I note from today's Independent thatUS intelligence officials have reportedly concluded that North Korea is behind the recent cyber-attack on Sony Pictures. The wide-ranging hack of Sony’s computer systems is believed to have been a response to the Hollywood studio’s comedy film The Interview, which depicts the death of North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un. An unnamed US government official told NBC News, “We have found linkage to the North Korean government.
Sony has now cancelled the Christmas Day release of The Interview [...]
The Interview: Sony Pictures cancels release of Kim Jong-Un assassination film as intelligence officials link cyber-attacks to North Korea - News - Films - The Independent
The world is a slightly cleaner place this week in consequence. Why scabrous odure like The Interview should exist is a matter of bafflement. Any audience for such unedifying embarrassment should be utterly ashamed of itself. One only needs to imagine a film in which a real-life current Western leader is assassinated on screen to cheers from the audience to realize how corrupting the entire notion of making a 'comedy' like this really is.
Bad cess to Sony Pictures. They made the mess, they can lie in it. As for the prats who would pay money to watch such bileful bad taste and laugh, words are inadequate.
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Or...............Sony have hyped the film with cyber attack rumours to boost sales ?
How would insular North Korea know of an unreleased American film ?
How would insular North Korea know of an unreleased American film ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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I doubt whether Sony Pictures or anyone associated with North Korean politics had anything to do with the data theft. As for the cancellation, that's pure Chicken Little territory.
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Who could possibly think that the assassination of a state's leader is the fit subject of a comedy?
The film should never have been made in the first place.
The film should never have been made in the first place.
The Interview
FG;1469556 wrote:
The world is a slightly cleaner place this week in consequence. Why scabrous odure like The Interview should exist is a matter of bafflement. Any audience for such unedifying embarrassment should be utterly ashamed of itself.
Nothing is more detestable than someone putting themselves on high and dictating the proper tastes and habits to other people they have no clue about.
By sitting in judgement of the film itself, you join the side of North Korea in condoning and campaigning for censorship.
So...are you a Holocaust denier as well? What other speech would you like to censor?
One only needs to imagine a film in which a real-life current Western leader is assassinated on screen to cheers from the audience to realize how corrupting the entire notion of making a 'comedy' like this really is.
Actually, intelligent people take free speech quite literally. Without the bad, there is no way to judge the good.
Bad cess to Sony Pictures. They made the mess, they can lie in it. As for the prats who would pay money to watch such bileful bad taste and laugh, words are inadequate.
Conceited, Holier-than-thou, stuck-up, abhorrent trashtalk. Either you are too uneducated and ignorant to see the greater issues, or you are deliberately and willfully obtuse. Either way this post is despicable and makes me wonder at the kind of leadership this board has...or the lack thereof.
Either way, to ignore the fact that a totalitarian terrorist nation attacked an American business, ruined lives, reputations, and fortunes, threatened innocent people with death, all so that they could control the behavior and freedom of expression is despicable. this is, after all, a country that has published a video of New York after a missile attack. It's OK for them to make that movie, but we can't make one about stopping them?
This act by North Korea is nothing short of an act of war. It caused real damage to America. Sony was cowardly to cave in to it. When Salmon Rushdie published "The Satanic Verses." Iran threatened both him and his publishers, but unlike Hollywood, the publishing community came to gather and stood up for freedom of speech.
It is imperative the America put forth a show of force to send the message that this kind of behavior has serious consequences in a global community.
When North Korea began counterfeiting 100 dollar bills, the Treasury department shut off their access to banks. The dictator couldn't pay his generals and North Korea was on the ropes for a time until we opened the pipeline again.
I suggest we do that again. Without cash flow, North Korea cannot keep their nuclear program running.
I'll end by saying again, that I am seriously disappointed in the person who wrote this post. It may be your forum, but to put out inflammatory statements like this one is irresponsible to your members.
The world is a slightly cleaner place this week in consequence. Why scabrous odure like The Interview should exist is a matter of bafflement. Any audience for such unedifying embarrassment should be utterly ashamed of itself.
Nothing is more detestable than someone putting themselves on high and dictating the proper tastes and habits to other people they have no clue about.
By sitting in judgement of the film itself, you join the side of North Korea in condoning and campaigning for censorship.
So...are you a Holocaust denier as well? What other speech would you like to censor?
One only needs to imagine a film in which a real-life current Western leader is assassinated on screen to cheers from the audience to realize how corrupting the entire notion of making a 'comedy' like this really is.
Actually, intelligent people take free speech quite literally. Without the bad, there is no way to judge the good.
Bad cess to Sony Pictures. They made the mess, they can lie in it. As for the prats who would pay money to watch such bileful bad taste and laugh, words are inadequate.
Conceited, Holier-than-thou, stuck-up, abhorrent trashtalk. Either you are too uneducated and ignorant to see the greater issues, or you are deliberately and willfully obtuse. Either way this post is despicable and makes me wonder at the kind of leadership this board has...or the lack thereof.
Either way, to ignore the fact that a totalitarian terrorist nation attacked an American business, ruined lives, reputations, and fortunes, threatened innocent people with death, all so that they could control the behavior and freedom of expression is despicable. this is, after all, a country that has published a video of New York after a missile attack. It's OK for them to make that movie, but we can't make one about stopping them?
This act by North Korea is nothing short of an act of war. It caused real damage to America. Sony was cowardly to cave in to it. When Salmon Rushdie published "The Satanic Verses." Iran threatened both him and his publishers, but unlike Hollywood, the publishing community came to gather and stood up for freedom of speech.
It is imperative the America put forth a show of force to send the message that this kind of behavior has serious consequences in a global community.
When North Korea began counterfeiting 100 dollar bills, the Treasury department shut off their access to banks. The dictator couldn't pay his generals and North Korea was on the ropes for a time until we opened the pipeline again.
I suggest we do that again. Without cash flow, North Korea cannot keep their nuclear program running.
I'll end by saying again, that I am seriously disappointed in the person who wrote this post. It may be your forum, but to put out inflammatory statements like this one is irresponsible to your members.
The Interview
Saint_;1469561 wrote: Nothing is more detestable than someone putting themselves on high and dictating the proper tastes and habits to other people they have no clue about.
By sitting in judgement of the film itself, you join the side of North Korea in condoning and campaigning for censorship.
So...are you a Holocaust denier as well? What other speech would you like to censor?
Actually, intelligent people take free speech quite literally. Without the bad, there is no way to judge the good.
Conceited, Holier-than-thou, stuck-up, abhorrent trashtalk. Either you are too uneducated and ignorant to see the greater issues, or you are deliberately and willfully obtuse. Either way this post is despicable and makes me wonder at the kind of leadership this board has...or the lack thereof.
Either way, to ignore the fact that a totalitarian terrorist nation attacked an American business, ruined lives, reputations, and fortunes, threatened innocent people with death, all so that they could control the behavior and freedom of expression is despicable. this is, after all, a country that has published a video of New York after a missile attack. It's OK for them to make that movie, but we can't make one about stopping them?
This act by North Korea is nothing short of an act of war. It caused real damage to America. Sony was cowardly to cave in to it. When Salmon Rushdie published "The Satanic Verses." Iran threatened both him and his publishers, but unlike Hollywood, the publishing community came to gather and stood up for freedom of speech.
It is imperative the America put forth a show of force to send the message that this kind of behavior has serious consequences in a global community.
When North Korea began counterfeiting 100 dollar bills, the Treasury department shut off their access to banks. The dictator couldn't pay his generals and North Korea was on the ropes for a time until we opened the pipeline again.
I suggest we do that again. Without cash flow, North Korea cannot keep their nuclear program running.
I'll end by saying again, that I am seriously disappointed in the person who wrote this post. It may be your forum, but to put out inflammatory statements like this one is irresponsible to your members.
That might be your opinion, in my opinion the subject of the film is the abhorrent trashtalk that is despicable, inflammatory and irresponsible - it certainly is not comedy, it's more about making a quick buck.
If the US Government wishes to take sanctions against the regime then that's fine and dandy and might well be an appropriate response to their actions but this is just cheep commercialism of the worst sort.
By sitting in judgement of the film itself, you join the side of North Korea in condoning and campaigning for censorship.
So...are you a Holocaust denier as well? What other speech would you like to censor?
Actually, intelligent people take free speech quite literally. Without the bad, there is no way to judge the good.
Conceited, Holier-than-thou, stuck-up, abhorrent trashtalk. Either you are too uneducated and ignorant to see the greater issues, or you are deliberately and willfully obtuse. Either way this post is despicable and makes me wonder at the kind of leadership this board has...or the lack thereof.
Either way, to ignore the fact that a totalitarian terrorist nation attacked an American business, ruined lives, reputations, and fortunes, threatened innocent people with death, all so that they could control the behavior and freedom of expression is despicable. this is, after all, a country that has published a video of New York after a missile attack. It's OK for them to make that movie, but we can't make one about stopping them?
This act by North Korea is nothing short of an act of war. It caused real damage to America. Sony was cowardly to cave in to it. When Salmon Rushdie published "The Satanic Verses." Iran threatened both him and his publishers, but unlike Hollywood, the publishing community came to gather and stood up for freedom of speech.
It is imperative the America put forth a show of force to send the message that this kind of behavior has serious consequences in a global community.
When North Korea began counterfeiting 100 dollar bills, the Treasury department shut off their access to banks. The dictator couldn't pay his generals and North Korea was on the ropes for a time until we opened the pipeline again.
I suggest we do that again. Without cash flow, North Korea cannot keep their nuclear program running.
I'll end by saying again, that I am seriously disappointed in the person who wrote this post. It may be your forum, but to put out inflammatory statements like this one is irresponsible to your members.
That might be your opinion, in my opinion the subject of the film is the abhorrent trashtalk that is despicable, inflammatory and irresponsible - it certainly is not comedy, it's more about making a quick buck.
If the US Government wishes to take sanctions against the regime then that's fine and dandy and might well be an appropriate response to their actions but this is just cheep commercialism of the worst sort.
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bryn: "That might be your opinion, in my opinion the subject of the film is the abhorrent trashtalk that is despicable, inflammatory and irresponsible - it certainly is not comedy, it's more about making a quick buck."
No, it's about Seth Rogan & James Franco. They are just whacky, always have been, hopefully always will be. The blame lies with Sony. Also tired of Sony being called an American company when it's Japanese.
No, it's about Seth Rogan & James Franco. They are just whacky, always have been, hopefully always will be. The blame lies with Sony. Also tired of Sony being called an American company when it's Japanese.
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Saint_;1469561 wrote: Actually, intelligent people take free speech quite literally. Without the bad, there is no way to judge the good.I didn't mention freedom of speech anywhere. I discussed good taste, something Sony Pictures executives blatantly lack. Films like The Interview soil society, the temporary cancellation of this particular instance is one small breath of fresh air downwind from a sewage farm. I despise the film, I despise those who made it and I despise those who would have watched it.
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AnneBoleyn;1469563 wrote: The blame lies with Sony. Also tired of Sony being called an American company when it's Japanese.
I do wish people would differentiate between Sony, a Japanese company, and Sony Pictures, a blight on the US cultural landscape formed by the merger of Columbia Pictures (resident in Hollywood since 1918) and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios (resident in Hollywood since 1924). Sony Pictures is a quintessentially American institution whose stock is owned by Sony.
I do wish people would differentiate between Sony, a Japanese company, and Sony Pictures, a blight on the US cultural landscape formed by the merger of Columbia Pictures (resident in Hollywood since 1918) and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios (resident in Hollywood since 1924). Sony Pictures is a quintessentially American institution whose stock is owned by Sony.
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Good taste is in your mouth. I enjoy Seth Rogan & James Franco & have for years. They're like the new Ghostbusters, or Cheech & Chong.
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AnneBoleyn;1469566 wrote: Good taste is in your mouth. I enjoy Seth Rogan & James Franco & have for years.
I'm delighted to say I have heard of neither of them.
I'm delighted to say I have heard of neither of them.
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FG;1469567 wrote: I'm delighted to say I have heard of neither of them.
Bully for you! :- D
Bully for you! :- D
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FG;1469564 wrote: I didn't mention freedom of speech anywhere. I discussed good taste, something Sony Pictures executives blatantly lack. Films like The Interview soil society, the temporary cancellation of this particular instance is one small breath of fresh air downwind from a sewage farm. I despise the film, I despise those who made it and I despise those who would have watched it.
Again you miss the point. This isn't about the content of the film. I wasn't going to see it either. It's about the right to make films, even films that are bad.
Did you know that a very important film, a documentary about a man who escaped from North Korean prisons, has now been canceled? That's what censorship does. It kills the good with the bad.
Again you miss the point. This isn't about the content of the film. I wasn't going to see it either. It's about the right to make films, even films that are bad.
Did you know that a very important film, a documentary about a man who escaped from North Korean prisons, has now been canceled? That's what censorship does. It kills the good with the bad.
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Saint_;1469570 wrote:
Did you know that a very important film, a documentary about a man who escaped from North Korean prisons, has now been canceled? That's what censorship does. It kills the good with the bad.
Could you tell me more about this please? My son was speculating that such a film Should should be made to counter cancellation of The Interview.
Did you know that a very important film, a documentary about a man who escaped from North Korean prisons, has now been canceled? That's what censorship does. It kills the good with the bad.
Could you tell me more about this please? My son was speculating that such a film Should should be made to counter cancellation of The Interview.
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Saint_;1469570 wrote: Again you miss the point. This isn't about the content of the film. I wasn't going to see it either. It's about the right to make films, even films that are bad.
Did you know that a very important film, a documentary about a man who escaped from North Korean prisons, has now been canceled? That's what censorship does. It kills the good with the bad.
Both the cancellation of The Interview release and of the making of the documentary are Chicken Little responses by fools who can't make valid judgement calls, neither is the responsibility of whoever trashed Sony Picture's databank. And I don't for a minute think offshoots of the North Korean military had any hand in it either.
Did you know that a very important film, a documentary about a man who escaped from North Korean prisons, has now been canceled? That's what censorship does. It kills the good with the bad.
Both the cancellation of The Interview release and of the making of the documentary are Chicken Little responses by fools who can't make valid judgement calls, neither is the responsibility of whoever trashed Sony Picture's databank. And I don't for a minute think offshoots of the North Korean military had any hand in it either.
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FG;1469572 wrote: Both the cancellation of The Interview release and of the making of the documentary are Chicken Little responses by fools who can't make valid judgement calls, neither is the responsibility of whoever trashed Sony Picture's databank. And I don't for a minute think offshoots of the North Korean military had any hand in it either.
I think the cancellation is really all about potential lawsuits, & their cost, if anyone is injured in any way anywhere near the theater where the movie would be playing.
I think the cancellation is really all about potential lawsuits, & their cost, if anyone is injured in any way anywhere near the theater where the movie would be playing.
The Interview
AnneBoleyn;1469573 wrote: I think the cancellation is really all about potential lawsuits, & their cost, if anyone is injured in any way anywhere near the theater where the movie would be playing.
Absolutely correct, but that kind of action has a name. It's called, "living in fear" and it means that the terrorists have won.
Absolutely correct, but that kind of action has a name. It's called, "living in fear" and it means that the terrorists have won.
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Saint_;1469574 wrote: Absolutely correct, but that kind of action has a name. It's called, "living in fear" and it means that the terrorists have won.
AKA living in fear of Lawsuits.
You are right, though, FEAR is the operative word.
AKA living in fear of Lawsuits.
You are right, though, FEAR is the operative word.
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Saint_;1469574 wrote: Absolutely correct, but that kind of action has a name. It's called, "living in fear" and it means that the terrorists have won.
We had a rule in England during the IRA mainland bombing campaign, it involved refusing to change your behavior while waiting for the police to catch those responsible. It's the grown-up way to respond. Any reaction is a vastly bigger disturbance than the original provocation and simply invites more provocation in future. It's rather like paying kidnappers, for example.
We had a rule in England during the IRA mainland bombing campaign, it involved refusing to change your behavior while waiting for the police to catch those responsible. It's the grown-up way to respond. Any reaction is a vastly bigger disturbance than the original provocation and simply invites more provocation in future. It's rather like paying kidnappers, for example.
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FG, or spot, by not knowing the work of James Franco, you have missed his sensational work in Milk, the first of the new batch of Planet of the Apes (lovely & sensitive film), his oscar nominated role in 127 Hours & playing Harry Osborne in the original Spiderman. He has a solid body of work & is currently a professor at NYU (my alma mater) where he teaches film.
Don't be so snobby, you're really cheating yourself. Seth Rogan, I love him, but he's a different animal!! He & JF have been in several goofy, mostly pot-themed films together, but JF has a very serious side as a professional, talented thespian.
Don't be so snobby, you're really cheating yourself. Seth Rogan, I love him, but he's a different animal!! He & JF have been in several goofy, mostly pot-themed films together, but JF has a very serious side as a professional, talented thespian.
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AnneBoleyn;1469579 wrote: as a professional, talented thespian.You're seriously mistaken. Professional, talented thespians serve apprenticeships at the Royal Shakespeare Company, they perform in films to subsidize the major component of their professional life which is stage acting.
Very little emerges from the Hollywood film production system that has any artistic merit whatever. The product isn't entertainment, it's naked cultural imperialism. It's a very long while since I last polluted my mind by watching a sample.
Very little emerges from the Hollywood film production system that has any artistic merit whatever. The product isn't entertainment, it's naked cultural imperialism. It's a very long while since I last polluted my mind by watching a sample.
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Saint_;1469561 wrote: So...are you a Holocaust denier as well?
To follow this up for a moment, Saint - isn't Holocaust Denial a matter of free speech? Would you not support the right of deniers of the Holocaust to speak their minds freely and openly? If not, what other speech would you like to censor?
And no, I'm fully aware of the nature and factual basis of the Holocaust. As you perfectly well know.
To follow this up for a moment, Saint - isn't Holocaust Denial a matter of free speech? Would you not support the right of deniers of the Holocaust to speak their minds freely and openly? If not, what other speech would you like to censor?
And no, I'm fully aware of the nature and factual basis of the Holocaust. As you perfectly well know.
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FG;1469598 wrote: You're seriously mistaken. Professional, talented thespians serve apprenticeships at the Royal Shakespeare Company, they perform in films to subsidize the major component of their professional life which is stage acting.
Very little emerges from the Hollywood film production system that has any artistic merit whatever. The product isn't entertainment, it's naked cultural imperialism. It's a very long while since I last polluted my mind by watching a sample.
Apparently you have never seen "Blazing Saddles"
Very little emerges from the Hollywood film production system that has any artistic merit whatever. The product isn't entertainment, it's naked cultural imperialism. It's a very long while since I last polluted my mind by watching a sample.
Apparently you have never seen "Blazing Saddles"
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YZGI;1469601 wrote: Apparently you have never seen "Blazing Saddles"
I may, perhaps, have overstated my position. There is, as you say, Blazing Saddles.
I may, perhaps, have overstated my position. There is, as you say, Blazing Saddles.
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I knew you would come around, thanks for the laugh.
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FG;1469598 wrote: You're seriously mistaken. Professional, talented thespians serve apprenticeships at the Royal Shakespeare Company, they perform in films to subsidize the major component of their professional life which is stage acting.
Very little emerges from the Hollywood film production system that has any artistic merit whatever. The product isn't entertainment, it's naked cultural imperialism. It's a very long while since I last polluted my mind by watching a sample.
Grouch.
Very little emerges from the Hollywood film production system that has any artistic merit whatever. The product isn't entertainment, it's naked cultural imperialism. It's a very long while since I last polluted my mind by watching a sample.
Grouch.
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James Franco has theater credits & is currently on Broadway in Of Mice & Men.
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FG;1469556 wrote: I note from today's Independent thatUS intelligence officials have reportedly concluded that North Korea is behind the recent cyber-attack on Sony Pictures. The wide-ranging hack of Sony’s computer systems is believed to have been a response to the Hollywood studio’s comedy film The Interview, which depicts the death of North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un. An unnamed US government official told NBC News, “We have found linkage to the North Korean government.
Sony has now cancelled the Christmas Day release of The Interview [...]
The Interview: Sony Pictures cancels release of Kim Jong-Un assassination film as intelligence officials link cyber-attacks to North Korea - News - Films - The Independent
The world is a slightly cleaner place this week in consequence. Why scabrous odure like The Interview should exist is a matter of bafflement. Any audience for such unedifying embarrassment should be utterly ashamed of itself. One only needs to imagine a film in which a real-life current Western leader is assassinated on screen to cheers from the audience to realize how corrupting the entire notion of making a 'comedy' like this really is.
Bad cess to Sony Pictures. They made the mess, they can lie in it. As for the prats who would pay money to watch such bileful bad taste and laugh, words are inadequate.I can appreciate your opinion on this issue, though I think I recall something to the effect of celebrating the existence and expression of cultural differences. Hadn't I seen you write that in the past?
Sony has now cancelled the Christmas Day release of The Interview [...]
The Interview: Sony Pictures cancels release of Kim Jong-Un assassination film as intelligence officials link cyber-attacks to North Korea - News - Films - The Independent
The world is a slightly cleaner place this week in consequence. Why scabrous odure like The Interview should exist is a matter of bafflement. Any audience for such unedifying embarrassment should be utterly ashamed of itself. One only needs to imagine a film in which a real-life current Western leader is assassinated on screen to cheers from the audience to realize how corrupting the entire notion of making a 'comedy' like this really is.
Bad cess to Sony Pictures. They made the mess, they can lie in it. As for the prats who would pay money to watch such bileful bad taste and laugh, words are inadequate.I can appreciate your opinion on this issue, though I think I recall something to the effect of celebrating the existence and expression of cultural differences. Hadn't I seen you write that in the past?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
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ahso!;1469617 wrote: i can appreciate your opinion on this issue, though i think i recall something to the effect of celebrating the existence and expression of cultural differences. Hadn't i seen you write that in the past?
missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-4
missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-4
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Ahso!;1469617 wrote: I can appreciate your opinion on this issue, though I think I recall something to the effect of celebrating the existence and expression of cultural differences. Hadn't I seen you write that in the past?
Very much so, but the issue of cultural imperialism remains. These drearily obscene Hollywood propaganda 'comedies' are slated for worldwide release, with worldwide publicity and worldwide consumption. It's American Exceptionalism writ large. I am not amused that the notion of regime change ordered by US intelligence agencies can be treated as comic. Blowback, in an asymmetric world, is pretty well bound to be illegal, wouldn't you say? It's still an inevitable consequence of the dictatorial behavior of the US since the eighties.
There's an article relating to all this from a broader perspective, let me find a link... America: Australia's Dangerous Ally | The National Interest
And a sentence or two? Why not...The idea of American exceptionalism, which has always been present in the United States, has gone far beyond all comprehension in the years of America’s absolute supremacy. It has created a different nation, a different society. Such ideas influence American foreign policy in ways that make it much more difficult to achieve a secure and safe path in the future. Our task is not to embrace America, but to preserve ourselves from its reckless overreach.When you see a former prime minister of Australia writing that harshly you really ought to consider the cause.
Very much so, but the issue of cultural imperialism remains. These drearily obscene Hollywood propaganda 'comedies' are slated for worldwide release, with worldwide publicity and worldwide consumption. It's American Exceptionalism writ large. I am not amused that the notion of regime change ordered by US intelligence agencies can be treated as comic. Blowback, in an asymmetric world, is pretty well bound to be illegal, wouldn't you say? It's still an inevitable consequence of the dictatorial behavior of the US since the eighties.
There's an article relating to all this from a broader perspective, let me find a link... America: Australia's Dangerous Ally | The National Interest
And a sentence or two? Why not...The idea of American exceptionalism, which has always been present in the United States, has gone far beyond all comprehension in the years of America’s absolute supremacy. It has created a different nation, a different society. Such ideas influence American foreign policy in ways that make it much more difficult to achieve a secure and safe path in the future. Our task is not to embrace America, but to preserve ourselves from its reckless overreach.When you see a former prime minister of Australia writing that harshly you really ought to consider the cause.
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Preserve Yourselves!!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl
Yes, please, show some restraint.
Yes, please, show some restraint.
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The Interview
AnneBoleyn;1469653 wrote: Preserve Yourselves!!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl
Yes, please, show some restraint.
If you'd like to discuss Malcolm Fraser's article I'd be delighted. The National Interest is surely a reputable enough magazine to pay attention to, as is the article's author. I hope you at least red what he wrote.
Yes, please, show some restraint.
If you'd like to discuss Malcolm Fraser's article I'd be delighted. The National Interest is surely a reputable enough magazine to pay attention to, as is the article's author. I hope you at least red what he wrote.
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AnneBoleyn
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The Interview
"I hope you at least red what he wrote."
What's black & white & re(a)d all over?
I promise to read it tomorrow, as I am leaving now for the night &, just a guess, I think I'll be sympathetic to his point of view. Not what you limeys consider your 'typical' American, as I'm sure you remember. Good night, now. Don't have grumpy dreams.
What's black & white & re(a)d all over?
I promise to read it tomorrow, as I am leaving now for the night &, just a guess, I think I'll be sympathetic to his point of view. Not what you limeys consider your 'typical' American, as I'm sure you remember. Good night, now. Don't have grumpy dreams.
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The Interview
AnneBoleyn;1469657 wrote: "I hope you at least red what he wrote."
Had I written I hope you at least read what he wrote it's impossible for anyone to know whether I meant read pronounced "red", in the past, or read pronounced "reed", sometime in the future. My typing "red" clarifies the issue at the expense of spelling. I think clarity takes precedence.
What's black and white and red all over is a nun cleaning a frog-blender.
Had I written I hope you at least read what he wrote it's impossible for anyone to know whether I meant read pronounced "red", in the past, or read pronounced "reed", sometime in the future. My typing "red" clarifies the issue at the expense of spelling. I think clarity takes precedence.
What's black and white and red all over is a nun cleaning a frog-blender.
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The Interview
FG;1469651 wrote: Very much so, but the issue of cultural imperialism remains. These drearily obscene Hollywood propaganda 'comedies' are slated for worldwide release, with worldwide publicity and worldwide consumption. It's American Exceptionalism writ large. I am not amused that the notion of regime change ordered by US intelligence agencies can be treated as comic. Blowback, in an asymmetric world, is pretty well bound to be illegal, wouldn't you say? It's still an inevitable consequence of the dictatorial behavior of the US since the eighties.
There's an article relating to all this from a broader perspective, let me find a link... America: Australia's Dangerous Ally | The National Interest
And a sentence or two? Why not...The idea of American exceptionalism, which has always been present in the United States, has gone far beyond all comprehension in the years of America’s absolute supremacy. It has created a different nation, a different society. Such ideas influence American foreign policy in ways that make it much more difficult to achieve a secure and safe path in the future. Our task is not to embrace America, but to preserve ourselves from its reckless overreach.When you see a former prime minister of Australia writing that harshly you really ought to consider the cause.I don't think cultural imperialism is unique to America, whether it be commercial, political or individual, with military might as a current exception, though not unique historically. I mean, could not your post be interpreted as an attempt to influence the opinion of other's perception of Americans and their culture?
I read the article and I think I understand what Fraser is saying in it. But it is an opinion piece from his cultural perspective, is it not.
I may or may not agree with exceptionalism in any form, but what you and Fraser are talking about, American Exceptionalism, is in fact part of American culture and that is my point.
There's an article relating to all this from a broader perspective, let me find a link... America: Australia's Dangerous Ally | The National Interest
And a sentence or two? Why not...The idea of American exceptionalism, which has always been present in the United States, has gone far beyond all comprehension in the years of America’s absolute supremacy. It has created a different nation, a different society. Such ideas influence American foreign policy in ways that make it much more difficult to achieve a secure and safe path in the future. Our task is not to embrace America, but to preserve ourselves from its reckless overreach.When you see a former prime minister of Australia writing that harshly you really ought to consider the cause.I don't think cultural imperialism is unique to America, whether it be commercial, political or individual, with military might as a current exception, though not unique historically. I mean, could not your post be interpreted as an attempt to influence the opinion of other's perception of Americans and their culture?
I read the article and I think I understand what Fraser is saying in it. But it is an opinion piece from his cultural perspective, is it not.
I may or may not agree with exceptionalism in any form, but what you and Fraser are talking about, American Exceptionalism, is in fact part of American culture and that is my point.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
The Interview
FG;1469600 wrote: To follow this up for a moment, Saint - isn't Holocaust Denial a matter of free speech? Would you not support the right of deniers of the Holocaust to speak their minds freely and openly? If not, what other speech would you like to censor? And no, I'm fully aware of the nature and factual basis of the Holocaust. As you perfectly well know.
Again you don't get it. Holocaust deniers are people who are trying to censor or rewrite something bad. Just like you are doing by advocating censoring this movie.
Again you don't get it. Holocaust deniers are people who are trying to censor or rewrite something bad. Just like you are doing by advocating censoring this movie.
The Interview
FG;1469651 wrote: Very much so, but the issue of cultural imperialism remains.
There's an article relating to all this from a broader perspective, let me find a link... America: Australia's Dangerous Ally | The National Interest
Pfft. That article is nothing but whining and sour grapes. Heck, he doesn't even give America credit for bringing down the Berlin Wall. He acts like it was some kind of act of God or something.
As for American exceptionalism, well and why not? We are the most powerful country on the planet economically, culturally, and militarily. That is the very definition of exceptional. Rome thought it was exceptional when it controlled the known world... and it was! The British bragged that the "sun never set on the British empire" while they reined supreme.
Now it is America's time and a good case can be made for the fact that America has had as much of an impact on history as either of those empires had. And we're only two hundred years old!
There's an article relating to all this from a broader perspective, let me find a link... America: Australia's Dangerous Ally | The National Interest
Pfft. That article is nothing but whining and sour grapes. Heck, he doesn't even give America credit for bringing down the Berlin Wall. He acts like it was some kind of act of God or something.
As for American exceptionalism, well and why not? We are the most powerful country on the planet economically, culturally, and militarily. That is the very definition of exceptional. Rome thought it was exceptional when it controlled the known world... and it was! The British bragged that the "sun never set on the British empire" while they reined supreme.
Now it is America's time and a good case can be made for the fact that America has had as much of an impact on history as either of those empires had. And we're only two hundred years old!
The Interview
Saint_;1469687 wrote: Again you don't get it. Holocaust deniers are people who are trying to censor or rewrite something bad. Just like you are doing by advocating censoring this movie.
Holocaust Deniers are people who deny the Holocaust ever happened, end of.
If you wish to have a different meaning then use a different term.
If someone made a movie turning 9/11 into a comedy would you defend that as freedom of speech?
Holocaust Deniers are people who deny the Holocaust ever happened, end of.
If you wish to have a different meaning then use a different term.
If someone made a movie turning 9/11 into a comedy would you defend that as freedom of speech?
The Interview
Bryn Mawr;1469689 wrote: Holocaust Deniers are people who deny the Holocaust ever happened, end of.
If you wish to have a different meaning then use a different term.
If someone made a movie turning 9/11 into a comedy would you defend that as freedom of speech?
That is a good point.
Now why do I keep picturing Henry Higgins when I read Spots posts?
If you wish to have a different meaning then use a different term.
If someone made a movie turning 9/11 into a comedy would you defend that as freedom of speech?
That is a good point.
Now why do I keep picturing Henry Higgins when I read Spots posts?
The Interview
Saint_;1469688 wrote: We are the most powerful country on the planet economically, culturally, and militarily.
China Just Overtook The US As The World's Largest Economy
*Cough*...........Are you being serious here Saint ?
China Just Overtook The US As The World's Largest Economy
*Cough*...........Are you being serious here Saint ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Betty Boop
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The Interview
Bruv;1469692 wrote: China Just Overtook The US As The World's Largest Economy
*Cough*...........Are you being serious here Saint ?
You beat me to it, I was just about to paste that story up too :sneaky:
*Cough*...........Are you being serious here Saint ?
You beat me to it, I was just about to paste that story up too :sneaky:
The Interview
Betty Boop;1469693 wrote: You beat me to it, I was just about to paste that story up too :sneaky:
Sorry
Sorry
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Interview
Bryn Mawr;1469689 wrote:
If someone made a movie turning 9/11 into a comedy would you defend that as freedom of speech?
I would decry it, despise it, boycott it, and encourage others to do so...but I would defend its right to made made. Freedom isn't easy, it takes courage. Something that Sony doesn't have.
If someone made a movie turning 9/11 into a comedy would you defend that as freedom of speech?
I would decry it, despise it, boycott it, and encourage others to do so...but I would defend its right to made made. Freedom isn't easy, it takes courage. Something that Sony doesn't have.
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The Interview
Saint_;1469700 wrote: I would decry it, despise it, boycott it, and encourage others to do so...but I would defend its right to made made.Even if it were made in Iran, out of interest?
How about if it were an Iranian movie comedy about a pair of Iranian reporters successfully assassinating the incumbent US president?
The thing is, your first amendment rights only apply to US citizens. The rest of the world has no rights whatever under US law. Or do we? It's a real question, I'd quite like a sensible answer.
How about if it were an Iranian movie comedy about a pair of Iranian reporters successfully assassinating the incumbent US president?
The thing is, your first amendment rights only apply to US citizens. The rest of the world has no rights whatever under US law. Or do we? It's a real question, I'd quite like a sensible answer.
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The Interview
Saint_;1469700 wrote: I would decry it, despise it, boycott it, and encourage others to do so...but I would defend its right to made made. Freedom isn't easy, it takes courage. Something that Sony doesn't have.
Then why do you deny me the right to decry and despise this film? I will certainly boycott it and here I am actively encouraging others to do so.
Then why do you deny me the right to decry and despise this film? I will certainly boycott it and here I am actively encouraging others to do so.
The Interview
FG;1469701 wrote: Even if it were made in Iran, out of interest?
How about if it were an Iranian movie comedy about a pair of Iranian reporters successfully assassinating the incumbent US president?
Exactly the same.
The thing is, your first amendment rights only apply to US citizens.
Incorrectly stated, we hold that the first amendment rights are truths that are self-evident and apply to everyone. It is our law in America, but truth is truth anywhere. America is the first country ever founded under ideals, instead of evolving from past monarchy and tribal rule.
The rest of the world has no rights whatever under US law. Or do we? It's a real question, I'd quite like a sensible answer.
We believe in rights for all mankind. Human rights. And, even though we stagger and fall on our face sometimes in that category, one of the best things about America is that we bring our problems out in the light and strive to be better. The recent release of the CIA torture documents is a good case in point. Know any other country that would release that kind of dirt on itself?
That is another reason America is exceptional.
How about if it were an Iranian movie comedy about a pair of Iranian reporters successfully assassinating the incumbent US president?
Exactly the same.
The thing is, your first amendment rights only apply to US citizens.
Incorrectly stated, we hold that the first amendment rights are truths that are self-evident and apply to everyone. It is our law in America, but truth is truth anywhere. America is the first country ever founded under ideals, instead of evolving from past monarchy and tribal rule.
The rest of the world has no rights whatever under US law. Or do we? It's a real question, I'd quite like a sensible answer.
We believe in rights for all mankind. Human rights. And, even though we stagger and fall on our face sometimes in that category, one of the best things about America is that we bring our problems out in the light and strive to be better. The recent release of the CIA torture documents is a good case in point. Know any other country that would release that kind of dirt on itself?
That is another reason America is exceptional.
The Interview
Bryn Mawr;1469702 wrote: Then why do you deny me the right to decry and despise this film? I will certainly boycott it and here I am actively encouraging others to do so.
I'm not denying you the right to scry and despise it, I'm against your statement that it should never have been made. I'm against its message as well, but I abhor censorship.
I'm not denying you the right to scry and despise it, I'm against your statement that it should never have been made. I'm against its message as well, but I abhor censorship.
The Interview
FG;1469556 wrote: Why scabrous odure like The Interview should exist is a matter of bafflement.
You shouldn't be baffled that true freedom of speech will also include scabrous odure as well as inspiring message. It should be apparent.
You shouldn't be baffled that true freedom of speech will also include scabrous odure as well as inspiring message. It should be apparent.
The Interview
Saint_;1469703 wrote: Incorrectly stated, we hold that the first amendment rights are truths that are self-evident and apply to everyone. It is our law in America, but truth is truth anywhere. America is the first country ever founded under ideals, instead of evolving from past monarchy and tribal rule.
'Everyone' meaning 'Everyone in America'. To assume that your own defined rules should apply to everyone else in the world is downright arrogant of an upstart infant nation, as this would also include the Right to Bear Arms, for instance. Not 'everyone' is the rest of the world would want the 'rights' that you try to impose on them.
'Everyone' meaning 'Everyone in America'. To assume that your own defined rules should apply to everyone else in the world is downright arrogant of an upstart infant nation, as this would also include the Right to Bear Arms, for instance. Not 'everyone' is the rest of the world would want the 'rights' that you try to impose on them.
The Interview
"We hold that the first amendment rights are truths that are self-evident and apply to everyone"
Guantanamo Bay ?
Guantanamo Bay ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth