ISIS have now upset Japan.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Now ISIS have murdered two Japanese news reporters in such a horrifying way, and filmed it all. Will Japan want to wipe ISIS out ? Did I see reports on the TV that some of the Japanese people were demanding that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe rescind their pacifist stance (they have not fired a shot in anger since WWII) ?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
ISIS have now upset Japan.
G#Gill;1473397 wrote: Now ISIS have murdered two Japanese news reporters in such a horrifying way, and filmed it all. Will Japan want to wipe ISIS out ? Did I see reports on the TV that some of the Japanese people were demanding that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe rescind their pacifist stance (they have not fired a shot in anger since WWII) ?
The Milk Pan is starting to bubble.
The Milk Pan is starting to bubble.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
I'm of the age that I remember the stories of allied POW's being put to the samurai sword in the Japanese camps - for being “cowards by Bushido standards. Don't know if it's true but it is said that Japan has refused to make an apology for their actions in S-E Asia during WW II. I realize that one generation ought not to pay for the crimes of an earlier one but I can't help but quote the catchy, American thingy ¦ “What goes around, comes around.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1473407 wrote: I'm of the age that I remember the stories of allied POW's being put to the samurai sword in the Japanese camps - for being “cowards by Bushido standards. Don't know if it's true but it is said that Japan has refused to make an apology for their actions in S-E Asia during WW II. I realize that one generation ought not to pay for the crimes of an earlier one but I can't help but quote the catchy, American thingy ¦ “What goes around, comes around.
As an american, I have zero interest in japan suffering from this thingy. And i don't need an apology.
As an american, I have zero interest in japan suffering from this thingy. And i don't need an apology.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Don't forget that Japan were never in breach of the Geneva Convention as they never signed up to it in the first place.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1473427 wrote: Don't forget that Japan were never in breach of the Geneva Convention as they never signed up to it in the first place.
You're just full of bad news today.
You're just full of bad news today.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
flopstock;1473422 wrote: As an american, I have zero interest in japan suffering from this thingy. And i don't need an apology.
I agree. All of that was a very long time ago.
Grudges get awfully heavy.
I agree. All of that was a very long time ago.
Grudges get awfully heavy.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
ISIS have now upset Japan.
LarsMac;1473483 wrote: I agree. All of that was a very long time ago.
Grudges get awfully heavy.
And we never did get an apology from those Italians after they invaded us & usurped our Right & Proper Pagan beliefs with their ridiculous stories about some geyser they killed, who they reckon was supposed to be a Son of God. Huh! Some God!! Now, our Henges - well, they speak for themselves.
Grudges get awfully heavy.
And we never did get an apology from those Italians after they invaded us & usurped our Right & Proper Pagan beliefs with their ridiculous stories about some geyser they killed, who they reckon was supposed to be a Son of God. Huh! Some God!! Now, our Henges - well, they speak for themselves.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
The thing is are we going to frown, scowl and stamp our feet at Japan if they decide to send troops in retaliation ? Or are we going to accept any force coming from East Asia to sort out a problem that needs urgent attention before it over-runs the world ? Something which both UK and USA are not keen on getting too obviously involved in.
So far ISIS have brutally murdered several innocent civilians by beheading them, and filming it all. Their latest horrendous action has been to execute one Japanese press man and film another innocent Japanese reporter being beheaded ! These films, of course, were all proudly shown on the internet for the world to see. To top that, tonight we hear that ISIS have locked a Jordanian Airforce pilot, who was shot down the other day and captured, in a cage and set fire to him, burning him to death ! They also proudly filmed this terrible action, which the UK media have chosen to not broadcast, as it is far too horrific.
So far ISIS have brutally murdered several innocent civilians by beheading them, and filming it all. Their latest horrendous action has been to execute one Japanese press man and film another innocent Japanese reporter being beheaded ! These films, of course, were all proudly shown on the internet for the world to see. To top that, tonight we hear that ISIS have locked a Jordanian Airforce pilot, who was shot down the other day and captured, in a cage and set fire to him, burning him to death ! They also proudly filmed this terrible action, which the UK media have chosen to not broadcast, as it is far too horrific.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
G#Gill;1473497 wrote: The thing is are we going to frown, scowl and stamp our feet at Japan if they decide to send troops in retaliation ? ........
Good question. We are the ones who insisted that Japan maintain a neutral military stance. So what is our reaction to be if Japan springs into action? But (and please correct me if necessary) hasn't Germany already broken the same post-war neutrality ..... with our blessing?
Good question. We are the ones who insisted that Japan maintain a neutral military stance. So what is our reaction to be if Japan springs into action? But (and please correct me if necessary) hasn't Germany already broken the same post-war neutrality ..... with our blessing?
ISIS have now upset Japan.
When you think about it, ISIS have performed an act of war against Japan ! Are they likely to stand back and do nothing? Jordan have now executed a couple of ISIS failed suicide bombers that they had captured and offered in exchange for the pilot that ISIS burned to death the other day. I suppose Jordan realised that ISIS were not interested in having those suicide bombers back ! I really am not sure where all this is going to, or when if ever,it can be stopped. What is ISIS intentions ? Do they want a country? Do they want the world ? Do we want to be ruled by such a terrifying régime ? I have a feeling that the latter will not happen, that the world will not allow it. But how and when will these terrorists be stopped and how much more insanity will there be before this canker is got rid of ?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Good for Jordan. Regardless of who it is, where, or why, I am a firm believer that no-one should negotiate with terrorists (the same with blackmailers, kidnappers & the like). It serves no purpose but to prove that they can get what they want from their vile actions. Finally Jordan have taken a stance & stood up for themselves instead of kow-towing to all the pussy-footing diplomats.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1473538 wrote: Good for Jordan. Regardless of who it is, where, or why, I am a firm believer that no-one should negotiate with terrorists (the same with blackmailers, kidnappers & the like). It serves no purpose but to prove that they can get what they want from their vile actions. Finally Jordan have taken a stance & stood up for themselves instead of kow-towing to all the pussy-footing diplomats.
It might be a prudent idea for you to be a bit more discrete about your "firm beliefs". I'd be much more impressed if you express your demonstrative view when the victim isn't quite as anonymous as this Jordanian fellow ..... like your father, mother, brother, sister, or best mate for example.
It might be a prudent idea for you to be a bit more discrete about your "firm beliefs". I'd be much more impressed if you express your demonstrative view when the victim isn't quite as anonymous as this Jordanian fellow ..... like your father, mother, brother, sister, or best mate for example.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
National policy cannot afford to get personal.
Scenario 1.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother accedes & gives him sweeties.
The child sees he's onto a good thing & demands even more sweeties, etc., etc.
Scenario 2.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother ignores him - or even takes away some of his other treats & toys.
The child sees that tantrums don't get him anywhere & starts to behave.
Consider another scenario. The family of Ian Brady decide they want him freed, so they kidnap a few of the hospital warders & hold them hostage, saying that unless he is freed, then they start killing the hostages. Other families are looking on to see the result, with the notion of doing the same sort of thing to get their family members released. So, do we accede to their demands & release him? You raise the subject of the families of the hostages. How about the families of Brady's victims? The paralells are the same.
The whole point of these individually focused attacks is that they target the personal aspect of things. It is at this level that we cannot yield. My Brother joined the Army with his eyes open to the risks involved. He always accepted that if he were to be captured that the Government would not negotiate with his captors. He was invalided out after getting Gulf War Syndrome, having to have everything from his stomach down removed, yet he still accepts that these were the risks he accepted at the start. I DO have the personal aspect to things & tough as it may be I know that my Brother would be mortified at the idea of letting a number of terrorists go free so that they could continue to massacre countless other innocent civilians for the sake of his own life and I think most families of Military Personnel believe likewise. To claim otherwise is an insult to the families and the personnel concerned. Yes, they would be upset if it were their own family members, but most would know that it was for the greater good.
Scenario 1.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother accedes & gives him sweeties.
The child sees he's onto a good thing & demands even more sweeties, etc., etc.
Scenario 2.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother ignores him - or even takes away some of his other treats & toys.
The child sees that tantrums don't get him anywhere & starts to behave.
Consider another scenario. The family of Ian Brady decide they want him freed, so they kidnap a few of the hospital warders & hold them hostage, saying that unless he is freed, then they start killing the hostages. Other families are looking on to see the result, with the notion of doing the same sort of thing to get their family members released. So, do we accede to their demands & release him? You raise the subject of the families of the hostages. How about the families of Brady's victims? The paralells are the same.
The whole point of these individually focused attacks is that they target the personal aspect of things. It is at this level that we cannot yield. My Brother joined the Army with his eyes open to the risks involved. He always accepted that if he were to be captured that the Government would not negotiate with his captors. He was invalided out after getting Gulf War Syndrome, having to have everything from his stomach down removed, yet he still accepts that these were the risks he accepted at the start. I DO have the personal aspect to things & tough as it may be I know that my Brother would be mortified at the idea of letting a number of terrorists go free so that they could continue to massacre countless other innocent civilians for the sake of his own life and I think most families of Military Personnel believe likewise. To claim otherwise is an insult to the families and the personnel concerned. Yes, they would be upset if it were their own family members, but most would know that it was for the greater good.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1473572 wrote: National policy cannot afford to get personal.
Scenario 1.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother accedes & gives him sweeties.
The child sees he's onto a good thing & demands even more sweeties, etc., etc.
Scenario 2.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother ignores him - or even takes away some of his other treats & toys.
The child sees that tantrums don't get him anywhere & starts to behave.
Consider another scenario. The family of Ian Brady decide they want him freed, so they kidnap a few of the hospital warders & hold them hostage, saying that unless he is freed, then they start killing the hostages. Other families are looking on to see the result, with the notion of doing the same sort of thing to get their family members released. So, do we accede to their demands & release him? You raise the subject of the families of the hostages. How about the families of Brady's victims? The paralells are the same.
The whole point of these individually focused attacks is that they target the personal aspect of things. It is at this level that we cannot yield. My Brother joined the Army with his eyes open to the risks involved. He always accepted that if he were to be captured that the Government would not negotiate with his captors. He was invalided out after getting Gulf War Syndrome, having to have everything from his stomach down removed, yet he still accepts that these were the risks he accepted at the start. I DO have the personal aspect to things & tough as it may be I know that my Brother would be mortified at the idea of letting a number of terrorists go free so that they could continue to massacre countless other innocent civilians for the sake of his own life and I think most families of Military Personnel believe likewise. To claim otherwise is an insult to the families and the personnel concerned. Yes, they would be upset if it were their own family members, but most would know that it was for the greater good.
Your fantasy scenarios are interesting but are not much more than fundamental discrepancies over the price of a bag of sweets and the possibility of unhygienic, dental practices.
The “PARENTS (in the real-life scenario which you attempt to parody) have illegally invaded nations, tortured, raped, and murdered millions of innocent men, women, and children ¦.. either outright or by proxy. And the “CHILDREN, who have suffered these atrocities have absolutely nothing to lose. So ¦. my suggestion is that if you are not all very keen on the outcome of a trade-off then back off and stop committing wholesale thievery and atrocities upon them and their people. ISIS and the other terrorist organizations didn't spring up from the cabbage patch without the right substrates and nurturing – both of which “we have provided.
Scenario 1.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother accedes & gives him sweeties.
The child sees he's onto a good thing & demands even more sweeties, etc., etc.
Scenario 2.
A child has a tantrum & demands sweeties.
His Mother ignores him - or even takes away some of his other treats & toys.
The child sees that tantrums don't get him anywhere & starts to behave.
Consider another scenario. The family of Ian Brady decide they want him freed, so they kidnap a few of the hospital warders & hold them hostage, saying that unless he is freed, then they start killing the hostages. Other families are looking on to see the result, with the notion of doing the same sort of thing to get their family members released. So, do we accede to their demands & release him? You raise the subject of the families of the hostages. How about the families of Brady's victims? The paralells are the same.
The whole point of these individually focused attacks is that they target the personal aspect of things. It is at this level that we cannot yield. My Brother joined the Army with his eyes open to the risks involved. He always accepted that if he were to be captured that the Government would not negotiate with his captors. He was invalided out after getting Gulf War Syndrome, having to have everything from his stomach down removed, yet he still accepts that these were the risks he accepted at the start. I DO have the personal aspect to things & tough as it may be I know that my Brother would be mortified at the idea of letting a number of terrorists go free so that they could continue to massacre countless other innocent civilians for the sake of his own life and I think most families of Military Personnel believe likewise. To claim otherwise is an insult to the families and the personnel concerned. Yes, they would be upset if it were their own family members, but most would know that it was for the greater good.
Your fantasy scenarios are interesting but are not much more than fundamental discrepancies over the price of a bag of sweets and the possibility of unhygienic, dental practices.
The “PARENTS (in the real-life scenario which you attempt to parody) have illegally invaded nations, tortured, raped, and murdered millions of innocent men, women, and children ¦.. either outright or by proxy. And the “CHILDREN, who have suffered these atrocities have absolutely nothing to lose. So ¦. my suggestion is that if you are not all very keen on the outcome of a trade-off then back off and stop committing wholesale thievery and atrocities upon them and their people. ISIS and the other terrorist organizations didn't spring up from the cabbage patch without the right substrates and nurturing – both of which “we have provided.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1473579 wrote: ISIS and the other terrorist organizations didn't spring up from the cabbage patch without the right substrates and nurturing – both of which “we have provided.
They sprung up frm their fantaticism for Religion & according Power to enforce their Religion on everyone else. This is not a country rebelling against colonisation. It's not even a country. It's a fanatical group of murderers intent on their own Crusade in the name of Allah with no regards for the laws or morals held in common by all other countries throughout the rest of the world.
When a thug walks through town arrogantly stabbing anyone who happens to get in his way, or even looks at him in the wrong way, you don't just sit by & let him carry on his merry way. You move in & stop him at the earliest opportunity. IS is the thug. The town is the world. Everyone arguing to stay out of it are the onlookers who just sit by & watch, thinking, "Oh, well, it's not me he's stabbing". That is, until he decides to stab you.
They sprung up frm their fantaticism for Religion & according Power to enforce their Religion on everyone else. This is not a country rebelling against colonisation. It's not even a country. It's a fanatical group of murderers intent on their own Crusade in the name of Allah with no regards for the laws or morals held in common by all other countries throughout the rest of the world.
When a thug walks through town arrogantly stabbing anyone who happens to get in his way, or even looks at him in the wrong way, you don't just sit by & let him carry on his merry way. You move in & stop him at the earliest opportunity. IS is the thug. The town is the world. Everyone arguing to stay out of it are the onlookers who just sit by & watch, thinking, "Oh, well, it's not me he's stabbing". That is, until he decides to stab you.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1473582 wrote: They sprung up frm their fantaticism for Religion & according Power to enforce their Religion on everyone else. This is not a country rebelling against colonisation. It's not even a country. It's a fanatical group of murderers intent on their own Crusade in the name of Allah with no regards for the laws or morals held in common by all other countries throughout the rest of the world.
I disagree. It is a cause (with Robin Hood crusader-like ingredients) aimed at putting the world right (by its own standards of righteousness) and taking its strength and initiative from Islamic philosophy, spun into a new sword in the same way Christianity rallies round itself.
FourPart;1473582 wrote: When a thug walks through town arrogantly stabbing anyone who happens to get in his way, or even looks at him in the wrong way, you don't just sit by & let him carry on his merry way. You move in & stop him at the earliest opportunity. IS is the thug. The town is the world. Everyone arguing to stay out of it are the onlookers who just sit by & watch, thinking, "Oh, well, it's not me he's stabbing". That is, until he decides to stab you.
He thinks of you as the thug. I can certainly see his point of view. You illegally invaded Irak on a lie of WMD's. You invaded, you tortured, you raped, and you murdered innocent men, women,and children. Down the line a bit you were forced to admit you lied about the WMD's but rather than appologise you said taking out Saddam Hussein was worth all of the innocent deaths you caused and perpetrated. Now tell me again why any Islamist organization ought to shake your hand?
I disagree. It is a cause (with Robin Hood crusader-like ingredients) aimed at putting the world right (by its own standards of righteousness) and taking its strength and initiative from Islamic philosophy, spun into a new sword in the same way Christianity rallies round itself.
FourPart;1473582 wrote: When a thug walks through town arrogantly stabbing anyone who happens to get in his way, or even looks at him in the wrong way, you don't just sit by & let him carry on his merry way. You move in & stop him at the earliest opportunity. IS is the thug. The town is the world. Everyone arguing to stay out of it are the onlookers who just sit by & watch, thinking, "Oh, well, it's not me he's stabbing". That is, until he decides to stab you.
He thinks of you as the thug. I can certainly see his point of view. You illegally invaded Irak on a lie of WMD's. You invaded, you tortured, you raped, and you murdered innocent men, women,and children. Down the line a bit you were forced to admit you lied about the WMD's but rather than appologise you said taking out Saddam Hussein was worth all of the innocent deaths you caused and perpetrated. Now tell me again why any Islamist organization ought to shake your hand?
ISIS have now upset Japan.
I think it is a shame for the reporter to name and locate people in this story.
ISIS beheads Syrians who took to Facebook to condemn Jordanian pilot's death | Daily Mail Online
ISIS beheads Syrians who took to Facebook to condemn Jordanian pilot's death | Daily Mail Online
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1473586 wrote: He thinks of you as the thug. I can certainly see his point of view. You illegally invaded Irak on a lie of WMD's. You invaded, you tortured, you raped, and you murdered innocent men, women,and children. Down the line a bit you were forced to admit you lied about the WMD's but rather than appologise you said taking out Saddam Hussein was worth all of the innocent deaths you caused and perpetrated. Now tell me again why any Islamist organization ought to shake your hand?
IS is as true to the ideals of Islam as the Ku Klux Clan is to the ideals of Christianity. All the Muslims I know are disgusted at the acts of these Islamist fanatics & seek to distance themselves from them. Bear in mind that IS is currently moving on Islamic countries & it is those Islamic countries that are requesting our support against IS.
IS is as true to the ideals of Islam as the Ku Klux Clan is to the ideals of Christianity. All the Muslims I know are disgusted at the acts of these Islamist fanatics & seek to distance themselves from them. Bear in mind that IS is currently moving on Islamic countries & it is those Islamic countries that are requesting our support against IS.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Long story shore ISIS is just evil
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1473626 wrote: IS is as true to the ideals of Islam as the Ku Klux Clan is to the ideals of Christianity.
I agree with you.
FourPart;1473626 wrote: All the Muslims I know are disgusted at the acts of these Islamist fanatics & seek to distance themselves from them. Bear in mind that IS is currently moving on Islamic countries & it is those Islamic countries that are requesting our support against IS.
I don't suppose you remember when Martin Luther King called for nation-wide civil disobedience. An overwhelming majority, including blacks, were appalled that anyone would advocate breaking the law on such a massive scale. Perhaps it worked only because men like Malcolm X were calling for much more drastic measures “by any means necessary. Had the powers not bent to accommodate Martin Luther King they would have had to endure the wrath that Malcolm X was preparing.
Think of Islamist terrorism as the Malcolm X in full swing, after having thumbed your nose at international law, ignoring UN resolutions on returning land back to the Palestinians and the UN forbidding the U.S. to invade Irak, etc. etc. etc.
I agree with you.
FourPart;1473626 wrote: All the Muslims I know are disgusted at the acts of these Islamist fanatics & seek to distance themselves from them. Bear in mind that IS is currently moving on Islamic countries & it is those Islamic countries that are requesting our support against IS.
I don't suppose you remember when Martin Luther King called for nation-wide civil disobedience. An overwhelming majority, including blacks, were appalled that anyone would advocate breaking the law on such a massive scale. Perhaps it worked only because men like Malcolm X were calling for much more drastic measures “by any means necessary. Had the powers not bent to accommodate Martin Luther King they would have had to endure the wrath that Malcolm X was preparing.
Think of Islamist terrorism as the Malcolm X in full swing, after having thumbed your nose at international law, ignoring UN resolutions on returning land back to the Palestinians and the UN forbidding the U.S. to invade Irak, etc. etc. etc.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
I think by comparing MLK's approach to that of IS shows him a great disservice. MLK's approach was that of Peaceful Protest, and can hardly be compared with that of IS. If, however, he had said for every black to go out & kill everyone who looked at you in the wrong way, then THAT would be comparable. Instead, his advice was for everyone to abide by the terms of the Declaration of Independance, as laid down for everyone, not just for Whites. It was the LAWS that were illegal, not the decision to break them.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness
ISIS have now upset Japan.
From news reports over here it appears that ISIS may have made a major misstep in releasing that video of the pilot. Is that the impression of those of you across the pond?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1473633 wrote: I think by comparing MLK's approach to that of IS shows him a great disservice. MLK's approach was that of Peaceful Protest, and can hardly be compared with that of IS. If, however, he had said for every black to go out & kill everyone who looked at you in the wrong way, then THAT would be comparable. Instead, his advice was for everyone to abide by the terms of the Declaration of Independance, as laid down for everyone, not just for Whites. It was the LAWS that were illegal, not the decision to break them.
You didn't really read what it is that I wrote.
You didn't really read what it is that I wrote.
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AnneBoleyn
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Read Malcolm X's autobiography to see just how wrong the comments raised about him are. The Black Panthers, another strong group, also did not believe in white slaughter, but in self-protection.
Some folks who have lived here a bit may think they know all. If there is one thing I was intimately & actively involved in, in the top echelon I humbly add, were the movements on the left. I knew these people, & my facts are from Inside Information, not gleaned from an overbearing Ego, as some are doing, & what's worse, doing with an Authority they do Not possess. Even though someone may not read this, the rest of you might & I am speaking Gospel on the movements of the sixties in my own country.
Some folks who have lived here a bit may think they know all. If there is one thing I was intimately & actively involved in, in the top echelon I humbly add, were the movements on the left. I knew these people, & my facts are from Inside Information, not gleaned from an overbearing Ego, as some are doing, & what's worse, doing with an Authority they do Not possess. Even though someone may not read this, the rest of you might & I am speaking Gospel on the movements of the sixties in my own country.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Having done a great deal of reading concerning the middle eastern problems I've come to the conclusion that after what Briton and the US did to those people it is now payback time for those evils.
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AnneBoleyn
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Ted;1480670 wrote: Having done a great deal of reading concerning the middle eastern problems I've come to the conclusion that after what Briton and the US did to those people it is now payback time for those evils.
You do understand, Ted, that Canada has played a military role in these middle eastern problems you've been doing a great deal of reading about? Now payback for those evils, too. Be careful what you wish for.............Your hands are not so clean either.
You do understand, Ted, that Canada has played a military role in these middle eastern problems you've been doing a great deal of reading about? Now payback for those evils, too. Be careful what you wish for.............Your hands are not so clean either.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Looking back in history we find that both Britain and the US were keeping the people down so they could take their natural resources. The king of Iran was deposed to allow access to their oil reserves. The Shah of of Iran was put into power and a good deal of the population lived in abject poverty. Palestinians are still fighting for their rights long after 148. So tell me how these things were even close to Christianity. No I decry the evil on both sides. I also understand human nature and the desire for revenge. Saddam Hussein
was pust into power by the US and when he didn't do what they (US and Britain ) wanted he was removed based on a lie (WMD) So what do I think should happen is a very massive apology and reparations and a request for forgiveness for those deprived of their rights basically by greed
was pust into power by the US and when he didn't do what they (US and Britain ) wanted he was removed based on a lie (WMD) So what do I think should happen is a very massive apology and reparations and a request for forgiveness for those deprived of their rights basically by greed
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AnneBoleyn
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
"So what do I think should happen is a very massive apology and reparations and a request for forgiveness for those deprived of their rights basically by greed"
Don't hold your breath.
Don't hold your breath.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Ted;1480670 wrote: Having done a great deal of reading concerning the middle eastern problems I've come to the conclusion that after what Briton and the US did to those people it is now payback time for those evils.
It sounds to be a sensible point of view. I think that we in the west would do the same under the circumstances.
It sounds to be a sensible point of view. I think that we in the west would do the same under the circumstances.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
AnneBoleyn;1480678 wrote: "So what do I think should happen is a very massive apology and reparations and a request for forgiveness for those deprived of their rights basically by greed"
Don't hold your breath.
It would be a start, wouldn't it? And maybe not so eager to initiate "regime change" without first considering the consequences!
As you say, don't hold your breath!
Don't hold your breath.
It would be a start, wouldn't it? And maybe not so eager to initiate "regime change" without first considering the consequences!
As you say, don't hold your breath!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
An apology would be an acceptance of liability & would leave the country open for compensation claims. Don't forget the Government has never officially accepted the existence of Gulf War Syndrome, as it would leave itself open for personal injury claims from those who, at best, were left permanently disabled or at worst, dead. If it won't accept liability to compensate its own people, can you really imagine it accepting liability to compensate an entire country.
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AnneBoleyn
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Governments don't apologize when they think they always do the right thing. Like people in general, too many at least.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Maybe we should also accept more responsibility for WW2 with our short-sighted treaty of Versailles? We never seem to learn the lessons of history, much to our disadvantage. The "winners" always seem to show a certain arrogant disdain for the vanquished, and they write the history to boot.
I also believe that if a country HAS been unlawfully attacked OR invaded/subjugated then that country is ENTITLED to compensation from it's assailant(s), and an apology.
Anyway, when was the last time anyone saw/heard a GENUINE apology from a politician or government?
When you see the lips move, they're lying! Old but true, I fear.
I also believe that if a country HAS been unlawfully attacked OR invaded/subjugated then that country is ENTITLED to compensation from it's assailant(s), and an apology.
Anyway, when was the last time anyone saw/heard a GENUINE apology from a politician or government?
When you see the lips move, they're lying! Old but true, I fear.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
AnneBoleyn;1480820 wrote: Governments don't apologize when they think they always do the right thing. Like people in general, too many at least.
It's nothing to do with thinking they did the right thing. It's fear of the consequences. By not admitting something exists in the face of all the evidence to the contrary they are not holding themselves to account.
On the other hand, when an amnesty & exemption from prosecution is made, things can work out quite well for all concerned, as with the Truth & Reconciliation in South Africa. Everyone admitted there had been faults on both sides, brought it out in the open without fear of repercussion & in that way were able to draw a line under it all & move on.
It's nothing to do with thinking they did the right thing. It's fear of the consequences. By not admitting something exists in the face of all the evidence to the contrary they are not holding themselves to account.
On the other hand, when an amnesty & exemption from prosecution is made, things can work out quite well for all concerned, as with the Truth & Reconciliation in South Africa. Everyone admitted there had been faults on both sides, brought it out in the open without fear of repercussion & in that way were able to draw a line under it all & move on.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1480878 wrote: It's nothing to do with thinking they did the right thing. It's fear of the consequences. By not admitting something exists in the face of all the evidence to the contrary they are not holding themselves to account.
............ and ...........
FourPart;1480878 wrote: On the other hand, when an amnesty & exemption from prosecution is made, things can work out quite well for all concerned, as with the Truth & Reconciliation in South Africa. Everyone admitted there had been faults on both sides, brought it out in the open without fear of repercussion & in that way were able to draw a line under it all & move on.
Both beautifully stated.:yh_clap
............ and ...........
FourPart;1480878 wrote: On the other hand, when an amnesty & exemption from prosecution is made, things can work out quite well for all concerned, as with the Truth & Reconciliation in South Africa. Everyone admitted there had been faults on both sides, brought it out in the open without fear of repercussion & in that way were able to draw a line under it all & move on.
Both beautifully stated.:yh_clap
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Yeah, that's precisely the trouble. Never admit you were wrong, otherwise you're liable! Surely it would be better to "lance the boil" by admitting liability (similar to South Africa's scenario) and paying reparations rather than letting resentment fester into outright hatred, thus promoting the likelihood of an insoluble situation and entrenched prejudice for years to come, and whatever atrocities that will spawn.
IMO it's mainly, though not entirely, this "never admit responsibility" attitude that has promoted groups such as Al Shabaab, Al Quaeda and ISIS, to name but a few. It's a thing "passing strange" to me how we in the West never seem to learn how to be tactful and discreet in our dealings with the world at large.
History has taught us nothing, apparently.
And this is the result.
IMO it's mainly, though not entirely, this "never admit responsibility" attitude that has promoted groups such as Al Shabaab, Al Quaeda and ISIS, to name but a few. It's a thing "passing strange" to me how we in the West never seem to learn how to be tactful and discreet in our dealings with the world at large.
History has taught us nothing, apparently.
And this is the result.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Smaug;1480880 wrote: Yeah, that's precisely the trouble. Never admit you were wrong, otherwise you're liable! Surely it would be better to "lance the boil" by admitting liability (similar to South Africa's scenario) and paying reparations rather than letting resentment fester into outright hatred, thus promoting the likelihood of an insoluble situation and entrenched prejudice for years to come, and whatever atrocities that will spawn.
IMO it's mainly, though not entirely, this "never admit responsibility" attitude that has promoted groups such as Al Shabaab, Al Quaeda and ISIS, to name but a few. It's a thing "passing strange" to me how we in the West never seem to learn how to be tactful and discreet in our dealings with the world at large.
History has taught us nothing, apparently.
And this is the result.
You are being naïve. It is you and I who suffer the consequences of this “festering resentment. The people denying liability are the one's who benefit. We have no say in the matter, so I'm not sure I understand what history should have taught us – you and I. The one's making both the decisions and the denial HAVE learned from history. They learned from men like Josef Göbbels that we, the population, can be lied to and we'll accept it as truth. Such as “patriotism.
The wrong question has been asked time and time again. Ask not how “we could not have learned from history ¦ ask why the lessons learned have been ignored, and ask who benefits from ignoring them. THEN you will be one giant step closer to achieving peace. Of course, it will require a revolution of sorts, if not an all-out one.
IMO it's mainly, though not entirely, this "never admit responsibility" attitude that has promoted groups such as Al Shabaab, Al Quaeda and ISIS, to name but a few. It's a thing "passing strange" to me how we in the West never seem to learn how to be tactful and discreet in our dealings with the world at large.
History has taught us nothing, apparently.
And this is the result.
You are being naïve. It is you and I who suffer the consequences of this “festering resentment. The people denying liability are the one's who benefit. We have no say in the matter, so I'm not sure I understand what history should have taught us – you and I. The one's making both the decisions and the denial HAVE learned from history. They learned from men like Josef Göbbels that we, the population, can be lied to and we'll accept it as truth. Such as “patriotism.
The wrong question has been asked time and time again. Ask not how “we could not have learned from history ¦ ask why the lessons learned have been ignored, and ask who benefits from ignoring them. THEN you will be one giant step closer to achieving peace. Of course, it will require a revolution of sorts, if not an all-out one.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1480884 wrote: You are being naïve. It is you and I who suffer the consequences of this “festering resentment. The people denying liability are the one's who benefit. We have no say in the matter, so I'm not sure I understand what history should have taught us – you and I. The one's making both the decisions and the denial HAVE learned from history. They learned from men like Josef Göbbels that we, the population, can be lied to and we'll accept it as truth. Such as “patriotism.
The wrong question has been asked time and time again. Ask not how “we could not have learned from history ¦ ask why the lessons learned have been ignored, and ask who benefits from ignoring them. THEN you will be one giant step closer to achieving peace. Of course, it will require a revolution of sorts, if not an all-out one.
Indeed we do "foot the bill" for our Governments actions! But who elects the govt?
WE DO!!
So are WE not ultimately responsible,then?
And if WE don't like the way we are "represented", or rather "mis-represented", shouldn't we look at either;
1. Forcing changes to the current electoral system,by whatever means, to a truer reflection of voter opinion, by implementing PR? (UK)
2. A GENERAL STRIKE to remind politicians that they're there to represent the wishes of the people that elected them, as opposed o them feeling they have a mandate to do as they like, IN OUR NAME!!
When will people realize that it is THEY (the people) who really hold the power. This is what our erstwhile leaders are worried about. If there was a full-blooded insurrection in a country, then "regime change" is a high order of probability! (there are exceptions though)
Insurrections are not always for the best, as a "power vacuum" is often formed (such as in Iraq/Libya). Into this vacuum often steps a monster, seizing his moment...
As for naivete, just take a look at the world and it's problems. It's the height of naivete to think that the West can do as it damn well likes, without a "by-your leave", or without having to face the consequences of it's actions. I'm not naive, I see the World as it is, in all it's tawdry fineness, and there will SOON BE A RECKONING, the way we are being led!!!
The wrong question has been asked time and time again. Ask not how “we could not have learned from history ¦ ask why the lessons learned have been ignored, and ask who benefits from ignoring them. THEN you will be one giant step closer to achieving peace. Of course, it will require a revolution of sorts, if not an all-out one.
Indeed we do "foot the bill" for our Governments actions! But who elects the govt?
WE DO!!
So are WE not ultimately responsible,then?
And if WE don't like the way we are "represented", or rather "mis-represented", shouldn't we look at either;
1. Forcing changes to the current electoral system,by whatever means, to a truer reflection of voter opinion, by implementing PR? (UK)
2. A GENERAL STRIKE to remind politicians that they're there to represent the wishes of the people that elected them, as opposed o them feeling they have a mandate to do as they like, IN OUR NAME!!
When will people realize that it is THEY (the people) who really hold the power. This is what our erstwhile leaders are worried about. If there was a full-blooded insurrection in a country, then "regime change" is a high order of probability! (there are exceptions though)
Insurrections are not always for the best, as a "power vacuum" is often formed (such as in Iraq/Libya). Into this vacuum often steps a monster, seizing his moment...
As for naivete, just take a look at the world and it's problems. It's the height of naivete to think that the West can do as it damn well likes, without a "by-your leave", or without having to face the consequences of it's actions. I'm not naive, I see the World as it is, in all it's tawdry fineness, and there will SOON BE A RECKONING, the way we are being led!!!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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AnneBoleyn
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
You are not naive Smaug, you had a differing outlook, which is no cause for you being on the receiving end of an Ad Hominem.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Smaug;1480889 wrote: Indeed we do "foot the bill" for our Governments actions! But who elects the govt?
WE DO!!
So are WE not ultimately responsible,then?
And if WE don't like the way we are "represented", or rather "mis-represented", shouldn't we look at either;
1. Forcing changes to the current electoral system,by whatever means, to a truer reflection of voter opinion, by implementing PR? (UK)
2. A GENERAL STRIKE to remind politicians that they're there to represent the wishes of the people that elected them, as opposed o them feeling they have a mandate to do as they like, IN OUR NAME!!
When will people realize that it is THEY (the people) who really hold the power. This is what our erstwhile leaders are worried about. If there was a full-blooded insurrection in a country, then "regime change" is a high order of probability! (there are exceptions though)
Insurrections are not always for the best, as a "power vacuum" is often formed (such as in Iraq/Libya). Into this vacuum often steps a monster, seizing his moment...
As for naivete, just take a look at the world and it's problems. It's the height of naivete to think that the West can do as it damn well likes, without a "by-your leave", or without having to face the consequences of it's actions. I'm not naive, I see the World as it is, in all it's tawdry fineness, and there will SOON BE A RECKONING, the way we are being led!!!
Do we REALLY elect the government? I'm leaning towards the term “naïve again. I realize that the level of Democratic principles differs from nation to nation but “in general most citizens have little REAL representation in the politicians on offer to us. Look again at your own summation of the situation, but don't say that we haven't learned anything from history, rather ask what it is that makes our reality of international turmoil seem AS THOUGH we have no history to learn from. If you and I can see so clearly through the political chicanery and understand that “compromise and “consideration of other nations, cultures, and people are paramount to achieving peace among nations ¦.. then don't you believe that those “at the top are equally adept at understanding that concept as well? Of course they are. Humour me and say that I'm right – if only for a brief moment. Then it is very obvious that electing one or the other makes no difference because their agenda is something other than ours. An agenda of a sinister quality, I'd say. To put it another way, if we are “ultimately responsible (as you say) then you'd also have to believe that had we simply voted for “the other guy then the world would be well on the way to peace. But you don't really believe that ¦.. do you?
I agree with both your points (1 & 2) that they are the way forward to seeking the changes in politics and representation. I also agree that “forcing change (as you've also said) is possibly our only recourse. I did say in my previous reply that some sort of revolution will most likely be necessary, didn't I? That is my point ¦. that “electing government is the opium of the masses and achieves so very little. Connecting our privilege of the vote (IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT) to the bottom line conclusion that the situation is then “our responsibility is rather naïve. You contradict yourself on that point.
WE DO!!
So are WE not ultimately responsible,then?
And if WE don't like the way we are "represented", or rather "mis-represented", shouldn't we look at either;
1. Forcing changes to the current electoral system,by whatever means, to a truer reflection of voter opinion, by implementing PR? (UK)
2. A GENERAL STRIKE to remind politicians that they're there to represent the wishes of the people that elected them, as opposed o them feeling they have a mandate to do as they like, IN OUR NAME!!
When will people realize that it is THEY (the people) who really hold the power. This is what our erstwhile leaders are worried about. If there was a full-blooded insurrection in a country, then "regime change" is a high order of probability! (there are exceptions though)
Insurrections are not always for the best, as a "power vacuum" is often formed (such as in Iraq/Libya). Into this vacuum often steps a monster, seizing his moment...
As for naivete, just take a look at the world and it's problems. It's the height of naivete to think that the West can do as it damn well likes, without a "by-your leave", or without having to face the consequences of it's actions. I'm not naive, I see the World as it is, in all it's tawdry fineness, and there will SOON BE A RECKONING, the way we are being led!!!
Do we REALLY elect the government? I'm leaning towards the term “naïve again. I realize that the level of Democratic principles differs from nation to nation but “in general most citizens have little REAL representation in the politicians on offer to us. Look again at your own summation of the situation, but don't say that we haven't learned anything from history, rather ask what it is that makes our reality of international turmoil seem AS THOUGH we have no history to learn from. If you and I can see so clearly through the political chicanery and understand that “compromise and “consideration of other nations, cultures, and people are paramount to achieving peace among nations ¦.. then don't you believe that those “at the top are equally adept at understanding that concept as well? Of course they are. Humour me and say that I'm right – if only for a brief moment. Then it is very obvious that electing one or the other makes no difference because their agenda is something other than ours. An agenda of a sinister quality, I'd say. To put it another way, if we are “ultimately responsible (as you say) then you'd also have to believe that had we simply voted for “the other guy then the world would be well on the way to peace. But you don't really believe that ¦.. do you?
I agree with both your points (1 & 2) that they are the way forward to seeking the changes in politics and representation. I also agree that “forcing change (as you've also said) is possibly our only recourse. I did say in my previous reply that some sort of revolution will most likely be necessary, didn't I? That is my point ¦. that “electing government is the opium of the masses and achieves so very little. Connecting our privilege of the vote (IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT) to the bottom line conclusion that the situation is then “our responsibility is rather naïve. You contradict yourself on that point.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
'We' elected this Government, where only a minority of the public actually voted for them.
Too much choice is not necessarily a good thing.
Too much choice is not necessarily a good thing.
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
FourPart;1480929 wrote: 'We' elected this Government, where only a minority of the public actually voted for them.
Too much choice is not necessarily a good thing.
As is often the case, numbers are not nearly as important as quality. One marmite & cucumber sandwich is worth more than a chest-full of gold in a dinghy on the high seas.
One Smaug in office is worth more than a dozen Bush & Blair's. But Smaug's name isn't on the voting ballot.
Too much choice is not necessarily a good thing.
As is often the case, numbers are not nearly as important as quality. One marmite & cucumber sandwich is worth more than a chest-full of gold in a dinghy on the high seas.
One Smaug in office is worth more than a dozen Bush & Blair's. But Smaug's name isn't on the voting ballot.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1480934 wrote: As is often the case, numbers are not nearly as important as quality. One marmite & cucumber sandwich is worth more than a chest-full of gold in a dinghy on the high seas.
One Smaug in office is worth more than a dozen Bush & Blair's. But Smaug's name isn't on the voting ballot.
I'm not quite sure how to take that...:wah: But thanks anyway!
It would be good if governments developed empathy and morals, or at least some scruples, but don't hold your breath! No wonder some conspiracy theorists think we're being run by aliens!!.....................:yh_alien2:yh_alien
One Smaug in office is worth more than a dozen Bush & Blair's. But Smaug's name isn't on the voting ballot.
I'm not quite sure how to take that...:wah: But thanks anyway!
It would be good if governments developed empathy and morals, or at least some scruples, but don't hold your breath! No wonder some conspiracy theorists think we're being run by aliens!!.....................:yh_alien2:yh_alien
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1480926 wrote: Do we REALLY elect the government? I'm leaning towards the term “naïve again. I realize that the level of Democratic principles differs from nation to nation but “in general most citizens have little REAL representation in the politicians on offer to us. Look again at your own summation of the situation, but don't say that we haven't learned anything from history, rather ask what it is that makes our reality of international turmoil seem AS THOUGH we have no history to learn from. If you and I can see so clearly through the political chicanery and understand that “compromise and “consideration of other nations, cultures, and people are paramount to achieving peace among nations ¦.. then don't you believe that those “at the top are equally adept at understanding that concept as well? Of course they are. Humour me and say that I'm right – if only for a brief moment. Then it is very obvious that electing one or the other makes no difference because their agenda is something other than ours. An agenda of a sinister quality, I'd say. To put it another way, if we are “ultimately responsible (as you say) then you'd also have to believe that had we simply voted for “the other guy then the world would be well on the way to peace. But you don't really believe that ¦.. do you?
I agree with both your points (1 & 2) that they are the way forward to seeking the changes in politics and representation. I also agree that “forcing change (as you've also said) is possibly our only recourse. I did say in my previous reply that some sort of revolution will most likely be necessary, didn't I? That is my point ¦. that “electing government is the opium of the masses and achieves so very little. Connecting our privilege of the vote (IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT) to the bottom line conclusion that the situation is then “our responsibility is rather naïve. You contradict yourself on that point.
When you say electing a govt. is an opiate, it's true in some ways. People believe they're making a change, hopefully for the better, when in reality "the other guy" is not much different, also with a hidden agenda and no better! One way of "short-circuiting" democracy. Another is when separate political parties make these cosy little deals behind closed doors, possibly agreeing not to oppose each other too much over certain issues when in power, in exchange for similar considerations when the roles are reversed. Then there's the gerrymandered boundaries to add to the equation....
And of course, professional lobbyists. Don't mind amateurs doing it for the community, or the disadvantaged, but I can't stand the "pros"
I think we are basically in agreement, though with some minor differences. It's these differences that can make life interesting,though. Wouldn't do for us to all be the same!
I agree with both your points (1 & 2) that they are the way forward to seeking the changes in politics and representation. I also agree that “forcing change (as you've also said) is possibly our only recourse. I did say in my previous reply that some sort of revolution will most likely be necessary, didn't I? That is my point ¦. that “electing government is the opium of the masses and achieves so very little. Connecting our privilege of the vote (IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT) to the bottom line conclusion that the situation is then “our responsibility is rather naïve. You contradict yourself on that point.
When you say electing a govt. is an opiate, it's true in some ways. People believe they're making a change, hopefully for the better, when in reality "the other guy" is not much different, also with a hidden agenda and no better! One way of "short-circuiting" democracy. Another is when separate political parties make these cosy little deals behind closed doors, possibly agreeing not to oppose each other too much over certain issues when in power, in exchange for similar considerations when the roles are reversed. Then there's the gerrymandered boundaries to add to the equation....
And of course, professional lobbyists. Don't mind amateurs doing it for the community, or the disadvantaged, but I can't stand the "pros"
I think we are basically in agreement, though with some minor differences. It's these differences that can make life interesting,though. Wouldn't do for us to all be the same!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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AnneBoleyn
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
'Tis true, we are (at least here) electing a System, with Dems on one side of the coin, the Repubs on the other. Dems keep the lid on insurgency, I can't say that enough, but no one challenges the System.
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High Threshold
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- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
ISIS have now upset Japan.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: I'm not quite sure how to take that... But thanks anyway!
Well, if your name were on the ballot (and I knew your view to be what it is) then you'd have my vote without reservation. I don't mean that I think you'd have much of a chance against the system, once WITHIN IT, but at least I'd know that I put my vote to someone who WANTS peace above personal gain – something we haven't seen much of since the murder of Olaf Palme, the deposing of men such as Mohammad Mosaddegh and Alexander Dubcek, and restricting of “leg room of others such as Fidel Castro.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: It would be good if governments developed empathy and morals, or at least some scruples, but don't hold your breath!
I think the system has developed into an exclusive “good fellowclub. You might slip in through the back door (by overwhelming popularity and a novel quirk) but they'll get your thumbs into the screws post haste. I am also naïve, but I honestly think that's the case with Obama. His career up until he set up house in D.C. gave no indication that he was capable of anything other than both national and international good deeds. But look at him now.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: When you say electing a govt. is an opiate, it's true in some ways. People believe they're making a change, hopefully for the better, when in reality "the other guy" is not much different, also with a hidden agenda and no better! One way of "short-circuiting" democracy. Another is when separate political parties make these cosy little deals behind closed doors, possibly agreeing not to oppose each other too much over certain issues when in power, in exchange for similar considerations when the roles are reversed. Then there's the gerrymandered boundaries to add to the equation....
And of course, professional lobbyists. Don't mind amateurs doing it for the community, or the disadvantaged, but I can't stand the "pros"
Yes.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: I think we are basically in agreement, though with some minor differences. It's these differences that can make life interesting,though. Wouldn't do for us to all be the same!
At this junction I can't see that we disagree on any point. :yh_star
Well, if your name were on the ballot (and I knew your view to be what it is) then you'd have my vote without reservation. I don't mean that I think you'd have much of a chance against the system, once WITHIN IT, but at least I'd know that I put my vote to someone who WANTS peace above personal gain – something we haven't seen much of since the murder of Olaf Palme, the deposing of men such as Mohammad Mosaddegh and Alexander Dubcek, and restricting of “leg room of others such as Fidel Castro.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: It would be good if governments developed empathy and morals, or at least some scruples, but don't hold your breath!
I think the system has developed into an exclusive “good fellowclub. You might slip in through the back door (by overwhelming popularity and a novel quirk) but they'll get your thumbs into the screws post haste. I am also naïve, but I honestly think that's the case with Obama. His career up until he set up house in D.C. gave no indication that he was capable of anything other than both national and international good deeds. But look at him now.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: When you say electing a govt. is an opiate, it's true in some ways. People believe they're making a change, hopefully for the better, when in reality "the other guy" is not much different, also with a hidden agenda and no better! One way of "short-circuiting" democracy. Another is when separate political parties make these cosy little deals behind closed doors, possibly agreeing not to oppose each other too much over certain issues when in power, in exchange for similar considerations when the roles are reversed. Then there's the gerrymandered boundaries to add to the equation....
And of course, professional lobbyists. Don't mind amateurs doing it for the community, or the disadvantaged, but I can't stand the "pros"
Yes.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: I think we are basically in agreement, though with some minor differences. It's these differences that can make life interesting,though. Wouldn't do for us to all be the same!
At this junction I can't see that we disagree on any point. :yh_star
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High Threshold
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ISIS have now upset Japan.
Smaug;1480948 wrote: When you say electing a govt. is an opiate, it's true in some ways. People believe they're making a change, hopefully for the better, when in reality "the other guy" is not much different, also with a hidden agenda and no better! One way of "short-circuiting" democracy. Another is when separate political parties make these cosy little deals behind closed doors, possibly agreeing not to oppose each other too much over certain issues when in power, in exchange for similar considerations when the roles are reversed. Then there's the gerrymandered boundaries to add to the equation....
And of course, professional lobbyists. Don't mind amateurs doing it for the community, or the disadvantaged, but I can't stand the "pros"
.......
I was thinking about this response of yours today when I found this. You might find it interesting too:
Tell This To The Next Idiot Who Thinks You’re “Unpatriotic | LeakSource
And of course, professional lobbyists. Don't mind amateurs doing it for the community, or the disadvantaged, but I can't stand the "pros"
.......
I was thinking about this response of yours today when I found this. You might find it interesting too:
Tell This To The Next Idiot Who Thinks You’re “Unpatriotic | LeakSource
ISIS have now upset Japan.
High Threshold;1481066 wrote: I was thinking about this response of yours today when I found this. You might find it interesting too:
Tell This To The Next Idiot Who Thinks You’re “Unpatriotic | LeakSource
Well, thanks for the compliment HT! Yes, it would be hard to change the system from within, but I feel someone's got to try, if only to avoid possible bloodshed and violence further down the line.
As for the American expat on your link, can't say as I blame him!! This country is heading into nascent dictatorship, in my opinion. A good example of this is the new law stating that strike action from unions needs 40% of the membership to approve it, yet the tories claim mandate on 28% of votes cast!! A big fat case of "do as I say, not as I do". These are the ethics of industrial dictatorship.
I would prefer to change things WITHOUT resorting to violence and insurrection, but people will only tolerate being ignored by govt. for so long, except.....
Do you remember from years ago that quasi-scientific experiment performed by heating live frogs in a pan of water? They found that if the water was heated quickly, the frogs all jumped out, whereas if the water was heated slowly, the frogs stayed in the pan of water until the temperature killed them!
Are various govts. using this very tactic today, in the shape of slowly dwindling civil rights and mechanisms of complaint/objection, and slowly tightening rules and "restraints"?
Tell This To The Next Idiot Who Thinks You’re “Unpatriotic | LeakSource
Well, thanks for the compliment HT! Yes, it would be hard to change the system from within, but I feel someone's got to try, if only to avoid possible bloodshed and violence further down the line.
As for the American expat on your link, can't say as I blame him!! This country is heading into nascent dictatorship, in my opinion. A good example of this is the new law stating that strike action from unions needs 40% of the membership to approve it, yet the tories claim mandate on 28% of votes cast!! A big fat case of "do as I say, not as I do". These are the ethics of industrial dictatorship.
I would prefer to change things WITHOUT resorting to violence and insurrection, but people will only tolerate being ignored by govt. for so long, except.....
Do you remember from years ago that quasi-scientific experiment performed by heating live frogs in a pan of water? They found that if the water was heated quickly, the frogs all jumped out, whereas if the water was heated slowly, the frogs stayed in the pan of water until the temperature killed them!
Are various govts. using this very tactic today, in the shape of slowly dwindling civil rights and mechanisms of complaint/objection, and slowly tightening rules and "restraints"?
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Smaug;1481080 wrote: Well, thanks for the compliment HT! Yes, it would be hard to change the system from within, but I feel someone's got to try, if only to avoid possible bloodshed and violence further down the line.
As for the American expat on your link, can't say as I blame him!! This country is heading into nascent dictatorship, in my opinion. A good example of this is the new law stating that strike action from unions needs 40% of the membership to approve it, yet the tories claim mandate on 28% of votes cast!! A big fat case of "do as I say, not as I do". These are the ethics of industrial dictatorship.
I would prefer to change things WITHOUT resorting to violence and insurrection, but people will only tolerate being ignored by govt. for so long, except.....
Obama has an excellent record of political good deeds behind him. He worked diligently (if I'm to believe the documentary on his life) to bring about social equality and a system that won't leave the underprivileged in the lurch. But these were all local achievements and he is quoted as saying the only way to make any real headway is from “the top. That's why he decided to set his goals on the presidency. But look what happened once he got settled and was ready to get stuck into it. Stifled. I guess then that it doesn't really matter if they set out to rape the world (as Geo. Jr.) or if your heart is in a righteous place. To be a club member you've got to play by their rules. Sort of like organized crime. Did say “sort of like? I didn't mean to be so diplomatic.
Smaug;1481080 wrote: Do you remember from years ago that quasi-scientific experiment performed by heating live frogs in a pan of water? They found that if the water was heated quickly, the frogs all jumped out, whereas if the water was heated slowly, the frogs stayed in the pan of water until the temperature killed them!
No, I must be too young (haw-haw) to remember the hot water frog experiments.
Smaug;1481080 wrote: Are various govts. using this very tactic today, in the shape of slowly dwindling civil rights and mechanisms of complaint/objection, and slowly tightening rules and "restraints"?
Yes. Absolutely.
As for the American expat on your link, can't say as I blame him!! This country is heading into nascent dictatorship, in my opinion. A good example of this is the new law stating that strike action from unions needs 40% of the membership to approve it, yet the tories claim mandate on 28% of votes cast!! A big fat case of "do as I say, not as I do". These are the ethics of industrial dictatorship.
I would prefer to change things WITHOUT resorting to violence and insurrection, but people will only tolerate being ignored by govt. for so long, except.....
Obama has an excellent record of political good deeds behind him. He worked diligently (if I'm to believe the documentary on his life) to bring about social equality and a system that won't leave the underprivileged in the lurch. But these were all local achievements and he is quoted as saying the only way to make any real headway is from “the top. That's why he decided to set his goals on the presidency. But look what happened once he got settled and was ready to get stuck into it. Stifled. I guess then that it doesn't really matter if they set out to rape the world (as Geo. Jr.) or if your heart is in a righteous place. To be a club member you've got to play by their rules. Sort of like organized crime. Did say “sort of like? I didn't mean to be so diplomatic.
Smaug;1481080 wrote: Do you remember from years ago that quasi-scientific experiment performed by heating live frogs in a pan of water? They found that if the water was heated quickly, the frogs all jumped out, whereas if the water was heated slowly, the frogs stayed in the pan of water until the temperature killed them!
No, I must be too young (haw-haw) to remember the hot water frog experiments.
Smaug;1481080 wrote: Are various govts. using this very tactic today, in the shape of slowly dwindling civil rights and mechanisms of complaint/objection, and slowly tightening rules and "restraints"?
Yes. Absolutely.