Greece should not be the "scapegoat" for the debt crisis in the eurozone. I quote Greece's Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos from the BBC report.
Let's see whether I can get this right, Evangelos. Greece fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases to the point where Greece is paying more than 10% of its inadequate tax revenue in interest to service the loans. At this point it's in an unstoppable upward spiral which can only end in repayment default, the national equivalent of bankruptcy.
What would it have done in the good old days before the Euro? It would have devalued its currency thereby putting its workers' income down by perhaps a third, reducing the volume of imports and stimulating production. But you can't pull that trick now can you, Evangelos. Because there's no more drachmae to do it to.
So what are you doing instead? You're asking the richer Euro-nations to pay off part of the Greek national debt as a gift to the Greek nation, rather than reducing Greek incomes by increasing the tax burden.
And you describe this inept national housekeeping as Greece being "blackmailed and humiliated"?
The words you're looking for have more to do with slack governance and the corrupt syphoning of government revenue into the hands of Greek politicians and their cronies. Humiliating, yes, but it's an entirely Greek-on-Greek humiliation.
Have you considered selling Cyprus back to Turkey instead, or disbanding your rather pointless (though dazzlingly bemedalled) armed forces?
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Don't forget selling off all the national assets just like we did back in the eighties except we called it privatisation and everybody cheered. We put up taxes just not on the very wealthy
Let's see whether I can get this right, Evangelos. Greece fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases
Let's just rephrase that sentance.
Let's see whether I can get this right, Bush. The US fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases to the point where the US is paying more than 10% of its inadequate tax revenue in interest to service the loans. At this point it's in an unstoppable upward spiral which can only end in repayment default, the national equivalent of bankruptcy.
Let's see whether I can get this right, Blair. The UK fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases to the point where The UK is paying more than 10% of its inadequate tax revenue in interest to service the loans. At this point it's in an unstoppable upward spiral which can only end in repayment default, the national equivalent of bankruptcy.
OK the 10% might be different but there is a pattern here, right wing monetarist economic policies peddling the delusion that if you don't tax the rich they will spent it and generate more jobs. It's not just the the greeks that are in a mess
Let's see whether I can get this right, Evangelos. Greece fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases
Let's just rephrase that sentance.
Let's see whether I can get this right, Bush. The US fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases to the point where the US is paying more than 10% of its inadequate tax revenue in interest to service the loans. At this point it's in an unstoppable upward spiral which can only end in repayment default, the national equivalent of bankruptcy.
Let's see whether I can get this right, Blair. The UK fails to extract sufficient taxation from its citizens and businesses to cover government expenditure. Consequently its national debt increases to the point where The UK is paying more than 10% of its inadequate tax revenue in interest to service the loans. At this point it's in an unstoppable upward spiral which can only end in repayment default, the national equivalent of bankruptcy.
OK the 10% might be different but there is a pattern here, right wing monetarist economic policies peddling the delusion that if you don't tax the rich they will spent it and generate more jobs. It's not just the the greeks that are in a mess
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
You left off the final sentence: Have you considered selling Alaska back to the Russians instead, or disbanding your rather pointless (though dazzlingly bemedalled) armed forces?
I wonder how much Gibraltar would pay us if we gave them Spain?
Beware Greeks demanding gifts.
Does the Greek austerity budget still provide a salary to this... ballerina? Because after my comment about wasting scarce money on the Armed Forces I thought I'd at least check how they'd performed when called on. A token contingent sent to Afghanistan, another to Kosovo, a third to Korea but really - when's the last time the Greeks actually won a war? I checked back a hundred years and found absolutely nothing resembling a victory, but they still get paid. Greek on Greek after World War Two, the Greeks won that. And there was a Dictatorship when they beat the civilians. How much do they cost the nation?
Attached files
I wonder how much Gibraltar would pay us if we gave them Spain?
Beware Greeks demanding gifts.
Does the Greek austerity budget still provide a salary to this... ballerina? Because after my comment about wasting scarce money on the Armed Forces I thought I'd at least check how they'd performed when called on. A token contingent sent to Afghanistan, another to Kosovo, a third to Korea but really - when's the last time the Greeks actually won a war? I checked back a hundred years and found absolutely nothing resembling a victory, but they still get paid. Greek on Greek after World War Two, the Greeks won that. And there was a Dictatorship when they beat the civilians. How much do they cost the nation?
Attached files
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
An opinion piece on the BBC website: BBC News - Greeks ask: Why all the suffering?
Calling on the population at large to send you money won't bring in as much as you need, sir. You have to fire staff. I'll ask again - what function do your armed services perform that makes them worth the cost?
Here's a flowchart. Scrapping payments to the armed services, both hardware and salaries, fixes the entire matter in one simple step. You know it makes sense.
It's called debt repayment. Next time don't over-extend your credit, pay as you go out of current taxation.
Calling on the population at large to send you money won't bring in as much as you need, sir. You have to fire staff. I'll ask again - what function do your armed services perform that makes them worth the cost?
Here's a flowchart. Scrapping payments to the armed services, both hardware and salaries, fixes the entire matter in one simple step. You know it makes sense.
It's called debt repayment. Next time don't over-extend your credit, pay as you go out of current taxation.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
I note that a measure of enforcement might be at hand, come the end of the month. Is this when we see a line of sunglassed Colonels emerge from the wings and shake down the nation? It's all they've ever done for the country in living memory, presumably it's why they're paid.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
spot;1369949 wrote: You left off the final sentence: Have you considered selling Alaska back to the Russians instead, or disbanding your rather pointless (though dazzlingly bemedalled) armed forces?
I wonder how much Gibraltar would pay us if we gave them Spain?
Beware Greeks demanding gifts.
Does the Greek austerity budget still provide a salary to this... ballerina? Because after my comment about wasting scarce money on the Armed Forces I thought I'd at least check how they'd performed when called on. A token contingent sent to Afghanistan, another to Kosovo, a third to Korea but really - when's the last time the Greeks actually won a war? I checked back a hundred years and found absolutely nothing resembling a victory, but they still get paid. Greek on Greek after World War Two, the Greeks won that. And there was a Dictatorship when they beat the civilians. How much do they cost the nation?
For the record, the last time the Greek army won was at the start of WWII, they defeated the invading Italians in what was the first Allied victory of the war. It was a battle rather than a war I'll grant you but they did win.
As to the financial mess, it's a tightrope. The government cannot just double or triple the taxes or they would (seriously) have a revolution on their hands - even with the level of tax increases (and all of the new taxes) that the last government introduced there were mass strikes and riots and that was nothing like enough to balance the books. The problem is that it's very difficult to pull in your horns when you're used to a certain level of spending - it takes time for the people to come to terms with the reduced income and the they lash out at those perceived to be the cause, the government that imposes the tax hike rather than the successive governments who failed to tax enough.
I wonder how much Gibraltar would pay us if we gave them Spain?
Beware Greeks demanding gifts.
Does the Greek austerity budget still provide a salary to this... ballerina? Because after my comment about wasting scarce money on the Armed Forces I thought I'd at least check how they'd performed when called on. A token contingent sent to Afghanistan, another to Kosovo, a third to Korea but really - when's the last time the Greeks actually won a war? I checked back a hundred years and found absolutely nothing resembling a victory, but they still get paid. Greek on Greek after World War Two, the Greeks won that. And there was a Dictatorship when they beat the civilians. How much do they cost the nation?
For the record, the last time the Greek army won was at the start of WWII, they defeated the invading Italians in what was the first Allied victory of the war. It was a battle rather than a war I'll grant you but they did win.
As to the financial mess, it's a tightrope. The government cannot just double or triple the taxes or they would (seriously) have a revolution on their hands - even with the level of tax increases (and all of the new taxes) that the last government introduced there were mass strikes and riots and that was nothing like enough to balance the books. The problem is that it's very difficult to pull in your horns when you're used to a certain level of spending - it takes time for the people to come to terms with the reduced income and the they lash out at those perceived to be the cause, the government that imposes the tax hike rather than the successive governments who failed to tax enough.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Perhaps what they need is a progressive taxation of the seriously rich. I seem to remember Dennis Healey set the rate at 83% when we did something similar for the identical reason. Taxing the poor is like flogging a dead horse, there's not much you can get out of it. Leaving the rich untaxed is imbecilic.
Winning a battle is one thing but my recollection of World War Two is that the Greeks spent most of it occupied, firstly by the Italians of whom you speak and thereafter by the Germans. There's a book somewhere set on an island during the occupation. Someone in it has a balalaika.
It's a simple fact that dismantling the Greek armed forces, selling their bases and equipment and buying no more hardware that goes bang would free up enough to pay down the debt. Greece has no need of such luxuries.
Winning a battle is one thing but my recollection of World War Two is that the Greeks spent most of it occupied, firstly by the Italians of whom you speak and thereafter by the Germans. There's a book somewhere set on an island during the occupation. Someone in it has a balalaika.
It's a simple fact that dismantling the Greek armed forces, selling their bases and equipment and buying no more hardware that goes bang would free up enough to pay down the debt. Greece has no need of such luxuries.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
spot;1480914 wrote: Perhaps what they need is a progressive taxation of the seriously rich. I seem to remember Dennis Healey set the rate at 83% when we did something similar for the identical reason. Taxing the poor is like flogging a dead horse, there's not much you can get out of it. Leaving the rich untaxed is imbecilic.
Winning a battle is one thing but my recollection of World War Two is that the Greeks spent most of it occupied, firstly by the Italians of whom you speak and thereafter by the Germans. There's a book somewhere set on an island during the occupation. Someone in it has a balalaika.
It's a simple fact that dismantling the Greek armed forces, selling their bases and equipment and buying no more hardware that goes bang would free up enough to pay down the debt. Greece has no need of such luxuries.
I agree with all you say but I cannot see it happening anytime soon
Winning a battle is one thing but my recollection of World War Two is that the Greeks spent most of it occupied, firstly by the Italians of whom you speak and thereafter by the Germans. There's a book somewhere set on an island during the occupation. Someone in it has a balalaika.
It's a simple fact that dismantling the Greek armed forces, selling their bases and equipment and buying no more hardware that goes bang would free up enough to pay down the debt. Greece has no need of such luxuries.
I agree with all you say but I cannot see it happening anytime soon
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
It was not The French Lieutenant's Woman.
My memory is not what it was.
My memory is not what it was.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
You'll remember General Grivas and EOKA and Archbishop Makarios collectively stealing what parts of Cyprus they could get away with and annexing it to Greece?
If they put that part of the island up for sale they could clear the debt outright in one fell swoop.
Just saying.
If they put that part of the island up for sale they could clear the debt outright in one fell swoop.
Just saying.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
spot;1480916 wrote: It was not The French Lieutenant's Woman.
My memory is not what it was.
Captain Corroli's Mandolin - the mandolin is far easier to cart around that a balalaika
My memory is not what it was.
Captain Corroli's Mandolin - the mandolin is far easier to cart around that a balalaika
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
spot;1480917 wrote: You'll remember General Grivas and EOKA and Archbishop Makarios collectively stealing what parts of Cyprus they could get away with and annexing it to Greece?
If they put that part of the island up for sale they could clear the debt outright in one fell swoop.
Just saying.
Greece had all of Cyprus until 1974 when Turkey invaded and annexed the northeastern half.
If they put that part of the island up for sale they could clear the debt outright in one fell swoop.
Just saying.
Greece had all of Cyprus until 1974 when Turkey invaded and annexed the northeastern half.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Bryn Mawr;1480919 wrote: Greece had all of Cyprus until 1974 when Turkey invaded and annexed the northeastern half.
Well, yes, but they'd only just stolen it a few years before then, mainly by murdering large swathes of the Black Watch and the Cameron Highlanders.
That chap who owns Google could afford it.
Well, yes, but they'd only just stolen it a few years before then, mainly by murdering large swathes of the Black Watch and the Cameron Highlanders.
That chap who owns Google could afford it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
The BBC continues the story with a contribution by the chair of the National Bank of Greece, whose makeup adviser will definitely get first offer if I ever remake Night Of The Undead.
She predicted that Greece would not be forced to leave the euro because "the cost for the eurozone, which they are down-playing, is really serious."
She added: "If the markets decided the eurozone is not an irrevocable decision and a government can be declared insolvent, then the first thing that would happen is that there will be a speculative attack by the markets on the next weakest participant in the eurozone or the euro."
It has been reported that withdrawals by Greek savers between last Monday and Friday reached about €4.2bn, representing about 3% of household and corporate deposits held by Greek banks at the end of April.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33215482
She predicted that Greece would not be forced to leave the euro because "the cost for the eurozone, which they are down-playing, is really serious."
She added: "If the markets decided the eurozone is not an irrevocable decision and a government can be declared insolvent, then the first thing that would happen is that there will be a speculative attack by the markets on the next weakest participant in the eurozone or the euro."
It has been reported that withdrawals by Greek savers between last Monday and Friday reached about €4.2bn, representing about 3% of household and corporate deposits held by Greek banks at the end of April.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33215482
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Monday has been declared a Bank Holiday in Greece.
Any Greek whose Euros are still in the national banking system is about to get summarily screwed by their government.
The BBC reporter is rather more acid than is conventionally allowed: "It is a fundamental principle of central banking that while you do lend to banks that are temporary difficulty, you only do so if they are solvent". Blimey.
Greek debt crisis: Banks to stay shut, capital controls imposed - BBC News
Any Greek whose Euros are still in the national banking system is about to get summarily screwed by their government.
The BBC reporter is rather more acid than is conventionally allowed: "It is a fundamental principle of central banking that while you do lend to banks that are temporary difficulty, you only do so if they are solvent". Blimey.
Greek debt crisis: Banks to stay shut, capital controls imposed - BBC News
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
spot;1481571 wrote: Monday has been declared a Bank Holiday in Greece.
Any Greek whose Euros are still in the national banking system is about to get summarily screwed by their government.
The BBC reporter is rather more acid than is conventionally allowed: "It is a fundamental principle of central banking that while you do lend to banks that are temporary difficulty, you only do so if they are solvent". Blimey.
Greek debt crisis: Banks to stay shut, capital controls imposed - BBC News
There go my holiday spendos then.
I was listening to various Greek politicians spouting today - their collective verbiage could be summed up as "It's not our fault".
Any Greek whose Euros are still in the national banking system is about to get summarily screwed by their government.
The BBC reporter is rather more acid than is conventionally allowed: "It is a fundamental principle of central banking that while you do lend to banks that are temporary difficulty, you only do so if they are solvent". Blimey.
Greek debt crisis: Banks to stay shut, capital controls imposed - BBC News
There go my holiday spendos then.
I was listening to various Greek politicians spouting today - their collective verbiage could be summed up as "It's not our fault".
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
I note that having won the referendum, Yanis Varoufakis has today been obliged to fall on his sword and relinquish the Foreign Ministry. Presumably as an immediate absolute condition for talks to resume on bailing out whatever Greek banks are showing signs of insolvency.
Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/
Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
I hear they are going to print Euros on greeceproof paper from now on.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Terrible, Bruv!:wah:
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Smaug;1482159 wrote: Terrible, Bruv!:wah:
I thank you....
What would be the affect if the Greek debt was just written off ?
I thank you....
What would be the affect if the Greek debt was just written off ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Bruv;1482194 wrote: I thank you....
What would be the affect if the Greek debt was just written off ?
Greece would continue to collect less in taxation and other income streams than it would pay out in pensions, benefits and wages, and accumulate further debt from whatever source was prepared to lend it more to fill the gap. The will to increase the former doesn't exist, the will to reduce the latter doesn't exist and Wilkins Micawber will ultimately prove instructive yet again. The current problem would be kicked perhaps five years down the road as it was before, while the entire "written off debt", as you call it, would meanwhile have been paid by the remainder of the taxpayers of the European Union.
What would be the affect if the Greek debt was just written off ?
Greece would continue to collect less in taxation and other income streams than it would pay out in pensions, benefits and wages, and accumulate further debt from whatever source was prepared to lend it more to fill the gap. The will to increase the former doesn't exist, the will to reduce the latter doesn't exist and Wilkins Micawber will ultimately prove instructive yet again. The current problem would be kicked perhaps five years down the road as it was before, while the entire "written off debt", as you call it, would meanwhile have been paid by the remainder of the taxpayers of the European Union.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Just found THIS, which is interesting.
Many owe more than Greece, and the countries with least debt have populations that are moving toward the ones with the largest debt.
Why not a European ex gratia one off payment with assurances, rather than putting a sovereign nation into purdah to international banks ?
We did it for our banks, didn't we ?
Many owe more than Greece, and the countries with least debt have populations that are moving toward the ones with the largest debt.
Why not a European ex gratia one off payment with assurances, rather than putting a sovereign nation into purdah to international banks ?
We did it for our banks, didn't we ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Bruv;1482200 wrote: Why not a European ex gratia one off payment with assurances, rather than putting a sovereign nation into purdah to international banks ?
We did it for our banks, didn't we ?Because Spain, Ireland, France and Portugal would immediately join the queue and demand similar treatment with the same threat of refusing a repayment schedule?
The British bank bailout was appallingly managed. If a bank is going to collapse then fine, say it's essential to the nation and nationalize it until it can be resold. What can't happen is that the bank's shareholders are left holding shares that retain value. The bank collapsed. The shares are worthless. The bank is then kept running with government injections of funds but the flip side is that the nation owns the bank.
The Greeks, by contrast, can't do this because they have no money with which to perform a rescue. If they printed their own money they could, but even if they revert to the Drachma they'll be too late to step in.
We did it for our banks, didn't we ?Because Spain, Ireland, France and Portugal would immediately join the queue and demand similar treatment with the same threat of refusing a repayment schedule?
The British bank bailout was appallingly managed. If a bank is going to collapse then fine, say it's essential to the nation and nationalize it until it can be resold. What can't happen is that the bank's shareholders are left holding shares that retain value. The bank collapsed. The shares are worthless. The bank is then kept running with government injections of funds but the flip side is that the nation owns the bank.
The Greeks, by contrast, can't do this because they have no money with which to perform a rescue. If they printed their own money they could, but even if they revert to the Drachma they'll be too late to step in.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
The new Greek austerity proposals, in seeking a third European bailout, include "€300m defence spending cuts by 2016".
Out of an annual military budget of €6.9 billion, gentlemen? You propose cutting the bill by 4%?
Try instead to retain 4% of your military spend, and scrap 96% of the extremely pointless waste of money represented by the rest of it. What possible good has it done you in living memory, after all.
The 4% can continue to pay for the armed ballet dancers you parade back and forth next to your Sacred Flame.
Greece debt crisis: Merkel says talks 'extremely difficult' - BBC News
Out of an annual military budget of €6.9 billion, gentlemen? You propose cutting the bill by 4%?
Try instead to retain 4% of your military spend, and scrap 96% of the extremely pointless waste of money represented by the rest of it. What possible good has it done you in living memory, after all.
The 4% can continue to pay for the armed ballet dancers you parade back and forth next to your Sacred Flame.
Greece debt crisis: Merkel says talks 'extremely difficult' - BBC News
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
According to this morning's newspaper, the Greeks appear to have blinked. They can now, if assorted national governments hold back their veto, continue to use the Euro. Whether they'll also hike taxes, reduce public sector pay and pauperize their pensioners is yet to be seen.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gr ... nes&wpmm=1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33503955
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gr ... nes&wpmm=1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33503955
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
This morning I was looking at the price of crash helmets. I saw a nice one for 120€. I was curious about how much that converted to in GBP (it turned out to be about £85, which is pretty darned cheap for a lid), and I was surprised when I saw the graph that accompanied the progression of the value of the Euro over the past 10 years. It seemed to be on a slow decline, then peaked slightly about 5 years ago & has since taken a nose dive to its current all time low - which is good for the value of the Pound, I suppose.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Good? That depends on whether you want the pound to buy a lot of Euros - to have a high value. If it does, it means what few exports we might achieve will have cost the buyer more in his local currency, so he'll be more likely to buy from a foreign competitor than make another purchase from Britain. It means a British buyer is more likely to buy something from abroad with his pounds than to buy it from a British manufacturer. The higher the value of the pound, the less money British people will get as a pay rise despite most of their money going on local costs in pounds - things like the rent or mortgage.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
Therein lies the issue with International Economy. The reason I was looking to Germany for helmet prices, though, is that ones my size are not available over here. The same is generally true of Riding Boots. In fact the only place I've found so far to do Riding Boots my size thus far is America, by Harley Davidson. Surprisingly the boots themselves are not that expensive. However, the shipping & import duties are a different matter. At the moment I have got a pair of Ugg ones on order as a compromise. Not proper Riding Boots, but tough nonetheless (Size 17, UK, incidentally - that's 18 US or 53 EU).
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
I've never had to ask for boots like those, I can imagine it's hard work. Fats Waller had a song about it. I expect you knew that.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The ugly face of Greek economic ineptitude
They're also a problem using the pedals - getting under the gears & keeping off the brake.