A Long Story About Racism Hatred

[Lon]

In the late 50's I met a girl from the the South that I would marry shortly and bring back to California. Her family and all her relatives were foaming at the mouth racists of the worst kind. They delighted in telling me stories about physical acts, including murder that they were involved in against those damn n-----s. My bride to be had no problem with racial or ethnic differences and really couldn't understand her own family's attitudes regarding race. I had gone to school in California and had many friends of different racial and ethnic backrounds. Her relatives delighted in referring to me as the YANKEE, despite my being from California Needless to say, I was happy to take my bride and leave that family of racists behind.

In the early 60's, (pre civil rights) her nephew was arrested for blowing up and machine gunning a black owned radio station. The government was involved iin the case and to make a long story short, he beat the rap due to ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZURE. My wife and I made many visits back to see her family during the 60's, 70's and 80's and noticed a distinct lack of conversation re: what used to be thier favorite source of discussion, race.

In 1987, the nephew that was involved in the radio station atrocity, is now an executive with a big company based in the South. He no longer was using the N word. I was trying to decide if he just found in socially inconvenient to be a racist, or if in fact he had a major change in his thinking. So I asked him. He confessed to me that he was wrong to have done the things he did and that this was just the way he grew up. He said he worked in a racially mixed atmosphere and came to know and understand for the first time that there really wasn't any differences. I don't delude my self by thinking that all old time racists have had a change of heart, but I do think some of them have, and that is certailny a step in the right direction.

[Tan]

Interesting story Lon. I think it's silly that racism still exsits today. You would think that that society would mature at a quicker pace. I love now, that our children have the benifit of socializing with other children of all different races in schools, etc. in our countries.

[Bothwell]

Perfect illustration that most prejudices are based on ignorance.

[Accountable]

Bothwell wrote: Perfect illustration that most prejudices are based on ignorance.
Make that all prejudices (thus the pre )

I, too, was raised in the deep rural south. I had a friend that had trained his dog to "sic'em" (I don't know a better word) when he said "the N word."

I was far more fortunate than most, in that we had a black family who lived behind us, through a thicket of woods. Jearline babysitted us and was my second mother. My mother always made sure I knew that all colors of people were the same no matter what the outside world may say.

Our schools integrated when I entered the fourth grade. I never fully understood the vitriolic hatred most of my contemporaries had for black people. However, as I grew up, I found that I did have some traces of bigotry despite my upbringing. Things like an instinctive suspicion of black people I didn't know, etc. I felt ashamed at my own knee-jerk reactions and set out to erase them.

Very long story short, over time I learned to erase or supress any bigoted tendencies and can't let bigotry in others go unchallenged (unless I think it might escalate into physical violence, like from a drunk).

[BabyRider]

I've been staying away from this thread, because I'm quite sure what I have to say will be extremely unpopular, and I'm sure I'll get some strong reaction. What the heck, I gotta do it.

I grew up in and around Detroit. Inner city, near-by 'burbs, etc. I have been around black folks my whole life and here is what I've seen: Gang-bangers, thieves, high school drop-outs, welfare recipients, jobless, beggars, violent offenders of all types of crimes.

Here's my theory: The black community, that I have been exposed to, is the worst example of these people. I have no illusions that all the activity I stated above is restricted solely to blacks. I know that people of all races can be included. However, when you see, every day for your whole life, the majority of them are black, you tend to formulate an opinion.

I see the most-wanted lists in our police stations, (in LOTS of cities) and they are all black. I see the statistics for high school drop-out rates, mostly black. I see the numbers of people on welfare, 90% black. The gangs in my area are made up of, you guessed it, blacks. The drug dealers? Black. Yeah, I have a negative attitude about the black people in my community.

Another theory: The black community, that I know, has been crying out for equality and reparations from slavery. Equality? They do everything in their power to separate themselves from other races in every aspect of their lives. From their dress, to their manner of talk, to their music, all under the guise of "expressing their heritage." I would wager a years worth of paychecks that not one single true African walked around listening to violent rap music or wore their pants around their knees or spoke in (my absolute favorite term ever) "ebonics." I bet Africans take pride in their homes. I bet Africans take pride in themselves.

And reparations? No one alive today is a slave, or owned a slave. Neither did that occur in the generation before this one or the one before that, or the one before that. Slavery has been abolished, (thank God) and no one alive today is responsible for it. To expect a hand-out or a free ride because a family member 250 years ago was a slave, makes that "N" word fit quite aptly. These are the kinds of blacks I have grown up with. Perhaps if I had grown up somewhere else, my opinion would be different.

I can see you all now...thinking "Wow, BR is a racist." My opinion of the black community is not popular with you and that's fine. Keep in mind, though, that when I think of the "N" word, it can apply to people of every color. I know white ni**ers. I know mexican ni**ers, I know Latin ones, I know Asian ones, and I know black ones. I also know people of every race who are educated, work hard, respect themselves and other people. It just so happens that the majority, the LARGE majority of black people that I know, do not fit that category.

[BabyRider]

You are wrong here. There is open slavery in a select few countries in Africa and child slavery in Asia.
OK, but I was referring to the US only. I should have said that. Thanks for the correction. And for your other comments.

[Lon]

BabyRider wrote: I've been staying away from this thread, because I'm quite sure what I have to say will be extremely unpopular, and I'm sure I'll get some strong reaction. What the heck, I gotta do it.

I grew up in and around Detroit. Inner city, near-by 'burbs, etc. I have been around black folks my whole life and here is what I've seen: Gang-bangers, thieves, high school drop-outs, welfare recipients, jobless, beggars, violent offenders of all types of crimes.

Here's my theory: The black community, that I have been exposed to, is the worst example of these people. I have no illusions that all the activity I stated above is restricted solely to blacks. I know that people of all races can be included. However, when you see, every day for your whole life, the majority of them are black, you tend to formulate an opinion.

I see the most-wanted lists in our police stations, (in LOTS of cities) and they are all black. I see the statistics for high school drop-out rates, mostly black. I see the numbers of people on welfare, 90% black. The gangs in my area are made up of, you guessed it, blacks. The drug dealers? Black. Yeah, I have a negative attitude about the black people in my community.

Another theory: The black community, that I know, has been crying out for equality and reparations from slavery. Equality? They do everything in their power to separate themselves from other races in every aspect of their lives. From their dress, to their manner of talk, to their music, all under the guise of "expressing their heritage." I would wager a years worth of paychecks that not one single true African walked around listening to violent rap music or wore their pants around their knees or spoke in (my absolute favorite term ever) "ebonics." I bet Africans take pride in their homes. I bet Africans take pride in themselves.

And reparations? No one alive today is a slave, or owned a slave. Neither did that occur in the generation before this one or the one before that, or the one before that. Slavery has been abolished, (thank God) and no one alive today is responsible for it. To expect a hand-out or a free ride because a family member 250 years ago was a slave, makes that "N" word fit quite aptly. These are the kinds of blacks I have grown up with. Perhaps if I had grown up somewhere else, my opinion would be different.

I can see you all now...thinking "Wow, BR is a racist." My opinion of the black community is not popular with you and that's fine. Keep in mind, though, that when I think of the "N" word, it can apply to people of every color. I know white ni**ers. I know mexican ni**ers, I know Latin ones, I know Asian ones, and I know black ones. I also know people of every race who are educated, work hard, respect themselves and other people. It just so happens that the majority, the LARGE majority of black people that I know, do not fit that category.


Since I was the originator of this post, my response to your post may surprise you. First, I agree with most all you have said about some of the black community. I would call you prejudiced, not racist and there is a big difference. The term racist gets tossed about too carelessly I believe. Most blacks could probably care less about what white people think about them, just give them the same rights and consideration that would be given to any white person in any given situation, buying a home, employment etc. Not more rights, just the same rights. I doubt if you would lynch, beat or stab, burn thier home down or any other violent act against blacks, just for the hell of it. My original post dealt with that kind of racisism.

[chonsigirl]

Racism and hatred remain as long as it passed down from generation to generation. I teach students of all ethnic groups from the inner city, and have never had a problem with any of them about racial issues. (and I am not originally from this area, evident in speech and mannerisms) But they accept me for what I am, as I do them. Sometimes we need to learn from the younger ones about a few things.

[BabyRider]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't got more attention. :yh_think

I think racism and hatred will remain not because it's been passed down from generation to generation, but because as TW said, it's a self-imposed "culture" that separates itself from EVERY one else. Think about it: A black history month, a black Miss America, the NAACP, the United Negro college fund, Black Entertainment TV, all geared towards segregating the black people from the white, and this time, the blacks did it themselves! What do you suppose would happen if I tried to incorporate a college fund that blacks were excluded from? Or held a beauty pageant that no black women could enter? Or made a film titled "Black Broads"?? The ACLU would have my head on a plate! It's ok for blacks, but not for ANY one else. THAT'S racism. And it's being practiced by the very people claiming to be "oppressed" by it.

[Accountable]

BabyRider wrote: I'm surprised this thread hasn't got more attention. :yh_think

I think racism and hatred will remain not because it's been passed down from generation to generation, but because as TW said, it's a self-imposed "culture" that separates itself from EVERY one else. Think about it: A black history month, a black Miss America, the NAACP, the United Negro college fund, Black Entertainment TV, all geared towards segregating the black people from the white, and this time, the blacks did it themselves! What do you suppose would happen if I tried to incorporate a college fund that blacks were excluded from? Or held a beauty pageant that no black women could enter? Or made a film titled "Black Broads"?? The ACLU would have my head on a plate! It's ok for blacks, but not for ANY one else. THAT'S racism. And it's being practiced by the very people claiming to be "oppressed" by it.


Don't blame it all on the blacks. The worst bigotry I can think of is pity. The politicians & activists who cry out that blacks are not good/smart/clever enough to pull themselves (individuals, not the group) out of poverty are the most guilty. they do the same with hispanics (another false group made for convenience) with the bilingual classes et al. They are the same people who push for these color-coded programs.

Say something enough and people will begin to believe it. Likewise, hear something enough, even about yourself, and you will begin to believe it. I am sick and tired of my fellow humans color-coding their own people! The whole reason most of these bad people are black is because for generations most people have expected bad behavior of black people.

It will take generations to change the thought patterns of our society, but by God I'm doing my part!

[BabyRider]

Accountable wrote: Don't blame it all on the blacks.Uhh...blame WHAT on the blacks? I'm not placing blame on anyone for anything.

Accountable wrote: The worst bigotry I can think of is pity. The politicians & activists who cry out that blacks are not good/smart/clever enough to pull themselves (individuals, not the group) out of poverty are the most guilty.I'd have to say the ones who use that assumption as a crutch to prevent themselves from succeeding are the most guilty.

Accountable wrote: (another false group made for convenience)What do you mean by false group?



Accountable wrote: Say something enough and people will begin to believe it. Likewise, hear something enough, even about yourself, and you will begin to believe it. I am sick and tired of my fellow humans color-coding their own people! The whole reason most of these bad people are black is because for generations most people have expected bad behavior of black people.I don't expect bad behavior from anyone, and I'm also not talking ONLY about criminal activity. I'm talking about drop-outs, welfare "junkies", the lazy, the total lack of respect for themselves, other people, their own neighborhoods, etc.

Perhaps I'm just not following your train of thought, Accountable. Maybe you could clarify for me a bit? Thanks.

[A Karenina]

White is not a culture. It's just a color.



There are tons of Irish dance groups, Scandinavian festivals, Scottish heritage bagpipe clubs, Italian cooking classes, etc etc. Everyone keeps a little piece of their original culture - and no big deal if they do. To be angry with any group because they want to retain a piece of who they are doesn't make any sense to me.



However, the thread was about racism, and hate crimes, really. Like some others here, I came from the deep south as well. I've seen the difference between active violent hatred, and prejudice. I've also seen the difference between how the south and the north generally behaves. Interesting stuff.

[spot]

My, this thread's got some exciting themes. Life may be an education, but Forum Garden's the university. I can remember the days Lon describes, and prejudice was quite widespread in England then. We have fairly rigid class distinctions here, and I've seen few signs of them weakening. Prejudice was a middle-class attitude when I was growing up. It's sunk, since. You have to be pretty low-born to be prejudiced these days. I know one racially prejudiced person now, he's old and he's poor and he's never moved from the home he was born in.

There was a time when I thought that racial prejudice was normal thinking, it was pervasive, it was the underlying assumption of my school and its surroundings. It was entirely based on a lack of personal exposure and an assumption about Britain's place in the world. If you spoke with an Englishman who had dealt with Johnny Foreigner, in all likelihood he'd served in North Africa and met lazars in the ports, or fez-wearing sellers of oriental delights - wogs, he'd have called them - in Alexandria's back street markets. They even had songs about it in the hit parade. You can buy most any sort of thing, thin bulls, fat cows, little bits of string, you can purchase anything you wish, a clock, a dish or something for your Auntie Nellie Harem, scarem, what d'ya think of that, bare knees, striptease, dancing on the mat, Umpa! Umpa! There's enough of that in the old bazaar in Cairo.

I have a few thoughts, if you like, mainly about how different BabyRider's world is to here. I've lived in Bristol for a while now, I know it quite well, I was born here. It has 42 square miles and a third of a million inhabitants. If I put the percentage of the population that are from ethnic minorities in brackets, as an abbreviation, then Bristol(8%) has an ever so slight bit of segregation.

I live in two parts of the center of town, in Clifton(8%) which is well-to-do and green, and in Saint Pauls(24%) which is poor by comparison and has three small scraps of parkland. There's one bit of Bristol posher than Clifton, and that's Stoke Bishop(7%).

Now, if you click on those four links, you'll say hmm, there's Bristol, and the wealthy parts have about the average ethnic mix, and the poor part has about three times the mix, where's the exclusive whites only part of town? Well, it exists, round the periphery(2%), just as poor as Saint Pauls but a darned sight less fun to live in. The periphery is a cultural wasteland, and some bits are sufficiently scary that people try not to move there. If England has ghettos, they're white and bleak and a long way out from the center.

Right, that's Bristol painted. Where are the gangs that BabyRider described? Right where you'd expect them, where the mix is highest. Saint Pauls has perhaps eight or ten zones, where the drug-based economic dependence of maybe thirty to fifty people is centered on a residential block. The low-level street prostitution avoids those centers as best it can. There has been, oh, ten or so gun deaths in Bristol over the last five years, and most of those have been in Saint Pauls. One of those was shot by the police. So, here and there in Saint Pauls you'll see half a dozen mean-looking low-level gang members on guard outside of doorways. There's a couple of pubs that nobody walks into if they're not recognised. That's Bristol's visible crime scene, in a nutshell.

It's all so low-key, small-scale stuff compared with Detroit, that's the way I see it. I regularly walk past these places, though I admit I don't nod to the gatekeepers. Beyond fifty feet of them, there's not a trace of menace in the city at all. Even close up, they don't do anything but watch and talk to themselves. Have we people in Bristol listening to violent rap music or wearing their pants around their knees? Sure we have, except rap in clubs, as opposed to rap on recordings, tends to be a lot less violent than it's painted. I'm practicing rap, I might get good at it soon too. I'm determined to rap in my local clubs, nothing's going to stop me. I hate the feel of standing in baggy jeans though. The best night out I had recently was a visiting Jamaican reggae man with rap overtones and he was infectiously fun, the entire audience loved him.

Nigger is just a word people used when they wanted to stick someone into a tainted category they couldn't get out of. It was a power mantra. Did Lenny Bruce never exist? Has nobody learned anything about language in the last fifty years? It's OK to say it now, folks, honestly. It says more about you than a thousand pictures, and it has no power left to hurt anyone else.

Slavery's an active issue in Bristol. We have exhibitions about it, the local newspaper debates heritage issues, we have class visits, it's a school discussion topic. We're so laid back about slavery that the main cafe opposite the cathedral is named after a slaver captain, and the statue facing the harbor is of one of the richest slave merchants Bristol ever produced. Bristol would be unrecognisable, and its people and architecture a lot less wealthy, if our Venturers hadn't operated the slave trade for so many years. If slavery isn't the root cause of a lot of tensions in US society today, I'd be interested to hear why. I think it's easily traced from then to now. I think it's by no means a dead issue.

You may have groups in the US that you can't join because you're white. I can think of nothing equivalent here. We're far less confrontational, as a society, I think that explains a vast amount of the different feel between here and there. I've even noticed that on Forum Garden itself.

[Adam Zapple]

Another southerner weighing in!

As a child in the '60s and '70s, I have some memories of the civil rights movement. Unlike lon, I never knew anyone personally active in the KKK or similar groups, and certainly no one that was violent, but the white community I lived in was at least sympathetic to their goals. Similar to what you hear from apologists of terrorism today, it's the "I may not agree with their methods, but I understand the reason they do it" mentality.

As a child, I don't remember haven't any hateful feelings towards blacks though I did harbor prejudices and preconceived notions. The "N-word" was common usage and to me it was just a term- what you called a certain segment of the population. I'm not suggesting that I was ignorant to its usage as a slur, just that to me it was a just a word. Simple maturity took care of my need to use that word.

My entire life has been spent in racially diverse surroundings. Whites are a statistical minority in my city. I have seen the best and the worst of black behavior. Overwhelmingly blacks are no different than whites and I find it a bit strange and ridiculous to even have to make that statement. My workplace is split about 50/50 black/white. Of the eight supervisory positions in my division, six are black females. We discuss all sorts of issue and we all share the same concerns, set the same standards for our children, find the same situations funny, .....truly the only difference is skin color.

But there is a subculture in the black community that lends itself to criminality. The vast majority of blacks, who are law-abiding, have little tolerance for this subset of gangsters and thugs but no one listens to their voice. The media reports the crimes, most of which are black on black, and only quotes those race-baiting activists who use racial situations to make a name and fortune for themselves. You may know Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton by name but each community is full of these self-promoters who reap huge financial windfalls while "supposedly" looking out for the interests of the black community.

A recent anecdote from my town. There are several high crime areas, all in predominately black neighborhoods, that keep the police busy but in particular is one business intersection where each weekend thousands and thousands of black teens would gather. It was impossible for customers to reach businesses, for emergency vehicles to get through the log-jammed traffic, for residents to go to and from their homes. Fights broke out regularly. The blacks who lived in that community pleaded for the city to do something about the situation. The kids complained that they had nothing else to do, that the city ignored the needs of black teens by not providing recreational activities. So the city decided to open up the fairground about two blocks away and throw these kids a party each Sunday complete with food and DJ's. It was to be called "Super Safe Sundays" and allowed the kids to gather and socialize without disrupting business and the community and causing hazardous traffic. The rest of the black community was horrified at this suggestion. They begged the city to get the thugs off the street rather than relocate them down a block. They were pleading for their safety and the reputation of their community. But the city decided to listen to the self-proclaimed "black leaders" and went ahead with the project. The result of the very first "Super Safe Sunday" was a shootout that left two people dead and seven wounded.

So I understand where BR comes from. Unfortunately the vast majority of law-abiding blacks have been lost in the racial struggle -ignored by PC whites who marginalize the criminality in the community and pushed aside by black leaders who make their name and reputation on the backs of victims of black crimes. Guess how many black leaders spoke out denouncing the Super Safe Sunday shootout? Not one. It took unknown black citizens of that community calling their councilmen begging them to scrap the project and put more police on the streets to arrest these thugs rather than feed them. But when a white cop shot a black kid with a rap sheet a mile long after he pointed a silver object at police, every right reverend in town was protesting and even Al Sharpton managed to get in on the act.

I think I have rambled off subject BR's views are not based on prejudice or racism but on experience. I have seen many characteristics that seem to be confined mostly to those in the black community that I find repulsive. That's experience, not prejudice or racism. I'm aware enough to know that not all blacks are that way. In fact, my black co-workers are equally appalled by these cultural anomalies and even have names for them. So I don't think it is fair to call someone prejudiced or racist if they make negative remarks about some aspects of black culture. I find, and I'm sure you do to, many aspects of the redneck subset of white culture unsavory (and funny at times), or the "high-society" subset of white culture idiotic. That isn't racism or prejudice, it is simply opinion based on personal experience.

I'm not sure if I've even made a point :wah: so I'll just shut up now. I think I've come full circle.

[devist8me]

I guess I just don't have the experiences that others have regarding blacks.



I didn't even meet a black person in my little part of the world till my teens. Up until that time, I'd been filled with all kinds of stories by my family about how "bad" they were and "always stay away from them". My grandfather used to sit at his CB radio in the dining room and have raging wars with truck drivers that 'he said' were obviously black (maybe because of things they said or accents). Anyway, I was scared to death when I went to a week long college basketball camp one summer and 2 black gals were there.



Probably the rebel in me (little defiant back then) but I decided to get to know these two gals after they introduced themselves, against my parents wishes. They turned out to be 2 of the nicest and funnest people there. Both had dreams of college ball someday and just didn't come off as being any different than I.



Then I had my Michael Jackson crush (pre-freak era) and I remember my parents telling each other I was just going though a phase. LOL. But still remember my dad saying, "if you ever bring home a black man, I don't know who I'll kill first".



So, younger 20's arrived and I dated a black man for a short time, and hung out with his crowd. He was working some meaningless job to pay his way through college. He didn't take advantage of the grants and things available (or if he did, it wasn't enough). All the people in his crowd just seemed like normal people to me, no different than other groups I hung with. And, they didn't treat me any different either. (I never took him home to meet my parents either, just in case)



Now, I have a lot more interaction with blacks than I did back then. I work around black people and have some I consider good friends. I just don't have the thoughts that some of you here do. Not that thats a bad thing....I just don't have the experiences that you do....maybe.

[capt_buzzard]

With the aftermath of the London Bombings yesterday. The British National Front are gearing up for a KKK style backlash against all non English whites,including British muslims and I might add Southern Irish people.

[Adam Zapple]

I dare say a backlash, not of the vigilante variety though, against some British muslims is warranted and long overdue. Unfortunately for those killed it comes too late.

[spot]

Adam Zapple wrote: I dare say a backlash, not of the vigilante variety though, against some British muslims is warranted and long overdue. Unfortunately for those killed it comes too late.And, by God, some of those Irish while we're at it. We're congenitally disposed to thrashing the Micks. If we're going to lynch us a few Islamicist scholars, I'm sure the good Lord would want us to include the odd priest or three at the same time.

I'm told there's ten bonus points if they're Jesuit, and bonanza 100 point payout if you can demonstrate that they're female.

[Adam Zapple]

spot wrote: And, by God, some of those Irish while we're at it. We're congenitally disposed to thrashing the Micks. If we're going to lynch us a few Islamicist scholars, I'm sure the good Lord would want us to include the odd priest or three at the same time.

I'm told there's ten bonus points if they're Jesuit, and bonanza 100 point payout if you can demonstrate that they're female.


Really? You support a backlash against the Irish? What in God's name for? Did they have something to do with yesterday? And priests too? You are a vengeful soul. Islamic "scholars" huh? I was referring to these idiots and these scholars of yours:

'It is easy for you to forget our history. Our history did not begin at 11 September. The USA ploughs money into Israel. In 1998 Sudan was bombed. Atrocities have been committed against Muslims in Chechnya and Afghanistan. Do you have a minute's silence for them? No. You remember only non-Muslims.' The spokesman's voice is distorted by the cheap amplification system. The press do not know what to make of these outspoken, confident fanatics. They are articulate and intelligent. Should they be treated as spokesmen for al-Qaida or as the Islamic equivalent of Monty Python's People's Front of Judea?

We are here for the official opening of a conference - not a celebration, they are keen to stress - to commemorate the glorious memory of the 19 men who killed themselves in flying four planes into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and the ground.

'The world is now split into two camps. It has become clear that there can never be peace with the USA.'

'The Jews are a bunch of murderers and criminals.'

The hijackers were 'brave men. They were mujahideen. You might call them cowards but none of you would be willing to sacrifice your lives.'

'Jihad is spreading like wildfire. Constantinople has fallen, Rome is still to come.'

Amid the talk of the Great Satan and the Little Satan it emerges that the plan is to hold conferences soon afterwards in Leicester, Manchester and Birmingham.

Link

These are the people you seem so intent on defending.

But we're getting off-topic.

[Accountable]

Sorry, BabyRider, for the friendly fire. :yh_sad I guess I didn’t realize how sensitive this button is for me still. I’m blessed/cursed with empathy and a tendency to over-analyze; so this is where I am coming from.

The “self-imposed culture” and resulting isolation, as I see it, is encouraged and perpetuated by the same parties that claim to champion the black community. Poor, predominately inner-city, predominately black, families have been given so much by misguided government programs there is no reason to work. Indeed, if you do the math it is more profitable to stay on the dole than to get an entry-level job. Add to this the unconscious bigotry reflected in the view that these people are unable to succeed on their own and you get a lethal cocktail of hopelessness.

Looking at it from that point of view, I can understand the pointlessness of following ethical rules. What’s the point? Trying to succeed by the rules results in less money in my pocket. Besides, I’m not going to succeed anyway. The drug dealers and gang bangers I see every day are my only examples success. Everything else is pipe dream.

I get frustrated because I can’t do much about it. I’m the wrong color. I don’t live in their neighborhood. The only people that could make a difference won’t live there to be a role model. Why should they? It’s too dangerous! The people that do go there to help go there to give things (money, food, etc) and complain about how hopeless the situation is. They don’t understand the bigotry they are displaying. :-5

I’m tying myself in knots here. I’m not sure I’m even making sense. The point is, I believe the answer is not in dealing with the culture or the group at all, but with individuals. Planting seeds of hope in individuals to either spread that hope throughout the neighborhood or, more likely, prompt those individuals to look past immediate gratification and get out of the neighborhood.

[capt_buzzard]

We were hearing and watching news items as far back as 1959 from South Africa's policy on racial segregation ' Apartheid govenment. Wasn't the UK involved here. And in the deep South of the USA, where Martin L King jr was active in the 1950s and 1960s. Most of the KKK members were ancestors of old British colonialism. And the present day 'The British National Front, and the Orange Order.

[Accountable]

spot wrote: And, by God, some of those Irish while we're at it. We're congenitally disposed to thrashing the Micks. If we're going to lynch us a few Islamicist scholars, I'm sure the good Lord would want us to include the odd priest or three at the same time.

I'm told there's ten bonus points if they're Jesuit, and bonanza 100 point payout if you can demonstrate that they're female.


:yh_youkid :yh_giggle :yh_hugs


.

[gmc]

posted by capn buzzard

Most of the KKK members were ancestors of old British colonialism.




Sad to say the "klansmen" have their origins in the scottish ancestry of many in america.

Just to give this a scottish twist, I never actually saw a black man (as opposed to Asian) until my late teens or spoke to one till I went down to London to work where 85% of my staff were asian or caribbean origin. I was the exotic one no one had met a scot before and I talked really funny.

as a kid the issue was not racsim but sectarianism. when I was a lad there was a children's rhyme that used to get chanted, no offence intended to anybody but it went

I'd rather be a darkie than a tim

I'd rather be a darkie than a tim

etc, I'll spare you the verses but for those of you who are wondering a tim was a dreogatory term for a catholic. As a kid you hear these things and copy them and end up being prejudiced without even realising it's happened. For years I thought catholics weren't christian but some strange people who went to different schools.

PC may have gone too far but the detractors forget it has gone a long way to curb the thoughtless racism, sexism etc by making people think about what they say. If you think about what you say must also think about what they think.

[Lon]

While many members of the KKK had their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Ireland, as did most Americans in the 1860's, it had nothing at all to do with their belonging to the CLAN. The KKK had it's beginings post U.S. Civil War and was a harsh response to the new freedoms afforded blacks and was organised in the South of the U.S. The fact that KLAN was used and was similar to Scottish Clans, is merely co-incidental.

[gmc]

posted by lon

The fact that KLAN was used and was similar to Scottish Clans, is merely co-incidental.

I merely meant that is where the term came from. believe me the last thing I would want to do is claim any scottishness about the KKK.

[BabyRider]

TW2005 wrote:

If we have a BHM why not start a Jewish History Month??? Why not start a Spanish History Month???

How 'bout a Native American history month? :yh_eyebro



It's a damn frustrating topic, ain't it TW?