The bridge, between junctions three and four, came down on the London-bound carriageway on Saturday after it was hit by a lorry carrying a digger.
M20 motorway reopens after bridge collapse - BBC News
We need a new crime on the statute books as a matter of priority. Driving in such a witlessly incompetent manner as to cost other road users in excess of £100 million in lost time and missed bookings. The only appropriate sentence has to be life imprisonment and if they ever bring back the treadmill, that too.
I presume his load wasn't properly secured. People have died from badly-secured digger arms.
When life really should mean life
When life really should mean life
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When life really should mean life
Accident : an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
When life really should mean life
Bruv;1500416 wrote: Accident : an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
There is often a presumption that the "accident" occurred entirely by happenstance, with no causal chain to follow to determine just how the event came about.
It has been my observation, though, that most "accidents" occur because some person, or persons, failed to carry out some precautionary function under their responsibility.
There are the occasional events that were completely unforeseen, such as the rock slide in Glenwood Canyon, that shut Interstate 70 down completely for over a week.
In the aftermath of that event, however, there were some people who were stranded in extreme winter weather because they had never updated their GPS, which led them to a mountain road that is closed during the winter months, and they ignored the warning signs on said highway because they trusted their GPS explicitly.
Some people wanted to blame their demise on the rock slide which caused them to go off course, instead of laying the responsibility on the user who neglected to perform proper maintenance and failed to follow more up-to-date information.
Back to the truck driver. in the US it has been documented that more than 70% of truck related accidents are the result of operator error, such as driving far more hours that legally allowed, failure to properly secure their load, poor vehicle maintenance, etc.
I believe that people are far too free with the term, "accident."
There is often a presumption that the "accident" occurred entirely by happenstance, with no causal chain to follow to determine just how the event came about.
It has been my observation, though, that most "accidents" occur because some person, or persons, failed to carry out some precautionary function under their responsibility.
There are the occasional events that were completely unforeseen, such as the rock slide in Glenwood Canyon, that shut Interstate 70 down completely for over a week.
In the aftermath of that event, however, there were some people who were stranded in extreme winter weather because they had never updated their GPS, which led them to a mountain road that is closed during the winter months, and they ignored the warning signs on said highway because they trusted their GPS explicitly.
Some people wanted to blame their demise on the rock slide which caused them to go off course, instead of laying the responsibility on the user who neglected to perform proper maintenance and failed to follow more up-to-date information.
Back to the truck driver. in the US it has been documented that more than 70% of truck related accidents are the result of operator error, such as driving far more hours that legally allowed, failure to properly secure their load, poor vehicle maintenance, etc.
I believe that people are far too free with the term, "accident."
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
When life really should mean life
Blimey Lars.......did you just turn into Spot ?
Can I change that answer to Human error ?
Can I change that answer to Human error ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
When life really should mean life
I have no idea why you can't simply grasp the concept of reckless endangerment. It may be accidental - nobody would expect it to be deliberate! - but if, at the same time, the consequence is predictable if consistent professional competence isn't applied, then the accident is also criminal. It's a bit like deviously lying to take a job as a bin lorry driver while knowingly uninsurably dangerously ill. Neither subsequent event is an act of God. If this digger was in fact a loose load then the consequence, bringing the bridge down, though unintended and accidental, is criminal recklessness.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When life really should mean life
I expect there will be a full investigation, so in your time honoured way, why don't we wait and see the outcome of that ?
I suspect either complacency by the operatives, doing a job they have done so very many times but on this rare occasion missing something ie human failure.
Or component failure.
I suspect either complacency by the operatives, doing a job they have done so very many times but on this rare occasion missing something ie human failure.
Or component failure.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
When life really should mean life
The driver will probably lose his job, get done for dangerous driving, may lose his licence - don't you think losing his livelihood is enough of a punishment when there are no fatalities? While we're at it much of the EU regulations that hamper businesses that our current fascist givernment want to do away with relates to health and sefety thimngs like the working time directive that restrict drivers hours - how long do you think it will take themn top ease up on that one.
When life really should mean life
gmc;1500459 wrote: don't you think losing his livelihood is enough of a punishment when there are no fatalities?
The cumulative £100 million cost to everyone else trying to use the motorway doesn't count for anything? That's all real money people no longer have in their pockets. It's an absolute fortune.
The cumulative £100 million cost to everyone else trying to use the motorway doesn't count for anything? That's all real money people no longer have in their pockets. It's an absolute fortune.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When life really should mean life
spot;1500461 wrote: The cumulative £100 million cost to everyone else trying to use the motorway doesn't count for anything? That's all real money people no longer have in their pockets. It's an absolute fortune.
That motorway has cost cumulatively a lot more than that over the past few years down to French industrial disputes, and the actions of migrants.
Cross pollinating from the metric thread.....no seriously..........one wonders how much the cumulative cost of tooling and printing ink dual labeling has cost the world over the many years ?
That motorway has cost cumulatively a lot more than that over the past few years down to French industrial disputes, and the actions of migrants.
Cross pollinating from the metric thread.....no seriously..........one wonders how much the cumulative cost of tooling and printing ink dual labeling has cost the world over the many years ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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magentaflame
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When life really should mean life
I suggested a rule of thumb and was laughed at.
My suggestion an electronic height register as all trucks leave any depot. Easy cheap an alerts drivers not only to their height at the onset but alerts drivers something is wrong when usual height is compromised in some way. Cautionary signs and gps alerts to bridge heights is not enough. Ive seen brand new bridges that have shifted and taken weeks for engineers to fix.
A simple electronic devise in every vehicle. Or incorperated into apps. (That most drivers use these days would help emmensely.... width too would help .
My suggestion an electronic height register as all trucks leave any depot. Easy cheap an alerts drivers not only to their height at the onset but alerts drivers something is wrong when usual height is compromised in some way. Cautionary signs and gps alerts to bridge heights is not enough. Ive seen brand new bridges that have shifted and taken weeks for engineers to fix.
A simple electronic devise in every vehicle. Or incorperated into apps. (That most drivers use these days would help emmensely.... width too would help .
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
When life really should mean life
spot;1500461 wrote: The cumulative £100 million cost to everyone else trying to use the motorway doesn't count for anything? That's all real money people no longer have in their pockets. It's an absolute fortune.
That's why the haulier will have liability insurance not having it is a criminal offence (I think correct me if I'm wrong). Perhaps the digger arm had ben left raised, human error was given the wrong height human error again.
That is different imo from a company or individual consistenty ignoring safety regulations in order to, for example save costs. We still don't have legislation that make company directors liable for actions taken at their behest that cost lives.
This one like all the other bridge strike is down to the driver making a mistake it's different from a drunk driver or someone causing a fatality driving too fast or some arsehole on a phone that runs in to someone. A mistake or an action that is criminal at the time the decision was taken.
Don't get me wrong the driver should be prosecuted he doesn;t really have any excuse but tell me how many near misses have you had where you were fiddling with your radio instead of paying attention or you didn't see that motor cyclist and pulled out in front of him because he was in the blind spot caused by the mirror and you only glanced to the right instead of looking properly, how often have you driven to work an realised you don't remember the journey we all make mistakes and do stupid things I think it's a mistake to rush to judgement.
Remember that bin lorry in glasgow that killed 6 people? Most drivers would probab ly agree he should have been jailed, it's on the forms that itls a criminal offence to lie on a licence application form. he did and got away with it. So did the employer that didn't bither checking on references. Now he should have got life.
That's why the haulier will have liability insurance not having it is a criminal offence (I think correct me if I'm wrong). Perhaps the digger arm had ben left raised, human error was given the wrong height human error again.
That is different imo from a company or individual consistenty ignoring safety regulations in order to, for example save costs. We still don't have legislation that make company directors liable for actions taken at their behest that cost lives.
This one like all the other bridge strike is down to the driver making a mistake it's different from a drunk driver or someone causing a fatality driving too fast or some arsehole on a phone that runs in to someone. A mistake or an action that is criminal at the time the decision was taken.
Don't get me wrong the driver should be prosecuted he doesn;t really have any excuse but tell me how many near misses have you had where you were fiddling with your radio instead of paying attention or you didn't see that motor cyclist and pulled out in front of him because he was in the blind spot caused by the mirror and you only glanced to the right instead of looking properly, how often have you driven to work an realised you don't remember the journey we all make mistakes and do stupid things I think it's a mistake to rush to judgement.
Remember that bin lorry in glasgow that killed 6 people? Most drivers would probab ly agree he should have been jailed, it's on the forms that itls a criminal offence to lie on a licence application form. he did and got away with it. So did the employer that didn't bither checking on references. Now he should have got life.
When life really should mean life
gmc;1500498 wrote: That's why the haulier will have liability insurance not having it is a criminal offence (I think correct me if I'm wrong).Not one penny of that liability insurance will go toward the £100 million cost to everyone else trying to use the motorway. It might compensate the half-dozen crashed and injured users. I'm quite happy to forgive the driver on behalf of the the half-dozen crashed and injured users since nobody actually died, even if a court won't, but not at all for the tens of thousands of uncompensated users who lost time and bookings.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When life really should mean life
I don't think the driver of the M20 incident can really be blamed. Motorway bridges don't display height restrictions. I might easily have thought that all motorway bridges were of a standard height, so if it had managed to go under one bridge, it would go under the others. It's not as if it's one of those many incidences where high vehicles totally disregard blatant Low Bridge warnings.
When life really should mean life
I thought the bridge support was hit while the lorry was traveling on the hard shoulder which in turn caused the overhead part of the bridge to fall.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
When life really should mean life
If the bridge support was hit, then it's downright recklessness. A vehicle that size in the wrong hands is a lethal weapon and it's quite right that we expect drivers to be experienced enough to handle one.