Democracy at work

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:07 am

Osama Bin Laden, hero or villain?

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:10 am

Sama wrote: Osama Bin Laden, hero or villain?When i think of him the words mad, murderous wanker springs to mind.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:13 am

evil incarnate

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:15 am

Sama wrote: Osama Bin Laden, hero or villain?

A hero to some, a villian to others.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:16 am

Are you truly serious?

Thats like asking if Hitler was being a naughty boy for killing off so many Jews just because he didn't like them very much. Ditto people with any mental or physical problems. Bin Laden wants to destroy the free western world because it doesn't follow his close-minded beliefs. He's a megalomaniac. He's out of his gourd.

How do these nutters get to rule a society, whatever its size?

I hope you've Bin Thinkin before you ask your next dumbass question.

And I think you should rethink your name before you become associated with this boil on the arse of the universe.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:20 am

I second that emotion.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:23 am

Wolverine wrote: I second that emotion.
That emotion is growing post by post. :-5

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:25 am

Rapunzel wrote: Are you truly serious?

Thats like asking if Hitler was being a naughty boy for killing off so many Jews just because he didn't like them very much. Ditto people with any mental or physical problems. Bin Laden wants to destroy the free western world because it doesn't follow his close-minded beliefs. He's a megalomaniac. He's out of his gourd.

How do these nutters get to rule a society, whatever its size?

I hope you've Bin Thinkin before you ask your next dumbass question.

And I think you should rethink your name before you become associated with this boil on the arse of the universe.

In my view it was not really a dumbass question. Most Christians or Westerners would consider him evil. However, there are many more Muslims in this world than Christians, and they may view him as a real hero.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:27 am

Lon wrote: In my view it was not really a dumbass question. Most Christians or Westerners would consider him evil. However, there are many more Muslims in this world than Christians, and they may view him as a real hero.
So, because they consider him a hero, you say he is????

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:33 am

Clint wrote: So, because they consider him a hero, you say he is????

No, I didn't say that, did I?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:34 am

Lon wrote: No, I didn't say that, did I?
Nope...you actually didn't.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:34 am

Get the reaction you craved sama?

do you intend to post a response to the replies?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:44 am

He's a bombadier like Derryck. Here's his only other post.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... post133799

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:55 am

...other than trying bribe it with its guns, spare parts and money, it hasn't really invested its own time and energy on helping the needy and the poor, i mean what do the rich do for the poor, other than give them money, only Bin Laden has invested his time and energy in what he thinks is helping the poor.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:12 pm

Sama wrote: ...other than trying bribe it with its guns, spare parts and money, it hasn't really invested its own time and energy on helping the needy and the poor, i mean what do the rich do for the poor, other than give them money, only Bin Laden has invested his time and energy in what he thinks is helping the poor.
What "it"?

Do you call Bin Laden a hero?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:18 pm

Sama wrote: ...other than trying bribe it with its guns, spare parts and money, it hasn't really invested its own time and energy on helping the needy and the poor, i mean what do the rich do for the poor, other than give them money, only Bin Laden has invested his time and energy in what he thinks is helping the poor.

The poor are still poor....what has he achieved ?....only hatred, death and destruction !

As a 'leader' of men, he would have done better to invest his time and energy in peaceful pursuits.....

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:25 pm

truth, whoever follows it can not be wrong.

As the story unfolds, it is no longer Bin Laden who is the villain, he maybe so, but America's is also terrorising parts of the world for its own convictions and beleifs.

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:27 pm

[QUOTE=Accountable]What "it"?

The world, as in countries of the world, mainly the Third World.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:28 pm

Sama wrote: truth, whoever follows it can not be wrong.
That looks good but means nothing. You're starting to define yourself.

venus · Post by **venus** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:32 pm

truth, whoever follows it can not be wrong.

I have a problem with this comment...

Many years ago the christians thought the crusades were the only way to gaining the truth as in the religion they followed...

Hitler and the Nazis thought that the only way to achieve and create a truely wonderful race of men was to experiment and kill as many Jews as possible...

Peadophiles believe that they are not harming their victims, they belive they enjoy it. They believe this is the truth.....

My problem is, that no matter how many follow or believe, it does not always make it truth

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:35 pm

Sama wrote: truth, whoever follows it can not be wrong.

As the story unfolds, it is no longer Bin Laden who is the villain, he maybe so, but America's is also terrorising parts of the world for its own convictions and beleifs.
First, common courtesy dictates that you should let us know when you're going to do major edits to a post that changes it's meaning or context.

Second, I'll be happy to see some meat to go along with this aimless accusatory fluff.

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:44 pm

When rich people die the whole world get's to know about it, when the poor suffer and die in their multitude, no one pays any attention or through their charitable donations at the problem, i'm not sure that help comes through money, they needed help and you gave them capital. Who is accountable for the death of the poor?

Poverty,disease a lack of money, the climate are the causes, but no one is Accountable.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:50 pm

No, there is only one Accountable around here, you should spend some time reading his posts.

Osama: a very evil person, no matter what his personal faith is. To be the cause of thousands of people's deaths is wrong. If hell was really like Milton's portrayal, he would be sitting there next to the downcast ruler of it, in the bottomless pit.

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:15 pm

venus wrote: truth, whoever follows it can not be wrong.

I have a problem with this comment...

Many years ago the christians thought the crusades were the only way to gaining the truth as in the religion they followed...

Hitler and the Nazis thought that the only way to achieve and create a truely wonderful race of men was to experiment and kill as many Jews as possible...

Peadophiles believe that they are not harming their victims, they belive they enjoy it. They believe this is the truth.....

My problem is, that no matter how many follow or believe, it does not always make it truth

I said the religion of Islam is based on truth, whoever follows it can not be wrong. I said this because, someone in a different post was saying that Muslims themselves should try and root out terrorist cells, and said they were using Quranic verses to support terrorism. What I believe is the religion of Islam, note not 'my religion'- is based on truth. Just like Blair and Bush were convinced Iraq had WMD.

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:30 pm

Please, do you really believe that Bush thought there were WMD in Iraq? I think it was an excuse to go in.

Having said that, however, if it weren't for the insurgents in Iraq, the U.S. military would be rebuilding and on it's way home. The Iraqi people, when they braved bomb threats and snipers to go and vote, proved that they want a democratic government.

Sama · Post by **Sama** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:56 pm

Ironic, people think voters will be attacked when the go to vote, the people think Blair and the Labour Party might be on the hitlist during the Party conference, people think the queen of England might be terrorist a target, yet the terrorist have no preferences whose the victim just a message of **** off and defiance against the imperialist Western countries such as Britain and America.

And good if the terrorist did blew up the Labour Party Conference, i would've let em in to do the job on em, and how many people would be sad if the terrorist killed the Queen of England, not many, not me

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:11 pm

Sama wrote: Ironic, people think voters will be attacked when the go to vote, the people think Blair and the Labour Party might be on the hitlist during the Party conference, people think the queen of England might be terrorist a target, yet the terrorist have no preferences whose the victim just a message of **** off and defiance against the imperialist Western countries such as Britain and America.

And good if the terrorist did blew up the Labour Party Conference, i would've let em in to do the job on em, and how many people would be sad if the terrorist killed the Queen of England, not many, not me

Bye bye! we tolerate a lot here, but not people advocating murder and terrorism. find another forum. ciao!

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:17 pm

anastrophe wrote: Bye bye! we tolerate a lot here, but not people advocating murder and terrorism. find another forum. ciao!

Thanks...:-6

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:19 pm

Thanks Anastrophe.

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:27 pm

I'm sure Sama is not advocating murder or terrorism, cos he will surely be ban. PLEASE BAN ME TOO, what happen to civil liberty and the freedom of speech, MFs!

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:33 pm

You'd wish to be as handsome as me. Ur dream is my reality ;P. Someone said Jehovah, i looked and no one was there, in my mind i know that to mean i am close to the One

Attached files

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:48 pm

Legend wrote: You'd wish to be as handsome as me. Ur dream is my reality ;P. Someone said Jehovah, i looked and no one was there, in my mind i know that to mean i am close to the One

bye bye again, sama. this time permanently. And, i've reported you to the authorities. Free speech does indeed exist. Advocating murder, terrorism, insurrection, etc, have *never* been protected forms of speech.

venus · Post by **venus** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:29 pm

I completely believe in free speech...

I do not however no matter who they are, what country they are from or what religion they align themselves too, believe they have a right to undermine the beauty of a human life..

I will say this of any be they the BNP and their vile comments, a person who twists a religion and uses it to achieve their own gains and to use it as an excuse to hate. Some one who is ignorant and hates because its easier than to understand...

I do not hate anyone because of their colour,religion,sexual orientation etc..

however l may bloody well dislike you because you are the person and character you are..

do not go judging.......its not your job......

and as Forest Gump said "handsome is as handsome does momma always said"

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:27 pm

Yes-ims these muslims are such sweet humans..........

Deadly attacks on Shiites in Iraq

Sept. 30: Car bomb explodes in produce market in Shiite town of Hillah, killing at least 10, wounding at least 41.

Sept. 29: Three suicide car bombs explode simultaneously in mainly Shiite town of Balad, killing at least 102.

July 16: Suicide bomber detonates explosives at gas station near Shiite Muslim mosque in central city of Musayyib, blowing up fuel tanker, killing at least 54 people.

April 24: Insurgents stage coordinated bombings in Tikrit and Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad, killing 29 Iraqis.

March 10: Suicide bomber blows himself up at Shiite mosque during funeral in northern city of Mosul, killing at least 47.

Feb. 28: Suicide car bomber targets mostly Shiite police and national guard recruits in Hillah, killing 125 people in deadliest single strike since fall of Saddam Hussein.

Feb. 18: Suicide bombers attack two mosques, killing 28 people

Dec. 19, 2004: Car bombs tear through Najaf funeral procession and Karbala's main bus station, killing at least 60 people in Shiite holy cities.

* March 2, 2004: Coordinated blasts from suicide bombers, mortars and planted explosives strike Shiite shrines in Karbala and Baghdad, killing at least 181 people.

* Aug. 29, 2003: Car bomb explodes outside mosque in Najaf, killing at least 85 people, including Shiite leader Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:12 pm

Bez wrote: The poor are still poor....what has he achieved ?....only hatred, death and destruction !

As a 'leader' of men, he would have done better to invest his time and energy in peaceful pursuits.....

Indeed ...the poor ARE still poor...desperately poor in fact

And women are still second class citizens...only allowed to cook and clean and care for children...and NOT allowed to have an education or a job or even an opinion! Yet Bin Laden thinks this is ok! He encourages the poor fools who hero-worship him to prove their beliefs by becoming human bombs and destroying other people who don't share his views!

What I want to know is....if he is such a great leader.....why doesn't he lead by example???

Next time he hands one of his sheep a strap-on bomb...hand it back and say "You first!"

Well done Anastrophe for banning sama/legend! Although why can I still see legend reading this thread?

Still...as he's reading it...here's a joke for him:

Liverpudlian Police today arrested 3 of the 4 middle-eastern terrorists they've been hunting for - they've found:

Bin Thievin, Bin Muggin & Bin Claimin

They're still looking for Bin Workin

:wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:16 pm

Gee, Anastrophe, I had such high hopes for him, too. ... NOT!

Everybody, remember this thread. In the fairly near future, someone will get angry about someone else being banned. Refer them here to show it's never done lightly.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:22 pm

i take no pleasure in banning people, except for spammers, the banning of whom i relish.

i always second guess myself later. sometimes my gut instinct was incorrect. sometimes there's no question at all.

suggesting that he'd have lended a hand if terrorists blew up the labour party conference is enough for me. some things cannot, and should not be taken lightly. I hope he learns something from the experience when MI5 question him, if only that he was talking about real people being harmed, not abstractions.

venus · Post by **venus** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:57 am

It upsets me that people assume all Muslims are the same as the ones no one would like to know.

I know many and all are disgusted by the killings and murders commited in their religions name.

Not one of the muslims l know believes that twisted version of the religion.

I also know numerous women who work are well respected, have good educations etc. Let us not forget that in many instances it is the culture and not the religion that dictates the treatment of these women.

The Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad 's teachings are the only religious books that refer to women as standing alongside men, also referring to them as friends and partners of men..

Prophet Muhammad forbabe violence against women, he also preached against all forms of abuse of power.

The teachings and the Qur'an when it is studied is actually very pro woman.

I have not read the entire thing, but some and spoken and debated with various peoples..

One of these discussions l had included being informed that if a woman chooses to work outside the home her husband has no right to anything she earns, she is to use her wages as she wishes. It is his role to support the family financially..

Many muslim women are encouraged by their families to gain knowledge for Muhammad sai that men and women are obligated to seek knowledge. In fact his own wife was very knowledgable in several subjects including, medicine and Islamic Law.

Now lm not saying there arent bad people out there who are Muslim, but that can be said about all religions and all cultures. I hope we all can get over blaming the many for the bad deeds of a few. And when you look into numbers they are a few.

Are all Germans, Japenese, whites etc bad or racist....... NO.....

so please people do not paint everyone with the same brush as my gran would say...

Once again this is just my opinion, but please go out there do some research and ask, better to look a fool for a minute than to be a fool for the rest of your life.. thats not aimed at anyone by the way:-3

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:18 am

venus wrote:

so please people do not paint everyone with the same brush as my gran would say...

Once again this is just my opinion, but please go out there do some research and ask, better to look a fool for a minute than to be a fool for the rest of your life.. thats not aimed at anyone by the way:-3

I firmly believe that everyone at FG would agree with what you state above Venus....the guys and gals here are exceedingly tolerant and non-biased as the many and varied discussons here demonstrate. I have read about a lot of religions, I find the subject fascinating.

I abhor the extremists that use violence to propagate their beliefs whether it be religious or nationalist....talk, talk talk.....the only way to peacefully reconcile differences in the long run.....go to war only if there is no other solution. :-6

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:15 am

venus wrote:

The Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad 's teachings are the only religious books that refer to women as standing alongside men, also referring to them as friends and partners of men..
Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Could you please cite a verse from the Koran that is as direct about the equal value of men and women?

Gaius · Post by **Gaius** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:27 pm

"Do not argue with those of an earlier revelation unless in a most kindly manner"

A lot of extreemist muslims conveniantly forget about this one.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:22 pm

:yh_clap

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:13 pm

He is only a rich, murdering, power-hungry, Islam fanatic.

I'd hate to be one of his wives. I heard that if his wives "refuse" him sex, that he has them tortured by having bamboo pushed under their fingernails. Just another reason to hate Muslims. But these women cannot seem to see how bad they have it and think that all us Americans are crazy.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:34 pm

Saffron wrote: Just another reason to hate Muslims. But these women cannot seem to see how bad they have it and think that all us Americans are crazy.

Wait. In one breath you say another reason to hate ALL MUSLIMS, then you go on to complain that they think ALL AMERICANS are crazy. Am I not reading this right? It sounds like an idiotic thing to say. Do you hate black people as well?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:29 pm

DesignerGal wrote: Wait. In one breath you say another reason to hate ALL MUSLIMS, then you go on to complain that they think ALL AMERICANS are crazy. Am I not reading this right? It sounds like an idiotic thing to say. Do you hate black people as well?Go back to her early posts, DG. It's a pretty interesting read on bigotry.

samanthauk23 · Post by **samanthauk23** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:57 am

Sama wrote: Osama Bin Laden, hero or villain?

Wait till one of your friends/family gets ripped apart by the blast from one of his terrorists explosives and then decide for yourself! Pumper!!!!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:11 pm

I think Sama was just empathizing with that of Islam, and just asked a question to start a debate on how Muslims may portray Bin Laden as a hero while westerners wouldn't...

Doesn't necessarily mean Sama agrees that he is a hero...

If not, then it was a dumb question, but I think asking for an elaboration is in order before jumping all over people.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:10 am

'Democracy at work' and 'Osama Bin Laden', I don't find any connection except that he is a theat to all democracies at work in this world.