Ontario, murder, discuss.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:24 pm

Could we have the traditional two-minute hate flung around the thread please, it's what FG does whenever a murderer's under discussion. Reticence is not an option.

BBC News - Canada air force commander to plead guilty to murders

Here's some typical sentences to base your responses on, from earlier FG hate threads:Are there more people like that today or have there always been as many sickos and we just didn't know?

Great photo. It fits. He looks like a real wackjob.

This one sick human being.

He doesn't deserve the privilege of life.

Some of us, for the good of all, need to be removed from the planet.

Personally I find it impossible to understand how he can get up and live each morning.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:37 pm

when did he have the time to fly a plane?

I can hardly get a moment to get my grocery shopping done and my feet never leave the ground.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:40 pm

What would you like to discuss, possible excessive hormones? He admits his guilt. Whats on your mind?

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:42 pm

I could tell from his Roger Ramjet chin that he was a psychopath in disguise as a do-gooder

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:44 pm

Ahso!;1337371 wrote: What would you like to discuss, possible excessive hormones? He admits his guilt. Whats on your mind?

The ease with which FG posters berate "lowlife bottom feeder scum", and wondering whether they'll do the same in this case. And if not, finding out why not.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:46 pm

koan;1337369 wrote: when did he have the time to fly a plane?

I can hardly get a moment to get my grocery shopping done and my feet never leave the ground.
Perhaps the Air Force gives time and motion training?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:47 pm

spot;1337375 wrote: The ease with which FG posters berate "lowlife bottom feeder scum", and wondering whether they'll do the same in this case. And if not, finding out why not.Aren't the majority of those posters gone from either banning, embarrassment or boredom?

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:49 pm

There will be less haranguing as he admitted guilt so tv watchers won't get the chance to debate his character.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:56 pm

Ahso!;1337378 wrote: Aren't the majority of those posters gone from either banning, embarrassment or boredom?

You're kidding me. The site's infested. Lift the corner of a carpet sometime.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:05 pm

spot;1337365 wrote:

Some of us, for the good of all, need to be removed from the planet.

Be honest with me... was this one NOMADS?:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:07 pm

Well then we should see the little critters crawl out and take the bait, shouldn't we? But whats your motive for flushing them out? Are you looking to attempt to change them, or their minds, or are you just itching for a fight?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:07 pm

No way are two the final tally

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:09 pm

flopstock;1337386 wrote: Be honest with me... was this one NOMADS?:yh_rotfl:yh_rotflI like this one: Great photo. It fits. He looks like a real wackjob.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:12 pm

flopstock;1337388 wrote: No way are two the final tally

At least not according to the underware inventory.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:16 pm

I, for one, will never fly in a plane with the queen after reading this.

You can tell by his little, beady hat that he's a killer. Anyone who puts a canoe on their head shouldn't be allowed to fly a plane.

He's got a little smirk on his face too. Bastard.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:25 pm

flopstock;1337386 wrote: Be honest with me... was this one NOMADS?:yh_rotfl:yh_rotflClint, actually. I always enjoyed talking to Clint. It's a year since he was last on FG, it always worries me when people just evaporate like that, I hope he's alright.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:29 pm

spot;1337400 wrote: Clint, actually. I always enjoyed talking to Clint. It's a year since he was last on FG, it always worries me when people just evaporate like that, I hope he's alright.My guess is Clint went with Jester, they were buds.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:32 pm

koan;1337395 wrote: I, for one, will never fly in a plane with the queen after reading this.

You can tell by his little, beady hat that he's a killer. Anyone who puts a canoe on their head shouldn't be allowed to fly a plane.

He's got a little smirk on his face too. Bastard.I wnat to know if he's balding on top. I've heard natural balding is due to high levels of testosterone.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:35 am

Come on kiddies, if this thread doesn't get the full dose of venom, spleen and bile I'll be pointing to it every time there's another all-pile-in evisceration thread for someone the board collectively chooses to dislike.

This chap was sufficiently competent to oversee logistical support for missions to Haiti and Afghanistan for a day job, he doesn't fit into the mentally subnormal or demented category.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 am

sorry, spot, it lacks all the ingredients of a good mob lynching. Unfortunately, the lynching type don't seem to notice that the scariest people are the ones who don't fit the part. If God told him to do it via a spicy taco it would generate a bit more interest.

recovering conservative · Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:39 am

spot;1339891 wrote: Come on kiddies, if this thread doesn't get the full dose of venom, spleen and bile I'll be pointing to it every time there's another all-pile-in evisceration thread for someone the board collectively chooses to dislike.

This chap was sufficiently competent to oversee logistical support for missions to Haiti and Afghanistan for a day job, he doesn't fit into the mentally subnormal or demented category.

C'mon now! A war zone is the perfect breeding ground for sociopaths. There have been numerous stories of American soldiers committing war crimes -- now we have Canadian soldiers accused of the same. The difference with this colonel, is that he was killing people over here for fun, instead of Afghanistan, where it could have been covered up.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:02 am

recovering conservative;1339907 wrote: C'mon now! A war zone is the perfect breeding ground for sociopaths. There have been numerous stories of American soldiers committing war crimes -- now we have Canadian soldiers accused of the same. The difference with this colonel, is that he was killing people over here for fun, instead of Afghanistan, where it could have been covered up.

In other words, doing what he's been trained to do - just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:21 am

Bryn Mawr;1339909 wrote: In other words, doing what he's been trained to do - just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I suspect he's employing tactics he's been trained in but that the driving motivation for his behaviour has been an addiction to risk-taking. And, I suppose, knickers, unless his collection was just his way of keeping score.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:53 am

Ahso!;1337405 wrote: I wnat to know if he's balding on top. I've heard natural balding is due to high levels of testosterone.

Apparently so:When Williams would stand up, his face away from the ceiling camera, you’d see the top of the two men’s heads. Both were balding, which I found touching in Smyth’s case and pathetic in Williams.

Mallick: Good guys nabbed Russell Williams - thestar.com

Colonel Williams obviously had a problem which only turned criminal after he started up the chain of command. What interests me is the limited options available for him to ask for professional help during those early stages. Perhaps he felt he had no time to set aside for therapy, or thought it would damage his career to take that route.

In the long term, leaving the problem to escalate was a bad move from every point of view. Everyone should recognise compulsive antisocial behaviour as a danger to themselves that they're quite possibly going to fail to repress without advice and external monitoring.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:43 am

Ahso!;1337371 wrote: What would you like to discuss, possible excessive hormones? He admits his guilt. Whats on your mind?

exactly.

He has admitted to everything, court has shown evidence in grahpic details.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:29 am

Ahso!;1337371 wrote: What would you like to discuss, possible excessive hormones? He admits his guilt. Whats on your mind?

spot;1337375 wrote: The ease with which FG posters berate "lowlife bottom feeder scum", and wondering whether they'll do the same in this case. And if not, finding out why not.

Ahso!;1337378 wrote: Aren't the majority of those posters gone from either banning, embarrassment or boredom?

spot;1337381 wrote: You're kidding me. The site's infested. Lift the corner of a carpet sometime.

Ahso!;1337387 wrote: Well then we should see the little critters crawl out and take the bait, shouldn't we? But whats your motive for flushing them out? Are you looking to attempt to change them, or their minds, or are you just itching for a fight?

spot;1339891 wrote: Come on kiddies, if this thread doesn't get the full dose of venom, spleen and bile I'll be pointing to it every time there's another all-pile-in evisceration thread for someone the board collectively chooses to dislike.

This chap was sufficiently competent to oversee logistical support for missions to Haiti and Afghanistan for a day job, he doesn't fit into the mentally subnormal or demented category.

koan;1339896 wrote: sorry, spot, it lacks all the ingredients of a good mob lynching. Unfortunately, the lynching type don't seem to notice that the scariest people are the ones who don't fit the part. If God told him to do it via a spicy taco it would generate a bit more interest.
should i shouldn't i should i shouldn't i?? :sneaky: yep im biting! psst i think Ahso lifted the carpet and look who crawled out:) well im not sure if i fit in to that gang to be honest maybe spot can enlighten me just so i know where i stand,, and if not,, can i join your gang please? i want to be able to deride other fg posters too,,, obviously without naming names as i dont want to be infracted:sneaky: sooo let me join and i promise to do a 5 year university course and run any comments by spot before hitting submit;) hang on you are the leader aint you spot? or maybe its Ahso im not sure ,,, oh well whoever it is then:) also ,, im not at all interested in discussing the actual murder as i much prefer to **** and moan about other stuff:D

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:40 am

Oh go on Kaz, you know you want to. How about "monster", "should have been killed at birth", "hanging would be too good", stuff like that? Why are people reluctant all of a sudden to get their toes wet?

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:45 am

spot;1339976 wrote: Oh go on Kaz, you know you want to. How about "monster", "should have been killed at birth", "hanging would be too good", stuff like that? Why are people reluctant all of a sudden to get their toes wet?

go find some old ones of mine then ,, as i cant be arsed:)

also serious debaters are pooopy heads so there:rolleyes:

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:55 am

I think she already called both of us monsters, spot. What I think she missed is I was actually lightly chiding you in the beginning.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:56 am

kazalala;1339978 wrote: go find some old ones of mine then ,, as i cant be arsed:)

also serious debaters are pooopy heads so there:rolleyes:Don't let yourself feel leftout. Join in.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:05 am

kazalala;1339978 wrote: go find some old ones of mine then ,, as i cant be arsed:)

also serious debaters are pooopy heads so there:rolleyes:

Then what are mass debaters?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:59 am

I don't know what all the bickering is about, nor do I care.

I have followed this story, watched this monster confess to all of his crimes and seen live footage of all evidence.

He has just now been sentenced to life in prison.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:17 am

Bryn Mawr;1339987 wrote: Then what are mass debaters?

Steam Community :: ID :: Massdebater

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:34 am

that's just rude.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:11 am

Odie;1340017 wrote: I have followed this story, watched this monster confess to all of his crimes and seen live footage of all evidence.Can a Canadian Air Force Commander be a monster, Odie? Do you think he was a monster before he signed up or has he just turned into one since?

recovering conservative · Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:57 am

Bryn Mawr;1339909 wrote: In other words, doing what he's been trained to do - just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Certainly we need a military for protecting our coasts and the threat of foreign invasion; but since we've joined with U.S. Neoconservatives on a strategy that is really perpetual war; we have to deal with the fact that the men who are the best able to deal with combat situations are going to be the adrenaline junkies.

Most normal people will end up with some degree of PTSD if they are stuck in a war zone; so we should be avoiding getting into wars like Afghanistan, unless there is no other reasonable choice available. Now, we're stuck in wars that have no end, and the consequences include creating at least some trained sociopaths that present a danger when they finally come home.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:57 pm

spot;1340035 wrote: Can a Canadian Air Force Commander be a monster, Odie? Do you think he was a monster before he signed up or has he just turned into one since?

he's from your country and you don't know spot?

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:13 pm

Odie;1340082 wrote: he's from your country and you don't know spot?

Of course I know.

Shall we try that again, since you entirely ducked the question as usual? Read it slowly, I'll put quote marks round the bit that's all one phrase...

Can a "Canadian Air Force" Commander be a monster, Odie? Do you think he was a monster before he signed up or has he just turned into one since?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:16 pm

Of course its a choice, theres no 'monster' gene.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:06 pm

kazalala;1340022 wrote: Steam Community :: ID :: Massdebater :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

I give classes every friday morning on being obnoxious. I learnt as a child from my flute tutor Mrs Firecrumble. She taught me well and now I feel tis my duty to share her wisdom with others.

Free coffee and Danish supplied and a tour of the region fox Community.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:01 am

Ahso!;1340091 wrote: Of course its a choice, theres no 'monster' gene.

That's reasonable. Where does the choice lie, though, in the face of compulsion? There may be a choice to seek help, I'm not sure there's a choice to repress the compulsion indefinitely.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:17 am

kazalala;1340022 wrote: Steam Community :: ID :: Massdebater

I'd agree with that - he certainly appears to qualify

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:24 am

spot;1340090 wrote: Of course I know.

Shall we try that again, since you entirely ducked the question as usual? Read it slowly, I'll put quote marks round the bit that's all one phrase...

Can a "Canadian Air Force" Commander be a monster, Odie? Do you think he was a monster before he signed up or has he just turned into one since?

Here's the thing spot, like yourself and a few others that take much pleasure in mocking, harassing and stalking me, I don't have to answer to you or anyone.

If you had of read my post yesterday on his sentence, that's all I came here to say.

It's over, he's been sentenced, so try and a grip.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:37 am

Odie;1340179 wrote: Here's the thing spot, like yourself and a few others that take much pleasure in mocking, harassing and stalking me, I don't have to answer to you or anyone.

If you had of read my post yesterday on his sentence, that's all I came here to say.

It's over, he's been sentenced, so try and a grip.

I was interested in exploring your reasons. You invariably shy away in terror at the prospect of discussing them. I reckon that makes them unjustifiable, don't you? It's not that you don't have to answer, it's that you don't have an answer.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:57 am

spot;1340141 wrote: That's reasonable. Where does the choice lie, though, in the face of compulsion? There may be a choice to seek help, I'm not sure there's a choice to repress the compulsion indefinitely.Can't say I know for sure - thats probably best left to Williams to try and answer. Obviously each physical step is a conscious choice and the willingness to entertain the ideas are choices as well.

I don't know about the underlying motivation though. Murdering his raped victims and wagging his penis around may suggest to some it could be due to rejection from his mother; genetics may suggest a close DNA to the common Chimpanzee; perhaps hes a control freak as that one lady suggested; military conditioning having brought out a latent behavior as I believe you've mentioned....and on, and on we go.

Personally, I think it could be any one or combination of the lot, but I'd add 1) early separation from the parents, mainly the mother; 2) put in a competitive school environment far too early for this individual; 3) he definitely seems to lack empathy. (Some of these overlap with the previous list I think)

But I guess we can simply sum it all up by labeling Williams an a$$hole, couldn't we.

recovering conservative · Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:01 pm

Ahso!;1340091 wrote: Of course its a choice, theres no 'monster' gene.

Actually, there may very well be a "monster" gene; since neuroscience research on dangerous psychopaths is revealing that they have dramatically different brain function than normal people. The brain dysfunctions not only affect the ability to feel emotions, they impair the ability to understand the emotional state of others, and the lack of proper emotional feedback makes it more difficult to learn from past mistakes.

There are different physical causes of psychopathy that have been observed. For some, the damage is to the Amygdala (one of the older regions of the brain, close to the brain stem -- it generates emotional responses such as fear, anger, love...yes love!, and happiness, to sensory stimuli); others have been shown to have significant damage at mid-brain level, in the Anterior cingulate and the Insula (which helps people regulate emotional states and control impulses, and recognize violations of social norms), and if there is damage to higher brain regions, such as the Orbital frontal cortex (higher brain regions that are involved in sophisticated decision-making), their sensitivity to risk, reward and punishment is impaired. This was the damage suffered by the first patient who pioneered brain research back in 1848 -- Phineas Gage - a railway worker who survived having a railway spike accidentally driven through the front part of his skull. Gage became a classic 'acquired' psychopath, since he was described as very normal before the accident, and the injury dramatically changed his entire personality. The pertinent facts are described here in Neurophilosophy. There are many other cases of personality change and antisocial behaviour after a significant brain injury, so it's something to watch out for in those situations.

But, in most cases, the estimated 2% of the general population who are estimated to make up 20 to 30% of prison populations, are psychopaths mainly because of genetic factors (genes are responsible for about 50% of why we are the way we are) and environment -- young children under extreme stress, such as suffered under emotional and physical abuse show damage in the paralymbic system that make up the brain components which produce and evaluate emotional information. Even "shaken baby" syndrome has been implicated in damage to the neural connections between the Amygdala and higher cortical regions.

So, the takeaway is that if we do a scientific study of psychopathy, we find something much more than bad behaviour. We find a range of neurological impairments that cause a range of symptoms lumped together as psychopathic. Most of the time, a psychopath who is prone to violent outbursts and ends up becoming a criminal, is not smart enough and too impulsive to do the kind of planning that is exhibited in these crimes.

What really has me concerned is that if we are worried about potentially dangerous risk and adrenaline junkies, the last thing we should be having are long running, neverending wars that drag on and provide an opportunity for a criminal psychopath to excel and perfect his skills. Even if he doesn't come home and become a killer, as in this case, we have lots of evidence from charges that have been laid regarding a few warfront incidents already, that we are providing a theater for sadists and potential serial killers to operate. That's a good enough reason to me, why you don't go to war for flimsy reasons and have a damn good idea how long you plan to be there!

If you look at places in the world that have undergone longrunning civil wars...such as what's going on along the Congo/Rwanda border area right now, we find the official war is over, and yet there is still rape, pillage and murder going on! It's not much of a stretch to conclude that many men who fought for years on a battlefield that was sanctioned by leaders, cannot stop what they were doing just because the leaders have decided that the war is over.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:26 pm

Did you get all that, Spot?

RC, do you by any chance spend a lot of time at Holiday Inn's? *kidding*

Thank you for the in-dept explanation.

I meant to include in my previous post that the 'monster gene' post was actually a tongue-in-cheek reply keeping pace with the tenor of some of the recent threads. But hey, I'll take whatever I get out of it.

recovering conservative · Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:35 pm

Ahso!;1340239 wrote: Did you get all that, Spot?

RC, do you by any chance spend a lot of time at Holiday Inn's? *kidding*

Thank you for the in-dept explanation.

I meant to include in my previous post that the 'monster gene' post was actually a tongue-in-cheek reply keeping pace with the tenor of some of the recent threads. But hey, I'll take whatever I get out of it.

It is a serious question though; since others have mused about what makes someone like this tick, and whether they are born that way or just decide to be evil. I had some thoughts that I wanted to put out about what I've been reading on the subject of psychopathy, and my uneasy feeling that keeping wars going serves as a breeding ground for recruiting, training and promoting 'monsters.' I was looking for an opening to unload all this, and your point about a monster gene provided a good opportunity.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:48 pm

And well worth reading it was too, thank you for spending the time getting your ideas straight.

I'm reasonably sure the Colonel would have avoided his current infamy had he been trained to recognise when to ask for help, and had that help been available without detriment to his career. I have a measure of sympathy for him, it would have taken a saint to have asked for help without such a support framework.

recovering conservative · Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:08 am

spot;1340323 wrote: And well worth reading it was too, thank you for spending the time getting your ideas straight.
Thanks! I'm glad you found it helpful.

I'm reasonably sure the Colonel would have avoided his current infamy had he been trained to recognise when to ask for help, and had that help been available without detriment to his career. I have a measure of sympathy for him, it would have taken a saint to have asked for help without such a support framework.
From what I've read of the case, I don't have sympathy for him, and it's likely that it makes no difference to him what others feel about him anyway. His crimes, along with his bizarre behaviour during the interrogation, are good indications that he was a psychopath who had to keep pushing further and further -- going from sexual fetishist to sexual predator to sadistic killer. It's possible that he could have sought help to keep from making the next step; but psychopaths are motivated by their gratifications, and it's not likely any therapy could have kept him from getting bored with his kinky fetishes, and wanting to progress to something more disturbing.

He needed stronger and stronger stimuli to get aroused, and like the majority of these sexual predators, he had the need to keep trophies -- first, his stupid snapshots, graduating to videos of his sex crimes and murders.

On the other hand, I don't see much worth in the handwringing editorials being published in newspapers across Canada this week. Most of them are going to treat him as a bad apple, and continue on with their war heroes b.s., and completely ignore the question about whether keeping active wars going is encouraging the development of these kind of soldiers. One of the stupider editorials in a conservative paper from Alberta (no surprise) blames his crimes on pornography -- Williams nurtured his fetish until it grew into a monster, and takes Ted Bundy's final statements that pornography made him a serial killer, at face value! Our local conservative rag literally gives a detailed play by play of the video tapes he made of the rapes and murders of two women: Col. Russell Williams, you are a bastard I'll expect more editorials condemning pornography and sexual immorality to follow in the coming days!