Tales from Herodotus

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:57 am

Isis 'fed murdered kidnap victim to his own mother after she travelled to their headquarters and demanded to see him'

"A British fighter who travelled to Iraq to stop the Islamic State claims the terror group fed a murdered kidnap victim to his own mother after she went to their headquarters and demanded to see him."

Isis 'fed murdered kidnap victim to his own mother' | Daily Mail Online

Some folks will say anything for attention. Or?

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:26 am

Try as I might I can't recall Herodotus mentioning Atreus anywhere, but I'd gladly be shown to be in error.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:51 am

I was going to comment on the article link but now fear you two are having a completely different conversation...lol

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:01 am

flopstock;1475392 wrote: I was going to comment on the article link but now fear you two are having a completely different conversation...lol

No no, weave about floppers, there's room in any thread for both erudition and claptrap.

(We need you for the erudite bit. Just bear in mind the link is to the Daily Mail.)

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:12 am

flopstock;1475392 wrote: I was going to comment on the article link but now fear you two are having a completely different conversation...lol

Don't mind spot he is just showing off.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:13 am

I was referring, spot, to this gory story from Herodotus, which I had to look up in Google. I don't expect anyone to trust my memory, but it is a tale I have never forgotten:

"1.119.1 When Harpagus heard this, he bowed and went to his home, very pleased to find that his offense had turned out for the best and that he was invited to dinner in honor of this fortunate day. 1.119.2 Coming in, he told his only son, a boy of about thirteen years of age, to go to Astyages' palace and do whatever the king commanded, and in his great joy he told his wife everything that had happened. 1.119.3 But when Harpagus' son came, Astyages cut his throat and tore him limb from limb, roasted some of the flesh and boiled some, and kept it ready after he had prepared it. 1.119.4 So when the hour for dinner came and the rest of the guests and Harpagus were present, Astyages and the others were served dishes of lamb's meat, but Harpagus that of his own son, all but the head and hands and feet, which lay apart covered up in a wicker basket. 1.119.5 And when Harpagus seemed to have eaten his fill, Astyages asked him, “Did you like your meal, Harpagus? “Exceedingly, Harpagus answered. Then those whose job it was brought him the head of his son and hands and feet concealed in the basket, and they stood before Harpagus and told him to open and take what he liked. 1.119.6 Harpagus did; he opened and saw what was left of his son: he saw this, but mastered himself and did not lose his composure. Astyages asked him, “Do you know what beast's meat you have eaten? 1.119.7 “I know, he said, “and all that the king does is pleasing. With that answer he took the remains of the meat and went home. There he meant, I suppose, after collecting everything, to bury it."

Herodotus, The Histories

Perseus Under Philologic: Hdt. 1

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:15 am

flopstock;1475392 wrote: I was going to comment on the article link but now fear you two are having a completely different conversation...lol

Please comment on the link. I don't necessarily trust it's source, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:15 am

Whoever Herodotus and Atreus are or were is neither here nor there.

I too got the impression that somebody somewhere was turning the PR screw tighter on IS, like beheading people isn't enough ?

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:51 am

AnneBoleyn;1475402 wrote: I was referring, spot, to this gory story from Herodotus, which I had to look up in Google. I don't expect anyone to trust my memory, but it is a tale I have never forgotten:

Ah. When I think of Greek cannibalism I think of Pelops, who was stewed by his dad to feed to the Gods on Olympus but was resurrected, and his two children Atreus and Thyestes, the former of whom fed the latter the latter's two boys. Why Herodotus transferred this second tale to a Persian setting I'm not sure but I doubt it exists in any earlier source. I don't remember having seen it before, but my memory's unreliable so I expect I've seen it and lost it.

I haven't even looked at the Daily Mail link, they make up too many stories out of balderdash to be even slightly credible.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:53 am

spot;1475412 wrote: Ah. When I think of Greek cannibalism I think of Pelops, who was stewed by his dad to feed to the Gods on Olympus but was resurrected, and his two children Atreus and Thyestes, the former of whom fed the latter the latter's two boys. Why Herodotus transferred this second tale to a Persian setting I'm not sure but I doubt it exists in any earlier source. I don't remember having seen it before, but my memory's unreliable so I expect I've seen it and lost it.

I haven't even looked at the Daily Mail link, they make up too many stories out of balderdash to be even slightly credible.

See ?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:28 am

Is this paper the equivalent to the National Enquirer over here?

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:39 am

flopstock;1475424 wrote: Is this paper the equivalent to the National Enquirer over here?

Would you buy the National Enquirer solely for its absorbent qualities?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:51 am

spot;1475427 wrote: Would you buy the National Enquirer solely for its absorbent qualities?
not even to line a bird cage

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:00 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475403 wrote: Please comment on the link. I don't necessarily trust it's source, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

The mail is simply reporting what some fellow claims happened.

There really isn't much to comment. It is all hearsay.

I am sure some folks will take the story and run with it.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:12 pm

LarsMac;1475440 wrote: The mail is simply reporting what some fellow claims happened.

There really isn't much to comment. It is all hearsay.

I am sure some folks will take the story and run with it.
That's why I questioned what kind of paper this was. When I click on her byline it shows multiple stories from her overnight. Everything from this to gout, pension plans to politics.

And she has another one on jihadi john.

My problems with stories like this is the one source. I'm seeing other references in the story by not independent confirmation of his charges.

But weren't the Kurds the ones that were gassed previously? If so, I have no problem believing he would head back to defend his relatives.

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:19 pm

flopstock;1475441 wrote: But weren't the Kurds the ones that were gassed previously? If so, I have no problem believing he would head back to defend his relatives.Twenty seven years ago, during a war, probably though not certainly by the Iraqi army. The problems his relatives would face now come from different people for different reasons. The biggest threat the Kurds face is probably Turkey and has been for decades. The Kurds live in Iraq, Turkey and Iran and have no country of their own. They'd like one.

The Daily Mail has no reputation whatever where truth is concerned. The sole purpose of their story-telling is to get a high sales and pageview total, neither of those benefit in tabloid red-top journalism from being honest or fair or balanced or informed. He who screams loudest sells most copies.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:23 pm

In other words, spot, if the Daily Mail has a true story it is by accident or coincidence. Isn't it run by that tacky fellow Piers Morgan? Or did he lose his position?

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:26 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475444 wrote: In other words, spot, if the Daily Mail has a true story it is by accident or coincidence. Isn't it run by that tacky fellow Piers Morgan? Or did he lose his position?

Paragraph three of Piers Morgan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia explains why Mr Morgan lives abroad these days. I'd much prefer not to write about him, my opinion hasn't been tested by a UK court.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:34 pm

flopstock;1475441 wrote: That's why I questioned what kind of paper this was. When I click on her byline it shows multiple stories from her overnight. Everything from this to gout, pension plans to politics.

And she has another one on jihadi john.

My problems with stories like this is the one source. I'm seeing other references in the story by not independent confirmation of his charges.

But weren't the Kurds the ones that were gassed previously? If so, I have no problem believing he would head back to defend his relatives.

I don't doubt that the guy went back to fight with his people against IS.

But his story about the son (The headline of the story) is simply hearsay. He probably heard it from someone over there and told someone when he got home, and this reporter got wind of it.

The Mail simply published hearsay.

It's what they do.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:10 pm

So which papers are more reliable from across the pond?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:24 pm

Amid brazen, deadly attacks, gay Syrians tell of fear of ISIS persecution - CNN.com

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:31 pm

LarsMac;1475447 wrote: I don't doubt that the guy went back to fight with his people against IS.

But his story about the son (The headline of the story) is simply hearsay. He probably heard it from someone over there and told someone when he got home, and this reporter got wind of it.

The Mail simply published hearsay.

It's what they do.

I actually feel that is essentially true for much of what Herodotus reported on, yet his work is considered historical documentation.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:46 pm

flopstock;1475454 wrote: So which papers are more reliable from across the pond?

All the tabloids are only in it for the sensationalism and celebrity gossip, with the Daily Mail being the leader. An exception would be the "i" a sister paper, a concise version if you like, of the Independent.

Generally, the broadsheets are pretty much respected, depending on your political persuasion. To the left, the Independent and the Guardian. To the right, the Telegraph and the Times. Not forgetting the Observer which is a weekly edition and a heavy read

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:24 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475444 wrote: In other words, spot, if the Daily Mail has a true story it is by accident or coincidence. Isn't it run by that tacky fellow Piers Morgan? Or did he lose his position?

Piers Morgan and the Mirror

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:51 pm

Yellow Journalism is the name.

"Yellow journalism, or the yellow press, is a type of journalism that presents little or no legitimate well-researched news and instead uses eye-catching headlines to sell more newspapers.[1] Techniques may include exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, or sensationalism. By extension, the term yellow journalism is used today as a pejorative to decry any journalism that treats news in an unprofessional or unethical fashion."

Yellow journalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:05 pm

flopstock;1475424 wrote: Is this paper the equivalent to the National Enquirer over here?
The Daily Mail is the newspaper that supported the Nazi Blackshirts during WW2, and it's political bias has never changed ever since.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:19 pm

flopstock;1475461 wrote: Amid brazen, deadly attacks, gay Syrians tell of fear of ISIS persecution - CNN.com

Quick!! Hide that.

If the Republicans in Alabama see that, they'll be inviting them over here.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:35 pm

snopes.com: ISIS Tricks Mother Into Eating Son's Remains

That refers to "a single sensationalistic source and was passed on by many other outlets without any additional investigation". Even when the author of a tale can be identified the wartime propaganda story can still be bogus. Iraq's Baby Incubators is a prime example.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:42 pm

A single source doesn't make it untrue, but I hope it is untrue. I'm angry enough about the recent destruction of antiquities, to have more on my 'plate.' Sorry! unavoidable pun.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:09 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475567 wrote: A single source doesn't make it untrue, but I hope it is untrue. I'm angry enough about the recent destruction of antiquities, to have more on my 'plate.' Sorry! unavoidable pun.

Stories with names and dates and places are more credible than ones without. That's because they become checkable as opposed to impossible to refute.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:13 pm

spot;1475577 wrote: Stories with names and dates and places are more credible than ones without. That's because they become checkable as opposed to impossible to refute.

It's why that tripehound Piers Morgan has no reputation left as a creditable journalist, if he ever had one. Detestable creature.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:45 am

spot;1475577 wrote: Stories with names and dates and places are more credible than ones without. That's because they become checkable as opposed to impossible to refute.

Duhhh. Of course.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:54 am

spot;1475577 wrote: Stories with names and dates and places are more credible than ones without. That's because they become checkable as opposed to impossible to refute.Or do as is done by so many americans and simply choose to believe whatever fits your presuppositions. Over here refutation takes a back seat to belief too often.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:22 pm

flopstock;1475454 wrote: So which papers are more reliable from across the pond?

Try The Independent | News | UK and Worldwide News | Newspaper or Latest news, sport and comment from the Guardian | The Guardian or World - News - The Scotsman

I don't trust any of them but tend to cross reference any stories that catch my interest the daily mail is basically titillation and gossip interspersed with the odd bit of news sort of rabid right wing ranting with lots of tut tutting. Stories about successful women tend to be of the didn't she do well and look at the tits on her variety

Post by **spot** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:50 am

gmc;1475619 wrote: Stories about successful women tend to be of the didn't she do well and look at the tits on her variety

Radio 4 is in the middle of the WOW festival at London's Southbank Centre, which is Women of the World for those who aren't tuned in. As with space exploration, there's some way to go before the feminist euphoria of the sixties can be regarded as successfully begun.