What is your opinion in Islam

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:59 am

Hello all

How are you? I hope all is well.

My question is for non-muslims.

What is your opinion in Muslims and Islam, and why?

Thank you.

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:18 pm

Hello all.

For non-muslims, what is your opinion about Islam?

Thank you.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:54 pm

Just another religion being used by radicals and crazies in their attempt to dominate people.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:17 pm

Hello Tweetatoo.

There is a section in Forum Garden called Introductions, where new members can tell us a bit about themselves. Then you get welcomed into a community which is multinational, multi faith, multi worldview. And where we are all diverse individuals, like eveyone is.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:27 pm

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Hello Tweet:-6

Welcome to our garden. I agree with Pam. Please start an introduction thread so we can learn a little bit about you.

I am not religious and do not understand many things about why people are so religious. I'd like to be able to ask you questions about your religion that puzzle me.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:29 pm

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:33 pm

Maybe a mod can fuse the two threads.. so we don't all repeat everything

Maybe a mod can fuse the two threads.. so we don't all repeat everything

:-6

:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:31 pm

I can't believe I'm going to say this but: I Agree with hoppy on this one. Wonders will never cease.

Shalom

Ted:-6

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:33 pm

hoppy;1257463 wrote: Just another religion being used by radicals and crazies in their attempt to dominate people.

respect yourself

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:37 pm

Tweet,

You said that we can ask anything of you about your religion, so here goes....

I don't mean any disrespect here, but I just don't understand the role of women in Islam....I've often wondered if women are really treasured in your religion. I've often heard that your religion wants to protect women, but I think that you go overboard and may need to control.

I don't understand why women are so restricted.......Why can't they move about freely, travel and express themselves without men controlling their lives.

I do feel that Muslim men control their women.

I could never live in a society where anyone controlled me....no matter who they are.....

Tweed, I'm not religious, nor do I care to be....Please answer me honestly without religious overtones. I really want to understand your thoughts about women.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:39 pm

Yes. I agree too. All religions are man made constructs and used all too often to empower some and dominate others.

KSnyder · Post by **KSnyder** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:12 pm

I've never been to an Islamic country so I cannot say!

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:24 pm

KSnyder;1257577 wrote: I've never been to an Islamic country so I cannot say!

Hello Kevin:-6

Great to see you posting again...

I visited Tangiers in 1999 and had a great time. But, we were uncomfortable, at first, because we were Americans. We had a great experience because we had a wonderful tour guide.

We visited the Kasbah and loved meeting all of the merchants and locals there. Everyone made us feel so welcome. It was well-worth the long journey there from Portugal.

KSnyder · Post by **KSnyder** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:38 pm

Kathy Ellen;1257581 wrote: Hello Kevin:-6

Great to see you posting again...

I visited Tangiers in 1999 and had a great time. But, we were uncomfortable, at first, because we were Americans. We had a great experience because we had a wonderful tour guide.

We visited the Kasbah and loved meeting all of the merchants and locals there. Everyone made us feel so welcome. It was well-worth the long journey there from Portugal.

Hello Lovely Beautiful! It's always nice to see your lovely smile!

How very nice, I'm glad you enjoyed your trip!

I would love to experience cultures that I'm unfamiliar with so I envy all of those that make the effort. I can't stop thinking about traveling the globe just to try all of the street food! It appeals to me tremendously!

A sort of more ambitious curiousness than typically having a yearning to try a Philly cheese steak or a New York Pizza(Trust me I'd probably eat the whole pizza!)!

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:49 pm

tweetatoo;1257520 wrote: respect yourself

I do. Enough to avoid religions. The more restrictive, the more I avoid them.

KSnyder · Post by **KSnyder** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:13 pm

tweetatoo;1257520 wrote: respect yourself

Could you elaborate on what it is you mean with this statement exactly?

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:16 pm

Kathy Ellen;1257560 wrote: Tweet,

You said that we can ask anything of you about your religion, so here goes....

I don't mean any disrespect here, but I just don't understand the role of women in Islam....I've often wondered if women are really treasured in your religion. I've often heard that your religion wants to protect women, but I think that you go overboard and may need to control.

I don't understand why women are so restricted.......Why can't they move about freely, travel and express themselves without men controlling their lives.

I do feel that Muslim men control their women.

I could never live in a society where anyone controlled me....no matter who they are.....

Tweed, I'm not religious, nor do I care to be....Please answer me honestly without religious overtones. I really want to understand your thoughts about women.

I will be answering you, but I would like to mention that you forgot the basis of religion and went to something in the periphery. However, please keep in mind whenever you discuss with me a major thing: that any religion is made of:

1- Origin/Assets.

2- Branches.

The origin of a religion does not change with time. For example, when the lord sends a messenger with his religion to people telling them he is the god, he cannot come later to say that he is not the god. Similarly, God cannot be a son one day then comes to say he is not a son. So, either Islam or Christianity is the true, and everyone can know where the true is.

Another thing, you are not asked to be so religious, but at least be as religious as you can rescue yourself from hellfire.

Your questions is a branch from the assets. So, the laws of religion which tells believers how to worship are considered branches, and these branches do change with time and place. For example, Jews were not allowed to do things that became allowed in Christianity, yet both religions worship the same god. So origins are fixed, branches change.

The important point of religion is the assets.

Although your questions are away from the center of discussion, I will be answering you.

Women in Islam are so respected, and they have the freedom in Islam. Women are not restrictive. Allah created us and knows what is bad and what is good. So, the lord asked them to wear Hijab for example, because it is the good one. And actually, you will be seeing Christian women in the church who are wearing Hijab-like clothes. I don't ask you to follow Muslim women for now, but follow your women in wearing such clothes.

If we brought Muslim women and asked them: are you living free? The will absolutely answer: yesss! But what is confusing in your mind is: what is the role in Islam?

The prophet Muhammad peace be upon him asked Muslims before his death to keep care of females, and that females are weaker than males and that males must support them. Actually, Islam is very peaceful in that point. Assume a girl who travels without her brother or father or who are supposed to be with her of those allowed to. She will have difficulty to support herself like carrying the luggage, choosing a hotel and other things. Besides, Islam respected the woman as being more emotional, so she was chosen to grow her children upon the man, as man is supposed to work and bring money and support his family. Assume that a female heads up the family and that the man works as a babysitter and that the female goes to work, is it socially accepted? Religiously, and scientifically, the female is more affectionate and compassionate regarding here children and if a man who gets angry rapidly was holding his baby, he may throw him away!!! hahaha. That's because it is our nature, and Islam respected our nature. Since the woman is more emotional than using her mind in problematic things (his does not mean she is mindless, rather, she uses her heart rather than her mind most the time in serious things), the Islam gave the role of controlling and of heading the family to the man, where as the female to grow up the children as she will grow them better than if a man does. If we saw families who are of divorced parent's, we will see that those grew up with the mother are better than those grow with the father.

Yet, the mother is allowed to go, to travel and to seek life in the life. But assume that she was alone and some diseased-persons assault her, would she be able to protect her self? We all assume that most men are powerful, but we don't assume that most females go to gym and that are muscular!!!!

So, if she was with her brother, they will never think in assaulting her, and if so, her brother or father or the one supposed will defend her.

Islam is systematic in every point and step.

Now it is my turn to ask you: where did Jesus say I am the lord?

I hope that my answer was satisfying

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:19 pm

KSnyder;1257653 wrote: Could you elaborate on what it is you mean with this statement exactly?

I think that he knows. And concerning his saying that our religion is restrictive, I will say, no it is not restrictive, but it is systematic and protective, and from the god, unlike other religions nowadays.

KSnyder · Post by **KSnyder** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:24 pm

tweetatoo;1257656 wrote: I think that he knows. And concerning his saying that our religion is restrictive, I will say, no it is not restrictive, but it is systematic and protective, and from the god, unlike other religions nowadays.

No tweet,

You said that before he'd suggested Islamic religion was restrictive!

I'm asking you what you meant by your post tweetatoo;1257520 wrote: respect yourself

in response to hoppy;1257463 wrote: Just another religion being used by radicals and crazies in their attempt to dominate people.

I'm asking what you mean exactly by that because there are quite a number of implications behind it from which I most rationally object to!

All we need do is clear it up! Simple really!

Care to voice as to what you meant exactly?

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:37 pm

KSnyder;1257659 wrote: No tweet,

You said that before he'd suggested Islamic religion was restrictive!

I'm asking you what you meant by your post

in response to

I'm asking what you mean exactly by that because there are quite a number of implications behind it from which I most rationally object to!

All we need do is clear it up! Simple really!

Care to voice as to what you meant exactly?

Well, no Snyder, I didn't say that Islam is restrictive. He just suggested so.

And I mean by the response, that he has to respect himself. Because when he respects himself, he will respect the others. He said Muslims are crazies and radicals. Well, let him prove that to me if he can.

KSnyder · Post by **KSnyder** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:51 pm

tweetatoo;1257661 wrote: Well, no Snyder, I didn't say that Islam is restrictive. He just suggested so.

And I mean by the response, that he has to respect himself. Because when he respects himself, he will respect the others. He said Muslims are crazies and radicals. Well, let him prove that to me if he can.

Tweet!,..

Listen to me dude! "I didn't say that Islam is restrictive. He just suggested so." is what I said to you! Don't play silly little games with me!

And thank you for clarifying!

My response is that in his mind he has respected himself to the point he deems religion to be full of "radicals" and "crazies"! You just can't help but throw your opinion around as if it's better that's all!

Oh, in case you're wondering his opinion that religion is full of "radicals" and "crazies"! is no different than your clear opinion that religion is not full of "radicals" and "crazies"!!

By your saying "respect yourself" quite blatantly implies that you feel your opinion is better than his as I'd suspected!

Ok please continue you guys were talking about religion and how one says it's "restrictive" and the other suggests it's not! Please,..please continue!

:yh_think *K grabs a bag of popcorn all the while mentioning to the other voice in his head that "this will be interesting!"!*

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:40 am

Assume a girl who travels without her brother or father or who are supposed to be with her of those allowed to. She will have difficulty to support herself like carrying the luggage, choosing a hotel and other things. Besides, Islam respected the woman as being more emotional, so she was chosen to grow her children upon the man, as man is supposed to work and bring money and support his family. Assume that a female heads up the family and that the man works as a babysitter and that the female goes to work, is it socially accepted? Religiously, and scientifically, the female is more affectionate and compassionate regarding here children and if a man who gets angry rapidly was holding his baby, he may throw him away!!! hahaha. That's because it is our nature, and Islam respected our nature. Since the woman is more emotional than using her mind in problematic things (his does not mean she is mindless, rather, she uses her heart rather than her mind most the time in serious things), the Islam gave the role of controlling and of heading the family to the man, where as the female to grow up the children as she will grow them better than if a man does. If we saw families who are of divorced parent's, we will see that those grew up with the mother are better than those grow with the father.

This is where most Western women will disagree with you. They are the equal of men. They are quite capable of handling their own luggage, divorces, families and businesses.

Now, if you are weak, mindless and incapable of dealing with life without a man to back you up I can understand why you would need these rules. Do you think you are incapable of dealing with life without a man to tell you what to do?

Why are Western (and Hindu) women different?

Oh, and Jesus never claimed to be the son of God as far as I know, though plenty of people claimed it for him. Does that make his teachings any less good?

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:18 am

My opinion on Islam is the same opinion I have of all religions that take their beliefs so seriously and literally.

They scare me.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:19 am

From your comments here Tweet, I realize that I'll never understand you, your religion or views about women. I won't be responding to you anymore as we'll only go round in circles.

By the way, your current time, in your profile, is incorrect....

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:21 am

Clodhopper;1257717 wrote: This is where most Western women will disagree with you. They are the equal of men. They are quite capable of handling their own luggage, divorces, families and businesses.

Now, if you are weak, mindless and incapable of dealing with life without a man to back you up I can understand why you would need these rules. Do you think you are incapable of dealing with life without a man to tell you what to do?

Why are Western (and Hindu) women different?

Oh, and Jesus never claimed to be the son of God as far as I know, though plenty of people claimed it for him. Does that make his teachings any less good?

So well said Clod...Thank you:-6

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:42 am

Clodhopper;1257717 wrote: This is where most Western women will disagree with you. They are the equal of men. They are quite capable of handling their own luggage, divorces, families and businesses.

Now, if you are weak, mindless and incapable of dealing with life without a man to back you up I can understand why you would need these rules. Do you think you are incapable of dealing with life without a man to tell you what to do?

Why are Western (and Hindu) women different?

Oh, and Jesus never claimed to be the son of God as far as I know, though plenty of people claimed it for him. Does that make his teachings any less good?
Actually Clod, he did. Sort of. In the book of John, when Jesus was saying "see you later" Phillip asked him to show them the Father. Jesus replied "Oh Phillip, have I been so long with you, and you dont know who I am?" When you see me, you see the Father, who sent me." May not be word for word, but you get the gist of it.

Thats just one example. The whole new testament is strewn with references of Jesus saying He was the Son. He never denied it. He even asked the disciples who they thought he was. Peter answered with "You are the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." He just noted that no man had revealed that to him but the Holy Spirit.

Actually this bloke asking this question just shows he has never read the Bible, but they claim to believe in God. Allah is just an arabic word for God.

True, I have never read the Koran, nor will I. I have enough to deal with in understanding my own Holy Book without trying to figure out someone elses.

As for women, God made my face. And as far as I know, He has never said anything about covering it up!

In the old testament days, Judaism stated women had to cover their hair, but that was it.

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:06 am

Clodhopper;1257717 wrote: This is where most Western women will disagree with you. They are the equal of men. They are quite capable of handling their own luggage, divorces, families and businesses.

Now, if you are weak, mindless and incapable of dealing with life without a man to back you up I can understand why you would need these rules. Do you think you are incapable of dealing with life without a man to tell you what to do?

Why are Western (and Hindu) women different?

Oh, and Jesus never claimed to be the son of God as far as I know, though plenty of people claimed it for him. Does that make his teachings any less good?

Thanks for your reply.

Did I say something else? Females are as equal as males in Islam, and it is enough to us that Islam was the first religion who gave the female her rights. Read history.

I know that she can travel alone in western. Actually, many females can hold up there luggage. My question to you: What will happen if she was assaulted there? Ok, she is strong enought to hold up her luggage, but is she strong enough to protect herself from assaulting??

Every year, there is a large number of females who are killed by being assaulted, and more than 90% of them were assaulted while they were alone!! Seldom a girl or a female with his brother or father was subjected to assaulting or killing.

To any female, if you want to get skin cancer, to be assaulted and to do whatever bad to you, go ahead and do it. But Islam made the best to you by protecting you.

Freedom is not doing whatever we like, it is doing whatever "GOOD" we like.

Why are western and Hindu women different?

Simply, because of different religion!

But at the end, there is one religion chosen by the god.

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:09 am

Kathy Ellen;1257726 wrote: From your comments here Tweet, I realize that I'll never understand you, your religion or views about women. I won't be responding to you anymore as we'll only go round in circles.

..

No dear, if you want to understand Islam correctly, you will not allow such circles to appear. You understand that females are respected in Islam. Can you tell my why Muslim females are not annoyed by such Islamic rules? Why do Muslim females apply Islam in their life if it is really restrictive? Ask Muslim females who wear Hijab and who travel with their brother or father instead of alone; ask them: does that annoy you??

Never!

But between you and yourself, if you want to understand Islam, you will certainly.

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:18 am

Raven;1257740 wrote: Actually Clod, he did. Sort of. In the book of John, when Jesus was saying "see you later" Phillip asked him to show them the Father. Jesus replied "Oh Phillip, have I been so long with you, and you dont know who I am?" When you see me, you see the Father, who sent me." May not be word for word, but you get the gist of it.

Thats just one example. The whole new testament is strewn with references of Jesus saying He was the Son. He never denied it. He even asked the disciples who they thought he was. Peter answered with "You are the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." He just noted that no man had revealed that to him but the Holy Spirit.

Actually this bloke asking this question just shows he has never read the Bible, but they claim to believe in God. Allah is just an arabic word for God.

True, I have never read the Koran, nor will I. I have enough to deal with in understanding my own Holy Book without trying to figure out someone elses.

As for women, God made my face. And as far as I know, He has never said anything about covering it up!

In the old testament days, Judaism stated women had to cover their hair, but that was it.

Very very very great.

In all the verses you mentioned, where did Jesus say: I am god and lord and you have to worship me?? Focus, people did announce him being the son or the god, not himself announced that!!

"You are the christ ...." see, you are, not I am.

Allah is the only god.

And I know what I have read of books.

Back to the first verse: when you see me, you see the father.

Well, is Jesus the son or the father?

You see the father, so he is the father, and he is the son (a matter confusing). But I will go with you he is both the father and the son, can you answer please: who is in the heaven?

Further more, Jesus is on earth, meaning that the god os on earth, according to your religion, as Jesus is the god in a human body. Well how can the god be then unlimited?

The god is now in a limted space (on earth, a limited space, in Jesus, who as a limited space.

But god in Islam, is everywhere, and is Unlimited.

Who sees me sees the father: so you concluded that he is the father, so he is the god. He can't be the father and the son in the same time in Jesus!! And assume you concluded he is the god, it is just a conclusion, he did not announce: I am the god or I am the father!!!!

Another thing, You said that old testament said things about females covering their hairs. Then, why don't work that out as Jesus didn't cancel the old testament??

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:23 am

KSnyder;1257662 wrote: Tweet!,..

Listen to me dude! "I didn't say that Islam is restrictive. He just suggested so." is what I said to you! Don't play silly little games with me!

And thank you for clarifying!

My response is that in his mind he has respected himself to the point he deems religion to be full of "radicals" and "crazies"! You just can't help but throw your opinion around as if it's better that's all!

Oh, in case you're wondering his opinion that religion is full of "radicals" and "crazies"! is no different than your clear opinion that religion is not full of "radicals" and "crazies"!!

By your saying "respect yourself" quite blatantly implies that you feel your opinion is better than his as I'd suspected!

Ok please continue you guys were talking about religion and how one says it's "restrictive" and the other suggests it's not! Please,..please continue!

:yh_think *K grabs a bag of popcorn all the while mentioning to the other voice in his head that "this will be interesting!"!*

You are welcome.

And I am sorry if I misunderstood you.

But listen dear: If you want to understand Islam, then welcome to my posts, otherwise, there is no need for extra words.

Thank you

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:27 am

tweetatoo;1257791 wrote: You are welcome.

And I am sorry if I misunderstood you.

But listen dear: If you want to understand Islam, then welcome to my posts, otherwise, there is no need for extra words.

Thank you

Did you get that 'Dear'

KSnyder · Post by **KSnyder** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:13 am

tweetatoo;1257791 wrote: You are welcome.

And I am sorry if I misunderstood you.

But listen dear: If you want to understand Islam, then welcome to my posts, otherwise, there is no need for extra words.

Thank you

You completely missed the "his" part when I'd blatantly referenced myself so you obviously have difficulty in staying awake within the realms of adult conversation so this is where I leave you! Unless of course you're "dear" to other males, but none the less I bid you good day!

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:23 pm

Women usually get assaulted by men. For that matter, men usually get assaulted by men. Cover up the men and keep them locked in the house. Just to protect them from their own violent tendencies. Then women will be perfectly fine. Most are now, and capably go about their business.

On the skin cancer thing, sure - it's good to wear sunscreen and sensible clothes and not bake yourself on the beach. It could be argued that the fact some women are so covered up they never get any sunshine at all means risking the problems of Vitamin D deficiency. Like in most things - except religion apparently - there's a common sense happy medium.

Just a cultural note - a man calling women he doesn't know 'dear' sounds patronising and sexist. A man calling other men 'dear' sounds high camp.

But these discussions are totally pointless. We've done it so many times before. Someone with a religious agenda comes into FG, in "friendly" mode, but carrying his soapbox, his copy and paste notes from the Bible / Koran / Book of Mormon / whatever and it's like having one of those bods who come in twos and put their foot in your front door on a Saturday morning. The recording starts and resumes, and just goes on and on. There can't be discussion. Just repetition and a bunch of texts to prove those same texts. It's what I believe because it's what I believe because it's true because it's true.

Waste of time. And as I'm not locked up in ForumGarden, and kept there a captive audience - for my own protection - by force, by fear or by conditioning - I'm outta here. Goodbye dears. It's a bright sunny day. Australia is a secular land where I, as a woman, have always walked free and not so far ever been assaulted* - and I'll take a hat.

*Actually there have been a few very nasty, violent pack rapes of young girls in Sydney. It's not politically correct to suggest that religion was a factor but ...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... wives.html

http://www.islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/UncoveredMeat.htm

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:32 pm

AussiePam;1257888 wrote: Women usually get assaulted by men. For that matter, men usually get assaulted by men. Cover up the men and keep them locked in the house. Just to protect them from their own violent tendencies. Then women will be perfectly fine. Most are now, and capably go about their business.

On the skin cancer thing, sure - it's good to wear sunscreen and sensible clothes and not bake yourself on the beach. It could be argued that the fact some women are so covered up they never get any sunshine at all means risking the problems of Vitamin D deficiency. Like in most things - except religion apparently - there's a common sense happy medium.

Just a cultural note - a man calling women he doesn't know 'dear' sounds patronising and sexist. A man calling other men 'dear' sounds high camp.

But these discussions are totally pointless. We've done it so many times before. Someone with a religious agenda comes into FG, in "friendly" mode, but carrying his soapbox, his copy and paste notes from the Bible / Koran / Book of Mormon / whatever and it's like having one of those bods who come in twos and put their foot in your front door on a Saturday morning. The recording starts and resumes, and just goes on and on. There can't be discussion. Just repetition and a bunch of texts to prove those same texts. It's what I believe because it's what I believe because it's true because it's true.

Waste of time. And as I'm not locked up in ForumGarden, and kept there a captive audience - for my own protection - by force, by fear or by conditioning - I'm outta here. Goodbye dears. It's a bright sunny day. Australia is a secular land where I, as a woman, have always walked free and not so far ever been assaulted* - and I'll take a hat.

*Actually there have been a few very nasty, violent pack rapes of young girls in Sydney. It's not politically correct to suggest that religion was a factor but ...........

Sydney gang rapes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islamic cleric advises worshippers to rape and beat wives - Telegraph

Islam Watch - "Uncovered Meat and Rape: Condemning an Honest, innocent Cleric" - by MA Khan

That's what I pointed somewhere. We should stress upon Assets before branches. Because simply, if you believed in Muhammad PBUH, you will believe him and do what Allah asked you to do.

So, the problem of all of you is that you don't believe in Quran. That's it! Once you believe in it, you will do what is in it.

But you really actually made me laugh about assaulting men! Hahahaha.

Well dear, man can fight and protect himself. Less than 3% of men got assaulted, and most assaulted are assaulted by cops! Hahahaha.

But females are targets of many diseased males. A female cannot protect herself except she being Muscular!!!!!! I only saw two Muscular ladies in My life, and those were on TV in action film!!!!

Anyways, the problem of Hijab will be solved when you believe in Quran.

Besides, you said that vit. D deficiency. Will, the primary source of Vit D is milk, and most companies now put D3 form of vit D. So, although the sun is important for vitamin D conversion into active form, but the major source is diet and is enough to expose face or hands to produce vitamin D, and in Islam, it is allowed to keep the hands and the face exposed. So still Vit D can be produced in sufficient amounts. I know many of my relatives covering all there head and hands (although allowed to expose them), but I never heard from them that they suffered vit D deficiency!!! So, theoritically, Hijab will produce Vit D deficiency, but practically not! Bring me one Muslim female who suffered Vit D deficiency because of Hijab!!!!

Although this, I return to say that the problem is that you don't believe in Quran. Simply, upon proving that Quran is a book from Allah and you believe in it, you will understand that Allah commanded Hijab because it is better for us than anything else.

My question: why don't you believe that Quran is not a book from the god?

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:33 pm

AussiePam;1257888 wrote:

But these discussions are totally pointless. We've done it so many times before. Someone with a religious agenda comes into FG, in "friendly" mode, but carrying his soapbox, his copy and paste notes from the Bible / Koran / Book of Mormon / whatever and it's like having one of those bods who come in twos and put their foot in your front door on a Saturday morning. The recording starts and resumes, and just goes on and on. There can't be discussion. Just repetition and a bunch of texts to prove those same texts. It's what I believe because it's what I believe because it's true because it's true.

Ditto.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:38 pm

tweetatoo;1257936 wrote: Because simply, if you believed in Muhammad PBUH, you will believe him and do what Allah asked you to do.

I don't. And seeing the fruits of many of the people who do, and what so many of them do to oppress women, I have no desire to.

tweetatoo;1257936 wrote: So, the problem of all of you is that you don't believe in Quran. That's it! Once you believe in it, you will do what is in it.

You are studying medicine, so you must have some kind of education. And yet you can trot out this totally circular argument.

tweetatoo;1257936 wrote: But you really actually made me laugh about assaulting men! Hahahaha.

Well dear, man can fight and protect himself. Less than 3% of men got assaulted, and most assaulted are assaulted by cops! Hahahaha.

But females are targets of many diseased males. A female cannot protect herself except she being Muscular!!!!!! I only saw two Muscular ladies in My life, and those were on TV in action film!!!!

Those diseased males seem to include some Australian Muslim clergy - who advocate violence against women.

Perhaps the women you know have been conditioned into a state of permanent meekness where they would not / could not defend themselves. Many here do just that if attacked. There are non muscular equalisers like mace around.

And a knee in the groin will often work too.

tweetatoo;1257936 wrote: Anyways, the problem of Hijab will be solved when you believe in Quran.

See above!!!!

I did see one poor woman totally covered in our local shopping mall recently. Mid summer and sweltering. Her protector was striding ahead in open shirt, shorts, sandals and carrying nothing. She had all the parcels and the kids, and no peripheral vision with her face totally covered. She stumbled and fell.. and it was us other women who picked her up, and gathered her parcels, while her protector looked at his Rolex.

Although this, I return to say that the problem is that you don't believe in Quran. Simply, upon proving that Quran is a book from Allah and you believe in it, you will understand that Allah commanded Hijab because it is better for us than anything else.

My question: why don't you believe that Quran is not a book from the god?

Sigh.... Look Tweetatoo - I didn't ever actually say that the Quran is not a book from the god!!! You said that it is. So instead of insisting that I prove it isn't - why don't you prove it is ! You believe it is. You might think it is. You might have been taught it is. You head might be brainwashed into saying it is. Medicine is a science. So you know what scientific proof means. So where is the proof?? Scientific, logical proof????? That the Quran is true.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:57 am

This is the thing about total submission to God.

It means that people stop thinking for themselves. They start to listen only to their religious leader, and doing what they are told do â€˜in the name of their Godâ€™.

If a king got up in front of his people and said, â€˜I need more land, go fight a way and win some for meâ€™, people would say, â€˜no way, why would I fight and die for you!â€™

But if a religious leader said â€˜ go to war, not for me but for your God and you will be rewarded in heavenâ€™ then the people say â€˜yes, we will fight for our Godâ€™

Why? Because people in general are stupid when they surrender themselves.

They cannot think for themselves, and any discussion or thought are referenced back to the book of their religion, and they use quotes to back up the thought that were put into their head.

I do not believe the Koran was written by God, the same way I do not believe the Bible or any other book was written by any God.

They are all hand written, by men. Sure they may be spiritually guided, but no more than that.

Total submission to anything is surrendering freedom.

tweetatoo · Post by **tweetatoo** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:06 pm

As I replied in Christianity part, I will reply here.

To all of you here, just wait my topics about Quran and Islam. I will not continue in this topic per se until I put some topics about Quran and Islam as a whole then we return back here, simply, because you are talking about a religion you never read about it correctly from major official sources of that religion. And more probably, you either read sources of Shia or orientalists. I would never discuss a religion I never read. When I discuss Christianity for example, I discuss it because I read bible, not because I read internet. You should have read Quran before you say what you say about Islam. If you don't understand anything, ask true Muslims about, not orientalists.

By the way, can I post links to youtube in my topics? Only youtube as it is known to most, if not all, of us.

Thanks.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:12 pm

Don't like the ones who insist I must like them any more then I like any other religious nutbar who insists theirs is the only answer or religion.

They should all be isolated from those willing to get along and not allowed to breed.

The ones who are happy in their religion and wish everyone else the same in theirs, God love them, I say.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:20 pm

I read some of the Koran once.

I got as far as 'Your wives are like your fields. Treat your wives as you would your fields.'

Well as most people would take all the goodness from their fields and then cut them down to nothing, I figured that said it all!

Did you used to be Abrim is Muslim?

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:22 pm

flopstock;1258246 wrote:

They should all be isolated from those willing to get along and not allowed to breed.

:wah::wah::wah:

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:26 pm

Rapunzel;1258248 wrote: I read some of the Koran once.

I got as far as 'Your wives are like your fields. Treat your wives as you would your fields.'

Well as most people would take all the goodness from their fields and then cut them down to nothing, I figured that said it all!

Did you used to be Abrim is Muslim?

:wah::wah: Funny, Rap.

I don't think you could ever have a normal conversation here with give and take discussions without tons of quotes from a book written by man.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:35 pm

tweetatoo;1257781 wrote: ..... but is she strong enough to protect herself from assaulting??

Every year, there is a large number of females who are killed by being assaulted, and more than 90% of them were assaulted while they were alone!! Seldom a girl or a female with his brother or father was subjected to assaulting or killing.

So why is it then that we quite frequently read in the newspapers about Muslim wives and daughters being banished or even stoned to death by husbands, fathers and brothers for not obeying them or for glancing at another man or for any other lame reason they care to employ?

Why do the women have to walk behind the men?

Why are they not permitted to speak or have opinions?

Why are they not permitted to leave the house or go to school if forbidden by a male relative?

Where is their freedom?

And if you're truly studying to be a doctor, how come you have so much free time to come on here and write such tripe? :sneaky:

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:50 am

Thanks for your reply, Raven. Am away fro home trying to work out my brother's Mac and have only just managed to get online. Hope I haven't done something horrible to his computer....:-3

You clearly know much more about this than me, but I thought it was arguable that we are ALL the children of God, and that Jesus said something like, "The only way to the Father is through me," which I took to mean through Jesus' teachings.

I suppose my overall opinion of Islam is that is a respectable religion faaaaar too often hijacked by maniacs. I think the same of Christianity, but to a lesser extent.

I think Islam is much the same as Christianity was in the time of the Crusades. Give them another 600 years or so and they'll be fine. In the meantime it's a very adolescent religion, with all the faults of adolescence.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:08 pm

tweetatoo;1258244 wrote: As I replied in Christianity part, I will reply here.

To all of you here, just wait my topics about Quran and Islam. I will not continue in this topic per se until I put some topics about Quran and Islam as a whole then we return back here, simply, because you are talking about a religion you never read about it correctly from major official sources of that religion. And more probably, you either read sources of Shia or orientalists. I would never discuss a religion I never read. When I discuss Christianity for example, I discuss it because I read bible, not because I read internet. You should have read Quran before you say what you say about Islam. If you don't understand anything, ask true Muslims about, not orientalists.

By the way, can I post links to youtube in my topics? Only youtube as it is known to most, if not all, of us.

Thanks.

You make assumptions, Sir.

Why do you assume that none of us have read the Quaran? Certainly I have done so and I have discussed it with several parcticing Muslims.

I would echo Hoppy's comment - it is a religion being used by radicals to try to dominate people. Note, I did not say, and neither did Hoppy, that all adhierants of Islam are radicals - just that there are radicals within Islam who are trying to dominate people through their religion.

I do not believe that it is an inherrantly fanatical, violent or intollerent religion but I do see those elements in the response of some Muslims to the current world situation. I also see the pressures leading to those responses but I do not believe that those responses are useful to Muslims in general or to the people of the regions involved.

Also, you claim to speak about Christianity from a position of knowledge but your very words betray your ignorance to even the basic fundamentals of the religion.

mitchellpk123 · Post by **mitchellpk123** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:15 pm

Islam is beautiful and I found truth in it.Islam means peace.You can tell it is true for the twin towers are now pieces. The planes are pieces. he bombers are pieces. The Olympic athletes are pieces.Islam was established and completed 1400 years ago, it is not subject to change,changes are not from Islam.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:30 pm

mitchellpk123;1318422 wrote: Islam is beautiful and I found truth in it.Islam means peace.You can tell it is true for the twin towers are now pieces. The planes are pieces. he bombers are pieces. The Olympic athletes are pieces.Islam was established and completed 1400 years ago, it is not subject to change,changes are not from Islam.
So .... does Islam mean Peace or Piece? :yh_glasse