This does not bode well.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:54 pm

The most important thing in any economy is not money, power or anything else. It's people. God help us.

YouTube - ‪Brain, No Gain: College a bad investment for jobless US grads‬‏

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:49 am

The tragedy is we in the UK have now moved away from the principle of further education being freely available for all and going back to it being a preserve of the already rich. You have a more serious problem it seems to me as anything that smacks of government action to help the poorer members of siciety you call communism. I

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:23 am

There are certain well paying career fields that almost insure employability and can be determined beforehead. Why then choose History as a Major just because you like history but not likely to find employment.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:49 am

Lon;1361542 wrote: There are certain well paying career fields that almost insure employability and can be determined beforehead. Why then choose History as a Major just because you like history but not likely to find employment.This sums up where we've come to, it's close to being no more possible to want to understand who and what we are, only what we do. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:12 am

Ahso!;1361544 wrote: This sums up where we've come to, it's close to being no more possible to want to understand who and what we are, only what we do. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

It's all about survival and the best way to survive in a world that is in a state of flux. If it were an ideal world we could all afford to be idealistic.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:47 am

Lon;1361553 wrote: It's all about survival and the best way to survive in a world that is in a state of flux. If it were an ideal world we could all afford to be idealistic.That would certainly appear to be the motivating factor. The question as I see it is: which is a more long term approach to survival? Long term thinking appears to escape the majority of individuals of our species, grouping, however, is where we see long term thinking exercised. But of course, as we all appear to agree, most of them, i.e. religions and governments, eventually become selfish and cease to serve the collective.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:23 am

Lon;1361542 wrote: There are certain well paying career fields that almost insure employability and can be determined beforehead. Why then choose History as a Major just because you like history but not likely to find employment.

The old idea behind a general degree was that it rounded out the person, studying the humanities trained you to think for yourself and the specialist subjects like engineering could be studied alongside it. If you study history, psychology and the like it's easy to apply the same analytical skills to management and you might have a better idea of what makes people tick. while someone who studies business studies might not have what it takes to be a good manager. Business studies is a comparativey easy option. You study chemistry, mathematics, physics on the way to being a scientist not to get a job.

If you look at all the innovatins that have changed the way we live the best have come from people following their interests and not what would make them money. The classic example must be the laser- scientists involved were just exploring what they could do the practical applications came later. Mosy drugs come from plants it wasn't chemists who discovered them but people interested in plants and how they can be used.

For a capitlaist economy to work you need a highly educated workforce, it's one of the fundamental principles, it's ecomnomic suicide to cut off access to education. Why do you think Japan and now China put so much emphasis on it? They are copying the west just as we are turning our backs on what made the west so successful. America has adoopted a forn=m of capiotalism that just doesn't work in the long run. Not that I really care but we are following you and that annoys me.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:56 am

gmc;1361651 wrote: The old idea behind a general degree was that it rounded out the person, studying the humanities trained you to think for yourself and the specialist subjects like engineering could be studied alongside it. If you study history, psychology and the like it's easy to apply the same analytical skills to management and you might have a better idea of what makes people tick. while someone who studies business studies might not have what it takes to be a good manager. Business studies is a comparativey easy option. You study chemistry, mathematics, physics on the way to being a scientist not to get a job.

If you look at all the innovatins that have changed the way we live the best have come from people following their interests and not what would make them money. The classic example must be the laser- scientists involved were just exploring what they could do the practical applications came later. Mosy drugs come from plants it wasn't chemists who discovered them but people interested in plants and how they can be used.

For a capitlaist economy to work you need a highly educated workforce, it's one of the fundamental principles, it's ecomnomic suicide to cut off access to education. Why do you think Japan and now China put so much emphasis on it? They are copying the west just as we are turning our backs on what made the west so successful. America has adoopted a forn=m of capiotalism that just doesn't work in the long run. Not that I really care but we are following you and that annoys me.

I agree with every thing you say and it holds true for the past here in the US of A, however, considering the the present state of the job market in the U.S. one would be better to specialize if they seek employment.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:52 am

Lon;1361656 wrote: I agree with every thing you say and it holds true for the past here in the US of A, however, considering the the present state of the job market in the U.S. one would be better to specialize if they seek employment.

It takes decades to build a good education system but only a few to wreck it. The same with an industrial economy, any such that doesn't take care to ensure a continuing supply of educated workers is lining it's own coffin. Education isn't a luxury for the few it's a vital resource you need to keep building on. I left school in the seventies and that was bad enough.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:18 pm

Lon;1361656 wrote: I agree with every thing you say and it holds true for the past here in the US of A, however, considering the the present state of the job market in the U.S. one would be better to specialize if they seek employment.Honestly, I think they have a better chance if they recite the Walmart Cheer or learn how to flip burgers properly.

The problem with specialty fields is there aren't enough to go around, just ask all the unemployed college graduates.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:19 pm

gmc;1361661 wrote: It takes decades to build a good education system but only a few to wreck it. The same with an industrial economy, any such that doesn't take care to ensure a continuing supply of educated workers is lining it's own coffin. Education isn't a luxury for the few it's a vital resource you need to keep building on. I left school in the seventies and that was bad enough.

They started by destroying vocational education when they killed the apprentice system and now they appear to be determined to destroy the academic system completely. Are they deliberately forcing us back into the third world?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:35 pm

Ahso!;1361668 wrote: Honestly, I think they have a better chance if they recite the Walmart Cheer or learn how to flip burgers properly.

The problem with specialty fields is there aren't enough to go around, just ask all the unemployed college graduates.

I was referring to the currently IN DEMAND specialty fields like-----damn near anything in the medical line, nursing, xray techs, lab workers ---------lot's of current job opportunities. Many of the current in demand specialty fields do not require a degree.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:50 pm

Lon;1361673 wrote: I was referring to the currently IN DEMAND specialty fields like-----damn near anything in the medical line, nursing, xray techs, lab workers ---------lot's of current job opportunities. Many of the current in demand specialty fields do not require a degree.Staff is being reduced where my daughter is a nurse and new people being added apparently are qualified because they're willing to accept lower pay. She's looking for a change and is having difficulty finding takers, as is a coworker of hers.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:46 pm

Must be a regional thing. My daughter is a RN and has worked ER, Surgery, Ward and presently found her niche in Home Hospice care where she is making in excess of $100,000 yearly. Here in California there are many job openings in the medical field, particularly nurses. I know it can be difficult but sometimes folks will have to relocate in order to find work.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:55 pm

Lon;1361688 wrote: Must be a regional thing. My daughter is a RN and has worked ER, Surgery, Ward and presently found her niche in Home Hospice care where she is making in excess of $100,000 yearly. Here in California there are many job openings in the medical field, particularly nurses. I know it can be difficult but sometimes folks will have to relocate in order to find work.

It is a bone of contention here that we pay our nurses peanuts and rely on their vocation to keep them in their jobs. An RN in this country can expect to get between £12K and £30K depending on their grade. Given the level of skill and responsibility involved and the hours and conditions they have to endure it is a national scandal.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:58 pm

Not third world ...The powers that be are making us Americanised....We;ve lost so much because our system is being eaten away by american norms .....it's called a slave labour market and Americans are used to it . We're not. All of the sudden we have to have funeral insurance and medical insurance and loss of wages insurance .....all these insurances where the government used to take care of all of that because we payed taxes . We still pay taxes (australia is one of the highest taxed countrys in the world) but now we have to pay on top of that to look after ourselves? what? it's funny how all our politicians in power had free education and yet they are the ones telling everyone they have to pay. I've just forked out just under a grand to send my kids to a public/state so called free education school. And that's not including camps and excursions.

Amazingly the taxation department just worked out that the poorest of the poor were actually paying the most tax in this country ..if you are on welfare you have to pay tax because it's seen as earnings ...but you are allowed to do a certain amount of work before they cut you off benefits. You are taxed on your wages......the poorest lower income recipients were paying double the tax. that's a shocking state of affairs!!!!

relocating to find work should never ever be an option . You become a refugee in your own country.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:41 pm

Bryn Mawr;1361690 wrote: It is a bone of contention here that we pay our nurses peanuts and rely on their vocation to keep them in their jobs. An RN in this country can expect to get between £12K and £30K depending on their grade. Given the level of skill and responsibility involved and the hours and conditions they have to endure it is a national scandal.

My daughters income is higher than what is typically paid to experienced nurses. $65 to 75,000 would be more typical.

Traveling nurses can do very well if they don't mind the travel.