Protests in Egypt and unrest in Middle East
The people are taking to the streets. Left wing revolution in the middle east, power to the people and all that. Be interesting if it spreads to saudi arabia.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Left wing protestors take to the streets
gmc;1352022 wrote: Protests in Egypt and unrest in Middle East
The people are taking to the streets. Left wing revolution in the middle east, power to the people and all that. Be interesting if it spreads to saudi arabia.
I cannot see the Saudis not responding with guns and, given the relative wealth of the people, I'm not sure the will would be there.
The people are taking to the streets. Left wing revolution in the middle east, power to the people and all that. Be interesting if it spreads to saudi arabia.
I cannot see the Saudis not responding with guns and, given the relative wealth of the people, I'm not sure the will would be there.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Bryn Mawr;1352025 wrote: I cannot see the Saudis not responding with guns and, given the relative wealth of the people, I'm not sure the will would be there.
Saudi is the home of islamic fundamentalism, you get extremes where there is no room for political dissent but I can't claim to know enough to suggest what might happen. Pakistan is a bigger problem. I can see them becoming radicalised and not in a good way.
Saudi is the home of islamic fundamentalism, you get extremes where there is no room for political dissent but I can't claim to know enough to suggest what might happen. Pakistan is a bigger problem. I can see them becoming radicalised and not in a good way.
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BaghdadBob
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Left wing protestors take to the streets
Mebbe they tired quickly of looking to Iraq and seeing what the people there have accomplished thus far.
Mebbe they want some of their own govt of the poeple, by the people, and for the people.
See what those damned Americans started. :-1
Mebbe they want some of their own govt of the poeple, by the people, and for the people.
See what those damned Americans started. :-1
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Here's the NYTs slant on it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/world ... &emc=tha22
Mubarak was made by and for America, just like Saddam and a few others. He's one of ours BBob. This isn't going to sit well with DC. If he doesn't go the people may turn to Al-Q and others. It's this sick kind of security we've set up in the area. Mubarak kept Al-Q at bay for pretty much a free hand and support from the US. The people aren't benefiting from this stability.
I doubt it will hit Saudi Arabia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/world ... &emc=tha22
Mubarak was made by and for America, just like Saddam and a few others. He's one of ours BBob. This isn't going to sit well with DC. If he doesn't go the people may turn to Al-Q and others. It's this sick kind of security we've set up in the area. Mubarak kept Al-Q at bay for pretty much a free hand and support from the US. The people aren't benefiting from this stability.
I doubt it will hit Saudi Arabia.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352065 wrote: Mebbe they tired quickly of looking to Iraq and seeing what the people there have accomplished thus far.
Mebbe they want some of their own govt of the poeple, by the people, and for the people.
See what those damned Americans started. :-1
Left alone the Iraqis would probably have got rid of Saddam themselves. Every time the west and in particular the USA "helps" democracy they just make things worse.
Americans didn't start anything they do have ia claim to be the inheritors of the levellers ideas. It's hard to imagine the declaration of independence would have been worded as it was without their influence. Did you come across them in your political studies?
posted by spot
Mubarak was made by and for America, just like Saddam and a few others. He's one of ours BBob. This isn't going to sit well with DC. If he doesn't go the people may turn to Al-Q and others. It's this sick kind of security we've set up in the area. Mubarak kept Al-Q at bay for pretty much a free hand and support from the US. The people aren't benefiting from this stability.
I doubt it will hit Saudi Arabia.
In saudi dissent seems to have taken the form of religious fundamentalism. You never know what is going to happen.
Mebbe they want some of their own govt of the poeple, by the people, and for the people.
See what those damned Americans started. :-1
Left alone the Iraqis would probably have got rid of Saddam themselves. Every time the west and in particular the USA "helps" democracy they just make things worse.
Americans didn't start anything they do have ia claim to be the inheritors of the levellers ideas. It's hard to imagine the declaration of independence would have been worded as it was without their influence. Did you come across them in your political studies?
posted by spot
Mubarak was made by and for America, just like Saddam and a few others. He's one of ours BBob. This isn't going to sit well with DC. If he doesn't go the people may turn to Al-Q and others. It's this sick kind of security we've set up in the area. Mubarak kept Al-Q at bay for pretty much a free hand and support from the US. The people aren't benefiting from this stability.
I doubt it will hit Saudi Arabia.
In saudi dissent seems to have taken the form of religious fundamentalism. You never know what is going to happen.
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BaghdadBob
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Left wing protestors take to the streets
gmc;1352072 wrote:
Americans didn't start anything they do have ia claim to be the inheritors of the levellers ideas. It's hard to imagine the declaration of independence would have been worded as it was without their influence. Did you come across them in your political studies?
Pfffft! Johnny-come-latelies. Let's talk Magna Carta!
Americans didn't start anything they do have ia claim to be the inheritors of the levellers ideas. It's hard to imagine the declaration of independence would have been worded as it was without their influence. Did you come across them in your political studies?
Pfffft! Johnny-come-latelies. Let's talk Magna Carta!
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352106 wrote: Pfffft! Johnny-come-latelies. Let's talk Magna Carta!
That definitely wasn't american.
Yemen as well now
BBC News - Tens of thousands join Yemen rally
This is getting interesting.
That definitely wasn't american.
Yemen as well now
BBC News - Tens of thousands join Yemen rally
This is getting interesting.
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BaghdadBob
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Left wing protestors take to the streets
gmc;1352155 wrote: That definitely wasn't american.
True dat!
But the US Constitution is all ours and you can't have any. So, there!
Btw, GMC, at what point did you feel the need to edit your OP from right to left wing. :wah:
You need to edit it back. Ppl that fight for freedom are inherently to the right of their oppressors.
Unless you think the islamafacists are behind the protests and then you'd be spot on.
True dat!
But the US Constitution is all ours and you can't have any. So, there!
Btw, GMC, at what point did you feel the need to edit your OP from right to left wing. :wah:
You need to edit it back. Ppl that fight for freedom are inherently to the right of their oppressors.
Unless you think the islamafacists are behind the protests and then you'd be spot on.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352183 wrote: True dat!
But the US Constitution is all ours and you can't have any. So, there!
Btw, GMC, at what point did you feel the need to edit your OP from right to left wing. :wah:
You need to edit it back. Ppl that fight for freedom are inherently to the right of their oppressors.
Unless you think the islamafacists are behind the protests and then you'd be spot on.
I thought you studied politics and history or something. In the french revolution the deputies in favour of change, liberty, egalitie etc sat on the LEFT of the chamber those who supported the king, the church and the status quo sat on the RIGHT. Extremes of either end up being oppressive of course but broadly left wing mean more in favour of equality of opportunity etc etc and sharing of a nations's wealth taking it from the wealthy of necassary, the right just want to hang on to what they've got, accumulate as much as possible and prevent anyone who thinks hey that's not fair getting a chnace to have their say. That's why I say left wing because it's from, or seems to be, a ground up demand for justice and fair play.
Neither of the political parties in the states are left wing because neither of them want to redistribute the wealth of the nation and think it OK so many live in abject poverty in a place where so many are fabulously wealthy or that people die for lack of medical care because of poverty, often through circumstances beyond their control - an injustice most in europe simply would not tolerate.
Fascism, to paraphrase mussolini, could properly be called corporate socialism, ownership of all assets by corporations for their benefit and that of an elite rather than ownership bythe people for thier benefit as a whole.
Right and left are two sides of a political circle, at the extremes they meet and become oppressive so communism and fascism meet as totalitarian states but start out on opposite sides. You need a balance between the two. We call it liberal democracy but in the states the word liberal seems to be conflated with communism. George Orwell coined the term newspeak when writing 1984 about a left wing totalitarian state (could equally have been a fascist one). In the Uited States of America you can see an example of it's effect in action most singularly in some of your posts like the one above.
Religious parties are by their nature non egalitarian and intolernt of dissent which is why every religiously inspired revolution ends up with an oppressive regime. That's what happens in the states when the religious right get political power, they will become oppressive in whatever state they hold sway and enforce their belief system.
As you rightly point out, however, I am not american so I can't claim to know what I am talking about. I get annoyed at americans telling me I am oppressed because I can't buy a machine gun of I want so I would be surprised I you did not get pissed off at someone drawing inaccurate concluscions about the states when they haven't even been there. (keep disneyworld I want to see death valley, we have nothing like that)
You have an odd view of the meaning of left and right, it's either peculiarly american or pecukliarly your own. Either way it is wrong.
If the islamofascists (a term I would agree with just as christian right or christian fascist in the states fits the bill) get a grip there will be a period of tolerance, followed by oppression and then people will get fed up and rise against their leaders. Left alone Iran would probably have moved to secularism by now. The literacy rate in Tunisia is higher than that of egypt so maybe they have a better chance. Same in Yemen it seems to be an educated, internet savvy younger generation driving all this. Egypt I'm not quite so sure The difference in coverage between sky, bbc and CNN is striking, CNN mention how many see the demonstarators as trouble makers and then worries about islamic fundamentalism. Sky and bbc get interviews with the opposition party leaders. I don't watch american news much and I'm not sure how typical cnn is.
But the US Constitution is all ours and you can't have any. So, there!
Btw, GMC, at what point did you feel the need to edit your OP from right to left wing. :wah:
You need to edit it back. Ppl that fight for freedom are inherently to the right of their oppressors.
Unless you think the islamafacists are behind the protests and then you'd be spot on.
I thought you studied politics and history or something. In the french revolution the deputies in favour of change, liberty, egalitie etc sat on the LEFT of the chamber those who supported the king, the church and the status quo sat on the RIGHT. Extremes of either end up being oppressive of course but broadly left wing mean more in favour of equality of opportunity etc etc and sharing of a nations's wealth taking it from the wealthy of necassary, the right just want to hang on to what they've got, accumulate as much as possible and prevent anyone who thinks hey that's not fair getting a chnace to have their say. That's why I say left wing because it's from, or seems to be, a ground up demand for justice and fair play.
Neither of the political parties in the states are left wing because neither of them want to redistribute the wealth of the nation and think it OK so many live in abject poverty in a place where so many are fabulously wealthy or that people die for lack of medical care because of poverty, often through circumstances beyond their control - an injustice most in europe simply would not tolerate.
Fascism, to paraphrase mussolini, could properly be called corporate socialism, ownership of all assets by corporations for their benefit and that of an elite rather than ownership bythe people for thier benefit as a whole.
Right and left are two sides of a political circle, at the extremes they meet and become oppressive so communism and fascism meet as totalitarian states but start out on opposite sides. You need a balance between the two. We call it liberal democracy but in the states the word liberal seems to be conflated with communism. George Orwell coined the term newspeak when writing 1984 about a left wing totalitarian state (could equally have been a fascist one). In the Uited States of America you can see an example of it's effect in action most singularly in some of your posts like the one above.
Religious parties are by their nature non egalitarian and intolernt of dissent which is why every religiously inspired revolution ends up with an oppressive regime. That's what happens in the states when the religious right get political power, they will become oppressive in whatever state they hold sway and enforce their belief system.
As you rightly point out, however, I am not american so I can't claim to know what I am talking about. I get annoyed at americans telling me I am oppressed because I can't buy a machine gun of I want so I would be surprised I you did not get pissed off at someone drawing inaccurate concluscions about the states when they haven't even been there. (keep disneyworld I want to see death valley, we have nothing like that)
You have an odd view of the meaning of left and right, it's either peculiarly american or pecukliarly your own. Either way it is wrong.
If the islamofascists (a term I would agree with just as christian right or christian fascist in the states fits the bill) get a grip there will be a period of tolerance, followed by oppression and then people will get fed up and rise against their leaders. Left alone Iran would probably have moved to secularism by now. The literacy rate in Tunisia is higher than that of egypt so maybe they have a better chance. Same in Yemen it seems to be an educated, internet savvy younger generation driving all this. Egypt I'm not quite so sure The difference in coverage between sky, bbc and CNN is striking, CNN mention how many see the demonstarators as trouble makers and then worries about islamic fundamentalism. Sky and bbc get interviews with the opposition party leaders. I don't watch american news much and I'm not sure how typical cnn is.
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Neither of the political parties in the states are left wing because neither of them want to redistribute the wealth of the nation and think it OK so many live in abject poverty in a place where so many are fabulously wealthy or that people die for lack of medical care because of poverty, often through circumstances beyond their control - an injustice most in europe simply would not tolerate.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
OH
MY
GOD
:yh_rotfl
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
OH
MY
GOD
:yh_rotfl
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
gmc;1352236 wrote: I thought you studied politics and history or something. In the french revolution the deputies in favour of change, liberty, egalitie etc sat on the LEFT of the chamber those who supported the king, the church and the status quo sat on the RIGHT. Extremes of either end up being oppressive of course but broadly left wing mean more in favour of equality of opportunity etc etc and sharing of a nations's wealth taking it from the wealthy of necassary, the right just want to hang on to what they've got, accumulate as much as possible and prevent anyone who thinks hey that's not fair getting a chnace to have their say. That's why I say left wing because it's from, or seems to be, a ground up demand for justice and fair play.
Neither of the political parties in the states are left wing because neither of them want to redistribute the wealth of the nation and think it OK so many live in abject poverty in a place where so many are fabulously wealthy or that people die for lack of medical care because of poverty, often through circumstances beyond their control - an injustice most in europe simply would not tolerate.
Fascism, to paraphrase mussolini, could properly be called corporate socialism, ownership of all assets by corporations for their benefit and that of an elite rather than ownership bythe people for thier benefit as a whole.
Right and left are two sides of a political circle, at the extremes they meet and become oppressive so communism and fascism meet as totalitarian states but start out on opposite sides. You need a balance between the two. We call it liberal democracy but in the states the word liberal seems to be conflated with communism. George Orwell coined the term newspeak when writing 1984 about a left wing totalitarian state (could equally have been a fascist one). In the Uited States of America you can see an example of it's effect in action most singularly in some of your posts like the one above.
Religious parties are by their nature non egalitarian and intolernt of dissent which is why every religiously inspired revolution ends up with an oppressive regime. That's what happens in the states when the religious right get political power, they will become oppressive in whatever state they hold sway and enforce their belief system.
As you rightly point out, however, I am not american so I can't claim to know what I am talking about. I get annoyed at americans telling me I am oppressed because I can't buy a machine gun of I want so I would be surprised I you did not get pissed off at someone drawing inaccurate concluscions about the states when they haven't even been there. (keep disneyworld I want to see death valley, we have nothing like that)
You have an odd view of the meaning of left and right, it's either peculiarly american or pecukliarly your own. Either way it is wrong.
If the islamofascists (a term I would agree with just as christian right or christian fascist in the states fits the bill) get a grip there will be a period of tolerance, followed by oppression and then people will get fed up and rise against their leaders. Left alone Iran would probably have moved to secularism by now. The literacy rate in Tunisia is higher than that of egypt so maybe they have a better chance. Same in Yemen it seems to be an educated, internet savvy younger generation driving all this. Egypt I'm not quite so sure The difference in coverage between sky, bbc and CNN is striking, CNN mention how many see the demonstarators as trouble makers and then worries about islamic fundamentalism. Sky and bbc get interviews with the opposition party leaders. I don't watch american news much and I'm not sure how typical cnn is.
Memorialized.
Neither of the political parties in the states are left wing because neither of them want to redistribute the wealth of the nation and think it OK so many live in abject poverty in a place where so many are fabulously wealthy or that people die for lack of medical care because of poverty, often through circumstances beyond their control - an injustice most in europe simply would not tolerate.
Fascism, to paraphrase mussolini, could properly be called corporate socialism, ownership of all assets by corporations for their benefit and that of an elite rather than ownership bythe people for thier benefit as a whole.
Right and left are two sides of a political circle, at the extremes they meet and become oppressive so communism and fascism meet as totalitarian states but start out on opposite sides. You need a balance between the two. We call it liberal democracy but in the states the word liberal seems to be conflated with communism. George Orwell coined the term newspeak when writing 1984 about a left wing totalitarian state (could equally have been a fascist one). In the Uited States of America you can see an example of it's effect in action most singularly in some of your posts like the one above.
Religious parties are by their nature non egalitarian and intolernt of dissent which is why every religiously inspired revolution ends up with an oppressive regime. That's what happens in the states when the religious right get political power, they will become oppressive in whatever state they hold sway and enforce their belief system.
As you rightly point out, however, I am not american so I can't claim to know what I am talking about. I get annoyed at americans telling me I am oppressed because I can't buy a machine gun of I want so I would be surprised I you did not get pissed off at someone drawing inaccurate concluscions about the states when they haven't even been there. (keep disneyworld I want to see death valley, we have nothing like that)
You have an odd view of the meaning of left and right, it's either peculiarly american or pecukliarly your own. Either way it is wrong.
If the islamofascists (a term I would agree with just as christian right or christian fascist in the states fits the bill) get a grip there will be a period of tolerance, followed by oppression and then people will get fed up and rise against their leaders. Left alone Iran would probably have moved to secularism by now. The literacy rate in Tunisia is higher than that of egypt so maybe they have a better chance. Same in Yemen it seems to be an educated, internet savvy younger generation driving all this. Egypt I'm not quite so sure The difference in coverage between sky, bbc and CNN is striking, CNN mention how many see the demonstarators as trouble makers and then worries about islamic fundamentalism. Sky and bbc get interviews with the opposition party leaders. I don't watch american news much and I'm not sure how typical cnn is.
Memorialized.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Fascism, to paraphrase mussolini, could properly be called corporate socialism, ownership of all assets by corporations for their benefit and that of an elite rather than ownership bythe people for thier benefit as a whole.
That is America, to a tee.
That is America, to a tee.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352238 wrote: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
OH
MY
GOD
:yh_rotfl
Glad you are amused. I notice you don't disagree with the basic point. Face it baghdad bob, you wouldn't know a socialist if one walked up and belted you one with a copy of das kapital. Come to that you wouldn't know a capitalist either, you probably didn't read wealth of nations because of it's socialist content.
I think america needs to be careful of this one. If they are seen to support mubarek because of fears about the muslim brotherhood and he clamps down hard it will push egypt in to the arms of the extremists. Sooner or later mubarek is out. The gas canisters being used are apparently marked made in the USA, not a good image.
Gas Canisters Used On Egyptian Protesters Clearly Marked 'Made In The USA' (WHY! Cui Bono?) Video
OH
MY
GOD
:yh_rotfl
Glad you are amused. I notice you don't disagree with the basic point. Face it baghdad bob, you wouldn't know a socialist if one walked up and belted you one with a copy of das kapital. Come to that you wouldn't know a capitalist either, you probably didn't read wealth of nations because of it's socialist content.
I think america needs to be careful of this one. If they are seen to support mubarek because of fears about the muslim brotherhood and he clamps down hard it will push egypt in to the arms of the extremists. Sooner or later mubarek is out. The gas canisters being used are apparently marked made in the USA, not a good image.
Gas Canisters Used On Egyptian Protesters Clearly Marked 'Made In The USA' (WHY! Cui Bono?) Video
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352183 wrote: True dat!
But the US Constitution is all ours and you can't have any. So, there!
Btw, GMC, at what point did you feel the need to edit your OP from right to left wing. :wah:
You need to edit it back. Ppl that fight for freedom are inherently to the right of their oppressors.
Unless you think the islamafacists are behind the protests and then you'd be spot on.
So, according to you, the Greek resistance and the Maquis of Southwestern France who both fought for their [country's] freedom against the Germans during WWII were to the right of the Fascists?
But the US Constitution is all ours and you can't have any. So, there!
Btw, GMC, at what point did you feel the need to edit your OP from right to left wing. :wah:
You need to edit it back. Ppl that fight for freedom are inherently to the right of their oppressors.
Unless you think the islamafacists are behind the protests and then you'd be spot on.
So, according to you, the Greek resistance and the Maquis of Southwestern France who both fought for their [country's] freedom against the Germans during WWII were to the right of the Fascists?
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Not confirmed but I just heard on the Dave Ross show (Kiro 710) a report that in just the last few hours the Egyptian Army is on the streets of most large cities in APCs and tanks. High up Egyptian officials have been reported at the Pentagon in DC. The situation in Egypt is very tense to say the least. Small skirmishes are ongoing.
Mubarak has sold himself as a major US ally in the ME, I doubt America will stand for letting democracy and freedom of choice take the upper hand there.
Can you say Tienanmen Square in Egyptian? If it does happen, I'm oh so sure American politicians will make a big show in the human rights arena while they'll be flying planeloads of mercs and supplies to the country.
Mubarak has sold himself as a major US ally in the ME, I doubt America will stand for letting democracy and freedom of choice take the upper hand there.
Can you say Tienanmen Square in Egyptian? If it does happen, I'm oh so sure American politicians will make a big show in the human rights arena while they'll be flying planeloads of mercs and supplies to the country.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Have a listen. Dave Ross is pretty accurate in his assessments.
http://www.mynorthwest.com/resources/au ... 0243_2.mp3
http://www.mynorthwest.com/resources/au ... 0243_2.mp3
Left wing protestors take to the streets
The irony is if egypt ends up attacking israel after an Islamic takeover both will be using american tanks and planes.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
They're tearing Cairo up bigtime. People are not near as hostile towards the army as the police from what I gather. I hope the army take care of Mubarak, even if they have to shoot his arse.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Apparently the military is "having a chat" with Mubarak on some level. He may be asked to leave the country here soon. Nothing definite and there's a lot of speculation. I also heard the rich are leaving the country in droves and the security police and regular police have left the scene.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
The muslim brotherhood seem to be the only opposition grouping with any kind of mass following it seems likely there will be some compromise and then a lurch to fundamentalism if there is not a large enough section of the populace that want a secular state. Hopefully this time other nations will not interfere and let things take their course.
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
gmc;1352364 wrote: The muslim brotherhood seem to be the only opposition grouping with any kind of mass following it seems likely there will be some compromise and then a lurch to fundamentalism if there is not a large enough section of the populace that want a secular state. Hopefully this time other nations will not interfere and let things take their course.
Noticeably, this appears to be a right-wing secular movement away from socialism toward freedom...thus far. There seems to be no anti-west, anti-Israel sentiment, pro-fundementalist Islam in the uprising...thus far. You're right on that the Muslim Brotherhood could end up on top after the formation of a new govt IF the west doesn't openly encourage the freedom movement. The west (obummer) failed to publcily back the pro-western uprising in Iran and it failed.
Noticeably, this appears to be a right-wing secular movement away from socialism toward freedom...thus far. There seems to be no anti-west, anti-Israel sentiment, pro-fundementalist Islam in the uprising...thus far. You're right on that the Muslim Brotherhood could end up on top after the formation of a new govt IF the west doesn't openly encourage the freedom movement. The west (obummer) failed to publcily back the pro-western uprising in Iran and it failed.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352387 wrote: Noticeably, this appears to be a right-wing secular movement away from socialism toward freedom...thus far. There seems to be no anti-west, anti-Israel sentiment, pro-fundementalist Islam in the uprising...thus far. You're right on that the Muslim Brotherhood could end up on top after the formation of a new govt IF the west doesn't openly encourage the freedom movement. The west (obummer) failed to publcily back the pro-western uprising in Iran and it failed.
The last time the states backed a pro western government in Iran they ended up putting the shah in power over a democratic government, when they backed him against a movement for freedom they ended up with the ayatollah. If they back an opposition they think will favour the west all it does is strengthen the hands of the fundamentalists. It's not up to the states to decide who rules in Iran, their intervention so far has been a disaster. Left alone the iranians will eventually sort themselves out. The more educated a population the less likely it is to be ruled by fundamentalists. Iran didn't attack it's neighbours it was attacked at the instigation of america and saudi arabia.
If they openly back a pro-western government in eqypt against one the people actually want they will end up with similar in Egypt. When will you be able to understand that people resent outsiders trying to run their country? The best thing the west and the states in particular can do is keep out of it and let events take their course. You do not have the right to dictate what happens. The notion that fundamentalists if they take over will immediately attack israel is not one that stands up to much thought. Besides who gave them the wherewithal to do it? if you hadn't sold them arms you would not need to worry about it.
You should worry about what happens next in saudi arabia, if their oil gets cut off you are up **** creek
Was watching Tony Blair being interviewed on the events taking place. If anyone has less credibility as an expert on the middle east I can't think of one. He really does seem to think it's OK to go around overthrowing regimes.
The last time the states backed a pro western government in Iran they ended up putting the shah in power over a democratic government, when they backed him against a movement for freedom they ended up with the ayatollah. If they back an opposition they think will favour the west all it does is strengthen the hands of the fundamentalists. It's not up to the states to decide who rules in Iran, their intervention so far has been a disaster. Left alone the iranians will eventually sort themselves out. The more educated a population the less likely it is to be ruled by fundamentalists. Iran didn't attack it's neighbours it was attacked at the instigation of america and saudi arabia.
If they openly back a pro-western government in eqypt against one the people actually want they will end up with similar in Egypt. When will you be able to understand that people resent outsiders trying to run their country? The best thing the west and the states in particular can do is keep out of it and let events take their course. You do not have the right to dictate what happens. The notion that fundamentalists if they take over will immediately attack israel is not one that stands up to much thought. Besides who gave them the wherewithal to do it? if you hadn't sold them arms you would not need to worry about it.
You should worry about what happens next in saudi arabia, if their oil gets cut off you are up **** creek
Was watching Tony Blair being interviewed on the events taking place. If anyone has less credibility as an expert on the middle east I can't think of one. He really does seem to think it's OK to go around overthrowing regimes.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
My 11 year old finally asked me what the heck is going on over in Egypt. I told her that to me it seems like a revolution and told her to think about it as if it were us from the history books at school. Folks reach a point where change is worth the price of death, if it means a possibly better life for your family and friends.
How many Americans do you suppose it would take, marching on washington, to wake up our politicians?
How many Americans do you suppose it would take, marching on washington, to wake up our politicians?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Right and left are two sides of a political circle, at the extremes they meet and become oppressive so communism and fascism meet as totalitarian states but start out on opposite sides.
Wrong.
Do you just make stuff up as you go along?
Wrong.
Do you just make stuff up as you go along?
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
You need a balance between the two. We call it liberal democracy but in the states the word liberal seems to be conflated with communism.
A classic liberal here would be called a libertarian. Today's liberal is shorthand for a leftist (statist) better described as a progressive.
A classic liberal here would be called a libertarian. Today's liberal is shorthand for a leftist (statist) better described as a progressive.
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Religious parties are by their nature non egalitarian and intolernt of dissent which is why every religiously inspired revolution ends up with an oppressive regime. That's what happens in the states when the religious right get political power, they will become oppressive in whatever state they hold sway and enforce their belief system.
This deserves another :yh_rotfl
Don't comment on things you have less than zero knowledge of.
This deserves another :yh_rotfl
Don't comment on things you have less than zero knowledge of.
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
If the islamofascists (a term I would agree with just as christian right or christian fascist in the states fits the bill)
Islam is more about Sharia law than it is a religion. Modern Christians aren't known for stoning wimmin to death for showing their ankles (or, in the case of Hillary Clinton, her cankles).
I don't watch american news much and I'm not sure how typical cnn is.
Don't apoligize. Nobody watches it here either.
Islam is more about Sharia law than it is a religion. Modern Christians aren't known for stoning wimmin to death for showing their ankles (or, in the case of Hillary Clinton, her cankles).
I don't watch american news much and I'm not sure how typical cnn is.
Don't apoligize. Nobody watches it here either.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352430 wrote: Wrong.
Do you just make stuff up as you go along?
No unlike your good self. It's factually correct and myself and others have tried to point out where your notion of what left and right mean is somewhat lacking to no avail so I'm not going to indulge you any further. Hitler as a left wing socialist revolutionary is still one of the biggest laughs I've had on this forum.
posted by baghdad bob
A classic liberal here would be called a libertarian. Today's liberal is shorthand for a leftist (statist) better described as a progressive.
A classic liberal here is still a classic liberal the US has kind of gone off in to it's own little world when it comes to politics. A living example it seems of newspeak in action.
posted by baghdad bob
Don't comment on things have less than zero knowledge of.
Why would you assume I have zero knowledge of it?
Adolf Hitler Mein kampf
What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.
Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant
Hitler was a catholic in case you are wondering, that's the pope supported him
I should have added the religious right don't get irony either
YouTube - Religious nuts in Texas seek to ban book about book banning!
YouTube - Catholic School Bans Harry Potter Books
Maddow - Atheists Banned From Holding Office in 7 US States • videosift.com
7 US States' Constitutions apparently forbid the election and installation of atheists into office.
Islam is more about Sharia law than it is a religion. Modern Christians aren't known for stoning wimmin to death for showing their ankles (or, in the case of Hillary Clinton, her cankles).
They are known for beating the **** our of homosexuals or anyone from a different sect though.
YouTube - Catholic League President Criticizes Obama On Abortion
You really think these clowns will let people make up their own minds about things like abortion?
Some of the things your protestant christian fundamentalists get up to are incredible, well to an outsider they are. Ours are just as bad actually but we laugh at them more.
But you are right my knowledge of the states is based on the more extreme things you get on you tube and the like.
Do you just make stuff up as you go along?
No unlike your good self. It's factually correct and myself and others have tried to point out where your notion of what left and right mean is somewhat lacking to no avail so I'm not going to indulge you any further. Hitler as a left wing socialist revolutionary is still one of the biggest laughs I've had on this forum.
posted by baghdad bob
A classic liberal here would be called a libertarian. Today's liberal is shorthand for a leftist (statist) better described as a progressive.
A classic liberal here is still a classic liberal the US has kind of gone off in to it's own little world when it comes to politics. A living example it seems of newspeak in action.
posted by baghdad bob
Don't comment on things have less than zero knowledge of.
Why would you assume I have zero knowledge of it?
Adolf Hitler Mein kampf
What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.
Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant
Hitler was a catholic in case you are wondering, that's the pope supported him
I should have added the religious right don't get irony either
YouTube - Religious nuts in Texas seek to ban book about book banning!
YouTube - Catholic School Bans Harry Potter Books
Maddow - Atheists Banned From Holding Office in 7 US States • videosift.com
7 US States' Constitutions apparently forbid the election and installation of atheists into office.
Islam is more about Sharia law than it is a religion. Modern Christians aren't known for stoning wimmin to death for showing their ankles (or, in the case of Hillary Clinton, her cankles).
They are known for beating the **** our of homosexuals or anyone from a different sect though.
YouTube - Catholic League President Criticizes Obama On Abortion
You really think these clowns will let people make up their own minds about things like abortion?
Some of the things your protestant christian fundamentalists get up to are incredible, well to an outsider they are. Ours are just as bad actually but we laugh at them more.
But you are right my knowledge of the states is based on the more extreme things you get on you tube and the like.
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BaghdadBob
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- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
No unlike your good self. It's factually correct and myself and others have tried to point out where your notion of what left and right mean is somewhat lacking to no avail so I'm not going to indulge you any further. Hitler as a left wing socialist revolutionary is still one of the biggest laughs I've had on this forum.
:wah:
Attached files
:wah:
Attached files
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Why would you assume I have zero knowledge of it?
Oh, just because. :-3
Oh, just because. :-3
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Hey, GMC! Hey, buddy!
Since you're soooooo much more knowledgable than me on the body politic, would you please diagram the spectrum of progression of govt for us.
Mebbe some of yer commie buddies could help you out.
Just a lineal thingy (dual axis not necessary as it's really not useful) starting with the far right all the way to the far left. Please include all of the major political movements. We can pretend it's a circle with the rite & left ends joining if you wish.
I want to learn from you because you have such a strong grasp on reality.
Thanx
Since you're soooooo much more knowledgable than me on the body politic, would you please diagram the spectrum of progression of govt for us.
Mebbe some of yer commie buddies could help you out.
Just a lineal thingy (dual axis not necessary as it's really not useful) starting with the far right all the way to the far left. Please include all of the major political movements. We can pretend it's a circle with the rite & left ends joining if you wish.
I want to learn from you because you have such a strong grasp on reality.
Thanx
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352492 wrote: Hey, GMC! Hey, buddy!
Since you're soooooo much more knowledgable than me on the body politic, would you please diagram the spectrum of progression of govt for us.This appears to be habitual.
Since you're soooooo much more knowledgable than me on the body politic, would you please diagram the spectrum of progression of govt for us.This appears to be habitual.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352492 wrote: Hey, GMC! Hey, buddy!
Since you're soooooo much more knowledgable than me on the body politic, would you please diagram the spectrum of progression of govt for us.
Mebbe some of yer commie buddies could help you out.
Just a lineal thingy (dual axis not necessary as it's really not useful) starting with the far right all the way to the far left. Please include all of the major political movements. We can pretend it's a circle with the rite & left ends joining if you wish.
I want to learn from you because you have such a strong grasp on reality.
Thanx
I like discussing politics and history if I wanted to teach I would get a job teaching. It's enjoyable talking to you because we disagree over so much - and I'm not trying to be facetious. Do your own reading. I notice some of your right wing commentators talk about fascism and communism as being the same so maybe that's where you get your ideas from. If you don't know the difference between left and right it's your problem not mine. Or maybe it's a european classification that americans just can't get their heads round. It's not a linear logical progression anyway and we have a different cultural background so even if I were inclined to do so it would be a bit pointless and there are, I suspect, very few points of common reference. You have been in a cultural backwater for some time.:sneaky: Roosevelt and eisenhower knew the difference and both spookily gave the same warning about too much power in the hands of big companies and interest groups. I'd post links if you don't know what I am talking about - but I know you've studied american history so I assume you know. I haven't, it's a passing interest only. We see roosevelts new deal as socialist but I notice some commentators called them fascist. Anyway The nuances of your political system leave me puzzled as does some of the claptrap you come out with. It's like you've been on a different planet sometimes - Which is why I find this forum interesting. I'm really not interested in proving who is right and who is wrong or seeing who can metaphorically **** highest up the wall. If things were as simple as who is right and who is wrong there would be no political debate. Have and have nots and who says yopu have a right to rule that's what it's always been about. Enjoy the difference of opinion and relax. The fact you probably think I'm a plonker really doesn't worry me. I'm not a communist though, even here they are like hen's teeth.
I come from an industrialised working class big city background where the politics of the left were the norm. Don't know your background but I bet you didn't grow up knowing the words to the red flag and the sash and probably haven't a clue what I refer to. I remember as a kid seeing Swiss Family Robinson and wondering why they got the words wrong when they sang about christmas trees
Only in america would you get a popular movement calling for no social reform. You couldn't make it up could you?
Since you're soooooo much more knowledgable than me on the body politic, would you please diagram the spectrum of progression of govt for us.
Mebbe some of yer commie buddies could help you out.
Just a lineal thingy (dual axis not necessary as it's really not useful) starting with the far right all the way to the far left. Please include all of the major political movements. We can pretend it's a circle with the rite & left ends joining if you wish.
I want to learn from you because you have such a strong grasp on reality.
Thanx
I like discussing politics and history if I wanted to teach I would get a job teaching. It's enjoyable talking to you because we disagree over so much - and I'm not trying to be facetious. Do your own reading. I notice some of your right wing commentators talk about fascism and communism as being the same so maybe that's where you get your ideas from. If you don't know the difference between left and right it's your problem not mine. Or maybe it's a european classification that americans just can't get their heads round. It's not a linear logical progression anyway and we have a different cultural background so even if I were inclined to do so it would be a bit pointless and there are, I suspect, very few points of common reference. You have been in a cultural backwater for some time.:sneaky: Roosevelt and eisenhower knew the difference and both spookily gave the same warning about too much power in the hands of big companies and interest groups. I'd post links if you don't know what I am talking about - but I know you've studied american history so I assume you know. I haven't, it's a passing interest only. We see roosevelts new deal as socialist but I notice some commentators called them fascist. Anyway The nuances of your political system leave me puzzled as does some of the claptrap you come out with. It's like you've been on a different planet sometimes - Which is why I find this forum interesting. I'm really not interested in proving who is right and who is wrong or seeing who can metaphorically **** highest up the wall. If things were as simple as who is right and who is wrong there would be no political debate. Have and have nots and who says yopu have a right to rule that's what it's always been about. Enjoy the difference of opinion and relax. The fact you probably think I'm a plonker really doesn't worry me. I'm not a communist though, even here they are like hen's teeth.
I come from an industrialised working class big city background where the politics of the left were the norm. Don't know your background but I bet you didn't grow up knowing the words to the red flag and the sash and probably haven't a clue what I refer to. I remember as a kid seeing Swiss Family Robinson and wondering why they got the words wrong when they sang about christmas trees
Only in america would you get a popular movement calling for no social reform. You couldn't make it up could you?
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
:yh_rotfl
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Ahso!;1352493 wrote: This appears to be habitual.
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease! Please tell me.
I want to learn from the best and brightest.
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease! Please tell me.
I want to learn from the best and brightest.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352506 wrote: Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease! Please tell me.
I want to learn from the best and brightest.Getting better. You learn quickly, now all that's needed is proper content.
I want to learn from the best and brightest.Getting better. You learn quickly, now all that's needed is proper content.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
-
BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
It's not a linear logical progression anyway and we have a different cultural background so even if I were inclined to do so it would be a bit pointless and there are, I suspect, very few points of common reference.
Do a Nolan chart or two axis instead tho I find them obtuse and a linear progression serves just as well.
Pleeeeeeeease??????????? What say you?
Do a Nolan chart or two axis instead tho I find them obtuse and a linear progression serves just as well.
Pleeeeeeeease??????????? What say you?
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Ahso!;1352507 wrote: Getting better. You learn quickly, now all that's needed is proper content.
Come on, dood. Teach me how fascism is right wing ideology. You've got anonymous wikipedia postings and all that kewl stuff on the interwebs and all I got are stupid text books and stuff like that written by poli-sci professors.
Help a brother out?
Come on, dood. Teach me how fascism is right wing ideology. You've got anonymous wikipedia postings and all that kewl stuff on the interwebs and all I got are stupid text books and stuff like that written by poli-sci professors.
Help a brother out?
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Do your own reading.
Oh, I have. I have...
Perhaps you should take your own advise.
Only in america would you get a popular movement calling for no social reform. You couldn't make it up could you?
The societal leeches want to "spread the wealth" and the producers want freedom. Go figure. :yh_think
Oh, I have. I have...
Perhaps you should take your own advise.
Only in america would you get a popular movement calling for no social reform. You couldn't make it up could you?
The societal leeches want to "spread the wealth" and the producers want freedom. Go figure. :yh_think
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352509 wrote: Do a Nolan chart or two axis instead tho I find them obtuse and a linear progression serves just as well.
Pleeeeeeeease??????????? What say you?
I had to look that up. I'm afraid Nolan is an obscure american academic I'd never heard of and the libertarian party a peculiarly american creation. Looks like he designed the chart because he couldn't understand the difference between left and right. There really is cultural gap when it comes to this kind of thing. If I say left of centre politics most people in the UK know what I mean, social democrat is a respectable point of view and we feel nostalgic about old time socialism. There is a UK libertarian party founded in 2008 and they have coffee mornings I believe. Classic liberalism still means pretty much what it always has done anarchism is a utopian philosophy that no one takes very seriously - kind of punk hippies. Libertarianism is another 19th century philosophy rather than a political party. It's advocated sometimes but the typical response to the phrase "I am a libertarian" would be what the ---- is that, are you some kind of pervert. The world view you have is actually peculiarly american, just as mine is peculiarly british, better it's scottish, and there's very little point trying to score intellectual points over it. It's fun arguing over which definition of left or right is correct but I would point out it seems to be only confusing to you, even some of your fellow americans seem puzzled by what you say. You never really had the major fights between left and right political movements like we did in europe - or rather you did but it was peculiarly american. The right won in america imo but have you fooled in to thinking everything is all right in a perfect world and you are all equal so what are you complaining about? Hence you all think unions are a bad thing, the rich are nice people and let their wealth trickle down, you don't need universal healthcare because you have no right to expect government try and improve things and all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. You're welcome to it.
What's happening in egypt is a grass roots demand for political freedom. Your establishment is having to come to terms with the fact that the resulting government may not be friendly to a country that advocates freedom and democracy but only so long as it supports American interests. You're going to just have to wait and see what happens. So will the israelis and hopefully they will have the sense not to attack. because it's from the bottom up, from the people it's left wing but sadly religion still holds sway over many so a secular state might not win out. Maybe it will go like the turkish one where the army were secularist and helped create a secular state. Or maybe those abrams tanks and F16's will be heading for israel.
Loved the notion hitler was a left wing revolutionary. Poor man will be birling in his grave at the thought.
Pleeeeeeeease??????????? What say you?
I had to look that up. I'm afraid Nolan is an obscure american academic I'd never heard of and the libertarian party a peculiarly american creation. Looks like he designed the chart because he couldn't understand the difference between left and right. There really is cultural gap when it comes to this kind of thing. If I say left of centre politics most people in the UK know what I mean, social democrat is a respectable point of view and we feel nostalgic about old time socialism. There is a UK libertarian party founded in 2008 and they have coffee mornings I believe. Classic liberalism still means pretty much what it always has done anarchism is a utopian philosophy that no one takes very seriously - kind of punk hippies. Libertarianism is another 19th century philosophy rather than a political party. It's advocated sometimes but the typical response to the phrase "I am a libertarian" would be what the ---- is that, are you some kind of pervert. The world view you have is actually peculiarly american, just as mine is peculiarly british, better it's scottish, and there's very little point trying to score intellectual points over it. It's fun arguing over which definition of left or right is correct but I would point out it seems to be only confusing to you, even some of your fellow americans seem puzzled by what you say. You never really had the major fights between left and right political movements like we did in europe - or rather you did but it was peculiarly american. The right won in america imo but have you fooled in to thinking everything is all right in a perfect world and you are all equal so what are you complaining about? Hence you all think unions are a bad thing, the rich are nice people and let their wealth trickle down, you don't need universal healthcare because you have no right to expect government try and improve things and all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. You're welcome to it.
What's happening in egypt is a grass roots demand for political freedom. Your establishment is having to come to terms with the fact that the resulting government may not be friendly to a country that advocates freedom and democracy but only so long as it supports American interests. You're going to just have to wait and see what happens. So will the israelis and hopefully they will have the sense not to attack. because it's from the bottom up, from the people it's left wing but sadly religion still holds sway over many so a secular state might not win out. Maybe it will go like the turkish one where the army were secularist and helped create a secular state. Or maybe those abrams tanks and F16's will be heading for israel.
Loved the notion hitler was a left wing revolutionary. Poor man will be birling in his grave at the thought.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
mubarak says he won't run again
duh
duh
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
gmc;1352531 wrote: It's fun arguing over which definition of left or right is correct but I would point out it seems to be only confusing to you, even some of your fellow americans seem puzzled by what you say.
Others that are confused (according to you):
The superb British doc series World at War. Season 1 Episode 1 A New Germany throughly describes the the fascists as left wing. WOW! What idiots, eh?
The college text: Analyzing Politics. Morons!
To say nothing for the college instructor dolts that came up with these graphs:
Attached files
Others that are confused (according to you):
The superb British doc series World at War. Season 1 Episode 1 A New Germany throughly describes the the fascists as left wing. WOW! What idiots, eh?
The college text: Analyzing Politics. Morons!
To say nothing for the college instructor dolts that came up with these graphs:
Attached files
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352556 wrote: Others that are confused (according to you):
The superb British doc series World at War. Season 1 Episode 1 A New Germany throughly describes the the fascists as left wing. WOW! What idiots, eh?
The college text: Analyzing Politics. Morons!
To say nothing for the college instructor dolts that came up with these graphs:
I see your documentary and raise you one paper from the Sorbonne (on the grounds that you don't appear to like "anonymous Wikipedia postings") :-
“Extremism and democratic coalitions. The institutional integration of extreme right parties in the regional parliaments of Germany, Austria and France”
That discusses the political incorporation of the Nazi party and it successors into government.
University of Essex
An example of the tenor of the paper :-
Before the Second World War, the regional coalitional market was totally open to extreme
right parties. The national-socialist parliamentary group of Bavaria was approached already in
1924 by the local conservative minister-president.11 This very low cost of entry on the
regional market favoured the ascension of the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in the different regional
parliaments, with a wide range of participation types, from the first simple membership of a
regional government in Thuringen, to the status of dominating partner in a coalition in
Mecklenburg-Schwerin and Prussia in 1932.12 One may thus raise the question of the
importance of that rule of openness and to what extent it took part in its integration of a right-
wing and fascist national coalition in 1933.
As an interesting sidenote, I came across a site that provides reasonable comparisons of political parties within a country. A couple of nice charts are :-
US State Senatorial Positions
and
UK Parties 2010 General Election
The superb British doc series World at War. Season 1 Episode 1 A New Germany throughly describes the the fascists as left wing. WOW! What idiots, eh?
The college text: Analyzing Politics. Morons!
To say nothing for the college instructor dolts that came up with these graphs:
I see your documentary and raise you one paper from the Sorbonne (on the grounds that you don't appear to like "anonymous Wikipedia postings") :-
“Extremism and democratic coalitions. The institutional integration of extreme right parties in the regional parliaments of Germany, Austria and France”
That discusses the political incorporation of the Nazi party and it successors into government.
University of Essex
An example of the tenor of the paper :-
Before the Second World War, the regional coalitional market was totally open to extreme
right parties. The national-socialist parliamentary group of Bavaria was approached already in
1924 by the local conservative minister-president.11 This very low cost of entry on the
regional market favoured the ascension of the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in the different regional
parliaments, with a wide range of participation types, from the first simple membership of a
regional government in Thuringen, to the status of dominating partner in a coalition in
Mecklenburg-Schwerin and Prussia in 1932.12 One may thus raise the question of the
importance of that rule of openness and to what extent it took part in its integration of a right-
wing and fascist national coalition in 1933.
As an interesting sidenote, I came across a site that provides reasonable comparisons of political parties within a country. A couple of nice charts are :-
US State Senatorial Positions
and
UK Parties 2010 General Election
-
BaghdadBob
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Bryn Mawr;1352595 wrote: I see your documentary and raise you one paper from the Sorbonne (on the grounds that you don't appear to like "anonymous Wikipedia postings") :-
“Extremism and democratic coalitions. The institutional integration of extreme right parties in the regional parliaments of Germany, Austria and France”
That discusses the political incorporation of the Nazi party and it successors into government.
University of Essex
An example of the tenor of the paper :-
As an interesting sidenote, I came across a site that provides reasonable comparisons of political parties within a country. A couple of nice charts are :-
US State Senatorial Positions
and
UK Parties 2010 General Election
This sounds so much like socialism, no?
Policy manifesto written by Adolph Hitler, 1925:
9. All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties.
10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good.
Therefore we demand:
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits whether in assets or material.
13. We demand the nationalization of businesses which have been organized into cartels.
14. We demand that all the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
15. We demand extensive development of provision for old age.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle-class, the immediate communalization of department stores which will be rented cheaply to small businessmen, and that preference shall be given to small businessmen for provision of supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand a land reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to confiscate from the owners without compensation any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
Does this seem like minimal govt, individual rights, personal responsibility, and freedom to you? Sounds like socialism to me.
Adolph Hitler, 1931:
What matters is to emphasize the fundamental idea in my party's economic program clearly -- the idea of authority. I want the authority; I want everyone to keep the property he has acquired for himself according to the priniciple: benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual. But the state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property.
Come to think of it, this eerily reminds me of the way the UK is governed.
“Extremism and democratic coalitions. The institutional integration of extreme right parties in the regional parliaments of Germany, Austria and France”
That discusses the political incorporation of the Nazi party and it successors into government.
University of Essex
An example of the tenor of the paper :-
As an interesting sidenote, I came across a site that provides reasonable comparisons of political parties within a country. A couple of nice charts are :-
US State Senatorial Positions
and
UK Parties 2010 General Election
This sounds so much like socialism, no?
Policy manifesto written by Adolph Hitler, 1925:
9. All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties.
10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good.
Therefore we demand:
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits whether in assets or material.
13. We demand the nationalization of businesses which have been organized into cartels.
14. We demand that all the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
15. We demand extensive development of provision for old age.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle-class, the immediate communalization of department stores which will be rented cheaply to small businessmen, and that preference shall be given to small businessmen for provision of supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand a land reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to confiscate from the owners without compensation any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
Does this seem like minimal govt, individual rights, personal responsibility, and freedom to you? Sounds like socialism to me.
Adolph Hitler, 1931:
What matters is to emphasize the fundamental idea in my party's economic program clearly -- the idea of authority. I want the authority; I want everyone to keep the property he has acquired for himself according to the priniciple: benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual. But the state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property.
Come to think of it, this eerily reminds me of the way the UK is governed.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
I guess it took an abrupt change. There's a fight now.
NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast- msnbc.com
NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast- msnbc.com
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Bryn Mawr;1352595 wrote: As an interesting sidenote, I came across a site that provides reasonable comparisons of political parties within a country. A couple of nice charts are :-
US State Senatorial Positions
Cool site! I took the test (find it on the list to the left)
US State Senatorial Positions
Cool site! I took the test (find it on the list to the left)
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352607 wrote: This sounds so much like socialism, no?
Does this seem like minimal govt, individual rights, personal responsibility, and freedom to you? Sounds like socialism to me.
Come to think of it, this eerily reminds me of the way the UK is governed.
When did you start to believe that what a politician says before election has any relationship to what he thinks or what he does after election - especially where his actions on being elected include murdering all of the opposition and turning the country into a one party state?
BTW - did you even bother to read the link I gave or is it policy not to respond to points made?
Does this seem like minimal govt, individual rights, personal responsibility, and freedom to you? Sounds like socialism to me.
Come to think of it, this eerily reminds me of the way the UK is governed.
When did you start to believe that what a politician says before election has any relationship to what he thinks or what he does after election - especially where his actions on being elected include murdering all of the opposition and turning the country into a one party state?
BTW - did you even bother to read the link I gave or is it policy not to respond to points made?
Left wing protestors take to the streets
Accountable;1352626 wrote: Cool site! I took the test (find it on the list to the left)
Interesting :-
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
ETA The chart will not reproduce but the co-ordinates will do just as well.
Interesting :-
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
ETA The chart will not reproduce but the co-ordinates will do just as well.
Left wing protestors take to the streets
BaghdadBob;1352556 wrote: Others that are confused (according to you):
The superb British doc series World at War. Season 1 Episode 1 A New Germany throughly describes the the fascists as left wing. WOW! What idiots, eh?
The college text: Analyzing Politics. Morons!
To say nothing for the college instructor dolts that came up with these graphs:
You like your graphs don't you. The fascists and nazis started in opposition to revolutionary communism - as I'm sure you are perfectly well aware if you have studied political science as you intimate. Mussolini described fascism as corporate socialism.
–noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
(sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
(initial capital letter) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
Word Origin & History
corporatism
1890, from corporate + -ism. Used over the years in various senses of corporate, in 1920s-30s often with ref. to fascist collectivism.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
The US has gone in to it's own little world that's why you can't understand that europeans having universal healthcare is not the result of socialist oppression but a conscious decision made by the electorate. Most Europeans look at healthcare in the states and wonder why on earth you put up with it - we wouldn't. To have a popular movement calling for no social reform and lower taxes for the rich while your country goes bankrupt fighting foreign wars and bankers get a bail out while workers get laid off is a peculiarly american phenomenon.
The US had it's own battles between left and right, at one point flying a red flag was a criminal offence and probably still is somewhere in the states. You use left and right in an american context the rest of the world, not being american does not. Left and right is the same as the have and have nots and what is fair and what is not. You seem to be brainwashed in to thinking social change is not something you can demand of your government. Your books and films are full of it - how many westerns have as a theme gallant pioneers protecting their land from rapacious cattlemen, pale rider, for instance rider has the evil mining company as the baddie, destroying the landscape and killing anyone that gets in the way. I bet the inhabitants of kentucky and Virginia can relate to that - but anyone advocating social justice and let's not destroy the environment is a left wing tree hugging commie bastard. It's your problem I just wish you would sort it out and stop trying to tell everybody where they have got it wrong. Does it make you feel better or something?
Others on this forum have pointed out where they disagree with you and made their arguments quite frankly I am really not interested in arguing with you over what left and right mean it's not actually essential we agree with each other. I don't have the benefit of having studied political science, hence I can think for myself and really am not impressed by academics producing coloured diagrams. More to the point living in a free country I can call such things a load of bollocks if I want to. Economists do the same kind of thing and look where listening to them has got us. Monetarism is load of bollocks as well.
I will continue to use the terms it in the way it is used in the UK, not least because the American definitions do not make a lot of sense outside the US, to me anyway, - maybe not there either. I wish I had used a different title now but I couldn't resist winding people up. :)This is a grass roots movement in egypt for liberty and freedom against a repressive authoritarian regime. What will happen imo is mubarek will try and intimidate the protesters in to giving up and when they do quietly go after them. The people know that that is why they are still protesting, Hopefully the army will make move to remove him because if they don't what takes over after him is likely to be fairly extreme. Left and right head butting each other on the way to liberal democracy and a free market economy.
The superb British doc series World at War. Season 1 Episode 1 A New Germany throughly describes the the fascists as left wing. WOW! What idiots, eh?
The college text: Analyzing Politics. Morons!
To say nothing for the college instructor dolts that came up with these graphs:
You like your graphs don't you. The fascists and nazis started in opposition to revolutionary communism - as I'm sure you are perfectly well aware if you have studied political science as you intimate. Mussolini described fascism as corporate socialism.
–noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
(sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
(initial capital letter) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
Word Origin & History
corporatism
1890, from corporate + -ism. Used over the years in various senses of corporate, in 1920s-30s often with ref. to fascist collectivism.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
The US has gone in to it's own little world that's why you can't understand that europeans having universal healthcare is not the result of socialist oppression but a conscious decision made by the electorate. Most Europeans look at healthcare in the states and wonder why on earth you put up with it - we wouldn't. To have a popular movement calling for no social reform and lower taxes for the rich while your country goes bankrupt fighting foreign wars and bankers get a bail out while workers get laid off is a peculiarly american phenomenon.
The US had it's own battles between left and right, at one point flying a red flag was a criminal offence and probably still is somewhere in the states. You use left and right in an american context the rest of the world, not being american does not. Left and right is the same as the have and have nots and what is fair and what is not. You seem to be brainwashed in to thinking social change is not something you can demand of your government. Your books and films are full of it - how many westerns have as a theme gallant pioneers protecting their land from rapacious cattlemen, pale rider, for instance rider has the evil mining company as the baddie, destroying the landscape and killing anyone that gets in the way. I bet the inhabitants of kentucky and Virginia can relate to that - but anyone advocating social justice and let's not destroy the environment is a left wing tree hugging commie bastard. It's your problem I just wish you would sort it out and stop trying to tell everybody where they have got it wrong. Does it make you feel better or something?
Others on this forum have pointed out where they disagree with you and made their arguments quite frankly I am really not interested in arguing with you over what left and right mean it's not actually essential we agree with each other. I don't have the benefit of having studied political science, hence I can think for myself and really am not impressed by academics producing coloured diagrams. More to the point living in a free country I can call such things a load of bollocks if I want to. Economists do the same kind of thing and look where listening to them has got us. Monetarism is load of bollocks as well.
I will continue to use the terms it in the way it is used in the UK, not least because the American definitions do not make a lot of sense outside the US, to me anyway, - maybe not there either. I wish I had used a different title now but I couldn't resist winding people up. :)This is a grass roots movement in egypt for liberty and freedom against a repressive authoritarian regime. What will happen imo is mubarek will try and intimidate the protesters in to giving up and when they do quietly go after them. The people know that that is why they are still protesting, Hopefully the army will make move to remove him because if they don't what takes over after him is likely to be fairly extreme. Left and right head butting each other on the way to liberal democracy and a free market economy.