Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan's test of man's morality.

Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:34 pm

Jesus and his sacrifice are Satan’s test of man’s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesus’s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satan’s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:07 pm

One non-entity cannot test another non-entity.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:57 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1490523 wrote: Jesus and his sacrifice are Satanï¿½s test of manï¿½s morality.

Justice is when the guilty is punished. Injustice is when the innocent is punished.

Jesus, if you accept him as your savior, is you punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most, perhaps all Christians believe the dogma that says that it is good to accept Jesusï¿½s sacrifice.

That is exactly like saying that it is good to somehow gain from punishing an innocent man.

If you believe the Christian dogma of substitutionary atonement, then you pass Satanï¿½s test and are ready for hell.

Are you ready?

Regards

DL

Sure, I'm ready. I've been ready for hell from the day I was born. My parents didn't force any kind of belief system on me. I was lucky to be able to make up my own mind. Common sense beats brainwashing any day.

Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:20 pm

FourPart;1490631 wrote: One non-entity cannot test another non-entity.

So called believers are entities.

Regards

DL

Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:22 pm

Fuzzy;1490636 wrote: Sure, I'm ready. I've been ready for hell from the day I was born. My parents didn't force any kind of belief system on me. I was lucky to be able to make up my own mind. Common sense beats brainwashing any day.

Are you saying you believe in the vicarious redemption of Jesus?

Regards

DL

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:30 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1490953 wrote: Are you saying you believe in the vicarious redemption of Jesus?

Regards

DL

No, I'm not. I'm not even convinced that Jesus ever lived. You can never be sure you're being told the truth. Some people say, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.

I usually say, if it doesn't make sense to me, then I don't believe it.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:59 am

Billy Goats exist.

Trolls clearly exist.

Bridges obviously exist.

Then someone comes along & writes a story incorporating all of these independent details & suddenly it becomes absolute truth. The existence of Billy Goats proves it. The existence of Trolls proves it. Even the existence of Bridges through Biblical Archaeology proves it. All three are known to exist. Therefore the story HAS to be true.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:27 am

FourPart;1490976 wrote: Billy Goats exist.

Trolls clearly exist.

Bridges obviously exist.

Then someone comes along & writes a story incorporating all of these independent details & suddenly it becomes absolute truth. The existence of Billy Goats proves it. The existence of Trolls proves it. Even the existence of Bridges through Biblical Archaeology proves it. All three are known to exist. Therefore the story HAS to be true.

You better believe it.

Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:22 pm

Fuzzy;1490969 wrote: No, I'm not. I'm not even convinced that Jesus ever lived. You can never be sure you're being told the truth. Some people say, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.

I usually say, if it doesn't make sense to me, then I don't believe it.

Martin Luther would not like you.

Martin Luther.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Keep thinking for yourself buddy.

Regards

DL

Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:24 pm

FourPart;1490976 wrote: Billy Goats exist.

Trolls clearly exist.

Bridges obviously exist.

Then someone comes along & writes a story incorporating all of these independent details & suddenly it becomes absolute truth. The existence of Billy Goats proves it. The existence of Trolls proves it. Even the existence of Bridges through Biblical Archaeology proves it. All three are known to exist. Therefore the story HAS to be true.

If true, then that would be proof of the immorality of Yahweh and his other half, third that is.

Regards

DL

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:26 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491380 wrote: Martin Luther would not like you.

Martin Luther.

ï¿½Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.ï¿½

ï¿½Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.ï¿½

Keep thinking for yourself buddy.

Regards

DL

Martin Luther, is that the guy who cheated on his wife, or is that just a rumor? No, I think that was Martin Luther King.:-3

Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:54 am

Fuzzy;1491431 wrote: Martin Luther, is that the guy who cheated on his wife, or is that just a rumor? No, I think that was Martin Luther King.:-3

In that day, all in power had lovers. It was usually kept quiet.

Even the religious leadership seem to have a Right Of Kings mentality.

Rather cheap though when religious women think they gain points in their community by laying with the big guy.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:00 pm

What I see here is a complete misunderstanding concerning the modern church. Parables present truth so does midrash. But there is too much harping on what used to be. It is gone and in the past. The word faith is a poor translation of "pistis". Pistis is about "trust" and also about "loyalty" It has no concept of right belief. Christianity is about following in the footsteps of Jesus of Nazareth and very real human being. Read "Did Jesus Exist" by Bart Ehrman. Jesus in Matt 25 gives us our walking papers: clothe the naked, visit the prisoners, care for the sick, give water to the thirsty, feeding the hungry and so on. Nothing here about right belief. So if we are following in his footsteps we are doing those things. Jesus was not God he was an ordinary human being who had a special relationship with the Divine.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:03 pm

Martin Luther wouldn't like me either. Neither would the fundamentalists. They seem to lack trust so they need the Bible, like a contract, signed sealed and delivered. A real search for security which does not exist or can be found in dreams. Satan was a Mesopotamian myth created to try to explain evil. The great cop out "The devil made me do it is no longer viable. We are totally responsible for out behavior. Damn I can't even blame my long lost uncle .LOL Another question crossed my mind. If God knows everything then why does He/She/It need to test people like Job. Job was another poem created to try to explain evil? It failed of course.

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:44 pm

Ted;1491703 wrote: What I see here is a complete misunderstanding concerning the modern church. Parables present truth so does midrash. But there is too much harping on what used to be. It is gone and in the past. The word faith is a poor translation of "pistis". Pistis is about "trust" and also about "loyalty" It has no concept of right belief. Christianity is about following in the footsteps of Jesus of Nazareth and very real human being. Read "Did Jesus Exist" by Bart Ehrman. Jesus in Matt 25 gives us our walking papers: clothe the naked, visit the prisoners, care for the sick, give water to the thirsty, feeding the hungry and so on. Nothing here about right belief. So if we are following in his footsteps we are doing those things. Jesus was not God he was an ordinary human being who had a special relationship with the Divine.

Christianity has never walked it's talk and has never done unto others. Islam follows that same trend and then some.

That is all that is missing in the lives of the vast majority of us.

Regards

DL

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:48 pm

Ted;1491706 wrote: Martin Luther wouldn't like me either. Neither would the fundamentalists. They seem to lack trust so they need the Bible, like a contract, signed sealed and delivered. A real search for security which does not exist or can be found in dreams. Satan was a Mesopotamian myth created to try to explain evil. The great cop out "The devil made me do it is no longer viable. We are totally responsible for out behavior. Damn I can't even blame my long lost uncle .LOL Another question crossed my mind. If God knows everything then why does He/She/It need to test people like Job. Job was another poem created to try to explain evil? It failed of course.

I think it did when in Job 2;3, it has God admitting that Satan moved him to do evil and kill without a just cause.

Non-idol worshipers will equate God with nature and recognize that nature produces all good and evils.

This of course is over the heads of Christian and Muslim idol worshipers.

They would praise God for killing without a just cause. They see that test you and I reject as a good thing.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:19 pm

Gnostic I cannot agree with such a generalization. There are many Christians who do walk the talk. To make such a blanket statement does a serious disservice to those who do walk the talk. I will point out to you one example. I have had parents say to me on a few occasions that I run a Christian school. I never said anything about my particular faith system since it was a public school. Walk the talk?????

Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:19 pm

Ted;1491714 wrote: Gnostic I cannot agree with such a generalization. There are many Christians who do walk the talk. To make such a blanket statement does a serious disservice to those who do walk the talk. I will point out to you one example. I have had parents say to me on a few occasions that I run a Christian school. I never said anything about my particular faith system since it was a public school. Walk the talk?????

I was looking at Christianity in total.

All Christians I know believe that good secular law and law in general should only punish the innocent and not the guilty.

But then they all plan to try to make sure they profit from the punishment of an innocent Jesus as they shed their own responsibility for their sins.

You are well aware that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Yet all who accept Jesus as their savior ignore that truth for their own benefit and do not mind punishing the innocent just this one time.

That is hardly moral Christians walking their moral talk.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:05 am

Ted;1491703 wrote: Christianity is about following in the footsteps of Jesus of Nazareth and very real human being. Read "Did Jesus Exist" by Bart Ehrman. Jesus in Matt 25 gives us our walking papers: clothe the naked, visit the prisoners, care for the sick, give water to the thirsty, feeding the hungry and so on. Nothing here about right belief. So if we are following in his footsteps we are doing those things. Jesus was not God he was an ordinary human being who had a special relationship with the Divine.

Absolutely. This is the tenet by which I live my life. It is nothing to do with being a Christian - I couldn't be further from it (at least, not in the Religious sense). It is because I believe the to be the right thing to do. I consider myself to be a Humanitarian. A Humanitarian is not bound by any Religion. They can believe in a Religion (any Religion) or not. The tenet remains true.

IF Jesus ever existed, as Ted has said, I believe that although he would have been Religious (as were the vast majority of Jews of the time), according to the Bible it seems as if he recognised that Religion had lost its way & had become corrupt & fraudulent in the same way that it remains to this day, and instead taught the true values of Humanity instead. This would have been an entirely new concept of thinking. It didn't make him a divinity, although there would have been extremists who would elevate him to the level of such, which would later be recorded in the words of the Gospels & blown out of all proportion, essentially reversing his original goals.

I find all Religion to be hypocritical & fundamentally evil, but rather than being Righteous, Religion has simply become Self Righteous.

Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:27 pm

FourPart;1491744 wrote: Absolutely. This is the tenet by which I live my life. It is nothing to do with being a Christian - I couldn't be further from it (at least, not in the Religious sense). It is because I believe the to be the right thing to do. I consider myself to be a Humanitarian. A Humanitarian is not bound by any Religion. They can believe in a Religion (any Religion) or not. The tenet remains true.

IF Jesus ever existed, as Ted has said, I believe that although he would have been Religious (as were the vast majority of Jews of the time), according to the Bible it seems as if he recognised that Religion had lost its way & had become corrupt & fraudulent in the same way that it remains to this day, and instead taught the true values of Humanity instead. This would have been an entirely new concept of thinking. It didn't make him a divinity, although there would have been extremists who would elevate him to the level of such, which would later be recorded in the words of the Gospels & blown out of all proportion, essentially reversing his original goals.

I find all Religion to be hypocritical & fundamentally evil, but rather than being Righteous, Religion has simply become Self Righteous.

I agree.

Religions are no longer do respect for sure.

" I believe that although he would have been Religious (as were the vast majority of Jews of the time),"

Yes and no. Don't you hate that?

Jesus said about working on the Sabbath; the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

IOW, man's constructions should serve man and not God. Religions, to Jesus, were to serve man. Religions turned that to men serving it.

Religions, are good when they serve man and Jesus promoted that type of religion primarily because religions force people to think of God. To Jesus, seeking God was good.

The mainstream religions have found God and that is why they are the garbage they are today. They are idol worshipers who no longer seek God just as in the days Jesus.

That is why Jesus chastised those who would stone one who worked on the Sabbath.

Man to the older and wiser Jews was a man and men were to decide if and when they would work. Not some man made calendar or religion.

So Jesus liked religion but not the ones he saw.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:36 pm

I can agree with much of what has been said but we should not be casting the net over are Christians and Christian institutions. Like in any organization there are positive folks and negative folks. The church is changing and trying to move forward into the 21st century. Much of the criticism I get here is simply not true of many churches. One criticism that stands out is the church is after your money. That is not true in most cases. The church is not a building it is the people who support it. Often it is the people that choose to build a new church, support missions both in Canada and other countries. These things become the will of the people. That is not to say it is 100% positive. The church has issues that they have to deal with and many try to do so in the most positive way possible. Ecumenism is growing. We come to recognize the validity in all of the world great faiths. They were founded on the principles of Justice and compassion. Yes many strayed but we are trying to make amends as per Canada's first nations.

Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:39 am

Ted;1491887 wrote: I can agree with much of what has been said but we should not be casting the net over are Christians and Christian institutions. Like in any organization there are positive folks and negative folks. The church is changing and trying to move forward into the 21st century. Much of the criticism I get here is simply not true of many churches. One criticism that stands out is the church is after your money. That is not true in most cases. The church is not a building it is the people who support it. Often it is the people that choose to build a new church, support missions both in Canada and other countries. These things become the will of the people. That is not to say it is 100% positive. The church has issues that they have to deal with and many try to do so in the most positive way possible. Ecumenism is growing. We come to recognize the validity in all of the world great faiths. They were founded on the principles of Justice and compassion. Yes many strayed but we are trying to make amends as per Canada's first nations.

Christianity is based on and immoral concept of us sheading our responsibilities and placing them on an innocent sacrifice.

Unless the church ends that immoral entry free, it cannot ever be a moral religion and should be scrapped.

As to Canadian first nations. You do not see the church offering restitution. All they offer does not cost them a dime.

All religions are greedy and wish to be quite rich.

You respect religions that do not deserve or earn respect.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:12 am

Gnostic it seems to me that you really don't understand religions and I'm not just talking about Christianity.

Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:21 am

Ted;1492094 wrote: Gnostic it seems to me that you really don't understand religions and I'm not just talking about Christianity.

Chastisement without correction shows the hate you have in your heart so I don't see me wanting to learn to think as you do.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:06 pm

Oh!!!!!!!! BTW I've suggested many authors that you could read if you were interested but it seems to me that you don't want to be bothered by the facts so don't confuse you. Time to expand your mind and give things some deeper thought. I'm sure as an intelligent man you do not need me to read it to you.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:24 pm

As far as Satan is testing Jesus goes Satan is a myth created by the Mesopotamian. Hard for a non existent being to test anyone.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:00 pm

With the famed temptation - 2 guys chatting together, out in the middle of nowhere. Who was there to take down verbatim notes?

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:14 am

Ted;1492119 wrote: As far as Satan is testing Jesus goes Satan is a myth created by the Mesopotamian. Hard for a non existent being to test anyone.

I agree that like the Christian God, they are all imaginary constructs.

Regards

DL

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:17 am

FourPart;1492120 wrote: With the famed temptation - 2 guys chatting together, out in the middle of nowhere. Who was there to take down verbatim notes?

Just the lying priests.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:50 pm

Gnostic your mistake is in trying to tar everyone with the same brush. Dawkins tried that and failed.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:22 am

Ted;1492267 wrote: Gnostic your mistake is in trying to tar everyone with the same brush. Dawkins tried that and failed.

Dawkins failed??? Who told you that???

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:22 pm

Fuzzy I skimmed Dawkins book "The God Delusion" and frankly what he was describing an older form of Christianity and not the form that many churches are following today. As a Scientist he did not do that much research. Like Gnostic Dawkins tried to tar every one with the same breath. He was clueless about many churches today.

Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:52 pm

Ted;1492267 wrote: Gnostic your mistake is in trying to tar everyone with the same brush. Dawkins tried that and failed.

I will listen when you can show a the moral difference between the mainstream religions whose only creation I see are homophobic and misogynous people.

Christianity helped usher in the Dark Ages and Inquisition and Islam is showing itself to be no better.

You respect religions that do not deserve respect. Where are your morals?

Regards

DL

Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:56 pm

Ted;1492359 wrote: Fuzzy I skimmed Dawkins book "The God Delusion" and frankly what he was describing an older form of Christianity and not the form that many churches are following today. As a Scientist he did not do that much research. Like Gnostic Dawkins tried to tar every one with the same breath. He was clueless about many churches today.

But bang on in his moral judgements.

Christianity and Islam are well into Satan's hands. Too bad that Satan is a human construct, as well as the Gods, and cannot come by to rid the world of those two immoral creeds and return them to where they belong. Hell.

Regards

DL

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:53 pm

Ted;1492359 wrote: Fuzzy I skimmed Dawkins book "The God Delusion" and frankly what he was describing an older form of Christianity and not the form that many churches are following today. As a Scientist he did not do that much research. Like Gnostic Dawkins tried to tar every one with the same breath. He was clueless about many churches today.

I don't think Dawkins is perfect. Nobody is, but he makes very good points against what the churches are proclaiming. Churches have changed some of their views. Most people know that, I'm sure Dawkins would know that too. However, I don't think the churches have changed nearly enough. They are very reluctant and try to hang on to as much nonsense as they possibly can. But only as long as the flock keeps coming to them to listen the ancient made up stories.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:59 am

Gnostic your mistake is in trying to tar everyone with the same brush. Dawkins tried that and failed.

Sneaky trying to divert the coinversation to discussing dawkins.

Dawkins is a boring writer I looked at the god delusion it and couldn't be bothered reading it. He says nothing new about religion the only thing it offers ius an easy introduction to religious criticism. He's a late developer so far as relgion is concerned onkly realising in later life what load of tosh it all is. Also he is just one of a number of prominent atheists and he doe not speak as an "authority" on the subject. An atheist is simply somone that does not believe in a god or gods it's not an alternative belief system that people follow or have figures of authiority that define what to believe.

Try Christopher Hitchens "God is not Great" shorter and more readable.

What sacrifice did jesus make - assuming just for the sake of argument he did exist. If he's father son and holy ghost there was no real sacrifice involved since as an all knowing god he knew what the outcome would be. If he is the son of god then he must have known he would not really be sacrificed, or if he believed he was being sacrificed then what kind of father would convince his own son he was to be sacrfificed? The word malevolent sadistic springs to mind. Only kidding JC get off your death bed.

posted by gnostic christian

But bang on in his moral judgements.

Christianity and Islam are well into Satan's hands. Too bad that Satan is a human construct, as well as the Gods, and cannot come by to rid the world of those two immoral creeds and return them to where they belong. Hell.

Who is satan what is this evil of which you speak. If god created all things then he created satan/evil in which case he is malevolent god and you are welcome to him, if he didn't create him then he is an oimpotent god so why bother with him?

Religion is a man made construct if only the religious couold get their heads out the good book and think for themselves.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:34 pm

Wow. A lot to comment on. Gnostic it seems to me that you have one giant chip on your shoulder for whatever reason and you can never arrive at any sensible conclusion until you get rid of that chip.

As for the Person of the Historical Jesus (Ehrman) he was a very regular and ordinary human being like the rest of us but had a much greater understanding of the nature of God, Allah, the Great Spirit etc. I often wonder what kind of man he really was. After their experience of Jesus they began to to wonder themselves and began to append all kinds of positions onto his name. Part of it may have been political. This Jesus was called the son of God but so was Caesar. This meant that if Jesus was The Son of God than Caesar was not. Others, Savior of the world, King, Virgin birth and a host of others. Jesus was seen as a threat to the stability of the empire and so was disposed of by crucifixion as were all those who were seen as committing treason. During his life he was showing us how we should behave: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help those disenfranchised. The outcasts, those marginalized. etc Matt 25 gives us a clear understanding of what he was about. The mmost important social event that could be performed was to invite someone to eat with you at your table. It was the ultimate sign of acceptance.

Some 80% of the words in the Bible attributed to Jesus are words the evangelists put into his mouth. They do not go back to the historical Jesus though some of them may have been things he would have said.

Several branches of the Christian church are changing. They are moving towards "Christianity after Religion" (Diana Butler-Bass) Much of what some folks are saying and questioning here are being addressed

but many simply don't listend and don't want to learn and understand.

Some very good authors are D. Crossan, M Borg, Butler-Bass, Spong, Ehrman, Bruggeman, and several others.

Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:25 am

Ted;1492395 wrote: Wow. A lot to comment on. Gnostic it seems to me that you have one giant chip on your shoulder for whatever reason and you can never arrive at any sensible conclusion until you get rid of that chip.

As for the Person of the Historical Jesus (Ehrman) he was a very regular and ordinary human being like the rest of us but had a much greater understanding of the nature of God, Allah, the Great Spirit etc. I often wonder what kind of man he really was. After their experience of Jesus they began to to wonder themselves and began to append all kinds of positions onto his name. Part of it may have been political. This Jesus was called the son of God but so was Caesar. This meant that if Jesus was The Son of God than Caesar was not. Others, Savior of the world, King, Virgin birth and a host of others. Jesus was seen as a threat to the stability of the empire and so was disposed of by crucifixion as were all those who were seen as committing treason. During his life he was showing us how we should behave: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help those disenfranchised. The outcasts, those marginalized. etc Matt 25 gives us a clear understanding of what he was about. The mmost important social event that could be performed was to invite someone to eat with you at your table. It was the ultimate sign of acceptance.

Some 80% of the words in the Bible attributed to Jesus are words the evangelists put into his mouth. They do not go back to the historical Jesus though some of them may have been things he would have said.

Several branches of the Christian church are changing. They are moving towards "Christianity after Religion" (Diana Butler-Bass) Much of what some folks are saying and questioning here are being addressed

but many simply don't listend and don't want to learn and understand.

Some very good authors are D. Crossan, M Borg, Butler-Bass, Spong, Ehrman, Bruggeman, and several others.

The reality of Jesus is a secondary consideration to the poor morality that Christianity has their God preaching.

I happen to agree with this Bishop from a moral perspective and I will keep the chip you think I have until Christians take a on Jesus instead of their current immoral one.

This Bishop says it is what is killing Christianity and you might wish me luck in changing immoral Christian attitudes instead of fighting me on it.

Regards

DL

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:29 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1492411 wrote: The reality of Jesus is a secondary consideration to the poor morality that Christianity has their God preaching.

I happen to agree with this Bishop from a moral perspective and I will keep the chip you think I have until Christians take a on Jesus instead of their current immoral one.

This Bishop says it is what is killing Christianity and you might wish me luck in changing immoral Christian attitudes instead of fighting me on it.

Regards

DL

There are two very separate issues here - there is the morality of Christianity, the religion and there is the morality of the Christian Church.

You are attacking the religion when your real target should be the temporal Church.

Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:13 pm

Bryn Mawr;1492422 wrote: There are two very separate issues here - there is the morality of Christianity, the religion and there is the morality of the Christian Church.

You are attacking the religion when your real target should be the temporal Church.

Add all the describers you want to muddy your thinking but do tell us why you respect religions that do not deserve respect.

Regards

DL

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:08 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1492425 wrote: Add all the describers you want to muddy your thinking but do tell us why you respect religions that do not deserve respect.

Regards

DL

I don't - I disrespect the type intolerance and hatred that you are repeatedly showing.

Islam is one religion amongst many and, to my mind, little different to the others - indeed far more similar to Christianity than most.

It's adherents are people the same as any others.

The big difference is that the West has openly declared war on Islam and the western media is deliberately trying to daemonise all Muslims. Now I don't know about you but I'm damned if I'll let scum like the media moguls manipulate me - you might be happy swallowing their propaganda but I'll think my own thoughts thank you very much.

Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:13 pm

Bryn Mawr;1492443 wrote: I don't - I disrespect the type intolerance and hatred that you are repeatedly showing.

Islam is one religion amongst many and, to my mind, little different to the others - indeed far more similar to Christianity than most.

It's adherents are people the same as any others.

The big difference is that the West has openly declared war on Islam and the western media is deliberately trying to daemonise all Muslims. Now I don't know about you but I'm damned if I'll let scum like the media moguls manipulate me - you might be happy swallowing their propaganda but I'll think my own thoughts thank you very much.

While ignoring statistics and morals.

You are quite the guy. So busy worrying about scum that you will support scum.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:44 pm

It seems to me that we are to get passed all the political and religious things and concentrate on our fellow human beings. Gnostic says he does not judge but paints Christianity in total with the same brush???

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:21 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1492447 wrote: While ignoring statistics and morals.

You are quite the guy. So busy worrying about scum that you will support scum.

Regards

DL

Statistics derived without controls or quoted out of context can be used to show anything you like. I have yet to see any meaningful statistics to support your case.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:12 pm

Bryn how true that is.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:19 pm

Gnostic, another judgment???

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:29 pm

Gnostic fortunately that is only your opinion. Many others don't accept that. It reminds me of the boy who thought that everyone was out of step but himself.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:37 pm

Morality varies from time to time and from country to country. Whose morality are we discussing? The nonexistent Satan is testing us?? OK whatever.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:59 am

Ted;1492456 wrote: It seems to me that we are to get passed all the political and religious things and concentrate on our fellow human beings. Gnostic says he does not judge but paints Christianity in total with the same brush???

Why lie? I always judge. So do you.

Where did I say I do not judge?

You may think you can think of Muslims without thinking of their religion but that would be quite foolish of you.

And yes, I paint both Christianity and Islam with the immoral brush.

I also note that no one is arguing against this.

Regards

DL

Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:01 am

Bryn Mawr;1492460 wrote: Statistics derived without controls or quoted out of context can be used to show anything you like. I have yet to see any meaningful statistics to support your case.

Nice that you support such barbaric people and their immoral ideology.

Regards

DL