If your not interested in God, then why are you so interested?

Townes · Post by **Townes** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:53 am

Ah, I am afraid you are a bit wrong on the definitions, here is a full explanation of agnosticism/gnosticism and theism/atheism compass.

What’s the difference between an atheist and an agnostic? | Atheist Community of Tulsa

Both theists and atheists are either gnostic or agnostic, the four are not mutually exclusive.

And the stuff about god's reality is called reality denialism, there is currently no testable verifiable proof of any deity/deities' existance. I am sure there was a fallacy about this statement, don't remember how it was called.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:37 pm

Bring me your God and expose him/her/it as a fraud.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:15 pm

Mickiel;1420813 wrote: Humans are not born Atheist, if anything, they are born Agnostic, having no opinion either way; we are born nuetral, we are not born unbelieving in God. We are not born Theist or Atheist, we are born having no clue as to what to believe. And most Atheist still have no clue as to what to believe, because their minds are still childlike in the area of God's reality.
What do you think of this Mickiel?

The Evolution of the God Gene

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weeki ... .html?_r=0

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:22 pm

AnneBoleyn;1420866 wrote: What do you think of this Mickiel?

The Evolution of the God Gene

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weeki ... l?_r=0That article doesn't appear credible to me. Perhaps someone can show me where I'm mistaken.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:26 pm

Why/why not? Just asking.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:31 pm

I actually wrote a longer response but was thwarted by the dreaded "INTERNAL ERROR" warning, so I cut it down rather than try to figure out which two words being side-by-side was a problem.

In short, Wade Doesn't appear to understand the difference between Natural Selection and Group Selection. Also, he doesn't offer any citations other than mentioning the names of a couple of Evolutionary Scientists.

ETA: In fairness to Wade, the article was written in 2009 and he may have a better grasp of the Selection process now.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:30 pm

You might enjoy reading this Ahso!

The Fallacy of the God Gene

Jeff Schweitzer: The Fallacy of the God Gene

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:58 pm

Yeah, that's better. The NYT article was pretty much a disaster, as it appears the USA Today piece was as well. Generally speaking, people are confused enough about Evolution without the sort of nonsense in those articles adding to it. A lot of people endeavor to find a way to link religion to Evolution and get carried away doing so.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:38 am

Seems to me the religious in secular societies are getting more and more frenetic/desperate in their attempts tom hang on to their flocks coming up with daft pseudo science to try and persuade those whose reason is beginning to get in the way of belief.

Sadly we also have those who feel the need to construct an alternative belief system for atheists leaving it open to the claim it is just another belief system with it's own set of rules for membership of the community. They end up arguing about what you need to belief in order to meet the criteria.

From the article

Finally, it should be pointed out that when a person is asked about their beliefs and replies that they are agnostic, they are avoiding the question and answering a different one. Someone who can’t positively say he/she believes in a god is an atheist.

They even create their own version of a heretic.

Try this

Are You a Humanist? » British Humanist Association

The BHA | British Humanist Association | For the one life we have

Not a member I just have rather eclectic browsing habits.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:08 am

AnneBoleyn;1420866 wrote: What do you think of this Mickiel?

The Evolution of the God Gene

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weeki ... .html?_r=0

I think the article is interesting. I think religion was a reaction to there being a God, some early humans simply choose to worship that God in various ways, others choose to make their own Gods. Religion became mans effort to reach that one God, and science became the effort to explain that God through the search of the universe and examination of what existed in the natural world.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:36 am

If your not interested in God, why do you think about him everyday?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:01 am

Church membership is declining, interest in God is increasing!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:06 am

Mickiel;1421195 wrote: If your not interested in God, why do you think about him everyday?I don't think of God everyday. You might think of God everyday. Why do you presume everyone thinks like you think?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:07 am

Ahso!;1421317 wrote: I don't think of God everyday. You might think of God everyday. Why do you presume everyone thinks like you think?

I don't believe you. Prove to me that you don't think of God everyday.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:11 am

Mickiel;1421318 wrote: I don't believe you. Prove to me that you don't think of God everyday.I can't. I take you at your word that you think about God everyday, though I wonder if that was the case before your sobriety.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:17 am

Ahso!;1421321 wrote: I can't. I take you at your word that you think about God everyday, though I wonder if that was the case before your sobriety.

God was my favorite thought when I was drunk.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:28 am

Mickiel;1421328 wrote: God was my favorite thought when I was drunk.Is that why you got drunk - to think about God?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:40 am

Ahso!;1421337 wrote: Is that why you got drunk - to think about God?

The reason I got drunk was that I liked the way it felt.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:42 am

Mickiel;1421347 wrote: The reason I got drunk was that I liked the way it felt.It felt good because it made you think about God? Why would you not want to be drunk if being drunk makes you think about God even more?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:49 am

Ahso!;1421350 wrote: It felt good because it made you think about God? Why would you not want to be drunk if being drunk makes you think about God even more?

My being drunk had nothing to do with God, thinking is something I always do, sober or not. Thinking about God is something I always do, sober or not.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:52 am

Mickiel;1421328 wrote: God was my favorite thought when I was drunk.Mickiel;1421358 wrote: My being drunk had nothing to do with God, thinking is something I always do, sober or not. Thinking about God is something I always do, sober or not.Did you think of God when you weren't drunk? If so, why did you get drunk? You had God sober.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:54 am

Ahso!;1421363 wrote: Did you think of God when you weren't drunk? If so, why did you get drunk? You had God sober.

I always think about God, no matter what condition I am in. Just like you always look to twist things, no matter what we talk about.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:55 am

Mickiel;1421364 wrote: I always think about God, no matter what condition I am in. Just like you always look to twist things, no matter what we talk about.Well then, what's wrong with being drunk?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:03 am

Ahso!;1421366 wrote: Well then, what's wrong with being drunk?

What's right with it?

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:25 am

Mickiel, do you believe in hell, as an actual place? I'm asking because I was watching a discussion programme this morning and one person in particular was convinced that anyone who doesn't turn to Jesus will go to hell, for eternity, when they die. The Muslim and the Sikh who were interviewed had a much more compassionate and balanced view.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:35 am

theia;1421414 wrote: Mickiel, do you believe in hell, as an actual place? I'm asking because I was watching a discussion programme this morning and one person in particular was convinced that anyone who doesn't turn to Jesus will go to hell, for eternity, when they die. The Muslim and the Sikh who were interviewed had a much more compassionate and balanced view.

I do not believe in hell as an actual place, no. I believe many have confused the Lake of Fire with hell, thinking they are the same place. And I think Gods views are compassionate and balanced, nothing is compassionate and balanced about this eternal hell doctrine. Look, if I sin every day, all day, for 70 years, what is compassionate and balanced about torturing me for all of eternity? Thats insane and unbalanced punishment. God is not insane, some of his human followers beliefs are.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:46 am

Mickiel;1421371 wrote: What's right with it?According to you, if it makes you think about God more, that would be what's right about being drunk.

The less I drank the less I found I needed any God.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:49 am

I got to tell you, Mickey, I don't see a whole lot of difference between you and many Christians I've known.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:08 am

Ahso!;1421420 wrote: According to you, if it makes you think about God more, that would be what's right about being drunk.

The less I drank the less I found I needed any God.

Let me show you how deceptive you are; show me where I ever stated that drinking made me think about God more. I don't see a whole lot of difference in Christians and you.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:10 am

Mickiel;1421416 wrote: I do not believe in hell as an actual place, no. I believe many have confused the Lake of Fire with hell, thinking they are the same place. And I think Gods views are compassionate and balanced, nothing is compassionate and balanced about this eternal hell doctrine. Look, if I sin every day, all day, for 70 years, what is compassionate and balanced about torturing me for all of eternity? Thats insane and unbalanced punishment. God is not insane, some of his human followers beliefs are.

I totally agree with you, Mickiel

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:38 am

Mickiel;1421428 wrote: Let me show you how deceptive you are; show me where I ever stated that drinking made me think about God more. I don't see a whole lot of difference in Christians and you.
I believe I recall a long time ago when you and I were discussing this that you said God helped you become a better person all around by making you sober. That leads me to believe that when you were drinking you weren't as committed to God as you are now. Am I right about that?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:59 am

Ahso!;1421435 wrote: I believe I recall a long time ago when you and I were discussing this that you said God helped you become a better person all around by making you sober. That leads me to believe that when you were drinking you weren't as committed to God as you are now. Am I right about that?

You cannot place words in my mouth unless you first show them in archive; now show me where I said drinking made me think about God. But you see you can't; because your mentality with me is to lie, deceive, manipulate whenever you can, and I never let you get away with it. You don't know how to debate me honestly, because its not in you to do that. You are transparent and I see through you.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Mickiel;1421438 wrote: You cannot place words in my mouth unless you first show them in archive; now show me where I said drinking made me think about God. But you see you can't; because your mentality with me is to lie, deceive, manipulate whenever you can, and I never let you get away with it. You don't know how to debate me honestly, because its not in you to do that. You are transparent and I see through you.Here

Mickiel;1421328 wrote: God was my favorite thought when I was drunk.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:22 pm

Ahso!;1421444 wrote: Here

Show me where I said drinking made me think about God; you can't. Your scraping your empty barrel. Any time I debate you, I can show deception, manipulation and lies; because that is what eventually comes out of you.

And quess why?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:34 pm

It was a question I asked you, Mickey. I've already explained this but I'll try again. You said God was your favorite thought when you were drunk - right?

I in return asked you if that is why you enjoyed getting drunk.

I came to the point where I asked if it would then be accurate to say that when you were drinking you thought about God less when you were not drunk and therefore drank to think about God more.

I've just been following your lead. Go back and reread the relevant parts.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:59 pm

Ahso!;1421448 wrote: It was a question I asked you, Mickey. I've already explained this but I'll try again. You said God was your favorite thought when you were drunk - right?

I in return asked you if that is why you enjoyed getting drunk.

I came to the point where I asked if it would then be accurate to say that when you were drinking you thought about God less when you were not drunk and therefore drank to think about God more.

I've just been following your lead. Go back and reread the relevant parts.

Debating with you is just a useless excercise in futility.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:22 pm

Mickiel;1421464 wrote: Debating with you is just a useless excercise in futility.This is not a debate, Mickey. Neither one of us would fare very well in an actual debate, I'm afraid. What we've been doing is just talking (virtually).

I think the things I've asked of you today are fair. I think what you've found is what you assert has a lot of inconsistencies and you don't like that. You like to be right regardless. For example, you claim God is consciousness and yet claim that the conscious can deny God, but yet when the conscious does deny God, thus God denying God, you claim that I'm somehow tricking you.

Also, you claim that you're not religious and don't agree with Christians, yet when questioned and compared to Christian beliefs, your notions are consistent with one form of Christianity or another. Simply because you want to mix and match a little doesn't excuse the fact that you are indeed a Christian.

Also, you seem to claim that you posses some special version of the bible, yet when one inquires into yours it's identical to every other Christian bible out there.

You say spirits cannot be seen with the human eye and say anyone who claims otherwise is telling a falsehood, yet when confronted with actual scripture, you double talk your way out and become defensive.

There are more examples of how much you contradict yourself - in fact your threads are full of them - but those will do for now.

Care to further address any of what I've mentioned in this post?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:59 pm

Ahso!;1421466 wrote: This is not a debate, Mickey. Neither one of us would fare very well in an actual debate, I'm afraid. What we've been doing is just talking (virtually).

I think the things I've asked of you today are fair. I think what you've found is what you assert has a lot of inconsistencies and you don't like that. You like to be right regardless. For example, you claim God is consciousness and yet claim that the conscious can deny God, but yet when the conscious does deny God, thus God denying God, you claim that I'm somehow tricking you.

Also, you claim that you're not religious and don't agree with Christians, yet when questioned and compared to Christian beliefs, your notions are consistent with one form of Christianity or another. Simply because you want to mix and match a little doesn't excuse the fact that you are indeed a Christian.

Also, you seem to claim that you posses some special version of the bible, yet when one inquires into yours it's identical to every other Christian bible out there.

You say spirits cannot be seen with the human eye and say anyone who claims otherwise is telling a falsehood, yet when confronted with actual scripture, you double talk your way out and become defensive.

There are more examples of how much you contradict yourself - in fact your threads are full of them - but those will do for now.

Care to further address any of what I've mentioned in this post?

When humans deny God, that is not God denying God, because humans are not God. But I think we all came from God, as children have come from their parents.

I have never claimed to have a special version of the bible.

I am not Christian , I am independant of any religion, but I agree and disagree with certain things in certain religions. I don't believe Christianity holds a monopoly on God, neither do I accept the notion that just because a person can agree with certain things in a group, that makes them a part of the group. I agree with republicans and democrats on certain issues, but I am neither. And nobody can turn me into either of the two because THEY think I am one.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:43 am

If we are not interested in God, then why are we so interested in him? One may as well admit it; its hard not to be interested in God; the mystery is just the greatest one on earth I think. I think about God every day of my life, no joke, that is a very true statement. And I can't think of any thing else that I think about every day, except maybe eating food. We are interested in God, we are conscious of him;

and there is something interesting to that.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:47 am

Interest in God is unavoidable and just as real as he is; intrest in him should be counted as evidence of his influence, which should be counted as evidence of his reality.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:24 am

Intrest in God has always been high, but in the coming years it will increase dramatically, in relation to the increased suffering, the look toward God is destined to increase significantly. Humans can sense that we need God and need to be interested in him.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:40 pm

Hey Mickey, why don't you join us in the Rock Off thread and vote on some music. We'd love having you there. For now you can only vote on the songs already submitted but when we begin a new game you can add tunes to be voted on too. Come over and have some fun.

I know how hard things seem when we lose a person we love so much. Let us be a part of your recovery. We're your friends.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:08 am

Ahso!;1429426 wrote: Hey Mickey, why don't you join us in the Rock Off thread and vote on some music. We'd love having you there. For now you can only vote on the songs already submitted but when we begin a new game you can add tunes to be voted on too. Come over and have some fun.

I know how hard things seem when we lose a person we love so much. Let us be a part of your recovery. We're your friends.

Yea man my Moms death left a BIG hole in me; but I am coming along; I just miss her a lot, she was a good woman and a good consouler. Her belief in God gave me mine. She was a strong believer in God and she trusted in him all her life.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:00 am

There is no shame in interest in God, even for the Atheist. There is no shame for interest in Atheism for the Theist; we all are exposed to one another, and we may as well be interested in how we all think. That is why interest in God is so high, everybody wants to know how he thinks.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:38 am

Why hold yourselg back, take your interest in God to another level; study all that ia avalible; even try talking to him; what have you got to loose?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:45 am

Mickiel;1429560 wrote: Why hold yourselg back, take your interest in God to another level; study all that is avalible; even try talking to him; what have you got to loose?

Don't expect God to talk back to you, 99.9% of the time he will not.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:13 am

If your not interested in God, do you think you would be reading this?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:39 pm

I wonder how much God is really interested in us?

Now THAT I would love to know;

especially how much he is interested in me!

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:45 am

The interests of God must be fascinating; in Isaiah 43:25, " I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for my own sake ( or interest)."

Obviously, what ever interests God, forgiving sins is one of his interests. Isn't that something! God is " interested in wiping out our transgressions."

And we all are most fortunate that he is like that. So this way of God trumps all these doomsday religious messages that keep adding sin to sin on humanity. God is not interested in holding our sins against us; he's not!

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:43 am

If your not interested in God, then why does your interest stand out?