Tottenham's about four miles from the centre of London and it has a history of poverty and heavy-handed policing. On Thursday a local passenger in a sort-of-taxi drove into a pre-planned police ambush and ended up dead by reason of a police marksman.
London's armed police units have a history of adrenaline-fueled undesirable killings after pre-planned operations have exploded. In this case I'm left wondering why the passenger wasn't just invited to call at the local police station for questioning. He had, as I understand it, no police record, he was in fear because his brother had been knifed to death a few months ago, he may well have been scared but he was instead put into a position seemingly calculated to end up with a shooting.
The police with the guns I discount as the worst sort of crazy tossers who have infested London's police force for as long as I can remember, for whom aggression is a game and one of the reasons they signed up in the first place. The puzzle, to me, is whoever planned the operation and gave these trigger-happy gits their kill-people-lawfully prosecution-immune heads once again. Why do it? Who benefits from another Tottenham conflagration? In particular, why not have the chap surrender unarmed to police with his own lawyer in his own time if he's believed to have become a danger to the community?
It's a step too far to think an operation manager sends in his dogs with the intention of gunning down the target, though a remedial class in what happens when they're unleashed wouldn't go amiss. There's no get-out in "he could have come quietly if he'd chosen to" when the entire process is designed to panic the chap into allowing the marksman's rules of engagement to take him out. What's far more relevant is to analyze the outcomes of previous deployments and find a way to stop the "gotcha" pounce mentality.
The Tottenham Riot
The Tottenham Riot
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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The Tottenham Riot
Cars, bus, and shops set ablaze as rioters protest over man shot dead by Met police - Crime, UK - The Independent
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364198 wrote:
The police with the guns I discount as the worst sort of crazy tossers who have infested London's police force for as long as I can remember, for whom aggression is a game and one of the reasons they signed up in the first place...
Strong words. strong opinion, on reflection do you stand by them ?
So.........who would you have do that difficult job ?
The police with the guns I discount as the worst sort of crazy tossers who have infested London's police force for as long as I can remember, for whom aggression is a game and one of the reasons they signed up in the first place...
Strong words. strong opinion, on reflection do you stand by them ?
So.........who would you have do that difficult job ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Tottenham Riot
Bruv;1364208 wrote: Strong words. strong opinion, on reflection do you stand by them ?
So.........who would you have do that difficult job ?
The army, of course. The civil authority can call on the armed forces to act under civil command whenever circumstances warrant it, and that's been the case for centuries.
The existence of armed police squads is an entirely different matter and they're not themselves policed in an acceptable fashion. If they use their firearms they're allowed to confer before answering questions, they make written statements in concert and subsequently refuse to answer any police interview. They know exactly how to navigate the investigation system. Beyond that, the prosecution service and politicians bend over to extreme lengths in refusing to bring them to any form of jury trial capable of evaluating the circumstances of the shooting. I find it all completely unacceptable.
The list of dead Londoners (and the odd Brazilian) blown away by armed police, whose rules of engagement practically guarantees a lethal outcome, is well worth looking out and reading. Would you like examples, together with what happened to the goons who pulled the triggers?
As for the armed forces, a standing army of one national corps of perhaps 25,000 troops would be adequate for all levels of civil or criminal disorder. The country has as much use for an air force as I have for false eyelashes. Reducing the navy to the coastguard and an adequate permanent Trident deployment caters for all our national need for international defense and enforcing our border restrictions. But perhaps those comments could be taken to a new thread if they're picked up on, I merely drop them in here to show that the army does have a legitimate role within our borders.
There are two things I will not tolerate as regards the police. One is uniformed officers wandering the streets and airports cradling automatic weapons, the other is London's unaccountable armed squads planning any more ambushes. Every time an ambush happens it's an attempt to show the suspect as guilty as possible. If advance information exists the right response is invariably to prevent the event, not to force a surprise confrontation while deploying overwhelming firepower on a hair trigger.
So.........who would you have do that difficult job ?
The army, of course. The civil authority can call on the armed forces to act under civil command whenever circumstances warrant it, and that's been the case for centuries.
The existence of armed police squads is an entirely different matter and they're not themselves policed in an acceptable fashion. If they use their firearms they're allowed to confer before answering questions, they make written statements in concert and subsequently refuse to answer any police interview. They know exactly how to navigate the investigation system. Beyond that, the prosecution service and politicians bend over to extreme lengths in refusing to bring them to any form of jury trial capable of evaluating the circumstances of the shooting. I find it all completely unacceptable.
The list of dead Londoners (and the odd Brazilian) blown away by armed police, whose rules of engagement practically guarantees a lethal outcome, is well worth looking out and reading. Would you like examples, together with what happened to the goons who pulled the triggers?
As for the armed forces, a standing army of one national corps of perhaps 25,000 troops would be adequate for all levels of civil or criminal disorder. The country has as much use for an air force as I have for false eyelashes. Reducing the navy to the coastguard and an adequate permanent Trident deployment caters for all our national need for international defense and enforcing our border restrictions. But perhaps those comments could be taken to a new thread if they're picked up on, I merely drop them in here to show that the army does have a legitimate role within our borders.
There are two things I will not tolerate as regards the police. One is uniformed officers wandering the streets and airports cradling automatic weapons, the other is London's unaccountable armed squads planning any more ambushes. Every time an ambush happens it's an attempt to show the suspect as guilty as possible. If advance information exists the right response is invariably to prevent the event, not to force a surprise confrontation while deploying overwhelming firepower on a hair trigger.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364209 wrote: The army, of course. The civil authority can call on the armed forces to act under civil command whenever circumstances warrant it, and that's been the case for centuries.
The existence of armed police squads is an entirely different matter and they're not themselves policed in an acceptable fashion. If they use their firearms they're allowed to confer before answering questions, they make written statements in concert and subsequently refuse to answer any police interview. They know exactly how to navigate the investigation system. Beyond that, the prosecution service and politicians bend over to extreme lengths in refusing to bring them to any form of jury trial capable of evaluating the circumstances of the shooting. I find it all completely unacceptable.
The list of dead Londoners (and the odd Brazilian) blown away by armed police, whose rules of engagement practically guarantees a lethal outcome, is well worth looking out and reading. Would you like examples, together with what happened to the goons who pulled the triggers?
As for the armed forces, a standing army of one national corps of perhaps 25,000 troops would be adequate for all levels of civil or criminal disorder. The country has as much use for an air force as I have for false eyelashes. Reducing the navy to the coastguard and an adequate permanent Trident deployment caters for all our national need for international defense and enforcing our border restrictions. But perhaps those comments could be taken to a new thread if they're picked up on, I merely drop them in here to show that the army does have a legitimate role within our borders.
There are two things I will not tolerate as regards the police. One is uniformed officers wandering the streets and airports cradling machine guns, the other is London's unaccountable armed squads planning any more ambushes. Every time an ambush happens it's an attempt to show the suspect as guilty as possible. If advance information exists the right response is invariably to prevent the event, not to force a surprise confrontation while deploying overwhelming firepower on a hair trigger.
Tottenham riots: North London in flames over Mark Duggan shooting | Mail Online
Why was It an ambush ?
The details of the stop are still rather sketchy other than what appears to be fact that an exchange of fire took place after the cab was stopped.
One police officer would be dead If It were not for his radio that took the bullet. So It appears obvious at this point that the person they were seeking to pull over produced a gun and fired at the police officer,
Are you really suggesting that should this be the case, as It appears so, that other officers would not open fire to prevent him shooting another police officer or possibly members of the public?
The existence of armed police squads is an entirely different matter and they're not themselves policed in an acceptable fashion. If they use their firearms they're allowed to confer before answering questions, they make written statements in concert and subsequently refuse to answer any police interview. They know exactly how to navigate the investigation system. Beyond that, the prosecution service and politicians bend over to extreme lengths in refusing to bring them to any form of jury trial capable of evaluating the circumstances of the shooting. I find it all completely unacceptable.
The list of dead Londoners (and the odd Brazilian) blown away by armed police, whose rules of engagement practically guarantees a lethal outcome, is well worth looking out and reading. Would you like examples, together with what happened to the goons who pulled the triggers?
As for the armed forces, a standing army of one national corps of perhaps 25,000 troops would be adequate for all levels of civil or criminal disorder. The country has as much use for an air force as I have for false eyelashes. Reducing the navy to the coastguard and an adequate permanent Trident deployment caters for all our national need for international defense and enforcing our border restrictions. But perhaps those comments could be taken to a new thread if they're picked up on, I merely drop them in here to show that the army does have a legitimate role within our borders.
There are two things I will not tolerate as regards the police. One is uniformed officers wandering the streets and airports cradling machine guns, the other is London's unaccountable armed squads planning any more ambushes. Every time an ambush happens it's an attempt to show the suspect as guilty as possible. If advance information exists the right response is invariably to prevent the event, not to force a surprise confrontation while deploying overwhelming firepower on a hair trigger.
Tottenham riots: North London in flames over Mark Duggan shooting | Mail Online
Why was It an ambush ?
The details of the stop are still rather sketchy other than what appears to be fact that an exchange of fire took place after the cab was stopped.
One police officer would be dead If It were not for his radio that took the bullet. So It appears obvious at this point that the person they were seeking to pull over produced a gun and fired at the police officer,
Are you really suggesting that should this be the case, as It appears so, that other officers would not open fire to prevent him shooting another police officer or possibly members of the public?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
oscar;1364210 wrote: Why was It an ambush ?I doubt whether the Central Operations Specialist Firearms Command has ever shot anyone other than by ambush, Oscar. By all means show me occasions when they didn't.
As for what happened I'm still waiting for an unbiased account. The only people to have made a statement so far have been the Metropolitan Police, whose words in such circumstances have invariably turned out to be a tissue of lies papering over their incompetence and criminality. Would you like examples of that too?
As for what happened I'm still waiting for an unbiased account. The only people to have made a statement so far have been the Metropolitan Police, whose words in such circumstances have invariably turned out to be a tissue of lies papering over their incompetence and criminality. Would you like examples of that too?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364211 wrote: I doubt whether the Central Operations Specialist Firearms Command has ever shot anyone other than by ambush, Oscar. By all means show me occasions when they didn't.
As for what happened I'm still waiting for an unbiased account. The only people to have made a statement so far have been the Metropolitan Police, whose words in such circumstances have invariably turned out to be a tissue of lies papering over their incompetence and criminality. Would you like examples of that too?Unless you wish to post the examples for the benefit of other members Spot, you certainly do not have to do so on my account as, for well you know, I am over familiar with the failings of armed police In this country.
However, what Is crucial In this case Is learning of who fired first. The bullet In the police radio seems to confirm that the dead man fired at the police officer so It needs to be established who fired first. Some reports Indicate that police pulled over the taxi with a view to arresting the dead man and the exchange followed.
Edit...
I have just read some more reports and It appears the dead man opened fire first on the police.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... otout.html
What did you expect In the circumstances Spot ?
As for what happened I'm still waiting for an unbiased account. The only people to have made a statement so far have been the Metropolitan Police, whose words in such circumstances have invariably turned out to be a tissue of lies papering over their incompetence and criminality. Would you like examples of that too?Unless you wish to post the examples for the benefit of other members Spot, you certainly do not have to do so on my account as, for well you know, I am over familiar with the failings of armed police In this country.
However, what Is crucial In this case Is learning of who fired first. The bullet In the police radio seems to confirm that the dead man fired at the police officer so It needs to be established who fired first. Some reports Indicate that police pulled over the taxi with a view to arresting the dead man and the exchange followed.
Edit...
I have just read some more reports and It appears the dead man opened fire first on the police.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... otout.html
What did you expect In the circumstances Spot ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
Rachel Cerfontyne, commissioner with the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) which is investigating Mr Duggan's death, said the 29-year-old had not been "assassinated in an execution style" and that there was "misinformation" about the death on Thursday.
BBC News - London riots: Met Police launch major investigation
Christ on a bicycle woman, you're meant to be investigating the event not defending officers of the Central Operations Specialist Firearms Command before your evidence is in. Produce a report and I'll read it, but I don't see any police officers as being likely to fear your so-called impartiality. The IPCC is part of the problem, it will only help produce a solution if it does the job it claims to do.
Here's what I'll look for in your report.
Did you ensure that an independent forensic analysis was performed on the corpse of Mark Duggan to demonstrate whether he fired a gun or not, and what was the result.
Did you check when the damaged police radio went off the net, and when was it.
Did you watch CCTV footage of the killing and what did you see? And no, you can't pretend there was none, of course it existed. I sincerely hope you've made certain that it still does and that it can't be "disappeared".
BBC News - London riots: Met Police launch major investigation
Christ on a bicycle woman, you're meant to be investigating the event not defending officers of the Central Operations Specialist Firearms Command before your evidence is in. Produce a report and I'll read it, but I don't see any police officers as being likely to fear your so-called impartiality. The IPCC is part of the problem, it will only help produce a solution if it does the job it claims to do.
Here's what I'll look for in your report.
Did you ensure that an independent forensic analysis was performed on the corpse of Mark Duggan to demonstrate whether he fired a gun or not, and what was the result.
Did you check when the damaged police radio went off the net, and when was it.
Did you watch CCTV footage of the killing and what did you see? And no, you can't pretend there was none, of course it existed. I sincerely hope you've made certain that it still does and that it can't be "disappeared".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Tottenham Riot
oscar;1364213 wrote: I have just read some more reports and It appears the dead man opened fire first on the police.
What did you expect In the circumstances Spot ?
Have you not noticed the lies from the police today? Like this morning, policeman with serious head injury in hospital, this afternoon, all injured police have now been released from hospital?
I haven't the slightest faith in any information provided by the Metropolitan Police and I feel quite justified in having none. What would you expect the sods to say - that they fired without being threatened with a firearm? I think not.
What did you expect In the circumstances Spot ?
Have you not noticed the lies from the police today? Like this morning, policeman with serious head injury in hospital, this afternoon, all injured police have now been released from hospital?
I haven't the slightest faith in any information provided by the Metropolitan Police and I feel quite justified in having none. What would you expect the sods to say - that they fired without being threatened with a firearm? I think not.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364245 wrote: Have you not noticed the lies from the police today? Like this morning, policeman with serious head injury in hospital, this afternoon, all injured police have now been released from hospital?
I haven't the slightest faith in any information provided by the Metropolitan Police and I feel quite justified in having none. What would you expect the sods to say - that they fired without being fired on first? I think not.
I also share your feelings that there will be something amiss to the entire episode and no doubt there will be an Inquiry by police chiefs quickly followed by an Independent Inquiry Into the police corruption surrounding the first Inquiry given the history of our armed police.
However, If reports are true, until this country passes a bill for the public to bear arms, one has to ask, what was the alleged would be gangster doing In the possession of a hand gun In the back of a taxi In North London?
It Is In relation as I understand It that gang related gun crime has risen to the degree In some parts of London that our police would be fool-hardy, not to arm themselves.
These people can not have It both ways Spot. If they want to play the gangster and go about their business armed amid the public, unarmed, whilst It is against the law to do so, then one must expect some of the circumstances that ensue.
Even with this countries appalling history of armed police and cover-up's, three wrongs do not neccessarilly make a fourth.
The questions you asked In your post certainly need to be looked at, i.e. cctv footage and time the bullets were exchanged on both sides.
I haven't the slightest faith in any information provided by the Metropolitan Police and I feel quite justified in having none. What would you expect the sods to say - that they fired without being fired on first? I think not.
I also share your feelings that there will be something amiss to the entire episode and no doubt there will be an Inquiry by police chiefs quickly followed by an Independent Inquiry Into the police corruption surrounding the first Inquiry given the history of our armed police.
However, If reports are true, until this country passes a bill for the public to bear arms, one has to ask, what was the alleged would be gangster doing In the possession of a hand gun In the back of a taxi In North London?
It Is In relation as I understand It that gang related gun crime has risen to the degree In some parts of London that our police would be fool-hardy, not to arm themselves.
These people can not have It both ways Spot. If they want to play the gangster and go about their business armed amid the public, unarmed, whilst It is against the law to do so, then one must expect some of the circumstances that ensue.
Even with this countries appalling history of armed police and cover-up's, three wrongs do not neccessarilly make a fourth.
The questions you asked In your post certainly need to be looked at, i.e. cctv footage and time the bullets were exchanged on both sides.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364246 wrote: I think it is early days to jump to conclusions. I do feel that we need to await the findings of an investigation which hopefully will inform the nation details of the incident, including who fired first ! It is a mistake to make judgements before the findings of an investigation are made public don't you think ?
So you've said before in other circumstances, Gill. It's something you've learned elsewhere. It's bunkum. Discussing the available information as it arrives is a perfectly legitimate way of exploring an unfolding topic. If you think otherwise perhaps you'd be so good as to explain why.
So you've said before in other circumstances, Gill. It's something you've learned elsewhere. It's bunkum. Discussing the available information as it arrives is a perfectly legitimate way of exploring an unfolding topic. If you think otherwise perhaps you'd be so good as to explain why.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Tottenham Riot
oscar;1364247 wrote: However, If reports are true, until this country passes a bill for the public to bear arms, one has to ask, what was the alleged would be gangster doing In the possession of a hand gun In the back of a taxi In North London?Has anyone other than the police claimed he was armed? I think not. You'll understand that since I don't trust the word of the officers involved in the incident I'm not prepared to accept "if reports are true" as true. Not until there's been independent confirmation.
That section of the Metropolitan force has lied in the past. They consequently have no current demand on my credulity.
That section of the Metropolitan force has lied in the past. They consequently have no current demand on my credulity.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364251 wrote: Has anyone other than the police claimed he was armed? I think not. You'll understand that since I don't trust the word of the officers involved in the incident I'm not prepared to accept "if reports are true" as true. Not until there's been independent confirmation.
That section of the Metropolitan force has lied in the past. They consequently have no current demand on my credulity. I am not In disagreement with you In relation as to what to believe but one can assume that first and fore-most, the officer Involved would have produced a radio with a bullet In It given reports.
How can anyone else at this stage claim he was armed with exception possibly to the taxi driver.? In this early stage, considering the victim Is now dead, the only reports will come from the police Involved. At a later date, we may hear from the taxi driver and passers by.
That section of the Metropolitan force has lied in the past. They consequently have no current demand on my credulity. I am not In disagreement with you In relation as to what to believe but one can assume that first and fore-most, the officer Involved would have produced a radio with a bullet In It given reports.
How can anyone else at this stage claim he was armed with exception possibly to the taxi driver.? In this early stage, considering the victim Is now dead, the only reports will come from the police Involved. At a later date, we may hear from the taxi driver and passers by.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
Perhaps you missed the question directed to the IPCC: "Did you ensure that an independent forensic analysis was performed on the corpse of Mark Duggan to demonstrate whether he fired a gun or not, and what was the result".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364262 wrote: Who directed that question to the IPCC ?
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/curre ... ost1364243
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/curre ... ost1364243
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Betty Boop
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The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364260 wrote: Oh discussion is healthy enough, but to be too vehement about how something possibly happened is running the risk of getting 'egg on the face' should the matter turn out to be contrary to what one has expounded.
Spot I wish you would refrain from describing things that I say as 'bunkum' or use similar derogatory terminology, please.
You're a fine one to talk! :-2
Spot I wish you would refrain from describing things that I say as 'bunkum' or use similar derogatory terminology, please.
You're a fine one to talk! :-2
The Tottenham Riot
I agree with Spot. There are some cops that are in it for the power trip and the occasional chance to shoot somebody.
This incident happened awhile back here in Seattle. It was a case of mistaken identity but this take down was not necessary. What you don't see in the video is the officer and suspect in the moments BEFORE the hit. The man was trying to get away from the area and yes he was disobedient. The officer came at him from a standing position and hit the man full force knocking him into a wall, breaking his neck.
Family Wins Record $10 Million Dollars When Cop Slams Innocent Man Causing Coma! - YouTube
That hot headed officer has had other incidents. He likes to crack a few heads whenever he feels the need and can get away with it. Unfortunately the Union spares no expense in protecting him even though there are other officers willing to speak out against him. There's no doubt in my mind about Spots stance on this.
This incident happened awhile back here in Seattle. It was a case of mistaken identity but this take down was not necessary. What you don't see in the video is the officer and suspect in the moments BEFORE the hit. The man was trying to get away from the area and yes he was disobedient. The officer came at him from a standing position and hit the man full force knocking him into a wall, breaking his neck.
Family Wins Record $10 Million Dollars When Cop Slams Innocent Man Causing Coma! - YouTube
That hot headed officer has had other incidents. He likes to crack a few heads whenever he feels the need and can get away with it. Unfortunately the Union spares no expense in protecting him even though there are other officers willing to speak out against him. There's no doubt in my mind about Spots stance on this.
The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364266 wrote: I have read this link and I still cannot see who asked the question, so could you tell me please? I only ask because it would be the sort of question that needed to be asked and an answer received, and made public.
You really puzzle me sometimes. It's a post by me. It has the words "Here's what I'll look for in your report" in it. Who else do you think wrote the subsequent questions?
You really puzzle me sometimes. It's a post by me. It has the words "Here's what I'll look for in your report" in it. Who else do you think wrote the subsequent questions?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364262 wrote: Who directed that question to the IPCC ? Spot hypothetically posed the question to Rachel Cerfontyne, commissioner with the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) which is investigating Mr Duggan's death In relation to the link he posted Gill.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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spot;1364258 wrote: Perhaps you missed the question directed to the IPCC: "Did you ensure that an independent forensic analysis was performed on the corpse of Mark Duggan to demonstrate whether he fired a gun or not, and what was the result".
I think In light of the ensuing violence, rioting and public glare, the IPCC would be foolish In the extreme not to orchestrate a separate Independent autopsy of Mark Duggan given the farce of the police autopsy on Ian Tomlinson. The public are far too aware these days to expect much else but these things will take time.
I think In light of the ensuing violence, rioting and public glare, the IPCC would be foolish In the extreme not to orchestrate a separate Independent autopsy of Mark Duggan given the farce of the police autopsy on Ian Tomlinson. The public are far too aware these days to expect much else but these things will take time.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
Betty Boop;1364265 wrote: You're a fine one to talk! :-2
Why did you have to say that ? It has no relevance to the subject of the thread whatsoever !
Why did you have to say that ? It has no relevance to the subject of the thread whatsoever !
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364278 wrote: Why did you have to say that ? It has no relevance to the subject of the thread whatsoever !
No, it hasn't and harping about the fact you resigned as moderator in Pam's place has no relevance either.
No, it hasn't and harping about the fact you resigned as moderator in Pam's place has no relevance either.
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The Tottenham Riot
Betty Boop;1364280 wrote: No, it hasn't and harping about the fact you resigned as moderator in Pam's place has no relevance either. Can we please adhere to the subject of the thread?
Back to subject:
The plot thickens.... It now seems the bullet lodged In the police officer's radio was police Issue....
Tottenham riot: Bullet fired at officer 'belonged to police', fuelling fury about shooting of Mark Duggan | Mail Online
Back to subject:
The plot thickens.... It now seems the bullet lodged In the police officer's radio was police Issue....
Tottenham riot: Bullet fired at officer 'belonged to police', fuelling fury about shooting of Mark Duggan | Mail Online
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
This might prove useful background reading on the lethality of Keystone Kops buffoonery and their absolute immunity from any consequence.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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spot;1364293 wrote: This might prove useful background reading on the lethality of Keystone Kops buffoonery and their absolute immunity from any consequence.
I remember vividly the case of Harry Stanley.
I did raise the question In my earlier post of 'What was he doing with a gun In the back of a taxi'? but If the bullet lodged In the police radio Is Indeed police Issue, then I would now question as to weather he had a gun In the first place.
This Is a circumstance of an equation. Rises In gun crime In London equate more armed police. The more armed police, the more likely, a fatal error. We are victims of our own society and the rising trend In gun related crime and gang warfare.
I remember vividly the case of Harry Stanley.
I did raise the question In my earlier post of 'What was he doing with a gun In the back of a taxi'? but If the bullet lodged In the police radio Is Indeed police Issue, then I would now question as to weather he had a gun In the first place.
This Is a circumstance of an equation. Rises In gun crime In London equate more armed police. The more armed police, the more likely, a fatal error. We are victims of our own society and the rising trend In gun related crime and gang warfare.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
A police force with the slightest shred of professional integrity would strive to kill fewer people than it lost officers unlawfully killed in the line of duty. If this one wants to aim for such a goal in the long term it needs to change its recruitment policy. In the short term it stands no chance whatever.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364297 wrote: A police force with the slightest shred of professional integrity would strive to kill fewer people than it lost officers in the line of duty. If this one wants to aim for such a goal in the long term it needs to change its recruitment policy. In the short term it stands no chance whatever.
I agree for change In the recruitment policy and would welcome some kind of psychological profiling of any officer wanting a gun. ( If they don't already ). The force seems to be littered with 'wannabe's 'out to Impress rather than protecting the public and as a consequence then see's no harm In systematically lying under oath to save their own butts.
I agree for change In the recruitment policy and would welcome some kind of psychological profiling of any officer wanting a gun. ( If they don't already ). The force seems to be littered with 'wannabe's 'out to Impress rather than protecting the public and as a consequence then see's no harm In systematically lying under oath to save their own butts.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
Were it not that a man died in the ambush it's reminiscent of Monty Python's "Burn the Witch" bit. "He shot at us your lordship, he threatened us with a gun, he shot at us", "But I understand the gun of unknown origin was eventually found in the mini-cab after the killing wrapped in a sock", "Well yes but he shot at us". Plonkers. And how do you know he wasn't holding a gun when he was shot? Because the Met would have triumphantly announced it by now if it were so, that's how, instead of lying low licking their self-inflicted public relations wounds. It's one step up from outright falsehoods like "he leapt the ticket barrier" so maybe they're finally getting that point at least.
The huge police error stems from far higher in the organization than this notorious rogue unit at Leman Street screwing up every time it leaves the canteen. It's the chap at the top who feels it's his duty to defend the buggers from prosecution instead of making an example of them. Every single time, commanders who could actually scour this barrel feel it would upset his force if he didn't pat them on the head and leave them immune instead of hanging them out to dry. That's why there's a continuing problem.
There's a direct cause and effect in all this. Question: Why did the Tottenham Riots happen? Answer: Because Metropolitan Police policy makers and the Prosecution Service provide de-facto blanket immunity to armed officers and their controllers regardless of their actions, without which Mark Duggan would still be alive.
What needs to be changed is the rules of engagement and the operation planning. The central issue should invariably be how do we prevent the person we're after from ending up dead, how do we avoid putting ourselves in a position where pulling the trigger is the only option that guarantees our safety from all hypothetical danger. Is that an issue at all in current operation planning? If it is then it's evidently a lip-service throw-away tick in a box. The overall way to stop this outcome is to stop setting ambushes. The operations are designed to have the victims going about their business oblivious to what's about to happen and then kapow, armed police stop or we'll shoot, panic panic panic. How's that meant to end up happily? And yet it's considered good practice?
The huge police error stems from far higher in the organization than this notorious rogue unit at Leman Street screwing up every time it leaves the canteen. It's the chap at the top who feels it's his duty to defend the buggers from prosecution instead of making an example of them. Every single time, commanders who could actually scour this barrel feel it would upset his force if he didn't pat them on the head and leave them immune instead of hanging them out to dry. That's why there's a continuing problem.
There's a direct cause and effect in all this. Question: Why did the Tottenham Riots happen? Answer: Because Metropolitan Police policy makers and the Prosecution Service provide de-facto blanket immunity to armed officers and their controllers regardless of their actions, without which Mark Duggan would still be alive.
What needs to be changed is the rules of engagement and the operation planning. The central issue should invariably be how do we prevent the person we're after from ending up dead, how do we avoid putting ourselves in a position where pulling the trigger is the only option that guarantees our safety from all hypothetical danger. Is that an issue at all in current operation planning? If it is then it's evidently a lip-service throw-away tick in a box. The overall way to stop this outcome is to stop setting ambushes. The operations are designed to have the victims going about their business oblivious to what's about to happen and then kapow, armed police stop or we'll shoot, panic panic panic. How's that meant to end up happily? And yet it's considered good practice?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364310 wrote: Were it not that a man died in the ambush it's reminiscent of Monty Python's "Burn the Witch" bit. "He shot at us your lordship, he threatened us with a gun, he shot at us", "But I understand the gun of unknown origin was eventually found in the mini-cab after the killing wrapped in a sock", "Well yes but he shot at us". Plonkers.
The huge police error stems from far higher in the organization than this notorious rogue unit at Leman Street screwing up every time it leaves the canteen. It's the chap at the top who feels it's his duty to defend the buggers from prosecution instead of making an example of them. Every single time, commanders who could actually scour this barrel feel it would upset his force if he didn't pat them on the head and leave them immune instead of hanging them out to dry. That's why there's a continuing problem.
There's a direct cause and effect in all this. Question: Why did the Tottenham Riots happen? Answer: Because Metropolitan Police policy makers and the Prosecution Service provide de-facto blanket immunity to armed officers and their controllers regardless of their actions, without which Mark Duggan would still be alive.
What needs to be changed is the rules of engagement and the operation planning. The central issue should invariably be how do we prevent the person we're after from ending up dead, how do we avoid putting ourselves in a position where pulling the trigger is the only option that guarantees our safety from all hypothetical danger. Is that an issue at all in current operation planning? If it is then it's evidently a lip-service throw-away tick in a box. The overall way to stop this outcome is to stop setting ambushes. The operations are designed to have the victims going about their business oblivious to what's about to happen and then kapow, armed police stop or we'll shoot, panic panic panic. How's that meant to end up happily? And yet it's considered good practice?The more I see and read, the more the police account does not add up.
I have this feeling that this was In all probability, a case of mistaken Identity. Regardless of weather Duggan had a gun, If It was recovered In a sock from the cab, then he did not fire and shoot.
If It Is Indeed true that the bullet lodged In the police radio was police Issue, then this could only have happened In a situation where the shot police officer was one side of the cab and another police officer, the other side. One officer accidentally shot the other which Indicates an ambush of officers either side of the cab.
However, the ensuing riots and violence were not In the main friends and family of Mark Duggan who the police have left with so many unanswered questions but Opportunism looting and thuggery akin to The New Cheltenham Road, Tesco riots In Bristol recently.
The huge police error stems from far higher in the organization than this notorious rogue unit at Leman Street screwing up every time it leaves the canteen. It's the chap at the top who feels it's his duty to defend the buggers from prosecution instead of making an example of them. Every single time, commanders who could actually scour this barrel feel it would upset his force if he didn't pat them on the head and leave them immune instead of hanging them out to dry. That's why there's a continuing problem.
There's a direct cause and effect in all this. Question: Why did the Tottenham Riots happen? Answer: Because Metropolitan Police policy makers and the Prosecution Service provide de-facto blanket immunity to armed officers and their controllers regardless of their actions, without which Mark Duggan would still be alive.
What needs to be changed is the rules of engagement and the operation planning. The central issue should invariably be how do we prevent the person we're after from ending up dead, how do we avoid putting ourselves in a position where pulling the trigger is the only option that guarantees our safety from all hypothetical danger. Is that an issue at all in current operation planning? If it is then it's evidently a lip-service throw-away tick in a box. The overall way to stop this outcome is to stop setting ambushes. The operations are designed to have the victims going about their business oblivious to what's about to happen and then kapow, armed police stop or we'll shoot, panic panic panic. How's that meant to end up happily? And yet it's considered good practice?The more I see and read, the more the police account does not add up.
I have this feeling that this was In all probability, a case of mistaken Identity. Regardless of weather Duggan had a gun, If It was recovered In a sock from the cab, then he did not fire and shoot.
If It Is Indeed true that the bullet lodged In the police radio was police Issue, then this could only have happened In a situation where the shot police officer was one side of the cab and another police officer, the other side. One officer accidentally shot the other which Indicates an ambush of officers either side of the cab.
However, the ensuing riots and violence were not In the main friends and family of Mark Duggan who the police have left with so many unanswered questions but Opportunism looting and thuggery akin to The New Cheltenham Road, Tesco riots In Bristol recently.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
The ensuing riots and violence are a trivial sideshow being promoted by the Met to main billing in order to deflect attention from their staggeringly incompetent Leman Street unit. Every wannabe Eminem style rioter from fifty miles around has joined in the fun and games. I'd be more than happy to see a few dozen of them rubber-bulleted into A&E and I'm puzzled the riot police haven't deployed Tazer rifles. That has nothing at all to do with the outrageous trigger for the events. The Met are, I imagine, relieved at all the attention the riots are getting.
I'm also wondering what fool it was who thought dressing up flesh-and-blood police officers as non-human Galactic Empire Roboids and standing them in lines to get concrete blocks dropped on them from rooftops was a good idea. Perhaps he just wants a bigger budget next year, whoever he is.
I'm also wondering what fool it was who thought dressing up flesh-and-blood police officers as non-human Galactic Empire Roboids and standing them in lines to get concrete blocks dropped on them from rooftops was a good idea. Perhaps he just wants a bigger budget next year, whoever he is.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364340 wrote: The ensuing riots and violence are a trivial sideshow being promoted by the Met to main billing in order to deflect attention from their staggeringly incompetent Leman Street unit. Every wannabe Eminem style rioter from fifty miles around has joined in the fun and games. I'd be more than happy to see a few dozen of them rubber-bulleted into A&E and I'm puzzled the riot police haven't deployed Tazer rifles. That has nothing at all to do with the outrageous trigger for the events. The Met are, I imagine, relieved at all the attention the riots are getting.
I'm also wondering what fool it was who thought dressing up flesh-and-blood police officers as non-human Galactic Empire Roboids and standing them in lines to get concrete blocks dropped on them from rooftops was a good idea. Perhaps he just wants a bigger budget next year, whoever he is.
I have to agree with you.
How better to divert public attention away from a monumental balls up than to Incite a riot?
How arrogant of the woman leading the Inquiry for the IPCC to go on holiday when the country Is up In arms and so many questions need answering.?
What also, of the disgusting way the Met has treated the Duggan family by It appears refusing to communicate with them until the ensuing riots told them there was an Issue ?
I'm also wondering what fool it was who thought dressing up flesh-and-blood police officers as non-human Galactic Empire Roboids and standing them in lines to get concrete blocks dropped on them from rooftops was a good idea. Perhaps he just wants a bigger budget next year, whoever he is.
I have to agree with you.
How better to divert public attention away from a monumental balls up than to Incite a riot?
How arrogant of the woman leading the Inquiry for the IPCC to go on holiday when the country Is up In arms and so many questions need answering.?
What also, of the disgusting way the Met has treated the Duggan family by It appears refusing to communicate with them until the ensuing riots told them there was an Issue ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
Sorry for interrupting ........................... couldn't resist this !
From the 'New Posts' list..............................
The Tottenham Riot
Started by spot, Yesterday 08:03 AM
[ I'm saying nowt ! ]
From the 'New Posts' list..............................
The Tottenham Riot
Started by spot, Yesterday 08:03 AM
[ I'm saying nowt ! ]
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
The Tottenham Riot
I wasn't there, I have two alibis and besides my balaclava's navy blue not black so it can't have been.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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The Tottenham Riot
G#Gill;1364343 wrote: Sorry for interrupting ........................... couldn't resist this !
From the 'New Posts' list..............................
The Tottenham Riot
Started by spot, Yesterday 08:03 AM
[ I'm saying nowt ! ] Lack of coffee must be to blame but sorry, I do not see the significance. :-3
From the 'New Posts' list..............................
The Tottenham Riot
Started by spot, Yesterday 08:03 AM
[ I'm saying nowt ! ] Lack of coffee must be to blame but sorry, I do not see the significance. :-3
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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The Tottenham Riot
'The Tottenham Riot - Started by spot' :wah:
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Betty Boop;1364348 wrote: 'The Tottenham Riot - Started by spot' :wah:
Got it :wah:
Got it :wah:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1364355 wrote: Got it :wah:
Thank gawd for that
Spot starting it wouldn't be such a surprise would it :wah:
Thank gawd for that
Spot starting it wouldn't be such a surprise would it :wah:The Tottenham Riot
Frighteningly it is currently that is right now five to eight on 8th August occuring all over London.
Hackney Lewisham Peckham live on Sky news.
Hackney Lewisham Peckham live on Sky news.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1364383 wrote: Frighteningly it is currently that is right now five to eight on 8th August occuring all over London.
Hackney Lewisham Peckham live on Sky news.
All over BBC news too, bus on fire in Peckham
Hackney Lewisham Peckham live on Sky news.
All over BBC news too, bus on fire in Peckham
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Pork loin browning nicely under the grill In Bristol.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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The Tottenham Riot
Reports of rioting in Birmingham too.
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Why can't the army be brought in?
And, what's the matter with people out there 'watching' :-2
And, what's the matter with people out there 'watching' :-2
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Betty Boop;1364397 wrote: Why can't the army be brought in?
And, what's the matter with people out there 'watching' :-2 Don't panic.... Dave's on holiday In Italy but we're Ok because Nick Clegg Is In charge....
RUN FOR THE HILLS
And, what's the matter with people out there 'watching' :-2 Don't panic.... Dave's on holiday In Italy but we're Ok because Nick Clegg Is In charge....
RUN FOR THE HILLS
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1364402 wrote: Don't panic.... Dave's on holiday In Italy but we're Ok because Nick Clegg Is In charge....
RUN FOR THE HILLS
Keep up mrs, Dave's decided to cut his holidays short all will be ok within a few hours... not!
RUN FOR THE HILLS
Keep up mrs, Dave's decided to cut his holidays short all will be ok within a few hours... not!
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Betty Boop;1364404 wrote: Keep up mrs, Dave's decided to cut his holidays short all will be ok within a few hours... not!
Can you Imagine the conversation ?
Silvio Berlusconi to Cameron.... errr Dave, best you get home quick... your countries on fire.
Can you Imagine the conversation ?
Silvio Berlusconi to Cameron.... errr Dave, best you get home quick... your countries on fire.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Tottenham Riot
oscar;1364210 wrote: Tottenham riots: North London in flames over Mark Duggan shooting | Mail Online
Why was It an ambush ?
Because the police knew where he would be and when and went there to wait for him, without his knowledge, in order to capture him. How does that not fit the description of an ambush?
oscar;1364210 wrote:
The details of the stop are still rather sketchy other than what appears to be fact that an exchange of fire took place after the cab was stopped.
One police officer would be dead If It were not for his radio that took the bullet. So It appears obvious at this point that the person they were seeking to pull over produced a gun and fired at the police officer,
Are you really suggesting that should this be the case, as It appears so, that other officers would not open fire to prevent him shooting another police officer or possibly members of the public?
If you notice, neither of the articles that you linked to make any such suggestion.
Everything that's being said locally is emphatic that he did not attack the police or resist arrest and no one, locally or nationally has produced any evidence to the contrary.
Further, the situation remained calm for a long time after the shooting. The family of the dead man went to the police station in order to ask what had happened and why. The police refused to talk to then and, after several hours of being asked, peacefully, the police saw an ever increasing number of people outside the station and baton charged them. Word went around that a sixteen year old girl had been hit over the head with a truncheon and, whether that was true or not, it sparked the riot.
The family are horrified at the outcome and are appealing for calm, saying that this is not at their wish and that all that they want is to be told what happened to their son / brother.
There are so many questions over this incident that you cannot possibly say that anything "appears obvious" - especially when it has not even been reported to have happened and would save a lot of police bacon if it had.
Why was It an ambush ?
Because the police knew where he would be and when and went there to wait for him, without his knowledge, in order to capture him. How does that not fit the description of an ambush?
oscar;1364210 wrote:
The details of the stop are still rather sketchy other than what appears to be fact that an exchange of fire took place after the cab was stopped.
One police officer would be dead If It were not for his radio that took the bullet. So It appears obvious at this point that the person they were seeking to pull over produced a gun and fired at the police officer,
Are you really suggesting that should this be the case, as It appears so, that other officers would not open fire to prevent him shooting another police officer or possibly members of the public?
If you notice, neither of the articles that you linked to make any such suggestion.
Everything that's being said locally is emphatic that he did not attack the police or resist arrest and no one, locally or nationally has produced any evidence to the contrary.
Further, the situation remained calm for a long time after the shooting. The family of the dead man went to the police station in order to ask what had happened and why. The police refused to talk to then and, after several hours of being asked, peacefully, the police saw an ever increasing number of people outside the station and baton charged them. Word went around that a sixteen year old girl had been hit over the head with a truncheon and, whether that was true or not, it sparked the riot.
The family are horrified at the outcome and are appealing for calm, saying that this is not at their wish and that all that they want is to be told what happened to their son / brother.
There are so many questions over this incident that you cannot possibly say that anything "appears obvious" - especially when it has not even been reported to have happened and would save a lot of police bacon if it had.
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The Tottenham Riot
Bryn Mawr;1364407 wrote: Because the police knew where he would be and when and went there to wait for him, without his knowledge, in order to capture him. How does that not fit the description of an ambush?
If you notice, neither of the articles that you linked to make any such suggestion.
Everything that's being said locally is emphatic that he did not attack the police or resist arrest and no one, locally or nationally has produced any evidence to the contrary.
Further, the situation remained calm for a long time after the shooting. The family of the dead man went to the police station in order to ask what had happened and why. The police refused to talk to then and, after several hours of being asked, peacefully, the police saw an ever increasing number of people outside the station and baton charged them. Word went around that a sixteen year old girl had been hit over the head with a truncheon and, whether that was true or not, it sparked the riot.
The family are horrified at the outcome and are appealing for calm, saying that this is not at their wish and that all that they want is to be told what happened to their son / brother.
There are so many questions over this incident that you cannot possibly say that anything "appears obvious" - especially when it has not even been reported to have happened and would save a lot of police bacon if it had.
If you read my posts after those you have quoted Bryn, you will see that my Initial theories disappeared with the more that came to light at a later date especially my post that I would not be at all surprised If they had a case of mistaken Identity and also that police must have been on both sides of the car for one officer to have a polic Issue bullet In his radio.
If you notice, neither of the articles that you linked to make any such suggestion.
Everything that's being said locally is emphatic that he did not attack the police or resist arrest and no one, locally or nationally has produced any evidence to the contrary.
Further, the situation remained calm for a long time after the shooting. The family of the dead man went to the police station in order to ask what had happened and why. The police refused to talk to then and, after several hours of being asked, peacefully, the police saw an ever increasing number of people outside the station and baton charged them. Word went around that a sixteen year old girl had been hit over the head with a truncheon and, whether that was true or not, it sparked the riot.
The family are horrified at the outcome and are appealing for calm, saying that this is not at their wish and that all that they want is to be told what happened to their son / brother.
There are so many questions over this incident that you cannot possibly say that anything "appears obvious" - especially when it has not even been reported to have happened and would save a lot of police bacon if it had.
If you read my posts after those you have quoted Bryn, you will see that my Initial theories disappeared with the more that came to light at a later date especially my post that I would not be at all surprised If they had a case of mistaken Identity and also that police must have been on both sides of the car for one officer to have a polic Issue bullet In his radio.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
The Tottenham Riot
Betty Boop;1364397 wrote: Why can't the army be brought in?
:-2 Because our army Is fighting Illegal wars elsewhere !
:-2 Because our army Is fighting Illegal wars elsewhere !
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Betty Boop
- Posts: 16987
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
The Tottenham Riot
oscar;1364409 wrote: Because our army Is fighting Illegal wars elsewhere !
Not every single soldier is out there! What about the TA's ? One thing is obvious, there's a lack of police to cope with the situation.
Not every single soldier is out there! What about the TA's ? One thing is obvious, there's a lack of police to cope with the situation.
The Tottenham Riot
spot;1364250 wrote: So you've said before in other circumstances, Gill. It's something you've learned elsewhere. It's bunkum. Discussing the available information as it arrives is a perfectly legitimate way of exploring an unfolding topic. If you think otherwise perhaps you'd be so good as to explain why.
It is certainly a mistake to make judgements before sufficient information is available and we have certainly only heard half a story so far.
It is certainly a mistake to make judgements before sufficient information is available and we have certainly only heard half a story so far.