Tunisia's President flees the country seeking asylum

Post by **spot** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:01 pm

President Ben Ali, the corrupt ruler of Tunisia, has finally been ejected from the country. President Ben Ali is a graduate of the U.S. Army Intelligence School, Fort Holabird, Maryland.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:16 pm

More, anyone?

Tunisia's government has collapsed, partially due to food price inflation and unemployment, but also because of WikiLeaks.

One of the U.S. government cables released by WikiLeaks exposed the corruption of Tunisia's President's family, its reach into business in the country, and ability to transcend the rule of law. President Ben Ali's family was called "The Family" throughout the leak. The government attempted to block access to WikiLeaks earlier this month.

This Is The Wikileak That Sparked The Tunisian Crisis

And here's the leaked cable from the US Tunis Embassy. It makes great reading too - for example:

¶3. (S) President Ben Ali's extended family is often cited as

the nexus of Tunisian corruption. Often referred to as a

quasi-mafia, an oblique mention of "the Family" is enough to

indicate which family you mean. Seemingly half of the

Tunisian business community can claim a Ben Ali connection

through marriage, and many of these relations are reported to

have made the most of their lineage. Ben Ali's wife, Leila

Ben Ali, and her extended family -- the Trabelsis -- provoke

the greatest ire from Tunisians. Along with the numerous

allegations of Trabelsi corruption are often barbs about

their lack of education, low social status, and conspicuous

consumption. While some of the complaints about the Trabelsi

clan seem to emanate from a disdain for their nouveau riche

inclinations, Tunisians also argue that the Trabelsis strong

arm tactics and flagrant abuse of the system make them easy

to hate.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:46 am

Ben Ali was slid into the Tunisian presidency by a couple of the most corrupt politicians of the twentieth century, Giulio Andreotti and Bettino Craxi, both of whom had spells as Prime Minister of Italy. Craxi ended up fleeing to Tunisia for sanctuary. Rome has a long historical interest in Carthage, having totally destroyed the place before now. Presumably Ben Ali was their latest means of suppression.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:53 am

The BBC report this morning includes a bare-faced threat on the part of the interim leader: "I salute the fact that groups of young people have got together to defend their neighbourhoods but we can assure them we will reinforce their security". Wow. Cowering indoors is the order of the day, obviously.

BBC News - Tunisia: Ex-President Ben Ali flees to Saudi Arabia

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:04 am

I'd seen the headline. Tunisia isn't a country I'm overly familiar with. However it results, one can only hope they see improvement with the change.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:11 am

koan;1350787 wrote: Tunisia isn't a country I'm overly familiar with.The Canaanites created a series of colonies back around 1000BC, one of which was Carthage on the African coast opposite the toe of Italy. The combined colonies were collectively known as sea-farers or Phoenicians, and traded as far away as Britain. When Rome started empire-building there was a clash. Hannibal and his Elephant were Carthaginian. Rome destroyed the colony. Tunisia is what's left.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:44 pm

"That family drove Porsches while we couldn't afford to eat," said an elderly man.

Tunisia: Gang violence mars celebration of popular uprising | World news | The Observer

We could say that in Canada too.

I've always thought that a leader should be ashamed to live more luxuriously than the average citizen. If the leader lives more comfortably than their constituents it seems they aren't doing a good enough job.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:00 pm

They'll fit well in Saudi Arabia now they've got there.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:05 pm

Idi Amin all over again.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:16 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1350915 wrote: Idi Amin all over again.I'm not sure Idi Amin was bright enough to be an Intelligence Officer, not even for the US Army. His Wiki page quotes a book reporting one British officer's assessment as "Idi Amin is a splendid type and a good [rugby] player but virtually bone from the neck up, and needs things explained in words of one letter". Not that I met the chap, the quote may just stem from the psychological warfare of the time.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:19 pm

Saudi Arabia is a bit of a conduit for controversial characters.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:21 pm

koan;1350917 wrote: Saudi Arabia is a bit of a conduit for controversial characters.

They won't let me visit.

Nor, come to think of it, would they have let you.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:24 pm

spot;1350918 wrote: They won't let me visit.

Nor, come to think of it, would they have let you.
Guess they're not so controversial after all.

I'm having fun picturing you in burqa trying to sneak in though.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:23 pm

I'm delighted to announce first prize in the Understatement of the Decade contest:The aggressive approach of the Bush administration as it tried to implement its "freedom agenda" in the Arab world often ended up alienating not just leaders but also those who were meant to be "freed".

BBC News - How does the US view Tunisia's revolt?

It amazes me that Idi Amin gets such a bad press compared to George Bush, despite having been responsible for far fewer deaths and much less misery.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:00 am

Speaking of our good friend Idi......How the heck can someone who has only half of a primary school education end up as a major general ????

Post by **spot** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:39 am

fuzzywuzzy;1350930 wrote: Speaking of our good friend Idi......How the heck can someone who has only half of a primary school education end up as a major general ????

Rules for Self-Promotion

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:42 am

This was a pretty amazing event. I do wonder if the people will really get any real change though. What's everyones thoughts on the Wikileaks side of this?

Post by **spot** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:57 am

I expect earth-shattering exposures don't take place in diplomatic traffic. And the material leaked that I've seen is all invariably telling Washington exactly what Washington wants to hear, none of it rocks the State Department's boat, it's all very much on-message - do show me a counter-example if you've seen one. At best it annoys the locals when they get to read it, and I suspect quite a few Tunisians read the Tunis Embassy material. The URL for those must have got to a lot of Tunisian email accounts over the last month. Maybe it was sufficient, on top of everything else, to push the public displays just far enough, who can tell.

If anyone wants one specific country to follow suit, Egypt has to be it. Equally corrupt, equally seething with anger at the corruption, massively propped up by American governmental bribery.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:59 am

Egypt is the most likely candidate, that is correct. I think Jordan also but it's nowhere near as bad, Kazakhstan?

I think the Egyptian government and others watched this closely and will be prepared. It could get ugly if anything happens at all. They have the means to stop it either with bullets or words.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:44 pm

This is an interesting video, and true in my belief. Even biased sources at times give good information. I am sure the American sponsored NGOs are hard at work in Egypt as we speak. This is why I say that if you want real change you have to bust things up, words are just words. Sometimes you need to use a club to get a message across.

YouTube - Agenda Dictators: Democracy smothered by US policy of dictating debate with dollars

The people have apparently made a mess, hopefully they can get things back together without a lot of pain. Notice the make of the military vehicles? Made in America baby!!!

YouTube - Tunisia in turmoil after uprising

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:16 am

Apparently some people are following the road to martyrdom. I can't disagree, the powers that be are too corrupt. Sad there is not another way though. Hopefully there will not be a lot of bloodshed and the people get the change they need. Communist parties were mentioned. I believe communism as a form of government works in certain times and certain situations, but not in todays world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/world ... s&emc=tha2

librtyhead · Post by **librtyhead** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:10 pm

koan;1350907 wrote: "That family drove Porsches while we couldn't afford to eat," said an elderly man.

Tunisia: Gang violence mars celebration of popular uprising | World news | The Observer

We could say that in Canada too.

I've always thought that a leader should be ashamed to live more luxuriously than the average citizen. If the leader lives more comfortably than their constituents it seems they aren't doing a good enough job.

At least Canada is not ruled by some King or Queen from a place that is still backwards enough to still have Queens, kings, Princes etc. How England puts up with that waste of protocol amazes me. But it's their money right?

Post by **spot** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:15 pm

So whose fault is it that Tunisia has been systematically plundered by Leila Trabelsi and her relatives over the last two decades? Nobody but the Tunisians themselves, in my opinion. While they didn't take to the streets and tear down the images and have a popular uprising they lived the peaceful alternative and watched the flaunting of stolen wealth.

What will convincingly indicate a genuine overthrow of the old regime will be the issuing of international police warrants for their arrests, the entire pack of them, which will lock them all into a sterile life of excess in the Gulf. Without those warrants, Leila Trabelsi and her children and their cousins and all the assorted adherents will be glut-shopping in Paris and New York and Knightsbridge again six months from now. That's how you'll know who's won.

Walking off with a ton and a half of the country's gold bullion is one thing, having the freedom to flaunt a platinum credit card as one of the mega-rich is something else. Branding them all lifetime international criminals is the only acceptable step.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:42 am

From this morning's BBC reports:The foreign, interior and defence ministers all kept their jobs the national unity cabinet was unveiled on Monday.

Mr Ghannouchi said that he and the other remaining ministers had helped "preserve the national interest" in the past month, and were needed ahead of elections expected in the next two months.

"They kept their posts because we need them at this time," he told French radio Europe 1. "All of them have clean hands."

BBC News - Tunisia unity cabinet to hold first meeting amid row

What an utterly shameful lie. Depart, I say, and let us be done with you.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:40 am

spot;1351227 wrote: What will convincingly indicate a genuine overthrow of the old regime will be the issuing of international police warrants for their arrests, the entire pack of them, which will lock them all into a sterile life of excess in the Gulf. Without those warrants, Leila Trabelsi and her children and their cousins and all the assorted adherents will be glut-shopping in Paris and New York and Knightsbridge again six months from now. That's how you'll know who's won.Well, they're making gestures in the right direction: BBC News - Tunisia: Arrest warrant issued for ex-president Ben Ali

Scrat;1350971 wrote: I think the Egyptian government and others watched this closely and will be prepared. It could get ugly if anything happens at all. They have the means to stop it either with bullets or words.

I'd be surprised whether it gets anywhere but there's at least some grassroots bravery out there: BBC News - Egypt protests: Cairo and Suez see clashes with police

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:14 am

I saw a video last night, the country isn't functioning well. No one is starving as of yet but it could get worse. You're making good points Spot. If we really want to teach these people a lesson they have to be put on trial or hounded to their graves.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:05 pm

Scrat;1350976 wrote: This is an interesting video, and true in my belief. Even biased sources at times give good information. I am sure the American sponsored NGOs are hard at work in Egypt as we speak. This is why I say that if you want real change you have to bust things up, words are just words. Sometimes you need to use a club to get a message across.

YouTube - Agenda Dictators: Democracy smothered by US policy of dictating debate with dollars

The people have apparently made a mess, hopefully they can get things back together without a lot of pain. Notice the make of the military vehicles? Made in America baby!!!

YouTube - Tunisia in turmoil after uprising

I would have thought most of the content in that video would not be new to you. Chile, nicaragua, ---- it's quite a long list. the US has been supporting repressive regimes at the expense of democracy for decades. Sadly the british have been at it as well but to a lesser extent. It's coming home to roost nowadays

YouTube - Silence of the Press: US media turns blind eye to RT crew arrest

Actually British press kept quiet as well. Mind you they do have the excuse that it happened in an obscure part of the united states to TV channel most haven't even heard of. I'd be wary of RT reporting as much as i would anybody elses.

Post by **spot** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:49 am

spot;1350938 wrote: If anyone wants one specific country to follow suit, Egypt has to be it. Equally corrupt, equally seething with anger at the corruption, massively propped up by American governmental bribery.

The minions of the current US appointee, Mubarak, seem to be crawling off stage or being pushed, one by one.

BBC News - Egypt unrest: What if Mubarak goes?

Who knows, maybe General Suleiman will have to stand down from running Egyptian Intelligence and then the US will really be stuck for a replacement figurehead. It's wonderful to hear Hillary Clinton at a press conference calling for democratic elections - the last thing she wants is democratic elections in Egypt, if the country actually elected what the people want then the Muslim Brotherhood would form the next administration. Democratic elections, Hillary? Pull the other leg, a democratic election in Egypt is the one thing above all else that the State Department couldn't tolerate. What you actually want is the same team that's run the place as a US dependency ever since President Sadat abandoned Egypt's position as non-aligned but honest.

And why's it happening? Because the US decided to deploy its armed forces into the Middle East, of course. Which got the citizens' backs up and radicalized the masses, which isn't even slightly surprising. Well done those of you who voted Dubya, you wanted an external enemy and now it's there stood on its hind legs in the centre of Cairo and howling. It's too late now to complain you didn't want a real one.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:11 am

General Suleiman, in case anyone's not bothered to look him up, is the CIA's hands-on proxy torturer in Egypt, the electrode and thrash merchant at the end of the Extraordinary Rendition trail. An ideal replacement Head of State as far as US interests goes, obviously. Should Hillary Clinton's cynical joke about "free and fair democratic elections" happen in Egypt - and pigs might fly - the victorious Muslim Brotherhood would be more than happy to retire the General. Many of their potential candidates have personal experience of his charms.

As for Israel,Israel called on the United States and a number of European countries over the weekend to curb their criticism of President Hosni Mubarak to preserve stability in the region. Jerusalem seeks to convince its allies that it is in the West's interest to maintain the stability of the Egyptian regime.so no surprises there, then. Leave that dog chained in its kennel or I might get bitten.Senior Israeli officials, however, said that on Saturday night the Foreign Ministry issued a directive to around a dozen key embassies in the United States, Canada, China, Russia and several European countries. The ambassadors were told to stress to their host countries the importance of Egypt's stability. In a special cable, they were told to get this word out as soon as possible.

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:38 pm

Would anyone like to read about the chap lined up by the USA to take over Egypt in September?

News Desk: Who Is Omar Suleiman? : The New Yorker

A cold-blooded killer in the traditional US-surrogate Middle Eastern CIA obliger form. Not the sort of person to have the interests of Egypt's population at heart. I think (though obviously I don't know) that after a certain number of deaths on the torture room floor a person gets to see his victims as worth no more than their potential shock value.

If the State Department would just stop interfering, perhaps Egypt would get democracy - the will of the people enacted by the leadership as honest representatives of their constituents. It might not coincide with America's interests, but that's a lesser cost than what they get through banking up the fire of mass frustration.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:46 am

spot wrote: If anyone wants one specific country to follow suit, Egypt has to be it. Equally corrupt, equally seething with anger at the corruption, massively propped up by American governmental bribery

spot;1352601 wrote: If the State Department would just stop interfering, perhaps Egypt would get democracy - the will of the people enacted by the leadership as honest representatives of their constituents. It might not coincide with America's interests, but that's a lesser cost than what they get through banking up the fire of mass frustration.

Well well. Just four weeks since the thread started and President Mubarak of Egypt is out too, that's pretty good going.

How about it, America? The dictator you've propped up as Your Man In Cairo is gone, your cold-blooded proxy-killer General Omar Suleiman now runs an interim Junta on your behalf, presumably elections will follow. Are you going to allow everyone to stand in them who steps up to the plate, Mr President? And are you going to apologize for the thirty year wait?

Ex-President Mubarak, directly and through family fronts, has salted away perhaps US$50 billion of stolen cash around the planet. Is the US going to support lock-downs on those assets? Will the Egyptian people get the funds back which should have gone toward their well-being over the years?

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:09 am

Ex-President Mubarak, directly and through family fronts, has salted away perhaps US$50 billion of stolen cash around the planet. Is the US going to support lock-downs on those assets? Will the Egyptian people get the funds back which should have gone toward their well-being over the years?

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:14 am

Scrat;1353479 wrote: :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

It all comes down to Interpol warrants, scrat. People with Interpol warrants out on them end up unable to travel. I note that George W Bush cancelled a visit to Switzerland this month after he was warned he'd have an arrest warrant served on him if he went.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:53 am

spot;1353469 wrote: Ex-President Mubarak, directly and through family fronts, has salted away perhaps US$50 billion of stolen cash around the planet. Is the US going to support lock-downs on those assets? Will the Egyptian people get the funds back which should have gone toward their well-being over the years?

You may laugh, scrat, but...The Swiss government on Friday froze any assets belonging to former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak or his family in Switzerland.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Lars Knuchel said the order to block any bank accounts takes effect immediately but gave no details on the family's assets. He spoke as pro-democracy demonstrators in Cairo were jubilantly celebrating the announcement that Mubarak has resigned after nearly three decades of authoritarian rule and handed power over to the military.

Switzerland freezes any assets tied to Mubarak

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:55 am

Good call, Spot. It'll be interesting to see how the US behaves from here on out, though to imagine it will remain neutral and permit the will of the Egyptian people to determine their own fate has proven wishful thinking if history tells us anything. From what I've seen, Egypt appears to be well populated with competent members of it's society to lead.

So far we've seen Obama make about face statements on anything related to Israel as he's been pressured by foreign interest groups. Unless Obama is willing to face a similar fate to Jimmy Carter's, he'll do as he's told by the Israeli faction of my government, led in the senate by none other than the Israeli installed Lieberman.

BaghdadBob · Post by **BaghdadBob** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:26 pm

Ahso!;1353494 wrote: Good call, Spot. It'll be interesting to see how the US behaves from here on out, though to imagine it will remain neutral and permit the will of the Egyptian people to determine their own fate has proven wishful thinking if history tells us anything. From what I've seen, Egypt appears to be well populated with competent members of it's society to lead.

So far we've seen Obama make about face statements on anything related to Israel as he's been pressured by foreign interest groups. Unless Obama is willing to face a similar fate to Jimmy Carter's, he'll do as he's told by the Israeli faction of my government, led in the senate by none other than the Israeli installed Lieberman.

Don't worry. Obomba has managed to p.o. every world leader friendly to the US at one point or another. There's no reason to think he'll do anything different now.

Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner' - Times Online

&

He can't even treat the Dalai Lama with respect.

Attached files

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:40 pm

Funny, you guys were talking differently when Rhumsfeld, Cheney and Bush were dissing France and any other country hesitant to participate in our illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

The US should cease it's support of Israel. Let them fight their own battles, it's probably the only way to bring peace to the Middle East anyway. Israel would have to actually behave itself if the US would stop supporting it.

BaghdadBob · Post by **BaghdadBob** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:48 pm

Ahso!;1353501 wrote: Funny, you guys were talking differently when Rhumsfeld, Cheney and Bush were dissing France and any other country hesitant to participate in our illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Good grief! :wah:

The US should cease it's support of Israel. Let them fight their own battles, it's probably the only way to bring peace to the Middle East anyway. Israel would have to actually behave itself if the US would stop supporting it.

Your backhanded anti-Semitism goes hand in glove with the vulgar racism on this board.

I'm very disappointed in this place.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:00 pm

BaghdadBob;1353502 wrote: Good grief! :wah:

Your backhanded anti-Semitism goes hand in glove with the vulgar racism on this board.

I'm very disappointed in this place.Not quite. Quit the victim mentality.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:00 pm

BaghdadBob;1353502 wrote: Your backhanded anti-Semitism goes hand in glove with the vulgar racism on this board.Anti-Zionism is an entirely different thing to anti-Semitism. The first relates to human rights and apartheid, their institutional breach by Israeli laws, courts and constitution. The second is vulgar racism. We don't permit either anti-Semitism or racism on this board, it's in our terms and conditions and we police it.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:12 pm

Oh, that was just the sound of a conservative making as graceful an exit as possible under the circumstances. When ones world gets rocked as violently over the past few days as his a reprieve is needed to gather oneself along with a little time to seek out the official line to deal with a dilemma such as this.

It's tough for the conservative when uncertainty is introduced, when question and not just answers come into play.

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:48 am

So, where's Egypt reached so far?

Military dictatorship? Check.

The US still firmly dictating Egyptian foreign policy, down to crossing the t and dotting the i? Check.

I'll bump the thread when there's the first sign of Hillary's "free and fair democratic elections", shall I? And then we'll see what proportion of those hoping to stand for Parliament get rejected from the lists. Like the Afghan candidate list, and the Iraqi candidate list, also both run under US auspices.

And let's see who's allowed in to monitor the polling, shall we?

The one thing that would genuinely upset any White House administration would be a free and fair democratic election anywhere at all in the Middle East. Top of the list of things preventing free and fair democratic elections anywhere at all in the Middle East? US foreign policy, and you can date it back to 1953 in Iran.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:35 pm

Fancy that - the Tunisians are at least asking in public, "formally requesting the extradition of ex-President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali from Saudi Arabia, where he fled last month." - BBC News - Tunisia seeks Ben Ali extradition from Saudi Arabia

Crowds of Libyans appear to have no veneration for their man at the top, something I find slightly regrettable but there you go, if he really has been holding them down instead of fending off the wolves at the gate then I suppose he really is the self-serving old dog people have called him in the past. Getting crowds onto the street invariable means there's a real opposition, and I'd thought until now that there was a degree of unity in Libya. Whether anyone's funding the unrest is another matter.

Mind you, Wisconsin may secede from the Union at this rate.

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:17 am

Saudi unrest isn't, sadly, going to put the princes of the House of Saud out of their palaces and into penniless exile. Mere social injustice isn't a powerful enough tool. What it would take is a religious fundamentalist awakening sufficiently radical that the rulers fail to go along with it. Several tens of thousands of bearded Wahhabite bigots eager to cleanse Saud corruption from the holy places would do the trick.

BBC News - Saudi Arabia police open fire at protest in Qatif

Post by **spot** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:46 am

The Muslim Brotherhood may finally enter mainstream Egyptian politics now Egypt's American stooge has been so completely humiliated. Thirty years of lying on his back begging for scraps from the table and now presented in his own cage in his own courtroom before his own judges. I expect he'd prefer to have died.

One assumes the current Military Government will transfer power to a civilian administration. I doubt whether it will have many revolutionaries from the January protests elected to it. They may have pushed but they couldn't organize a non-alcoholic ****-up in an Islamic brewery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14382997

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:30 pm

spot;1363835 wrote: The Muslim Brotherhood may finally enter mainstream Egyptian politics now Egypt's American stooge has been so completely humiliated. Thirty years of lying on his back begging for scraps from the table and now presented in his own cage in his own courtroom before his own judges. I expect he'd prefer to have died.

One assumes the current Military Government will transfer power to a civilian administration. I doubt whether it will have many revolutionaries from the January protests elected to it. They may have pushed but they couldn't organize a non-alcoholic ****-up in an Islamic brewery.

BBC News - Mubarak trial: Egypt's ex-president denies all charges

Organised no, determined yes - no way it would have happened without them.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:02 am

Bryn Mawr;1363926 wrote: Organised no, determined yes - no way it would have happened without them.

There's little point doing it at all if you then leave it to others to decide what new power structures will replace those you pulled down.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:31 am

spot;1363935 wrote: There's little point doing it at all if you then leave it to others to decide what new power structures will replace those you pulled down.

I'm not sure I agree with that. At the very least, the next lot know that there is a limit beyond which the people will not sit quietly and take it.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:40 am

Bryn Mawr;1363938 wrote: I'm not sure I agree with that. At the very least, the next lot know that there is a limit beyond which the people will not sit quietly and take it.

That is, I concede, a valid point which I had not considered until now. And it's not just "no way it would have happened without them" - it's the continual re-eruption of the crowd which forced the Military Council to actually produce the primary malfeasors in open court this week.

Post by **spot** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:53 pm

spot;1363835 wrote: The Muslim Brotherhood may finally enter mainstream Egyptian politics now Egypt's American stooge has been so completely humiliated. Thirty years of lying on his back begging for scraps from the table and now presented in his own cage in his own courtroom before his own judges. I expect he'd prefer to have died.

One assumes the current Military Government will transfer power to a civilian administration. I doubt whether it will have many revolutionaries from the January protests elected to it. They may have pushed but they couldn't organize a non-alcoholic ****-up in an Islamic brewery.

BBC News - Mubarak trial: Egypt's ex-president denies all charges

And sure enough, who's first past the electoral post (unless the military panic and refuse to hand power to the civilian authority) - the Muslim Brotherhood. Who's running second? The less pragmatic and less accommodating ultra-conservative Salafist al-Nour Party. What with Libya being "liberated" by "Abdel Hakim Belhaj, the head of the Tripoli Military Council and former Guantanamo Bay inmate" and Egypt being taken by a party banned until this year, Osama bin Laden's approach to radicalizing the Ummah is paying off big time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16017862