“personal defense weapons”

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tude dog
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“personal defense weapons”

Post by tude dog »

When in the hands of citizens they are assault weapons.

Semiautomatic rifles, we are told by some only belong in the hands of the military 'cause they are only good to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.

Makes me wonder. Is the Department of Homeland Security now a military force? Just who are the many people they plan to kill quickly as possible??

Considering they plan on buying full automatic weapons, why not call them what they really are, assault rifles, or the made up politically correct assault weapons?

From now on, I do not own an Assault Weapon. I it is now my “personal defense weapon."





Homeland Security seeking 7,000 assault weapons for ‘personal defense’

While the Obama administration calls for a ban on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines, the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to acquire 7,000 “personal defense weapons” — also known as “assault weapons” when owned by civilians.

Washington Times

The solicitation continues that the guns should be select fire, so that they fire both semi-automatic and full auto (the true definition of an “assault rifle”). The rifles will also take so-called high capacity magazines, “capable of accepting all standard NATO STANAG 20 and 30 round M16 magazines (NSN 1005-00-921-5004) and Magpul 30 round PMAG (NSN 1005-01-576-5159). The magazine shall have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.”

examiner
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

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Scrat
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“personal defense weapons”

Post by Scrat »

Can you say police state?
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Saint_
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Post by Saint_ »

They are military weapons for a military branch of our government...just the people who should have them.

There's no reason for regular citizens to need military weapons. They should be banned just like we ban hand grenades and rocket launchers.

People used to drink and drive. When there were just a few thousand cars in the entire country, that wasn't much of a problem, but when millions of drunk drivers hit the road the number of deaths became unacceptable. There were those who screeched "It's my god given right to drunk drive!" but they were overridden by the vast majority. It took time... but we changed.

When the constitution was written the few thousand Americans running around with muskets wasn't much of a problem, now that there are three hundred million Americans running around with guns, the number of deaths has become unacceptable. There are still those who screech, "It's my God given right to shoot a gun!" But they too, will be overridden and we will change.

Times change and with them, so do attitudes. Deal with it.
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AnneBoleyn
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“personal defense weapons”

Post by AnneBoleyn »

Saint_ You're not only obscenely handsome, you're smart too!
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tude dog
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“personal defense weapons”

Post by tude dog »

Saint_;1418953 wrote: They are military weapons for a military branch of our government...just the people who should have them.

There's no reason for regular citizens to need military weapons.


When did the dept of Homeland Security become a military branch?

I don't know the numbers, but few people own "military weapons" like Homeland Security is buying. They are already illegal in most states.

Still wondering just why the Dept. of Homeland Security needs fully automatic weapons. Where are the homeland battles to be fought, and against whom?

Saint_;1418953 wrote: Times change and with them, so do attitudes. Deal with it.


Not really. History repeating itself. Once again raw emotion to disarm Americans parading itself as reasoned though.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
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Saint_
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Post by Saint_ »

tude dog;1418970 wrote: Where are the homeland battles to be fought, and against whom?


With 30,000 dead Americans this year, it's pretty obvious to me that the battle is raging right here in America....against ourselves.

Not really. History repeating itself. Once again raw emotion to disarm Americans parading itself as reasoned though.


When in history has a country allowed 100,000 of it's citizens to die uselessly every three years? That's what you don't get, this level of violence is new, unprecedented. Unprecedented measures are called for.
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“personal defense weapons”

Post by Saint_ »

AnneBoleyn;1418956 wrote: Saint_ You're not only obscenely handsome, you're smart too!


Awwww...go on. You kid.
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tude dog
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“personal defense weapons”

Post by tude dog »

Saint_;1418978 wrote: With 30,000 dead Americans this year, it's pretty obvious to me that the battle is raging right here in America....against ourselves.


Firearm suicides

Number of deaths: 19,392

Firearm homicides

Number of deaths: 11,078

Saint_;1418978 wrote: When in history has a country allowed 100,000 of it's citizens to die uselessly every three years?


How many of those 11,000 or so per year did not die uselessly, but were killed for the very simple reason they were an imminent threat to an innocent person?

Saint_;1418978 wrote: That's what you don't get, this level of violence is new, unprecedented. Unprecedented measures are called for.


Not according to the FBI.

FBI: Violent crime rates in the US drop, approach historic lows

I already posted this on another thread. But for all the sweat over these so called military weapons, beware the knife, blunt objects etc.

Crime in the United States

The stats vary as to how many times firearms are used for self defense every year. From a low of 80,000 up to over a million. Not to mention the passive deterrent to home invasion.

Simple fact is we all are responsible for our own protection and firearms are best suited for that job.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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Saint_
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Post by Saint_ »

Less than 1%. Go ahead, read the papers. there's a story ever single day of a gun massacre, how many stores of gun defense have you seen?
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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

Saint_;1419066 wrote: Less than 1%. Go ahead, read the papers. there's a story ever single day of a gun massacre, how many stores of gun defense have you seen?


You have an interesting sense of empty hyperbole.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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Saint_
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Post by Saint_ »

tude dog;1419077 wrote: You have an interesting sense of empty hyperbole.


No exaggeration: 268 people are shot each day, 129 have been shot just today so far. 9,309 have been shot this year so far and it's only February. That's more than the total dead in Iraq and Afghanistan combined for the entire decade long wars!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/

More than 70 mass shootings just since Tucson!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf ... otings.pdf

I don't have to use hyperbole....things really are that bad.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Saint_;1419066 wrote: Less than 1%. Go ahead, read the papers. there's a story ever single day of a gun massacre, how many stores of gun defense have you seen?
That's equivalent to proving a negative. There's no way to know how many criminals were discouraged from even approaching someone because they knew or suspected that the person might be armed.



But you know that.
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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

Saint_;1419086 wrote: No exaggeration: 268 people are shot each day, 129 have been shot just today so far. 9,309 have been shot this year so far and it's only February. That's more than the total dead in Iraq and Afghanistan combined for the entire decade long wars!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/

More than 70 mass shootings just since Tucson!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf ... otings.pdf

I don't have to use hyperbole....things really are that bad.


Oh gee wizz.

I mean really?

I give you stats from the FBI and you respond with slanted propaganda from a political lobby the Brady Bunch. I could not imagine using the NRA as a reliable source of information and expect and be taken seriously.

I didn't make outrageous claims regarding actual number of self defense use of guns.

The nature of self defense does not mean you actually hurt another person. Best of all worlds is bad guy retreats. What a great news story that would make. Assuming the person defending him/herself reports it to the local authorities in the first place.

Personally I would, for two reasons,

1. Better me reporting first than the bad guy later claiming I illegally brandished a firearm and threatened him.

2. It would be really cool if the local police actually caught the SOB and he did some time.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1419088 wrote: That's equivalent to proving a negative. There's no way to know how many criminals were discouraged from even approaching someone because they knew or suspected that the person might be armed.



But you know that.


But there is a way of knowing how many criminals, suspecting that the person might be armed, got their shot in first.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

tude dog;1419101 wrote: Oh gee wizz.

I mean really?

I give you stats from the FBI and you respond with slanted propaganda from a political lobby the Brady Bunch. I could not imagine using the NRA as a reliable source of information and expect and be taken seriously.

I didn't make outrageous claims regarding actual number of self defense use of guns.

The nature of self defense does not mean you actually hurt another person. Best of all worlds is bad guy retreats. What a great news story that would make. Assuming the person defending him/herself reports it to the local authorities in the first place.

Personally I would, for two reasons,

1. Better me reporting first than the bad guy later claiming I illegally brandished a firearm and threatened him.

2. It would be really cool if the local police actually caught the SOB and he did some time.


Absolutely true - and do you not think that the NRA would pick up on it and push it for all it's worth.

We don't hear any such stories, that suggests that it does not happen.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;1419238 wrote: But there is a way of knowing how many criminals, suspecting that the person might be armed, got their shot in first.
Make your point.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;1419239 wrote: Absolutely true - and do you not think that the NRA would pick up on it and push it for all it's worth.

We don't hear any such stories, that suggests that it does not happen.
:wah: That's a leap!

The story would be boring beyond the local papers. "I pulled my gun and the crook ran away." Details at 7. A decent traffic jam at rush hour would bury such a story.
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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

Bryn Mawr;1419239 wrote: Absolutely true - and do you not think that the NRA would pick up on it and push it for all it's worth.

We don't hear any such stories, that suggests that it does not happen.


Can't speak for the NRA.

Even when there is a story, not many papers will pick them up.

Here is one source where they search for such stories, Guns Save Lives But then the way the MSM treats gun stories I am no sure I would want to see more.

My example of a defense where nobody is shot and I said What a great news story that would make was my feeble attempt a sarcasm as it seems the rule of thumb is "if it bleeds it leads'.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1419243 wrote: Make your point.


I did, I thought. (or at least, I'm not thinking - fuzzy head with hammer accompaniment).

In an armed society criminals start with the assumption that they need to carry as part of their job. Knowing that the victim might be armed a robber either goes in with gun showing or, at the very least, within a whisker of being drawn and used.

In our unarmed society it is rare for criminals to carry guns during robberies as they know it will massively increase their punishment if caught.

It should, therefore, be possible to do a statistical analysis of the percentage of robberies resulting in a shooting and whether it is the criminal or the victim that is shot to determine the effectiveness of carrying a gun as a deterrent against crime.

Similarly, it should be possible to do another analysis for burglaries to show the effectiveness of keeping guns for protection.

If guns are as effective as the guy in the video was suggesting then both figures should at least be approaching 50%.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

tude dog;1419255 wrote: Can't speak for the NRA.

Even when there is a story, not many papers will pick them up.

Here is one source where they search for such stories, Guns Save Lives But then the way the MSM treats gun stories I am no sure I would want to see more.

My example of a defense where nobody is shot and I said What a great news story that would make was my feeble attempt a sarcasm as it seems the rule of thumb is "if it bleeds it leads'.


I know - in my defence I've spent more time in bed today than out.

As an aside, it is interesting to note that you admit that the NRA distort the truth in their propaganda.
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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

Bryn Mawr;1419257 wrote: I know - in my defence I've spent more time in bed today than out.

As an aside, it is interesting to note that you admit that the NRA distort the truth in their propaganda.


Been many times, I best just stay in bed.

I am not a big fan of the NRA. I support it because it is effective. It does represent most my values.

Thankfully, the Second Amendment Foundation has managed to stay under the radar insofar as the popular media is concerned.

Another organization I support.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson

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