Recession

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:04 am

Apparently we are in a poetic 'Double dip recession'

The rich are getting richer, while the poor are cutting back.

Spain now has almost a quarter of it's work force out of work

Samsung profits are up

Apple's profits are........well astronomical.....

Meanwhile High streets are ghost towns.

Anyone have a solution...................apart from revolution ?

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:58 am

Bruv;1392357 wrote:

Anyone have a solution...................apart from revolution ?

Devolution. You take away the central power & distribute it laterally.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:02 am

Bruv;1392357 wrote: Apparently we are in a poetic 'Double dip recession'

The rich are getting richer, while the poor are cutting back.

Spain now has almost a quarter of it's work force out of work

Samsung profits are up

Apple's profits are........well astronomical.....

Meanwhile High streets are ghost towns.

Anyone have a solution...................apart from revolution ?
Cut gov't spending. Cut gov't services. Let the citizens keep their money and make their own decisions how to spend it. Introduce personal financing and budgeting into the school curriculum. It'll be bedlam for a few years, but it's bedlam now anyway.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:24 am

Accountable;1392361 wrote: Cut gov't spending.To what level?Accountable;1392361 wrote: Cut gov't services.How much and where?Accountable;1392361 wrote: Let the citizens keep their money and make their own decisions how to spend it.All of it? Should we abolish Medicare and Social Security too?Accountable;1392361 wrote: Introduce personal financing and budgeting into the school curriculum.Why? It'll be their money, let them do as they wish with it. Teachers should have the right to tell young people what to do with the money they'll earn later in life?

You must be a school teacher.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:56 am

Go back to regulating the banks properly. Stop all bonuses being paid out in banks owned by the taxpayer, fire any investment banker that complains, prosecute fred the shred and put Tony Blair and gordon Brown on trial for misleading parliament to get us involved in pointless wars and for being an idiot. Reduce all MP's salaries to the national average wage, ban any corporation from contributing to a political party renationalise all the publicly owned assets sold off by thatcher, ban any company that is based in Luxenbourg or any other tax haven so they don't pay UK tax from trading in the UK unless they agree to pay UK tax. do. sequestrate any individual or company late in paying their tax due - they do it for any small trader so why the hell should the likes of Amazon or Vodafone get away with it and why are we even negotiating with them in the first place? Abolish all, religious schools and public schools so it's a level playing field educationally. Bring fuel duty on diesel to a sensible level to reduce the cost of transport. Raise the higher tax rate to 60 - 70% and punch any idiot that tells you the rich will spend their money and help got us all out of the recession and we nned to reward them. Allow 100% mortgages for first time buyers - they didn't cause a problem it was the 125% mortgage that that tube brown allowed that causes problems.

Shoot all the tory voters!!! and get rid of new labour to bring back proper socialism.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:51 am

Well.....that brought out the nutters, I think I should re-phrase that, my question shows a major polarisation of opinion.

Accountable is obviously an all American boy, who thinks freedom to enrich the richest is what freedom is all about.

Then there is gmc, the dyed in the wool socialist, who believes profits are to be distributed 'fairly' amongst the proletariat.

Not forgetting the enigmatic rajakrsna.......who doesn't say much at all......of any substance.

I have no answers, only questions.

I know what is right and obviously wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make for a good financial outcome.

Both systems have their strengths, but as with any system that works on paper, the reality is not the same.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:03 am

Bruv;1392384 wrote: Well.....that brought out the nutters, I think I should re-phrase that, my question shows a major polarisation of opinion.

Accountable is obviously an all American boy, who thinks freedom to enrich the richest is what freedom is all about.

Then there is gmc, the dyed in the wool socialist, who believes profits are to be distributed 'fairly' amongst the proletariat.

Not forgetting the enigmatic rajakrsna.......who doesn't say much at all......of any substance.

I have no answers, only questions.

I know what is right and obviously wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make for a good financial outcome.

Both systems have their strengths, but as with any system that works on paper, the reality is not the same.

Some of us nutters knew we didn't have the answers.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:02 pm

Bruv;1392384 wrote: Well.....that brought out the nutters, I think I should re-phrase that, my question shows a major polarisation of opinion.

Accountable is obviously an all American boy, who thinks freedom to enrich the richest is what freedom is all about.

Then there is gmc, the dyed in the wool socialist, who believes profits are to be distributed 'fairly' amongst the proletariat.

Not forgetting the enigmatic rajakrsna.......who doesn't say much at all......of any substance.

I have no answers, only questions.

I know what is right and obviously wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make for a good financial outcome.

Both systems have their strengths, but as with any system that works on paper, the reality is not the same.

Firstly I am neither a nutter or a dyed in the wool socialist - I was being sl;ightly tongue in cheek. You need balance between left and right. In fact I have never voted labour in my life. As a bye the bye one of the political thinkers who influenced the early socialists, including Karl marx, was Adam Smith the so called founder of capitalism. Try reading the wealth of nations - it might surprise you. He had a recognisably liberal point of view on things like education, welfare - good grief he even advocated educating women. He also benefited from the education system in Scotland (education was compulsory up to secondary level) that allowed anyone to attend university lecturers being paid by those who went to hear them.

What has happened in both the UK and the US is thirty years or right wing economic policies that have resulted in the capitalist economies of both countries being destroyed. Financial services i.e banks and the likes are SERVICES. Their purpose id to service agriculture and industry instead we have had this myth peddled that somehow a banker is a moneymaker somehow generating wealth for us all out of nothing. The reality is the only people who create wealth are those who grow something to sell or make something to sell. Without that there is nothing. Both the US and to a lesser extent the UK have cheerfully watched as industrialist shipped jobs overseas laid off workers and increased company profits and now it is beginning to dawn on them that you actually need people with an earning capacity to actually buy your goods. A capitalist economy does not work if it is seen as essential that you pay your workforce peanuts and allow monopolies free rein and allow pundits that argue companies should be able to behave in a monopolistic fashion to get away with it. We no longer have a proletariat - haven't you heard we all work for a service economy and are middle class.

accountable is an american you should make allowances.

How would you rephrase the question? The rich really are getting richer and the poor poorer. Progress is made when those who would rule are reminded they are only in charge so long as the people say they are.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:23 pm

I knew you were being tongue in cheek..............are you sure you never voted Labour?

I know nothing, but why do they always talk of 'growth' , why does the economy have to grow ?

How is it that the wealth, the building blocks of wealth, the commodities, mostly come from the poorest countries ?

How can the likes of Samsung and Apple get richer, when people are struggling to pay mortgages ?

Why are Rolls Royce and Ferrari profits on the up while Tesco and Asda's are on the way down ?

As I said......... I know nothing, but something smells.

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:28 pm

Bruv;1392384 wrote: Not forgetting the enigmatic rajakrsna.......who doesn't say much at all......of any substance.

Because I really thought all you guys here have brains ( smiling ) !

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:42 pm

Bruv;1392401 wrote: I know nothing, but why do they always talk of 'growth' , why does the economy have to grow?Two main reasons: 1) to keep pace with population growth; 2) to increase living standards.

Bruv;1392401 wrote: How is it that the wealth, the building blocks of wealth, the commodities, mostly come from the poorest countries?Natural resources.

Bruv;1392401 wrote: How can the likes of Samsung and Apple get richer, when people are struggling to pay mortgages?Effective marketing

Bruv;1392401 wrote: Why are Rolls Royce and Ferrari profits on the up while Tesco and Asda's are on the way down?Because people with lots of money amass lots more and the affluent purchase high ticket items.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Bruv;1392357 wrote: Apparently we are in a poetic 'Double dip recession'

The rich are getting richer, while the poor are cutting back.

Spain now has almost a quarter of it's work force out of work

Samsung profits are up

Apple's profits are........well astronomical.....

Meanwhile High streets are ghost towns.

Anyone have a solution...................apart from revolution ?

I'm good with revolution.

Just recently a company closed it's doors to it's workers citing something to do with profits ... Which meant there would have been cuts to jobs in all the Auto industries. Would have had a trickle effect . Unions got involved and a Judge ordered the company to let its workers back in . BAZINGA!!!! lol lol

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:01 pm

The word, " RECESSION" is all in the mind. There are people I know who are not liquid have assets owning hectares of land not yet have not transferred it to their beneficiaries. They keep their land titles till they die without a will or testament. So when they die, the beneficiaries kill each other as to who really owns it. If people have lots of liquid assets they spend it in casinos, bordellos, illegal drugs, etc. In UK, you can not own land. It`s the Queen of England who owns their real estate property. If Samsung & Apple profits & the rest do not simply because they have the FORMULA to amass wealth without a sweat.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:02 pm

gmc;1392381 wrote: Go back to regulating the banks properly. Stop all bonuses being paid out in banks owned by the taxpayer, fire any investment banker that complains, prosecute fred the shred and put Tony Blair and gordon Brown on trial for misleading parliament to get us involved in pointless wars and for being an idiot. Reduce all MP's salaries to the national average wage, ban any corporation from contributing to a political party renationalise all the publicly owned assets sold off by thatcher, ban any company that is based in Luxenbourg or any other tax haven so they don't pay UK tax from trading in the UK unless they agree to pay UK tax. do. sequestrate any individual or company late in paying their tax due - they do it for any small trader so why the hell should the likes of Amazon or Vodafone get away with it and why are we even negotiating with them in the first place? Abolish all, religious schools and public schools so it's a level playing field educationally. Bring fuel duty on diesel to a sensible level to reduce the cost of transport. Raise the higher tax rate to 60 - 70% and punch any idiot that tells you the rich will spend their money and help got us all out of the recession and we nned to reward them. Allow 100% mortgages for first time buyers - they didn't cause a problem it was the 125% mortgage that that tube brown allowed that causes problems.

Shoot all the tory voters!!! and get rid of new labour to bring back proper socialism.

I think I'm in love.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:15 pm

The questions were more rhetorical, or perhaps quizzical......but...

Ahso!;1392403 wrote: Two main reasons: 1) to keep pace with population growth; 2) to increase living standards.
Then there should be a calculation that takes into account population rise, that knocks the growth into a pro rata equivalent, that would make sense to me.

Who wants or needs an increase in living standards, above being warm and fed ?

Natural resources. That was my point, silicon valley gets richer, while the silicon miners struggle to survive (Obviously not to be taken literally)

Effective marketing
So the power of marketing sells non essentials over basics like food ?

Because people with lots of money amass lots more and the affluent purchase high ticket items.
So the high ticket companies get richer ripping off the commodity suppliers, accumulating more wealth, and sucking the life blood out of the economy ?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:31 am

posted by bruv

I knew you were being tongue in cheek..............are you sure you never voted Labour?

Quite sure, if John smith hadn't died labour might have taken a different path. Same with Ronin Cook - had he lived Gordon Brown might never have become prime minister.