Understanding the Book of Revelation

Discuss Prophecies and Prophets. From the Ancients to Modern Day Soothsayers.
ledroyjr
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by ledroyjr »

Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him.

Part One:

Chapter One Vs. 1-8:

This Revelation is not written ( or addressed ) to the Church, any assembly of God, the body of Christ, as such, as are Paul’s Epistles. The Revelation is a prophecy, testified to the churches, for their information as to “the things that were, the things that are, the things that are to come,” and for a warning and correction.

Rev. 1:1 Revelation is a translation of the Greek word “apokalypsis” meaning an unveiling or a disclosure. The revelation was given to John to communicate to others, His servants (Jesus Christ’s) and tells us what must soon take place. The word soon “en tachei” means that the action will be sudden when it comes, not necessarily that it will occur immediately. But that once the end-times events begin, they will occur in rapid succession [Ref. Luke 18:8; Acts 12:7; 22:18; 25:4; Rom. 16:20). The words, He made known (Jesus Christ), are from the Greek verb “esemanen,” meaning to make known by signs or symbols, the verb also includes communication by words. We do not have the name of the angel messenger given to us here, we do know from other scriptures that Gabriel has been the chosen messenger [Reg. Dan. 8:16; 9:21-22; Luke 1: 26-31). John a bond-servant “doulos” means slave is the term also used by Paul, James, Peter and Jude in speaking of their positions as God’s servants [Ref. Rom. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Titus 1:1; James 1:1; 2Pet. 1:1; Jude 1]

Rev. 1:3 God the Father provides a blessing on each individual who reads the book as well as on those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it. This applies to all of us as the implication is that a reader will read this message aloud to an audience. Not only is there a blessing for the reader and the hearers, but there is also a blessing for those who respond in obedience.

John concluded this verse with “the time is near.” The word time “kairos” refers to a period of time, that is, the time of the end [Ref. Dan. 8:17; 11:35, 40; 12:4,9). The “end time,” as a time period, is mentioned in Revelation 11:18 and 12:12. In Revelation 12:14 the word “time” means a year [Ref. Dan. 7:25] and the phrase “time, times and half a time,” to explain the meaning one year “time” plus two years “times” plus six months “half a time,” totaling three and one-half years; the length of the time of “the end.” Revelation 1:3 includes the first of seven beatitudes in the book of Revelation. Ref. For the time is near or at hand; the biblical term “at hand” is never a positive affirmation that the person or thing said to be near will immediately appear, but only that the person or thing has the quality of immanency. When Christ appeared to the Jewish people (first advent), the next thing, in the order of revelation as they understood it, should have been the setting up of the Davidic Kingdom. Yet God had predicted the rejection and crucifixion of the king (Jesus Christ) [Ref Psm. 22; Isa.53]. The long period of the secret form of the kingdom, the world wide preaching of the cross, and the out-calling of the church was as yet locked up in the secret counsels of God [Ref. Eph. 3:3-12; Mt. 13:11-17]

Rev. 1:4 John specifies the destination of this book, to the seven churches in Asia Minor a Roman province. The words grace and peace concisely summarize both a Christian’s standing before God and his experience. Grace “charis” and peace “eirene;” grace speaks of God’s attitude toward believers and peace speaks both of their standing with God and their experience of divine peace. John gives us a clue to the nature of the book or outline of the book as grace and peace is from the one who is, and who was and who is to come [Ref. Rev 1:8]; remember in vs. 1 we were told that He made it known by means: of making known by signs or symbols, this last phrase falls into this category which we will get into more a little later. The seven spirits refers to the Holy Spirit and His attributes to the believer [Ref Isa. 11:2-3].

Rev. 1:5 And from Jesus Christ as the source of the revelation to be given. He is the faithful witness the first born from the dead [Ref. Col.1:], referring to His historic resurrection at His first advent; and the ruler of the kings of the earth, indicating His prophetic role after His second coming. We see here that Christ’s resurrection was from out of the dead. As the “firstborn.” He is the first to be resurrected with an everlasting body, there will also be those after; those resurrected at the end of the church age [Ref. Philp. 3:10-12]. The tribulation holy ones [Ref. Rev. 20:5-6], and the wicked dead of all ages [Ref. Rev. 20:12-13] encompass the resurrections. In His dying on the cross Christ who loves us is the One who freed us from our sins by His shed blood.

Rev. 1:6 John is telling us here that believers are now a kingdom of priests with the purpose now and forever of serving God. As John shows us here he demonstrates that we should always be expressing praise and worship to God the Father forever and ever. Amen (literally meaning “so be it”).

Rev. 1:7 Readers of these scriptures are being told to look for His coming in the clouds which will be at His second advent to the earth, this will be during the tribulation period as told to His disciples [Ref. Acts 1:9-11]. We know that the literal executioners and rejecters of Christ are now dead and will not be resurrected until after the Millennium, but the godly remnant of Israel “will look on Him, the One they have pierced [Ref. Zech. 12:10]. This godly remnant will represent the nation Israel during the Tribulation period.

Christ’s second advent, however, will be visible to the entire world including unbelievers, in contrast to His first advent at His birth and in contrast with the future rapture “caught up” “harpazo” Greek word meaning “to siege”, catch away”, “pluck”, “pull”, “take by force” [Ref. 1Thess. 4:14-18; 1Cor. 15:51-53] of the church, which probably will not be visible to the earth as a whole. John expresses “so be it” (amen).

Rev. 1:8 John here tells us that Christ says that He is the “Alpha and the Omega” the eternal One. He is the One who is, and who was, and who is to come, the “Almighty”, “pantokrator” “the all powerful One”. Here in Revelation the all-bountiful and all-sufficient God is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ.
gmc
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by gmc »

Don;t you think it's about time people got away from believing in this bronze age mythology?
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Post by spot »

Christianity's in meltdown. The Web's brought this minority of Christ-bitten fanatics to the attention of ordinary believers. Once one could go a lifetime within the Christian tradition without feeling embarrassment, I don't think it'll ever be possible again. There may not be many of these fundamentalists[1] but they're disproportionately shrill.



[1] outside of the USA, anyhow.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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Post by hoppy »

spot;1287301 wrote: Christianity's in meltdown. The Web's brought this minority of Christ-bitten fanatics to the attention of ordinary believers. Once one could go a lifetime within the Christian tradition without feeling embarrassment, I don't think it'll ever be possible again. There may not be many of these fundamentalists[1] but they're disproportionately shrill.



[1] outside of the USA, anyhow.


Dear old spot, you and your kind have been forecast over a thousand+ years ago. And as if by magic, there you are.

Passage: 2 Peter 3 (ESV Bible Online)
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Post by spot »

hoppy;1287308 wrote: Dear old spot, you and your kind have been forecast over a thousand+ years ago. And as if by magic, there you are.

Passage: 2 Peter 3 (ESV Bible Online)


scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing?

What you're ignoring is that "the last days" have been regularly predicted by these literalists for the entire 2000 year period. The 18th century was awash with Now Is The Time mongering, the 19th more so and the 20th has been flooded with it. So was the 17th century. And the 11th and 14th. Would you like some examples? 220 Dates for the End of the world!!! Date Setters! has lots.

Let's face it, if it didn't happen within living memory of the crucifixion then it's not going to.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by hoppy »

spot;1287312 wrote: scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing?

What you're ignoring is that "the last days" have been regularly predicted by these literalists for the entire 2000 year period. The 18th century was awash with Now Is The Time mongering, the 19th more so and the 20th has been flooded with it. So was the 17th century. And the 11th and 14th. Would you like some examples? 220 Dates for the End of the world!!! Date Setters! has lots.

Let's face it, if it didn't happen within living memory of the crucifixion then it's not going to.


The Bible does not predict when the last days will be and even warns against trying to. A lot of misguided individuals think they know wnen the end is about to arrive, however.

Matthew 24:36
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Post by spot »

hoppy;1287315 wrote: The Bible does not predict when the last days will be and even warns against trying to. A lot of misguided individuals think they know wnen the end is about to arrive, however.

Matthew 24:36


Then why did you say I was come in the last days with scoffing?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by hoppy »

spot;1287318 wrote: Then why did you say I was come in the last days with scoffing?


Everything eventually comes to an end. You are obviously one of those who don't believe that.
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Post by gmc »

hoppy;1287320 wrote: Everything eventually comes to an end. You are obviously one of those who don't believe that.


Has it never occurred to you that believing the bible is the immutable word of god is absurd?
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Post by spot »

hoppy;1287320 wrote: Everything eventually comes to an end. You are obviously one of those who don't believe that.


If my kind kind have been forecast over a thousand+ years ago and it's been inaccurately applied to every scoffer since, then it 's a pretty ineffective forecast and equally unlikely to apply to me.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by hoppy »

spot;1287322 wrote: If my kind kind have been forecast over a thousand+ years ago and it's been inaccurately applied to every scoffer since, then it 's a pretty ineffective forecast and equally unlikely to apply to me.


I think the Bible pretty accurately describes humans and predicts their behavior.:)
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Post by spot »

hoppy;1287341 wrote: I think the Bible pretty accurately describes humans and predicts their behavior.:)


It's rather more relevant to ask whether the Bible pretty accurately describes God and predicts His behaviour, wouldn't you say?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by hoppy »

spot;1287403 wrote: It's rather more relevant to ask whether the Bible pretty accurately describes God and predicts His behaviour, wouldn't you say?


Maybe you should be worried.:-3
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Post by gmc »

hoppy;1287341 wrote: I think the Bible pretty accurately describes humans and predicts their behavior.:)


So if a religious leader tells an individual you the bible says you must sacrifice yourself for god what would you predict their behaviour outcome would be?
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Post by hoppy »

gmc;1287434 wrote: So if a religious leader tells an individual you the bible says you must sacrifice yourself for god what would you predict their behaviour outcome would be?


Everything is pretty well covered in the Bible. Seek, and ye shall find.:)



2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
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Post by gmc »

hoppy;1287447 wrote: Everything is pretty well covered in the Bible. Seek, and ye shall find.:)



2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.


Good doge of the question:D

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


So what are you going to do about all those protestant/papes/musselmen what will you predict someone will do when their bible tells them to kill all those who do not worship as you do?
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Post by hoppy »

gmc;1287462 wrote: Good doge of the question:D



So what are you going to do about all those protestant/papes/musselmen what will you predict someone will do when their bible tells them to kill all those who do not worship as you do?


Your talking old testament. The new testament teaches love and forgiveness.:)
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Post by gmc »

hoppy;1287467 wrote: Your talking old testament. The new testament teaches love and forgiveness.:)


In that case I don't see many of the fundamentalist disposition type of christian that take the new testament to heart and miss out altogether on the bit about tolerance and not being too quick to judge.
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Post by hoppy »

gmc;1287668 wrote: In that case I don't see many of the fundamentalist disposition type of christian that take the new testament to heart and miss out altogether on the bit about tolerance and not being too quick to judge.


Even believers are still only human. Still have weaknesses, same as everyone. What, you expected believers to be perfect and God-like? Silly person.:yh_rotfl
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Post by gmc »

hoppy;1287671 wrote: Even believers are still only human. Still have weaknesses, same as everyone. What, you expected believers to be perfect and God-like? Silly person.:yh_rotfl


No I expect them to be gullible and irrational but nowadays you can't call religion a load of bunkum without someone claiming they are offended and you shouldn't say things like that. Although I do find the true believers like to sit and argue endlessly about their faith-the nutters just lash out-especially when it dawns on them you have actually given the matter a great deal of consideration. You are clearly one of the former. I just do not understand why anyone actually believes the bible is the immutable word of god and why a monotheistic religion so inimical to equality and liberty should have so many adherents in a western culture intrinsically egalitarian in nature.
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Post by Ahso! »

hoppy;1287671 wrote: Even believers are still only human. Still have weaknesses, same as everyone. What, you expected believers to be perfect and God-like? Silly person.:yh_rotfl
But isn't the idea to become baptized with the Holy Spirit and therefore forward learn to walk in the spirit allowing the spirit to essentially take over your life and live more and more Godly? I believe I recall the christian bible claiming that those baptized are in the world but not of the world. Do i have that wrong?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by hoppy »

But isn't the idea to become baptized with the Holy Spirit and therefore forward learn to walk in the spirit allowing the spirit to essentially take over your life and live more and more Godly?

We're supposed to try. But thats not easy. It's far more easy, and fun for some, to scoff.:)
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Post by Ahso! »

hoppy;1287719 wrote: But isn't the idea to become baptized with the Holy Spirit and therefore forward learn to walk in the spirit allowing the spirit to essentially take over your life and live more and more Godly?

We're supposed to try. But thats not easy. It's far more easy, and fun for some, to scoff.:)Not so according to my understanding. Rather than try to be holy, you are supposed to allow the spirit to make you holy. Thats where the saying "let go and let god" comes from. If I went and got it for you would you then believe me, or would I be spinning my wheels?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by hoppy »

Ahso!;1287721 wrote: Not so according to my understanding. Rather than try to be holy, you are supposed to allow the spirit to make you holy. Thats where the saying "let go and let god" comes from. If I went and got it for you would you then believe me, or would I be spinning my wheels?


Isn't that one way of trying? Doesn't God help those who help themselves?
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Post by Ahso! »

hoppy;1287726 wrote: Isn't that one way of trying?According to the christian bible there is no trying - only acceptance of gods gift and sacrifice. Its called grace, thats what it means.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

hoppy;1287726 wrote: Doesn't God help those who help themselves?I'd like you to show me that one in the bible.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by hoppy »

Ain't in the Bible. Ben Franklin said it. Would he lie?:)
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Post by Ahso! »

According to the Apostle Paul, God gave him a "thorn in his side" (poor eye sight) because he tried to live by what he thought God was saying rather than just be led by the spirit. He said he had a habit of fooling himself into thinking his voice was gods voice, so god dealt with him quite harshly because he had asked god to.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

Fiona Apple
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Post by hoppy »

I look at it to mean God helps those who help themselves, by believing and trusting in God.:)
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Post by Ahso! »

hoppy;1287744 wrote: I look at it to mean God helps those who help themselves, by believing and trusting in God.:)Well thats fine with me and it is of course why there are different denominations of christianity. But doesn't it matter what Jesus as well as his apostles were recorded as saying? To me you can't just quote the bible when its convenient, and then deny it when its convenient,

Jesus said there are only 2 ways to know his followers;

1) By his (Jesus') word(s).

2) By their works (those who are led by the Holy Spirit will live holy lives).

Are you claiming this is not true or just not Jesus' words?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

Fiona Apple
ledroyjr
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Post by ledroyjr »

gmc;1287274 wrote: Don;t you think it's about time people got away from believing in this bronze age mythology?


There is no mythology as for as the written Word of God, there is the possibility of not understanding what the message being presented is saying. If you can have an open mind and read what I have presented to those that read here, then the Word of God becomes very clear as to the warnings God is presenting to the Gentile population for the end of times that is about to come to a close.

Sincerely
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Post by ledroyjr »

Ahso!;1287715 wrote: But isn't the idea to become baptized with the Holy Spirit and therefore forward learn to walk in the spirit allowing the spirit to essentially take over your life and live more and more Godly? I believe I recall the christian bible claiming that those baptized are in the world but not of the world. Do i have that wrong?


No you do not have that wrong, but that is a small part of the picture of what God has for us to learn and understand from the whole of the scriptures.
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Post by Ahso! »

ledroyjr;1287772 wrote: No you do not have that wrong, but that is a small part of the picture of what God has for us to learn and understand from the whole of the scriptures.And how long have you been studying the bible?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by gmc »

ledroyjr;1287769 wrote: There is no mythology as for as the written Word of God, there is the possibility of not understanding what the message being presented is saying. If you can have an open mind and read what I have presented to those that read here, then the Word of God becomes very clear as to the warnings God is presenting to the Gentile population for the end of times that is about to come to a close.

Sincerely


How about the myth that it is actually the word of god in the first place? How anyone who studies the history of religion and the bible can believe it is the immutable word of god completely defies all reason.
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Post by hoppy »

I've read many books on religion and Christianity. Read way more than I can remember, unfortunately. Somewhere among those dusty volumes I remember reading that the Christianity of 2000 years ago isn't the same as the christianity we know today. That the true christianity was hijacked somewhere in time and corrupted into what we now have. Perhaps someone more expert on religions can elaborate on this.:)
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Post by ledroyjr »

Ahso!;1287775 wrote: And how long have you been studying the bible?


About 30 years, started out investigating the Greek text and letting the Holy Spirit guide me into the understanding of the Scriptures.
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Post by ledroyjr »

gmc;1287805 wrote: How about the myth that it is actually the word of god in the first place? How anyone who studies the history of religion and the bible can believe it is the immutable word of god completely defies all reason.


When you are at a point in your life that the Lord can work with you and you take the time to study the Scriptures the Holy Spirit will show you through reading the Scriptures where the prophesies of hundreds of years before actually come to revelation and only the God who planned all things as we see them could have instituted the writing of the Scriptures into the minds of the men and women who wrote them for us to read and understand by the revealing of them to us by the Holy Spirit.
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Post by gmc »

ledroyjr;1287870 wrote: When you are at a point in your life that the Lord can work with you and you take the time to study the Scriptures the Holy Spirit will show you through reading the Scriptures where the prophesies of hundreds of years before actually come to revelation and only the God who planned all things as we see them could have instituted the writing of the Scriptures into the minds of the men and women who wrote them for us to read and understand by the revealing of them to us by the Holy Spirit.


If you only read one book you will end up with some very strange ideas.

only the God who planned all things as we see them could have instituted the writing of the Scriptures into the minds of the men and women who wrote them for us to read and understand by the revealing of them to us by the Holy Spirit


That is complete fantasy-or wishful thinking. You might believe you have come across a great truth I don't share that belief. Don't bother quoting scripture since i reject that belief your "authority" is meaningless. I have incidentally read them. i find many religious people assume sceptics are only so because they haven't given the matter any thought.
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Post by ledroyjr »

gmc;1287998 wrote: If you only read one book you will end up with some very strange ideas.



That is complete fantasy-or wishful thinking. You might believe you have come across a great truth I don't share that belief. Don't bother quoting scripture since i reject that belief your "authority" is meaningless. I have incidentally read them. i find many religious people assume sceptics are only so because they haven't given the matter any thought.


Your loss! But give me the same courtesy and don't quote your belief toward my thread as it is meaningless.
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Post by gmc »

ledroyjr;1288035 wrote: Your loss! But give me the same courtesy and don't quote your belief toward my thread as it is meaningless.


If you post on a discussion forum don't complain if people disagree with you. the likeliest explanation for the book of revelation is it is a collection of stories from the past of people describing things that happened that they couldn't understand. If you don't understand something some uberbeing playing with you is can seem a reasonable explanation and that you have somehow offended them possible-unless you stop and think about it.

Look at what happened in tahiti-if that was a stone age community it happened to how do you think it would be explained fifty or a hundred years later? Who knows maybe a thousand year from the lord of the rings and star trek will be rival religions dim memories of a people who for some reason blew themselves back to the stone age.

It's fantasy, like that theory some religious sect had that believed if they killed themselves they could hop on a passing comet and go to heaven. If all you study is one text you end up with very strange ideas and convince yourself it is some great truth-even worse if you convince yourself some leader has all the answers and no longer question.

It's a dangerous fantasy to the rest of us if you get idiots in positions of power that actually believe this crap.
ledroyjr
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by ledroyjr »

gmc;1288063 wrote: If you post on a discussion forum don't complain if people disagree with you. the likeliest explanation for the book of revelation is it is a collection of stories from the past of people describing things that happened that they couldn't understand. If you don't understand something some uberbeing playing with you is can seem a reasonable explanation and that you have somehow offended them possible-unless you stop and think about it.

Look at what happened in tahiti-if that was a stone age community it happened to how do you think it would be explained fifty or a hundred years later? Who knows maybe a thousand year from the lord of the rings and star trek will be rival religions dim memories of a people who for some reason blew themselves back to the stone age.

It's fantasy, like that theory some religious sect had that believed if they killed themselves they could hop on a passing comet and go to heaven. If all you study is one text you end up with very strange ideas and convince yourself it is some great truth-even worse if you convince yourself some leader has all the answers and no longer question.

It's a dangerous fantasy to the rest of us if you get idiots in positions of power that actually believe this crap.


I was not the one that complained, asked that scripture not be quoted too! I just asked for the same courtesy if we are not allowed to quote you should not be allowed to quote your belief either in response to our conversation as respectable people.
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by yaaarrrgg »

ledroyjr;1287229 wrote:

Rev. 1:1 Revelation is a translation of the Greek word “apokalypsis” meaning an unveiling or a disclosure. The revelation was given to John to communicate to others, His servants (Jesus Christ’s) and tells us what must soon take place. The word soon “en tachei” means that the action will be sudden when it comes, not necessarily that it will occur immediately. But that once the end-times events begin, they will occur in rapid succession [Ref. Luke 18:8; Acts 12:7; 22:18; 25:4; Rom. 16:20). The words, He made known (Jesus Christ), are from the Greek verb “esemanen,” meaning to make known by signs or symbols, the verb also includes communication by words. We do not have the name of the angel messenger given to us here, we do know from other scriptures that Gabriel has been the chosen messenger [Reg. Dan. 8:16; 9:21-22; Luke 1: 26-31). John a bond-servant “doulos” means slave is the term also used by Paul, James, Peter and Jude in speaking of their positions as God’s servants [Ref. Rom. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Titus 1:1; James 1:1; 2Pet. 1:1; Jude 1]




Saying "this means" in biblical exegesis is like using scissors on a puzzle piece that doesn't fit. :)
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by gmc »

ledroyjr;1288199 wrote: I was not the one that complained, asked that scripture not be quoted too! I just asked for the same courtesy if we are not allowed to quote you should not be allowed to quote your belief either in response to our conversation as respectable people.


The bible is a collection of stories within which there is some historical events that can be objectively identified as such. As such it is hardly an "authority" on anything. The book of revelations is also a collection of stories. A prediction that only becomes obvious after the fact is not a prediction it is a coincidence. The danger is when you get people who believe the end of times mythology and take steps to make it actually happen and allow their belief in it to get in the way of common sense and read more significance into events than there actually is. It is also a belief that the vast majority of the people on the planet have not even heard of never mind believe in.

You should try and understand it is nonsense rather than look for meaning in it that doesn't exist.
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by ledroyjr »

yaaarrrgg;1288209 wrote: Saying "this means" in biblical exegesis is like using scissors on a puzzle piece that doesn't fit. :)


Not actually, " this means" that because the English words have "various meaning" and the Greek has "specific meaning" that you have clarity if you give the correct meaning for the the translated word in scripture.
ledroyjr
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by ledroyjr »

gmc;1288274 wrote: The bible is a collection of stories within which there is some historical events that can be objectively identified as such. As such it is hardly an "authority" on anything. The book of revelations is also a collection of stories. A prediction that only becomes obvious after the fact is not a prediction it is a coincidence. The danger is when you get people who believe the end of times mythology and take steps to make it actually happen and allow their belief in it to get in the way of common sense and read more significance into events than there actually is. It is also a belief that the vast majority of the people on the planet have not even heard of never mind believe in.

You should try and understand it is nonsense rather than look for meaning in it that doesn't exist.


This is an example of the exact problem for if there is an understanding of the Book one would not speak so of the book for the book is exact in its place in scripture. It is not a group of stories it has reference to the way things have happened are happening and will happen for Chpt. 1 is about what has taken place already, Chpt. 2 and 3 about what is taking place for the last 2000 + years and will end when the time is of God's good pleasure, and chpt. 4 through 22 are future and will take place as scripture reveals. If you will be kind enough to read what I present you, you will see this as we go on with the subject.
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by yaaarrrgg »

ledroyjr;1288296 wrote: Not actually, " this means" that because the English words have "various meaning" and the Greek has "specific meaning" that you have clarity if you give the correct meaning for the the translated word in scripture.


You will "soon" understand what I'm saying. Of course I must clarify that "soon" means "likely never" in Greek. :)
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by Saint_ »

gmc;1288274 wrote: The bible is a collection of stories within which there is some historical events that can be objectively identified as such. As such it is hardly an "authority" on anything.


I both agree and disagree. The Bible is NOT scientific fact. On the other hand, it IS a pretty good "authority" on how to live you life peacefully and meaningfully.;)
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by Ahso! »

Saint_;1288322 wrote: I both agree and disagree. The Bible is NOT scientific fact. On the other hand, it IS a pretty good "authority" on how to live you life peacefully and meaningfully.;)Anything is!

Where did GMC mention science?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by Saint_ »

gmc;1288274 wrote: some historical events that can be objectively identified as such.


Right here.:D History is a science.
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Understanding the Book of Revelation

Post by Ahso! »

Saint_;1288363 wrote: Right here.:D History is a science.So its not historical at all?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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