I feel awful......

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:13 pm

I feel terrible right now and don't know what to say to some-one who is quite close to me.

I had an e mail asking me for advice. Their teenage son has robbed a lorry and she has found the contents in his room. She doesn't want to tell his father or shop him to the police but obviousley she has to deal with him some-how as it is breaking the law.

I e mailed her back and said my advice would be a car-boot sale or a small stall in the local market.

I haven't heard back from her as it looks as if Oscar has typed before the brain was engaged first.

I don't know what to do now and i feel quite bad. :-3:-3:-3

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:21 pm

Tough Call..Havent a clue how I would react to that to be honest. Damned if you do, damned if you dont...

My best mates brother turned to Heroin and he was living in a house his mum and dad bought as a retirement nest egg. When they finally realised he was a heroin addict, they snooped round the house and found a large amount of drugs in the bottom of a wardrobe. Apparently in return for drugs he would stash the stuff for his dealer. His mum shopped him to the police and he got a few years jail. The stress of it all pushed the whole family apart, he came out of prison but couldnt forgive her and he had a worse heroin habit than when he went in. His Dad died 6 months after him getting out of prison, he is still a junkie and has nothing to do with his family. Would she do the same again? Yes she would but were all different. You can only advise from the heart Oscar.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:34 pm

Chezzie;1162823 wrote: Tough Call..Havent a clue how I would react to that to be honest. Damned if you do, damned if you dont...

My best mates brother turned to Heroin and he was living in a house his mum and dad bought as a retirement nest egg. When they finally realised he was a heroin addict, they snooped round the house and found a large amount of drugs in the bottom of a wardrobe. Apparently in return for drugs he would stash the stuff for his dealer. His mum shopped him to the police and he got a few years jail. The stress of it all pushed the whole family apart, he came out of prison but couldnt forgive her and he had a worse heroin habit than when he went in. His Dad died 6 months after him getting out of prison, he is still a junkie and has nothing to do with his family. Would she do the same again? Yes she would but were all different. You can only advise from the heart Oscar. Well, I'll be honest here as i have discussed him on this forum before. He is actually my nephew. I have teenagers coming out of my ears in my family and everyone of them is a credit. They either have good jobs, doing well in sport or doing great in college. It's just him, he s the rogue one. Between the age of 14 and 15 yrs old, he has been arrested 10 times. The police in his area just make a bee-line for him now even searching him in the street when he's just hanging out. We can't even say that he has got in with the wrong crowd as he is the wrong crowd. Alot of his arrests are to do with gangs and turf. He was in court throughout my trial to really teach him a lesson but of course, he witnessed the officer punching the air at my verdict and although she is being dealt with, his opinion of the police has now gone from bad to worse.

How the heck can i advise him when he thinks what i did was 'Well Mint' to quote him.

The last time he appeared before the maistrate i really thought it would be youth detention. He had 'twoked' a car and was caught driving around the town in the small hours with his mates on board at 15 yrs old. The magistrate gave him 40 hours community service, a £55 fine and they said my sister was a good mother. If the crime is not that serious, the police just keep giving him cautions....... naturally, he walks out the nick laughing at them.

I can have him here for a while but he has to go back to his home and his gang at some point. I don't want him arrested but having said that, the police are probably already round there now and his father will go mental which will result in my sister getting upset.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:44 pm

oscar;1162833 wrote: Well, I'll be honest here as i have discussed him on this forum before. He is actually my nephew. I have teenagers coming out of my ears in my family and everyone of them is a credit. They either have good jobs, doing well in sport or doing great in college. It's just him, he s the rogue one. Between the age of 14 and 15 yrs old, he has been arrested 10 times. The police in his area just make a bee-line for him now even searching him in the street when he's just hanging out. We can't even say that he has got in with the wrong crowd as he is the wrong crowd. Alot of his arrests are to do with gangs and turf. He was in court throughout my trial to really teach him a lesson but of course, he witnessed the officer punching the air at my verdict and although she is being dealt with, his opinion of the police has now gone from bad to worse.

How the heck can i advise him when he thinks what i did was 'Well Mint' to quote him.

The last time he appeared before the maistrate i really thought it would be youth detention. He had 'twoked' a car and was caught driving around the town in the small hours with his mates on board at 15 yrs old. The magistrate gave him 40 hours community service, a £55 fine and they said my sister was a good mother. If the crime is not that serious, the police just keep giving him cautions....... naturally, he walks out the nick laughing at them.

I can have him here for a while but he has to go back to his home and his gang at some point. I don't want him arrested but having said that, the police are probably already round there now and his father will go mental which will result in my sister getting upset.

Even worse when it's a member of your family. Sorry I have no advice. Just be there for your sister. :-4

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:57 pm

Toughest call of all is when it is family. Breaking the law, is breaking the law he will pay now or later, just a matter of time. Just support your sister and be there for her.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:05 pm

Chezzie;1162840 wrote: Even worse when it's a member of your family. Sorry I have no advice. Just be there for your sister. :-4 Yes, I will. It's a real puzzle with him as to look at him, he's a hoodie. His mum is also freaked out because she's just got back from visiting family and some tatooist who i will track down and report, has tattooed a dot on each knuckle. I left him a message on facebook today and saw he's changed his profile pic. The new one is with his mates showing these dots and they've all got them. It's very hard to admit you have a scroat in the family yet this is what is so baffling with him. He will give up his seat on the bus for a woman, he'll open doors in shops for elder peeps, He was outraged at the vandalism by kids his own age to our war memorial and he'll never throw his rubbish on the ground. So he's been raised with all the same morals as the others but i can't put my finger on it with him. Auntie Oscar will be speaking to him tomorrow and I'll see what he says.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:08 pm

CARLA;1162853 wrote: Toughest call of all is when it is family. Breaking the law, is breaking the law he will pay now or later, just a matter of time. Just support your sister and be there for her. Thanks Carla. What worries me is that he started off being arrested for trivial things and his crimes have just got worse and worse. I mean, robbing a lorry?....That's just terrible. I went crazy at him when he was found speeding in a car at 15 yrs old and i told him that one day soon I'd either be visitng him in the morgue or in prison. He just says 'Yeh I know'.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:10 pm

oscar;1162859 wrote: Yes, I will. It's a real puzzle with him as to look at him, he's a hoodie. His mum is also freaked out because she's just got back from visiting family and some tatooist who i will track down and report, has tattooed a dot on each knuckle. I left him a message on facebook today and saw he's changed his profile pic. The new one is with his mates showing these dots and they've all got them. It's very hard to admit you have a scroat in the family yet this is what is so baffling with him. He will give up his seat on the bus for a woman, he'll open doors in shops for elder peeps, He was outraged at the vandalism by kids his own age to our war memorial and he'll never throw his rubbish on the ground. So he's been raised with all the same morals as the others but i can't put my finger on it with him. Auntie Oscar will be speaking to him tomorrow and I'll see what he says.

Its not always down to how your raised, sometimes people either have a chip on their shoulder about life or feel like the world owes them something. End of the day though he is family and hopefully he will mature and realise theirs more to life than stealing ect...Good luck.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:16 pm

Chezzie;1162862 wrote: Its not always down to how your raised, sometimes people either have a chip on their shoulder about life or feel like the world owes them something. End of the day though he is family and hopefully he will mature and realise theirs more to life than stealing ect...Good luck. Thanks Chezz. I just decided that i'm going to offer to have him up here for a week or two to see if Pete can get any sense into him. He thinks the world of Pete and will actualy listen to him so it's a shame my sister lives so far away. I'm wondering if he fels left out as mum's just had a new baby.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:18 pm

the police are probably already round there now and his father will go mental which will result in my sister getting upset.
The father would would "go mental" how?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:43 pm

Peg;1162869 wrote: The father would would "go mental" how? Not in a violent way at all but would try to ground him and there will be lots of shouting. Last time they grounded him, he just walked out the door. Then they locked him in his room so he couldn't get out with this gang and he just kicked the window out and went down the drain-pipe. His dad has told me that he just doesn't know what to do with him any more. Neither do I Peg.

I just been on facebook and he's told me he loves me on my wall. He is so loving and we all love him to bits. That's why it's so hard to know what to do for the best.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Some of my toughest lessons came from being forced to do the right thing.

You know what the right thing is.

The value is in teaching him honor and respect.

Hes owed that lesson so that he can become an honorable and respectful man.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:17 pm

Nomad;1162972 wrote: Some of my toughest lessons came from being forced to do the right thing.

You know what the right thing is.

The value is in teaching him honor and respect.

Hes owed that lesson so that he can become an honorable and respectful man. Thanks Nomad but to be honest, His mum, Dad and I are at a loss now. As i said before, he is very loving and has good morals such as holding doors open in shops for the elderly but it's almost like he's testing every-one. Mr O said to me tonight that we will bring him to us for a couple of weeks and do some one on one away from the new baby and other siblings. We can only try!

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:24 pm

Oscar, perhaps he is missing out on attention. Does he love his mother, and can he see the terrible ordeal he is putting her through, and his dad? I think the only thing for him to do is to take some of the stuff, himself, to the police and admit what he has done. He will be treated less harshly. I think he is trying to appear 'big' and 'hard' in front of his peers. Is he taking drugs I wonder, because that can severely colour a youngsters actions and cause him to behave in such an irrational manner, and also become desparate in order to fund his habit? With his track record so far, I can see that he will not change without a severe shock, and escorting him with a car load of stolen stuff to the police and facing up to any punishment they will hand out to him may bring him to his senses. He has to do it himself to avoid his mum or anybody else having to 'grass him up' and suffer the fall-out from him. This will be his first step towards sorting himself out, otherwise I fear he will have gone too far to change any time soon - the longer it takes the harder it will be to bring him to his senses, I feel.

Removing him away from his immediate family, and more importantly from his 'friends' into a friendly environment with an uncle and aunt who he knows loves him, is a very good idea. One to one may help, so long as he does not feel he is being lectured. But it is definitely 'good to talk', he may open up to you and uncle 'O'.

All the very best to you Oscar, and I hope things can be sorted. Take care.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:27 pm

oscar;1162980 wrote: Thanks Nomad but to be honest, His mum, Dad and I are at a loss now. As i said before, he is very loving and has good morals such as holding doors open in shops for the elderly but it's almost like he's testing every-one. Mr O said to me tonight that we will bring him to us for a couple of weeks and do some one on one away from the new baby and other siblings. We can only try!

Maybe I missed a part but what became of the stolen items ?

Doesnt your family feel that needs to be resolved ?

I ask respectfully.

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:00 am

Sorry for you and your sister but as they say 'if you cant do the time dont do the crime'

By having the stuff in her house your sister is already in trouble, if you try to sell it thats fencing stolen goods. you could both end up in prison.

Why should his mum and his aunt have to get into trouble to save his sorry a***?

He has no thought for his family.

If this was any other report in a paper you would all be saying shop him and lock him up funny how things change when its one of your own.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:44 am

oscar;1162822 wrote: I feel terrible right now and don't know what to say to some-one who is quite close to me.

I had an e mail asking me for advice. Their teenage son has robbed a lorry and she has found the contents in his room. She doesn't want to tell his father or shop him to the police but obviousley she has to deal with him some-how as it is breaking the law.

I e mailed her back and said my advice would be a car-boot sale or a small stall in the local market.

I haven't heard back from her as it looks as if Oscar has typed before the brain was engaged first.

I don't know what to do now and i feel quite bad. :-3:-3:-3

That makes her an accessory to the crime and if the police find the stuff not beig a minor she gets a criminal record and kiss goodbye to getting credit. mortgage, even a job interview at some point in the future.

I knew one woman whose son was getting involved in the local gangs and kept getting picked up by the police. She got the police to take him to the cells throw him in and keep him in overnight. Admittedly this was back in the days when they didn't have to fill in so many forms and could use their common sense. A visit to an adult jail as well and the sound of the door slamming brought home the reality of what he was likely to end up facing if he kept it up . She also got him out of his environment. There were local groups that took "problem" teenagers out to the great outdoors-worked with some of the kids who have never been out of their home town and seeing their really cool mates who were inadequate out of their home environment environment-got them thinking I suppose. Most of the guys doing it were ex-military and came from pretty rough environments themselves and knew exactly what they were doing. Most gang members say they do things to get respect. Maybe it's an ape thing-just mixing with adult male company that isn't going to put up with any crap can change your perspective. maybe it's the realisation that some people just aren't going to find you impressive after all and see you as inadequate because you're a toerag. When you are a teenager what you do each day is intensive and peer group pressure so important it's hard to break the circle. But he's almost an adult and soon will pay adult consequences as some point you have to say the choices are yours now son, take the consequences.

I don't know what to do in these situations I'm not sure anyone does. But your sister's action can get get her in to serious trouble, knowingly selling on stolen goods is a think a more serious offence than stealing them.

Mutley · Post by **Mutley** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:22 am

I'm so sorry for your dilemma Oscar. I can't advise on what your sister should do but I can advise on the removing your nephew from the environment.

My nephew went off the rails years ago and was heading for real trouble. His mother (single mum) was at her wits end and was on the phone to me in tears every day. We live about 500 miles from her so couldn't do much. We decided to have him come and stay with us for a week to see if we could talk some sense into him.

A cocky little sh*t turned up, stole from us, burnt my sofa with cigarettes, downloaded porn, set fire to my kitchen and basically turned our home into hell! But after a few chats and a few tears he started to turn things around. He ended up staying for 8 weeks and we returned a reasonably sensible and quite polite boy to his mother. We were verbally cruel at times but it felt justified as it made him realise just what he was putting his mother through. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

He is by no means perfect but has grown into a man I am happy to know. He still has his moments but I think that he will make it.

My thoughts and hopes are with you and your sister. xoxo

Wendy

Imladris · Post by **Imladris** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:50 am

His mum needs to get the stolen stuff out of her house now, she's got stolen property in her house for goodness sake, does she really want the whole family tarred with his brush?

Sounds like this lad needs a dose of tough love, he might be loving, kind and have his own set of morals but he needs to learn that to be a valued member of society he has to conform to society's laws and moral standards - they don't include nicking stuff from lorries.

He's on a very slippery slope, if he doesn't do something to change he'll end up going to prison - that's it then, young life ruined.

God only knows how your family are going to deal with him, don't envy any of you and can only wish you luck.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:14 am

Nomad;1162986 wrote: Maybe I missed a part but what became of the stolen items ?

Doesnt your family feel that needs to be resolved ?

I ask respectfully.

Not at all, it's a fair question. To be honest, I believe my sister has just kept them out of sight from his father until she really knows what to do. She has had her house turned over twice before by plod looking for a weapon he allegedly used in a gang fight but they found nothing and couldn't charge him. They will waste no time in turning the house over again if they think he's involved. She is actually away for 2 days now as her toddler is going into 'Great Ormond Street Childrens hospital' which is a regular thing as she has a heart defect.

I can't get hold of her yet and of course she is now worried silly that her house will be raided and him arrested while she's away. I'm on stand-by if they pull him and I'll be with him in the nick if it happens.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:21 am

Imladris;1163124 wrote: His mum needs to get the stolen stuff out of her house now, she's got stolen property in her house for goodness sake, does she really want the whole family tarred with his brush?

Sounds like this lad needs a dose of tough love, he might be loving, kind and have his own set of morals but he needs to learn that to be a valued member of society he has to conform to society's laws and moral standards - they don't include nicking stuff from lorries.

He's on a very slippery slope, if he doesn't do something to change he'll end up going to prison - that's it then, young life ruined.

God only knows how your family are going to deal with him, don't envy any of you and can only wish you luck. This is the baffling point. All the teenagers and kids in our family are the opposite to him and just don't understand his behaviour either. My sister in MHO has tried almost everything. She even borrowed £2,000 from the government to put him on one of these apprentice schemes to become a qualified plumber, something I contributed to also. He walked out after about three weeks. She has had him seen by a variety of doctors and there is nothing mentally wrong with him. At home, he does his chores and contributes hugely to the care of his siblings especially his younger brother who is 7 yrs old and has learning difficulties.

I've always been worried that as the 'appointed' gang leader in his area, he'll end up being stabbed or shot one day.

BTW..... he has never done drugs or drunk alcohol. he calls the kids who take drugs and drink.... 'Muppets'.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:24 am

oscar;1162887 wrote: Not in a violent way at all but would try to ground him and there will be lots of shouting. Last time they grounded him, he just walked out the door. Then they locked him in his room so he couldn't get out with this gang and he just kicked the window out and went down the drain-pipe. His dad has told me that he just doesn't know what to do with him any more. Neither do I Peg.

I just been on facebook and he's told me he loves me on my wall. He is so loving and we all love him to bits. That's why it's so hard to know what to do for the best.

get me round there i keep him in touch

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:43 am

el guapo;1163241 wrote: get me round there i keep him in touch :wah: Well the last time he had the filth turning over my sisters house I threatened to take him out in the garden with the gloves off if he did it again so you can come as back up. :wah: Poor plods.... they spent 5 hours searching a 5 bedroomed house to find nothing. He never said a word to them in all that time and just as they were leaving with nothing he said to them 'Don't think I'd be dumb enough to bring it home do you'?

It's not funny really......he's ruining his life.

:(

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:08 am

oscar;1162980 wrote: he is very loving and has good morals such as holding doors open in shops for the elderly but it's almost like he's testing every-one

The Cray twins had nice manners. Sean Mercer was "a gang leader in his area". This youth has been stealing stuff from lorries - "good morals"? No way. "Testing everyone". What next. The police have previously looked for "a weapon he allegedly used in a gang fight"? He's interested in "gangs and turf"?!

Look at all the other issues you mention below - time to take the correct action, however much you dislike it. This needs dealing with officially. We're all part of the same society.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:51 am

Do the right thing. Its important on many levels.

Ill shut up and butt out now.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:55 am

Bill Sikes;1163276 wrote: The Cray twins had nice manners. Sean Mercer was "a gang leader in his area". This youth has been stealing stuff from lorries - "good morals"? No way. "Testing everyone". What next. The police have previously looked for "a weapon he allegedly used in a gang fight"? He's interested in "gangs and turf"?!

Look at all the other issues you mention below - time to take the correct action, however much you dislike it. This needs dealing with officially. We're all part of the same society. I respect your opinion Bill and no way am i making excuses for him, however, until it's 'one of your own' it's a difficult problem. I have more issue's with hoodies than i will post here but most members here know i have been fighting these gangs of yobs for years and explored why they are like they are. One thing i have had said to me by the hoodie's around my own area, is that if you live on a sink estate with gangs of hoodie's, you either join them or become a victem yourself. I am not entirely sure if this is correct as I'm not a 15 yr old Hoodie living on a sink estate myself. Even the police themselves have told me that many will join a gang under peer pressure. I know that in the case of my nephew, he has never insigated a fight where he has used a weapon. Yes, most certainly, he uses his fists and feet, I'll admit that. Some of his arrests have purely been for possession of a weapon and he's been cautioned each time. I have ranted at him that of course the police are going to stop him and search him every time he sets outside the house if they know he is likely to be carrying. I've ranted the question at him as to why is he so dumb to take out a weapon if he has no real intention of using it because he just gives the police reason to pull him. He has said, if he doesn't take a weapon, a weapon could be used on him and he needs to protect himself. It's another world to me that i can't lay claim to understanding.

You are right with your reference to the Krays. Here we are saying the same of my nephew..... 'He's a good boy who's good to his mother, has impecable manners out in public but only hurts his own kind.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:59 am

Nomad;1163283 wrote: Do the right thing. Its important on many levels.

Ill shut up and butt out now. Don't butt out Nomie..... Life would be dull wothout you

I do value your input.

OK FG's....this is where the story just gets worse and worse.

In 3 weeks time..... the 15 yr old in question is about to be a father!!!!!!!!

I have put a thread on this a few months back as we were all horrified naturally.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:09 pm

oscar;1163286 wrote: until it's 'one of your own' it's a difficult problem

I agree. However, there comes a stage when inaction is worse than action.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:20 pm

oscar;1162822 wrote: I feel terrible right now and don't know what to say to some-one who is quite close to me.

I had an e mail asking me for advice. Their teenage son has robbed a lorry and she has found the contents in his room. She doesn't want to tell his father or shop him to the police but obviousley she has to deal with him some-how as it is breaking the law.

I e mailed her back and said my advice would be a car-boot sale or a small stall in the local market.

I haven't heard back from her as it looks as if Oscar has typed before the brain was engaged first.

I don't know what to do now and i feel quite bad. :-3:-3:-3

Doh! I thought the car boot or a small store at the market was punishment for your nephew for robbing the lorry, not to sell on the goods... Definitely not a good idea...

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:28 pm

Ok I cant keep my mouth shut.

The father doesnt know ? He needs to know.

Mom and dad need to gather up the stolen items and son and have him turn himself in. If you can afford an attorney all the better.

Trust me looking over your shoulder all the time is no way to live.

Hell take his punishment. It will hurt but your hurting him worse by not showing him how to live.

The End.

Mutley · Post by **Mutley** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:30 pm

oscar;1163288 wrote: Don't butt out Nomie..... Life would be dull wothout you

I do value your input.

OK FG's....this is where the story just gets worse and worse.

In 3 weeks time..... the 15 yr old in question is about to be a father!!!!!!!!

I have put a thread on this a few months back as we were all horrified naturally.

Maybe fatherhood will make him change? I can only hope so............

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:32 pm

Chezzie;1163301 wrote: Doh! I thought the car boot or a small store at the market was punishment for your nephew for robbing the lorry, not to sell on the goods... Definitely not a good idea... DOH CHEZZERS.....

No, it's why i felt so bad in the beginning. I thought sis would think i thought it funny and was being flippent.

Well, I have made my mind up here. I am going to tell his father when they get home from Great Ormond Street. I'm in no doubt his dad will call the police on him. Then, Mr O and i have agreed to get him away from his estate for a few weeks and have him here.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:36 pm

Mutley;1163304 wrote: Maybe fatherhood will make him change? I can only hope so............ When he first found he was going to be a father, he did change completely. He even got himself a little job weekends in the evening flipping burgers. He spent all the money on baby clothes. He carried around the pregnancy stick she first used in his coat for sentimental reasons along with a scan pic of the baby. We were all rejoicing that this baby could be the one thing that brought him to his senses. He hasn't been arrested for some months and we really thought we'd got some-where. Now, he goes and does this. I just don't get it

Mutley · Post by **Mutley** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:39 pm

oscar;1163308 wrote: When he first found he was going to be a father, he did change completely. He even got himself a little job weekends in the evening flipping burgers. He spent all the money on baby clothes. He carried around the pregnancy stick she first used in his coat for sentimental reasons along with a scan pic of the baby. We were all rejoicing that this baby could be the one thing that brought him to his senses. He hasn't been arrested for some months and we really thought we'd got some-where. Now, he goes and does this. I just don't get it

Did he actually rob the lorry or is he just stashing the goods for someone? Maybe it is not as bad as you might think?

Just grasping at straws here sorry.........

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:45 pm

Mutley;1163309 wrote: Did he actually rob the lorry or is he just stashing the goods for someone? Maybe it is not as bad as you might think?

Just grasping at straws here sorry......... No.... You can bet your life he instigated it. It wasn't that long ago he stole a car and got caught joy riding in the small hours at high speed. I more inclined to believe he's stashing the goods because he has absolutely no fear or concern of the authorities for reasons i won't go into. Let's just say he has a very good insight into how police work.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:18 pm

Nomad;1163303 wrote: {edited??}

In an apparently removed post, you asked "What is the right thing?".

I would say: Gather up as much stolen stuff as possible. Accompany him, with this stuff, to a police station - with the utmost consideration - and explain - hopefully, have *him* explain. Certainly consider talking to the police first to set the scene, to avoid unfortunate surprises when you arrive.

Why, etc.?

Doing nothing, or giving "pep talks" is patently *not* working.

To do nothing will not stop likely further and worse problems. This robust action itself may, of course, not help - but there is a better chance than just hoping the issue will somehow "go away".

Should the problem worsten significantly (cf S. Mercer's history) then other people as well as he are open to horrendous problems.

If he really *is* to become a father - and this should be verified - any sanctions applied will be lessened, and this reigning-in may be at its most effective at this time.

It seems overwhelmingly likely that he's on the National DNA database. This is very significant.

So. He'll be in trouble. It will be dealt with. Given all the circumstances, it's better now, given the huge potential for having much worse later. There's *always* somone "harder" - ultimately, the State.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:29 pm

Bill Sikes;1163326 wrote: In an apparently removed post, you asked "What is the right thing?".

I would say: Gather up as much stolen stuff as possible. Accompany him, with this stuff, to a police station - with the utmost consideration - and explain - hopefully, have *him* explain. Certainly consider talking to the police first to set the scene, to avoid unfortunate surprises when you arrive.

Why, etc.?

Doing nothing, or giving "pep talks" is patently *not* working.

To do nothing will not stop likely further and worse problems. This robust action itself may, of course, not help - but there is a better chance than just hoping the issue will somehow "go away".

Should the problem worsten significantly (cf S. Mercer's history) then other people as well as he are open to horrendous problems.

If he really *is* to become a father - and this should be verified - any sanctions applied will be lessened, and this reigning-in may be at its most effective at this time.

It seems overwhelmingly likely that he's on the National DNA database. This is very significant.

So. He'll be in trouble. It will be dealt with. Given all the circumstances, it's better now, given the huge potential for having much worse later. There's *always* somone "harder" - ultimately, the State. I can't dis-agree with anything you have said.

As i said in an earlier post, the last time he was in court before the magistrates, I really believed they'd have no option but youth offenders insitution. He was charged with taking a car and joy riding. He got 40 hours community service and a £55 fine which is peanuts for the offences involved. Of course he is going to laugh at a system that has seen him arrested 10 times in one year and the most he's got is a slap on the wrist. I've even tried explaining the politics of it to him but at 15, does he understand?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:31 pm

oscar;1163334 wrote: at 15, does he understand?

No. Hence.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:32 pm

Bill Sikes;1163335 wrote: No. Hence. This leads to my question...... how do we get him to understand what he see's as a corrupt authority? Another thing about him is that he can't remember what he learnt in school but my god, he knows his rights and the law. It's almost like he's gone to a special school of how to get round the system. He hasn't got it from his parents nor any of the rest of the family. He has 4 uncles and cousins that are police officers in another county.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:10 pm

oscar;1163404 wrote: how do we get him to understand what he see's as a corrupt authority?

I don't understand that. What authority, and how does he think it is corrupt?

oscar;1163404 wrote: Another thing about him is that he can't remember what he learnt in school but my god, he knows his rights and the law. It's almost like he's gone to a special school of how to get round the system.

It's come from somewhere - indicative. There is, of course, only limited scope for "getting 'round the system". Up against a real problem one day, the limitations will be seen. A difficulty is that "rights" are taken notice of only by the system - outside it, there are no rights.

oscar;1163404 wrote: He hasn't got it from his parents nor any of the rest of the family. He has 4 uncles and cousins that are police officers in another county.

Perhaps that's a bit of a challenge.

Anyway - the only way forward IMO is as indicated. You can try and understand all this 'till you're blue in the face, but that understanding, should it come, will not be very useful.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:16 pm

Bill Sikes;1163417 wrote: I don't understand that. What authority, and how does he think it is corrupt?

It's come from somewhere - indicative. There is, of course, only limited scope for "getting 'round the system". Up against a real problem one day, the limitations will be seen. A difficulty is that "rights" are taken notice of only by the system - outside it, there are no rights.

Perhaps that's a bit of a challenge.

Anyway - the only way forward IMO is as indicated. You can try and understand all this 'till you're blue in the face, but that understanding, should it come, will not be very useful. No, your right. I'm going to leave the thread now and just post the outcome. The authority he see's as corrupt is the police themselves and he makes no bones about telling them. I know that he has good reason that i can't go into here. Thanks for your words and interest Bill.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:29 pm

has his parents thought of putting him in re-hab?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:41 pm

Odie;1163437 wrote: has his parents thought of putting him in re-hab? Re-hab???..... Re-hab here is for alcohol or drug dependency. If you read a post a page back, you'd see that he calls kids who take drink or drugs 'Muppets' and even the kids he hangs out with won't touch the stuff. If it was down to either substance, it would be very easily solved. It's not.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:27 pm

oscar;1163404 wrote: This leads to my question...... how do we get him to understand what he see's as a corrupt authority? Another thing about him is that he can't remember what he learnt in school but my god, he knows his rights and the law. It's almost like he's gone to a special school of how to get round the system. He hasn't got it from his parents nor any of the rest of the family. He has 4 uncles and cousins that are police officers in another county.

It doesnt matter what he thinks about the integrity of the police. Physiologically speaking his brain isnt even fully developed. Thats why teens often have such poor judgement.

He is the one that is corrupted. He needs a hard lesson. Its his parents and families responsibility to give him that opportunity. Enabling him is damaging him.

Ive been through all of it. Im talking from experience. Of course he doesnt want to suffer consequences but what he wants is irrelevant. He handed his rights off all by himself. He could use some fear in his life right now.

The payoff hopefully comes a bit later.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:34 pm

Nomad;1163503 wrote: It doesnt matter what he thinks about the integrity of the police. Physiologically speaking his brain isnt even full developed. Thats why teens often have such poor judgement.

He is the one that is corrupted. He needs a hard lesson. Its his parents and families responsibility to give him that opportunity. Enabling him is damaging him.

Ive been through all of it. Im talking from experience. Of course he doesnt want to suffer consequences but what he wants is irrelevant. He handed his rights off all by himself. He could use some fear in his life right now.

The payoff hopefully comes a bit later.
Thanks Nomad. I have decided to tell his dad and i'm sure he will call the police. You hit the nail on the head about the fear...... he just has none and nothing seems to get to him. I will update you as to what his Dad does.

:(

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Thats the right thing. Thats love.

Best wishes.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:44 pm

Nomad;1163513 wrote: Thats the right thing. Thats love.

Best wishes. Thanks Nomad. :-6:-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:10 pm

Nomad;1163513 wrote: Thats the right thing. Thats love.

Best wishes. I've just had some news. He' been arrested and my sister has been down the police station all night with him. I'll know more in the morning.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:53 pm

Oh my hope thing work out somehow.

[QUOTE]I've just had some news. He' been arrested and my sister has been down the police station all night with him. I'll know more in the morning.[/QUOTE]

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:30 pm

oscar;1163532 wrote: I've just had some news. He' been arrested and my sister has been down the police station all night with him. I'll know more in the morning.

awwwwwwww I hope things work out.