Merry Christmas or happy holidays?

Guppers · Post by **Guppers** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:32 pm

I'm on the " merry Christmas" side....which do you prefer?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:07 pm

I tend towards "Merry Christmas"

Every now and again someone winces or something but after sixty some years, it's fairly ingrained, and I have little real motivation to change.

Let me share a post I made on FB the other day:

Definition of Merry:

merÂ·ry

ËˆmerÄ“/Submit

adjective

cheerful and lively.

"the narrow streets were dense with merry throngs of students"

synonyms: cheerful, cheery, in high spirits, high-spirited, bright, sunny, smiling, lighthearted, buoyant, lively, carefree, without a care in the world, joyful, joyous, jolly, convivial, festive, mirthful, gleeful, happy, glad, laughing; More

(of an occasion or season) characterized by festivity and rejoicing.

"he wished me a merry Christmas"

BRITISHinformal

slightly and good-humoredly drunk.

"after the third bottle of beer he began to feel quite merry"

So, if I wish you a Merry Christmas, I am saying that I hope you spend the Christmas Holiday being cheerful, cheery, in high spirits, high-spirited, bright, sunny, smiling, lighthearted, buoyant, lively, carefree, without a care in the world, joyful, joyous, jolly, convivial, festive, mirthful, gleeful, happy, glad, laughing, and maybe even a little tipsy.

If that offends you, I'm sorry, but I think you need to get a life.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:11 am

LarsMac;1503340 wrote: I tend towards "Merry Christmas"

Every now and again someone winces or something but after sixty some years, it's fairly ingrained, and I have little real motivation to change.

Let me share a post I made on FB the other day:

You know, I've never had anyone wince when I wish them Merry Christmas - or Happy Diwali or Joyful Eid. I don't think I'll change either

cars · Post by **cars** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:23 am

All my life during the Christmas season, I always said Merry Christmas!

Over the years, PC has run rampage and caused the happy greeting Merry Christmas to be questionable greeting, sad.

I still like to say Merry Christmas, but some times I say (sadly) Happy Holidays when someone says it to me first.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:28 am

I always use Happy Holidays, it's automatic with me. Whatever someone wishes me I just thank them and tell them it's mutual.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:23 am

It's Christmas..........you wish Happy Christmas.............what else would you say ?

Post by **spot** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:00 am

I take exception to people demanding that I be happy. On those infrequent occasions when I approximate happiness it's because I've chosen to, not because I've been instructed to. I disapprove of happiness, it's too often based on uninformed illusion.

As for merry, the OED sums it up in its first entry, " Of an occupation, event, state, or condition: causing pleasure or happiness; pleasing, delightful. Obs." - obsolete. Just so. What business has anyone to be merry in today's world.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:34 am

spot;1503366 wrote: I take exception to people demanding that I be happy. On those infrequent occasions when I approximate happiness it's because I've chosen to, not because I've been instructed to. I disapprove of happiness, it's too often based on uninformed illusion.

As for merry, the OED sums it up in its first entry, " Of an occupation, event, state, or condition: causing pleasure or happiness; pleasing, delightful. Obs." - obsolete. Just so. What business has anyone to be merry in today's world.

So, to roughly translate - "Bah humbug"?

Post by **spot** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:35 am

It's the appropriate time of year to say it, after all.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:10 am

Merry Christmas all the way, no one objects to it no matter how much facebook gets gullible users to say so.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:01 am

spot;1503366 wrote: I take exception to people demanding that I be happy. On those infrequent occasions when I approximate happiness it's because I've chosen to, not because I've been instructed to. I disapprove of happiness, it's too often based on uninformed illusion.

As for merry, the OED sums it up in its first entry, " Of an occupation, event, state, or condition: causing pleasure or happiness; pleasing, delightful. Obs." - obsolete. Just so. What business has anyone to be merry in today's world.

Who demands your happiness ?

I have chosen to be happy.....................and been extremely unhappy, you don't get the choice.

If you are happy.....enjoy it.

If you are unhappy.................keep it to yourself.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:30 am

spot;1503366 wrote: I take exception to people demanding that I be happy. On those infrequent occasions when I approximate happiness it's because I've chosen to, not because I've been instructed to. I disapprove of happiness, it's too often based on uninformed illusion.

As for merry, the OED sums it up in its first entry, " Of an occupation, event, state, or condition: causing pleasure or happiness; pleasing, delightful. Obs." - obsolete. Just so. What business has anyone to be merry in today's world.

Well, I can become quite merry after a few pints of Ale.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:33 am

Ahso!;1503355 wrote: I always use Happy Holidays, it's automatic with me.

Ahso!;1503355 wrote: Whatever someone wishes me I just thank them and tell them it's mutual.
Same here.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:49 am

I usually just go with Merry Christmas or wish them whatever they wished me. If it's a little kid, staring at my beard, I often say Ho Ho Ho.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:20 am

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year - both traditional and well meaning. Spot you can be such a misery guts sometimes - Oh well it takes all sorts dunnit. "Happy Holidays" is, I believe, American instigated, although I expect I shall be corrected if I'm wrong.

Post by **spot** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:58 am

G#Gill;1503380 wrote: "Happy Holidays" is, I believe, American instigated, although I expect I shall be corrected if I'm wrong.
Christmas was wished as "a happy holiday" at least as far back as 1879 in London where the following introductory paragraph was printed:Dear Mr. Editor,

You so very kindly wished all us children a happy holiday, perhaps you would like to hear how and where some of us spent our holidays. I shall feel great pleasure in telling you how I spent mine.

Golden childhood, or the child's own annual of pictures, poetry and music. London, Ward, Lock & Tyler, 1879

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:11 am

Selective pressures dictate these sorts of things. Well, selective pressures dictates everything actually.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:30 am

spot;1503381 wrote: Christmas was wished as "a happy holiday" at least as far back as 1879 in London where the following introductory paragraph was printed:Dear Mr. Editor,

You so very kindly wished all us children a happy holiday, perhaps you would like to hear how and where some of us spent our holidays. I shall feel great pleasure in telling you how I spent mine.

Golden childhood, or the child's own annual of pictures, poetry and music. London, Ward, Lock & Tyler, 1879

Thanks for the correction Mr. spot !

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:33 am

I have some relatives who get quite riled up over the whole Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing. They think that unless you specify Christmas, you are somehow ignoring the "True Meaning" of the holiday - Whatever that really means. This is, near as I can tell, some sort of Xtian backlash from the '80.

With them, I have taken to saying "Happy Holidays"

I am quite prepared to offer a Happy Hannukah to those that I know to be Jewish, when that holiday comes around. I have actually never met anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, but would be perfectly willing to wish them a happy one, should I meet them.

I am also considering simply saying, "Happy New Year" and leaving the whole religious thing alone.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:35 am

LarsMac;1503386 wrote: I have some relatives who get quite riled up over the whole Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing. They think that unless you specify Christmas, you are somehow ignoring the "True Meaning" of the holiday - Whatever that really means. This is, near as I can tell, some sort of Xtian backlash from the '80.

With them, I have taken to saying "Happy Holidays"

I am quite prepared to offer a Happy Hannukah to those that I know to be Jewish, when that holiday comes around. I have actually never met anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, but would be perfectly willing to wish them a happy one, should I meet them.

I am also considering simply saying, "Happy New Year" and leaving the whole religious thing alone.

Ah, but would that cover our Chinese friends

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:55 am

LarsMac;1503386 wrote: I have some relatives who get quite riled up over the whole Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing. They think that unless you specify Christmas, you are somehow ignoring the "True Meaning" of the holiday - Whatever that really means. This is, near as I can tell, some sort of Xtian backlash from the '80.

With them, I have taken to saying "Happy Holidays"

I am quite prepared to offer a Happy Hannukah to those that I know to be Jewish, when that holiday comes around. I have actually never met anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, but would be perfectly willing to wish them a happy one, should I meet them.

I am also considering simply saying, "Happy New Year" and leaving the whole religious thing alone.What many people don't get is the saturation factor of a word (there's an actual term for that that perhaps Spot can locate in the annals of his brain). The more saturated and common a word becomes the more it looses it's original meaning and becomes subject to various meaning applied to it.

My opinion is that christians should have left whatever sacred meaning the word had for them and protected it rather than demand everyone speak their preferred vocabulary. Christmas is now more of a secular term meaning giving/shopping/buying/selling. The irony is that what christians complain about is their own doing.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:49 pm

Merry christmas. The happy holidays thing is an americanism that if you use here causes confusion and puzzlement. As it is in amrica doesn't mean it's the same elsewhere

As to the "true" meaning of christmas it's origins are in pagan festivities celebrating the end of winter and the start of the days getting longer again also usually round about new year there is a full moon for most of the last two thousand years christians tried to stop people celebrating it most especially the puiritans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas ... ew_England

Laugh and the devil gets in don't you know you're not out on the is earth to be happy but to suffer and die so get your reward in heaven.

New year has alway been a bigger party here anyway.

posted by spot

I take exception to people demanding that I be happy. On those infrequent occasions when I approximate happiness it's because I've chosen to, not because I've been instructed to. I disapprove of happiness, it's too often based on uninformed illusion.

As for merry, the OED sums it up in its first entry, " Of an occupation, event, state, or condition: causing pleasure or happiness; pleasing, delightful. Obs." - obsolete. Just so. What business has anyone to be merry in today's world.

You're a miserable bugger, most people probably don't mean it anyway

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:33 pm

Ahso!;1503393 wrote: What many people don't get is the saturation factor of a word (there's an actual term for that that perhaps Spot can locate in the annals of his brain). The more saturated and common a word becomes the more it looses it's original meaning and becomes subject to various meaning applied to it.

My opinion is that christians should have left whatever sacred meaning the word had for them and protected it rather than demand everyone speak their preferred vocabulary. Christmas is now more of a secular term meaning giving/shopping/buying/selling. The irony is that what christians complain about is their own doing.

Is genericization an appropriate application for what I posted above?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:18 pm

Ahso!;1503393 wrote: What many people don't get is the saturation factor of a word (there's an actual term for that that perhaps Spot can locate in the annals of his brain). The more saturated and common a word becomes the more it looses it's original meaning and becomes subject to various meaning applied to it.

My opinion is that christians should have left whatever sacred meaning the word had for them and protected it rather than demand everyone speak their preferred vocabulary. Christmas is now more of a secular term meaning giving/shopping/buying/selling. The irony is that what christians complain about is their own doing.

Probably needs some more research, but I do not think that either phrase, "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" originated from any real Christian reference. Well, other that the obvious, that the Church created the Christmas story to adapt the winter festivities most Western tribes had carried from their traditions.

Merry has little if anything to do with any spiritual aspect of the season. American Christians got their panties in a twist in the latter 20th century over the attempt to be more inclusive of other traditions during the holidays.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Happy, Merry or whatever, I'll tale it and run with it. Nothing to lose.

Actually, I am always grateful for the gesture.

Post by **spot** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:47 pm

I find Sylwester slightly more meaningful, or Hogmanay as it's known in the Land of Cakes. New Year's Eve. What I dislike about Christmas Day is seeing anyone, it's a visceral reaction to previous Christmases.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Im still trying to find out how "santa" got into common language......its always been "father christmas". And merry christmas..... whats this holiday business? Is everyonr going on holiday over the christmas period?......

Im so over it. Christmas in July makes so much more sense.

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:50 pm

magentaflame;1503421 wrote: Im still trying to find out how "santa" got into common language......its always been "father christmas". And merry christmas..... whats this holiday business? Is everyonr going on holiday over the christmas period?......

Im so over it. Christmas in July makes so much more sense.

My birthday is July 25th, so I am fine with that!!

As for the topic of the thread; I say Merry Christmas, happy holidays and even have a lovely holiday season.

I prefer the "Merry Christmas" personally, but as for wishing well to someone during a certain time of the year is really the important thing to me.

Guppers · Post by **Guppers** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:41 pm

I prefer ' merry Christmas' just because I grew up with it...has nothing to do with religion. It's just part of the Santa clause , Christmas tree, presents, get togethers that I associate with it....

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:21 am

Santa is Spanish for Saint and it's a contraction of Saint Nicholas, I expect. I don't imagine there were many saints I'd have felt comfortable chatting with, had I been there and shared a language, but I suppose it takes all sorts.

The notion that there's a being who appears in every household on one particular night of the year leaving gifts, with or without sleighs or reindeer, is peculiarly unpleasant, reminiscent ofThe rich man in his castle,

The poor man at his gate,

God made them high and lowly,

And ordered their estate.If Santa was said to leave the expensive presents in the hovels and the wrapped dung in the palace then the story would have my qualified support but all this evil myth does is to maintain the status quo in line with the Biblical injunction "He that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath" - what we might call low-taxation theology.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:04 am

Apparently Donald Trump is trying to ban the phrase Happy Holiday, due to it's overly PC nature, caused by Muslims, of course.

Something I have always noticed, though, is that the word 'Merry' only ever seems to be used in relationship to Drink, or with Christmas. The latter, of course, combining the two.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:02 am

FourPart;1503478 wrote: Apparently Donald Trump is trying to ban the phrase Happy HolidayI've tried googling but I can't find any reference to a ban. Are you quite certain?

He has a preference for seasonal references to Christmas which was clearly expressed in this 2015 interview

He's said that as a family he'll boycott stores using "happy holidays", but a ban would be in a different league altogether. What did you see that suggests one?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:16 pm

FourPart;1503478 wrote: Apparently Donald Trump is trying to ban the phrase Happy Holiday, due to it's overly PC nature, caused by Muslims, of course.

Something I have always noticed, though, is that the word 'Merry' only ever seems to be used in relationship to Drink, or with Christmas. The latter, of course, combining the two.

nonsense, don't believe all the hate crap spread around on social media. Muslims have no worries about Christians celebrating Christmas

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:23 pm

Jews and Muslims in Victoria British Columbia also put up Christmas trees and lights etc. At least some of them do. It is amazing what some people do with their spare time when they can't think of what else to do besides trying to spread hatred. Brains?????????

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:24 pm

It has been called Christmas for hundreds of years and I see no reason we should change "merry Christmas" to "Happy Holiday".. The Jews and the Muslims and others have their own feast days and I respect that. I believe they have every right as we Christians do to celebrate their special days.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:27 pm

Betty Boop;1503556 wrote: nonsense, don't believe all the hate crap spread around on social media. Muslims have no worries about Christians celebrating Christmas
You do realise that was intended as sarcasm, not as a serious comment?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:04 am

FourPart;1503641 wrote: You do realise that was intended as sarcasm, not as a serious comment?

My bad then, apologies but I have been glutened and I am operating in a fog :-1

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:35 am

Betty Boop;1503642 wrote: I am operating in a fog :-1

Tell your administrator she needs to bring a locum surgeon in for the rest of the week, there's no telling what you might cut out in your condition.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:28 am

I always say Happy Christmas and Merry New Year, If nothing else it's at least confusing.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:48 am

Betty Boop;1503642 wrote: My bad then, apologies but I have been glutened and I am operating in a fog :-1
We had one hell of a fog this morning. Bad enough going into work. Once in the office we could only just make out the trees on the other side of the office driveway. An hour later we couldn't see the ground from the 2nd floor.

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:41 am

Happy Bah Humbug Day to you Spot

I always say Merry Christmas, it`s my culture. It is what I was raised with and it is not meant to offend. I am not forcing anything upon another, I am simply letting you know that I celebrate Christmas, in the way my family has celebrated for centuries.

Maybe if I yelled Merry F...ing Christmas at others it could be offensive but other than that... I am simply wishing others well on a tradition that was never intended to offend.

*bloody bleeding hearts*... Minks utters under her breath. LOL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:28 pm

If some folks don't want to participate in the spirit of the season they can look the other way. Want to be miserable at Christmas time then go for it. Just keep it to yourself.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:39 pm

I think "Happy Holidays" began because people didn't want to say "Happy Kwanzaa", or however you wish someone well for that day. Hard enough to say Happy Chanukah without dealing with Kwanzaa too.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:47 pm

AnneBoleyn;1504010 wrote: I think "Happy Holidays" began because people didn't want to say "Happy Kwanzaa", or however you wish someone well for that day. Hard enough to say Happy Chanukah without dealing with Kwanzaa too.

I think "Happy Holidays" has been around nearly as long as "Merry Christmas"

I know that it has been around since the mid-19th Century.

I've taken to saying "Happy Christmas" recently, just to mix things up.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:42 am

Ted;1503991 wrote: If some folks don't want to participate in the spirit of the season they can look the other way. Want to be miserable at Christmas time then go for it. Just keep it to yourself.

Looking the other way...

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:18 am

LarsMac;1504011 wrote: I think "Happy Holidays" has been around nearly as long as "Merry Christmas"

I know that it has been around since the mid-19th Century.

I've taken to saying "Happy Christmas" recently, just to mix things up.

Should have not said 'Began', but 'Grew in Popular Usage.' Please respond to this idea. Also, when I lived in England, many people (most?) would say 'HAPPY xmas.' Was I just hangin' w/the wrong crowd?

Post by **spot** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:51 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Wish_Y ... _Christmas

Carol singers going house to house in England sang "We wish you a merry Christmas" as they departed, at least as far back as the 18th century, and still do.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:06 am

spot;1504020 wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Wish_Y ... _Christmas

Carol singers going house to house in England sang "We wish you a merry Christmas" as they departed, at least as far back as the 18th century, and still do.

I knew it. Hangin' w/the wrong crowd. :yh_rotfl

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:45 am

Is it not the case that in america thanksgiving and chrismas are one big holiday period? If so would that not be part of the reason for a generic happy holidays.

We have people complaining about christmas being written as Xmas because it's anti christian. Usually the same sort of people that complain about wild new year celebrations and it's pagan connotations. Do you first foot in the states?

Guppers · Post by **Guppers** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:19 pm

gmc;1504023 wrote: Is it not the case that in america thanksgiving and chrismas are one big holiday period? If so would that not be part of the reason for a generic happy holidays.

We have people complaining about christmas being written as Xmas because it's anti christian. Usually the same sort of people that complain about wild new year celebrations and it's pagan connotations. Do you first foot in the states?

No. Thanksgiving and Christmas are two different holidays.