Zika virus: Outbreak 'likely to spread across Americas' says WHO - BBC News
Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador and Jamaica last week recommended women delay pregnancies until more was known about the virus.
This in a country and region where the catholic church does it's best to prevent family planning and access to contraceptives and abortion is a criminal offence. Claim it's the will of god?
Wonder what the church will do about this.
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Wonder what the church will do about this.
You are overreaching, gmc. The church doesn't have the same attitude toward disease.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
AnneBoleyn;1492056 wrote: You are overreaching, gmc. The church doesn't have the same attitude toward disease.
Do you think the Church will forgo their stand on Birth Control, to prevent birth defects caused by this virus?
Do you think the Church will forgo their stand on Birth Control, to prevent birth defects caused by this virus?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Wonder what the church will do about this.
AnneBoleyn;1492056 wrote: You are overreaching, gmc. The church doesn't have the same attitude toward disease.
You rather miss the point.
If you are a woman in south america how do you access contraceptives to control when and if you becopme pregnant and should you find your unborn child has been affected by this what do you do if the option of abortion is not available to you. The church has done a lot of harm by preaching against th use to condoms to prevent aids if it keeps nthe same attitude to contraception and abortion this may be devastating. How would you like to be advised not to get pregnant and by the way you have no access to contraceptives because you live in a country whre the dominant religion believes it to be a sin Not just in south america the
attacks on planned parenthood are instigated by demented religionist who beliegve they have the right to decide what is right or wrong.
You rather miss the point.
If you are a woman in south america how do you access contraceptives to control when and if you becopme pregnant and should you find your unborn child has been affected by this what do you do if the option of abortion is not available to you. The church has done a lot of harm by preaching against th use to condoms to prevent aids if it keeps nthe same attitude to contraception and abortion this may be devastating. How would you like to be advised not to get pregnant and by the way you have no access to contraceptives because you live in a country whre the dominant religion believes it to be a sin Not just in south america the
attacks on planned parenthood are instigated by demented religionist who beliegve they have the right to decide what is right or wrong.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
LarsMac;1492060 wrote: Do you think the Church will forgo their stand on Birth Control, to prevent birth defects caused by this virus?
Given that they absolutely refused to do so after the Dioxin factory at Seveso in Italy exploded almost guaranteeing birth defects if any pregnany woman within fifty miles I would be amazed if they changed their stance for a disease.
Given that they absolutely refused to do so after the Dioxin factory at Seveso in Italy exploded almost guaranteeing birth defects if any pregnany woman within fifty miles I would be amazed if they changed their stance for a disease.
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
gmc;1492039 wrote: Zika virus: Outbreak 'likely to spread across Americas' says WHO - BBC NewsThis in a country and region where the catholic church does it's best to prevent family planning and access to contraceptives and abortion is a criminal offence. Claim it's the will of god?
Poster gmc never wastes an opportunity to slander the Catholic Church, an institution about which he knows very little.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
Poster gmc never wastes an opportunity to slander the Catholic Church, an institution about which he knows very little.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Wonder what the church will do about this.
I did miss your point, gmc. The church would not approve abortion for infected mothers. Like Mark's answer.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Mark Aspam;1492071 wrote: Poster gmc never wastes an opportunity to slander the Catholic Church, an institution about which he knows very little.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
That is true, but they may not have such a vaccine for a decade.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
That is true, but they may not have such a vaccine for a decade.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Wonder what the church will do about this.
LarsMac;1492079 wrote: That is true, but they may not have such a vaccine for a decade.
And even if they did, would they be able to afford it, what with the prices the pahrmaceutical barons would place upon it.
And even if they did, would they be able to afford it, what with the prices the pahrmaceutical barons would place upon it.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Mark Aspam;1492071 wrote: Poster gmc never wastes an opportunity to slander the Catholic Church, an institution about which he knows very little.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
Would you care to comment on the Seveso incident?
I am *not* a Catholic basher but I did find that Papal ruling inhumane.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
Would you care to comment on the Seveso incident?
I am *not* a Catholic basher but I did find that Papal ruling inhumane.
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
1. That is true, but they may not have such a vaccine for a decade.
2. And even if they did, would they be able to afford it, what with the prices the pahrmaceutical barons would place upon it.
3. Would you care to comment on the Seveso incident? I am *not* a Catholic basher but I did find that Papal ruling inhumane.
Attempting to reply to all three comments...
1. What's your source on this? The reports I heard seemed to indicate that it would available very soon.
2. Seems like it would be a public health thing, available as needed without respect to cost.
3. I recall that being discussed here quite some time ago - a couple of years or more - I will try to look it up, I seem to recall that the discussion was somewhat nebulous, no one seeming to be sure of exactly what took place. I'll try to find it and reactivate the thread if possible.
But if it referred to requesting the pope to OK abortions, that would obviously be a "non-starter".
Added later: I did a little - and I mean JUST a little - research on the proposed vaccine - I didn't see any reference to "a decade", but several references to "several years". Some more recent claims, however, suggest possible progress, to the point of trials, by the end of this year.
2. And even if they did, would they be able to afford it, what with the prices the pahrmaceutical barons would place upon it.
3. Would you care to comment on the Seveso incident? I am *not* a Catholic basher but I did find that Papal ruling inhumane.
Attempting to reply to all three comments...
1. What's your source on this? The reports I heard seemed to indicate that it would available very soon.
2. Seems like it would be a public health thing, available as needed without respect to cost.
3. I recall that being discussed here quite some time ago - a couple of years or more - I will try to look it up, I seem to recall that the discussion was somewhat nebulous, no one seeming to be sure of exactly what took place. I'll try to find it and reactivate the thread if possible.
But if it referred to requesting the pope to OK abortions, that would obviously be a "non-starter".
Added later: I did a little - and I mean JUST a little - research on the proposed vaccine - I didn't see any reference to "a decade", but several references to "several years". Some more recent claims, however, suggest possible progress, to the point of trials, by the end of this year.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
FourPart;1492082 wrote: And even if they did, would they be able to afford it, what with the prices the pahrmaceutical barons would place upon it.
Likely this will become one of the public health emergency situations, and most, of not all nations will jump on the immunization bandwagon, Still, the way this thing seems to be spreading, it will have a lot of people in a panic very quickly. The Ebola outbreak, by comparison will seem mild.
Curious how this just seems to have cropped up recently.
Likely this will become one of the public health emergency situations, and most, of not all nations will jump on the immunization bandwagon, Still, the way this thing seems to be spreading, it will have a lot of people in a panic very quickly. The Ebola outbreak, by comparison will seem mild.
Curious how this just seems to have cropped up recently.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Had to go look it up.
It's been around since the 1940's it seems, but never left Africa until very recently.
Yet another of those diseases that probably should have received medical attention long ago, but was ignored until it threatened "The Civilized World" ??
what is zika virus
From the article:
Is there a vaccine? How should people protect themselves?
Protection is difficult in mosquito-infested regions.
There is no vaccine against the Zika virus. Efforts to make one have just begun, and creating and testing a vaccine normally takes years and costs hundreds of millions of dollars.
Because it is impossible to completely prevent mosquito bites, the C.D.C. has advised pregnant women to avoid going to regions where Zika is being transmitted, and has advised women thinking of becoming pregnant to consult doctors before going.
Travelers to these countries are advised to avoid or minimize mosquito bites by staying in screened or air-conditioned rooms or sleeping under mosquito nets, wearing insect repellent at all times and wearing long pants, long sleeves, shoes and hats.
It's been around since the 1940's it seems, but never left Africa until very recently.
Yet another of those diseases that probably should have received medical attention long ago, but was ignored until it threatened "The Civilized World" ??
what is zika virus
From the article:
Is there a vaccine? How should people protect themselves?
Protection is difficult in mosquito-infested regions.
There is no vaccine against the Zika virus. Efforts to make one have just begun, and creating and testing a vaccine normally takes years and costs hundreds of millions of dollars.
Because it is impossible to completely prevent mosquito bites, the C.D.C. has advised pregnant women to avoid going to regions where Zika is being transmitted, and has advised women thinking of becoming pregnant to consult doctors before going.
Travelers to these countries are advised to avoid or minimize mosquito bites by staying in screened or air-conditioned rooms or sleeping under mosquito nets, wearing insect repellent at all times and wearing long pants, long sleeves, shoes and hats.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Mark Aspam;1492071 wrote: Poster gmc never wastes an opportunity to slander the Catholic Church, an institution about which he knows very little.
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
It's rather hard to talk about issues like family planning in south america without mentioning the catholic church. If you have an issue with anything I post then by all means take issue with it this is after all a dicussion forum is you think the comment slanderous why do you think so. Slander is when you make a false statement with the intent of damaging someones reputation in what way is what I have said untrue?
Your comment is on the lines of the defence offered by the reigiouis to any criticism of their faith - you're just picking on us without any justification.
The attacks on planned parenthood and anti-abortion laws in the US have been instigated mainly by protestant christian fundamentalists (or so it seems) no doubt you will accuse me of slandering the protestants as well.
So it is an institution about which I know very little? OK then enlighten me.
posted by larsmac
Curious how this just seems to have cropped up recently.
It's spreading beyond south america and the 2016 olympics are in rio.
Posted by bryn mawr
Would you care to comment on the Seveso incident?
I am *not* a Catholic basher but I did find that Papal ruling inhumane.
neither am I - tell me how do you discuss anything about religion without bringing the catholic church in to it? I note it's not a charge (muslim basher) he has levied at those criticising islam - just saying:-3
My understanding is that a vaccine, made from the zika virus itself, can be given PRIOR to conception which will immunize the mother for life. Hopefully that will solve the problem worldwide.
It's rather hard to talk about issues like family planning in south america without mentioning the catholic church. If you have an issue with anything I post then by all means take issue with it this is after all a dicussion forum is you think the comment slanderous why do you think so. Slander is when you make a false statement with the intent of damaging someones reputation in what way is what I have said untrue?
Your comment is on the lines of the defence offered by the reigiouis to any criticism of their faith - you're just picking on us without any justification.
The attacks on planned parenthood and anti-abortion laws in the US have been instigated mainly by protestant christian fundamentalists (or so it seems) no doubt you will accuse me of slandering the protestants as well.
So it is an institution about which I know very little? OK then enlighten me.
posted by larsmac
Curious how this just seems to have cropped up recently.
It's spreading beyond south america and the 2016 olympics are in rio.
Posted by bryn mawr
Would you care to comment on the Seveso incident?
I am *not* a Catholic basher but I did find that Papal ruling inhumane.
neither am I - tell me how do you discuss anything about religion without bringing the catholic church in to it? I note it's not a charge (muslim basher) he has levied at those criticising islam - just saying:-3
Wonder what the church will do about this.
gmc;1492105 wrote: ...
posted by larsmac
It's spreading beyond south america and the 2016 Olympics are in Rio.
I am pretty certain that is bringing some focus to the thing, but statistically, it seems to have escalated dramatically in the last year.
International travel is going to bring several of these "tropical diseases" into the limelight. The medical community and particularly the immunology branch will be tested to it's limits this century, I think.
This could easily spread to anywhere in the world where Mosquitoes can thrive. (Which seems to be everywhere)
Back to the vaccine question, the bug, itself, causes relatively minor discomfort in most cases, and is not easy to positively identify.
Even if they come up with one, how would the vaccine affect pregnancy and fetal development? They don't even really know how the bug does that, yet. They just know that there is a causal relationship stemming from females being infected by the virus and being pregnant. And there are no real statistics available on the infection rate and rate of occurrence of the defect.
We simply haven't enough data, yet.
posted by larsmac
It's spreading beyond south america and the 2016 Olympics are in Rio.
I am pretty certain that is bringing some focus to the thing, but statistically, it seems to have escalated dramatically in the last year.
International travel is going to bring several of these "tropical diseases" into the limelight. The medical community and particularly the immunology branch will be tested to it's limits this century, I think.
This could easily spread to anywhere in the world where Mosquitoes can thrive. (Which seems to be everywhere)
Back to the vaccine question, the bug, itself, causes relatively minor discomfort in most cases, and is not easy to positively identify.
Even if they come up with one, how would the vaccine affect pregnancy and fetal development? They don't even really know how the bug does that, yet. They just know that there is a causal relationship stemming from females being infected by the virus and being pregnant. And there are no real statistics available on the infection rate and rate of occurrence of the defect.
We simply haven't enough data, yet.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Wonder what the church will do about this.
LarsMac;1492107 wrote: I am pretty certain that is bringing some focus to the thing, but statistically, it seems to have escalated dramatically in the last year.
International travel is going to bring several of these "tropical diseases" into the limelight. The medical community and particularly the immunology branch will be tested to it's limits this century, I think.
This could easily spread to anywhere in the world where Mosquitoes can thrive. (Which seems to be everywhere)
Back to the vaccine question, the bug, itself, causes relatively minor discomfort in most cases, and is not easy to positively identify.
Even if they come up with one, how would the vaccine affect pregnancy and fetal development? They don't even really know how the bug does that, yet. They just know that there is a causal relationship stemming from females being infected by the virus and being pregnant. And there are no real statistics available on the infection rate and rate of occurrence of the defect.
We simply haven't enough data, yet.
The trouble is that the CDC describe the symptoms as mild but then liken it to dengue fever which is a nasty and debilitating disease.
International travel is going to bring several of these "tropical diseases" into the limelight. The medical community and particularly the immunology branch will be tested to it's limits this century, I think.
This could easily spread to anywhere in the world where Mosquitoes can thrive. (Which seems to be everywhere)
Back to the vaccine question, the bug, itself, causes relatively minor discomfort in most cases, and is not easy to positively identify.
Even if they come up with one, how would the vaccine affect pregnancy and fetal development? They don't even really know how the bug does that, yet. They just know that there is a causal relationship stemming from females being infected by the virus and being pregnant. And there are no real statistics available on the infection rate and rate of occurrence of the defect.
We simply haven't enough data, yet.
The trouble is that the CDC describe the symptoms as mild but then liken it to dengue fever which is a nasty and debilitating disease.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Well, the symptoms appear to be quite similar to Dengue, but relatively mild.
Even Dengue apparently has multiple strains. How do health Care Workers identify which bug has infected the patient? at this time a blood test sent to a lab for processing is the only method, and the lab results, even in idea conditions takes days.
And this particular bug only seems to be unique because of the microcephaly link, which has yet to actually been completely proven. The first task for health workers in to find a way to rapidly identify the thing, and to identify at what stage the bug affects fetal development.
The only real final solution appears to be to eliminate the possibility of mosquito bites.
Back to the OP. does the Catholic Church declare that using birth control to avoid "accidental pregnancy" while in the mosquito-infested regions is OK?
Does the Church declare the affected children a new Gift from God? And who will the majority of the Faithful listen to; The Church? or the WHO?
Even Dengue apparently has multiple strains. How do health Care Workers identify which bug has infected the patient? at this time a blood test sent to a lab for processing is the only method, and the lab results, even in idea conditions takes days.
And this particular bug only seems to be unique because of the microcephaly link, which has yet to actually been completely proven. The first task for health workers in to find a way to rapidly identify the thing, and to identify at what stage the bug affects fetal development.
The only real final solution appears to be to eliminate the possibility of mosquito bites.
Back to the OP. does the Catholic Church declare that using birth control to avoid "accidental pregnancy" while in the mosquito-infested regions is OK?
Does the Church declare the affected children a new Gift from God? And who will the majority of the Faithful listen to; The Church? or the WHO?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Wonder what the church will do about this.
posted by larsmac
Back to the OP. does the Catholic Church declare that using birth control to avoid "accidental pregnancy" while in the mosquito-infested regions is OK?
Does the Church declare the affected children a new Gift from God? And who will the majority of the Faithful listen to; The Church? or the WHO?
But if you don't follow the church's teaching you go to hell it's amortal sin to procure or carry out an abortion and can lead to excommunication also carrying out an abortion is illegal (except for some circumstmces like saving the life of the mother).
It's a dilemma they (the catholic church that is) are going to have to face up to sooner rather than later. Fearing etarnal damnation what do you think the mainly male policy makers will do? Is it god's will if a pregnancy could be avoided but the means to do so was not allowed?
In the US fundamentalists have persuaded themselves that the contraceptive pill and the morning after pill are abortifacients therefore that take action to prevent access to it. It's an old question should the religious have the right to interfere in people's decision making the way they do maybe something like this will bring home why separtion of church and state is essential for rational decision making. Guess what I think. We have the same problems here politicians tend to pander to the religious lobby
Back to the OP. does the Catholic Church declare that using birth control to avoid "accidental pregnancy" while in the mosquito-infested regions is OK?
Does the Church declare the affected children a new Gift from God? And who will the majority of the Faithful listen to; The Church? or the WHO?
But if you don't follow the church's teaching you go to hell it's amortal sin to procure or carry out an abortion and can lead to excommunication also carrying out an abortion is illegal (except for some circumstmces like saving the life of the mother).
It's a dilemma they (the catholic church that is) are going to have to face up to sooner rather than later. Fearing etarnal damnation what do you think the mainly male policy makers will do? Is it god's will if a pregnancy could be avoided but the means to do so was not allowed?
In the US fundamentalists have persuaded themselves that the contraceptive pill and the morning after pill are abortifacients therefore that take action to prevent access to it. It's an old question should the religious have the right to interfere in people's decision making the way they do maybe something like this will bring home why separtion of church and state is essential for rational decision making. Guess what I think. We have the same problems here politicians tend to pander to the religious lobby
Wonder what the church will do about this.
It seems to me that the Catholic Church seems to be overly concerned about sex & sexuality, but at the same time has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL. Their hypocrisy in the matter is beyond belief. They consider masturbation to be a sin, as it is supposed to be a reference to Onan, yet if you read the story of Onan it was, in fact, a matter of his withdrawing in order to prevent the impregnation of his Brother's Widow (where had been his duty to father an heir for his brother). However, withdrawal is the only form of contraception approved of by the Catholics.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
FourPart;1492212 wrote: It seems to me that the Catholic Church seems to be overly concerned about sex & sexuality, but at the same time has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL. Their hypocrisy in the matter is beyond belief. They consider masturbation to be a sin, as it is supposed to be a reference to Onan, yet if you read the story of Onan it was, in fact, a matter of his withdrawing in order to prevent the impregnation of his Brother's Widow (where had been his duty to father an heir for his brother). However, withdrawal is the only form of contraception approved of by the Catholics.
Actually not just catholics it sems religious fundamentalists of every sort have a prurient interest in what their followers are up to.
Actually not just catholics it sems religious fundamentalists of every sort have a prurient interest in what their followers are up to.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Perhaps that vaccine won't take as long as we thought:
Indian Scientists Develop World’s First Zika Vaccine
Days after a German biotech company debuted the world’s first diagnostic test for the rapidly spreading mosquito-borne Zika virus, an Indian pharmaceutical manufacturer, Bharat Biotech, announced that in two weeks it will start pre-clinical trials for the first-ever Zika vaccine candidate.
Indian Scientists Develop World’s First Zika Vaccine
Days after a German biotech company debuted the world’s first diagnostic test for the rapidly spreading mosquito-borne Zika virus, an Indian pharmaceutical manufacturer, Bharat Biotech, announced that in two weeks it will start pre-clinical trials for the first-ever Zika vaccine candidate.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
FourPart;1492212 wrote: 1. It seems to me that the Catholic Church seems to be overly concerned about sex & sexuality, but at the same time has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL.
2. Their hypocrisy in the matter is beyond belief. They consider masturbation to be a sin, as it is supposed to be a reference to Onan, yet if you read the story of Onan it was, in fact, a matter of his withdrawing in order to prevent the impregnation of his Brother's Widow (where had been his duty to father an heir for his brother).
3. However, withdrawal is the only form of contraception approved of by the Catholics.Four, with nonsense like that, you just might crowd gmc out as Catholic basher number one. I'm not interested in wasting much of my time to refute nonsense, but let's just take them BRIEFLY, one at a time.
1. And your source for that is what? Jehovah's Witnesses, ALL of whom are clergy by definition, have files on - according to reports I have read that seem to be reputable, and possibly even admitted by the org itself, around 25,000 records of such criminal conduct, which they refuse to release, citing ecclesiastical privilege.
Also, it's very unlikely that many of the priests so convicted have remained active priests. So that kinda negates your stats. Whether the 25,000 JW's were similarly excommunicated I dunno.
2. As a non-protestant, I'm not familiar with the protestant approach to sexual impurity, I suspect that in most cases it's not that different from the RC. The biblical story of Onan and why he was punished is well-known, in 11 years of Catholic education, I can't remember ever having heard it cited in connection with casual masturbation.
3. Nowadays the RCC leaves that pretty much up to the couple's consciences. I have not heard the subject addressed from the pulpit or in Catholic literature for quite awhile. It seems, oddly, to be more of interest to Catholic-bashers like yourself than to the average Catholic couple. (With regard to abortion, the Church's position remains steadfast, as would be expected.)
But this is way off the subject of the thread.
P.S. Interesting that the Catholic bashers almost always refuse to name their own religious affiliation. Wonder why that is.
Added later: Thanks to poster LarsMac for the update on a possible vaccine in the near future!
2. Their hypocrisy in the matter is beyond belief. They consider masturbation to be a sin, as it is supposed to be a reference to Onan, yet if you read the story of Onan it was, in fact, a matter of his withdrawing in order to prevent the impregnation of his Brother's Widow (where had been his duty to father an heir for his brother).
3. However, withdrawal is the only form of contraception approved of by the Catholics.Four, with nonsense like that, you just might crowd gmc out as Catholic basher number one. I'm not interested in wasting much of my time to refute nonsense, but let's just take them BRIEFLY, one at a time.
1. And your source for that is what? Jehovah's Witnesses, ALL of whom are clergy by definition, have files on - according to reports I have read that seem to be reputable, and possibly even admitted by the org itself, around 25,000 records of such criminal conduct, which they refuse to release, citing ecclesiastical privilege.
Also, it's very unlikely that many of the priests so convicted have remained active priests. So that kinda negates your stats. Whether the 25,000 JW's were similarly excommunicated I dunno.
2. As a non-protestant, I'm not familiar with the protestant approach to sexual impurity, I suspect that in most cases it's not that different from the RC. The biblical story of Onan and why he was punished is well-known, in 11 years of Catholic education, I can't remember ever having heard it cited in connection with casual masturbation.
3. Nowadays the RCC leaves that pretty much up to the couple's consciences. I have not heard the subject addressed from the pulpit or in Catholic literature for quite awhile. It seems, oddly, to be more of interest to Catholic-bashers like yourself than to the average Catholic couple. (With regard to abortion, the Church's position remains steadfast, as would be expected.)
But this is way off the subject of the thread.
P.S. Interesting that the Catholic bashers almost always refuse to name their own religious affiliation. Wonder why that is.
Added later: Thanks to poster LarsMac for the update on a possible vaccine in the near future!
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Four, with nonsense like that, you just might crowd gmc out as Catholic basher number one. I'm not interested in wasting much of my time to refute nonsense, but let's just take them BRIEFLY, one at a time.
1. And your source for that is what? Jehovah's Witnesses, ALL of whom are clergy by definition, have files on - according to reports I have read that seem to be reputable, and possibly even admitted by the org itself, around 25,000 records of such criminal conduct, which they refuse to release, citing ecclesiastical privilege.
Also, it's very unlikely that many of the priests so convicted have remained active priests. So that kinda negates your stats. Whether the 25,000 JW's were similarly excommunicated I dunno.
What a defence We're not as bad as the jehovah's witnesses!! Please give the name of just ONE priest of the catholic church that has been excommunicated for molesting a child. Come to that can you name any priests that have been convicted of the offence of child molestation whose punishment by the catholic church has not been to be protected by them and in many cases moved to other parishes wh
I would criticise the jehovah's witnesses as much as I would the catholic church come to tghat i donlt think very much of any of the religions we have to put up with. . However they are a minority protestant sect whose influence is consideraby lss than that of the catholic church and so far as I am aware thre are no members or if there are very few in number in the south american countries affected by this outbreak and even of there are I suspect you will find using contraceptives is not a sin in their doctrine.
2. As a non-protestant, I'm not familiar with the protestant approach to sexual impurity, I suspect that in most cases it's not that different from the RC. The biblical story of Onan and why he was punished is well-known, in 11 years of Catholic education, I can't remember ever having heard it cited in connection with casual masturbation.
Depends which sect you are taklking about some are incredibly prurient some are not.
3. Nowadays the RCC leaves that pretty much up to the couple's consciences. I have not heard the subject addressed from the pulpit or in Catholic literature for quite awhile. It seems, oddly, to be more of interest to Catholic-bashers like yourself than to the average Catholic couple. (With regard to abortion, the Church's position remains steadfast, as would be expected.)
But this is way off the subject of the thread.
Except in countries like columbia the poor still cannot readily get access to contraceptives and abortion is still criminal. They're going to have to be a wee bit more proactive
P.S. Interesting that the Catholic bashers almost always refuse to name their own religious affiliation. Wonder why that is.
Catholic bashers? If you have an objection to the factual content by all means object but don't bleat that no one should say anything in criticism. On the face of it this looks like a virus that may have a widespread affect. Like aids in africa what the catholic church does will affect millions. I don't believe hte pope is infallible sadly many do.
Catholicism is one of the biggest christianm churches it's impossible to talk about these issues without bring them in to it. If you don't like it don't read the posts. I usuallly ignore th posts in the rleigious section as they seem to consist mainly of people copyng and pasting large sectiions of books they haven't bothered to read.
Don't see what relevance ithas but I'm an atheist. Religion hides and tries to deflect criticism by claiming that somehow their religious belief should be sacrosanct. Believe what you like but when christian, muslim jewish, scientoligists or whatever religion you care to follow choose and use their influence to affect the way society runs to it's detriment it must be open to criticism. Don't pick on me I am above citicism because it's religious belief is just not on. We are expected to turn a blind eye to female genital mutilation (and male come to that) teachthe fantasy of creationism in schools instead of volution as if it is a reasonable alternative, accept homophobia is njustified because the bible tells it so and religioius bigotry perpetuated in seperate schools. We have people of faith demanding special rights an pivilege and to be above secular law right now it's like a tide of religious darkness is threatening to come back and destroy the world. Religion is a major issue in american politics to the detriment of civil society.
When christianity ruled in europe they called it the dark ages the enlightenment came against a background of the most vile atrocities commited by the church to try and silence those who dissented that instinct io suppress and control is still there just ask someone living under isis what they think about religious freedom and the right to dissent. So if you are not happy with catholic bashers and prefer to see it as that rather than as legitimate citicism that's fine by me as a secularist I doin't care what you on an individual level.
1. And your source for that is what? Jehovah's Witnesses, ALL of whom are clergy by definition, have files on - according to reports I have read that seem to be reputable, and possibly even admitted by the org itself, around 25,000 records of such criminal conduct, which they refuse to release, citing ecclesiastical privilege.
Also, it's very unlikely that many of the priests so convicted have remained active priests. So that kinda negates your stats. Whether the 25,000 JW's were similarly excommunicated I dunno.
What a defence We're not as bad as the jehovah's witnesses!! Please give the name of just ONE priest of the catholic church that has been excommunicated for molesting a child. Come to that can you name any priests that have been convicted of the offence of child molestation whose punishment by the catholic church has not been to be protected by them and in many cases moved to other parishes wh
I would criticise the jehovah's witnesses as much as I would the catholic church come to tghat i donlt think very much of any of the religions we have to put up with. . However they are a minority protestant sect whose influence is consideraby lss than that of the catholic church and so far as I am aware thre are no members or if there are very few in number in the south american countries affected by this outbreak and even of there are I suspect you will find using contraceptives is not a sin in their doctrine.
2. As a non-protestant, I'm not familiar with the protestant approach to sexual impurity, I suspect that in most cases it's not that different from the RC. The biblical story of Onan and why he was punished is well-known, in 11 years of Catholic education, I can't remember ever having heard it cited in connection with casual masturbation.
Depends which sect you are taklking about some are incredibly prurient some are not.
3. Nowadays the RCC leaves that pretty much up to the couple's consciences. I have not heard the subject addressed from the pulpit or in Catholic literature for quite awhile. It seems, oddly, to be more of interest to Catholic-bashers like yourself than to the average Catholic couple. (With regard to abortion, the Church's position remains steadfast, as would be expected.)
But this is way off the subject of the thread.
Except in countries like columbia the poor still cannot readily get access to contraceptives and abortion is still criminal. They're going to have to be a wee bit more proactive
P.S. Interesting that the Catholic bashers almost always refuse to name their own religious affiliation. Wonder why that is.
Catholic bashers? If you have an objection to the factual content by all means object but don't bleat that no one should say anything in criticism. On the face of it this looks like a virus that may have a widespread affect. Like aids in africa what the catholic church does will affect millions. I don't believe hte pope is infallible sadly many do.
Catholicism is one of the biggest christianm churches it's impossible to talk about these issues without bring them in to it. If you don't like it don't read the posts. I usuallly ignore th posts in the rleigious section as they seem to consist mainly of people copyng and pasting large sectiions of books they haven't bothered to read.
Don't see what relevance ithas but I'm an atheist. Religion hides and tries to deflect criticism by claiming that somehow their religious belief should be sacrosanct. Believe what you like but when christian, muslim jewish, scientoligists or whatever religion you care to follow choose and use their influence to affect the way society runs to it's detriment it must be open to criticism. Don't pick on me I am above citicism because it's religious belief is just not on. We are expected to turn a blind eye to female genital mutilation (and male come to that) teachthe fantasy of creationism in schools instead of volution as if it is a reasonable alternative, accept homophobia is njustified because the bible tells it so and religioius bigotry perpetuated in seperate schools. We have people of faith demanding special rights an pivilege and to be above secular law right now it's like a tide of religious darkness is threatening to come back and destroy the world. Religion is a major issue in american politics to the detriment of civil society.
When christianity ruled in europe they called it the dark ages the enlightenment came against a background of the most vile atrocities commited by the church to try and silence those who dissented that instinct io suppress and control is still there just ask someone living under isis what they think about religious freedom and the right to dissent. So if you are not happy with catholic bashers and prefer to see it as that rather than as legitimate citicism that's fine by me as a secularist I doin't care what you on an individual level.
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
I'll reply to gmc shortly.
Right now, though, I must amend a previous claim. I'm pretty sure that the number of JW's known to have admitted to child sexual abuse is somewhere around 2500, not 25,000. I'm trying to find the info online and will name the source if found, and assuming that the 2500 figure is correct, I apologize to the JWs and to the other posters here.
Right now, though, I must amend a previous claim. I'm pretty sure that the number of JW's known to have admitted to child sexual abuse is somewhere around 2500, not 25,000. I'm trying to find the info online and will name the source if found, and assuming that the 2500 figure is correct, I apologize to the JWs and to the other posters here.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Mark Aspam;1492405 wrote: I'll reply to gmc shortly.
Right now, though, I must amend a previous claim. I'm pretty sure that the number of JW's known to have admitted to child sexual abuse is somewhere around 2500, not 25,000. I'm trying to find the info online and will name the source if found, and assuming that the 2500 figure is correct, I apologize to the JWs and to the other posters here.
Who cares how many it is even if it was 25,000 It's a crap defence - I know we'te guilty but they're at it as well. Come on. They're all at it including moslem imams and jewish rabbis all hiding behind the cloth and not in a nice wizard of oz way. It's the hypocrisy and cover ups and sense of entitlement to special consideration that is really shocking
Right now, though, I must amend a previous claim. I'm pretty sure that the number of JW's known to have admitted to child sexual abuse is somewhere around 2500, not 25,000. I'm trying to find the info online and will name the source if found, and assuming that the 2500 figure is correct, I apologize to the JWs and to the other posters here.
Who cares how many it is even if it was 25,000 It's a crap defence - I know we'te guilty but they're at it as well. Come on. They're all at it including moslem imams and jewish rabbis all hiding behind the cloth and not in a nice wizard of oz way. It's the hypocrisy and cover ups and sense of entitlement to special consideration that is really shocking
Wonder what the church will do about this.
There are far too many people in the world. Nature has, in the past, introduced a disease which the human race called Ebola. Nature's way of trimming down the population ? However, a vaccine was found by humans and the Ebola disease was stopped. Nature had failed to reduce the population by a sufficient amount.
Nature knows that there will not be enough food, soon, for the survival of existing numbers of humans, so numbers must be reduced drastically and fairly quicky. Nature has introduced another disease which we call Zika and it is spread by mosquitoes, although there are thoughts that it could be spread by sexual contact or bodily fluids one person to another.
If a vaccine is discovered for Zika virus and the reduction in human births is not stopped, then it is certain that Nature will take further action until the human race is at a more sensible and manageable level. There is a possibility that Nature would introduce a way to start a world war that would definitely reduce the human race considerably. Nature is a wonderful thing, and Nature should not be 'messed' with because Nature will always find a way to balance things.
Have you noticed how a tree will deliberately throw off a perfectly healthy branch to balance itself, when a rotten branch on the opposing side of the tree has naturally fallen off ? That is how Nature deals with problems in order to keep the fragile balance.
It has absolutely nothing to do with any religion. It is Nature, and Nature has been here an awful lot longer than any religion. If, by your religious beliefs, humans are not allowed to terminate or prevent the increase in human numbers, then Nature will take a hand you can be sure of that. If we do not take steps to reduce the population ourselves, Nature will do it for us.
I will allow you to call me a crank if you must, in order to help you come to terms with your consciences, but hopefully the human race will acknowledge the power and determination of Nature and come to a realisation of what is happening and why.
Nature knows that there will not be enough food, soon, for the survival of existing numbers of humans, so numbers must be reduced drastically and fairly quicky. Nature has introduced another disease which we call Zika and it is spread by mosquitoes, although there are thoughts that it could be spread by sexual contact or bodily fluids one person to another.
If a vaccine is discovered for Zika virus and the reduction in human births is not stopped, then it is certain that Nature will take further action until the human race is at a more sensible and manageable level. There is a possibility that Nature would introduce a way to start a world war that would definitely reduce the human race considerably. Nature is a wonderful thing, and Nature should not be 'messed' with because Nature will always find a way to balance things.
Have you noticed how a tree will deliberately throw off a perfectly healthy branch to balance itself, when a rotten branch on the opposing side of the tree has naturally fallen off ? That is how Nature deals with problems in order to keep the fragile balance.
It has absolutely nothing to do with any religion. It is Nature, and Nature has been here an awful lot longer than any religion. If, by your religious beliefs, humans are not allowed to terminate or prevent the increase in human numbers, then Nature will take a hand you can be sure of that. If we do not take steps to reduce the population ourselves, Nature will do it for us.
I will allow you to call me a crank if you must, in order to help you come to terms with your consciences, but hopefully the human race will acknowledge the power and determination of Nature and come to a realisation of what is happening and why.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
gmc;1492406 wrote: Who cares how many it is even if it was 25,000 It's a crap defence - I know we'te guilty but they're at it as well. Come on. They're all at it including moslem imams and jewish rabbis all hiding behind the cloth and not in a nice wizard of oz way. It's the hypocrisy and cover ups and sense of entitlement to special consideration that is really shockingg, it's not a matter of defense but of calling bullsh*t what it is.
The other poster stated ",,,the Catholic Church...has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL."
That is absolute garbage, if anything the RCC has had, percentagewise, probably LESS child abuse than LOTS of other sects worldwide, I won't go into the trafficking of young boys among the Islamic clergy because I don't want this forum to be a target like Charlie Hebdo. But the real difference is that in most of Christianity, not just Catholicism, child sexual abuse is an outrage, and treated as such, rather than a fact of life.
Now, with regard to your own most recent post, I appreciate your frankness and testimony. I know lots of atheists and agnostics. In fact, I would probably be classified as agnostic myself.
The difference is that I have never known any of those acquaintances to display what seems to be your absolute RAGE that there are actually people who believe in a higher power.
Also, do I recall correctly that you are the poster who insists that Catholics worship statues? If so, that has to be one of the silliest claims I've ever encountered, here or elsewhere.
If you want SERIOUS criticism of the RCC, I can provide plenty. None of it will involve statues, which remind us - not just Catholics - of Christianity's great heroes and heroines.
The other poster stated ",,,the Catholic Church...has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL."
That is absolute garbage, if anything the RCC has had, percentagewise, probably LESS child abuse than LOTS of other sects worldwide, I won't go into the trafficking of young boys among the Islamic clergy because I don't want this forum to be a target like Charlie Hebdo. But the real difference is that in most of Christianity, not just Catholicism, child sexual abuse is an outrage, and treated as such, rather than a fact of life.
Now, with regard to your own most recent post, I appreciate your frankness and testimony. I know lots of atheists and agnostics. In fact, I would probably be classified as agnostic myself.
The difference is that I have never known any of those acquaintances to display what seems to be your absolute RAGE that there are actually people who believe in a higher power.
Also, do I recall correctly that you are the poster who insists that Catholics worship statues? If so, that has to be one of the silliest claims I've ever encountered, here or elsewhere.
If you want SERIOUS criticism of the RCC, I can provide plenty. None of it will involve statues, which remind us - not just Catholics - of Christianity's great heroes and heroines.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
If you Google Sex Crimes among Clergy, there is no shortage of cases regarding the Catholic Priesthood. For instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_ ... buse_cases
Yet I don't find much in the way of JWs anywhere. Per capita, Catholics are also the largest Christian denomination there is. There have also been a great number of complaints about known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_ ... buse_cases
Yet I don't find much in the way of JWs anywhere. Per capita, Catholics are also the largest Christian denomination there is. There have also been a great number of complaints about known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican.
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
FourPart;1492481 wrote: If you Google Sex Crimes among Clergy, there is no shortage of cases regarding the Catholic Priesthood. For instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_ ... buse_cases
Yet I don't find much in the way of JWs anywhere. Per capita, Catholics are also the largest Christian denomination there is. There have also been a great number of complaints about known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican.I didn't claim that there was a shortage, one is too many, I only challenged your claim that abuse claims against Catholic priests were greater than all other religions combined. That is an outrageous claim, nor have I ever found such a claim elsewhere, I suspect that it is something that you either (1) made up or (2) found on an anti-Catholic website of some kind.
I might also add that what the Catholic-bashers never acknowledge is that a large percentage of such claims are found by the courts to be false, or at least without judicial merit. Let's take a peek at THOSE figures.
You are correct that Catholics are the largest Christian denom, by far, around one billion worldwide. They must know something that the various "reformed" Christians don't
Added later: Regarding "known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican", that is something I've never heard before, so I can't deny it, but I'm skeptical because it just doesn't seem logical. If the priest is guilty, I would think that the pope would want him prosecuted and be done with him. That would certainly be my attitude if I were pope! BUT - if the accused priest were known to be innocent, and perhaps from a country known for 'kangaroo' courts, that would be different, in that case I can understand the protection.
But this is still WAY off the subject of the thread. Let's try to get back to the virus and how it is being handled. I'll gladly discuss religion with you elsewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_ ... buse_cases
Yet I don't find much in the way of JWs anywhere. Per capita, Catholics are also the largest Christian denomination there is. There have also been a great number of complaints about known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican.I didn't claim that there was a shortage, one is too many, I only challenged your claim that abuse claims against Catholic priests were greater than all other religions combined. That is an outrageous claim, nor have I ever found such a claim elsewhere, I suspect that it is something that you either (1) made up or (2) found on an anti-Catholic website of some kind.
I might also add that what the Catholic-bashers never acknowledge is that a large percentage of such claims are found by the courts to be false, or at least without judicial merit. Let's take a peek at THOSE figures.
You are correct that Catholics are the largest Christian denom, by far, around one billion worldwide. They must know something that the various "reformed" Christians don't
Added later: Regarding "known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican", that is something I've never heard before, so I can't deny it, but I'm skeptical because it just doesn't seem logical. If the priest is guilty, I would think that the pope would want him prosecuted and be done with him. That would certainly be my attitude if I were pope! BUT - if the accused priest were known to be innocent, and perhaps from a country known for 'kangaroo' courts, that would be different, in that case I can understand the protection.
But this is still WAY off the subject of the thread. Let's try to get back to the virus and how it is being handled. I'll gladly discuss religion with you elsewhere.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
it's not a matter of defense but of calling bullsh*t what it is.
The other poster stated ",,,the Catholic Church...has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL."
That is absolute garbage, if anything the RCC has had, percentagewise, probably LESS child abuse than LOTS of other sects worldwide, I won't go into the trafficking of young boys among the Islamic clergy because I don't want this forum to be a target like Charlie Hebdo. But the real difference is that in most of Christianity, not just Catholicism, child sexual abuse is an outrage, and treated as such, rather than a fact of life.
Who cares? We're not as bad as the rest is a crap defence. Also since we're on the subject the catholic establishment acted to protect not the children but the priests and the reputation of the catholic church.
But the real difference is that in most of Christianity, not just Catholicism, child sexual abuse is an outrage, and treated as such, rather than a fact of life
Child victims partly to blame in priest sex-abuse cases, Syracuse bishop testified | syracuse.com
Child victims partly to blame in priest sex-abuse cases, Syracuse bishop testified
The man's lawyer asked Cunningham whether, in the eyes of the church, a child molested by a priest has committed a sin.
"The boy is culpable," Cunningham said Oct. 14, 2011, according to a transcript of the deposition.
Several of your bishops are on record of complaining about the allegations of sex abuse being prompted by a desire to attack the cathiolic church rather than being a desire for justice.
Now, with regard to your own most recent post, I appreciate your frankness and testimony. I know lots of atheists and agnostics. In fact, I would probably be classified as agnostic myself.
The difference is that I have never known any of those acquaintances to display what seems to be your absolute RAGE that there are actually people who believe in a higher power.
You're making a very good attempt at dodging the intent of my original post which was to prompt a debate on what the church is goiung to have to do to deal with the zika virus. In particular should it rethink it's stance on access to contraceptives and abortion. It was not about thoise wo beklieve in another power buit rather about an organisation whose grip on people's lives can justifiably be described as bakeful. In the US of A I would say the same charge could be levelled at christian fundamentalists who are in the mainh non catholic and whose concerted attacks on planned parenthood should be abhoorrent to any reasonable person. If you don't want to use birth control that is your choice if you deprive everybody of the ability to make that choice because of your faith and having the power to do so is religious oppression however you want to excuse it.
Also, do I recall correctly that you are the poster who insists that Catholics worship statues? If so, that has to be one of the silliest claims I've ever encountered, here or elsewhere.
No it wasn't. But you are are aware are you not the protestants and catholics have different versions of the ten commandments? The veneration of saints and relics by the cathiolic church is arguably a form of idolatory and is one of the main bones of ointention beteen catholicism and protestantism as a devouit catholicI wouldn have expected you yto mknow that. Specifically
Thou shalt not make unto thee any [QUOTE]graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
However it is irrelevant, It's a stupid thing to argue about and the difference between consubstantiation and transubstantiation is more entertaining and beggars belef that anyone can take such things seriously. If you want a discussion about atheism take it to another thread, that might be interesting if you can mange to get it through your head any discussion would not be personal. I don't know you and we are not likely to meet. Faith is not logical if it was you wouldn't need faith.
If you want SERIOUS criticism of the RCC, I can provide plenty. None of it will involve statues, which remind us - not just Catholics - of Christianity's great heroes and heroines.
No I don't I don't actually care. If I need to know what is wrong with the catholic church I just need to look at the orange lodge website. I did once ask an orangeman if a flute band was not a bit girly but on learning they have no sense of humour I have not not repeated the question.
The other poster stated ",,,the Catholic Church...has, by far, the highest rate of sex criminals amongst its clergy that any other - most probably more than all the others IN TOTAL."
That is absolute garbage, if anything the RCC has had, percentagewise, probably LESS child abuse than LOTS of other sects worldwide, I won't go into the trafficking of young boys among the Islamic clergy because I don't want this forum to be a target like Charlie Hebdo. But the real difference is that in most of Christianity, not just Catholicism, child sexual abuse is an outrage, and treated as such, rather than a fact of life.
Who cares? We're not as bad as the rest is a crap defence. Also since we're on the subject the catholic establishment acted to protect not the children but the priests and the reputation of the catholic church.
But the real difference is that in most of Christianity, not just Catholicism, child sexual abuse is an outrage, and treated as such, rather than a fact of life
Child victims partly to blame in priest sex-abuse cases, Syracuse bishop testified | syracuse.com
Child victims partly to blame in priest sex-abuse cases, Syracuse bishop testified
The man's lawyer asked Cunningham whether, in the eyes of the church, a child molested by a priest has committed a sin.
"The boy is culpable," Cunningham said Oct. 14, 2011, according to a transcript of the deposition.
Several of your bishops are on record of complaining about the allegations of sex abuse being prompted by a desire to attack the cathiolic church rather than being a desire for justice.
Now, with regard to your own most recent post, I appreciate your frankness and testimony. I know lots of atheists and agnostics. In fact, I would probably be classified as agnostic myself.
The difference is that I have never known any of those acquaintances to display what seems to be your absolute RAGE that there are actually people who believe in a higher power.
You're making a very good attempt at dodging the intent of my original post which was to prompt a debate on what the church is goiung to have to do to deal with the zika virus. In particular should it rethink it's stance on access to contraceptives and abortion. It was not about thoise wo beklieve in another power buit rather about an organisation whose grip on people's lives can justifiably be described as bakeful. In the US of A I would say the same charge could be levelled at christian fundamentalists who are in the mainh non catholic and whose concerted attacks on planned parenthood should be abhoorrent to any reasonable person. If you don't want to use birth control that is your choice if you deprive everybody of the ability to make that choice because of your faith and having the power to do so is religious oppression however you want to excuse it.
Also, do I recall correctly that you are the poster who insists that Catholics worship statues? If so, that has to be one of the silliest claims I've ever encountered, here or elsewhere.
No it wasn't. But you are are aware are you not the protestants and catholics have different versions of the ten commandments? The veneration of saints and relics by the cathiolic church is arguably a form of idolatory and is one of the main bones of ointention beteen catholicism and protestantism as a devouit catholicI wouldn have expected you yto mknow that. Specifically
Thou shalt not make unto thee any [QUOTE]graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
However it is irrelevant, It's a stupid thing to argue about and the difference between consubstantiation and transubstantiation is more entertaining and beggars belef that anyone can take such things seriously. If you want a discussion about atheism take it to another thread, that might be interesting if you can mange to get it through your head any discussion would not be personal. I don't know you and we are not likely to meet. Faith is not logical if it was you wouldn't need faith.
If you want SERIOUS criticism of the RCC, I can provide plenty. None of it will involve statues, which remind us - not just Catholics - of Christianity's great heroes and heroines.
No I don't I don't actually care. If I need to know what is wrong with the catholic church I just need to look at the orange lodge website. I did once ask an orangeman if a flute band was not a bit girly but on learning they have no sense of humour I have not not repeated the question.
-
Mark Aspam
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 am
Wonder what the church will do about this.
gmc;1492505 wrote: Who cares? We're not as bad as the rest is a crap defence. Also since we're on the subject the catholic establishment acted to protect not the children but the priests and the reputation of the catholic church. blah blah blah...I'm going to carry this over to a different thread because it's clearly out of place here.
Wonder what the church will do about this.
Mark Aspam;1492501 wrote: I didn't claim that there was a shortage, one is too many, I only challenged your claim that abuse claims against Catholic priests were greater than all other religions combined. That is an outrageous claim, nor have I ever found such a claim elsewhere, I suspect that it is something that you either (1) made up or (2) found on an anti-Catholic website of some kind.
I might also add that what the Catholic-bashers never acknowledge is that a large percentage of such claims are found by the courts to be false, or at least without judicial merit. Let's take a peek at THOSE figures.
You are correct that Catholics are the largest Christian denom, by far, around one billion worldwide. They must know something that the various "reformed" Christians don't
Added later: Regarding "known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican", that is something I've never heard before, so I can't deny it, but I'm skeptical because it just doesn't seem logical. If the priest is guilty, I would think that the pope would want him prosecuted and be done with him. That would certainly be my attitude if I were pope! BUT - if the accused priest were known to be innocent, and perhaps from a country known for 'kangaroo' courts, that would be different, in that case I can understand the protection.
But this is still WAY off the subject of the thread. Let's try to get back to the virus and how it is being handled. I'll gladly discuss religion with you elsewhere.
I certainly is not just the Catholic Church but it is clear that "The Establishment" routinely covered up cases and allowed the clergy involved to continue in their post. The link is a case covered up in 1993 that is only just coming to light :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35631415
I might also add that what the Catholic-bashers never acknowledge is that a large percentage of such claims are found by the courts to be false, or at least without judicial merit. Let's take a peek at THOSE figures.
You are correct that Catholics are the largest Christian denom, by far, around one billion worldwide. They must know something that the various "reformed" Christians don't
Added later: Regarding "known child abusing priests being given sanctuary within the Vatican", that is something I've never heard before, so I can't deny it, but I'm skeptical because it just doesn't seem logical. If the priest is guilty, I would think that the pope would want him prosecuted and be done with him. That would certainly be my attitude if I were pope! BUT - if the accused priest were known to be innocent, and perhaps from a country known for 'kangaroo' courts, that would be different, in that case I can understand the protection.
But this is still WAY off the subject of the thread. Let's try to get back to the virus and how it is being handled. I'll gladly discuss religion with you elsewhere.
I certainly is not just the Catholic Church but it is clear that "The Establishment" routinely covered up cases and allowed the clergy involved to continue in their post. The link is a case covered up in 1993 that is only just coming to light :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35631415
Wonder what the church will do about this.
So the Pope has suggested that some leniency on the birth control question my be in order due to the concerns around Zika Virus outbreak.
Though, some of the research seems to suggest that the Microcepaly may be more a result of the insecticides being used to combat mosquito infestation.
Though, some of the research seems to suggest that the Microcepaly may be more a result of the insecticides being used to combat mosquito infestation.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence