48 arrested in race clashes.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:53 pm

Police arrest 48 in Manchester race demonstrations - mirror.co.uk

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:44 am

48 UAF arrested in race clashes.
Where does it say in that report that it was 48 UAF members arrested?

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top- ... irmingham-

man-arrested-over-racist-leaflets-ahead-of-edl-march-97319-24898982/

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:50 am

abbey;1250780 wrote: Where does it say in that report that it was 48 UAF members arrested?

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top- ... irmingham-

man-arrested-over-racist-leaflets-ahead-of-edl-march-97319-24898982/

Quite right Abbs.... I must drink more coffee this early in the morning before posting. I have amended the thread title. Thanks for pointing it out.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:32 am

Considering joing the UAF. A way of engaging the BNP in the only sort of debate they understand.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:56 am

Clodhopper;1250788 wrote: Considering joing the UAF. A way of engaging the BNP in the only sort of debate they understand.

Well you can hardly reason with those whos minds are so closed. If they actually have an active brain that is. They always look to me like extras from Sean of the Dead and make about as much sense

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:01 am

They always look to me like extras from Sean of the Dead and make about as much sense

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

That's a very cruel thing to say about zombies!

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:10 am

I dont want to go to a mosque. I want to go to a church. What is so great about an Islamic Britain? Bet you wouldnt be so pro mosque if it was YOUR head, arm, hand, tongue that sharia law demanded you lose! I wont wear a burkha. God likes my head just the way it is thanks. Britain has ALWAYS historically been easy prey for invasion. And your succumbing to other peoples values and not clinging to your own is EXACTLY why.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:16 am

Raven;1250819 wrote: I dont want to go to a mosque. I want to go to a church. What is so great about an Islamic Britain? Bet you wouldnt be so pro mosque if it was YOUR head, arm, hand, tongue that sharia law demanded you lose! I wont wear a burkha. God likes my head just the way it is thanks. Britain has ALWAYS historically been easy prey for invasion. And your succumbing to other peoples values and not clinging to your own is EXACTLY why.

Actually, I dont want to go to either but I dont need to be a racist thug to not want an "Islamic Britain" or live under Sharia law

As for Britain being easy prey for invaders. Thats insulting to those who lost their lives during WWII. I thought we made a pretty good fist of that attempt.

You're not gonna be wearing a burkah this side of never

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:25 am

Snowfire;1250821 wrote: Actually, I dont want to go to either but I dont need to be a racist thug to not want an "Islamic Britain" or live under Sharia law

As for Britain being easy prey for invaders. Thats insulting to those who lost their lives during WWII. I thought we made a pretty good fist of that attempt.

You're not gonna be wearing a burkah this side of never
I actually had Rome and Normandy and the Anglo-Saxons in mind! LOL!

And dang right I will never wear a burkha! My husband likes seeing my face!

Why are the BNP called rascist thugs? Because they inherently attract that sort? Or because it is a party made up of that sort. If that is the case, then why are they a legitimate party? I sort of resent being told what party I can belong to. I am an equal opportunity healer sort. Thats not democracy. Thats a dictatorship.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:40 am

Remember, Ive seen your face. I know your husband wants to see it...LOL

I dont think we're as anti French as you think. We joke about it all the time but we admire the french and how they stick up for themselves against the Eurocrats.

We're more French than you think. Its that whole Norman conquest thing.

I'm an atheist so no one hates the thought of religious fundamentalism more than me. It aint gonna happen. This firmly secular society wouldnt allow it, despite your fears of us being "easy prey"

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:53 am

Snowfire;1250828 wrote: Remember, Ive seen your face. I know your husband wants to see it...LOL

I dont think we're as anti French as you think. We joke about it all the time but we admire the french and how they stick up for themselves against the Eurocrats.

We're more French than you think. Its that whole Norman conquest thing.

I'm an atheist so no one hates the thought of religious fundamentalism more than me. It aint gonna happen. This firmly secular society wouldnt allow it, despite your fears of us being "easy prey"
Yeah they keep saying that in Turkey too! :yh_rotfl

Yes you have seen my face! Hope you see it again soon too! Big event coming up!

You know I'm playing devils advocate here right?:-3

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:57 am

Raven;1250831 wrote: Yeah they keep saying that in Turkey too! :yh_rotfl

Yes you have seen my face! Hope you see it again soon too! Big event coming up!

You know I'm playing devils advocate here right?:-3

I'm an athiest, so what's a DEVILS advocate ? :sneaky:

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:08 am

Snowfire;1250834 wrote: I'm an athiest, so what's a DEVILS advocate ? :sneaky:

Definitions of devil's advocate on the Web:

someone who takes the worse side just for the sake of argument

One who debates from a view which they may not actually hold, usually to determine its validity, or simply for the sake of argument; A canon lawyer appointed by the Church to argue against the canonization of the proposed candidate

You still have NOT produced proof!:sneaky:

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:13 am

Oh I knew what it meant. Again I was being facetious. Athiests do not believe in the devil. My humour is sometimes my downfall

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:28 am

Snowfire;1250839 wrote: Oh I knew what it meant. Again I was being facetious. Athiests do not believe in the devil. My humour is sometimes my downfall
I dont believe in atheists. You guys are just waiting around for somebody to prove something to you! :yh_rotfl

Honestly! I understand your humour just fine.....fanks.

You must believe in something...otherwise you would not oppose so strongly those who do! :sneaky:

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:45 am

Raven;1250843 wrote: I dont believe in atheists. You guys are just waiting around for somebody to prove something to you! :yh_rotfl

Honestly! I understand your humour just fine.....fanks.

You must believe in something...otherwise you would not oppose so strongly those who do! :sneaky:

Believe me I am very comfortable in my commitment to being an athiest and "proof" is nowhere on the horizon and I'm using very powerful binoculars. I've never been strongly opposed to people practicing their religion. Just against them forcing it and its consequenses upon me. Seperation of Church and state and all that

But thats another subject entirely, however much I'd love to highjack and disembowel this thread

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:49 am

I actually had Rome and Normandy and the Anglo-Saxons in mind! LOL!

We ARE the Anglo-Saxons!

With a few additions. We're the mongrel nation and always have been.

Have posted a link to a Panorama investigation of the BNP on the other fascist thread.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:59 am

...may as well post it here as well:

BBC News | Programmes | Under the skin of the BNP

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:12 am

Racism isnt about freedom of speech. Racism is about denying people, depending on their skin colour, the same rights and oportunties as every one else. Pure and simple. No opinions. Its wrong. We are all equal. Nothing should be denied to me, that which you would take for granted, purely because my skin colour isnt the "pure" pale superior tone that suits your strange tainted view of how the world should turn. Different doesnt mean inferior

Just because I have used the word "your" it isnt directed to anyone personally

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:25 am

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:40 am

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:47 am

abbey;1250943 wrote: I really think you're flogging a dead horse Oscar.
Probably Abbey but the violence of the UAF is very real.

Hugh Janus · Post by **Hugh Janus** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:09 pm

abbey;1250943 wrote: I really think you're flogging a dead horse Oscar.
And the UAF would probably get a kick out of flogging a dead horse. Anything to do with violence and they are right in the middle of it...:wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:15 pm

Hugh Janus;1250962 wrote: And the UAF would probably get a kick out of flogging a dead horse. Anything to do with violence and they are right in the middle of it...:wah:
Sickening that the main funder and supporter being David Cameron... Mr respectabilty himself ( not).

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:18 pm

oscar;1250946 wrote: Probably Abbey but the violence of the UAF is very real.
As is the violence of the BNP.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:29 pm

abbey;1250971 wrote: As is the violence of the BNP. You will not actually find many reports of BNP violence over the past years. The violence comes from the EDL and Combat 18. Infact, it would be rather interesting to see exactly what would happen if Griffin left the security at home one day.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:02 pm

Many members of C18 are now BNP supporters

eg:

Name: John 'Benny' Hill

Position: attended BNP meetings in Oldham on 24 June and 30 September 2001

July 1997 - Imprisoned for possession of threatening written material.

1992 - Described himself as the "Reverend" in the Church of the Creator, a hardline US nazi group.

1994 onwards - Active in Combat 18 attending concerts and meetings across the country.

5 May 2001 - Was photographed and videoed with Combat 18 supporters.

September 29 2001 - Held a Combat 18 meeting at his house.

and:

Adrian Marsden

Position: Branch organiser for Halifax

Has been active in Combat 18 and the International Third Position.

March 1999 - Raided by Special Branch as part of a nationwide swoop on C18 supporters around the country.

1999 - His PO Box and address was used as the regional contact point for the International Third Position (ITP).

I can go on. There are others. Please also note what the BNP are really about - according to their Fuhrer:

In April 2001 Griffin spoke to the American Friends of the BNP. He said, "So, what are we now doing with the British National Party? Well we tried to simplify its message in some ways and to make it a saleable message. So it's not white supremacy or racial civil war or anything like that, which is what we know in fact is going on, and we're not supremacists, we're white survivalists, even that frightens people. Four apple pie words, freedom, security, identity and democracy."

All quotes from the Panorama investigation.

farmer giles · Post by **farmer giles** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:10 pm

hey cloddy a shot in the dark going out on a limb here:rolleyes::rolleyes:

whats the betting when its proven beyond any doubt again:rolleyes:

that the BNP are racist

nick gremlin did deny that 6 million yes 6 million died at his idol hitlers hands

she will say i never said i supported the BNP i wonder how people come to think that she did :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:18 pm

Clodhopper;1251015 wrote: Many members of C18 are now BNP supporters

eg:

and:

I can go on. There are others. Please also note what the BNP are really about - according to their Fuhrer:

All quotes from the Panorama investigation. I trust a Panorama Investigation into the BNP on the same par as I would trust a Panorama investigation into Rascism in the Police Force or Police Brutality.

All the quotes you have provided are years old...

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:25 pm

Jimbo: :wah: Probably!

Psychologically interesting - it really seems she'd rather go on being wrong and claiming she's right than admit she made a mistake. She's being forced into ever more intricate verbal gymnastics, but won't admit Griffin is a Holocaust denier despite seeing the video where he denies it.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:37 pm

Clodhopper;1251033 wrote: Jimbo: :wah: Probably!

Psychologically interesting - it really seems she'd rather go on being wrong and claiming she's right than admit she made a mistake. She's being forced into ever more intricate verbal gymnastics, but won't admit Griffin is a Holocaust denier despite seeing the video where he denies it.

I don't actually care if Griffin denied it, retracted it, re-inforced it, retracted it .... He is a Grade A pillock at the best of times.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:55 pm

All the quotes you have provided are years old...

Are they any less true for that?

There is an Adrian Marsden still on the leaked BNP membership list as an activist:

Personal information removed

Be one heck of a coincidence if it's a different Adrian Marsden listed as living in Halifax and an activist since there is only one person on the list named Adrian Marsden, but remotely possible. If he is the same bloke - which is very likely - are you denying he was a member of C18? On what grounds?

If Panorama is not an acceptable source, could you tell me what source you would accept as valid? Your tactic of attempting to cast doubt on any source which doesn't look good for your case is amusing, but not convincing.

So far it seems to me that your point about the BNP not being violent, that's c18, isn't standing up well. Many of them are the same people.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:57 pm

I don't actually care if Griffin denied it, retracted it, re-inforced it, retracted it .... He is a Grade A pillock at the best of times.

Should I take that as "Yes, Griffin did deny the Holocaust"? Or are you still avoiding answering?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:01 pm

Clodhopper;1251039 wrote: Are they any less true for that?

There is an Adrian Marsden still on the leaked BNP membership list as an activist:

Be one heck of a coincidence if it's a different Adrian Marsden listed as living in Halifax and an activist since there is only one person on the list named Adrian Marsden, but remotely possible. If he is the same bloke - which is very likely - are you denying he was a member of C18? On what grounds?

If Panorama is not an acceptable source, could you tell me what source you would accept as valid? Your tactic of attempting to cast doubt on any source which doesn't look good for your case is amusing, but not convincing.

So far it seems to me that your point about the BNP not being violent, that's c18, isn't standing up well. Many of them are the same people.
I would seriousley ask you to delete this post. The people who leaked the list of members onto the web have just been found guilty in court. You may not agree with the BNP, but your post is highly Illegal. You will get this forum into serious shyte otherwise.

Guilty plea in British National Party data leak - V3.co.uk - formerly vnunet.com

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:14 pm

The information is in the public domain and neither I nor ForumGarden are guilty of putting it there. I think you are trying to scare me. If the Mods want it removed for any reason I will of course remove it. In the meantime, here is a link to the full list:

http://wikileaks.org/leak/bnp-membership-list.txt

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:18 pm

You're still avoiding answering the question: Did Griffin deny the Holocaust ever happened?

I'll drop it now, because I take your waffling as meaning "Yes, he does deny the Holocaust ever happened, but I can't face admitting I was wrong."

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:21 pm

Clodhopper;1251049 wrote: The information is in the public domain and neither I nor ForumGarden are guilty of putting it there. I think you are trying to scare me. If the Mods want it removed for any reason I will of course remove it. In the meantime, here is a link to the full list:

http://wikileaks.org/leak/bnp-membership-list.txt It may be in the public domain now but the ex member of the BNP has been found guilty of violating the data act. I just don't think it does this forum any good to stoop to those levels. If folk want to know who is on the list, then they can google it themselves without bringing this forum into dis-repute.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:21 pm

oscar;1251043 wrote: I would seriousley ask you to delete this post. The people who leaked the list of members onto the web have just been found guilty in court. You may not agree with the BNP, but your post is highly Illegal. You will get this forum into serious shyte otherwise.

Guilty plea in British National Party data leak - V3.co.uk - formerly vnunet.com

Yet that article prints the very same list.

Incredible!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:26 pm

Clodhopper;1251051 wrote: You're still avoiding answering the question: Did Griffin deny the Holocaust ever happened?

I'll drop it now, because I take your waffling as meaning "Yes, he does deny the Holocaust ever happened, but I can't face admitting I was wrong."

This is what Griffin actually said at the time.

I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat.

â€”Nick Griffin, [25]

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:27 pm

I just don't think it does this forum any good to stoop to those levels. If folk want to know who is on the list, then they can google it themselves without bringing this forum into dis-repute.

...but your post is highly Illegal. You will get this forum into serious shyte otherwise.

So now you are saying my post is NOT illegal? Why did you lie? In what way does providing a link to the membership list bring this forum into disrepute?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:34 pm

Clodhopper;1251056 wrote: So now you are saying my post is NOT illegal? Why did you lie? In what way does providing a link to the membership list bring this forum into disrepute?
I did not lie... I ASSUMED that as the ex member had been convicted of breaching the data act in court which made the list Illegal, you were adding to the Illegalities by posting a members personal details here.

Ask yourself this? The UAF has some violent members. Let's say one logs on here, see's the address of ther BNP member you have posted, gets drunk and decides to firebomb his house. Only the BNP member is out and It's his children that burn to death. That is not out of the realms of possibiliity in this present day clash with the UAF. How would you feel then?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:42 pm

I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat.

He says orthodox opinion once held the world was flat - in other words, orthodox opinion can be wrong; and he says orthodox opinion is that 6,000,000 Jews were killed. How on earth do you read that as "Yes the Holocaust happened and 6,000,000 Jews died in the death camps"?

His first words in the video clip I saw were saying the gas chambers were a myth.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:47 pm

Clodhopper;1251063 wrote: He says orthodox opinion once held the world was flat - in other words, orthodox opinion can be wrong; and he says orthodox opinion is that 6,000,000 Jews were killed. How on earth do you read that as "Yes the Holocaust happened and 6,000,000 Jews died in the death camps"?

His first words in the video clip I saw were saying the gas chambers were a myth. He is not actually denying the Holocaust is he? He is pointing out in his statement (albiet crassly) that Orthodox opinion changes over the years. he says that Orthodox opinion is that 6,000,000 died in death camps. HIS opinion as a historian is that the numbers were far less. That is not denial.. he is questioning the propoganda of the numbers stated by other Jewish historians.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:49 pm

You might like to see a more complete version ofwhat he said:

"I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also also once held that the Earth was flat... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:52 pm

Clodhopper;1251067 wrote: You might like to see a more complete version ofwhat he said:

"I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also also once held that the Earth was flat... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria." Ok.. so where in that is actual hard Holocaust denial? He says. '

the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria." He is refering to the numbers calimed by other historians... Not total denial. Where in that does it say ' I DENY THE HOLOCAUST'?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:55 pm

You're wriggling. But it's very hard to take the quotation as meaning anything but "The Holocaust (or Holohoax as Griffin calls it) never happened".

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:07 pm

Clodhopper;1251072 wrote: You're wriggling. But it's very hard to take the quotation as meaning anything but "The Holocaust (or Holohoax as Griffin calls it) never happened".
I beg to differ.. You are the one wriggling. Where does Griffin ever say 'THE HOLOCAUST NEVER TOOK PLACE'?

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:31 pm

Getting away from all this bullshit about whether or not that moron Griffin is a Holocaust denier (which he is), where in the original article, is there any reference to race?

The article cited the English Defence League (which organisation can, at a stretch be called racist) and the Union Against Fascism, which is multi-cultural and multi-racial (and therefore not racist).

That being the case, why did this (so-called) newspaper play the "race" card?

That's the more important question.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:47 pm

Where does Griffin ever say 'THE HOLOCAUST NEVER TOOK PLACE'

He says the gas chambers are a myth (in another clip). He says the the "extermination tale" was an "extremely profitable lie" and "Allied wartime propaganda" (which it wasn't. Some information had reached the Allies about the death camps, but it wasn't really believed until the camps were overrun). What more do you want?

You never admit to being a BNP supporter, but you are one. Actions speak louder than words.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:50 pm

Clodhopper;1251106 wrote:

You never admit to being a BNP supporter, but you are one. Actions speak louder than words. That's code for ... 'Oh F**K I can't answer her questions rationally.