Michael Moore Steps Up And Posts Bail For Assange

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:43 am

And he wrote a very good piece on the subject of Wikileaks, too. Michael Moore wrote:

Yesterday, in the Westminster Magistrates Court in London, the lawyers for WikiLeaks co-founder Julian Assange presented to the judge a document from me stating that I have put up $20,000 of my own money to help bail Mr. Assange out of jail.

Furthermore, I am publicly offering the assistance of my website, my servers, my domain names and anything else I can do to keep WikiLeaks alive and thriving as it continues its work to expose the crimes that were concocted in secret and carried out in our name and with our tax dollars.

Story: Michael Moore: Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:21 am

LOL! Michael sure knows how to follow controversy and keep himself in the limelight.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:28 am

Right. It's got nothing to do with conviction, that's reserved strictly for you. No, that's sanctimony.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:26 am

YouTube - Daniel Ellsberg on Wikileaks and Julian Assange on Countdown with Keith Olbermann -- 12/10/10

What puzzles me about all this is why after vietnam and all the lies involved in that americans are so ready to fall for it all again. In a way obama in like Tony Blair - he got in on a massive wave of support but turned out to be a bigger lying two faced **** than the ones that went before. (I live in a free country I am allowed to refer to politicians as shits without being unpatriotic)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:53 am

gmc;1346780 wrote: YouTube - Daniel Ellsberg on Wikileaks and Julian Assange on Countdown with Keith Olbermann -- 12/10/10

What puzzles me about all this is why after vietnam and all the lies involved in that americans are so ready to fall for it all again. In a way obama in like Tony Blair - he got in on a massive wave of support but turned out to be a bigger lying two faced **** than the ones that went before. (I live in a free country I am allowed to refer to politicians as shits without being unpatriotic)Moore wrote: Might WikiLeaks cause some unintended harm to diplomatic negotiations and U.S. interests around the world? Perhaps. But that's the price you pay when you and your government take us into a war based on a lie. Your punishment for misbehaving is that someone has to turn on all the lights in the room so that we can see what you're up to. You simply can't be trusted. So every cable, every email you write is now fair game.I have to wonder if Moore really means this or if he's simply still obsessed with Bush/Cheney. Why didn't he mention the current administration? Can you imagine the shitstorm if Obama & Co. suddenly came clean about Bush & Co., dumped their evidence on the public table and brought charges against them? Of course it won't happen because both administrations have essentially the same sponsors, but just imagine!

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:19 am

Accountable;1346781 wrote: I have to wonder if Moore really means this or if he's simply still obsessed with Bush/Cheney. Why didn't he mention the current administration? Can you imagine the shitstorm if Obama & Co. suddenly came clean about Bush & Co., dumped their evidence on the public table and brought charges against them? Of course it won't happen because both administrations have essentially the same sponsors, but just imagine!

Who would be able to bring such charges against a previous president? I know Nixon got pardoned before he was convicted of anything but there must be some way to put a president on trial.

In the UK it's parliament that has the sovereign power so a prime minister couldn't do something like that - at least in theory

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:00 am

gmc;1346780 wrote: [

What puzzles me about all this is why after vietnam and all the lies involved in that americans are so ready to fall for it all again.

Wrong. I'm not "falling" for anything. When this first came out, I was thinking, "So a couple of low level directives might come out about friendly fire incidents. Well, good. Maybe they'll be more careful."

Then when diplomatic cables came out by the thousands, angering our friends and shredding diplomacy, I thought, "Hey! What the Hell? That's not good. That didn't make the world a better place in any way."

Then when list of sensitive, critical soft targets that could immediately hurt the U.S. came out I thought, "You M**********R! That's sheer espionage. You just did that to hurt Americans!!

This isn't anything like Vietnam. I hope Ass-ange gets hurt big time. I want to see that piece of human filth groveling on the ground.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:44 pm

What puzzles me about all this is why after vietnam and all the lies involved in that americans are so ready to fall for it all again.

It's the herd mentality gmc, that's all.

This isn't anything like Vietnam.

Stop getting so emotional. It obviously clouds your judgment. It's about peoples rights to know.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:37 pm

Saint_;1346804 wrote: Wrong. I'm not "falling" for anything. When this first came out, I was thinking, "So a couple of low level directives might come out about friendly fire incidents. Well, good. Maybe they'll be more careful."

Then when diplomatic cables came out by the thousands, angering our friends and shredding diplomacy, I thought, "Hey! What the Hell? That's not good. That didn't make the world a better place in any way."

Then when list of sensitive, critical soft targets that could immediately hurt the U.S. came out I thought, "You M**********R! That's sheer espionage. You just did that to hurt Americans!!

This isn't anything like Vietnam. I hope Ass-ange gets hurt big time. I want to see that piece of human filth groveling on the ground.

Have you actually read any of the cables for yourself?

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:36 am

I guess he's out of jail. Let's see what happens next.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/world ... r=1&emc=na

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:54 am

Here's a great quote that I found that I think is very true:

It is not one piece of information, but the overall picture of all leaks. PERCEPTION is key. If you are no longer perceived as the world's superpower, you no longer are that. You are less feared, less respected, less seen as invincible. Which is an open invitation to all organisations, countries, power blocks, hackers or terrorists to compete with you. In that sense it has not only decreased the national security of the US, but that of the world as a whole.

Many might not have been happy with the US as global policeman, but at least the world had one. Now we are gradually moving towards a world with clashing power blocks... a sort of medieval style fragmentation that does not promise anything good.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:42 pm

Saint_;1346909 wrote: Here's a great quote that I found that I think is very true:

It is not one piece of information, but the overall picture of all leaks. PERCEPTION is key. If you are no longer perceived as the world's superpower, you no longer are that. You are less feared, less respected, less seen as invincible. Which is an open invitation to all organisations, countries, power blocks, hackers or terrorists to compete with you. In that sense it has not only decreased the national security of the US, but that of the world as a whole.

Many might not have been happy with the US as global policeman, but at least the world had one. Now we are gradually moving towards a world with clashing power blocks... a sort of medieval style fragmentation that does not promise anything good.

That says a lot about the way you think. Why do you want to be feared? Why do you think you will be less respected because you are not? If you are afraid of economic competition cease trading. The days of imperialism and aggressive foreign policies against weaker nations have hopefully passed. If foreign companies outperform yours and make better products stop bleating about it and make yourself more competitive.

I hate to tell you this but the power blocs are still pretty much the way they have been for the last hundred years or so. If anything war is less likely between the major powers now than it has been for decades, the biggest worry was delusional right wing fascists who thought military power should be used to further national interests because they believed the military power was so great no one would be able to stop them. For the moment they seem to be on the back foot. Warfare between european nations is highly unlikely now as is warfare with russia and the rest of europe. Been there done that don't want to do it again. China and Russia have come close a few times but pulled back from the brink and a major war seems unlikely. Pakistan and india might yet go to war and since both have nuclear weapons that is worrying. Major war in the middle east might still occur but it's only the need for oil that makes that place interesting.

Things like wikileaks make war less likely not more, people can find out what is actually going on rather than what they are told. It would be ironic if the US introduced major censorship of the internet for it's citizens but at least they might stop criticising china and russia for doing the same thing. People suspected that the intelligence reports for going in to iraq had been jazzed up perhaps confirmation that they were misled might make people more cynical in future rather than just believing what they are told.

Empires are always destroyed from within or bankrupted by war (see history of europe) It's not terrorists that are destroying america and making you impotent the bankers that caused the economic collapse and accountants that convinced people all that matters is the bottom line and shifted all you jobs abroad. An economy based on unemployment cheques and selling houses for overinflated amounts doesn't work.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:33 pm

gmc;1346918 wrote: That says a lot about the way you think. Why do you want to be feared? Why do you think you will be less respected because you are not? If you are afraid of economic competition cease trading. The days of imperialism and aggressive foreign policies against weaker nations have hopefully passed. If foreign companies outperform yours and make better products stop bleating about it and make yourself more competitive.

I'd love it if it was that easy!

But mankind never seems to work that way....

There is a pecking order and it is important and great countries do rise and fall by their reputations... (See: The Lucifer Principle)

http://howardbloom.net/lucifer/

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:08 pm

Things like wikileaks make war less likely not more, people can find out what is actually going on rather than what they are told.

What if we Americans had known more about the gulf of Tonkin incident. 50,000 Americans and many more Vietnamese, Cambodians and god knows who other died in a war based on lies.

Many might not have been happy with the US as global policeman, but at least the world had one. Now we are gradually moving towards a world with clashing power blocks... a sort of medieval style fragmentation that does not promise anything good.

This may just be what the doctor ordered. America might have to become self reliant again. OH!! THE HORROR!!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Scrat;1346943 wrote: This may just be what the doctor ordered. America might have to become self reliant again. Common ground!

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:26 pm

Saint_;1346925 wrote: I'd love it if it was that easy!

But mankind never seems to work that way....

There is a pecking order and it is important and great countries do rise and fall by their reputations... (See: The Lucifer Principle)

The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into The Forces of History

To me we lost more reputation when we couldn't find Osama bin Laden, attacked the wrong country Iraq, and then had to crawl on our hands and knees to China to beg for money.

IMO Assange is more on the level of the boy who points out the emperor isn't wearing clothes. Most of these things in the cables, people could already plainly see with their own eyeballs.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:01 am

Saint_;1346925 wrote: I'd love it if it was that easy!

But mankind never seems to work that way....

There is a pecking order and it is important and great countries do rise and fall by their reputations... (See: The Lucifer Principle)

The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into The Forces of History

I'm unfamiliar with Howard Bloom so you have me at a disadvantage in that regard but On the face of it I would disagree that countries rise and fall by their reputation, they don't. Reputations came with events, countries rise and fall by whether they have the economy and social structures to survive in a competitive world. Economics and warfare have always gone hand in hand but too much treasure spent on warfare will eventually bring down any empire if it can't move on. We've moved on from empires and constant warfare for narrow economic interests but governments are still catching up with reality. Your economy is in the shits and your reputation in tatters because you moved on to behave like an expansionist empire that saw enemies everywhere and couldn't change course. Roosevelt and eisenhower were right when they warned about the dangers of elites getting control of government and using fear to curb dissent. It just took a few decades to work it's way through so now you see threats to your national integrity if ordinary people can find out what goes on behind closed doors and calls to assassinate someone who reports on what is going on. How did government should not have too much power become you should not question what government does or tell it what to do? God bless america and keep the powder dry.

The State, in choosing men to serve it, takes no notice of their opinions. If they be willing faithfully to serve it, that satisfies.

Who rules in america, the state or the people? If you never question and don't think you have a right to do so then the answer is all too obvious.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:32 pm

How did government should not have too much power become you should not question what government does or tell it what to do?

Well said. What Assange and his people have done is dare to expose the dirty laundry of government. It may be in ways bad but there is nothing more paramount than my right to know.

If I meekly submit to anyone or anything for any reason I am giving up my freedom. Freedom has a price, and at times the price is very steep. Spin your side any way you like Saint. Freedom isn't free.