to do with his existence. No census. Nothing. There is plenty of hard evidence of other people's existence of the time, but there is no record of a national census. No record of his existence. No record of his trial or execution. If he was supposed to have troubled the great leaders as much as the Bible would have us believe, don't you think that somewhere there should be some kind of hard record of it, as well as the rest of such major events? Doesn't it strike you as strange that in over 2000 years, nothing has come to light to prove that any of this actually happened?
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xfrodobagginsx
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Fuzzy;1512811 wrote: You're wrong. I consider absolutely everything religionists say and then dismiss anything which doesn't make sense or which I cannot find proof for.
So you can honestly tell me that you read the information and links I post and watch the videos?
So you can honestly tell me that you read the information and links I post and watch the videos?
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512825 wrote: So you can honestly tell me that you read the information and links I post and watch the videos?
I have seen and heard it all so many times which means that I have dismissed it every time. I don't read repeats anymore.
If you want to present rock hard proof I will take a look at it. Mind you, I don't believe there is any rock hard proof at all and the stories will never change due to
religionists believing that the bible is 100% correct.
If there were empirical evidence, not the evidence you keep referring to, the scientific world would know about it. Scientists would only be too happy to prove your beliefs to be true. But that would be mission impossible. So, I think, you'll have to stick with your faith version of what is true and what is not.
I have seen and heard it all so many times which means that I have dismissed it every time. I don't read repeats anymore.
If you want to present rock hard proof I will take a look at it. Mind you, I don't believe there is any rock hard proof at all and the stories will never change due to
religionists believing that the bible is 100% correct.
If there were empirical evidence, not the evidence you keep referring to, the scientific world would know about it. Scientists would only be too happy to prove your beliefs to be true. But that would be mission impossible. So, I think, you'll have to stick with your faith version of what is true and what is not.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512821 wrote: There is no eyewitness testimony. It is all anectdotal, written years after it was supposed to have happened. The supposed 'eyewitnesses' hadn't even been born. Word of mouth folklore is NOT evidence. There is no evidence of anything to do with his existence. No census. Nothing. There is plenty of hard evidence of other people's existence of the time, but there is no record of a national census. No record of his existence. No record of his trial or execution. If he was supposed to have troubled the great leaders as much as the Bible would have us believe, don't you think that somewhere there should be some kind of hard record of it, as well as the rest of such major events? Doesn't it strike you as strange that in over 2000 years, nothing has come to light to prove that any of this actually happened?
Yes there is. You can't lie to me. I know the truth. The Bible IS eyewitness testimony. Is the history of the US anecdotal? Give me a break. So, are you saying that you don't believe the historians that George Washington was the 1st President of the US? Everyone is lying and you know the truth right? Yes the eyewitnesses had been born. They knew Jesus personally. His disciples, His half brothers, Paul wrote the New Testament. Historians from Christ's day including Roman Historians wrote of Christ? They are lying too? There IS record of His execution in the Historical writings. You really don't know what you are talking about and yet, not only do you reject Christ's gospel, you are trying to deceive others into rejecting it as well. I have posted this evidence even many times.
Yes there is. You can't lie to me. I know the truth. The Bible IS eyewitness testimony. Is the history of the US anecdotal? Give me a break. So, are you saying that you don't believe the historians that George Washington was the 1st President of the US? Everyone is lying and you know the truth right? Yes the eyewitnesses had been born. They knew Jesus personally. His disciples, His half brothers, Paul wrote the New Testament. Historians from Christ's day including Roman Historians wrote of Christ? They are lying too? There IS record of His execution in the Historical writings. You really don't know what you are talking about and yet, not only do you reject Christ's gospel, you are trying to deceive others into rejecting it as well. I have posted this evidence even many times.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1512827 wrote: I have seen and heard it all so many times which means that I have dismissed it every time. I don't read repeats anymore.
If you want to present rock hard proof I will take a look at it. Mind you, I don't believe there is any rock hard proof at all and the stories will never change due to
religionists believing that the bible is 100% correct.
If there were empirical evidence, not the evidence you keep referring to, the scientific world would know about it. Scientists would only be too happy to prove your beliefs to be true. But that would be mission impossible. So, I think, you'll have to stick with your faith version of what is true and what is not.
So, you are shutting your ears to it. I have presented hard rock proof. I have given you the actual historical writings, yet to attempt to dismiss them. I think that you wouldn't believe if Jesus Christ Himself came down and told you. You believe the historians about George Washington, but not about Jesus? Interesting. Scientific evidence like what? The Shroud of Turin? It's debatable, but it's possibly the shoud of Christ. The eyewitness writings are evidence. The Church writings are evidence. What do you want a movie? They didn't have them back then. But the Shroud is possibly an ancient photograph of Christ. Evolutionists would NOT be happy to prove these things true. It's quite the opposite.
If you want to present rock hard proof I will take a look at it. Mind you, I don't believe there is any rock hard proof at all and the stories will never change due to
religionists believing that the bible is 100% correct.
If there were empirical evidence, not the evidence you keep referring to, the scientific world would know about it. Scientists would only be too happy to prove your beliefs to be true. But that would be mission impossible. So, I think, you'll have to stick with your faith version of what is true and what is not.
So, you are shutting your ears to it. I have presented hard rock proof. I have given you the actual historical writings, yet to attempt to dismiss them. I think that you wouldn't believe if Jesus Christ Himself came down and told you. You believe the historians about George Washington, but not about Jesus? Interesting. Scientific evidence like what? The Shroud of Turin? It's debatable, but it's possibly the shoud of Christ. The eyewitness writings are evidence. The Church writings are evidence. What do you want a movie? They didn't have them back then. But the Shroud is possibly an ancient photograph of Christ. Evolutionists would NOT be happy to prove these things true. It's quite the opposite.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Kent Hovind on Carbon Dating and the Age of the Earth
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
:-6:-3:-2:wah:
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Watch the entire video and there is no doubt dinosaurs walked with men. You may want to skip to about 30 minutes into it. That's when he gets into the hard evidence. Don't watch 10 minutes of it and say "that doesn't prove anything" Skip to about 30 minutes into it and then listen.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 1
Part 2
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Dinosaur Carbon 14 Evidence Video
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512900 wrote: Watch the entire video and there is no doubt dinosaurs walked with men. You may want to skip to about 30 minutes into it. That's when he gets into the hard evidence. Don't watch 10 minutes of it and say "that doesn't prove anything" Skip to about 30 minutes into it and then listen.
Part 1
Part 2
Take the time to watch it.
Part 1
Part 2
Take the time to watch it.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1512049 wrote: Something does not have to be factually accurate to be true. The parables of Jesus were made up stories to make a point. That point was true. The Bible is like that. The book is metaphorical.
You're kidding right? The Parables of Jesus may have been made up to make a point, but not every story that you think is a parable is a made up story. Example: The Rich Man and Lazarus is not a parable because it uses proper names. Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were all real people.
You're kidding right? The Parables of Jesus may have been made up to make a point, but not every story that you think is a parable is a made up story. Example: The Rich Man and Lazarus is not a parable because it uses proper names. Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were all real people.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
LarsMac;1512055 wrote: Show me where the Bible actually says Hell is real.
Here's something I wrote a few years ago:
There are some religions out there who teach that there is no such thing as Hell. Some teach that hell is the only the grave. Some teach that hell is a place where souls are burned up in an instant. But that is not what the bible teaches. Today, I am going to demonstrate though the word of God that hell is a literal place of torment.
Where is hell?
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(KJV)
Hell is down. Most bible scholars believe that it is in the center of the earth.
Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(KJV)
Jesus's body remained on the earth, but His Spirit went to the heart of the earth, or center. Where is the heart of something located? In the center.
What is Hell?
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Hell is a prison. It is a prison for those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. Hell is no laughing matter. There is no party in hell.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. {strange: Gr. other}
(KJV)
Lu 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
First of all notice that this man was not happy. It says that he was tormented in this FLAME. Hell is fire. It is an eternal flame that never goes out.
Mr 9:3 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
It says where their worm dieth not and the FIRE is NOT quenched. Hell is eternal torment by fire.
Hell is outer darkness. There is no light there. It is pitch black, forever.
Mt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mt 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Lu 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Who goes to hell, and what is after hell?
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(KJV)
One day after everyone has been judged, hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The devil is going to be cast into the lake of fire. Notice that it is a place of torment and that torment never ends.
Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(KJV)
Those who reject Jesus Christ and accept the mark of the beast are going to the lake of fire.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)
Those who reject Jesus Christ won't be found written in the book of life. They also will be cast into the lake of fire.
There is only one way out. That way is Jesus Christ.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Who is God willing to save from hell and the lake of fire?
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How do we do this?
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ro 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
The bible says that whosoever believeth on Him shall NOT be ashamed. Are you willing to accept Jesus Christ today to be your Savior? Don't be ashamed. Raise your hand right now if you want Jesus Christ to save you and someone will show you from the bible, God's word how you can know without a doubt that you will go to heaven when you die and that you won't have to go to this place called hell.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
God is willing to save ANYONE no matter what you have done, if you will simply call upon upon Jesus Christ to save you. Will you do that today?
Here's something I wrote a few years ago:
There are some religions out there who teach that there is no such thing as Hell. Some teach that hell is the only the grave. Some teach that hell is a place where souls are burned up in an instant. But that is not what the bible teaches. Today, I am going to demonstrate though the word of God that hell is a literal place of torment.
Where is hell?
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(KJV)
Hell is down. Most bible scholars believe that it is in the center of the earth.
Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(KJV)
Jesus's body remained on the earth, but His Spirit went to the heart of the earth, or center. Where is the heart of something located? In the center.
What is Hell?
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Hell is a prison. It is a prison for those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. Hell is no laughing matter. There is no party in hell.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. {strange: Gr. other}
(KJV)
Lu 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
First of all notice that this man was not happy. It says that he was tormented in this FLAME. Hell is fire. It is an eternal flame that never goes out.
Mr 9:3 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
It says where their worm dieth not and the FIRE is NOT quenched. Hell is eternal torment by fire.
Hell is outer darkness. There is no light there. It is pitch black, forever.
Mt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mt 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Lu 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Who goes to hell, and what is after hell?
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(KJV)
One day after everyone has been judged, hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The devil is going to be cast into the lake of fire. Notice that it is a place of torment and that torment never ends.
Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(KJV)
Those who reject Jesus Christ and accept the mark of the beast are going to the lake of fire.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)
Those who reject Jesus Christ won't be found written in the book of life. They also will be cast into the lake of fire.
There is only one way out. That way is Jesus Christ.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Who is God willing to save from hell and the lake of fire?
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How do we do this?
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ro 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
The bible says that whosoever believeth on Him shall NOT be ashamed. Are you willing to accept Jesus Christ today to be your Savior? Don't be ashamed. Raise your hand right now if you want Jesus Christ to save you and someone will show you from the bible, God's word how you can know without a doubt that you will go to heaven when you die and that you won't have to go to this place called hell.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
God is willing to save ANYONE no matter what you have done, if you will simply call upon upon Jesus Christ to save you. Will you do that today?
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512880 wrote: So, you are shutting your ears to it.
My ears are not shut to anything.
I have presented hard rock proof.
No you haven't. You only gave an opinion.
I have given you the actual historical writings,
They prove nothing to me.
yet to attempt to dismiss them.
I don't attempt to dismiss them. I have actually dismissed them.
I think that you wouldn't believe if Jesus Christ Himself came down and told you.
Jesus Christ is dead. He won't be back. He probably never lived.
Scientific evidence like what? The Shroud of Turin? It's debatable, but it's possibly the shoud of Christ.
Or perhaps another hoax.
The eyewitness writings are evidence. The Church writings are evidence.
I don't think they prove anything though. Anyone can write anything and we can't ask the so told witnesses anymore. Therefore it is only hearsay.
Good Night, and may your god go with you.:yh_worshp:yh_alien2
My ears are not shut to anything.
I have presented hard rock proof.
No you haven't. You only gave an opinion.
I have given you the actual historical writings,
They prove nothing to me.
yet to attempt to dismiss them.
I don't attempt to dismiss them. I have actually dismissed them.
I think that you wouldn't believe if Jesus Christ Himself came down and told you.
Jesus Christ is dead. He won't be back. He probably never lived.
Scientific evidence like what? The Shroud of Turin? It's debatable, but it's possibly the shoud of Christ.
Or perhaps another hoax.
The eyewitness writings are evidence. The Church writings are evidence.
I don't think they prove anything though. Anyone can write anything and we can't ask the so told witnesses anymore. Therefore it is only hearsay.
Good Night, and may your god go with you.:yh_worshp:yh_alien2
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512839 wrote: Yes there is. You can't lie to me. I know the truth. The Bible IS eyewitness testimony. Is the history of the US anecdotal? Give me a break. So, are you saying that you don't believe the historians that George Washington was the 1st President of the US? Everyone is lying and you know the truth right? Yes the eyewitnesses had been born. They knew Jesus personally. His disciples, His half brothers, Paul wrote the New Testament. Historians from Christ's day including Roman Historians wrote of Christ? They are lying too? There IS record of His execution in the Historical writings. You really don't know what you are talking about and yet, not only do you reject Christ's gospel, you are trying to deceive others into rejecting it as well. I have posted this evidence even many times.
So that is your proof? The Bible is true because you 'know it to be so'? You could use the same argument for Father Christmas.
Despite scholars having desperately searched for hard proof of his existence nothing has ever been found. Just where is this record of his execution? How come the scholars who have been searching for centuries are not aware of this documentary 'proof'? The only thing that has ever come close to being classed as 'proof' was Tacitus, which was later proved to have been deliberately edited in order to change its meaning.
As you say, you may have posted this many times, but none of it is 'evidence'. If you have any such evidence then I'm sure the Biblical Scholars would be interested in knowing about it. Testimony from the very document that is in question cannot be taken as being 'evidence'. On the other hand, I have posted numerous sources of evidence to discount it.
JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE
So that is your proof? The Bible is true because you 'know it to be so'? You could use the same argument for Father Christmas.
Despite scholars having desperately searched for hard proof of his existence nothing has ever been found. Just where is this record of his execution? How come the scholars who have been searching for centuries are not aware of this documentary 'proof'? The only thing that has ever come close to being classed as 'proof' was Tacitus, which was later proved to have been deliberately edited in order to change its meaning.
As you say, you may have posted this many times, but none of it is 'evidence'. If you have any such evidence then I'm sure the Biblical Scholars would be interested in knowing about it. Testimony from the very document that is in question cannot be taken as being 'evidence'. On the other hand, I have posted numerous sources of evidence to discount it.
JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1512925 wrote: Good Night, and may your god go with you.:yh_worshp:yh_alien2
My God IS with me. We haven't even gotten into the miracles that God has done in my life and the life of others. Care to discuss that aspect?
My God IS with me. We haven't even gotten into the miracles that God has done in my life and the life of others. Care to discuss that aspect?
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1512936 wrote: My God IS with me. We haven't even gotten into the miracles that God has done in my life and the life of others. Care to discuss that aspect?
Come up with one documented miracle that can't be explained scientifically. Once again - nothing anecdotal.
Come up with one documented miracle that can't be explained scientifically. Once again - nothing anecdotal.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512928 wrote: So that is your proof? The Bible is true because you 'know it to be so'? You could use the same argument for Father Christmas.
Despite scholars having desperately searched for hard proof of his existence nothing has ever been found. Just where is this record of his execution? How come the scholars who have been searching for centuries are not aware of this documentary 'proof'? The only thing that has ever come close to being classed as 'proof' was Tacitus, which was later proved to have been deliberately edited in order to change its meaning.
As you say, you may have posted this many times, but none of it is 'evidence'. If you have any such evidence then I'm sure the Biblical Scholars would be interested in knowing about it. Testimony from the very document that is in question cannot be taken as being 'evidence'. On the other hand, I have posted numerous sources of evidence to discount it.
JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE
There are many MANY reasons why the Bible is true. Is that how weak YOUR argument is that you have to make up false narratives? Straw man? I didn't say "The Bible is true because I 'know it to be so" The end. Never said that. Be truthful when you discuss if you really want to find the truth. The record of His execution are in the Historical writings would you like to see them? It's in the eyewitness testimony would you like to see them? Josephus writings, would you like to see them? The Church history. Extra Biblical writings? Tactis has not been discredited, but even if he has, I don't need his writings.
Despite scholars having desperately searched for hard proof of his existence nothing has ever been found. Just where is this record of his execution? How come the scholars who have been searching for centuries are not aware of this documentary 'proof'? The only thing that has ever come close to being classed as 'proof' was Tacitus, which was later proved to have been deliberately edited in order to change its meaning.
As you say, you may have posted this many times, but none of it is 'evidence'. If you have any such evidence then I'm sure the Biblical Scholars would be interested in knowing about it. Testimony from the very document that is in question cannot be taken as being 'evidence'. On the other hand, I have posted numerous sources of evidence to discount it.
JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE
There are many MANY reasons why the Bible is true. Is that how weak YOUR argument is that you have to make up false narratives? Straw man? I didn't say "The Bible is true because I 'know it to be so" The end. Never said that. Be truthful when you discuss if you really want to find the truth. The record of His execution are in the Historical writings would you like to see them? It's in the eyewitness testimony would you like to see them? Josephus writings, would you like to see them? The Church history. Extra Biblical writings? Tactis has not been discredited, but even if he has, I don't need his writings.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1512940 wrote: Come up with one documented miracle that can't be explained scientifically. Once again - nothing anecdotal.
Would you like a personal one or one where the man was ran over by a semi, declared dead 3 times by different paramedics, a preacher heard God tell him to pray for the dead man, When the preacher prayed for the dead man, he came back to life after 90 minutes. The dead man later claimed to be in heaven and described what he saw. He also spent the better part of a year in the hospital recovering from his injuries, which the Doctors say he should have died from.
Would you like to hear more about this one
Or I could tell you about my family where the Lord showed up.
Several years ago, My cousin was playing with a lighter in his bedroom. He caught a newspaper or comic book or something on fire and threw it on his bed. There were several people sleeping there. The whole house went up in flames. Everyone got out except for my 3 year old cousin sarah. They had written her off as dead. The whole house was in flames and filled with smoke. An off duty fireman happened to be driving by and saw the smoke. He stopped to help. He looked into the bedroom window and saw her sitting under the window with her hands on her head. He pulled her out and she was burned and has some scars to this day. He asked her how she knew to come over to that window and sit on the ground. She said that the man in the fire told her "Don't be afraid, to go over to the window sit down and put your hands over your head and face". Years later, she recounted her story with me. She said that the man had no face, light shining from it, he was 3 feet tall and dressed in white. He was floating in the corner of the room. My Grandparents were deeply committed Christians. Often times my Grandmother would be up all night, having trouble sleeping, praying for the safety of the family. At the same exact time that the fire was going on, my grandmother was several miles away sleeping in her bed. She heard a voice that told her "There's been a fire, Liz and the kids got out ok". A few minutes later, my Grandfather got the call on the phone "There's been a fire, liz and the kids got out ok" He tried to tell her what they said, but she already knew. The reason that God Spoke to her, I believe, is because it was HER prayer that the Lord was answering. Otherwise, my cousin would have died in the fire.
Would you like a personal one or one where the man was ran over by a semi, declared dead 3 times by different paramedics, a preacher heard God tell him to pray for the dead man, When the preacher prayed for the dead man, he came back to life after 90 minutes. The dead man later claimed to be in heaven and described what he saw. He also spent the better part of a year in the hospital recovering from his injuries, which the Doctors say he should have died from.
Would you like to hear more about this one
Or I could tell you about my family where the Lord showed up.
Several years ago, My cousin was playing with a lighter in his bedroom. He caught a newspaper or comic book or something on fire and threw it on his bed. There were several people sleeping there. The whole house went up in flames. Everyone got out except for my 3 year old cousin sarah. They had written her off as dead. The whole house was in flames and filled with smoke. An off duty fireman happened to be driving by and saw the smoke. He stopped to help. He looked into the bedroom window and saw her sitting under the window with her hands on her head. He pulled her out and she was burned and has some scars to this day. He asked her how she knew to come over to that window and sit on the ground. She said that the man in the fire told her "Don't be afraid, to go over to the window sit down and put your hands over your head and face". Years later, she recounted her story with me. She said that the man had no face, light shining from it, he was 3 feet tall and dressed in white. He was floating in the corner of the room. My Grandparents were deeply committed Christians. Often times my Grandmother would be up all night, having trouble sleeping, praying for the safety of the family. At the same exact time that the fire was going on, my grandmother was several miles away sleeping in her bed. She heard a voice that told her "There's been a fire, Liz and the kids got out ok". A few minutes later, my Grandfather got the call on the phone "There's been a fire, liz and the kids got out ok" He tried to tell her what they said, but she already knew. The reason that God Spoke to her, I believe, is because it was HER prayer that the Lord was answering. Otherwise, my cousin would have died in the fire.
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xfrodobagginsx
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xfrodobagginsx
- Posts: 2545
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:27 am
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
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Proof evolution is WRONG
Scientific Evidence for Creation Home page
Proof evolution is WRONG
Scientific Evidence for Creation Home page
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
What nonsense. A literal reading of the Bible simply obscures the real beauty and truths in the Bible. A literal reading of the Bible presents us with absurdities. We go to church every Sunday but I can even take my brain into the service. I do not need to hang my braisn on the coat rack before I join in.
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xfrodobagginsx
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- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:27 am
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1513003 wrote: What nonsense. A literal reading of the Bible simply obscures the real beauty and truths in the Bible. A literal reading of the Bible presents us with absurdities. We go to church every Sunday but I can even take my brain into the service. I do not need to hang my braisn on the coat rack before I join in.
The only way to read the Bible is to actually believe what it says. There are areas where it is clear that it's metaphor, but it will specify in those cases. I am glad that I don't leave my brain on the coat rack either. I simply believe God for what He says.
The only way to read the Bible is to actually believe what it says. There are areas where it is clear that it's metaphor, but it will specify in those cases. I am glad that I don't leave my brain on the coat rack either. I simply believe God for what He says.
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xfrodobagginsx
- Posts: 2545
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:27 am
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1513003 wrote: What nonsense. A literal reading of the Bible simply obscures the real beauty and truths in the Bible. A literal reading of the Bible presents us with absurdities. We go to church every Sunday but I can even take my brain into the service. I do not need to hang my braisn on the coat rack before I join in.
So, you read it but you don't actually believe anything that's written? Is that the way that I should interpret the things that you are writing? Just interpret it the way that I wish you were thinking rather than what you are actually saying?
So, you read it but you don't actually believe anything that's written? Is that the way that I should interpret the things that you are writing? Just interpret it the way that I wish you were thinking rather than what you are actually saying?