miracles

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:04 am

do you believe in miracles?

have you had one happen to you?

has someone you know had a miracle happen to them?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:15 am

Yes. It's a miracle I'm still here :yh_rotfl

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:20 am

Jazzy;1271686 wrote: Yes. It's a miracle I'm still here :yh_rotfl

crybaby!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

this should make you happy.:sneaky:

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:22 am

What's a miracle?

Post by **spot** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:40 am

Ahso!;1271691 wrote: What's a miracle?

You just beat me to it, RJ.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:46 am

Odie;1271681 wrote: do you believe in miracles?

have you had one happen to you?

has someone you know had a miracle happen to them?

My Mother and I were just having a conversation (with a non-believer that I'm trying to convert :wah: ) about faith and miracles, just last weekend, coincidence? There are many who believe that as many as three medical miracles (occurrences that medical science has no explanation for) have occurred with me during my lifetime. I'm not sure, if I were Catholic, that these would qualify me for sainthood, but... I will say that I've always felt that an undue pressure to succeed has been unfairly placed upon me due to this and I come from a family that already expects greatness from every family member.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:46 am

spot;1271692 wrote: You just beat me to it, RJ.That could be considered a miracle, I guess.

Post by **spot** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:48 am

G-man;1271694 wrote: There are many who believe that as many as three medical miracles have occurred with me during my lifetime. I'm not sure, if I were Catholic, that these would qualify me for sainthood

It's whoever you pray to that gets canonised, not the supplicant.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:51 am

G-man;1271694 wrote: My Mother and I were just having a conversation (with a non-believer that I'm trying to convert :wah: ) about faith and miracles, just last weekend, coincidence? There are many who believe that as many as three medical miracles have occurred with me during my lifetime. I'm not sure, if I were Catholic, that these would qualify me for sainthood, but... I will say that I've always felt that an undue pressure to succeed has been unfairly placed upon me due to this and I come from a family that already expects greatness from every family member.I don't think I understand the gist of your post, but I'll ask the following question anyway.

To succeed in or at what?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:52 am

Ahso!;1271691 wrote: What's a miracle?

A miracle is an amazing or wonderful occurrence. It is an event or happening that manifests a supernatural act of a divine agent. It is when the impossible happens or when our prayer has been answered.

When my dad was dying of cancer and the family was called to get there before he was taken, I was hours away. I called the hospital and asked them to please let my dad know I was on my way. The doctor told me that there was no way he would survive until I got there. The priest was in the room at that point giving my dad his last rites and the life support system had been shut off. I prayed hard that he would wait for me and just hold on a little while longer. I got there as soon as I could and when I walked in his room thought I was to late. I held his hand and cried. He gave my hand a squeeze and a tear trickled down his face. He passed away seconds later. To me it was a miracle that somehow he was able to survive long enough for us to say goodbye to each other.

Post by **spot** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:56 am

Jazzy;1271698 wrote: It is an event or happening that manifests a supernatural act of a divine agent.

That's a requirement for an event to be a miracle? in that case there aren't any. Every event is natural though some can be unexpected or unlikely.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:00 pm

Ahso!;1271697 wrote: I don't think I understand the gist of your post, but I'll ask the following question anyway.

To succeed in or at what?

To be successful in general, based upon individual gifts. My family is big on discovering talents in family members... they believe that everyone has a talent. I suspect that every family has such high expectations to some extent, but the pressure is far greater in my family than that of my peers, apparently. I believe that sort of expectation is more prevalent now... or perhaps it's just discussed more nowadays?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:07 pm

G-man;1271694 wrote: My Mother and I were just having a conversation (with a non-believer that I'm trying to convert :wah: ) about faith and miracles, just last weekend, coincidence? There are many who believe that as many as three medical miracles (occurrences that medical science has no explanation for) have occurred with me during my lifetime. I'm not sure, if I were Catholic, that these would qualify me for sainthood, but... I will say that I've always felt that an undue pressure to succeed has been unfairly placed upon me due to this and I come from a family that already expects greatness from every family member.

- I'm not here to discuss religious beliefs, that's been dead and done. :yh_rotfl

You did have one that I know of.

3 is powerful and reassuring that they do exist.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:08 pm

spot;1271699 wrote: That's a requirement for an event to be a miracle? in that case there aren't any. Every event is natural though some can be unexpected or unlikely.

I'm sorry you didn't quote my whole post and only took out the part that you felt would rile me up. Well, it didn't work because what happened with my dad was a miracle and that's all I have to say on this subject.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:09 pm

Jazzy;1271698 wrote: A miracle is an amazing or wonderful occurrence. It is an event or happening that manifests a supernatural act of a divine agent. It is when the impossible happens or when our prayer has been answered.

When my dad was dying of cancer and the family was called to get there before he was taken, I was hours away. I called the hospital and asked them to please let my dad know I was on my way. The doctor told me that there was no way he would survive until I got there. The priest was in the room at that point giving my dad his last rites and the life support system had been shut off. I prayed hard that he would wait for me and just hold on a little while longer. I got there as soon as I could and when I walked in his room thought I was to late. I held his hand and cried. He gave my hand a squeeze and a tear trickled down his face. He passed away seconds later. To me it was a miracle that somehow he was able to survive long enough for us to say goodbye to each other.That's a nice story, Jazzy, and I'm glad it worked out for you.

What you describe as a miracle people with more of a mystic mindset might call entering into the sacred.

Does a miracle need to qualify as something directly harmonious with "good"? Can it be trivial? Can it be for a purpose that is not immediately obvious or be even seemingly evil at first?

When I was 20 years old and recently relieved of active military service I went to Las Vegas. While standing at the front door of Caesar's Palace wondering whether or not to try my hand at black jack (which I had played on the street much of my younger day's) and possibly squander my $150.00 ( all the money I had at the time), I got this urge to play the "big wheel" I played three times and won all three. The man running the wheel looked at me and said "you need to go play", which i did. I won $1600.00 within the course of an hour.

Does that qualify as a miracle?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:10 pm

Jazzy;1271698 wrote: A miracle is an amazing or wonderful occurrence. It is an event or happening that manifests a supernatural act of a divine agent. It is when the impossible happens or when our prayer has been answered.

When my dad was dying of cancer and the family was called to get there before he was taken, I was hours away. I called the hospital and asked them to please let my dad know I was on my way. The doctor told me that there was no way he would survive until I got there. The priest was in the room at that point giving my dad his last rites and the life support system had been shut off. I prayed hard that he would wait for me and just hold on a little while longer. I got there as soon as I could and when I walked in his room thought I was to late. I held his hand and cried. He gave my hand a squeeze and a tear trickled down his face. He passed away seconds later. To me it was a miracle that somehow he was able to survive long enough for us to say goodbye to each other.

- quite amazing what that little miracle did for you that day.:-4

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:19 pm

G-man;1271700 wrote: To be successful in general, based upon individual gifts. My family is big on discovering talents in family members... they believe that everyone has a talent. I suspect that every family has such high expectations to some extent, but the pressure is far greater in my family than that of my peers, apparently. I believe that sort of expectation is more prevalent now... or perhaps it's just discussed more nowadays?I understand the pressure family values and expectations can place on people, especially in such a highly competitive society as ours.

I'm trying to tie the miracles themselves into how they add to the expectations. you've indicated that they are directly connected. I read your original post as something of the miracles themselves add to the pressure.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:23 pm

Odie;1271702 wrote: - I'm not here to discuss religious beliefs, that's been dead and done. :yh_rotfl

You did have one that I know of.

3 is powerful and reassuring that they do exist.

I'm open to any interpretation or definition, but generally a miracle is considered to be an extraordinary event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature or contradict known scientific laws. Some view such an occurrence as Divine intervention, but you're not interested in discussing that, apparently. :wah:

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:24 pm

Jazzy;1271703 wrote: I'm sorry you didn't quote my whole post and only took out the part that you felt would rile me up. Well, it didn't work because what happened with my dad was a miracle and that's all I have to say on this subject.Jazzy, with all due respect, Spot in no way belittled your story. His post was on the point of the philosophy of miracles which you provided.

Sometimes I find it difficult to separate myself from what seems to be criticism, but thats the chance you take when you allow subjectivity to enter a discussion. One needs a bit of a thick skin when thats done. Had you not included your story, would Spot's question had seemed less personal?

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:34 pm

I haven't seen any miracles myself. I have seen or heard of rare events that might be described as 'horrific'. I'd wager that the rare or extremely improbable events we don't like out-number the ones we do like.

Once in high school, one of the kids from school was watching his father split wood with an axe. What are the odds: a tiny sliver of metal split off the axe and shot right into his heart. Killed him instantly.

If we say that God intervened to help a person, or save a life, doesn't that imply that all the people in these other, almost impossible accidents, are somehow less deserving of the lord's favor? The flip side of a miracle: I don't see a way around condemning the character of people that are not so lucky.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:41 pm

do you believe in miracles?- Definately.

have you had one happen to you?- Yes.

has someone you know had a miracle happen to them?- Yes.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:19 pm

Ahso!;1271709 wrote: I understand the pressure family values and expectations can place on people, especially in such a highly competitive society as ours.

I'm trying to tie the miracles themselves into how they add to the expectations. you've indicated that they are directly connected. I read your original post as something of the miracles themselves add to the pressure.

I was hoping I could get away without providing the details. :wah: I was considered a miracle baby... my birth was well documented in order for doctors to better understand such events as they're not all that uncommon, rare, but not that uncommon. My mother was unable to have children and this was very important to her because her mother died at an early age. It was a big deal for her, moreso than with most women. Ever since then, my family was convinced that there was some great reason for such a miracle, like I was responsible for fulfilling some ancient prophecy or something ridiculous like that.

Such seemingly supernatural events aren't uncommon in my family. My mother has always been very psychic... she's the one single person that I've met who I can say is the real deal. My mother is psychic. A lot of people use that term loosely, but with her I've witnessed her make predictions that turned out precisely how she said that they would. Now she doesn't choose what she sees or anything... she didn't profit from her ability or anything... no Psychic Hotline crap. Her father had similar abilities and I apparently have those same tendencies, as well. There always seems to be weird, unexplained occurrences on her side of the family. I've always been fascinated by such supernatural events, miracles, Divine intervention... it's not something that I see as unnatural... I just believe that we simply don't comprehend such things, yet.

Recently, I became very ill... it's something that just sorta' snuck up on me and before I realised it, I was in pretty bad shape. After numerous tests (I was in the hospital for weeks just undergoing daily testing), the doctors finally came up with a name for it. The disease was genetic, but the problem with that was that there were no recent signs of any of the symptoms that I was experiencing on either side of my family even up until old age. That was certainly unusual, but not unheard of. Then I quickly began recovering, still not so odd as a small percentage can get better, but nobody has ever recovered to the point where this disease no longer existed, at least not until now. I'm certain that is the medical miracle one member mentioned earlier in this thread. I believe that such miracles occur rather often. I wondered if doctors hadn't made an error somewhere along the way, but they insist that was never the case and these were some of the most brilliant minds in the country working on my case, so... it's not likely that they misdiagnosed me. I was convinced that I would recover fully from it and get my life back, I did all I could do to recover and numerous people were praying hard for me to recover, as well. Who knows for certain what one thing, if any one thing is responsible for curing me. Whatever it was, it certainly qualifies as a miracle.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:27 am

Take a really long hard look all around you. Miracles occur every moment of every day if you but have the eyes to see.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:08 am

G-man;1271908 wrote: I was hoping I could get away without providing the details. :wah: I was considered a miracle baby... my birth was well documented in order for doctors to better understand such events as they're not all that uncommon, rare, but not that uncommon. My mother was unable to have children and this was very important to her because her mother died at an early age. It was a big deal for her, moreso than with most women. Ever since then, my family was convinced that there was some great reason for such a miracle, like I was responsible for fulfilling some ancient prophecy or something ridiculous like that.

Such seemingly supernatural events aren't uncommon in my family. My mother has always been very psychic... she's the one single person that I've met who I can say is the real deal. My mother is psychic. A lot of people use that term loosely, but with her I've witnessed her make predictions that turned out precisely how she said that they would. Now she doesn't choose what she sees or anything... she didn't profit from her ability or anything... no Psychic Hotline crap. Her father had similar abilities and I apparently have those same tendencies, as well. There always seems to be weird, unexplained occurrences on her side of the family. I've always been fascinated by such supernatural events, miracles, Divine intervention... it's not something that I see as unnatural... I just believe that we simply don't comprehend such things, yet.

Recently, I became very ill... it's something that just sorta' snuck up on me and before I realised it, I was in pretty bad shape. After numerous tests (I was in the hospital for weeks just undergoing daily testing), the doctors finally came up with a name for it. The disease was genetic, but the problem with that was that there were no recent signs of any of the symptoms that I was experiencing on either side of my family even up until old age. That was certainly unusual, but not unheard of. Then I quickly began recovering, still not so odd as a small percentage can get better, but nobody has ever recovered to the point where this disease no longer existed, at least not until now. I'm certain that is the medical miracle one member mentioned earlier in this thread. I believe that such miracles occur rather often. I wondered if doctors hadn't made an error somewhere along the way, but they insist that was never the case and these were some of the most brilliant minds in the country working on my case, so... it's not likely that they misdiagnosed me. I was convinced that I would recover fully from it and get my life back, I did all I could do to recover and numerous people were praying hard for me to recover, as well. Who knows for certain what one thing, if any one thing is responsible for curing me. Whatever it was, it certainly qualifies as a miracle.I'm happy everything worked out well for you.

So, what do you think about all this? Why you and your mother? What are these gifts for?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:13 am

spot;1271699 wrote: That's a requirement for an event to be a miracle? in that case there aren't any.

And yet I've seen dozens of them in my life.:-6

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:17 am

From: "The 7 Faces of Dr. Lao." 1964 Tony Randall

Mike, let me tell you something. The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it. The way the sun goes down when you're tired, comes up when you want to be on the move. That's real magic. The way a leaf grows. The song of the birds. The way the desert looks at night, with the moon embracing it. Oh, my boy, that's... that's circus enough for anyone. Every time you watch a rainbow and feel wonder in your heart. Every time you pick up a handful of dust, and see not the dust, but a mystery, a marvel, there in your hand. Every time you stop and think, "I'm alive, and being alive is fantastic!" Every time such a thing happens, you're part of the Circus of Dr. Lao.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:30 am

Do miracles only happen to humans?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:32 am

Ahso!;1272139 wrote: Do miracles only happen to humans?

nope, millions of animals, fish, mammals, amphibians to.:-6

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:35 am

Odie;1272141 wrote: nope, millions of animals, fish, mammals, amphibians to.:-6How do you know? and do all miracle believers agree with you about that?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:57 am

Bilions of years ago, a star exploded. The gas coulds drifted, mixed, condensed and a star system was born. On one of those planets, self-replicating DNA molecules arose. Those molecules climbed the ramp to multi-cellular life and eventually became...you.

How's that for a miracle?:D

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:45 pm

Saint_;1272151 wrote: Bilions of years ago, a star exploded. The gas coulds drifted, mixed, condensed and a star system was born. On one of those planets, self-replicating DNA molecules arose. Those molecules climbed the ramp to multi-cellular life and eventually became...you.

How's that for a miracle?:DSorry, Saint, but I see those as events. Don't take this as anything other than what it is meant to be and thats an observation, but it seems that miracles are self serving.

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:29 pm

My miracle happend 26yrs ago. My grandma had been stricken with cancer for the third time and most of her last year I took care of her. When she was hospitalized for the last time, her body was riddled with cancer and it was shutting down all her organs. as a family we made the decision to "pull the plug" and so it was done. Later that evening I went to visit her for what I knew would be the last time. They told me she was in a coma and highly medicated and would never know i was there. I went into her room by myself and held her hand, she opened her eyes and looked at me with fear in her eyes and a tear dripped down her cheek. I told her I loved her and that it was ok to go, then she closed her eyes and died a few hours later.

I felt that she was waiting for me to say goodbye and to give her permission to let go.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:37 pm

shelbell;1272182 wrote: My miracle happend 26yrs ago. My grandma had been stricken with cancer for the third time and most of her last year I took care of her. When she was hospitalized for the last time, her body was riddled with cancer and it was shutting down all her organs. as a family we made the decision to "pull the plug" and so it was done. Later that evening I went to visit her for what I knew would be the last time. They told me she was in a coma and highly medicated and would never know i was there. I went into her room by myself and held her hand, she opened her eyes and looked at me with fear in her eyes and a tear dripped down her cheek. I told her I loved her and that it was ok to go, then she closed her eyes and died a few hours later.

I felt that she was waiting for me to say goodbye and to give her permission to let go.

that was a beautiful miracle, to let her know it was okay.:-4

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:49 pm

Odie;1272264 wrote: that was a beautiful miracle, to let her know it was okay.:-4

She was not only my grandma, but my best friend at that time, so to me it was a miracle for her to let me know that she knew i was there by her side. To me it's a miracle and one that still brings tears to my eyes whenever I tell the story. :-4

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:03 pm

shelbell;1272281 wrote: She was not only my grandma, but my best friend at that time, so to me it was a miracle for her to let me know that she knew i was there by her side. To me it's a miracle and one that still brings tears to my eyes whenever I tell the story. :-4

I fully understand what your saying as my mom was my best friend and to watch her slowly go downhill only to find out 3 years ago she had no idea who I was, is undescribable.:-1

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:09 pm

Odie;1272289 wrote: I fully understand what your saying as my mom was my best friend and to watch her slowly go downhill only to find out 3 years ago she had no idea who I was, is undescribable.:-1

That must be so hard on you...i hope you get a miracle sometime with this. :-4

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:14 pm

shelbell;1272293 wrote: That must be so hard on you...i hope you get a miracle sometime with this. :-4

there is no miracle with Alzheimer's, it just keeps getting worse until you die from it or something else.

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:21 pm

Odie;1272295 wrote: there is no miracle with Alzheimer's, it just keeps getting worse until you die from it or something else.

I didn't see you answer to your own question...do you believe in miracles? If so, you know that anything is possible...i learned that from my miracle with my grandma. :-4

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:24 pm

How to see a miracle is mostly an exercise in selective focus. Look at a picture and subtract out all the negative aspects of it, like human suffering, or watching someone slowly being eaten away by a disease. Only focus on some positive thing. There's your miracle. The general theme of a miracle is set against mostly horrific events. It's always true though that things could be a little worse. So we can find a miracle in anything, if we want to close our eyes to the complete picture of what happened.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:12 pm

Every time I think of the word "miracle" I think of the implications of those unfortunate being "undeserving"!

So,..NO! I do not believe in "miracles"

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:57 pm

shelbell;1272297 wrote: I didn't see you answer to your own question...do you believe in miracles? If so, you know that anything is possible...i learned that from my miracle with my grandma. :-4

I've never had a miracle happen.

not possible with mom........

it would take more than a miracle to come back from Alzheimer's in the latter stages.

mrsK · Post by **mrsK** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:20 pm

Not sure if anyone will think this a miracale but it was to me.

A little boy I had been working with for 3 years & who had never been able to write his name, came up to me with his name written down perfectly & spelt correctly.

He cannot do it now a year later.

To me that was a miracale.:-4:-4

I guess we can find miracales everywhere,or what we deem to be miracles:-6

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:06 pm

mrsK;1272322 wrote: Not sure if anyone will think this a miracale but it was to me.

A little boy I had been working with for 3 years & who had never been able to write his name, came up to me with his name written down perfectly & spelt correctly.

He cannot do it now a year later.

To me that was a miracale.:-4:-4

I guess we can find miracales everywhere,or what we deem to be miracles:-6

awe, that is so sweet. :-4