Often I have mentioned what I think is the root cause of Atheism, that being God himself establishing that way of thinking in humans. But once the ball is in the human court, often we can see them take it and run with it. And run to the extreme. Have you ever seen extreme Atheism? I listened to an Atheist speak to a crowd the other day, and his message was very extreme. He held to and followed extreme principles, some of which I would like to examine.
This man had fundemental opinions and voiced uncompromising methods in his view of God.Some very heavy views. He was Radical for sure, and you can tell he believed in what he was screaming. I knid of took an intrest in the program, because it reminded me somewhat of an old Klan rally. I saw no one black, because Atheist are predominantly white males anyway. I think some 70% are white males. Why that is I don't yet know. Atheism is not racism, well not racism toward humans anyway. I could make a case that it is a type of racism toward God, but that is not my focus here.
My focus here is on the " Radical side of Atheism."
A truly interesting human dynamic which I would like to discuss.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Radical Atheism.
Some Atheist are passive, not caring about whoelse is Atheist or not. They don't bother announcing their views, their more like " Closet Atheist", minding their own business. Some are conservitive but open to public intrest and discussion. But there are some who are on a crusade, aggressive and alluring, looking to enlist others to their cause. A kind of oppisite to theistical evangelism, it is Atheist evangelism. They need to get your attention and sway your mind, no, save your mind from the onslaught of religion. And they speak with vigor and authority, much like religious evangelist do.
Which I find interesting, I have often stated that Atheism is the flip side of Religion, on the same coin. Oh but radical Atheism will have no such comparrision, it would be an insult! They feel they stand alone and unique.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Which I find interesting, I have often stated that Atheism is the flip side of Religion, on the same coin. Oh but radical Atheism will have no such comparrision, it would be an insult! They feel they stand alone and unique.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
What specific views did this person have Mickiel, that would in your view make him a Radical Atheist?
Radical Atheism.
This is one of the few things that I might agree with you on. Excepting that "closet atheism" is the norm not the exception. It's not that they are hiding it, most atheists are content in not believing and don't need to prove it, which is fine by me. The "extreme atheism" is just as offensive as evangelistic literalism. The literalists are the only ones the atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are truly addressing, which doesn't do their cause any justice. There is no baby in the bath water in either case.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345181 wrote: What specific views did this person have Mickiel, that would in your view make him a Radical Atheist?
Well its what he believed about others who were not Atheist, but believers in God that shocked me. He pretended he was a religious preacher, and gave a mock sermon. And he mocked God, prayer, the bible, the act of belief, the mental status of believers, the concept of Heaven, ( and hell, but I agreed with his views of hell) and so on. Rather than give an exegeisis of Atheism and what its all about, he just ranted and raved on religion and God, how stupid it was and he enlisted sarcasm instead of reason, which is why it reminded me of a clan rally, or a hate group, because the Atheist in the crowd were cheering him on.
The man had a chance to publically state his case and go into Atheism, instead he chewed on religion like a hate monger , which I thought was the wrong message to use at such an opportune time. You know, spit venom instead of reasoning with people. And thats radical Atheism.
Peace.
Well its what he believed about others who were not Atheist, but believers in God that shocked me. He pretended he was a religious preacher, and gave a mock sermon. And he mocked God, prayer, the bible, the act of belief, the mental status of believers, the concept of Heaven, ( and hell, but I agreed with his views of hell) and so on. Rather than give an exegeisis of Atheism and what its all about, he just ranted and raved on religion and God, how stupid it was and he enlisted sarcasm instead of reason, which is why it reminded me of a clan rally, or a hate group, because the Atheist in the crowd were cheering him on.
The man had a chance to publically state his case and go into Atheism, instead he chewed on religion like a hate monger , which I thought was the wrong message to use at such an opportune time. You know, spit venom instead of reasoning with people. And thats radical Atheism.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
koan;1345204 wrote: This is one of the few things that I might agree with you on. Excepting that "closet atheism" is the norm not the exception. It's not that they are hiding it, most atheists are content in not believing and don't need to prove it, which is fine by me. The "extreme atheism" is just as offensive as evangelistic literalism. The literalists are the only ones the atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are truly addressing, which doesn't do their cause any justice. There is no baby in the bath water in either case.
I didnot state that closet Atheism was the norm, so I don't know where you got that from. I very clearly stated that " Some Atheist were Closet Atheist". But I agree that extreme Atheism can be just as offensive as Evangelistic Literalism, both sides of the same coin I think. One heads, the other tails. Giving two oppisite extremes which are inner connected, but hate each other, yet need each other to exist.
Radicalism, the extreme introduction to color coated hate.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
I didnot state that closet Atheism was the norm, so I don't know where you got that from. I very clearly stated that " Some Atheist were Closet Atheist". But I agree that extreme Atheism can be just as offensive as Evangelistic Literalism, both sides of the same coin I think. One heads, the other tails. Giving two oppisite extremes which are inner connected, but hate each other, yet need each other to exist.
Radicalism, the extreme introduction to color coated hate.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
If I were an Atheist with a public platform, I would go into Atheism and state its case, reason it out, and I think few Atheist do that, but some do. I admit that the media plays a role in this, perhaps more attracted to extremism than reason. When you feed yourself with extremism, you are never " Balanced", but form a foundation based more on emotion unchecked than intelligence released into your consciousness. And almost any extremist can whip up a crowd into a frenzy, which is why extreme Atheism is simular to extreme religion.
And I want to touch on that.
Peace.
And I want to touch on that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
You know, Mickey, when I converse with right wing Christian nut cases, I feel a bit like Patton felt toward Rommel. You see, I've read your book, I've walked in your shoes, I know whats in it and what you believe, whereas you, OTOH, have no book of mine to gain knowledge from. Atheism is merely a response to belief in God, and if there were never no such belief, there would be no atheism.
Are there radicals? Of course there are. There are radical diamond lovers and haters. Every belief or philosophy has an equal opposite reflection.
Are there radicals? Of course there are. There are radical diamond lovers and haters. Every belief or philosophy has an equal opposite reflection.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Radical Atheism.
Ahso!;1345240 wrote: You know, Mickey, when I converse with right wing Christian nut cases, I feel a bit like Patton felt toward Rommel. You see, I've read your book, I've walked in your shoes, I know whats in it and what you believe, whereas you, OTOH, have no book of mine to gain knowledge from. Atheism is merely a response to belief in God, and if there were never no such belief, there would be no atheism.
Are there radicals? Of course there are. There are radical diamond lovers and haters. Every belief or philosophy has an equal opposite reflection.
Well that is exactly part of what I am saying, both Atheism and Theism has an oppisite reflection of each other, which is what I meant by they being oppisite sides of the same coin, or same human experience. We experience belief and unbelief on various topics and subjects and realitys and what is not reality. We fight together, we eat together, we disagree together, but we are all bonded to the human experience.
When one experience labels the other experience a handicap, then we enter into the extreme. And radicals are then rideing the wave of this extreme, now made popular.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Are there radicals? Of course there are. There are radical diamond lovers and haters. Every belief or philosophy has an equal opposite reflection.
Well that is exactly part of what I am saying, both Atheism and Theism has an oppisite reflection of each other, which is what I meant by they being oppisite sides of the same coin, or same human experience. We experience belief and unbelief on various topics and subjects and realitys and what is not reality. We fight together, we eat together, we disagree together, but we are all bonded to the human experience.
When one experience labels the other experience a handicap, then we enter into the extreme. And radicals are then rideing the wave of this extreme, now made popular.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345245 wrote: Well that is exactly part of what I am saying, both Atheism and Theism has an oppisite reflection of each other, which is what I meant by they being oppisite sides of the same coin, or same human experience. We experience belief and unbelief on various topics and subjects and realitys and what is not reality. We fight together, we eat together, we disagree together, but we are all bonded to the human experience.
When one experience labels the other experience a handicap, then we enter into the extreme. And radicals are then rideing the wave of this extreme, now made popular.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.They are not both reflections, Mickey. One is a reflection of the the original idea, thought, feeling, philosophy, belief or what have you. If there were no you, there would be no reflection of you.
When one experience labels the other experience a handicap, then we enter into the extreme. And radicals are then rideing the wave of this extreme, now made popular.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.They are not both reflections, Mickey. One is a reflection of the the original idea, thought, feeling, philosophy, belief or what have you. If there were no you, there would be no reflection of you.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Radical Atheism.
Ahso!;1345251 wrote: They are not both reflections, Mickey. One is a reflection of the the original idea, thought, feeling, philosophy, belief or what have you. If there were no you, there would be no reflection of you.
Well I agree it began like that years ago, but I think they both have blended far too much for them to exist seperately entirely. One can debate or fight with themselves, but it is more thrilling to do it with another. Its more radical.
Peace.
Well I agree it began like that years ago, but I think they both have blended far too much for them to exist seperately entirely. One can debate or fight with themselves, but it is more thrilling to do it with another. Its more radical.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Atheism not only denys the existence of gods , but by defacto elimination, it denys the faith required, the unity required by such belief, the art of praying, the results of spiritual fellowship, the benefits of such belief are endless. Conversely, believers deny the benefits of unbelief, the realism it offers, the freedom it offers, the individualism it offers. This is a type of war, one side opposed to the other, but yet the war has started, and decades later has never ended. THAT is extreme compitition, where there never is an end.
Atheism in its extreme, I think shortsights Atheism itself. Discredits it. Defames it, places it into catagorys it maynot belong in. I have seen it compared to groups like " The Skinheads", and that speech I heard from this Atheist I mentioned, he gave me no reason not to give credit to such foolish comparrison. And this is what can happen when we go to the extreme, it blurs the line of reason. Christians have their extreme hell punishment, and have discredited God himself. Radical Atheist have their " Communist arua", and it discredits them.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Atheism in its extreme, I think shortsights Atheism itself. Discredits it. Defames it, places it into catagorys it maynot belong in. I have seen it compared to groups like " The Skinheads", and that speech I heard from this Atheist I mentioned, he gave me no reason not to give credit to such foolish comparrison. And this is what can happen when we go to the extreme, it blurs the line of reason. Christians have their extreme hell punishment, and have discredited God himself. Radical Atheist have their " Communist arua", and it discredits them.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
It's just my opinion as one Atheist, but I believe that MAIN STREAM CHRISTIANS are far more discriminatory, exclusionary and prejudicial than are MAIN STREAM ATHEISTS.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345273 wrote: It's just my opinion as one Atheist, but I believe that MAIN STREAM CHRISTIANS are far more discriminatory, exclusionary and prejudicial than are MAIN STREAM ATHEISTS.
Well that may be true, certainly satistically speaking they far out number your group. Your the minority, but it exist in both groups, your human as well. Radicalism is the magnification of human nature to the extreme, so they stretch and extend their philosophys beyond what we can consider " Normal" in both factions. And when that extreme becomes " Natural in them", we see uncanny results that often do more damage than good. Then it starts " Feeling good to them", and when it feels good to crush and damage other ways of being and thought, wars are born like that, and the real value of their philosophy is more eaisly lost or misunderstood.
Peace.
Well that may be true, certainly satistically speaking they far out number your group. Your the minority, but it exist in both groups, your human as well. Radicalism is the magnification of human nature to the extreme, so they stretch and extend their philosophys beyond what we can consider " Normal" in both factions. And when that extreme becomes " Natural in them", we see uncanny results that often do more damage than good. Then it starts " Feeling good to them", and when it feels good to crush and damage other ways of being and thought, wars are born like that, and the real value of their philosophy is more eaisly lost or misunderstood.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Unless asked specifically, I keep my non belief to my self. If I were vocal and mouthed off about Atheism and my non belief, trust me, I would be persona non grata in the community that I live, making social intercourse quite difficult. In fact, I suspect that if I voiced extreme political viewpoints like anarchy, I would meet with greater social acceptance than being an atheist.
Radical Atheism.
The christian church invented Satanism but now no one takes them seriously (in the west anyway) when they claim witchcraft now they have invented a new enemy called radical atheism. Soon we will hear the call of atheist get thee behind me. Oh hang on they seem to be working on that.
YouTube - Atheists Banned From Public Office in 7 State Constitutions
The reality is atheists are quite happy to let the religious believe what they want so long as they don't try and make non-believers convert or keep their opinions to themselves by force or fear and intimidation. The only reason you have anything like radical atheists in the states is because of fundamentalist Christians who seem to want to re-make the states in to a christian nation. The irony being it would most likely be a catholic nation as the protestants are increasingly in the minority.
Catholic Church in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Catholic Church has the third highest total number of individual parishes in the US, behind Southern Baptists and United Methodists. However, because the average Catholic parish is significantly larger than the average church from those denominations, there are more than four times as many Catholics as Southern Baptists and more than eight times as many as United Methodists.[8] Represented in the USCCB are 195 archdioceses and dioceses (in the US and the Territory of the Virgin Islands):
There will never be a right wing fundamentalist takeover in the states because before they get to that point there would be sectarian warfare. It is a truism that just as muslims hate other muslims more than unbelievers Christians hate other Christians more than unbelievers.
The word bigot seems to have it's origins in either german or english words meaning by god. The twelfth century Anglo-Norman author Wace claimed that bigot was an insult which the French used against the Normans, but it is unclear whether or not this is how it entered the English language. In any case it was a derogatory term used for someone who was a religious hypocrite. Many christians preach the christian message of love and understanding but are incapable of truly extending it to anyone outside their circle. Somehow they convince themselves it's not their fault they are so intolerant and blame god instead. It's sad really that you feel you need to invent enemies to give you a sense of purpose in your life and harken to the delusion that non believers were put there to test your faith.
Often I have mentioned what I think is the root cause of Atheism, that being God himself establishing that way of thinking in humans.
The origin is people with the ability to reason looking at religion and deciding it is a load of bollocks. Just as some people look at harry potter and decide it is promoting withchcraft and somehow it is all for real. They can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
YouTube - Atheists Banned From Public Office in 7 State Constitutions
The reality is atheists are quite happy to let the religious believe what they want so long as they don't try and make non-believers convert or keep their opinions to themselves by force or fear and intimidation. The only reason you have anything like radical atheists in the states is because of fundamentalist Christians who seem to want to re-make the states in to a christian nation. The irony being it would most likely be a catholic nation as the protestants are increasingly in the minority.
Catholic Church in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Catholic Church has the third highest total number of individual parishes in the US, behind Southern Baptists and United Methodists. However, because the average Catholic parish is significantly larger than the average church from those denominations, there are more than four times as many Catholics as Southern Baptists and more than eight times as many as United Methodists.[8] Represented in the USCCB are 195 archdioceses and dioceses (in the US and the Territory of the Virgin Islands):
There will never be a right wing fundamentalist takeover in the states because before they get to that point there would be sectarian warfare. It is a truism that just as muslims hate other muslims more than unbelievers Christians hate other Christians more than unbelievers.
The word bigot seems to have it's origins in either german or english words meaning by god. The twelfth century Anglo-Norman author Wace claimed that bigot was an insult which the French used against the Normans, but it is unclear whether or not this is how it entered the English language. In any case it was a derogatory term used for someone who was a religious hypocrite. Many christians preach the christian message of love and understanding but are incapable of truly extending it to anyone outside their circle. Somehow they convince themselves it's not their fault they are so intolerant and blame god instead. It's sad really that you feel you need to invent enemies to give you a sense of purpose in your life and harken to the delusion that non believers were put there to test your faith.
Often I have mentioned what I think is the root cause of Atheism, that being God himself establishing that way of thinking in humans.
The origin is people with the ability to reason looking at religion and deciding it is a load of bollocks. Just as some people look at harry potter and decide it is promoting withchcraft and somehow it is all for real. They can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345281 wrote: Unless asked specifically, I keep my non belief to my self. If I were vocal and mouthed off about Atheism and my non belief, trust me, I would be persona non grata in the community that I live, making social intercourse quite difficult. In fact, I suspect that if I voiced extreme political viewpoints like anarchy, I would meet with greater social acceptance than being an atheist.
Well that lets you know how far behind Atheism is from being socially accepted fully in society. And I think the main reason for that, is radical Atheism, it gets the media. Etremism is the reason its gets stumped on, either extremism from Atheism, or against it.
Peace.
Well that lets you know how far behind Atheism is from being socially accepted fully in society. And I think the main reason for that, is radical Atheism, it gets the media. Etremism is the reason its gets stumped on, either extremism from Atheism, or against it.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
gmc;1345291 wrote:
The origin is people with the ability to reason looking at religion and deciding it is a load of bollocks. Just as some people look at harry potter and decide it is promoting withchcraft and somehow it is all for real. They can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
I am curious, and I post this question to not only you, but any Atheist or Agnostic; why do you think over 70% of Atheist are white males?
Peace.
The origin is people with the ability to reason looking at religion and deciding it is a load of bollocks. Just as some people look at harry potter and decide it is promoting withchcraft and somehow it is all for real. They can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
I am curious, and I post this question to not only you, but any Atheist or Agnostic; why do you think over 70% of Atheist are white males?
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345296 wrote: I am curious, and I post this question to not only you, but any Atheist or Agnostic; why do you think over 70% of Atheist are white males?
Peace.
I suspect that it is because worldwide, white males have more education and exposure to books & ideas.
Peace.
I suspect that it is because worldwide, white males have more education and exposure to books & ideas.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345296 wrote: I am curious, and I post this question to not only you, but any Atheist or Agnostic; why do you think over 70% of Atheist are white males?
Peace.
Interesting statistic, where does it come from?
Peace.
Interesting statistic, where does it come from?
Radical Atheism.
Bryn Mawr;1345301 wrote: Interesting statistic, where does it come from?
From the demographics of Atheism- Wikipedia.
Peace.
From the demographics of Atheism- Wikipedia.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Extremists, whatever their choice of subject, tend to be very vocal and appear as though they have a cause to fulfill. I tend to stear clear of such people because they seem to want to dominate others with their ideas as if their ideas are the only right ideas and all other options are invalid.
Atheists do not really have a middle ground. Being an atheist, there really is nothing to shout about. There is no god and no reason to go on about it. On the other hand, just try and force an atheist to believe in a deity or a deity based religion. Then I think you will find, they will quite vociferously state their case.
Most mature atheists are aware of the way a religious argument can become aggressive and this is so between those that believe in different religions, let alone between those that do and don't believe in a deity. Also, atheists are more aware nowadays that there is no conclusive case either way for or against a deity. An atheist would look at something that is not explained by science as something waiting for sufficient understanding for an explanation rather than a case that there must be a god.
Atheists do not really have a middle ground. Being an atheist, there really is nothing to shout about. There is no god and no reason to go on about it. On the other hand, just try and force an atheist to believe in a deity or a deity based religion. Then I think you will find, they will quite vociferously state their case.
Most mature atheists are aware of the way a religious argument can become aggressive and this is so between those that believe in different religions, let alone between those that do and don't believe in a deity. Also, atheists are more aware nowadays that there is no conclusive case either way for or against a deity. An atheist would look at something that is not explained by science as something waiting for sufficient understanding for an explanation rather than a case that there must be a god.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345298 wrote: I suspect that it is because worldwide, white males have more education and exposure to books & ideas.
Well I disagree with that assertion. Here in America, the Nigerians are the most educated race. 17% of them have Masters degrees, 4% Doctorates, and 37% Bachelors, a stunning stat. In the world, Austrialians, Russians, New Zealanders and Indians have higher education than whites. Your demographic has changed over the years.
Peace.
Well I disagree with that assertion. Here in America, the Nigerians are the most educated race. 17% of them have Masters degrees, 4% Doctorates, and 37% Bachelors, a stunning stat. In the world, Austrialians, Russians, New Zealanders and Indians have higher education than whites. Your demographic has changed over the years.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
For those of us that were non believers as children and teenagers, growing up was a bit confusing when you were surrounded with friends and family (as I was) that were Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian. To be accepted, you go along to get along but all the time not believing and also wondering why you don't believe as they do. I was baptized three separate times in three different faiths just to make others happy. And for many of us non believers we evolve as we age and our non belief becomes more a matter of logic and common sense. Faith alone flies in the face of logic and common sense in my opinion.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345306 wrote: For those of us that were non believers as children and teenagers, growing up was a bit confusing when you were surrounded with friends and family (as I was) that were Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian. To be accepted, you go along to get along but all the time not believing and also wondering why you don't believe as they do. I was baptized three separate times in three different faiths just to make others happy. And for many of us non believers we evolve as we age and our non belief becomes more a matter of logic and common sense. Faith alone flies in the face of logic and common sense in my opinion.
Three different baptisms and you state they were all to please others. That seems incredible that none of those times you can take responsibility for what you did yourself. Thats kind of unusual.
Peace.
Three different baptisms and you state they were all to please others. That seems incredible that none of those times you can take responsibility for what you did yourself. Thats kind of unusual.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
OpenMind;1345304 wrote: Extremists, whatever their choice of subject, tend to be very vocal and appear as though they have a cause to fulfill. I tend to stear clear of such people because they seem to want to dominate others with their ideas as if their ideas are the only right ideas and all other options are invalid.
Atheists do not really have a middle ground. Being an atheist, there really is nothing to shout about. There is no god and no reason to go on about it. On the other hand, just try and force an atheist to believe in a deity or a deity based religion. Then I think you will find, they will quite vociferously state their case.
Most mature atheists are aware of the way a religious argument can become aggressive and this is so between those that believe in different religions, let alone between those that do and don't believe in a deity. Also, atheists are more aware nowadays that there is no conclusive case either way for or against a deity. An atheist would look at something that is not explained by science as something waiting for sufficient understanding for an explanation rather than a case that there must be a god.
Well I can agree with and understand most of this, but I disagree with there is no evidence for a deity, thats an old school excuse in my view, the evidence is mounting daily.
Peace.
Atheists do not really have a middle ground. Being an atheist, there really is nothing to shout about. There is no god and no reason to go on about it. On the other hand, just try and force an atheist to believe in a deity or a deity based religion. Then I think you will find, they will quite vociferously state their case.
Most mature atheists are aware of the way a religious argument can become aggressive and this is so between those that believe in different religions, let alone between those that do and don't believe in a deity. Also, atheists are more aware nowadays that there is no conclusive case either way for or against a deity. An atheist would look at something that is not explained by science as something waiting for sufficient understanding for an explanation rather than a case that there must be a god.
Well I can agree with and understand most of this, but I disagree with there is no evidence for a deity, thats an old school excuse in my view, the evidence is mounting daily.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345302 wrote: From the demographics of Atheism- Wikipedia.
Peace.
A couple of quotes from that article :-
Statistics on atheism are often difficult to represent accurately for a variety of reasons.
Legal and social discrimination against atheists in some places may lead some to deny or conceal their atheism due to fears of persecution.
The only direct reference in the article I can see is :-
Overall, U.S. Americans who profess no religion or self-identify as Atheist or Agnostic are more likely to be white non-Hispanic or Asian and less likely to be African American, as compared to the general adult population in U.S.[55]
but in general I would ask how many studies have been conducted in, say, India or China? If all of the studies have been in countries where over 70% of the population is white then the statistic points to a sexual bias rather than a racial one.
Peace.
A couple of quotes from that article :-
Statistics on atheism are often difficult to represent accurately for a variety of reasons.
Legal and social discrimination against atheists in some places may lead some to deny or conceal their atheism due to fears of persecution.
The only direct reference in the article I can see is :-
Overall, U.S. Americans who profess no religion or self-identify as Atheist or Agnostic are more likely to be white non-Hispanic or Asian and less likely to be African American, as compared to the general adult population in U.S.[55]
but in general I would ask how many studies have been conducted in, say, India or China? If all of the studies have been in countries where over 70% of the population is white then the statistic points to a sexual bias rather than a racial one.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345305 wrote: Well I disagree with that assertion. Here in America, the Nigerians are the most educated race. 17% of them have Masters degrees, 4% Doctorates, and 37% Bachelors, a stunning stat. In the world, Austrialians, Russians, New Zealanders and Indians have higher education than whites. Your demographic has changed over the years.
Peace.
C'mon Mikiel----------There are very few if any white men living in tribal conditions as there are indigenous peoples of Africa, So America, Asia. And by the way, Australians other than Aborigines and the Maori's of New Zealand are all white.
And yes, while many Africans are extremely well educated, that is only a fraction of their total population. In terms of WORLD POPULATION, whites as a percentage of that population are better educatd. I don't think I even need a reference to back that statement up.
Peace.
C'mon Mikiel----------There are very few if any white men living in tribal conditions as there are indigenous peoples of Africa, So America, Asia. And by the way, Australians other than Aborigines and the Maori's of New Zealand are all white.
And yes, while many Africans are extremely well educated, that is only a fraction of their total population. In terms of WORLD POPULATION, whites as a percentage of that population are better educatd. I don't think I even need a reference to back that statement up.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345307 wrote: Three different baptisms and you state they were all to please others. That seems incredible that none of those times you can take responsibility for what you did yourself. Thats kind of unusual.
Peace.
It's called Wanting to Please-----------or let's go along to get along.
Peace.
It's called Wanting to Please-----------or let's go along to get along.
Radical Atheism.
Bryn Mawr;1345309 wrote:
but in general I would ask how many studies have been conducted in, say, India or China? If all of the studies have been in countries where over 70% of the population is white then the statistic points to a sexual bias rather than a racial one.
Well that makes sense, but the 73% is an American stat, not other countries. One of the main goals of Atheist organizations that are publically involved, is to get rid of that stigma. In fact they are inviting more speakers to their meetings who are female and non white, to help change that stigma. My question was why is it that so many Atheist are white males? I think thats one of the reasons Atheist groups catch so much social negatism, because they are being compared to other negative white male groups like the clan and skinheads. They need to change that stigma and demographic, seriously do.
Theres a growing group of Atheist in the world. Heres a percentage of Atheist in other countrys;
Hungary 19% Atheist
Spain 18%
U K 20%
Luxemburg 22%
Germany 25%
Belgium 27%
Czech Republic 30%
France tops the list at 33% Atheist population.
Peace.
but in general I would ask how many studies have been conducted in, say, India or China? If all of the studies have been in countries where over 70% of the population is white then the statistic points to a sexual bias rather than a racial one.
Well that makes sense, but the 73% is an American stat, not other countries. One of the main goals of Atheist organizations that are publically involved, is to get rid of that stigma. In fact they are inviting more speakers to their meetings who are female and non white, to help change that stigma. My question was why is it that so many Atheist are white males? I think thats one of the reasons Atheist groups catch so much social negatism, because they are being compared to other negative white male groups like the clan and skinheads. They need to change that stigma and demographic, seriously do.
Theres a growing group of Atheist in the world. Heres a percentage of Atheist in other countrys;
Hungary 19% Atheist
Spain 18%
U K 20%
Luxemburg 22%
Germany 25%
Belgium 27%
Czech Republic 30%
France tops the list at 33% Atheist population.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345310 wrote: C'mon Mikiel----------There are very few if any white men living in tribal conditions as there are indigenous peoples of Africa, So America, Asia. And by the way, Australians other than Aborigines and the Maori's of New Zealand are all white.
And yes, while many Africans are extremely well educated, that is only a fraction of their total population. In terms of WORLD POPULATION, whites as a percentage of that population are better educatd. I don't think I even need a reference to back that statement up.
Well if you consider Russians, New Zealanders, Hungarians, Belgins, The Chinese and Spaniards as white, then I agree with you. The question then is do they consider themselves white?
Peace.
And yes, while many Africans are extremely well educated, that is only a fraction of their total population. In terms of WORLD POPULATION, whites as a percentage of that population are better educatd. I don't think I even need a reference to back that statement up.
Well if you consider Russians, New Zealanders, Hungarians, Belgins, The Chinese and Spaniards as white, then I agree with you. The question then is do they consider themselves white?
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345315 wrote: Well if you consider Russians, New Zealanders, Hungarians, Belgins, The Chinese and Spaniards as white, then I agree with you. The question then is do they consider themselves white?
Peace.
Mikiel-----For the past 20 years I have spent 4 to 6 months in New Zealand and Australia. My wife is a native born New Zealander and is of 100% Scottish ancestry (Mc Donald/Gowans Clan) as are many New Zealanders. Both NZ an Australia were settled by predominately English, Scottish and Irish that I believe consider themselves to be white and most assuredly represent the majority of the total population of both countries.
Belgians? Hungarians? Yes, those that I know personally consider themselves to be white.
Peace.
Mikiel-----For the past 20 years I have spent 4 to 6 months in New Zealand and Australia. My wife is a native born New Zealander and is of 100% Scottish ancestry (Mc Donald/Gowans Clan) as are many New Zealanders. Both NZ an Australia were settled by predominately English, Scottish and Irish that I believe consider themselves to be white and most assuredly represent the majority of the total population of both countries.
Belgians? Hungarians? Yes, those that I know personally consider themselves to be white.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345316 wrote: Mikiel-----For the past 20 years I have spent 4 to 6 months in New Zealand and Australia. My wife is a native born New Zealander and is of 100% Scottish ancestry (Mc Donald/Gowans Clan) as are many New Zealanders. Both NZ an Australia were settled by predominately English, Scottish and Irish that I believe consider themselves to be white and most assuredly represent the majority of the total population of both countries.
Belgians? Hungarians? Yes, those that I know personally consider themselves to be white.
Well if that be the case, then I can agree with you. I really didn't know what those people consider themselves.
Peace.
Belgians? Hungarians? Yes, those that I know personally consider themselves to be white.
Well if that be the case, then I can agree with you. I really didn't know what those people consider themselves.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345318 wrote: Well if that be the case, then I can agree with you. I really didn't know what those people consider themselves.
Peace.
And Peace be unto you my friend.
Peace.
And Peace be unto you my friend.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345314 wrote: Well that makes sense, but the 73% is an American stat, not other countries. One of the main goals of Atheist organizations that are publically involved, is to get rid of that stigma. In fact they are inviting more speakers to their meetings who are female and non white, to help change that stigma. My question was why is it that so many Atheist are white males? I think thats one of the reasons Atheist groups catch so much social negatism, because they are being compared to other negative white male groups like the clan and skinheads. They need to change that stigma and demographic, seriously do.
Theres a growing group of Atheist in the world. Heres a percentage of Atheist in other countrys;
Hungary 19% Atheist
Spain 18%
U K 20%
Luxemburg 22%
Germany 25%
Belgium 27%
Czech Republic 30%
France tops the list at 33% Atheist population.
Peace.
OK, if we take the 73% as the proportion in the US (although that figure does not appear to be in the page you linked) I ask again, what is the percentage of those considering themselves "white" in the US?
Theres a growing group of Atheist in the world. Heres a percentage of Atheist in other countrys;
Hungary 19% Atheist
Spain 18%
U K 20%
Luxemburg 22%
Germany 25%
Belgium 27%
Czech Republic 30%
France tops the list at 33% Atheist population.
Peace.
OK, if we take the 73% as the proportion in the US (although that figure does not appear to be in the page you linked) I ask again, what is the percentage of those considering themselves "white" in the US?
Radical Atheism.
Anyhow the Rally of Atheist is suffering a serious blow because of its racial demographics , many are comparing its radicalness to its " Male Whiteness". Sadly the racial issue may ring louder than the message of the group. The same thing happened to " The Black Panthers", a black group which was dominated by black males. Its message was one of unity and equal rights, but the vision of a bunch of black males carrying weapons frightened society and the groups message was muted. Also damaging Atheism, is its refusal to really be an " Organized group", not really showing combined internal structure. So the Radical Atheist are considered " Wild Loners" in a sense, and they are hurting those Atheist who are grouping somewhat.
One stigma that Radicalness carrys with it, is outcast from society, but yet radicalness started some societys, and saved many societys, and that is just historical fact.
Another stigma Atheism carrys with it, is " Darkness", some sort of evil. The Black Panthers faced this also. Because their skin was black, many whites felt that carried with it a " Sense of Darkness", or evil. Blacks were thought to be " Sub human", or ignorant. Well to many Atheism is considered in that same mannerism. When you say " I am an Atheist", its like saying your Dracula, and they throw up the cross sign at you. " Its Him, Its Him", or " Its one of Them".
And if your a Radical Atheist, its even worse.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
One stigma that Radicalness carrys with it, is outcast from society, but yet radicalness started some societys, and saved many societys, and that is just historical fact.
Another stigma Atheism carrys with it, is " Darkness", some sort of evil. The Black Panthers faced this also. Because their skin was black, many whites felt that carried with it a " Sense of Darkness", or evil. Blacks were thought to be " Sub human", or ignorant. Well to many Atheism is considered in that same mannerism. When you say " I am an Atheist", its like saying your Dracula, and they throw up the cross sign at you. " Its Him, Its Him", or " Its one of Them".
And if your a Radical Atheist, its even worse.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Bryn Mawr;1345320 wrote: OK, if we take the 73% as the proportion in the US (although that figure does not appear to be in the page you linked) I ask again, what is the percentage of those considering themselves "white" in the US?
The US is 74% white, the remaining are minorites, 12% of those black, but these demographics are changing yearly and quickly.
Peace.
The US is 74% white, the remaining are minorites, 12% of those black, but these demographics are changing yearly and quickly.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345323 wrote:
Another stigma Atheism carrys with it, is " Darkness", some sort of evil. The Black Panthers faced this also. Because their skin was black, many whites felt that carried with it a " Sense of Darkness", or evil. Blacks were thought to be " Sub human", or ignorant. Well to many Atheism is considered in that same mannerism. When you say " I am an Atheist", its like saying your Dracula, and they throw up the cross sign at you. " Its Him, Its Him", or " Its one of Them".
And if your a Radical Atheist, its even worse.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Often when Atheist go into discussion with Theist, the Theist, I think most of them, not all, have the above stigma in mind. They think they are confering with something evil. I consider this a serious lack of spiritual understanding, VERY hard to erase. The average believer looks at the discussion as a confrontation with " Darkness", and feel like they are doing Gods will to reject this darkness. And the radical Atheist is probally holding the exact same view within themselves about the Theist. So in many cases its a circle of confusion with no way out.
And I want to go into that dynamic.
Peace.
Another stigma Atheism carrys with it, is " Darkness", some sort of evil. The Black Panthers faced this also. Because their skin was black, many whites felt that carried with it a " Sense of Darkness", or evil. Blacks were thought to be " Sub human", or ignorant. Well to many Atheism is considered in that same mannerism. When you say " I am an Atheist", its like saying your Dracula, and they throw up the cross sign at you. " Its Him, Its Him", or " Its one of Them".
And if your a Radical Atheist, its even worse.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Often when Atheist go into discussion with Theist, the Theist, I think most of them, not all, have the above stigma in mind. They think they are confering with something evil. I consider this a serious lack of spiritual understanding, VERY hard to erase. The average believer looks at the discussion as a confrontation with " Darkness", and feel like they are doing Gods will to reject this darkness. And the radical Atheist is probally holding the exact same view within themselves about the Theist. So in many cases its a circle of confusion with no way out.
And I want to go into that dynamic.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345323 wrote: Anyhow the Rally of Atheist is suffering a serious blow because of its racial demographics , many are comparing its radicalness to its " Male Whiteness". Sadly the racial issue may ring louder than the message of the group. The same thing happened to " The Black Panthers", a black group which was dominated by black males. Its message was one of unity and equal rights, but the vision of a bunch of black males carrying weapons frightened society and the groups message was muted. Also damaging Atheism, is its refusal to really be an " Organized group", not really showing combined internal structure. So the Radical Atheist are considered " Wild Loners" in a sense, and they are hurting those Atheist who are grouping somewhat.
One stigma that Radicalness carrys with it, is outcast from society, but yet radicalness started some societys, and saved many societys, and that is just historical fact.
Another stigma Atheism carrys with it, is " Darkness", some sort of evil. The Black Panthers faced this also. Because their skin was black, many whites felt that carried with it a " Sense of Darkness", or evil. Blacks were thought to be " Sub human", or ignorant. Well to many Atheism is considered in that same mannerism. When you say " I am an Atheist", its like saying your Dracula, and they throw up the cross sign at you. " Its Him, Its Him", or " Its one of Them".
And if your a Radical Atheist, its even worse.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Atheists are organized Mickiel, they are organized under a softer name-------------------Secular Humanists------do a Google
One stigma that Radicalness carrys with it, is outcast from society, but yet radicalness started some societys, and saved many societys, and that is just historical fact.
Another stigma Atheism carrys with it, is " Darkness", some sort of evil. The Black Panthers faced this also. Because their skin was black, many whites felt that carried with it a " Sense of Darkness", or evil. Blacks were thought to be " Sub human", or ignorant. Well to many Atheism is considered in that same mannerism. When you say " I am an Atheist", its like saying your Dracula, and they throw up the cross sign at you. " Its Him, Its Him", or " Its one of Them".
And if your a Radical Atheist, its even worse.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Atheists are organized Mickiel, they are organized under a softer name-------------------Secular Humanists------do a Google
Radical Atheism.
A circle in communication is not always a bad thing, if it exist in marriage, then the circle forms an unbreakable barrier that outsiders cannot penertrate. It can contain the Love, not let it out, and both can enjoy the protective barrier. In the existing debate between Atheist and Theist, the circle is otherwise, because there exist no love to fertilize what is contained. So with some, they just try to push the other out of the circle. There is a bird, I forget its name, which instead of rasing its own young, it actually flys and places its young into a totally different kind of birds nest. Somehow, its always a kind of bird that is much smaller than itself. Its young then grows much bigger than the others, and consumes most of the food the new unsuspecting mother is bring to its nest. Eventually the much larger foreigner begins throwing the other young birds out of the nest, so it can get all of the food. And I see this dynamic in the Atheist theist debate.
And I want to explain that.
Peace.
And I want to explain that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345331 wrote: Atheists are organized Mickiel, they are organized under a softer name-------------------Secular Humanists------do a Google
Well I am already aware of secular humanist, still I think it will be difficult to " Sugar coat Atheism", and give it another name. But its not impossible, you know, all things are possible. The Black Panthers could have softened their name to " The Brown Panthers", and had more suscess. I quess they felt it would be some pride lost.
Peace.
Well I am already aware of secular humanist, still I think it will be difficult to " Sugar coat Atheism", and give it another name. But its not impossible, you know, all things are possible. The Black Panthers could have softened their name to " The Brown Panthers", and had more suscess. I quess they felt it would be some pride lost.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345331 wrote: Atheists are organized Mickiel, they are organized under a softer name-------------------Secular Humanists------do a Google
Actually historically the move to " Soften Atheism" was started by Charles Bradlaugh. He claimed Atheism does not state there is no God, but it merely is a lack of belief in God. An attempt to shift proof to the other side. So softer Atheism was born, Militant Atheism is here- Radical Atheism, Theoretical Atheism is here-- of the mind, and Pratical Atheism -- living as though God does not exist. I think in all its forms, its simply Atheism at its roots. And I have stated many, many times, I think its roots trace back to God.
But what is the future of Atheism?
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Actually historically the move to " Soften Atheism" was started by Charles Bradlaugh. He claimed Atheism does not state there is no God, but it merely is a lack of belief in God. An attempt to shift proof to the other side. So softer Atheism was born, Militant Atheism is here- Radical Atheism, Theoretical Atheism is here-- of the mind, and Pratical Atheism -- living as though God does not exist. I think in all its forms, its simply Atheism at its roots. And I have stated many, many times, I think its roots trace back to God.
But what is the future of Atheism?
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345334 wrote: Well I am already aware of secular humanist, still I think it will be difficult to " Sugar coat Atheism", and give it another name. But its not impossible, you know, all things are possible. The Black Panthers could have softened their name to " The Brown Panthers", and had more suscess. I quess they felt it would be some pride lost.
Peace.
Secular Humanism is hardly a softening of Atheism ------------------ just read some of their writing-----How do you soften atheism anyway?
As a Secular Humanist (Atheist) myself, I could care less about the future of Atheism. I am deeply concerned however about the spread of RADICAL ISLAM.
Peace.
Secular Humanism is hardly a softening of Atheism ------------------ just read some of their writing-----How do you soften atheism anyway?
As a Secular Humanist (Atheist) myself, I could care less about the future of Atheism. I am deeply concerned however about the spread of RADICAL ISLAM.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345341 wrote: Secular Humanism is hardly a softening of Atheism ------------------ just read some of their writing-----How do you soften atheism anyway?quote
Well I think it is. One way to soften Atheism, is to call it Secular humanism, yet as you say, the writting is still the same. You just change the title of the book, so more people will accept it and read it.
quote
As a Secular Humanist (Atheist) myself, I could care less about the future of Atheism. I am deeply concerned however about the spread of RADICAL ISLAM.
The future of Atheism is interesting to me, because I think it has none. Nor does Radical Islam. Yet I think Radical Islam will play a more important role in our future than Atheism, and I think an important role in the future middle eastern wars to come.
Peace.
Well I think it is. One way to soften Atheism, is to call it Secular humanism, yet as you say, the writting is still the same. You just change the title of the book, so more people will accept it and read it.
quote
As a Secular Humanist (Atheist) myself, I could care less about the future of Atheism. I am deeply concerned however about the spread of RADICAL ISLAM.
The future of Atheism is interesting to me, because I think it has none. Nor does Radical Islam. Yet I think Radical Islam will play a more important role in our future than Atheism, and I think an important role in the future middle eastern wars to come.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345350 wrote: The future of Atheism is interesting to me, because I think it has none. Nor does Radical Islam. Yet I think Radical Islam will play a more important role in our future than Atheism, and I think an important role in the future middle eastern wars to come.
Peace.
Atheism has no future simply because there is no concerted effort or even movement that is seeking converts. Radical Islam on the other hand is actively seeking (and getting) converts.
Peace.
Atheism has no future simply because there is no concerted effort or even movement that is seeking converts. Radical Islam on the other hand is actively seeking (and getting) converts.
Radical Atheism.
Lon;1345352 wrote: Atheism has no future simply because there is no concerted effort or even movement that is seeking converts. Radical Islam on the other hand is actively seeking (and getting) converts.
Well there is an effort, but yes, not a concerted one. And I agree that Islam is actively seeking ( and getting) converts. I think as of now, its the most Radical group on earth. Very dangerous and religion has a perverted place in their views. They are unstable, but very serious. And our future seems to be heading toward continual confrontations with such groups, which is one reason why I think Atheism has no future, it is in no way violent. The violent will take our future by force.
Peace.
Well there is an effort, but yes, not a concerted one. And I agree that Islam is actively seeking ( and getting) converts. I think as of now, its the most Radical group on earth. Very dangerous and religion has a perverted place in their views. They are unstable, but very serious. And our future seems to be heading toward continual confrontations with such groups, which is one reason why I think Atheism has no future, it is in no way violent. The violent will take our future by force.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345315 wrote: Well if you consider Russians, New Zealanders, Hungarians, Belgins, The Chinese and Spaniards as white, then I agree with you. The question then is do they consider themselves white?
Peace.
I suspect most chinese would be deeply offended to be considered white as would indians and anyone else in east asia. The catholic church would consider anyone not a catholic to be at best a heretic and as close to an atheist as to make no distinction. Many fundamentalist protestant sects hold similar views abioutthose who do not worship as they do. The vast majority of the worlds population are neither christian or muslim who cause problems worls wide out of all proportion to their number. There is no problem with atheism there is a major one with religion.
Where you have a well educated and well read population you have more who are non religious than religious. Atheiesm or non belief is not an alternative type of religion it's a fuynction of education and common sense. To have faith you need the ability to turn off your reasoning abilities.
Peace.
I suspect most chinese would be deeply offended to be considered white as would indians and anyone else in east asia. The catholic church would consider anyone not a catholic to be at best a heretic and as close to an atheist as to make no distinction. Many fundamentalist protestant sects hold similar views abioutthose who do not worship as they do. The vast majority of the worlds population are neither christian or muslim who cause problems worls wide out of all proportion to their number. There is no problem with atheism there is a major one with religion.
Where you have a well educated and well read population you have more who are non religious than religious. Atheiesm or non belief is not an alternative type of religion it's a fuynction of education and common sense. To have faith you need the ability to turn off your reasoning abilities.
Radical Atheism.
Mickiel;1345325 wrote: The US is 74% white, the remaining are minorites, 12% of those black, but these demographics are changing yearly and quickly.
Peace.
So can you quote the original stat (I still cannot find it on the page referenced). If it is 73% of atheists are white then there is no racial element to the distribution at all.
Peace.
So can you quote the original stat (I still cannot find it on the page referenced). If it is 73% of atheists are white then there is no racial element to the distribution at all.
Radical Atheism.
Bryn Mawr;1345418 wrote: So can you quote the original stat (I still cannot find it on the page referenced). If it is 73% of atheists are white then there is no racial element to the distribution at all.
Well I never said it was racial, I said I would like to know " If" it is. One could assume on the surface it may seem that way, but I really don't know. I am just curious, it maynot be a thing one can easily guage. The Black Panthers membership was 100% black, but they garnered white support, and mabye later, members, I don't know that either.
So I don't know Brian. And I don't know the original stats, not yet, I am still researching, if I find out, I'll let you know.
Peace.
Well I never said it was racial, I said I would like to know " If" it is. One could assume on the surface it may seem that way, but I really don't know. I am just curious, it maynot be a thing one can easily guage. The Black Panthers membership was 100% black, but they garnered white support, and mabye later, members, I don't know that either.
So I don't know Brian. And I don't know the original stats, not yet, I am still researching, if I find out, I'll let you know.
Peace.
Radical Atheism.
gmc;1345376 wrote: I suspect most chinese would be deeply offended to be considered white as would indians and anyone else in east asia. The catholic church would consider anyone not a catholic to be at best a heretic and as close to an atheist as to make no distinction. Many fundamentalist protestant sects hold similar views abioutthose who do not worship as they do. The vast majority of the worlds population are neither christian or muslim who cause problems worls wide out of all proportion to their number. There is no problem with atheism there is a major one with religion.
Where you have a well educated and well read population you have more who are non religious than religious. Atheiesm or non belief is not an alternative type of religion it's a fuynction of education and common sense. To have faith you need the ability to turn off your reasoning abilities.
Well I agree. But I tend to think Faith with reason ability is far better, in my view of Faith.
Peace.
Where you have a well educated and well read population you have more who are non religious than religious. Atheiesm or non belief is not an alternative type of religion it's a fuynction of education and common sense. To have faith you need the ability to turn off your reasoning abilities.
Well I agree. But I tend to think Faith with reason ability is far better, in my view of Faith.
Peace.