oscar;1163532 wrote: I've just had some news. He' been arrested and my sister has been down the police station all night with him. I'll know more in the morning.
Blessings for you and your family.
Good things may come from this.
Im a big believer in what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
I feel awful......
I feel awful......
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Nomad;1163567 wrote: Blessings for you and your family.
Good things may come from this.
Im a big believer in what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
Quick up-date.
He has been held for 17 hours and just released on bail on two counts. He's to appear before the magistrates April 16th. His solicitor has done a lousey job and i'm furious with him. For one, they went over the time they are allowed to hold him without charge. For two, they should have insisted he was interviewed by video due to his age. Sis says the police were puting words in his mouth. That's normal here though. It's late here so I'll speak to him in the morning. He won't get away with this lot. He will go down, I am sure. He's just a kid that's messed up ffs :-5:-5
Good things may come from this.
Im a big believer in what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
Quick up-date.
He has been held for 17 hours and just released on bail on two counts. He's to appear before the magistrates April 16th. His solicitor has done a lousey job and i'm furious with him. For one, they went over the time they are allowed to hold him without charge. For two, they should have insisted he was interviewed by video due to his age. Sis says the police were puting words in his mouth. That's normal here though. It's late here so I'll speak to him in the morning. He won't get away with this lot. He will go down, I am sure. He's just a kid that's messed up ffs :-5:-5
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
Robbery is more than a kid that just messed up.
Its a serious offense.
He did it.
Now instill in him the importance of becoming a man so he can become a father.
That trumps everything.
Its a serious offense.
He did it.
Now instill in him the importance of becoming a man so he can become a father.
That trumps everything.
I AM AWESOME MAN
I feel awful......
Nomad;1164120 wrote: Robbery is more than a kid that just messed up.
Its a serious offense.
He did it.
Now instill in him the importance of becoming a man so he can become a father.
That trumps everything.
well said Nomad!
Its a serious offense.
He did it.
Now instill in him the importance of becoming a man so he can become a father.
That trumps everything.
well said Nomad!
Life is just to short for drama.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Nomad;1164120 wrote: Robbery is more than a kid that just messed up.
Its a serious offense.
He did it.
Now instill in him the importance of becoming a man so he can become a father.
That trumps everything. I will be with him in court in the public gallery. His baby will be due sortly after his court appearence so they may take that into consideration. I will certainly be telling him how serious it is and what the out-come is likely to be. Thanks again Nomie :-6
Its a serious offense.
He did it.
Now instill in him the importance of becoming a man so he can become a father.
That trumps everything. I will be with him in court in the public gallery. His baby will be due sortly after his court appearence so they may take that into consideration. I will certainly be telling him how serious it is and what the out-come is likely to be. Thanks again Nomie :-6
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
oscar;1164228 wrote: I will be with him in court in the public gallery. His baby will be due sortly after his court appearence so they may take that into consideration. I will certainly be telling him how serious it is and what the out-come is likely to be. Thanks again Nomie :-6
he is the one that his girlfriend is pregnant?
he is the one that his girlfriend is pregnant?
Life is just to short for drama.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
I feel awful......
oscar;1164115 wrote: Quick up-date.
He has been held for 17 hours and just released on bail on two counts. He's to appear before the magistrates April 16th. His solicitor has done a lousey job and i'm furious with him. For one, they went over the time they are allowed to hold him without charge. For two, they should have insisted he was interviewed by video due to his age. Sis says the police were puting words in his mouth. That's normal here though. It's late here so I'll speak to him in the morning. He won't get away with this lot. He will go down, I am sure. He's just a kid that's messed up ffs -5-5
He's unlikely to be sent to a Young Offenders Institution. There could be lots of reasons why the soliciter did whatever he did -it's very difficult to say what went on on the basis of second- or third hand information, so the information could be inaccurate in some way. Bear in mind that he actually did do the deed (if it's the theft you've already alluded to). He may be "just a kid that's messed up ffs", but he's done it *repeatedly*, and in very in worrying ways. Your job is not to say "Oh that naughty policeman/soliciter aw diddums we'll make sure you're saved", but to help impress on him that what he's been doing is absolutely wrong, and that you in no way condone it, and help him to not to further transgress.
He has been held for 17 hours and just released on bail on two counts. He's to appear before the magistrates April 16th. His solicitor has done a lousey job and i'm furious with him. For one, they went over the time they are allowed to hold him without charge. For two, they should have insisted he was interviewed by video due to his age. Sis says the police were puting words in his mouth. That's normal here though. It's late here so I'll speak to him in the morning. He won't get away with this lot. He will go down, I am sure. He's just a kid that's messed up ffs -5-5
He's unlikely to be sent to a Young Offenders Institution. There could be lots of reasons why the soliciter did whatever he did -it's very difficult to say what went on on the basis of second- or third hand information, so the information could be inaccurate in some way. Bear in mind that he actually did do the deed (if it's the theft you've already alluded to). He may be "just a kid that's messed up ffs", but he's done it *repeatedly*, and in very in worrying ways. Your job is not to say "Oh that naughty policeman/soliciter aw diddums we'll make sure you're saved", but to help impress on him that what he's been doing is absolutely wrong, and that you in no way condone it, and help him to not to further transgress.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Bill Sikes;1164325 wrote: He's unlikely to be sent to a Young Offenders Institution. There could be lots of reasons why the soliciter did whatever he did -it's very difficult to say what went on on the basis of second- or third hand information, so the information could be inaccurate in some way. Bear in mind that he actually did do the deed (if it's the theft you've already alluded to). He may be "just a kid that's messed up ffs", but he's done it *repeatedly*, and in very in worrying ways. Your job is not to say "Oh that naughty policeman/soliciter aw diddums we'll make sure you're saved", but to help impress on him that what he's been doing is absolutely wrong, and that you in no way condone it, and help him to not to further transgress. Most people on this forum know how involved i am with police and lawyers for my own reasons but i can assure you I have a better insight than most.
I have spoken to him today and the police have added a further two charges.
It is not a case of 'diddums'. I am refering to the law. Legally he could not be held for 16 hours without being charged. Legally as he is in the eyes of the law 'a child' as he is under 17 yrs old, they should have video'd his interviews under caution. Those aspects are the law and even though he is guilty as hell, I will be pushing for all charges to be thrown out of court based on the fact that police broke two counts of police proceedure. If i can do that with his solicitor, it will only be down to sloppy police work and totally their own fault.
I have to dash Bill. I will come back with the rest later.
I have spoken to him today and the police have added a further two charges.
It is not a case of 'diddums'. I am refering to the law. Legally he could not be held for 16 hours without being charged. Legally as he is in the eyes of the law 'a child' as he is under 17 yrs old, they should have video'd his interviews under caution. Those aspects are the law and even though he is guilty as hell, I will be pushing for all charges to be thrown out of court based on the fact that police broke two counts of police proceedure. If i can do that with his solicitor, it will only be down to sloppy police work and totally their own fault.
I have to dash Bill. I will come back with the rest later.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
I feel awful......
oscar;1164372 wrote: Most people on this forum know how involved i am with police and lawyers for my own reasons but i can assure you I have a better insight than most.
I have spoken to him today and the police have added a further two charges.
It is not a case of 'diddums'. I am refering to the law. Legally he could not be held for 16 hours without being charged. Legally as he is in the eyes of the law 'a child' as he is under 17 yrs old, they should have video'd his interviews under caution. Those aspects are the law and even though he is guilty as hell, I will be pushing for all charges to be thrown out of court based on the fact that police broke two counts of police proceedure. If i can do that with his solicitor, it will only be down to sloppy police work and totally their own fault.
I have to dash Bill. I will come back with the rest later.
So. He's guilty. Everyone knows he's guilty. You will "push for all charges to be thrown out"[1], because of a technicality, not because he isn't guilty, which he is. That is quite disgraceful, and will send him a very strong message that he's untouchable. I can't think of a more counter-productive stance.
[1] If evidence is inadmissible, the court can decide that for itself.
I have spoken to him today and the police have added a further two charges.
It is not a case of 'diddums'. I am refering to the law. Legally he could not be held for 16 hours without being charged. Legally as he is in the eyes of the law 'a child' as he is under 17 yrs old, they should have video'd his interviews under caution. Those aspects are the law and even though he is guilty as hell, I will be pushing for all charges to be thrown out of court based on the fact that police broke two counts of police proceedure. If i can do that with his solicitor, it will only be down to sloppy police work and totally their own fault.
I have to dash Bill. I will come back with the rest later.
So. He's guilty. Everyone knows he's guilty. You will "push for all charges to be thrown out"[1], because of a technicality, not because he isn't guilty, which he is. That is quite disgraceful, and will send him a very strong message that he's untouchable. I can't think of a more counter-productive stance.
[1] If evidence is inadmissible, the court can decide that for itself.
I feel awful......
oscar;1164372 wrote: Most people on this forum know how involved i am with police and lawyers for my own reasons but i can assure you I have a better insight than most.
I have spoken to him today and the police have added a further two charges.
It is not a case of 'diddums'. I am refering to the law. Legally he could not be held for 16 hours without being charged. Legally as he is in the eyes of the law 'a child' as he is under 17 yrs old, they should have video'd his interviews under caution. Those aspects are the law and even though he is guilty as hell, I will be pushing for all charges to be thrown out of court based on the fact that police broke two counts of police proceedure. If i can do that with his solicitor, it will only be down to sloppy police work and totally their own fault.
I have to dash Bill. I will come back with the rest later.
You and everyone else know he is guilty of crimes.
I am shocked he was only held for that length of time.
For you to intervene and possibly have all charges dropped.........just sends another message..........he who is guilty, goes free.
Your not helping him in the least.....he is guilty, let him pay for his crimes, pregnant girlfriend or not.
I have spoken to him today and the police have added a further two charges.
It is not a case of 'diddums'. I am refering to the law. Legally he could not be held for 16 hours without being charged. Legally as he is in the eyes of the law 'a child' as he is under 17 yrs old, they should have video'd his interviews under caution. Those aspects are the law and even though he is guilty as hell, I will be pushing for all charges to be thrown out of court based on the fact that police broke two counts of police proceedure. If i can do that with his solicitor, it will only be down to sloppy police work and totally their own fault.
I have to dash Bill. I will come back with the rest later.
You and everyone else know he is guilty of crimes.
I am shocked he was only held for that length of time.
For you to intervene and possibly have all charges dropped.........just sends another message..........he who is guilty, goes free.
Your not helping him in the least.....he is guilty, let him pay for his crimes, pregnant girlfriend or not.
Life is just to short for drama.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Bill Sikes;1164388 wrote: So. He's guilty. Everyone knows he's guilty. You will "push for all charges to be thrown out"[1], because of a technicality, not because he isn't guilty, which he is. That is quite disgraceful, and will send him a very strong message that he's untouchable. I can't think of a more counter-productive stance.
[1] If evidence is inadmissible, the court can decide that for itself. I don't blame you at all for your opinion that what i will do is disgracefull. I actually agree with you 100% that he is guilty, it's his own fault and he needs to be taught a lesson. When he was up infront of the magistrates last year after being caught driving a car in the small hours, with his previous 9 arrests, we were certain that he would be jailed. I was astonished that he was given just 40 hours community service. a £55 fine and my sis was praised for being a good mother by the court. It was his 10th arrest between the age of 14 and 15 yrs old. He had 4 appearences before the magistrates and 6 official police cautions, some for possession of a weapon. Now, you tell me what hope in hell we have of getting him to understand the seriouness of it when we have a police and judicial system that lets scroats like him off time and time again. Even though he's one of mine, these kids are laughing at our police and courts. Can we really blame them? Him and other kids should never be allowed licence to commit 10 offences and walk out of a court with a slap on the wrist. It is the system here that i hold 50% responsible for 'allowing' these kids to constantly push the boundaries until their crimes just get worse and worse.
After his court appearence, if he is not jailed which i am certain he will be, there is absolutely no arguement, he is coming into my guardianship. I will take the responsibility for him. I should have done it after his 3rd arrest to be honest.
If we rely on and pay our taxes for our police force, then I expect them to do the job they are paid for. Sloppy police proceedure and breach of police proceedure is just unacceptable especially when dealing with a minor. I'm about to speak to his arresting officers for details of when he was booked in and out etc. How ever guilty he is, how ever much of a scroat he is, the police have a duty to follow proceedure. We can not expect our sloppy, complacent and apathetic police force to improve if they are not held accountable for their mistakes. If he has to answer to his crimes, equally I will make sure that the police answer to breach of police proceedure.
Thank you for being interested Bill. I do appreciate your posts and input.
[1] If evidence is inadmissible, the court can decide that for itself. I don't blame you at all for your opinion that what i will do is disgracefull. I actually agree with you 100% that he is guilty, it's his own fault and he needs to be taught a lesson. When he was up infront of the magistrates last year after being caught driving a car in the small hours, with his previous 9 arrests, we were certain that he would be jailed. I was astonished that he was given just 40 hours community service. a £55 fine and my sis was praised for being a good mother by the court. It was his 10th arrest between the age of 14 and 15 yrs old. He had 4 appearences before the magistrates and 6 official police cautions, some for possession of a weapon. Now, you tell me what hope in hell we have of getting him to understand the seriouness of it when we have a police and judicial system that lets scroats like him off time and time again. Even though he's one of mine, these kids are laughing at our police and courts. Can we really blame them? Him and other kids should never be allowed licence to commit 10 offences and walk out of a court with a slap on the wrist. It is the system here that i hold 50% responsible for 'allowing' these kids to constantly push the boundaries until their crimes just get worse and worse.
After his court appearence, if he is not jailed which i am certain he will be, there is absolutely no arguement, he is coming into my guardianship. I will take the responsibility for him. I should have done it after his 3rd arrest to be honest.
If we rely on and pay our taxes for our police force, then I expect them to do the job they are paid for. Sloppy police proceedure and breach of police proceedure is just unacceptable especially when dealing with a minor. I'm about to speak to his arresting officers for details of when he was booked in and out etc. How ever guilty he is, how ever much of a scroat he is, the police have a duty to follow proceedure. We can not expect our sloppy, complacent and apathetic police force to improve if they are not held accountable for their mistakes. If he has to answer to his crimes, equally I will make sure that the police answer to breach of police proceedure.
Thank you for being interested Bill. I do appreciate your posts and input.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
But Oscar, your approach towards the Police is always going to be biased towards believing that they are corrupt, lying, wrong, breaking the law etc. I know it's because of your own situation but how is that going to help him.
Bill's right, he's done wrong, you should not be looking for ways to get the charges dropped you should be backing the justice system and hoping that a spell inside might just be the wake up call he needs.
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree that finding a way to get him off is going to be the best way to help him - what message does that send to him, it's telling him that no matter what he does you'll try your damnedest to let him get away with it.
What happens if he progresses to domestic burglary or his joy-riding involves an accident that injures someone? Is that something that you'll be helping get the charges dropped for? He deplores drug use and war memorial vandalism - so what, every criminal has his own set of 'standards', things he won't do, doesn't make them any the less a criminal, doesn't mean they shouldn't get locked up when they do wrong.
Bill's right, he's done wrong, you should not be looking for ways to get the charges dropped you should be backing the justice system and hoping that a spell inside might just be the wake up call he needs.
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree that finding a way to get him off is going to be the best way to help him - what message does that send to him, it's telling him that no matter what he does you'll try your damnedest to let him get away with it.
What happens if he progresses to domestic burglary or his joy-riding involves an accident that injures someone? Is that something that you'll be helping get the charges dropped for? He deplores drug use and war memorial vandalism - so what, every criminal has his own set of 'standards', things he won't do, doesn't make them any the less a criminal, doesn't mean they shouldn't get locked up when they do wrong.
Originally Posted by spot
She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
I feel awful......
Imladris;1164461 wrote: But Oscar, your approach towards the Police is always going to be biased towards believing that they are corrupt, lying, wrong, breaking the law etc. I know it's because of your own situation but how is that going to help him.
Bill's right, he's done wrong, you should not be looking for ways to get the charges dropped you should be backing the justice system and hoping that a spell inside might just be the wake up call he needs.
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree that finding a way to get him off is going to be the best way to help him - what message does that send to him, it's telling him that no matter what he does you'll try your damnedest to let him get away with it.
What happens if he progresses to domestic burglary or his joy-riding involves an accident that injures someone? Is that something that you'll be helping get the charges dropped for? He deplores drug use and war memorial vandalism - so what, every criminal has his own set of 'standards', things he won't do, doesn't make them any the less a criminal, doesn't mean they shouldn't get locked up when they do wrong.
I agree and said the generally the same.
but what you said is much more true, domestic burglary, accidents, one day someone will get hurt etc.
Just because he is family...doesn't make it right for you to interfere to get his charges dropped........let him pay for what he has done now......this kid is going to be a father soon........horrible way to bring a child into the world, his dad being a criminal......but life is tough.......and he should pay for his crimes.....just like everyone else.
Bill's right, he's done wrong, you should not be looking for ways to get the charges dropped you should be backing the justice system and hoping that a spell inside might just be the wake up call he needs.
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree that finding a way to get him off is going to be the best way to help him - what message does that send to him, it's telling him that no matter what he does you'll try your damnedest to let him get away with it.
What happens if he progresses to domestic burglary or his joy-riding involves an accident that injures someone? Is that something that you'll be helping get the charges dropped for? He deplores drug use and war memorial vandalism - so what, every criminal has his own set of 'standards', things he won't do, doesn't make them any the less a criminal, doesn't mean they shouldn't get locked up when they do wrong.
I agree and said the generally the same.
but what you said is much more true, domestic burglary, accidents, one day someone will get hurt etc.
Just because he is family...doesn't make it right for you to interfere to get his charges dropped........let him pay for what he has done now......this kid is going to be a father soon........horrible way to bring a child into the world, his dad being a criminal......but life is tough.......and he should pay for his crimes.....just like everyone else.
Life is just to short for drama.
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Imladris;1164461 wrote: But Oscar, your approach towards the Police is always going to be biased towards believing that they are corrupt, lying, wrong, breaking the law etc. I know it's because of your own situation but how is that going to help him.
Bill's right, he's done wrong, you should not be looking for ways to get the charges dropped you should be backing the justice system and hoping that a spell inside might just be the wake up call he needs.
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree that finding a way to get him off is going to be the best way to help him - what message does that send to him, it's telling him that no matter what he does you'll try your damnedest to let him get away with it.
What happens if he progresses to domestic burglary or his joy-riding involves an accident that injures someone? Is that something that you'll be helping get the charges dropped for? He deplores drug use and war memorial vandalism - so what, every criminal has his own set of 'standards', things he won't do, doesn't make them any the less a criminal, doesn't mean they shouldn't get locked up when they do wrong. The sole reason for 'forcing' him to sit through a four day trial with top lawyers etc was to show him how serious it gets. He wanted to be there but it was a small public gallery and to us, it was vital that he was in there for the whole four days. Now, you know the corruption in that trial. You know that the arresting officer gave 'false imformation' (To quote the Daily Mirror three weeks ago) under oath. You also know why that officer was found guilty of misconduct during that trial. He witnessed everything. If we knew for a moment that we would see police behaving in such a manner, we would never have allowed him to be there. He did see it unfortunately and any respect he did once have for the police went flying out the window during that trial.
I am not going to try my damndest to get him off. I will make sure that the two breaches of police proceedure while he was in custody are addressed. I may do that through the IPCC and let them deal with the officers and keep it out of the courts. If we want a fair police and judicial system in this country and not have gung ho maverick cops, breaches of police proceedure have to be raised. Otherwise, laws and guidelines are systematically eroded until we end up with a rogue police force. What then? Another Charles De Menzes? Breaches of police proceedure are common place due to folk like my sister who has no basic understanding of police proceedure. It's why some and I stress 'some' police forces run rough shot over residents and citizens because in the main, they deal daily with people who do not know the system. The officer in 'That' trial made the mistake of believing that the 'subject' was was one of those people. There is no doubt that even if i did nothing, his lawyer will be arguing in court that he was 'tired' during interview under caution due to the lengh of time he was in custody. As you know, that could have a huge bearing of how the Magistrates will view the police when they handled a 'minor'.
This has happened in another county and is down to another counties police force. My view of the police is not entirely one sided. My view of police is largely what i think of the police force here. That does not mean the police force from his area have to be tarred with the same brush.
I appreciate your views Helen. I have to go and get some more lovely income tax for his worship GB soon but i will be interested if you add more. I ask this of you Helen. We all know he is guilty. We know that due to the laughable system here, he has been let off time and time again by the courts. We know that he now has to take responsibility and face what ever punishment the court hands out. However, just because he is guilty, does that give the police the right to ignore the law and police proceedure when dealing with a minor or any detainee?
I have to say that this has upset me so much i have been crying over him today. I love him like my own son and naturally I am defensive of him even though he is a little fecker. I'm going to kill him anyway for upsetting me so much.
Bill's right, he's done wrong, you should not be looking for ways to get the charges dropped you should be backing the justice system and hoping that a spell inside might just be the wake up call he needs.
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree that finding a way to get him off is going to be the best way to help him - what message does that send to him, it's telling him that no matter what he does you'll try your damnedest to let him get away with it.
What happens if he progresses to domestic burglary or his joy-riding involves an accident that injures someone? Is that something that you'll be helping get the charges dropped for? He deplores drug use and war memorial vandalism - so what, every criminal has his own set of 'standards', things he won't do, doesn't make them any the less a criminal, doesn't mean they shouldn't get locked up when they do wrong. The sole reason for 'forcing' him to sit through a four day trial with top lawyers etc was to show him how serious it gets. He wanted to be there but it was a small public gallery and to us, it was vital that he was in there for the whole four days. Now, you know the corruption in that trial. You know that the arresting officer gave 'false imformation' (To quote the Daily Mirror three weeks ago) under oath. You also know why that officer was found guilty of misconduct during that trial. He witnessed everything. If we knew for a moment that we would see police behaving in such a manner, we would never have allowed him to be there. He did see it unfortunately and any respect he did once have for the police went flying out the window during that trial.
I am not going to try my damndest to get him off. I will make sure that the two breaches of police proceedure while he was in custody are addressed. I may do that through the IPCC and let them deal with the officers and keep it out of the courts. If we want a fair police and judicial system in this country and not have gung ho maverick cops, breaches of police proceedure have to be raised. Otherwise, laws and guidelines are systematically eroded until we end up with a rogue police force. What then? Another Charles De Menzes? Breaches of police proceedure are common place due to folk like my sister who has no basic understanding of police proceedure. It's why some and I stress 'some' police forces run rough shot over residents and citizens because in the main, they deal daily with people who do not know the system. The officer in 'That' trial made the mistake of believing that the 'subject' was was one of those people. There is no doubt that even if i did nothing, his lawyer will be arguing in court that he was 'tired' during interview under caution due to the lengh of time he was in custody. As you know, that could have a huge bearing of how the Magistrates will view the police when they handled a 'minor'.
This has happened in another county and is down to another counties police force. My view of the police is not entirely one sided. My view of police is largely what i think of the police force here. That does not mean the police force from his area have to be tarred with the same brush.
I appreciate your views Helen.
I have to go and get some more lovely income tax for his worship GB soon but i will be interested if you add more. I ask this of you Helen. We all know he is guilty. We know that due to the laughable system here, he has been let off time and time again by the courts. We know that he now has to take responsibility and face what ever punishment the court hands out. However, just because he is guilty, does that give the police the right to ignore the law and police proceedure when dealing with a minor or any detainee?I have to say that this has upset me so much i have been crying over him today. I love him like my own son and naturally I am defensive of him even though he is a little fecker. I'm going to kill him anyway for upsetting me so much.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
I would turn him in. If you dont you are enabling him and that doesnt help. In addition, what if it what was your belongings that were taken? Wouldnt you want them back?
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
TheNewDG;1164550 wrote: I would turn him in. If you dont you are enabling him and that doesnt help. In addition, what if it what was your belongings that were taken? Wouldnt you want them back? He was already turned in yesterday by his father. He has been charged with four counts and is bailed until April 16th.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
oscar;1164417 wrote: I don't blame you at all for your opinion that what i will do is disgracefull. I actually agree with you 100% that he is guilty, it's his own fault and he needs to be taught a lesson. When he was up infront of the magistrates last year after being caught driving a car in the small hours, with his previous 9 arrests, we were certain that he would be jailed. I was astonished that he was given just 40 hours community service. a £55 fine and my sis was praised for being a good mother by the court. It was his 10th arrest between the age of 14 and 15 yrs old. He had 4 appearences before the magistrates and 6 official police cautions, some for possession of a weapon. Now, you tell me what hope in hell we have of getting him to understand the seriouness of it when we have a police and judicial system that lets scroats like him off time and time again. Even though he's one of mine, these kids are laughing at our police and courts. Can we really blame them? Him and other kids should never be allowed licence to commit 10 offences and walk out of a court with a slap on the wrist. It is the system here that i hold 50% responsible for 'allowing' these kids to constantly push the boundaries until their crimes just get worse and worse.
After his court appearence, if he is not jailed which i am certain he will be, there is absolutely no arguement, he is coming into my guardianship. I will take the responsibility for him. I should have done it after his 3rd arrest to be honest.
If we rely on and pay our taxes for our police force, then I expect them to do the job they are paid for. Sloppy police proceedure and breach of police proceedure is just unacceptable especially when dealing with a minor. I'm about to speak to his arresting officers for details of when he was booked in and out etc. How ever guilty he is, how ever much of a scroat he is, the police have a duty to follow proceedure. We can not expect our sloppy, complacent and apathetic police force to improve if they are not held accountable for their mistakes. If he has to answer to his crimes, equally I will make sure that the police answer to breach of police proceedure.
Thank you for being interested Bill. I do appreciate your posts and input.
This reads like you expect the judicial system to do his parents jobs for them. He placed stolen items in his parents home, dad wasnt told while mom went out of town.
10 arrests in a year ???
Put on the brakes !!!!!
There may be an overload in the system that prevents 100% justice but the courts need some help from the families.
This family needs an outside source to intervene. Its your/their responsibility to seek that source out.
Theres been an enormous breakdown within the family. Thats where you start. Your family needs some professional help.
Save your family. Whats more important than that ?
After his court appearence, if he is not jailed which i am certain he will be, there is absolutely no arguement, he is coming into my guardianship. I will take the responsibility for him. I should have done it after his 3rd arrest to be honest.
If we rely on and pay our taxes for our police force, then I expect them to do the job they are paid for. Sloppy police proceedure and breach of police proceedure is just unacceptable especially when dealing with a minor. I'm about to speak to his arresting officers for details of when he was booked in and out etc. How ever guilty he is, how ever much of a scroat he is, the police have a duty to follow proceedure. We can not expect our sloppy, complacent and apathetic police force to improve if they are not held accountable for their mistakes. If he has to answer to his crimes, equally I will make sure that the police answer to breach of police proceedure.
Thank you for being interested Bill. I do appreciate your posts and input.
This reads like you expect the judicial system to do his parents jobs for them. He placed stolen items in his parents home, dad wasnt told while mom went out of town.
10 arrests in a year ???
Put on the brakes !!!!!
There may be an overload in the system that prevents 100% justice but the courts need some help from the families.
This family needs an outside source to intervene. Its your/their responsibility to seek that source out.
Theres been an enormous breakdown within the family. Thats where you start. Your family needs some professional help.
Save your family. Whats more important than that ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Nomad;1164667 wrote: This reads like you expect the judicial system to do his parents jobs for them. He placed stolen items in his parents home, dad wasnt told while mom went out of town.
10 arrests in a year ???
Put on the brakes !!!!!
There may be an overload in the system that prevents 100% justice but the courts need some help from the families.
This family needs an outside source to intervene. Its your/their responsibility to seek that source out.
Theres been an enormous breakdown within the family. Thats where you start. Your family needs some professional help.
Save your family. Whats more important than that ? It is very easy to think that he had been neglected but if he had, he'd have been here with us a long time ago. The'Out of town' trip by his mum was the regular check up on her baby at Great Ormond Street Hopital In London. The baby has a heart defect. She would never leave her children for any other reason than this. Nor can she cancel a vital check up with the baby's consultant.
I will not bore you with every detail but his parents have brought in proffessionals, even doctors. They can find nothing mentally wrong with him. Everyone has bent side-ways to find ways to get him out of this. I myself contributed to a loan from the government to get him an apprentiship. I believe there also comes a time when he has to help himself.
This country has and continue's to fail kids who fall into this trap. For one we have a serious prison over-crowding problem. Magistrates are influenced in sentencing due to this. For two, we have serious under-funding of youth activity because local councils are broke. For three, we have crime catagorised and most minor crime including criminal damage is a classified grade C crime. This means that police officers do not attend these crimes until all grade one and two shouts have been covered. This is mainly due to government under-funding and under-manning our police force. I could go on, however, our governments failings are not his or any other kid born into the system's fault. His previous is shocking for his age but it is not his fault that soft magistrates and a pathetic penal system allow him to walk away every time with a slap on the wrist and him sticking two fingers up to the establishment. He should have been given a custodial sentence afte the 3 rd arrest and not be given licence to carry on with the nature of his crimes geting more and more serious. I am more than aware that when he was driving a car at his age, he could have wiped out some-one's family. I am very aware that one day tht weapon he carries might actually be used and some-one elses family destroyed. On most occassions when such crimes are reported, we find that they have a history of pevious offences. Alot are even on bail for a previous violent offence .If i had all the answers, I'd be the highest paid politician in this country. I don't have the answers.
If he leaves the gang where he lives, he will probably become a victem. If we move him away from his area, we are in no doubt he will find another gang. He has to go out, we can not imprison him. At least he now knows that his dad has had enough.
All we can do now I suppose is wait to see what the courts decide.
10 arrests in a year ???
Put on the brakes !!!!!
There may be an overload in the system that prevents 100% justice but the courts need some help from the families.
This family needs an outside source to intervene. Its your/their responsibility to seek that source out.
Theres been an enormous breakdown within the family. Thats where you start. Your family needs some professional help.
Save your family. Whats more important than that ? It is very easy to think that he had been neglected but if he had, he'd have been here with us a long time ago. The'Out of town' trip by his mum was the regular check up on her baby at Great Ormond Street Hopital In London. The baby has a heart defect. She would never leave her children for any other reason than this. Nor can she cancel a vital check up with the baby's consultant.
I will not bore you with every detail but his parents have brought in proffessionals, even doctors. They can find nothing mentally wrong with him. Everyone has bent side-ways to find ways to get him out of this. I myself contributed to a loan from the government to get him an apprentiship. I believe there also comes a time when he has to help himself.
This country has and continue's to fail kids who fall into this trap. For one we have a serious prison over-crowding problem. Magistrates are influenced in sentencing due to this. For two, we have serious under-funding of youth activity because local councils are broke. For three, we have crime catagorised and most minor crime including criminal damage is a classified grade C crime. This means that police officers do not attend these crimes until all grade one and two shouts have been covered. This is mainly due to government under-funding and under-manning our police force. I could go on, however, our governments failings are not his or any other kid born into the system's fault. His previous is shocking for his age but it is not his fault that soft magistrates and a pathetic penal system allow him to walk away every time with a slap on the wrist and him sticking two fingers up to the establishment. He should have been given a custodial sentence afte the 3 rd arrest and not be given licence to carry on with the nature of his crimes geting more and more serious. I am more than aware that when he was driving a car at his age, he could have wiped out some-one's family. I am very aware that one day tht weapon he carries might actually be used and some-one elses family destroyed. On most occassions when such crimes are reported, we find that they have a history of pevious offences. Alot are even on bail for a previous violent offence .If i had all the answers, I'd be the highest paid politician in this country. I don't have the answers.
If he leaves the gang where he lives, he will probably become a victem. If we move him away from his area, we are in no doubt he will find another gang. He has to go out, we can not imprison him. At least he now knows that his dad has had enough.
All we can do now I suppose is wait to see what the courts decide.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
Ok. Maybe this will be the wake up call he needs. I hope so so he can live a full and happy life. I went the hard road but I turned out ok. I wish the same for him. Your good and kind to care so deeply.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Nomad;1164700 wrote: Ok. Maybe this will be the wake up call he needs. I hope so so he can live a full and happy life. I went the hard road but I turned out ok. I wish the same for him. Your good and kind to care so deeply. Thankyou for taking the interest. :-6 I was the recipient of 'Tough Love' from my parents as a teenager although my crimes were smoking in school or wearing too much make up. On the subject of the pathetic system in this country and as an example of our human rights laws.... He was grounded but he just walked out the door. If his father had physically restrained him from doing so, his father would have and could have been arrested for assaulting him. When his dad locked him in his room, he kicked the window out and was gone. If his dad had restraned him, he could have been charged with 'false imprisonment'. That is the law here for parents and children and most kids know the law and know their parents haven't got a leg to stand on. We can't have kids being hit or beaten by parents but this pc crap here has gone too far.
Thanks again Nomad.
Thanks again Nomad.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I feel awful......
This is really upsetting for you and I'm sorry that he's making you feel so bad.
It's hard for us to be impartial the same as it is for you, our experiences with the law/police are going to influence our opinions the same as yours.
I really do feel for you and I also admire the fact that you are so determind to help him and take him in - others would wash their hands, not so sure I could do it.
I hope that he sees how much harm he causes to himself and more importantly to those who love him, I suspect that won't happen until he is a lot older though, teenagers are sometimes rather blinkered and selfish.
Do you think he'd benefit from reading this thread? Or would he be upset that we know so much?
H.
It's hard for us to be impartial the same as it is for you, our experiences with the law/police are going to influence our opinions the same as yours.
I really do feel for you and I also admire the fact that you are so determind to help him and take him in - others would wash their hands, not so sure I could do it.
I hope that he sees how much harm he causes to himself and more importantly to those who love him, I suspect that won't happen until he is a lot older though, teenagers are sometimes rather blinkered and selfish.
Do you think he'd benefit from reading this thread? Or would he be upset that we know so much?
H.
Originally Posted by spot
She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Imladris;1164950 wrote: This is really upsetting for you and I'm sorry that he's making you feel so bad.
It's hard for us to be impartial the same as it is for you, our experiences with the law/police are going to influence our opinions the same as yours.
I really do feel for you and I also admire the fact that you are so determind to help him and take him in - others would wash their hands, not so sure I could do it.
I hope that he sees how much harm he causes to himself and more importantly to those who love him, I suspect that won't happen until he is a lot older though, teenagers are sometimes rather blinkered and selfish.
Do you think he'd benefit from reading this thread? Or would he be upset that we know so much?
H.
Thanks Helen.
I did think about getting him on here. An attempt to shame him by his mother back-fired last night. She wrote on his facebook wall what he'd done and said, 'thanks for another 17 hours of grief down the police station again Son'. Instead of shaming him, all his pals have left comments telling him, Well done!!!!!!!
The difference between 'that trial' and him, is that we all accept what ours is like and know that when the police come knocking, he's likely to be guilty as hell. In 'that trial' what was so pathetic was the insistence that their little Johnny was innocent and all his mates fault even after his pals ratted on him in court.
Mr O and I have had a long chat about him this morning and have decided to ask my sister to address the magistrates. If she agree's to what we have in mind and doesn't want to do it herself, I will do it.
We want the opportunity to tell the magistrates that we are in no doubt that this society is partly to blame where soft sentencing has allowed kids like him to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Due to soft sentencing he has been given licence to carry on making his crimes more serious as he goes on until one day, some-one will be seriously hurt. We will ask the magistrates that the family wish that they pass nothing less than a custodial sentence with an order that he is not to be returned to the sink estate where he lives on release.
We think that my sister will agree as she can't take any more.
I know he'll hate us at the time but what other option is there?
If I didn't love the little shyte as much as i did, I wouldn't be so upset over him. We found out today that he was in custody for so long because he would not grass his mates. Still hasn't and knowing him, they will never get it out of him.
He's on the left.
Attached files
It's hard for us to be impartial the same as it is for you, our experiences with the law/police are going to influence our opinions the same as yours.
I really do feel for you and I also admire the fact that you are so determind to help him and take him in - others would wash their hands, not so sure I could do it.
I hope that he sees how much harm he causes to himself and more importantly to those who love him, I suspect that won't happen until he is a lot older though, teenagers are sometimes rather blinkered and selfish.
Do you think he'd benefit from reading this thread? Or would he be upset that we know so much?
H.
Thanks Helen.
I did think about getting him on here. An attempt to shame him by his mother back-fired last night. She wrote on his facebook wall what he'd done and said, 'thanks for another 17 hours of grief down the police station again Son'. Instead of shaming him, all his pals have left comments telling him, Well done!!!!!!!
The difference between 'that trial' and him, is that we all accept what ours is like and know that when the police come knocking, he's likely to be guilty as hell. In 'that trial' what was so pathetic was the insistence that their little Johnny was innocent and all his mates fault even after his pals ratted on him in court.
Mr O and I have had a long chat about him this morning and have decided to ask my sister to address the magistrates. If she agree's to what we have in mind and doesn't want to do it herself, I will do it.
We want the opportunity to tell the magistrates that we are in no doubt that this society is partly to blame where soft sentencing has allowed kids like him to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Due to soft sentencing he has been given licence to carry on making his crimes more serious as he goes on until one day, some-one will be seriously hurt. We will ask the magistrates that the family wish that they pass nothing less than a custodial sentence with an order that he is not to be returned to the sink estate where he lives on release.
We think that my sister will agree as she can't take any more.
I know he'll hate us at the time but what other option is there?
If I didn't love the little shyte as much as i did, I wouldn't be so upset over him. We found out today that he was in custody for so long because he would not grass his mates. Still hasn't and knowing him, they will never get it out of him.
He's on the left.
Attached files
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
I feel awful......
Oscar, it sounds like you and the family have done all a loving and supportive family can possibly do for your nephew. And it sounds like your nephew has come to depend on the family supporting his choice of lifestyle and to allow him to treat you all like ****.
Maybe it's time to let him face up to his decisions on his own. next time he is arrested ask the courts to give him the full measure of of detention allowed by law.
I am saying this from personal experience, my oldest son when he was 14 ran off and became what is called 'gang banger' and started doing a lot of what you describe your nephew is doing. my son choose to think that the praise of his gang banger buddies was much more important than anythig I had to say .
The first couple of times my son was arrested I went to court and did all the 'right' things to show him and the courts i am a loving and supportive parent and would bring him home ,just to have the little **** run off and go right back to the gang he had joined. About the 3rd time I have to take from work and show up in court , I ask the judge to 'throw the book ' at him . My son spent 11 months locked up . I showed up every week on time to our family counseling sessions , I did everything I could think of to make him understand that he was loved and wanted UNLESS he continued to make the wrong decisions and choices and then he would still be loved and wanted but it would be while i was raising his siblings and he was sitting in jail.
He was really mad for a while that I had 'turned my back' ,, ' ratted him out ' ,, etc,,,
and I was very worried that I had lost him for good. but it had come down to me having to choose between spending all my energy and time on his making the wrong choices and continuing bad behavior and my neglecting my other two kids that were staying in school and making the right choices . I couldn't see allowing him to take up all my attention when the other two still needed me also. It was his decision to turn away from what he had at home and run off.
And thank goodness my choice to show 'tough love ' worked .
I hadn't read your last post about talking to the magistrates . Good luck and know my thoughts are with you as you try this.
Maybe it's time to let him face up to his decisions on his own. next time he is arrested ask the courts to give him the full measure of of detention allowed by law.
I am saying this from personal experience, my oldest son when he was 14 ran off and became what is called 'gang banger' and started doing a lot of what you describe your nephew is doing. my son choose to think that the praise of his gang banger buddies was much more important than anythig I had to say .
The first couple of times my son was arrested I went to court and did all the 'right' things to show him and the courts i am a loving and supportive parent and would bring him home ,just to have the little **** run off and go right back to the gang he had joined. About the 3rd time I have to take from work and show up in court , I ask the judge to 'throw the book ' at him . My son spent 11 months locked up . I showed up every week on time to our family counseling sessions , I did everything I could think of to make him understand that he was loved and wanted UNLESS he continued to make the wrong decisions and choices and then he would still be loved and wanted but it would be while i was raising his siblings and he was sitting in jail.
He was really mad for a while that I had 'turned my back' ,, ' ratted him out ' ,, etc,,,
and I was very worried that I had lost him for good. but it had come down to me having to choose between spending all my energy and time on his making the wrong choices and continuing bad behavior and my neglecting my other two kids that were staying in school and making the right choices . I couldn't see allowing him to take up all my attention when the other two still needed me also. It was his decision to turn away from what he had at home and run off.
And thank goodness my choice to show 'tough love ' worked .
I hadn't read your last post about talking to the magistrates . Good luck and know my thoughts are with you as you try this.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
I feel awful......
oscar;1164712 wrote: Thankyou for taking the interest. :-6 I was the recipient of 'Tough Love' from my parents as a teenager although my crimes were smoking in school or wearing too much make up. On the subject of the pathetic system in this country and as an example of our human rights laws.... He was grounded but he just walked out the door. If his father had physically restrained him from doing so, his father would have and could have been arrested for assaulting him. When his dad locked him in his room, he kicked the window out and was gone. If his dad had restraned him, he could have been charged with 'false imprisonment'. That is the law here for parents and children and most kids know the law and know their parents haven't got a leg to stand on. We can't have kids being hit or beaten by parents but this pc crap here has gone too far.
Thanks again Nomad.
I find it almost impossible to believe your greatest transgression was wearing lipstick.
My image of you has been shredded.
Thanks again Nomad.
I find it almost impossible to believe your greatest transgression was wearing lipstick.
My image of you has been shredded.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
I feel awful......
It is the same here as far as a parent being up on charges of abuse if they put a hand on their kid.
The court will send a kid home under house arrest and make it clear that the parent has to make the kid go to school and be home at a certain time every evening and ya da ya da ya da .
But if the kid won't 'follow' the rules the parent can't make him/her . The parent can't group the kid , because then it's the parents fault the kid wasn't in school. Can't spank the kid because that's abuse. Can't restrain him/her or it's abuse.
It doesn't do any good to call the cops because unless the kid has run away there is nothing to report . The courts won't do anything until the kid has been caught breaking the law and shows back up in court.
And now if your kid misses to many days from school they are putting the parents in jail.
if your kid is picked up and put in juvenile detention ,if the parent isn't there to get the kid out within a certain amount of hours the parent can be charged with neglect and abandonment.
The kids now days have the upper hand and the parents are 'over the barrel ' and these kids know it !!!
The court will send a kid home under house arrest and make it clear that the parent has to make the kid go to school and be home at a certain time every evening and ya da ya da ya da .
But if the kid won't 'follow' the rules the parent can't make him/her . The parent can't group the kid , because then it's the parents fault the kid wasn't in school. Can't spank the kid because that's abuse. Can't restrain him/her or it's abuse.
It doesn't do any good to call the cops because unless the kid has run away there is nothing to report . The courts won't do anything until the kid has been caught breaking the law and shows back up in court.
And now if your kid misses to many days from school they are putting the parents in jail.
if your kid is picked up and put in juvenile detention ,if the parent isn't there to get the kid out within a certain amount of hours the parent can be charged with neglect and abandonment.
The kids now days have the upper hand and the parents are 'over the barrel ' and these kids know it !!!
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
Nomad;1165083 wrote: I find it almost impossible to believe your greatest transgression was wearing lipstick.
My image of you has been shredded.:wah: OK there was a few I missed out.
Including being brought home by the police for staging a demo outside a monkey laboratory aged 15.
The rest you have to pay me for :wah:
My image of you has been shredded.:wah: OK there was a few I missed out.
Including being brought home by the police for staging a demo outside a monkey laboratory aged 15.
The rest you have to pay me for :wah:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
scholle-kid;1165134 wrote: It is the same here as far as a parent being up on charges of abuse if they put a hand on their kid.
The court will send a kid home under house arrest and make it clear that the parent has to make the kid go to school and be home at a certain time every evening and ya da ya da ya da .
But if the kid won't 'follow' the rules the parent can't make him/her . The parent can't group the kid , because then it's the parents fault the kid wasn't in school. Can't spank the kid because that's abuse. Can't restrain him/her or it's abuse.
It doesn't do any good to call the cops because unless the kid has run away there is nothing to report . The courts won't do anything until the kid has been caught breaking the law and shows back up in court.
And now if your kid misses to many days from school they are putting the parents in jail.
if your kid is picked up and put in juvenile detention ,if the parent isn't there to get the kid out within a certain amount of hours the parent can be charged with neglect and abandonment.
The kids now days have the upper hand and the parents are 'over the barrel ' and these kids know it !!!
Thankyou.
Both of your posts are from the heart and i can tell you feel the same helplessness as i do.
I have spent most of the day listening to my husband telling me that if my sister won't address the court and ask for a custodial sentence, then i have to be cruel to be kind and just do it on the day without her knowing my intention.
There are other adults in the family that are saying we have to kick him out and let him get on with it. That's something we can never do. I would never give up on him although I have told him before that the day he hurts an innocent, I will walk away from him. Many kids get into bother because there is no-one to care about their future. He has it all yet as you say, it's thrown in your faces at times.
Then there is the laws here that sound the same as yours. When a parent can be charged with assault for trying to restrain their child, these pc laws have to be abolished.
What i believe has happened in Britain, is that accountability has been systematically removed from any authority or influence in a kids life. The kids are not accountable any more to anything or anybody, not their parents, their school, their local authority, their police and even themselves.
We have a middle generation here who have used our benifit system as a way of life and not a safety net. We have estates full of families where mum and dad , Ha.... if there is a dad....have never worked or contributed to their country. Tax payers PAY for them to be parents for life and a get out to contribute to society. The one thing that stood out to me as a teenager was that i was actually proud of both my parents. My biggest fear as a teenager would be that I made them ashamed of me.The kids now don't even seem to have that. They don't seem to care or think about the people around them. With my nephew, he is loving, good to his mum, good with his younger siblings and polite and curteous. Today I have been thinking what it is that makes him want to be in a gang. Does he feel a sense of belonging within it that he's missing some-where and we're too blind to notice? Then the vicious circle begins where other kids look up to him because he's a rogue and they want to emulate him.
As i said before, if i had all the answers, I'd be the richest politican alive.
The court will send a kid home under house arrest and make it clear that the parent has to make the kid go to school and be home at a certain time every evening and ya da ya da ya da .
But if the kid won't 'follow' the rules the parent can't make him/her . The parent can't group the kid , because then it's the parents fault the kid wasn't in school. Can't spank the kid because that's abuse. Can't restrain him/her or it's abuse.
It doesn't do any good to call the cops because unless the kid has run away there is nothing to report . The courts won't do anything until the kid has been caught breaking the law and shows back up in court.
And now if your kid misses to many days from school they are putting the parents in jail.
if your kid is picked up and put in juvenile detention ,if the parent isn't there to get the kid out within a certain amount of hours the parent can be charged with neglect and abandonment.
The kids now days have the upper hand and the parents are 'over the barrel ' and these kids know it !!!
Thankyou.
Both of your posts are from the heart and i can tell you feel the same helplessness as i do.
I have spent most of the day listening to my husband telling me that if my sister won't address the court and ask for a custodial sentence, then i have to be cruel to be kind and just do it on the day without her knowing my intention.
There are other adults in the family that are saying we have to kick him out and let him get on with it. That's something we can never do. I would never give up on him although I have told him before that the day he hurts an innocent, I will walk away from him. Many kids get into bother because there is no-one to care about their future. He has it all yet as you say, it's thrown in your faces at times.
Then there is the laws here that sound the same as yours. When a parent can be charged with assault for trying to restrain their child, these pc laws have to be abolished.
What i believe has happened in Britain, is that accountability has been systematically removed from any authority or influence in a kids life. The kids are not accountable any more to anything or anybody, not their parents, their school, their local authority, their police and even themselves.
We have a middle generation here who have used our benifit system as a way of life and not a safety net. We have estates full of families where mum and dad , Ha.... if there is a dad....have never worked or contributed to their country. Tax payers PAY for them to be parents for life and a get out to contribute to society. The one thing that stood out to me as a teenager was that i was actually proud of both my parents. My biggest fear as a teenager would be that I made them ashamed of me.The kids now don't even seem to have that. They don't seem to care or think about the people around them. With my nephew, he is loving, good to his mum, good with his younger siblings and polite and curteous. Today I have been thinking what it is that makes him want to be in a gang. Does he feel a sense of belonging within it that he's missing some-where and we're too blind to notice? Then the vicious circle begins where other kids look up to him because he's a rogue and they want to emulate him.
As i said before, if i had all the answers, I'd be the richest politican alive.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
I feel awful......
I think that the times when my son was polite to the judge and said yes mam , no mam , yes sir etc... and was loving to his brother and sister when we were in them family counseling sessions are the times i would get so double cam angry at him i wanted to " rip his head off and do do down his neck" (just a figure of speech)
because to me that showed he knew how to do right and that made his wrong choices and bad decisions even stupider in my book.
All I could ever figure about that 'joining a gang' has a lot to do with what you were saying about accountability, I remember as a kid getting the attention I deserved , if I messed up ,yup my grandma was right there with her attention to my mess and i was held accountable , if I did right then again I got the positive attention . But now days parents can't give the attention that makes a kid accountable for their mistakes. now days it's taught " There are no losers or winners' every one gets a cookie cuz everyone is equally different. A parent that cares enough to take the time to try and teach their kids right from wrong is faced with a whole system of 'experts' that will tell your kid at every turn how wrong you are.
The first time the judge sent Jason home under house arrest with that long list of rules, I ask the judge how did he figure i was going to be able to MAKE Jason do these things ? I mean to the math, here we stand in court because my son decided he didn't have to listen to me and so he ran off and broke the law and here we stand. I told the judge that I had a couple of cords of firewood that needed to be split and stacked for the winter and if Jason didn't want to do as he was court ordered then fine he could spend his time working on the pile of firewood. Nope, the judge told me that if the next time he seen Jason ,and if Jason told him that was what had happened ,I would be charged with child abuse and all 3 of my kids would be taken away and I could face jail time. so Jason could do whatever he pleased and I would be held accountable for it.
Well, Jason has 3 kids now , two of them in school and when ever he starts pissin and moaning about how them teachers are pretty darn ignorant about raising his kids , I remind him that he has the luck of having seen both sides of the coin.. And he better take steps now while they are still babies ( the oldest one is 6years old) and be prepared to Handel whats coming his way.
Sorry for rambling, I haven'y remembered in a very long time ,the intense emotional roll coaster that we were on those couple of yeras.. It makes me want to smack him now that it wouyldn't be child abues ,,, :yh_rotfl
because to me that showed he knew how to do right and that made his wrong choices and bad decisions even stupider in my book.
All I could ever figure about that 'joining a gang' has a lot to do with what you were saying about accountability, I remember as a kid getting the attention I deserved , if I messed up ,yup my grandma was right there with her attention to my mess and i was held accountable , if I did right then again I got the positive attention . But now days parents can't give the attention that makes a kid accountable for their mistakes. now days it's taught " There are no losers or winners' every one gets a cookie cuz everyone is equally different. A parent that cares enough to take the time to try and teach their kids right from wrong is faced with a whole system of 'experts' that will tell your kid at every turn how wrong you are.
The first time the judge sent Jason home under house arrest with that long list of rules, I ask the judge how did he figure i was going to be able to MAKE Jason do these things ? I mean to the math, here we stand in court because my son decided he didn't have to listen to me and so he ran off and broke the law and here we stand. I told the judge that I had a couple of cords of firewood that needed to be split and stacked for the winter and if Jason didn't want to do as he was court ordered then fine he could spend his time working on the pile of firewood. Nope, the judge told me that if the next time he seen Jason ,and if Jason told him that was what had happened ,I would be charged with child abuse and all 3 of my kids would be taken away and I could face jail time. so Jason could do whatever he pleased and I would be held accountable for it.
Well, Jason has 3 kids now , two of them in school and when ever he starts pissin and moaning about how them teachers are pretty darn ignorant about raising his kids , I remind him that he has the luck of having seen both sides of the coin.. And he better take steps now while they are still babies ( the oldest one is 6years old) and be prepared to Handel whats coming his way.
Sorry for rambling, I haven'y remembered in a very long time ,the intense emotional roll coaster that we were on those couple of yeras.. It makes me want to smack him now that it wouyldn't be child abues ,,, :yh_rotfl
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
I feel awful......
Oscar, I know exactly the intense roller coaster hell you are on right now.
All you can do is stand by and scream silently at the top of your lungs at this child of your family.
But, the law enforcement department is the only one you have. And no amount of you going in there and pointing out where they are not doing things by the book and providing to them where they are screwing up will matter one tiny bit to them.
And really, your nephew having to sit there an extra hour my be against the law and him not getting a video used when they were taking his statement is again against his rights and against the law, but , nether of these were harmful to his well being.
And if there was any chance in this whole dam world that you going in and telling the court , showing with proof how the boys rights has been spat on ,if the was a chance that it would make the cops do things right , oscar I would be on a plane right now to be there cheering you while you said what you would say. But, it wouldn't make one tiny little bit of nothing change.
But, you going in and pushing for all the charges to be dropped my in the long run be harmful to your boys well being.
Oscar, tough love isn't just tough on the one receiving it, as a matter of pure fact it is harder on the giver then on the receiver. Why ? because it is coming from a broken , beaten ,stomped on heart that is at it wits end.
In the beginning it will make him so angry and that anger will be his cover to hide behind while you will have been stripped of all defences all protection and laid bare for the sharp edge of his anger to torture your already broken heart. I am not bull shing you Oscar, I would rather have the worst torture imaginable to man then to ever have to see that look on my sons face again when he heard me asking that judge to please give him everything to the fullest extent of the law allowed.
But, after that moment , and while he's still so angry that all you see and feel from him is pure hate, you continue to give him the tender caring love you have always gave him and it will sink in to his dummy teenage Brian that you never have withdrew you love from him , it was him not you that caused the hell . And you willl one moment see the 'light bulb' go on in hie eyes and that is the moment he will start his journey back to the family that has never given up on him.
That's the pay off for unconditional love.
Heres a hug from New Mexico to over there where ya'll are .
I am not on a plane but I want you to know i will keep you and your family in my thoughts.
All you can do is stand by and scream silently at the top of your lungs at this child of your family.
But, the law enforcement department is the only one you have. And no amount of you going in there and pointing out where they are not doing things by the book and providing to them where they are screwing up will matter one tiny bit to them.
And really, your nephew having to sit there an extra hour my be against the law and him not getting a video used when they were taking his statement is again against his rights and against the law, but , nether of these were harmful to his well being.
And if there was any chance in this whole dam world that you going in and telling the court , showing with proof how the boys rights has been spat on ,if the was a chance that it would make the cops do things right , oscar I would be on a plane right now to be there cheering you while you said what you would say. But, it wouldn't make one tiny little bit of nothing change.
But, you going in and pushing for all the charges to be dropped my in the long run be harmful to your boys well being.
Oscar, tough love isn't just tough on the one receiving it, as a matter of pure fact it is harder on the giver then on the receiver. Why ? because it is coming from a broken , beaten ,stomped on heart that is at it wits end.
In the beginning it will make him so angry and that anger will be his cover to hide behind while you will have been stripped of all defences all protection and laid bare for the sharp edge of his anger to torture your already broken heart. I am not bull shing you Oscar, I would rather have the worst torture imaginable to man then to ever have to see that look on my sons face again when he heard me asking that judge to please give him everything to the fullest extent of the law allowed.
But, after that moment , and while he's still so angry that all you see and feel from him is pure hate, you continue to give him the tender caring love you have always gave him and it will sink in to his dummy teenage Brian that you never have withdrew you love from him , it was him not you that caused the hell . And you willl one moment see the 'light bulb' go on in hie eyes and that is the moment he will start his journey back to the family that has never given up on him.
That's the pay off for unconditional love.
Heres a hug from New Mexico to over there where ya'll are .
I am not on a plane but I want you to know i will keep you and your family in my thoughts.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
scholle-kid;1165537 wrote: Oscar, I know exactly the intense roller coaster hell you are on right now.
All you can do is stand by and scream silently at the top of your lungs at this child of your family.
But, the law enforcement department is the only one you have. And no amount of you going in there and pointing out where they are not doing things by the book and providing to them where they are screwing up will matter one tiny bit to them.
And really, your nephew having to sit there an extra hour my be against the law and him not getting a video used when they were taking his statement is again against his rights and against the law, but , nether of these were harmful to his well being.
And if there was any chance in this whole dam world that you going in and telling the court , showing with proof how the boys rights has been spat on ,if the was a chance that it would make the cops do things right , oscar I would be on a plane right now to be there cheering you while you said what you would say. But, it wouldn't make one tiny little bit of nothing change.
But, you going in and pushing for all the charges to be dropped my in the long run be harmful to your boys well being.
Oscar, tough love isn't just tough on the one receiving it, as a matter of pure fact it is harder on the giver then on the receiver. Why ? because it is coming from a broken , beaten ,stomped on heart that is at it wits end.
In the beginning it will make him so angry and that anger will be his cover to hide behind while you will have been stripped of all defences all protection and laid bare for the sharp edge of his anger to torture your already broken heart. I am not bull shing you Oscar, I would rather have the worst torture imaginable to man then to ever have to see that look on my sons face again when he heard me asking that judge to please give him everything to the fullest extent of the law allowed.
But, after that moment , and while he's still so angry that all you see and feel from him is pure hate, you continue to give him the tender caring love you have always gave him and it will sink in to his dummy teenage Brian that you never have withdrew you love from him , it was him not you that caused the hell . And you willl one moment see the 'light bulb' go on in hie eyes and that is the moment he will start his journey back to the family that has never given up on him.
That's the pay off for unconditional love.
Heres a hug from New Mexico to over there where ya'll are .
I am not on a plane but I want you to know i will keep you and your family in my thoughts. Thanks again and i have taken your words on board.
I was furious when i heard that he'd been held for 17 hours which is against police proceedure and they should have used video due to his age.
First of all, the police in this country are not as they are in America. We have officers who abuse their position and daily our newspapers are full of them. The Police complaints commission is inundated with cases. If we do not address proceedure, the next kid could be held 18 hours...then what's to stop them holding a kid for 24 hrs or 36 hours without a drink or food if it goes un-reported.?
The reason video must be used is that at 15 it is possible to put words in their mouth. If interview is recorded, it stops the police from doing it. It is there tp protect the police from allegations as well as protect the child. A child could end up saying anything just to get out of there.
I was angry with the police when i heard this and i reacted with a kneejerk reaction. It will not affect his court appearence as if i do follow it through, it'll be with the Police complaints commission who will investigate seperately.
He is due to arrive here tomorrow around 5 pm for a week. It'll be interesting to hear what he has to say once his mother is out of earshot. He knows he is going to get grief here but he still wants to come.
All you can do is stand by and scream silently at the top of your lungs at this child of your family.
But, the law enforcement department is the only one you have. And no amount of you going in there and pointing out where they are not doing things by the book and providing to them where they are screwing up will matter one tiny bit to them.
And really, your nephew having to sit there an extra hour my be against the law and him not getting a video used when they were taking his statement is again against his rights and against the law, but , nether of these were harmful to his well being.
And if there was any chance in this whole dam world that you going in and telling the court , showing with proof how the boys rights has been spat on ,if the was a chance that it would make the cops do things right , oscar I would be on a plane right now to be there cheering you while you said what you would say. But, it wouldn't make one tiny little bit of nothing change.
But, you going in and pushing for all the charges to be dropped my in the long run be harmful to your boys well being.
Oscar, tough love isn't just tough on the one receiving it, as a matter of pure fact it is harder on the giver then on the receiver. Why ? because it is coming from a broken , beaten ,stomped on heart that is at it wits end.
In the beginning it will make him so angry and that anger will be his cover to hide behind while you will have been stripped of all defences all protection and laid bare for the sharp edge of his anger to torture your already broken heart. I am not bull shing you Oscar, I would rather have the worst torture imaginable to man then to ever have to see that look on my sons face again when he heard me asking that judge to please give him everything to the fullest extent of the law allowed.
But, after that moment , and while he's still so angry that all you see and feel from him is pure hate, you continue to give him the tender caring love you have always gave him and it will sink in to his dummy teenage Brian that you never have withdrew you love from him , it was him not you that caused the hell . And you willl one moment see the 'light bulb' go on in hie eyes and that is the moment he will start his journey back to the family that has never given up on him.
That's the pay off for unconditional love.
Heres a hug from New Mexico to over there where ya'll are .
I am not on a plane but I want you to know i will keep you and your family in my thoughts. Thanks again and i have taken your words on board.
I was furious when i heard that he'd been held for 17 hours which is against police proceedure and they should have used video due to his age.
First of all, the police in this country are not as they are in America. We have officers who abuse their position and daily our newspapers are full of them. The Police complaints commission is inundated with cases. If we do not address proceedure, the next kid could be held 18 hours...then what's to stop them holding a kid for 24 hrs or 36 hours without a drink or food if it goes un-reported.?
The reason video must be used is that at 15 it is possible to put words in their mouth. If interview is recorded, it stops the police from doing it. It is there tp protect the police from allegations as well as protect the child. A child could end up saying anything just to get out of there.
I was angry with the police when i heard this and i reacted with a kneejerk reaction. It will not affect his court appearence as if i do follow it through, it'll be with the Police complaints commission who will investigate seperately.
He is due to arrive here tomorrow around 5 pm for a week. It'll be interesting to hear what he has to say once his mother is out of earshot. He knows he is going to get grief here but he still wants to come.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
I feel awful......
A few weeks ago here in the USA there was a video of a police officer literary beating , kicking punching and screaming at a 15 year old girl that was in a jail cell and in this video another officer was standing by watching the whole thing not doing anything , nothing ,but watching her being drug around by her hair and screamed insults in her face while being beaten by a fairly good sized male police officer.
last week a police officer pulled over a couple in Texas that were speeding to the hospital because the wife's mother was on her death bed dying of breast cancer. it was late at nite and very little to no traffic at all. The guy had ran a couple of stop signs and one red light. when the cop got after him he kept going till he was at the hospital . The chop refused to believe the man and would not let him go be with the family at that time. As it turned out the wife just got out of the car and left. She walked into her mothers room in time to hear her mothers last breath. the cop threatened to arrest the husband and all kinds of stuff wrote him a couple of tickets that were later dismissed and thrown out. and the cop is has been put on administrative leave.
I am not trying to have a " my cop is worse than your cop' contest , I am simply pointing out it sounds like our cops go to the same 'how to be a real ****** cop school 101.
last week a police officer pulled over a couple in Texas that were speeding to the hospital because the wife's mother was on her death bed dying of breast cancer. it was late at nite and very little to no traffic at all. The guy had ran a couple of stop signs and one red light. when the cop got after him he kept going till he was at the hospital . The chop refused to believe the man and would not let him go be with the family at that time. As it turned out the wife just got out of the car and left. She walked into her mothers room in time to hear her mothers last breath. the cop threatened to arrest the husband and all kinds of stuff wrote him a couple of tickets that were later dismissed and thrown out. and the cop is has been put on administrative leave.
I am not trying to have a " my cop is worse than your cop' contest , I am simply pointing out it sounds like our cops go to the same 'how to be a real ****** cop school 101.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
scholle-kid;1165802 wrote: A few weeks ago here in the USA there was a video of a police officer literary beating , kicking punching and screaming at a 15 year old girl that was in a jail cell and in this video another officer was standing by watching the whole thing not doing anything , nothing ,but watching her being drug around by her hair and screamed insults in her face while being beaten by a fairly good sized male police officer.
last week a police officer pulled over a couple in Texas that were speeding to the hospital because the wife's mother was on her death bed dying of breast cancer. it was late at nite and very little to no traffic at all. The guy had ran a couple of stop signs and one red light. when the cop got after him he kept going till he was at the hospital . The chop refused to believe the man and would not let him go be with the family at that time. As it turned out the wife just got out of the car and left. She walked into her mothers room in time to hear her mothers last breath. the cop threatened to arrest the husband and all kinds of stuff wrote him a couple of tickets that were later dismissed and thrown out. and the cop is has been put on administrative leave.
I am not trying to have a " my cop is worse than your cop' contest , I am simply pointing out it sounds like our cops go to the same 'how to be a real ****** cop school 101.
I saw the video of the 15 yr old being punched in the cell. Some officers do abuse their position especially here when they think the the subject has no idea of police proceedure and is likely to complain.
I don't know if you read all of the posts of this thread but my nephew is about to be a father in 3 weeks time which makes things a pile worse.
I've just had a phone call. His girlfriends waters have just broken so his stay is off. The baby should be here soon. :-4
last week a police officer pulled over a couple in Texas that were speeding to the hospital because the wife's mother was on her death bed dying of breast cancer. it was late at nite and very little to no traffic at all. The guy had ran a couple of stop signs and one red light. when the cop got after him he kept going till he was at the hospital . The chop refused to believe the man and would not let him go be with the family at that time. As it turned out the wife just got out of the car and left. She walked into her mothers room in time to hear her mothers last breath. the cop threatened to arrest the husband and all kinds of stuff wrote him a couple of tickets that were later dismissed and thrown out. and the cop is has been put on administrative leave.
I am not trying to have a " my cop is worse than your cop' contest , I am simply pointing out it sounds like our cops go to the same 'how to be a real ****** cop school 101.
I saw the video of the 15 yr old being punched in the cell. Some officers do abuse their position especially here when they think the the subject has no idea of police proceedure and is likely to complain.
I don't know if you read all of the posts of this thread but my nephew is about to be a father in 3 weeks time which makes things a pile worse.
I've just had a phone call. His girlfriends waters have just broken so his stay is off. The baby should be here soon. :-4
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
I feel awful......
I think I may be going nutty.
I read your post about the phone call and the week visit beening canceled cuz yopur nephew was on the way to the hospital. And I hit the quote button and sid congradulations to 'great auntie oscar' and said you sounded like you are alredy a 'great aunt' . wished the new mommy and bay well hope everything turns out good fir the new family.
I thought I posted it . but don't see it ..
I read your post about the phone call and the week visit beening canceled cuz yopur nephew was on the way to the hospital. And I hit the quote button and sid congradulations to 'great auntie oscar' and said you sounded like you are alredy a 'great aunt' . wished the new mommy and bay well hope everything turns out good fir the new family.
I thought I posted it . but don't see it ..
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
I feel awful......
scholle-kid;1165840 wrote: I think I may be going nutty.
I read your post about the phone call and the week visit beening canceled cuz yopur nephew was on the way to the hospital. And I hit the quote button and sid congradulations to 'great auntie oscar' and said you sounded like you are alredy a 'great aunt' . wished the new mommy and bay well hope everything turns out good fir the new family.
I thought I posted it . but don't see it .. Yes i saw your post on the thread 'teenage talk....what is munch?.
I just posted on the thread 'my teenage tearaway is hours from being a Dad'. All is well and i hope this will bring him to his senses.
I will up-date this thread when i have more news on his court appearence.
Thankyou. :-4
I read your post about the phone call and the week visit beening canceled cuz yopur nephew was on the way to the hospital. And I hit the quote button and sid congradulations to 'great auntie oscar' and said you sounded like you are alredy a 'great aunt' . wished the new mommy and bay well hope everything turns out good fir the new family.
I thought I posted it . but don't see it .. Yes i saw your post on the thread 'teenage talk....what is munch?.
I just posted on the thread 'my teenage tearaway is hours from being a Dad'. All is well and i hope this will bring him to his senses.
I will up-date this thread when i have more news on his court appearence.
Thankyou. :-4
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon