an interesting question

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:20 am

Ender's Game is a new movie, based on the book of the same name, written by Orson Scott Card.

I have enjoyed Mr Cards books, over the years, as I have many other Science Fiction writers. Some of these writers have expressed political and philosophical views with which I disagree.

So I was atracted to the question posed by this editorial:

Will Orson Scott Card's outspokenness affect 'Ender's Game'? - Longmont Times-Call

Do you consider an artist's social-political views when you are enjoying their product?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:33 am

It depends on if their product is an extension of their views or if there is an agenda in their product.i.e. Michael Moore.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:38 am

Orson Scott Card is a raving lunatic, did you know he "reimaged" Hamlet? In his version, Hamlet's father was actually a pedophile that basically raped all the young men in the story, corrupting them and turning them gay. He's also been very adamant about overthrowing our current government if we don't contain the rampant homosexuality and other deviant sexual behaviors.

I refuse to watch Mel Gibson movies and I'm definitely NOT going to spend money to see Ender's Game if it puts one cent of profit into this man's pocket.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:41 am

SnoozeAgain;1439161 wrote: Orson Scott Card is a raving lunatic, did you know he "reimaged" Hamlet? In his version, Hamlet's father was actually a pedophile that basically raped all the young men in the story, corrupting them and turning them gay. He's also been very adamant about overthrowing our current government if we don't contain the rampant homosexuality and other deviant sexual behaviors.

I refuse to watch Mel Gibson movies and I'm definitely NOT going to spend money to see Ender's Game if it puts one cent of profit into this man's pocket.

Wow!! I need to check this guy out. I had never heard of him before.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:25 am

I thougroughtly enjoyed Ender's Game and would happily have gone to see the film but ...

In answer to the question, yes, I do consider the source when reading and there are writers who's work I will not read for that reason - even more so when the writer's views come across in the text.

Not having known anything about Scott Card's private live the issue has not come up before but I'll do some digging now that the pointers are there.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:40 pm

I prefer to read fiction on its own merit and share the imaginary world with the author. The political beliefs of the author are secondary, unless they are presented within the work. There have been many cases where I have learned something distasteful about the author's life after reading. I try to keep the two separate. Would it ruin a Van Gogh for me if I had read his views and history first? Would I have liked Mozart less?

I will see the movie version of Ender's Game to see how the film maker's vision of the book lines up with the version in my mind from reading it decades ago. I will not research the political/religious/social views of the film maker in advance.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:01 pm

I didn't research Card but his "beliefs" have been brought up numerous times since the announcement of the movie and the more I read, the more angry and disgusted I got. Apparently I'm not as open minded as some of you, if I find out something loathsome about an artist, I find it very difficult to disengage that part of my brain so I can enjoy their work. And in Card's case in particular, he's not going to profit off me because I enjoyed one of his books 30 plus years ago that I haven't read since.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:01 pm

YZGI;1439145 wrote: It depends on if their product is an extension of their views or if there is an agenda in their product.i.e. Michael Moore.

What ^^^^^^he ^^^^^^said.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:02 pm

Your knee jerked when you read "Michael Moore", didn't it?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:22 pm

SnoozeAgain;1439188 wrote: I didn't research Card but his "beliefs" have been brought up numerous times since the announcement of the movie and the more I read, the more angry and disgusted I got. Apparently I'm not as open minded as some of you, if I find out something loathsome about an artist, I find it very difficult to disengage that part of my brain so I can enjoy their work. And in Card's case in particular, he's not going to profit off me because I enjoyed one of his books 30 plus years ago that I haven't read since.

Remember that the people bringing up his beliefs and calling for a boycott of the film are those who wish him ill and what they're saying his view are might not correspond to the views he holds.

Reading around it looks as though he's not as bad as they're trying to paint him.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:37 pm

I always laugh when people have to know the private lives or personal views of artists. Who cares ? I can't remember who the author was because it was way back in the 70's but her books were boycotted because she was a divorcee. If half was known about the great artists some of us would have a very drab life indeed refusing to look at or read what they have produced.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:45 pm

They aren't boycotting it just for this are they?

â€œSo if insist on calling what they do "marriage," they are not turning their relationship into what my wife and I have created, because no court has the power to change what their relationship actually is.

Instead they are attempting to strike a death blow against the well-earned protected status of our, and every other, real marriage.

They steal from me what I treasure most, and gain for themselves nothing at all. They won't be married. They'll just be playing dress-up in their parents' clothes.â€

â€” Orson Scott Card, â€œHomosexual â€˜Marriageâ€™ and Civilization,â€ 2004

- See more at: Skip Ender's Game

I agree with his statement.........I've never read his books though because it's not in my genre of tastes.

If you were to scratch the surface of any human being and you'd find most are anti- gay.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:32 pm

Bryn Mawr;1439287 wrote: Remember that the people bringing up his beliefs and calling for a boycott of the film are those who wish him ill and what they're saying his view are might not correspond to the views he holds.

Reading around it looks as though he's not as bad as they're trying to paint him.

Take another look: Orson Scott Card’s long history of homophobia - Salon.com

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:34 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1439292 wrote: They aren't boycotting it just for this are they?

I agree with his statement.........I've never read his books though because it's not in my genre of tastes.

If you were to scratch the surface of any human being and you'd find most are anti- gay.

That's utterly ridiculous. How about a link of oh... ANYTHING that would lead me to believe you didn't just pull that out of your ass.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:32 pm

Haven't read any of his books for years will probably see the film as I used to quite like them. Militaristically american with superhero saving the day. Is OSC's militarism more offensive than his homophobia? Avatar upset some people because of it's lefty leaning tree hugging theme did that stop you going to see it? I quite enjoyed battlefield earth but I think Scientology is interesting nonsense and anyone daft enough to buy in to it seriously lacking in common sense.

So in answer to the question does an author's socio-political views affect my decision to read what they have written my answer is no. Their views become interesting perhaps if I enjoy the writing but not excessively so. I like harry potter but haven't a clue about JK rowlings socio-political views and don't really care. Fahrenheit 451 is one of the most often banned books in america the irony of which is probably beyond the capacity of those banning it to understand or maybe they should read it first rather than letting other people think for them. But then they believe they have the right to think for others so maybe that is beyond them as well. 1984 gets banned in some places for being pro communist if you don't get the irony in that you are beyond hope.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:13 pm

I haven't seen Avatar. I refuse to pay extra to see 3D movies and the plot sounded simplistic and kind of stupid.

Is Ender American? It's set in the future, I didn't get a sense of any nationalities coming into play but then it's been a very long time since I read it. Does it make it more palatable for you that an English boy is playing the lead?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:24 am

SnoozeAgain;1439332 wrote: I haven't seen Avatar. I refuse to pay extra to see 3D movies and the plot sounded simplistic and kind of stupid.

Is Ender American? It's set in the future, I didn't get a sense of any nationalities coming into play but then it's been a very long time since I read it. Does it make it more palatable for you that an English boy is playing the lead?

Don't watch avatar in 3d - bloody awful imo. Good film though. Watch it when it comes on TV and make up your own mind. Couldn't care less what nationality he is. I have a prejudice against superman and the like, could never see the point of a hero who had superpowers to get himself out of trouble I was brought up on commando books and war comics based on real events it wasn't until I was an adult I could watch superman and the like and accept them for what they were - comic characters. Still haven't decided about manga. American sci fi has a habit of playing of reflecting the concerns of American society of the time - at least some of it does -and a lot of it is militaristic. doesn't stop me watching or reading it just making an observation you shouldn't take offence so easily. Asimov was a contemporary of arthur c clarke quite a difference between them and the likes of starship troopers and the forever war. It's the times they lived in I think.

I got fed up reading the ender series all I'm saying is the notion of a super soldier is I find to be a very american one. Europeans have the same notions it's just not such a big deal - (after all you did copy our commandos and even pinched the green beret)- and doesn't feature as a concept so much in our science fiction.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:56 am

I was brought up with ' Bunty'.

Bunty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:17 pm

oscar;1439374 wrote: I was brought up with ' Bunty'.

Bunty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I used to read my cousins:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:27 am

gmc;1439371 wrote: could never see the point of a hero who had superpowers to get himself out of trouble I was brought up on commando books and war comics based on real events it wasn't until I was an adult I could watch superman and the like and accept them for what they were - comic characters.

.

You didn't see them as comic characters as a kid?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:50 am

gmc;1439384 wrote: I used to read my cousins:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

You've got me worried now Auld Yin... I bet you cut the outfits out of the back page as well and dress ' Bunty'.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:46 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1439394 wrote: You didn't see them as comic characters as a kid?

Good point. :-5 Of course I did what I used to find irritating was that every time they got in to trouble they had superpowers to get themselves out of it. Guess I've always found real life stories more inspiring than fantasy or maybe I didn't need the comfort of imagining myself a superhero with hidden powers or maybe I'm just over thinking it.

posted by oscar

You've got me worried now Auld Yin... I bet you cut the outfits out of the back page as well and dress ' Bunty'.

Real men can read bunty and barbara cartland novels and appreciate the genre without fear of damage to their psyche. OK I've only ever part read a barabara cartland novel but you get my drift.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:36 pm

So, I went to see the film last night.

I decided, for myself, I really don't care about the artist's views or opinions about things not related to his/her art. I would only care when their views come out in their work, and even then, I would probably only consider how it impacted the work.

The movie was very well done, by the way.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:49 pm

How many stars would you give it? could we have a quick review please?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:36 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1440078 wrote: How many stars would you give it? could we have a quick review please?

Well I would give it a four, at least. (out of five)

The special effects are well done, without being part of the film. Meaning you don't specifically notice the effects, they just support the action. The story line stays very close to the book. Probably a result of the author being one of the producers. whole thing remains believable, for the most part, and there is never a diversion in the story to attempt to explain the methods used. My only real question is how the technology the Earthlings seem to have evolved so quickly. You have to see the movie to get what that REALLY means.

IT is a great "growing up story", told with a simplicity of production, and a terrific plot twist.

I am thinking that this might be enjoyable in a 3D theater without the 3D actually distracting from the film. That would be a marvelous evolution in the art, in its own right.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:20 am

Wow that was really enlightening. You do really good reviews. Thanks for that.