I have, I think, a way forward.
The Republic of Ireland and the UK are, until Halloween, both members of the same European Union and as such have no customs border or regulation disparity with each other.
The UK will stop being a member of the EU at the end of October.
It is a political necessity that there should continue to be no restriction of the movement of goods and services between the Republic of Ireland and the whole of the UK.
The UK never signed up to the Schengen agreement on movement. Currently there is no freedom of movement between the EU and UK, passport control applies and is enforced. Except across the border with the Republic of Ireland. A political agreement allows passport-free transit of anyone across that border. Anyone who can get to Dublin from within mainland EU can then proceed to Belfast without any form of documentation whatever. From Dublin into a UK airport you have, I believe, to show a passport. From Dublin into England by way of the Holyhead ferry there's no passport control, to the best of my knowledge.
So this back door already exists for people. It was done as a deal specific to that border. Nobody finds this odd.
I see no reason why the EU should not allow Dublin to agree an extension to this process and to apply a zero-tariff policy to all goods moving anywhere on the island of Ireland, and to fictitiously assume an equivalence of regulations. If it subsequently physically finds its way across into England or back the other way then that's also just an anomaly, like moving people. It's not going to affect tariffs on goods between the UK and Europe physically travelling by any other route.
I think this completely solves the backstop issue and makes any trade agreement between the UK and any other country immediately accessible.
The Good Friday agreement created a fiction, Brexit just needs to create another similar fiction.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
Ireland isn't in the schengen agreement either the soft border only works because both the uk and ireland are in the eu and it's noy just about the movement of people also bear in mind norther ireland voted to remain.
Goods entering the eu from outside have to be checked to ensure they meet eu standards - for instance once we start importing UShowmone treated beef beef the eu will want to make sure it doesn't get to the eu by the back door.. The eu will be imposing tariffs on uk goods as will the uk be imposing tariffs on eu goods to do all that checking will require a hard border unless some other arrangement can be made and the back stop was Theresa may's idea not the eu's it was parliament that refused to endorse the deal sending her in to rabbit in headlights mode.
We trade freely with europe because we meet all the eu standards post brexit the only way to ensure we still comply is by physical checks. Yes you can track containers electrinocally but how do you track that the contents are actually what they say they are?
This is only part of the problem most of our food is imported and on the shelves within a week of being picked, now it will have to clear custims and checked that all necessary tariffs have been paid. Goodbye cheap food and no we can't grow all our own.
Your bigger problem is when scotland becomes independent you need us far more than we need you.
Goods entering the eu from outside have to be checked to ensure they meet eu standards - for instance once we start importing UShowmone treated beef beef the eu will want to make sure it doesn't get to the eu by the back door.. The eu will be imposing tariffs on uk goods as will the uk be imposing tariffs on eu goods to do all that checking will require a hard border unless some other arrangement can be made and the back stop was Theresa may's idea not the eu's it was parliament that refused to endorse the deal sending her in to rabbit in headlights mode.
We trade freely with europe because we meet all the eu standards post brexit the only way to ensure we still comply is by physical checks. Yes you can track containers electrinocally but how do you track that the contents are actually what they say they are?
This is only part of the problem most of our food is imported and on the shelves within a week of being picked, now it will have to clear custims and checked that all necessary tariffs have been paid. Goodbye cheap food and no we can't grow all our own.
Your bigger problem is when scotland becomes independent you need us far more than we need you.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I don't see anything in either of those posts which contradicts a word in the other.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
"I see no reason why the EU should not allow Dublin to agree an extension to this process and to apply a zero-tariff policy to all goods moving anywhere on the island of Ireland, and to fictitiously assume an equivalence of regulations. If it subsequently physically finds its way across into England or back the other way then that's also just an anomaly, like moving people. It's not going to affect tariffs on goods between the UK and Europe physically travelling by any other route."
They did it is called the back stop.
They did it is called the back stop.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
gmc;1524067 wrote: They did it is called the back stop.
I think you missed the "fictitiously". The backdrop demands that the equivalence of regulations is factual. The regulations can only be factually equivalent if the UK remains in lockstep with the EU, adopting identical EU regulations at the same time as the EU. We're not talking about the EU adopting UK regulations, it's solely the other way around.
There are other approaches which would work but I think my proposal in the opening post is the most feasible. An alternative equally simple answer would be for the Republic to leave the EU on the same date as the UK leaves but that would perhaps raise complaints south of the border.
It is the actual demand by the EU that the UK must continue to implement EU regulations indefinitely after Brexit that is the underlying problem. That problem disappears if the UK rejects the backstop demand. At the moment the only way of rejecting it is to leave with no settlement, because the EU will not at the moment negotiate any alternative.
I think you missed the "fictitiously". The backdrop demands that the equivalence of regulations is factual. The regulations can only be factually equivalent if the UK remains in lockstep with the EU, adopting identical EU regulations at the same time as the EU. We're not talking about the EU adopting UK regulations, it's solely the other way around.
There are other approaches which would work but I think my proposal in the opening post is the most feasible. An alternative equally simple answer would be for the Republic to leave the EU on the same date as the UK leaves but that would perhaps raise complaints south of the border.
It is the actual demand by the EU that the UK must continue to implement EU regulations indefinitely after Brexit that is the underlying problem. That problem disappears if the UK rejects the backstop demand. At the moment the only way of rejecting it is to leave with no settlement, because the EU will not at the moment negotiate any alternative.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I didn't miss it I just think it nonsensical.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
gmc;1524075 wrote: I didn't miss it I just think it nonsensical.
In what way is this back door for goods and services any more nonsensical than letting anyone, regardless of origin, who has physically set foot in the Republic have a right of travel into all parts of the UK without producing any paperwork whatever? We've lived with that for twenty years.
In what way is this back door for goods and services any more nonsensical than letting anyone, regardless of origin, who has physically set foot in the Republic have a right of travel into all parts of the UK without producing any paperwork whatever? We've lived with that for twenty years.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
spot;1524076 wrote: In what way is this back door for goods and services any more nonsensical than letting anyone, regardless of origin, who has physically set foot in the Republic have a right of travel into all parts of the UK without producing any paperwork whatever? We've lived with that for twenty years.
Because anyone landing in an irish airport will have gone through the security checks at both the point of departure and arrival. Goods currently entering or leavinmg ireland have met all the necessary checks at the point of origin, meet all the necassary standards and will have the necessary documentation on them.French german british p[olish etc lorries crossing borderts carry reams of documentation and be be fully searched at any time. Not least to make sure there are no illegal imkmigranmts hidden inside.
Goods from outside the eu go through rigorous checks. The UK will not be part of the EU therefore no more seamless passage hence the need for a hard border. The hard border is in calais, and zeebrugge and all the other ports ireland just happens tro be on the same island as northern ireland. Brexiteers are just kidding themselves that there isn't a probem. Ireland is an independent country to expect them to give in to bullying from the UK is ridiculous and they have the full backing of the eu.
The UK is choosing to leave the eu that means all free trade deals we have through the EU will be null and void. As a European Union member, the UK is part of about 40 trade agreements which the union has with more than 70 countries. If the UK leaves the EU in a no-deal Brexit it will immediately lose these deals. The sheer stupidity of the brexiteers beggars belief
Because anyone landing in an irish airport will have gone through the security checks at both the point of departure and arrival. Goods currently entering or leavinmg ireland have met all the necessary checks at the point of origin, meet all the necassary standards and will have the necessary documentation on them.French german british p[olish etc lorries crossing borderts carry reams of documentation and be be fully searched at any time. Not least to make sure there are no illegal imkmigranmts hidden inside.
Goods from outside the eu go through rigorous checks. The UK will not be part of the EU therefore no more seamless passage hence the need for a hard border. The hard border is in calais, and zeebrugge and all the other ports ireland just happens tro be on the same island as northern ireland. Brexiteers are just kidding themselves that there isn't a probem. Ireland is an independent country to expect them to give in to bullying from the UK is ridiculous and they have the full backing of the eu.
The UK is choosing to leave the eu that means all free trade deals we have through the EU will be null and void. As a European Union member, the UK is part of about 40 trade agreements which the union has with more than 70 countries. If the UK leaves the EU in a no-deal Brexit it will immediately lose these deals. The sheer stupidity of the brexiteers beggars belief
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
gmc;1524093 wrote: If the UK leaves the EU in a no-deal Brexit it will immediately lose these deals. The sheer stupidity of the brexiteers beggars belief
There are several threads running about Brexit. The only reason I started this one was to see what alternative possibilities would avoid leaving with no agreement. I was looking for the underlying cause and a way round it.
The one thing the EU insists on is that there should be no barrier to trade across the island of Ireland. That's their line in the sand.
My opening post offers a British agreement to this absolute EU's demand at the same time as acceptance by the EU of the British position that no more EU regulations should be imposed on Britain after leaving.
What I proposed would, in fact, actually work. Nothing in my post suggested that Brexit is desirable.
People landing in an airport in the Republic of Ireland have not cleared British security. The list of people Britain would refuse entry to has nothing to do with the entry requirements of the Republic. Despite that, Britain tolerates anyone present on Irish soil having access to the UK mainland without a British identity check. The border is open to the uninspected movement of people. I suggest it should be open to the uninspected movement of goods too, and that the EU should grant fictional acceptance that the goods conform to EU regulations just as Britain grants the fictional acceptance that visitors crossing the border into Northern Ireland have permission to enter the UK.
There are several threads running about Brexit. The only reason I started this one was to see what alternative possibilities would avoid leaving with no agreement. I was looking for the underlying cause and a way round it.
The one thing the EU insists on is that there should be no barrier to trade across the island of Ireland. That's their line in the sand.
My opening post offers a British agreement to this absolute EU's demand at the same time as acceptance by the EU of the British position that no more EU regulations should be imposed on Britain after leaving.
What I proposed would, in fact, actually work. Nothing in my post suggested that Brexit is desirable.
People landing in an airport in the Republic of Ireland have not cleared British security. The list of people Britain would refuse entry to has nothing to do with the entry requirements of the Republic. Despite that, Britain tolerates anyone present on Irish soil having access to the UK mainland without a British identity check. The border is open to the uninspected movement of people. I suggest it should be open to the uninspected movement of goods too, and that the EU should grant fictional acceptance that the goods conform to EU regulations just as Britain grants the fictional acceptance that visitors crossing the border into Northern Ireland have permission to enter the UK.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
What brexiteers can't seem to grasp (and I kmow you are not one my apologies if I gave inadvertant offence) is that the eu are trying to implememt our decision to leave. The backstop was theresa mays idea not the eu's.
Peop[le entyering ireland have cleared security. It is no dofferent from you entering at a french post and then driving to germany. What will be different is the UK wants to stop the free movement of people from the eu entering the uk. It's not the irish that are causing the problem.
Peop[le entyering ireland have cleared security. It is no dofferent from you entering at a french post and then driving to germany. What will be different is the UK wants to stop the free movement of people from the eu entering the uk. It's not the irish that are causing the problem.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
This might cheer you up.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-6198755
He ended up sneaking out by the back door. Never mind northern ireland where will the uk/scottish border be.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-6198755
He ended up sneaking out by the back door. Never mind northern ireland where will the uk/scottish border be.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
It occurred to me that perhaps our American cohort may perhaps be unfamiliar with the ways of our Irish cousins, to which end I have found for them. Prior exposure to the Roman rite and the local accent would be a benefit but do not, whatever you do, attempt to follow the dialog, I'm convinced the sounds are all constructed on the fly.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
So, if I have been following this at all well, Come October you all are going to be out on your ear, as far as the EU is concerned.
The task now is to negotiate some agreements that will allow the maintenance of at least a minimum of commerce between the UK and EU.
Is that the basic of it?
The task now is to negotiate some agreements that will allow the maintenance of at least a minimum of commerce between the UK and EU.
Is that the basic of it?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
Well no, not precisely. On November 1st the UK will be out of the EU and there will be no trade deal in place between the UK and any other country on earth. We will parade along the main drag with our skirts hitched up and see what we can attract by way of hourly trade.
Everyone will continue to export (subject to unaligned foreign quality standards) but everyone will now pay customs at the standard emergency rate. While we were within Europe there was no customs tax on exports to Europe, and with Europe's trade partners there were negotiated arrangements. Businesses based on delivering parts between multinational factories will die instantly and that's a huge proportion of UK manufacturing.
The situation with the Irish border is slightly more fraught. Those with long memories will recall that armed units among the Republicans wanted a united island, armed units among the Orangemen shouted No Surrender while shooting mostly other Orangemen, and a compromise was agreed over blood oaths that the border would remain for ever open to the passage of people and goods. Nobody has dared guess what will happen come November if border posts are erected.
Everyone will continue to export (subject to unaligned foreign quality standards) but everyone will now pay customs at the standard emergency rate. While we were within Europe there was no customs tax on exports to Europe, and with Europe's trade partners there were negotiated arrangements. Businesses based on delivering parts between multinational factories will die instantly and that's a huge proportion of UK manufacturing.
The situation with the Irish border is slightly more fraught. Those with long memories will recall that armed units among the Republicans wanted a united island, armed units among the Orangemen shouted No Surrender while shooting mostly other Orangemen, and a compromise was agreed over blood oaths that the border would remain for ever open to the passage of people and goods. Nobody has dared guess what will happen come November if border posts are erected.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
More than that it is increasingly likely that northern ireland might go for unification with ireland in some form or other. Scotland will have another referendum and quite possibl;e a yes for independemnce vote this time. The latter prospect is beginning to worry the westminster establishment now they are beginning with the kind of bull**** they had last time. If that happens we will be OK england is well and truly screwed but that's what they voted for. We have a dictatorship in all but name and quite frankly most scots will not thole it for much longer.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I'd be delighted to see the Union dissolved though I'm not sure the Welsh could cope if they tried it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
spot;1524308 wrote: I'd be delighted to see the Union dissolved though I'm not sure the Welsh could cope if they tried it.
Nor the Cornish!
Nor the Cornish!
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
spot;1524308 wrote: I'd be delighted to see the Union dissolved though I'm not sure the Welsh could cope if they tried it.
Why would you be delighted to see the union dissolved? I didn;t think there was much actual supporty in ales for independencee.
Most dcots would have settled for devo max but cameron refused to allow it as a choice on the ballot paper. The snp wanted it as at the time support for independence was in the mid 20%. That it got up to the level it did was quite remarkable the dat after the result cameron went back on the "vow" and nothing promised has actually materialised. That any tporey vpters are left in scotland is a source of bemusement. Labour are as usual more interested in infighting than in doing anything constructive.
If the union breaks up - and imo it will - it will be because of a mop haired public schoolboy with deliusions that he is churchill.
Why would you be delighted to see the union dissolved? I didn;t think there was much actual supporty in ales for independencee.
Most dcots would have settled for devo max but cameron refused to allow it as a choice on the ballot paper. The snp wanted it as at the time support for independence was in the mid 20%. That it got up to the level it did was quite remarkable the dat after the result cameron went back on the "vow" and nothing promised has actually materialised. That any tporey vpters are left in scotland is a source of bemusement. Labour are as usual more interested in infighting than in doing anything constructive.
If the union breaks up - and imo it will - it will be because of a mop haired public schoolboy with deliusions that he is churchill.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
The thing about independence is that the government which emerges has full spending power over all taxation within the new country.
What happens at the moment is that all taxation, corporate as well as personal, is effectively confiscated by London. All major local assets are confiscated too, and too often immediately sold off through privatisation for short-term subsidy of the rich. The main cities spent generations of local rates revenue building social housing stock in council ownership, building local water utilities, all confiscated and the sale proceeds credited to the London treasury.
It has been a half century of theft and only London has benefited. Why do you think the damn place is so big and so wealthy compared to everywhere else. Ever since Margaret Thatcher formed her government and bought tax cuts with the nation's assets, London has behaved like Classical Rome administering its provinces as a source of revenue and cheap resources.
Getting control of taxation requires sovereignty, not mere devolution of limited powers. Removing Westminster from the hierarchy requires independence. As for Wales, if I were Welsh I'd go for it too. Who would be so foolish as to trust London to hand out a fair share of the nation's public resources.
What happens at the moment is that all taxation, corporate as well as personal, is effectively confiscated by London. All major local assets are confiscated too, and too often immediately sold off through privatisation for short-term subsidy of the rich. The main cities spent generations of local rates revenue building social housing stock in council ownership, building local water utilities, all confiscated and the sale proceeds credited to the London treasury.
It has been a half century of theft and only London has benefited. Why do you think the damn place is so big and so wealthy compared to everywhere else. Ever since Margaret Thatcher formed her government and bought tax cuts with the nation's assets, London has behaved like Classical Rome administering its provinces as a source of revenue and cheap resources.
Getting control of taxation requires sovereignty, not mere devolution of limited powers. Removing Westminster from the hierarchy requires independence. As for Wales, if I were Welsh I'd go for it too. Who would be so foolish as to trust London to hand out a fair share of the nation's public resources.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
spot;1524325 wrote: The thing about independence is that the government which emerges has full spending power over all taxation within the new country.
What happens at the moment is that all taxation, corporate as well as personal, is effectively confiscated by London. All major local assets are confiscated too, and too often immediately sold off through privatisation for short-term subsidy of the rich. The main cities spent generations of local rates revenue building social housing stock in council ownership, building local water utilities, all confiscated and the sale proceeds credited to the London treasury.
It has been a half century of theft and only London has benefited. Why do you think the damn place is so big and so wealthy compared to everywhere else. Ever since Margaret Thatcher formed her government and bought tax cuts with the nation's assets, London has behaved like Classical Rome administering its provinces as a source of revenue and cheap resources.
Getting control of taxation requires sovereignty, not mere devolution of limited powers. Removing Westminster from the hierarchy requires independence. As for Wales, if I were Welsh I'd go for it too. Who would be so foolish as to trust London to hand out a fair share of the nation's public resources.
One of the things that has become clear is that the tories intend to take back some of the devolved powers and have more control over how it is spent on "union" projects Proportional representation really works something that is becoming clearer to most scots. The snp might not actually form the government in an indpendent scotland but we won't have a one party state with anelected dictatorship as we seem now to have in westminster. I do try and listen to the brexit side and not fall into the trap of only listening or reading things I already agree with but find myself getting more amd more irate at btheir stupidity and/or hypocrisy.
What happens at the moment is that all taxation, corporate as well as personal, is effectively confiscated by London. All major local assets are confiscated too, and too often immediately sold off through privatisation for short-term subsidy of the rich. The main cities spent generations of local rates revenue building social housing stock in council ownership, building local water utilities, all confiscated and the sale proceeds credited to the London treasury.
It has been a half century of theft and only London has benefited. Why do you think the damn place is so big and so wealthy compared to everywhere else. Ever since Margaret Thatcher formed her government and bought tax cuts with the nation's assets, London has behaved like Classical Rome administering its provinces as a source of revenue and cheap resources.
Getting control of taxation requires sovereignty, not mere devolution of limited powers. Removing Westminster from the hierarchy requires independence. As for Wales, if I were Welsh I'd go for it too. Who would be so foolish as to trust London to hand out a fair share of the nation's public resources.
One of the things that has become clear is that the tories intend to take back some of the devolved powers and have more control over how it is spent on "union" projects Proportional representation really works something that is becoming clearer to most scots. The snp might not actually form the government in an indpendent scotland but we won't have a one party state with anelected dictatorship as we seem now to have in westminster. I do try and listen to the brexit side and not fall into the trap of only listening or reading things I already agree with but find myself getting more amd more irate at btheir stupidity and/or hypocrisy.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I claim that the British Government has adopted the proposals in my initial post in their entirety. They have eliminated the backstop and created a border-free Ireland by adopting the fiction that Northern Ireland will continue to trade freely with the UK, despite the UK having left and Northern Ireland in fact continuing to apply all the EU regulations on trade that it has enjoyed hitherto.
How the House of Commons is going to react on Saturday is anyone's guess. It seems to me that Boris (like Theresa of Westminster who only emerged from the Dark Night of the Soul by being translated from office) is going to have his motions fail and a second referendum voted for. Whether he will then go to jail depends on whether the EU votes against an extension beforehand, which they might well do, since the infamous Letter is unlikely to be sent as commanded by Benn's Law if they don't.
How the House of Commons is going to react on Saturday is anyone's guess. It seems to me that Boris (like Theresa of Westminster who only emerged from the Dark Night of the Soul by being translated from office) is going to have his motions fail and a second referendum voted for. Whether he will then go to jail depends on whether the EU votes against an extension beforehand, which they might well do, since the infamous Letter is unlikely to be sent as commanded by Benn's Law if they don't.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
spot;1526263 wrote: I claim that the British Government has adopted the proposals in my initial post in their entirety. They have eliminated the backstop and created a border-free Ireland by adopting the fiction that Northern Ireland will continue to trade freely with the UK, despite the UK having left and Northern Ireland in fact continuing to apply all the EU regulations on trade that it has enjoyed hitherto.
How the House of Commons is going to react on Saturday is anyone's guess. It seems to me that Boris (like Theresa of Westminster who only emerged from the Dark Night of the Soul by being translated from office) is going to have his motions fail and a second referendum voted for. Whether he will then go to jail depends on whether the EU votes against an extension beforehand, which they might well do, since the infamous Letter is unlikely to be sent as commanded by Benn's Law if they don't.
As is coming to pass :-
But Mr Johnson said he was not "daunted or dismayed" and he still believed the best thing for the UK was to leave the EU later this month on the basis of his "excellent deal".
"I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do," he said.
How the House of Commons is going to react on Saturday is anyone's guess. It seems to me that Boris (like Theresa of Westminster who only emerged from the Dark Night of the Soul by being translated from office) is going to have his motions fail and a second referendum voted for. Whether he will then go to jail depends on whether the EU votes against an extension beforehand, which they might well do, since the infamous Letter is unlikely to be sent as commanded by Benn's Law if they don't.
As is coming to pass :-
But Mr Johnson said he was not "daunted or dismayed" and he still believed the best thing for the UK was to leave the EU later this month on the basis of his "excellent deal".
"I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do," he said.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
And the Irish have finally decided their cage has been sufficiently rattled, Stormont is to sit again. It's three years since the Assembly last met, and it's supposed to be their government.
Not before time either. Recalcitrant, that's the national characteristic of loyalists.
Is loyalist one of those slurs you're no longer meant to use, out of interest?
Not before time either. Recalcitrant, that's the national characteristic of loyalists.
Is loyalist one of those slurs you're no longer meant to use, out of interest?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
Seems the Bojo high risk strategy has worked to perfection .
Early election .
Achieve what Aunty Theresa was incapable of .
Continue a fairy tale ruling and watch endless rainbows as the EU evaporates before our eyes .
Early election .
Achieve what Aunty Theresa was incapable of .
Continue a fairy tale ruling and watch endless rainbows as the EU evaporates before our eyes .
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
Then , once the exit is legally ratified , tell them to stuff the 'owed ' money in some secret place where the sun never shines .
That will take at least a decade to sort out in the courts and if the EU even still exists , Bojo should be heading up the new UN while the Trumps continue their dynastic triumph in four out of the seven continents .
Heaven on Earth is a real possibility .
That will take at least a decade to sort out in the courts and if the EU even still exists , Bojo should be heading up the new UN while the Trumps continue their dynastic triumph in four out of the seven continents .
Heaven on Earth is a real possibility .
On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I wonder, today, whether he has an agreement in place with the Hungarians or Poles or Kazakhs to veto any potential extension past Halloween and that Brexit finally means Brexit.
Throw your mind back to McKellen's film version of Richard III, at the start, when the tank comes through the wall. Eight days and counting, with no deal in sight.
Throw your mind back to McKellen's film version of Richard III, at the start, when the tank comes through the wall. Eight days and counting, with no deal in sight.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I'm often asked by my American friends, "Spot, what is this strange British invention called satire? How does it work and how's it done?"
Allow me to provide a modest example. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (that's what this country is actually named though few people bother to use the title) formally left the European Union this week. Had anyone bothered to remember the name of the country while discussing our departure, they might have adjusted their ideas.
Anyway. To mark our leaving, let's remember why we did it.
A major aspect, especially in fishing ports, is that the London government now has complete control over who can fish in our territorial waters. Our fishing communities voted en masse for this position, convinced that it would bolster their profits and keep out intruding foreigners.
Also high on the list of reasons to vote leave, we were told, was to cut out all that red tape which was hamstringing UK industries. Red tape, in Britain, is our name for extensive legally-required documentation to enable goods to be bought and sold. The Book of Revelations refers to this as the Mark of the Beast, apparently [1]. A lot of it is under the purview of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise, or Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs depending on which website you use. That department also has the legal right and duty to inspect the goods and the movements to check that the paperwork is honest, truthful and complete.
Now that we've actually left, it will be exciting to see what the leave voters make of the implementation of their dreams. For the record, while the domestic movement of goods within the Island of Great Britain will still not require export control documentation, it will now for the first time be needed for goods leaving the island regardless of the destination. There will be a brief deferral into next year because nobody expects efficiency in setting up these systems, not in winter. Not in the UK, anyway. Except, for some reason, there will be no deferral on goods moving between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, which is an entirely new category of red tape which never existed while we were in the EU. Despite these areas still both being in the same country, export documentation will now be introduced for these movements and it's not been deferred into next year. We're told that the only alternative would have been watching Northern Ireland's Orangemen get their guns out of the loft again.
As for who can fish in Cornish waters next year, the local fishermen are now entirely at the mercy of their London overlords. Some of them no doubt continue to trust the Westminster government to expel the foreign trawlers and reserve all the Cornish fish to Cornish fishermen. Or at least to Britissh fishermen from Norfolk and Grimsby and Scotland. I expect I'll bump this thread next year and document the reality.
I did not vote Leave, by the way.
[1]: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name - Rev 13:16
Allow me to provide a modest example. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (that's what this country is actually named though few people bother to use the title) formally left the European Union this week. Had anyone bothered to remember the name of the country while discussing our departure, they might have adjusted their ideas.
Anyway. To mark our leaving, let's remember why we did it.
A major aspect, especially in fishing ports, is that the London government now has complete control over who can fish in our territorial waters. Our fishing communities voted en masse for this position, convinced that it would bolster their profits and keep out intruding foreigners.
Also high on the list of reasons to vote leave, we were told, was to cut out all that red tape which was hamstringing UK industries. Red tape, in Britain, is our name for extensive legally-required documentation to enable goods to be bought and sold. The Book of Revelations refers to this as the Mark of the Beast, apparently [1]. A lot of it is under the purview of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise, or Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs depending on which website you use. That department also has the legal right and duty to inspect the goods and the movements to check that the paperwork is honest, truthful and complete.
Now that we've actually left, it will be exciting to see what the leave voters make of the implementation of their dreams. For the record, while the domestic movement of goods within the Island of Great Britain will still not require export control documentation, it will now for the first time be needed for goods leaving the island regardless of the destination. There will be a brief deferral into next year because nobody expects efficiency in setting up these systems, not in winter. Not in the UK, anyway. Except, for some reason, there will be no deferral on goods moving between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, which is an entirely new category of red tape which never existed while we were in the EU. Despite these areas still both being in the same country, export documentation will now be introduced for these movements and it's not been deferred into next year. We're told that the only alternative would have been watching Northern Ireland's Orangemen get their guns out of the loft again.
As for who can fish in Cornish waters next year, the local fishermen are now entirely at the mercy of their London overlords. Some of them no doubt continue to trust the Westminster government to expel the foreign trawlers and reserve all the Cornish fish to Cornish fishermen. Or at least to Britissh fishermen from Norfolk and Grimsby and Scotland. I expect I'll bump this thread next year and document the reality.
I did not vote Leave, by the way.
[1]: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name - Rev 13:16
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
And here's why we have the problem in the first place. Tabloid manipulation of mentally constipated reactionary sheep.
I like the photo though. I saw Charles Dance at the Donmar back awhile, he's very present on a stage.
I like the photo though. I saw Charles Dance at the Donmar back awhile, he's very present on a stage.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop
I'm delighted with this notion...
Not before time, either.Ireland cannot trust an “erratic” and “dangerous” Boris Johnson on Brexit and needs to start pressuring Downing Street for a referendum on Irish unification, according to Mary Lou McDonald, the leader of Sinn Féin.
Johnson has forfeited credibility by unpicking the withdrawal agreement and cannot be believed when he says he wants a trade deal, said McDonald. “He’s the prime minister and perfidious Albion just got perfidiouser, if there’s such a word.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... u-mcdonald
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.