Rochdale

[Oscar Namechange]

Let's forget the politics. Let's forget which Party we vote for. Let's overlook Nick Griffin warning about this 8 years ago. Forget all of that and ask, how the heck did our country allow this?

This Is not limited to Rochdale, other cities are seeing numbers of grooming trials In the process.

How did this start? Why wasn't It stopped ? What do we do now as a country?

BBC News - Rotherham child abuse scandal: 1,400 children exploited, report finds

[Bruv]

We can stop being far too PC.

That is a huge hurdle, breaking down the natural reticence of inter ethnic dealings, or recruit more ethnic police to do the investigation.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1462883 wrote: We can stop being far too PC.

That is a huge hurdle, breaking down the natural reticence of inter ethnic dealings, or recruit more ethnic police to do the investigation. If you read the part In the article about the authorities being too afraid of being branded racist, this I agree, Is the PC we have had made Into almost a culture that Instills fear Into just normal folk doing what Is right, speaking out and standing up.

Again, as a country, we have to question how did we get to the point where people were too afraid to speak out... even when children were being gang raped?

It really needs more leaders In the Pakistani communities to also come out and condemn. Some have In the past, but It needs more.

[gmc]

It's not just the fear of beinmg racist angle it's also an attutude that some people and particularly some types of girls - those in care and from housing schenmes girls in particular are of little worth.

This kind of thing desn't help

Former judge says rape conviction rates will not improve until 'women stop getting so drunk' - Home News - UK - The Independent

It's quite simple if someone cannot consent then it's rape. Same with kids. if a child goes in to a house with four men and is gang raped it is still rape even if she doesn't resist and went in willingly. Naiveity or stupidity is not a crime taking advantage of it is.

[Oscar Namechange]

gmc;1462920 wrote: It's not just the fear of beinmg racist angle it's also an attutude that some people and particularly some types of girls - those in care and from housing schenmes girls in particular are of little worth.

This kind of thing desn't help

Former judge says rape conviction rates will not improve until 'women stop getting so drunk' - Home News - UK - The Independent

It's quite simple if someone cannot consent then it's rape. Same with kids. if a child goes in to a house with four men and is gang raped it is still rape even if she doesn't resist and went in willingly. Naiveity or stupidity is not a crime taking advantage of it is.


An estimated 1,400 children !!! That's just one city... what about Oldham, Birmingham, Manchester etc etc , how many more thousands?

I read somewhere last year that a senior police officer claimed there were currently over 10,000 children that have been groomed, abused and raped In this country. Last year, there were 54 trials In the process waiting to be tried.

This Is a pandemic, yet so little has been reported.... why ?

I really didn't want to go down this route, but sorry, I have to, to make a point.

When Griffin was prosecuted for Inciting Racial Hatred 8 years ago for warning about this In the North of England ( cleared by Jury ) It was first believed that this was just the police having It In for Nick as per usual... I don't do paranoia but now, 8 years on, many of us are asking, was Griffin deliberately silenced as he always believed? Whatever you think of him, he's often proved right. As Nick told people that the abusers were men predominately from Pakistani heritage, he was being racial but now this report confirms that.

Believe It or not, us far right loonies, agree with other Asian communities that the media really must stop reporting this scandal as ' Asian men'.... that Is not true. Let's be honest here, It's men of Pakistani heritage.

It's worth considering that authorities did Indeed know what was happening 8 years ago and just didn't want the scandal but now It's blown up Into a full scale pandemic akin to Savile.

I don't actually lay the blame on the authorities. I can fully understand the fear of speaking out and losing their livlihood and homes because they would be branded racist especially If they were aware of how the police and media portrayed Griffin 8 years ago.

The blame lies with the Governments who enforced the political correctness In order that the average man In the street was too afraid to question the mass Immigration policy of the Labour Party. What they Induced was a culture of fear that has now led to this.

I agree with you, because I know there were many families who turned to the BNP In desperation some years ago that their complaints to police about their children being groomed were Ignored. I do believe, as you say, that the girls were considered low worth should they come from council estates and single parents. But, having said that, I also know that some of the girls were not as others had been trypcially stero-typed. Some did happen to come from well to do families but had just got caught up In the wrong crowd. I know Nick went to visit one family In Swindon where It was Implied by police that the parents were being racist for daring to suggest that a johhny foriegner gang were grooming their daughter.

It just leaves me wondering, how much do we really not know? How much has been covered up?

If you think that's farfetched to ask, then ask yourself this.... Who would have thought that 10 years ago, the lovable Sir Jimmy Savile would turn out to be the countries most prolific rapist and child abuser.?

[Bruv]

Begging your pardon but please stop putting the slime bag foreward as the new messiah. It is becoming boring, the same old "Nobody is listening to us poor Brits"

BS.....he was just another voice amongst many others.

He was an unreliable outsider with ulterior motives, if only a quarter of the parents or carers who had concerns had been listened to......that big IF word again?

No denying there was and still is a problem, but if there are wolves prowling in the woods, you equip your children to handle the problem, or do your best to protect them.

The blame is spread widely, between Police, Social Services, Parent/Carers, not forgetting the perpetrators, and realistically, as the parent of a wayward lad, some of the victims themselves to an extent......

Where the buck stops is debatable, everybody involved has been slack, the past cannot be altered, lets hope the lessons that had to be learned have been learned, and that all the shattered victims get the support they need.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1462939 wrote: Begging your pardon but please stop putting the slime bag foreward as the new messiah. It is becoming boring, the same old "Nobody is listening to us poor Brits"

BS.....he was just another voice amongst many others.

He was an unreliable outsider with ulterior motives, if only a quarter of the parents or carers who had concerns had been listened to......that big IF word again?

No denying there was and still is a problem, but if there are wolves prowling in the woods, you equip your children to handle the problem, or do your best to protect them.

The blame is spread widely, between Police, Social Services, Parent/Carers, not forgetting the perpetrators, and realistically, as the parent of a wayward lad, some of the victims themselves to an extent......

Where the buck stops is debatable, everybody involved has been slack, the past cannot be altered, lets hope the lessons that had to be learned have been learned, and that all the shattered victims get the support they need. Begging your pardon....

5 years ago, another regional for the Party put together a detailed report and sent It to all authorities after she stayed In Rochdale and carried out her own Investigation. I've just been talking on the phone to her, and she stresses that some girls were not slags from council estates as she was told but some were from good families.

The BNP Is not going to do anything about these lastest revelations because as she said, we've done It all, years ago and we're not exploiting the misery of these children.... so, there will be no ' we told you so' campaign for the Party.

Let's leave all that aside and move on here...

How do we stop this culture and nd It onc and for all.

[FourPart]

A few weeks ago 38 Degrees put out a petition to ban a poster that read something like "75% Rape Victims Have Been Drinking" (probably not the exact figures or wording, but that was the basic idea).

The campaign was protesting that it was placing the onus of blame on the woman. I don't see it that way at all. I just see it as a warning to women to remain aware of the dangers & to be careful not to put themselves at too much risk. It was for this reason I didn't sign the petition. I found it an unwarranted claim.

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1462946 wrote: The campaign was protesting that it was placing the onus of blame on the woman. I don't see it that way at all. I just see it as a warning to women to remain aware of the dangers & to be careful not to put themselves at too much risk. It was for this reason I didn't sign the petition. I found it an unwarranted claim.


I have to agree, I don't put the onus on the women at all and I wouldn't have signed either.

It doesn't matter how comotosed a woman Is due to alcohol or drugs, the onus Is on the man who's chosen to commit a crime by Invading her body without consent. However, I am all for a campaign to warn young women of the pitfalls of rape trials and the difficulty even the best prosecution lawyer In th country has, when you have the victim unable to remember details of the assault.

Some of these victims suffer at the hands of extremely aggressive defence lawyers under cross examination and many rapists do get off simply because the victim's evidence and recollection Is so vague.

[Bruv]

If you visit the Souk or travel on the London underground as it happens, you have to be aware of certain dangers.

When purchasing that rug in the market,best to walk away several times before the accepting the price.

On the tube better not make eye contact with the strange fellow who keeps cradling his head in his hands and groaning.

In both instances you may be taken advantage of, which in no way excuses the rug seller or the man with mental health issues.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1462966 wrote: If you visit the Souk or travel on the London underground as it happens, you have to be aware of certain dangers.

When purchasing that rug in the market,best to walk away several times before the accepting the price.

On the tube better not make eye contact with the strange fellow who keeps cradling his head in his hands and groaning.

In both instances you may be taken advantage of, which in no way excuses the rug seller or the man with mental health issues.


So are you saying that a female victim of rape, should she have been drunk, put herself In that position ?

Back to topic... this tonight

True scale of Rotherham child sex abuse was 'downplayed' - ITV News

One of those reports that was Ignored or downplayed was from my colleague who gave a detailed report on Rotheram 5 years ago. I have a copy somewhere of that report.

Howevr much anyone frowns on the political party who submitted a report, the crime here, Is why that and others was Ignored.

How many children could they have saved from had authorities downplayed those concerns years ago?

It's criminal.

[Oscar Namechange]

Another reason this Is so criminal..

Who remembers this?

The same authorities who downplayed the grooming pandemic are the very people who removed children from a loving foster home because their parents had voted UKIP

Rotherham council holds inquiry after taking Ukip couple's foster children | UK news | The Observer

Couldn't make It up could you ?

[FourPart]

I can't answer for the case, as I don't know enough about it, apart from all the political parties suddenly making use of it for their campaigning standpoint.

With a major shortage of Foster Homes, I find it difficult to believe that any Council, regardless of which party rules it, would retract kids from their Foster Parents without due cause, the evidence for which probably hasn't been released.

By Labour already having stated that they don't condone it & that they are running an enquiry into the matter does tend to confirm that it's not a matter of Party Politics.

It's a bit like one paper telling the story of of a disabled man, physically crippled & blind in one eye, being hounded for his Religious beliefs on the racist basis of his ethnic origin.

The case in hand...

Abu Hamza.

Ok, a bit of an extreme example, but it demonstrates how a story may be spun.

I have no doubt at all that the levels of child abuse are as stated. What is of even more concern, though, is that it's more likely that Rotherham is simply showing representative figures of what is happening everywhere else. The only difference being that they're actually unearthing the cases in Rotherham. After all, is there any reason why Rotherham, in particular, should have any more Sex Offenders than, say, Cleethorpe?

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1462977 wrote: I have no doubt at all that the levels of child abuse are as stated. What is of even more concern, though, is that it's more likely that Rotherham is simply showing representative figures of what is happening everywhere else. The only difference being that they're actually unearthing the cases in Rotherham. After all, is there any reason why Rotherham, in particular, should have any more Sex Offenders than, say, Cleethorpe?


I am not going to use this thread as a Party point scoring basis but you'll have to trust me when I say, I know and have evidence that Rotherham Is just one city. Many of the men from other area's are yet to be tried but I'm guessing , when they are, It'll make this scandal nationwide. The only thing I'll say here Is that when Nick Griffin goes public with an Issue or eg something he's raised In the European Court, he always does his research first. Let's just say that 8 years ago, he did a huge amount of research and I have that research myself. I'm not posting It here because I'd be point scoring.

You raise a good point of ' Is there any reason why Rotherham'.

Well, Yes, there Is. Rotherham like many other Northern cities since the closing of the Mine's and the closure of Industry such as the cotton mills and textile Industry, It has become an area of social deprevation with very little Investment and unemployment Is high. This creates a society where sink estates are more In abundance with unemployd or single mothers.

Going by the report 8 years ago, In the main, these men do not target girls from wealthy families although there are some victims from wealthier families. They have deliberately targeted girls who live on sink estates In a deprived area with high unemployment where money Is tight. They also target girls In care homes.

make no mistake, this Is not about opportunist rape. ie young girl walking home at night being dragged Into bushes and raped by an opportunist. This has always been organised crime where the background of the girls has been deliberately targeted.

It starts with just one young ' Asian' male getting friendly with the girl, meeting her from school, making her feel special, showering her with gifts, telling her, he's now her boyfriend. She's flattered at all the attention she's getting. She feels special especially If she's In care.

Very often, the man will follow with alienating her from her family,so she ends up totally Isolated and relient on him.

Then he starts her on drugs with ' If you love me, you'll take It'

When It reaches a point where he wants to transport her to contacts to sell her for sex or to be gang raped, the threats come. If you tell, we'll kill your family. Very often by that stage, they are being beaten, doused In petrol and their lives are spent In fear.

Why Rotheram? Because of high unemployment, social deprevation, welfare dependant single Mums... all make the kids easy pickings.

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1462990 wrote: I am not going to use this thread as a Party point scoring basis but you'll have to trust me when I say....................


I shall start counting how many times you say that if your not careful..................

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1462997 wrote: I shall start counting how many times you say that if your not careful.................. I'd rather have a spanking.

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1462998 wrote: I'd rather have a spanking.


At least four in this thread so far.

I have read Aesop's.......I know all about the briar patch

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1463001 wrote:

I have read Aesop's Is he the geezer who Invented the bath plug?

[FourPart]

Oscar Namechange;1462990 wrote: Why Rotheram? Because of high unemployment, social deprevation, welfare dependant single Mums... all make the kids easy pickings.
Regrettably there's no shortage of towns that fit those criteria.

[kazalala]

I was watching some of this on the news this morning. Shocking. One woman who had been a victim said she told the police and was told ,, well what do you expect? She asked for help and was told no, so where does she go from there, She said it was the norm of growing up for many of them.

I really dont care that Griffin said it,, among many others,, but the fact is, the girls themselves said it and were ignored, parents of the girls said it and were ignored,, that imo is of far more importance than a politician being ignored. I am watching with interest to see if anyone is held responsible.

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1463012 wrote: Regrettably there's no shortage of towns that fit those criteria. Put It this way, all I'll say now, Is don't be surprised If In the next year or two, you will see the exact same headlines as Rotherham. I predict from the report I have from Nick, that those two will be Oldham and Dewsbury.

[Oscar Namechange]

kazalala;1463028 wrote: I was watching some of this on the news this morning. Shocking. One woman who had been a victim said she told the police and was told ,, well what do you expect? She asked for help and was told no, so where does she go from there, She said it was the norm of growing up for many of them.

I really dont care that Griffin said it,, among many others,, but the fact is, the girls themselves said it and were ignored, parents of the girls said it and were ignored,, that imo is of far more importance than a politician being ignored. I am watching with interest to see if anyone is held responsible.


Yes they were Ignored and In fact, that's why Griffin Initially became so Involved. Parents, even Grand parents became so frustrated and angry at being Ignored or It Implied their daughters had asked for It because they were deemed low worth, that, In desperation, they turned to the only man who'd listen. When he started digging 8 years ago, he was amazed to find that It wasn't just the off child.

As for those being held accounatble. I'm not so sure. Maybe, replaced In their jobs and demoted but you have to understand the culture of fear brought about by ridiculous political correctness and fiddling about with the Equality bill so any decent minded person became too afraid to speak out. I can fully understand that fear. I get hostility and accusations all the time simply because I'm guilty by association of the people I work with.

My only Issue Is with the Chief of Police for Rochdale as he had to have known the scale of allegations and chose to downplay It. To me, that's criminal. The one's I hold most accountable are those politicians who created that culture of fear among social workers and council staff who dare not risk their Incomes, their livelihoods and reputations by speaking out. Especially, and sorry but It has to be said, If 8 years ago, they are watching a leader of a political party on TV being arrested, prosecuted and dragged through the courts for speaking out on the exact same subject that they are witnessing before their very eyes.

As for how we stop this, I don't believe we can. The most honest debate I ever had on this was with my Pakistani origin, Muslim taxi driver I did the school runs with when the Oxford grooming trial started a year ago. In brief he told me this was about culture.

In Pakistan, most men like most Muslims are raised by the teachings of the Holy Qu'ran. The Prophet Mohammed Is Idolised and worshipped. So when It's read that the prophet took his wife at the age of 54 and she was 9 years old, with passages that read his bride at 9 Is ready for accepting ' love' from a man, then despite knowing UK law, some men believe the Qu'ran over-rides the law. There Is also the culture that women are treated as low worth by religions.

If what he told me Is true, then that culture has to be addressed. I don't think we have any government strong enough to address that culture difference. They are all still In la la land that we are all a jolly lovely multi-culteral Eutopia. To admit It Is about culture Is to admit that mass Immigration was a total failure as even Jack Straw came out and announced last year.

Something else that Is also a failure. In every country, especially Sweden, there are specialised units for children of rape and grooming where they can stay Indefinately for expert counselling and professional help. The grooming methods are very much akin to those who get sucked Into cults and have to be treated professionally before they can return to normal life.

We have one such unit In this country with just four places. So these children who may have been In the grip of groomers for years, alienated from their families, put on drugs, traumatised etc etc are literally thrown back on the streets as soon as the trial ends and expected to just get on with their lives. That Is outrageous. An adult rape victim would never be treated like that. We have absolutely nothing In place In this country to deal with the fall out to help these children.

I have a meeting tonight and we are actually discussing this and see what sort of campaign we can get going to address this.

[Bruv]

I believe that makes the score 6.

We all know why he became involved, if only he had some credibility.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1463049 wrote: I believe that makes the score 6.

We all know why he became involved, if only he had some credibility. It must really Irk you that the man you so despise has been so vindicated.

Why don't you offer some debate as to how this Is addressed as a country?

Bruv, you do not know Nick Griffin and you have absolutely no right to assume he got Involved simply for a politcal stance. The man has daughters of his own, he has Grand children and I don't care what you assume about him because of his politcal views, I know through working with him personally that he actually cares about the children Involved In this.

Three years ago, I met with him when he drove all the way to Swindon to talk to a family of a young girl. He organised a collection so the girl could have a much needed holiday with her family and from then on we never heard another word from him.

No photoshoot, no ringing the local press, no glorifying her misery.

You do not know the man. You know the persoona created by the media and I find some of your comments Insulting.

I will refrain from your baiting In future,

[kazalala]

Oscar Namechange;1463048 wrote: Yes they were Ignored and In fact, that's why Griffin Initially became so Involved. Parents, even Grand parents became so frustrated and angry at being Ignored or It Implied their daughters had asked for It because they were deemed low worth, that, In desperation, they turned to the only man who'd listen. When he started digging 8 years ago, he was amazed to find that It wasn't just the off child.

As for those being held accounatble. I'm not so sure. Maybe, replaced In their jobs and demoted but you have to understand the culture of fear brought about by ridiculous political correctness and fiddling about with the Equality bill so any decent minded person became too afraid to speak out. I can fully understand that fear. I get hostility and accusations all the time simply because I'm guilty by association of the people I work with.

My only Issue Is with the Chief of Police for Rochdale as he had to have known the scale of allegations and chose to downplay It. To me, that's criminal. The one's I hold most accountable are those politicians who created that culture of fear among social workers and council staff who dare not risk their Incomes, their livelihoods and reputations by speaking out. Especially, and sorry but It has to be said, If 8 years ago, they are watching a leader of a political party on TV being arrested, prosecuted and dragged through the courts for speaking out on the exact same subject that they are witnessing before their very eyes.

As for how we stop this, I don't believe we can. The most honest debate I ever had on this was with my Pakistani origin, Muslim taxi driver I did the school runs with when the Oxford grooming trial started a year ago. In brief he told me this was about culture.

In Pakistan, most men like most Muslims are raised by the teachings of the Holy Qu'ran. The Prophet Mohammed Is Idolised and worshipped. So when It's read that the prophet took his wife at the age of 54 and she was 9 years old, with passages that read his bride at 9 Is ready for accepting ' love' from a man, then despite knowing UK law, some men believe the Qu'ran over-rides the law. There Is also the culture that women are treated as low worth by religions.

If what he told me Is true, then that culture has to be addressed. I don't think we have any government strong enough to address that culture difference. They are all still In la la land that we are all a jolly lovely multi-culteral Eutopia. To admit It Is about culture Is to admit that mass Immigration was a total failure as even Jack Straw came out and announced last year.

Something else that Is also a failure. In every country, especially Sweden, there are specialised units for children of rape and grooming where they can stay Indefinately for expert counselling and professional help. The grooming methods are very much akin to those who get sucked Into cults and have to be treated professionally before they can return to normal life.

We have one such unit In this country with just four places. So these children who may have been In the grip of groomers for years, alienated from their families, put on drugs, traumatised etc etc are literally thrown back on the streets as soon as the trial ends and expected to just get on with their lives. That Is outrageous. An adult rape victim would never be treated like that. We have absolutely nothing In place In this country to deal with the fall out to help these children.

I have a meeting tonight and we are actually discussing this and see what sort of campaign we can get going to address this.
Is the Chief of Police the one who cant be sacked? voted in by the people. He was an mp in the Labour party and quit cos they were telling him to resign. Instead he quit the party and is insisting he wont quit his job.

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1463052 wrote: It must really Irk you that the man you so despise has been so vindicated.


I don't know why the fellow is actually in this thread, there are 1400 more deserving, but they have hardly been mentioned.

I don't despise him, and he hasn't been vindicated.

His was just another known biased voice amongst many others.

Have you considered that if it had been anyone else that put forward the idea that dark skinned men were targetting white girls for sex........they might have been listened to?

Get your head around that one missus

I will refrain from your baiting In future,


I shant stop mentioning the inappropriate use of Mr Griffin at every opportunity though.

[FourPart]

I've not been able to find a statistical record of Child Sex Crimes broken down, by region, but even then, at most it would only show those that had been reported.

I did, however, find this item on the Daily Mail site (so should be taken with a pinch of salt) showing the regions where known / convicted Sex Offenders have gone on the run.

At a pinch it 'might' be interpreted that these number of known fugitives are in proportion to the number of convicted Sex Offenders in any 1 region (e.g. If 1 in 10 offenders absconds, then there might be 30 wherever there are 3 at large).

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1463062 wrote: I don't know why the fellow is actually in this thread, there are 1400 more deserving, but they have hardly been mentioned.

.


He's In the thread because your bias can not see beyond and see the relevance.

He Is relevant because I have offered a perfectly valid point regarding the culture of fear that was created that In turn saw police, social services and council staff too afraid to speak out and stop the Rochdale grooming thus seeing more victims, when on TV 8 years prior, they saw a politician arrested and prosecuted for speaking out on the very subject that they are now being accused of covering up.

That chummy, Is highly relevant...



So ner

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1463064 wrote: I've not been able to find a statistical record of Child Sex Crimes broken down, by region,).


I have one.

It Is also broken down by name, conviction and race.

I may need permission to post It here. I'll have to ask tomorrow.

[Oscar Namechange]

kazalala;1463055 wrote: Is the Chief of Police the one who cant be sacked? voted in by the people. He was an mp in the Labour party and quit cos they were telling him to resign. Instead he quit the party and is insisting he wont quit his job. I think you're right.

It's late and I'll look Into him a little more tomorrow.

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1463070 wrote: He's In the thread because your bias can not see beyond and see the relevance.

He Is relevant because I have offered a perfectly valid point regarding the culture of fear that was created that In turn saw police, social services and council staff too afraid to speak out and stop the Rochdale grooming thus seeing more victims, when on TV 8 years prior, they saw a politician arrested and prosecuted for speaking out on the very subject that they are now being accused of covering up.

That chummy, Is highly relevant...



So ner
So.......your whole world does turn around the new messiah, as if everybody was glued to Da Man's trial and afraid look at a black person wrongly after the......*cough*non guilty verdict ? So that was THE precursor to the events that followed.

As we are on fables recently............remember the boy that cried wolf so often that when the wolves arrived his crediblity was questioned ?.......so it might perhaps have been his bias.......or his percieved bias causing the people he was telling to discount the veracity of the man. (Remember he was a Holocaust denier......until it became politically unviable)

As I said before........he was one unreliable voice amongst many......so....

"Have you considered that if it had been anyone else that put forward the idea that dark skinned men were targetting white girls for sex........they might have been listened to?"

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1463078 wrote: So.......your whole world does turn around the new messiah, as if everybody was glued to Da Man's trial and afraid look at a black person wrongly after the......*cough*non guilty verdict ? So that was THE precursor to the events that followed.

As we are on fables recently............remember the boy that cried wolf so often that when the wolves arrived his crediblity was questioned ?.......so it might perhaps have been his bias.......or his percieved bias causing the people he was telling to discount the veracity of the man. (Remember he was a Holocaust denier......until it became politically unviable)

As I said before........he was one unreliable voice amongst many......so....

"Have you considered that if it had been anyone else that put forward the idea that dark skinned men were targetting white girls for sex........they might have been listened to?" Was he though? Yes, there were others In Rotherham 5 years ago who spoke of It but, politicians going public and speaking out ??? Show me who. Really, I'll be Interested to know.

Show me another political Party who compiled a detailed report on detailed research who submitted that to police and the Council.

For goodness sake, even here 5 years ago, I wrote a post stating that a Grandfather had contacted Griffin In desperation after police Ignored him and a member here stated he had phoned his detective friend In that area and his detective pal had Informed him I was a liar.

Others were going to the authorities 5 years ago and they were Ignored but I believe Griffin was the only leader of a political Party to do so.

As his arrest and trial was on National news channels, It Is then relevant that those In the police, council and social services would be deterred from waking waves In the future.

[Oscar Namechange]

After his arrest and trial for speaking out 5 years ago, this Is what Nick Griffin did almost a year ago before news of the Rochdale scandal broke this week.

Note, a year ago, the Cities he names !!!

Stop child sexual exploitation | www.nickgriffinmep.eu

What other Politician did this Bruv ?

[FourPart]

He is one among 99% of all others who state the obvious. There is nothing unique or groundbreaking about what he's saying, despite what he says being true - but no more true than what everyone else has said before him.

You say the BNP & Nick Griffin are not racist. Just looking at the links on that page makes me laugh. Pretty much every one refers to Pakistanis or Muslims.

So far Asians are still a minority, and as such the vast majority of Sex Offenders, be they Child or Adult are still White, yet I don't see him making any mention of this.

As for no-one else doing anything about it? Does Operation Yewtree mean anything to you?

Personally I don't believe he gives a toss about Child Abuse to Pakistani & Muslim children. After all, he has openly said that they should all be hanged. To him it's just a political vote grabber.

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1463084 wrote: He is one among 99% of all others who state the obvious. There is nothing unique or groundbreaking about what he's saying, despite what he says being true - but no more true than what everyone else has said before him.

. I really don't think you're grasping the point here.

99% of all others !

State the obvious???

In 2006 Griffin was not stating the obvious. That is a ridiculous claim. He was exposing.

Nick Griffin gave his first speech on child grooming In Keighly.

Look at the date of this article

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Bradford | BNP leader cleared of race hate

November 2006.... 8 years ago... In Keighly where he was arrested for speaking out.



So, If you and Bruv Insist that he was one of many who spoke out 8 years ago, then show me some evidence as I have had the courtesy to do here.

Show me something, anything that shows another leader or politician warning of grooming gamgs operating at the same time Griffin did, ie 8 years ago.

During his research which Involved talking to many of the girls himself and their families, he warned that this was carried out predominately Pakistani men.

Fast forward to the this week and most national newspapers finally admitting this Is not about Asian men per say but men of Pakistani origin.... Or are you actually saying that the report Into Rochdale this week that states the groomers being In the main Pakistani origin, Is also racist?

After all, you can't have It both ways. If Griffin is racist for highlighting Pakistani men from his report, then todays newspapers must also be racist.

[gmc]

You have changed your tune a little bit oscar, remember your comments on the jimmy saville, max cliffird and rolf harris cases?

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/socie ... sault.html

I've just got a horrible feeling that this Saville case has gone too far and some of these claims are motivated by compensation.

I just don't believe It of Max Clifford who was absolutely devastated at the loss of his wife to cancer.

It now seems that If any woman was ever alone with a high profile celeb, out come these accusations on the back of the Savile case. Think what you like of Clifford but from what I have read about him as a family man, he seems an unlikely candidate.


http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/curre ... rip-3.html

A lot has change since the 60's and 70's bearing in mind many of Savile's victims were over decades right up to the 2000's...

I agree that In the 60's and 70's the attitudes of police toward low status women was appalling. Remember those were the days when even when your husband battered you on a daily basis the police didn't Intervene as It was viewed as ' A domestic dispute'.

However, the catalogue of Savile's abuse is not about attitudes of police toward the victims. Compare the cases of the Asian grooming scandal of today and Savile... For over ten years police knew Asians were raping young children In the North of England and didn't listen to the girls because of low status, that Is true but with Savile It was about one man who was extremely wealthy and having enough control because of his status to gain keys to hospitals and children's homes. Many of Savile's victims were abused when he was alone with them and It was a case of their word against his but also because of the CPS who are reluctant to prosecute when it's his word against theirs and a conviction may be unlikely. The fault In these present climes lies with the CPS not so much the police attitude. Remember, Savile was Investigated by police several times so It wasn't a case of them not believing the victim but the CPS declining to prosecute.

As for the Daily Mail your spouting rubbish again.... go on... show me one Instance where the Mail has said basically 'look at the tits on her'....


It's the same basic attitude, denial that such things take place and an attitude that thinks some girls are of a type that are asking for it, low status, contempt for people in care or from housing schemes call it what you will it boils own to no one in authority cared.

You do have a point about the racial element but it also distracts from a much larger problem. Child abuse covers all socio-economic groups why is it we start out with the asumption that children always lie when it comes to this kind of thing (and some do ask any secondry shool teacher) and the second assumption is that the girls (in this particular case were willing).

I suppose the catholic church is relieved attenion has been taken off their activities - god moves in mysterious ways indeed.

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1463082 wrote: After his arrest and trial for speaking out 5 years ago, this Is what Nick Griffin did almost a year ago before news of the Rochdale scandal broke this week.

What other Politician did this Bruv ?


Who mentioned Politicians ?

There were more than 1400 complainants,(taking into account those that did not complain those we don't know about that did,plus parents and carers) some with blooded bodies ffs......even they were ignored.......why should the police listen to an anti EU MEP with racist tendencies?

The urgument may be too subtle for you to grasp,seeing that you are blinded by the mans halo of righteousness.



My donkeys leg just fell off.

[FourPart]

From your link...

He said: "I think any preaching of religious or racial hatred will offend mainstream opinion in this country and I think we've got to do whatever we can to root it out from whatever quarter it comes.


From Nick Griffin (Wales on Sunday)...

“All black people will be repatriated, even if they were born here. We must preserve the white race, because it has been responsible for all the good things in civilisation.


“I shared a platform with David Duke, who was once a member of the Ku Klux Klan, a totally non-violent one by the way.


You have to laugh don't you.

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1463094 wrote: From your link...



From Nick Griffin (Wales on Sunday)...





You have to laugh don't you. Nick Griffin was Invited as were hundreds of others to a conference In the USA where, oh, shock, horror, David Duke was speaking.

I was at a rally where George Galloway attended, so that makes me a Scottish, anti-semetic, Hamas supporting, expelled Labour Party member with a man crush on Anjem Choudrey.

Let me try to explain to something to you.

When I was very first arrested, I spoke probably a few sentances to a hack at The Bristol Evening Post basically confirming that I had been contacted by police re: a complaint from the 5 ft 9 inch, foul mouthed, aggressive, yobs, mummy.

Next day, I'm on the front page with a ridiculous headline.

Then I had to go to the police station where I was arrested and charged. The hack stayed outside the police station In minus degree's for 9 hours along with other press and protesting members of the British Legion. I'd refused a police caution and knowing I was going to go to trial, I never said a word to these waiting hacks as advised other than, ' has anyone got a light'?

Next day, double page spread with headlines ' I'm ready to go to prison'.

Then my defence lawyer rocks up. He never spoke to the Bristol Evening Post at all to observe Sub Judice law. Next day, double page spread with headlines ' Mr Loophole furious over treatment of ****** That article contained enough that It would seem he had actually given a full Interview to the Post.

We appear before the Magistrates to enter the plea... more ridiculous headlines with what I have allegedly said.

Trial lasts four days, more headlines. More stories with what I am supposed to have said despite strict Instructions from my lawyer to say nothing and appointing me his press agent to filter the Intrusion.

In court, press attempting to seek out my family and friends for gossip. More comments printed that my Brother was supposed to have told them from Inside the court.

Trial ends. More headlines, one stating I had called for better policing.

More headlines from what my lawyer Is alleged to have said to press.

IPCC Inquiry, more headlines.

Some time later, with no end to the anti-social behaviour, I call a public meeting with local police and Councillors, more headlines stating I am enrolling vigilantes.

This was all from a few sentances prior to my arrest confirming I had been contacted by police regarding the complaint from yob's Mummy.

eta... However, I will confirm that my lawyer said following the trial " To see a police officer punching the air In glee Is beneath contempt".

And you believe every word the Leftist media print about what Nick Griffin Is supposed to have said ???? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Do some more research and you'll find Griffin also calls for the death penalty on the likes of Ian Huntly... Not just Johhny Foriegner...I agree with him.

[Oscar Namechange]

At last !!! I can always rely on my learned Scottish friend for some real debate.

I agree, you have a point... so I'll make myself clear.

In the Savile cases, given the amount of celebs charged and found not guilty, especially with William Roache who's alleged crimes went back 50 years, I question wrecking a man's career and status with 50 year old historic crimes. I am not talking about serious sexual assault and rape, but the ' he grabbed my bum' charges levied against the one's such as Dave Lee Travis. It smacks of revenge for not being able to crucify Savile while he was alive. Added to the fact, we are talking about an entirely different culture In those days In the show buisness Industry.

The Rochdale scandal and the others, Oxford and Rotherham are entirely different.

Simply because they are happening right now and we're not talking about someone grabbing a girls bum but serious rape, assault, Imprisonment, human trafficking and slavery.

As for any those convicted of crimes as we;ve seen In Rotherham, then just deport them, British Citizenship or not.

If you look further than Nick Griffin, you'll see a story of how one of the Oxford groomers has just been released from prison having got out for good behaviour and now his 14 year old victim Is going to spend the rest of her life In a state of terror that he will one day carry out his threats... Deport him.

[Oscar Namechange]

Rotherham child abuser boasts as he jets off on holiday to Pakistan | Mail Online

[Oscar Namechange]

FourPart;1463084 wrote: He is one among 99% of all others who state the obvious. There is nothing unique or groundbreaking about what he's saying, despite what he says being true - but no more true than what everyone else has said before him.

You say the BNP & Nick Griffin are not racist. Just looking at the links on that page makes me laugh. Pretty much every one refers to Pakistanis or Muslims.

So far Asians are still a minority, and as such the vast majority of Sex Offenders, be they Child or Adult are still White, yet I don't see him making any mention of this.

As for no-one else doing anything about it? Does Operation Yewtree mean anything to you?

Personally I don't believe he gives a toss about Child Abuse to Pakistani & Muslim children. After all, he has openly said that they should all be hanged. To him it's just a political vote grabber.


Now this Is very, very Interesting and a turn up for the books.

Yes, I have got permission to copy and paste.

Remember Marl Collett ? He's the one In my link also charged with Nick Griffin for Inciting racial hatred.... This Is his post on Facebook .... sorry, what were you saying about the far right being biased?



Mark Collett

5 hrs ·

Another observation about Rotherham – we as people need to get our house into order also. Young girls shouldn’t be out on the street at all hours in a position where they can be picked up and used an abused. What the hell has happened to our community? Kids used to have curfews and had to be home before dark – not out wandering the streets, smoking, drinking and using drugs. It’s about time we rebuilt our sense of family and community and started instilling pride and values into our youngsters.

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Deborah Findley and 54 others like this.

[gmc]

Oscar Namechange;1463100 wrote: Now this Is very, very Interesting and a turn up for the books.

Yes, I have got permission to copy and paste.

Remember Marl Collett ? He's the one In my link also charged with Nick Griffin for Inciting racial hatred.... This Is his post on Facebook .... sorry, what were you saying about the far right being biased?



Mark Collett

5 hrs

Another observation about Rotherham we as people need to get our house into order also. Young girls shouldnt be out on the street at all hours in a position where they can be picked up and used an abused. What the hell has happened to our community? Kids used to have curfews and had to be home before dark not out wandering the streets, smoking, drinking and using drugs. Its about time we rebuilt our sense of family and community and started instilling pride and values into our youngsters.

LikeLike Share

Deborah Findley and 54 others like this.


Yet another inane comment excusing the abuser along the lines of these girls are at fault for being out and about and were obviously using drink and drugs. They are victims not the guilty ones.

In any case if you look at the details of the child grooming they were not just picking on the feckless from broken homes. There were instances where the parents went to the police, the schools were reporting men in cars lurking around the school gates approaching girls and the police took no action.

How do you explain the abuse by catholc priests? What are parents thinking allowing their children to be alone unsupervised with single men in Cassocks? It's not just muslims that have an unnatural fascination with children. We even have a cardinal on record as saying it ws the fault of the victim for being so tempting.

[Oscar Namechange]

gmc;1463101 wrote: Yet another inane comment excusing the abuser along the lines of these girls are at fault for being out and about and were obviously using drink and drugs. They are victims not the guilty ones.

In any case if you look at the details of the child grooming they were not just picking on the feckless from broken homes. There were instances where the parents went to the police, the schools were reporting men in cars lurking around the school gates approaching girls and the police took no action.

How do you explain the abuse by catholc priests? What are parents thinking allowing their children to be alone unsupervised with single men in Cassocks? It's not just muslims that have an unnatural fascination with children. We even have a cardinal on record as saying it ws the fault of the victim for being so tempting. That was the whole point of my highlighting his Facebook status. It's Inane, but shows anyone from the Far Right Is not all about hating Johnny Foriegner.

There's a case In Rotherham right now where parents were arrested and not the abusers.



UK Police Arrested Parents Trying to Stop Muslims from Raping their Children | FrontPage Magazine)

I agree, where ever there Is child abuse there comes excuses.

A very good example of this, Is a friend of mine Karen Downes who finally after 10 years, the police have re-opened the murder Inquiry.

Charlene Downs murder trial collapsed In part because police ' lost' the tape of her alleged killer admitting he'd killed her.

Up until that moment, she was just another woman In Blackpool. She tried everything to get a retrial and couldn't. Everyone came out In sympathy. Finally, she turned to the BNP and from that moment on, she was met with the most disgusting backlash of vile trolling anyone should ever endure. It switched from sympathy to being told It was her fault for not keeping her daughter home at night.

How the EDL leaders stabbed a grieving family in the back | National News | British National Party

The question Is though, whether Catholic priests, Muslims, or British White Pedo's such as Sydney Cook, how do we stop It as a country?

There's a massive demo planned In Rotherham which by now I am sure the police are aware of, given It's all over social networking sites, calling for the resignation of the Cheif of Police so meanwhile, I'll offer a suggestion... we as a country just have to accept that we a now a nation of child abusers, be It white British, Muslims or the Church. Until we accept that and government accepts that and puts measured of monitering Into place, It will just go on and on.

[kazalala]

Mark Collett

5 hrs

Another observation about Rotherham we as people need to get our house into order also. Young girls shouldnt be out on the street at all hours in a position where they can be picked up and used an abused. What the hell has happened to our community? Kids used to have curfews and had to be home before dark not out wandering the streets, smoking, drinking and using drugs. Its about time we rebuilt our sense of family and community and started instilling pride and values into our youngsters.

LikeLike Share

Deborah Findley and 54 others like this.


This is why it was allowed to go on,, blaming the girls and looking on them as "undesirables" as that woman said when asking the police for help and being told " well what do you expect?" I mean god forbid an adult should be held responsible.

[Oscar Namechange]

kazalala;1463106 wrote: This is why it was allowed to go on,, blaming the girls and looking on them as "undesirables" as that woman said when asking the police for help and being told " well what do you expect?" I mean god forbid an adult should be held responsible.


To be honest Kaz, there's a small part of Mark's post that i can see what he's getting at.

Again, I have to refer to my work colleague the Muslim cab driver. We were driving along one day and the kids were coming out of school walking up the road and one clearly had her boobs In a pushed up bra showing them and the skirt was so short and tight, you could have seen her spider. He says to me' look at the way she dressed, then they complain about male attention'.

Then followed a conversation about It.

But as he pointed out, If In the main the groomers are of Pakistani origin and their culture Is such that woman and girls are covered head to foot, then seeing a young girl like that, could they be blamed for believing they were ' easy meat'.

That's the point, It's about culture. As a country we have eased In to this society today where we see girls walking around like that. We see young people barely dressed spewing Into the gutter at 3 am due to binge drinking. We accept It as part of our progression of Western Society, but do other cultures see It the same way we do?

We all know that there Is absolutely no excuse for sexual abuse even If the victim was bkind drunk, high on drugs and running down the street naked.... but It's how others view our Western standards.

[kazalala]

Oscar Namechange;1463112 wrote: To be honest Kaz, there's a small part of Mark's post that i can see what he's getting at.

Again, I have to refer to my work colleague the Muslim cab driver. We were driving along one day and the kids were coming out of school walking up the road and one clearly had her boobs In a pushed up bra showing them and the skirt was so short and tight, you could have seen her spider. He says to me' look at the way she dressed, then they complain about male attention'.

Then followed a conversation about It.

But as he pointed out, If In the main the groomers are of Pakistani origin and their culture Is such that woman and girls are covered head to foot, then seeing a young girl like that, could they be blamed for believing they were ' easy meat'.

That's the point, It's about culture. As a country we have eased In to this society today where we see girls walking around like that. We see young people barely dressed spewing Into the gutter at 3 am due to binge drinking. We accept It as part of our progression of Western Society, but do other cultures see It the same way we do?

We all know that there Is absolutely no excuse for sexual abuse even If the victim was bkind drunk, high on drugs and running down the street naked.... but It's how others view our Western standards.
:-2

An adult knows sex with a child is wrong, giving drugs and booze to a child is wrong, raping and passing around the child to others to rape is wrong. " what was the victim wearing" is wrong. women, young impressionable girls, children should not be having to act, dress, behave in a way to prevent rape and sexual exploitation. Men should not rape. The man who rapes or grooms girls is responsible, no excuses. they should face the consequences. Its like saying well,, the man cant help himself if she is dressed provocatively,,, come on! This thinking is exactly why it wasn't stopped. Why it was allowed to go on, so why should anyone be held accountable then,, after all the girls probably asked for it eh?

[Oscar Namechange]

kazalala;1463114 wrote: :-2

An adult knows sex with a child is wrong, giving drugs and booze to a child is wrong, raping and passing around the child to others to rape is wrong. " what was the victim wearing" is wrong. women, young impressionable girls, children should not be having to act, dress, behave in a way to prevent rape and sexual exploitation. Men should not rape. The man who rapes or grooms girls is responsible, no excuses. they should face the consequences. Its like saying well,, the man cant help himself if she is dressed provocatively,,, come on! This thinking is exactly why it wasn't stopped. Why it was allowed to go on, so why should anyone be held accountable then,, after all the girls probably asked for it eh? I agree wholeheartedly with you. I was just wondering If It's to do with the culture difference and religion.

If Muslim men are brought up with the passages from the Holy Qu'ran that talks of the Prophet Mohammed taking his wife when she was 9 years old, does It mean they are putting religion over the law of the land?

The BNP's Marlene Guest actually spent 5 years Investigating this and her report claims that besides the abuse, this was In fact organised crime on a mass scale because don't forget the girls were being sold for sex of up to 100 men per night !!! £50 a time, that's a huge amount of money. They were transporting the girls all over the country. In fact, the one's who have been convicted In other parts of the country prior to Rochdale, were convicted also of Human Trafficking because the police were able to get the data from their milo's In the car after picking the girls up.

In an area of high unemployment, this must have been a hell of a money machine,

I'm now roday, actually beginning to doubt whether the council were afraid of being branded racist for speaking out. Every possibility they didn't want to risk Labour votes by rocking the boat and every possibility, they along with the police believed the girls of low worth and thought they asked for It.

At least now It's out, we can demand that every girl and every family Is treated unbiasedly In the future. There can not be more victims now It's all come out. It must be addressed.

[kazalala]

Oscar Namechange;1463120 wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with you. I was just wondering If It's to do with the culture difference and religion.

If Muslim men are brought up with the passages from the Holy Qu'ran that talks of the Prophet Mohammed taking his wife when she was 9 years old, does It mean they are putting religion over the law of the land?

The BNP's Marlene Guest actually spent 5 years Investigating this and her report claims that besides the abuse, this was In fact organised crime on a mass scale because don't forget the girls were being sold for sex of up to 100 men per night !!! 50 a time, that's a huge amount of money. They were transporting the girls all over the country. In fact, the one's who have been convicted In other parts of the country prior to Rochdale, were convicted also of Human Trafficking because the police were able to get the data from their milo's In the car after picking the girls up.

In an area of high unemployment, this must have been a hell of a money machine,

I'm now roday, actually beginning to doubt whether the council were afraid of being branded racist for speaking out. Every possibility they didn't want to risk Labour votes by rocking the boat and every possibility, they along with the police believed the girls of low worth and thought they asked for It.

At least now It's out, we can demand that every girl and every family Is treated unbiasedly In the future. There can not be more victims now It's all come out. It must be addressed.


To some extent yes I think it could be to do with culture differences, Its still wrong of course. But one thing it is not, is the girls faults. However they were dressed.They were groomed and then used. Some were targeted and groomed the same as a pimp would do, making the girl think they loved them and it was a big romance. At a young and impressionable age the girls were easy targets. I know some of the men involved have been jailed, but there is responsibility lying elsewhere that needs to be addressed. How desolate and totally hopeless it must have felt for a girl to know even the police wouldnt help them. Even the social workers were blaming them,, there was no way out for them.

[FourPart]

My point was nothing to do with the Far Right being racist - in fact I never even used the term.

You can deny it all you like, but the BNP are synonymous with Racism & Ethnic Hatred. Griffin & other in the party have even been convicted of it.

I agree that most extremist racists are from the Far Right, but not all from the Far Right have anything to do with the BNP. It's like saying "My dog has 4 legs. My cat has 4 legs. Therefore my dog is a cat."

You seem to conveniently 'forget' that the BNP had to change their policy of not allowing non-whites into its membership until a Court Ruling said that this was unlawful, yet you still claim that the BNP is not Racist?

However, none of this has any relativity to the case in point. As GMC has pointed out, the Catholic Church is notorious for its high levels of Child Sex Abuse - something the Pope has even admitted to as being a problem, yet I don't see this being an issue with the BNP. Why? Because the Catholic Church is not Islamic.

A Rotherham Muslim's view on the matter...

BBC News - Rotherham Muslims 'condemn' child sexual exploitation