At long long last...

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:23 am

New inquiry ten years after sex crime victim Charlene Downes vanished | The Times

After 10 years of protest, at last a new Inquiry Into the dissapearance of Charlene.

I really don't know what Is worse. The catalogue of monumental c.ock ups by police that saw the collapse of the trial or the 10 years of Indifference her Mother Karen has been met with by the IPCC. Add to that, the 10 years of sheer hatred, false lies and slander bandied about by the UAF of Karen.

She couldn't win. The police recorded one of the men admitting he had killed Charlene and It was sheer police Ineptness that saw the evidence handled so badly the trial collapsed.

BBC News - Charlene Downes murder detective forced to resign

Yes, police officers were dealt with by the IPCC but Karen never had justice. Yet for 10 years she had to watch while Doreen Lawrence and the McCanns still made headlines Into justice for their children.

After the IPCC Inquiry, that was It, case closed so to speak so when Karen In desperation turned to Nick Griffin for help, she Immediately became a Pariah. The press and police shunned her while the UAF did their worst assassinating Karen's character. More sinister, even Wikki removed all references to Charlene's murder.

It's fair to say that Charlene was a difficult child but no-one lest of all Karen Down's deserved the hatred and bile thrown her way.

While living In Blackpool, the men believed to be responsible have taunted her In the streets and police even arrested her son for retaliating.

The news today I hope at last will provide some answers for Karen and her family.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:40 am

Charlene Downes Murder: Police Launch Fresh Appeal 10 Years After Disappearance

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:51 pm

Cherlene Downes missing person case reopened by police | Mail Online

Police have appealed again for help to solve the killings of two teenagers they believe were groomed for sex by paedophiles in the same seaside town before being murdered.

Charlene Downes, 14, disappeared in Blackpool on November 1 2003 amid claims that she was abused by up to 100 men and chopped up for kebab meat.

Today, the 10th anniversary of her disappearance, Lancashire Police announced they have relaunched the investigation led by Superintendent Andy Webster and a team of specialist officers.

The team will also concurrently investigate the disappearance of another local teenager, Paige Chivers, 15, who vanished in August 2007.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:47 am

And you know what ? I'm going to say It.

Hats off to Nick Griffin who never gave up on Karen and the family. I'd like to see any other politician put In the hours he did to demand a new Inquiry.

Attached files

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:11 pm

And the Irony...

After 10 years of taunting the family, with Nick Griffin and BNP arriving In Blackpool for a church memorial service for Charlene, this was the scene around the suspected Kebab shop.

Attached files

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 am

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:09 am

Fantastic news !!!

The dissapearance and suspected murder of Charlene will be the main event on BBC Crime Watch on 11th September.

Detectives are hoping fresh witness's will come forward especially other girls groomed by this gang who after 10 years are adult and may feel safer at coming forward.

I'll say It again... Hats off to Nick Griffin who never gave up on her and never will.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:58 am

BBC News - Missing Paige Chivers: Two men arrested for murder

Paige went missing around the same time as Charlene Downs In Blackpool. Her Mother naturally Is encouraged by this news today.

Charlene Down' appeal on BBC Crimewatch has been put back to November to coincide with the date Charlene vanished to jog viewers memories. I hope her killers watch and I hope they realise, no-one will give up on bringing them to justice.

This was three years ago !!!!

Police 'hid' abuse of 60 girls by Asian takeaway workers linked to Charlene Downes murder | Daily Mail Online

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:12 am

Islamophobia is appalling. It disgusts me, and the case of Charlene Downes has NOTHING to do with Islam.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:25 am

High Threshold;1464740 wrote: Islamophobia is appalling. It disgusts me, and the case of Charlene Downes has NOTHING to do with Islam.

Oh come now........why spoil a half decent propoganda opportunity with facts.

And as even you must know lots of them smell of garlic and *cough* spices too.

I wanna know what 'Doreen Lawrence and the McCanns' has gotta do with anything ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:28 am

High Threshold;1464740 wrote: Islamophobia is appalling. It disgusts me, and the case of Charlene Downes has NOTHING to do with Islam.

No, It doesn't but It has everything to do with convicting the killers of Charlene. Unfortunately, the men who were arrested and admitted killing Charlene happened to be ' Asian' as our media keeps calling It. Police ' lost ' the surveylance tape of them admitting killing Charlene and that's why the trial collapsed and a detective was forced to resign.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:01 am

Bruv;1464742 wrote: Oh come now........why spoil a half decent propoganda opportunity with facts.

And as even you must know lots of them smell of garlic and *cough* spices too.

Well yes, that's true. I was caught up in spontaneous reaction and wasn't thinking very clearly.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:02 am

Oscar Namechange;1464743 wrote: No, It doesn't but It has everything to do with convicting the killers of Charlene. Unfortunately, the men who were arrested and admitted killing Charlene happened to be ' Asian' as our media keeps calling It. Police ' lost ' the surveylance tape of them admitting killing Charlene and that's why the trial collapsed and a detective was forced to resign.

Sorry, I don't think that I understand. Are you saying "no", it has nothing to do with the case .... or "yes" it does?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:21 am

High Threshold;1464749 wrote: Sorry, I don't think that I understand. Are you saying "no", it has nothing to do with the case .... or "yes" it does?

The media are the source who Insist on adding ' Asian men ' to the mix on any update on Charlene. It will be Interesting to how the BBC present this In November on Crime Watch when they appeal for new witness's.

Frankly, I don't care. This Is about a Mother getting justice for her daughter. The case collapsed due to police failures and Incompetence. That should nevr have happened.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:49 am

Oscar Namechange;1464754 wrote: The media are the source who Insist on adding ' Asian men ' to the mix on any update on Charlene.

I've never understood why the UK refer to Pakistanis as "Asians" either. I do understand that it is geographically correct but it's such a broad term that includes Chinese and Japanese, etc.

Oscar Namechange;1464754 wrote: It will be Interesting to how the BBC present this In November on Crime Watch when they appeal for new witness's.

That it will be.

Oscar Namechange;1464754 wrote: Frankly, I don't care. This Is about a Mother getting justice for her daughter. The case collapsed due to police failures and Incompetence. That should nevr have happened.

I can't agree with you more. My above comments were in direct opposition to the interference of the English Defence League buggery.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:00 am

High Threshold;1464757 wrote: I've never understood why the UK refer to Pakistanis as "Asians" either. I do understand that it is geographically correct but it's such a broad term that includes Chinese and Japanese, etc.

That it will be.

I can't agree with you more. My above comments were in direct opposition to the interference of the English Defence League buggery.

When this first happened the EDL came out to support Karen, Charlene's Mother. She did not want their support. The EDL highjacked the trial just as they have highjacked the Rotherham scandel. That's what they do. Karen turned to Nick Griffin after her plea's to the IPCC and police to bring about a new trial fell on deaf ears. Griffin was In a far better position to shout about It, as he did raise It In the European Parliament..... As soon as Nick Griffin became Involved ( as he Is more legally aware of law than most ), the EDL turned on Karen. What followed was years of malicious trolling. It got so bad, that police had to Investigate. Nick took up the case with the police and the IPCC for Karen behind the scene's with the police and IPCC and It's through his work that he has got a new enquiry after 10 years. Prior to that, Karen was treated with complete Indifference by the authorities. The fact always remained... there were child killers still walking the streets.

The EDL despise the BNP and the way they turned on a grieving Mother just because Griffin was able to get more corrospondance out of the police was nothing short of sick... at the end of the day, we all need to know what happened to Charlene, and how... more Important, hopefully the where abouts of her remains so Karen can bury her daughter and have some closure.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:48 am

Oscar Namechange;1464758 wrote: ... at the end of the day, we all need to know what happened to Charlene, and how... more Important, hopefully the where abouts of her remains so Karen can bury her daughter and have some closure.

Agreed.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:58 am

HT: "I've never understood why the UK refer to Pakistanis as "Asians" either. I do understand that it is geographically correct but it's such a broad term that includes Chinese and Japanese, etc."

Well, we used to call those Asians of the different from Caucasian eye shape 'Orientals' but now that is wrong for some reason. I do know i.e. Japanese or Koreans get offended if they are assumed to be Chinese. There is a lovely young Chinese family in the floor above me, but they wish to be called Asian.

Human Being, Planet Earth best description for us all, IMO.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:29 pm

AnneBoleyn;1464772 wrote: Well, we used to call those Asians of the different from Caucasian eye shape 'Orientals' but now that is wrong

for some reason.

For some reason, indeed. We have a chocolate sphere that we call ....... I mean CALLED "Negerboll". The Germans have something similar called "Negerküsse". Both deriving from the Germanic word "neger" being a derivitive of "black". See the Spanish name Rio Negro - also "black". We and Germany (thanks to U.S. racist terminology boomeranging) now call our products Chokladboll respective Choco Küsse. I wonder how long it will be before Spanish-speakers will be compelled to say "Afro-American River" - Africans will have to change the nation of Niger to "Afro-Amico" - and Nigeria to "Afro-Americania"?

BTW: We also have a loaf of bread called "Laputabröd". We'll see how long that lasts.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:11 pm

Reminds me of.........schvartze.

Doesn't matter if it's literal, we all find ways to insult each other.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Is that a derivation of the Spice & Seasoning people?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:25 pm

FourPart;1464811 wrote: Is that a derivation of the Spice & Seasoning people?
Schvartze? It is the Yiddish word for the color black, but when said about people it ain't good. In German, which Yiddish is based on, it's schwarz.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:28 pm

AnneBoleyn;1464812 wrote: Schvartze? It is the Yiddish word for the color black, but when said about people it ain't good. In German, which Yiddish is based on, it's schwarz.
Which in UK, at least, is a leading Spice & Seasoning company.

Online Recipes, Cooking Guides & Videos | Schwartz Herbs & Spices

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:31 pm

I don't suppose we could actually stick to the topic of Charlene Downs murder here and have a bit of respect ?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:33 pm

Oscar Namechange;1464815 wrote: I don't suppose we could actually stick to the topic of Charlene Downs murder here and have a bit of respect ?
Fair enough, to be honest I'd forgotten what the thread was all about.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:36 pm

FourPart;1464816 wrote: Fair enough, to be honest I'd forgotten what the thread was all about. And you probably don't care... go ans start a new thread on spices If you want.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:47 pm

You certainly don't know how to accept a concession of a point gracefully do you.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:48 pm

I have a short attention span. Sorry oscar, I realize this case is very important to you.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:07 pm

AnneBoleyn;1464824 wrote: I have a short attention span. Sorry oscar, I realize this case is very important to you. No problem Anne...

Yes, I do believe the murder of a 14 year old girl Is Important.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:42 pm

AnneBoleyn;1464793 wrote: Doesn't matter if it's literal, we all find ways to insult each other.

I'm thinking the other way round. We all find ways to feign indignation, interpret insult, and regard the chip on our shoulders as being "knocked off". People don't inflict insult at all. An insult can only be "acquired".

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:27 am

High Threshold;1464835 wrote: I'm thinking the other way round. We all find ways to feign indignation, interpret insult, and regard the chip on our shoulders as being "knocked off". People don't inflict insult at all. An insult can only be "acquired".
I consider an accusation that I don't care extremely insulting.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:45 am

FourPart;1464838 wrote: I consider an accusation that I don't care extremely insulting.

Without the prepositions and pronouns I can't make out if you're having a playful jab or if you're really serious.

A-ha. You're saying that you find it insulting if someone accuses you of not caring. If that's the case then you prove my point, more or less.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:44 am

Oscar Namechange;1464754 wrote: The media are the source who Insist on adding ' Asian men ' to the mix on any update on Charlene. It will be Interesting to how the BBC present this In November on Crime Watch when they appeal for new witness's.

Frankly, I don't care. This Is about a Mother getting justice for her daughter. The case collapsed due to police failures and Incompetence. That should nevr have happened.

Part of the ongoing demonisation of Islam by the media - that doesn't meant we have to allow them to manipulate us into believing them.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:23 am

Bryn Mawr;1464842 wrote: Part of the ongoing demonisation of Islam by the media -

That's my gripe.

Bryn Mawr;1464842 wrote: - that doesn't meant we have to allow them to manipulate us into believing them.

But how do you propose "we" avoid it? I'm a free-thinker myself. I beleive what my experience of the world has taught me and I don't give two farthings about what the talking heads have to say at 9 o'clock. There are two problems with that, however. First is that the world changes while my experiences are only as "up to date" as my last round the world travels. Second is that I have nurtured my prejudices from those experiences and they may be "out of date". And when I think of those who've little or no experience of the world ......... what do they believe other than the manipulating media?

We're stuffed, and just saying we don't allow ourselves to be manipulated isn't nearly enough to make it so. What is your advice then?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:47 am

Bryn Mawr;1464842 wrote: Part of the ongoing demonisation of Islam by the media - that doesn't meant we have to allow them to manipulate us into believing them.

That's the problem we all face with the media Bryn. Unfortunately, people see what they want to see and others believe that because It's In print In some rag, It has to be true.

It Is fact however, that the two In the trial that collapsed were Asian. However, there are many Sikh's, Hindu's etc who want this ' Asian' tag dropped by the media.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:57 am

Oscar Namechange;1464846 wrote: However, there are many Sikh's, Hindu's etc who want this ' Asian' tag dropped by the media.

Don't any Sikhs or Hindus transgress ?

What is the matter with the old fashioned 'criminal' or accussed?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:57 am

FourPart;1464838 wrote: I consider an accusation that I don't care extremely insulting.

On this forum, we all disagree with each other. Most of us have known each other a lot longer and we've even had some bitter set to's In the past but It's difference of opinion, It does not mean, we have loathing for each other. Most here, If they truly believe they have upset a member will have the grace to send a pm and apologise.

However, there Is a certain decorum on this forum. I don't believe that anyone deliberately sets out to sabotage a thread and I admit I myself have Inadvertently wavered from the topic In hand on others threads. It's why Moderators will cut out and delete posts If this happens.

It's about having respect for other members. I'm not talking about general chit chat threads on spiders but a thread talking about the murder of a child, who's Mother Is looking In here and who has been through ten years of hell. Most of us, do try to respect the threads that we post and not use others as our own playground.

So No, when you start talking about spices In a thread to update on a new murder Investigation, I don't believe you have any respect for the subject or the people Involved, let alone any respect for why I have posted this thread which after Crime Watch, may be National news. Hence, no, I don't think you cared last night. If you did, you would have shown some respect that the thread was about a child being murdered.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:22 pm

Oscar Namechange;1464848 wrote: On this forum, we all disagree with each other. Most of us have known each other a lot longer and we've even had some bitter set to's In the past but It's difference of opinion, It does not mean, we have loathing for each other. Most here, If they truly believe they have upset a member will have the grace to send a pm and apologise.

However, there Is a certain decorum on this forum. I don't believe that anyone deliberately sets out to sabotage a thread and I admit I myself have Inadvertently wavered from the topic In hand on others threads. It's why Moderators will cut out and delete posts If this happens.

It's about having respect for other members. I'm not talking about general chit chat threads on spiders but a thread talking about the murder of a child, who's Mother Is looking In here and who has been through ten years of hell. Most of us, do try to respect the threads that we post and not use others as our own playground.

So No, when you start talking about spices In a thread to update on a new murder Investigation, I don't believe you have any respect for the subject or the people Involved, let alone any respect for why I have posted this thread which after Crime Watch, may be National news. Hence, no, I don't think you cared last night. If you did, you would have shown some respect that the thread was about a child being murdered.
From the start I admitted that I had lost track of the original topic of the thread. I wasn't the one to take it that way. I was simply following a chain of events. As soon as you pointed this out I acknowledged this. However, you chose to continue by accusing me of not caring - something I find extremely insulting & upsetting & not worthy of you.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:33 am

High Threshold;1464843 wrote: That's my gripe.

But how do you propose "we" avoid it? I'm a free-thinker myself. I beleive what my experience of the world has taught me and I don't give two farthings about what the talking heads have to say at 9 o'clock. There are two problems with that, however. First is that the world changes while my experiences are only as "up to date" as my last round the world travels. Second is that I have nurtured my prejudices from those experiences and they may be "out of date". And when I think of those who've little or no experience of the world ......... what do they believe other than the manipulating media?

We're stuffed, and just saying we don't allow ourselves to be manipulated isn't nearly enough to make it so. What is your advice then?

Sadly I can only control how I view the world and that mostly boils down to "only believe half of what you read and cross check the other half against the opposition's version of events"

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:17 pm

Quite a good half hour special on BBC tonight on Charlene Downs.

Let's hope for her families sake we see a prosecution soon.

BBC iPlayer - Panorama - The Girl Who Vanished