Homosexuality and the religions

[Abram Is Muslim]

Peace for You All ,

I readed a strange topic talking about Homosexuality and Islam,I prefered to start a long topic discussing homosexuality in all the faith , the Abrahmic ones.

In Islam :

The first people fall in that sin was the people of Lot , Quran tell how Lot was talking to his people and their strange sexual desires saying;

What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, (165) And leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk. (Quran 26:166)

And when Our messengers came unto Lot, he was distressed and knew not how to protect them. He said: This is a distressful day. (77) And his people came unto him, running towards him - and before then they used to commit abominations - He said: O my people! Here are my daughters! They are purer for you. Beware of Allah, and degrade me not in (the presence of) my guests. Is there not among you any upright man? (78) They said: Well thou knowest that we have no right to thy daughters, and well thou knowest what we want. (79) He said: Would that I had strength to resist you or had some strong support (among you)! (80) (The messengers) said: O Lot! Lo! we are messengers of thy Lord; they shall not reach thee. So travel with thy people in a part of the night, and let not one of you turn round - (all) save thy wife. Lo! that which smiteth them will smite her (also). Lo! their tryst is (for) the morning. Is not the morning nigh? (Quran 11:81)

So The Islam look at Homosexuality as a crime , and Islam never perimted that or even been soft with that crime , that mess up the community not less than what the drugs and all that things mess up the community.

According to the Cameron research, married gays and lesbians lived 24 fewer years than their conventionally married counterparts.

In Denmark, the country with the longest history of gay marriage, for 1990-2002, married heterosexual men died at a median age of 74yr., while the 561 partnered gays died at an average age of 51.

In Norway, married heterosexual men died at an average age of 77 and the 31 gays at 52 yr. In Denmark, married women died at an average age of 78 yr. compared to 56 yr. for the 91 lesbians. In Norway, women married to men died at an average age of 81. v. 56 for the 6 lesbians.

The full report can be accessed at








The Dangerous Nature of Homosexuality

J. Michael Sharman

The study found that 41% of the persons in the study who were in same-sex relationships reported being forced by their partners to have sex. In other words, they were raped. Because of the domestic violence in the same-sex relationship, 28% said they didn't feel safe to ask their abusive partners to use safer sex protection. In fact, up to 32% of those studied experienced abuse as a direct consequence of asking their partner to use safer sex protection.




In respect to homosexuality and AIDS, the original spread of AIDS is generally attributed to the promiscuity of homosexual men. Originally the syndrome was called the "gay disease" because the overwhelming majority of patients were homosexual men.

Of newly diagnosed HIV infections in the United States during the year 2003, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimated that about 63% were among men who were infected through sexual contact with other men.

Report here




Islam Looked at the Homosexuality just like the drugs messing up the community .

Homosexuality is traditionally deemed forbidden by Islamic law. The Qur'an, the central text of Islam believed by Muslims to be the revelation of God,[5] is explicit in its condemnation of homosexuality. The Qur'an proclaims Islam as the "religion of nature," and sanctifies and encourages sexual intercourse within marriages only. Specific verses condemning homosexuality include:

It was narrated by Jaabir (may Allah be pleased with him): "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: 'There is nothing fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.

And the Punishment Of Homosexuality was hard to save the community , its death:

It was narrated that Ibn Abbaas said: "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: 'Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.'

Islam put rules to save the people from falling in that at anyway;

Another Hadith narrative reports Muhammad (PBUH) as having said, "No man should look at the private parts of another man, and no woman should look at the private parts of another woman, and no two men sleep [in bed] under one cover."

Rulings by scholars of Islam:

Based on the principles of the Qur'an and the Hadith, several eminent scholars of Islam, such as Imam Malik, Imam Shafi, Ahmad and Ishaaq have ruled that the person guilty of homosexuality should be stoned regardless of his married or unmarried nature.

Ibn Kathir's commentary on the words of Qur'an with respect to homosexuality are,

The words of Allah ‘And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both’ mean, those who commit immoral actions, punish them both. Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him), Sa’eed ibn Jubayr and others said: By condemning them, shaming them and hitting them with shoes. This was the ruling until Allah abrogated it and replaced it with whipping and stoning. ‘Ikrimah, ‘Ata, al-Hasan and ‘Abd-Allah ibn Katheer said: This was revealed concerning a man and woman who commit fornication. Al-Saddi said, it was revealed concerning young people before they get married. Mujaahid said: it was revealed concerning two men if they admit it bluntly; a hint is not sufficient - as if he was referring to homosexuality. And Allah knows best."

Look here:-

^ Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/463

^ Why does Islam forbid lesbianism and homosexuality?, Fatwa No. 10050, IslamQA



Ibn al-Qayyim is reported to have said,

Both of them – fornication and homosexuality – involve immorality that goes against the wisdom of Allah’s creation and commandment. For homosexuality involves innumerable evil and harms, and the one to whom it is done would be better off being killed than having this done to him, because after that he will become so evil and so corrupt that there can be no hope of his being reformed, and all good is lost for him, and he will no longer feel any shame before Allah or before His creation. The semen of the one who did that to him will act as a poison on his body and soul. The scholars differed as to whether the one to whom it is done will ever enter Paradise."

Look Here:-

^ Ibn al-Qayyim. al-Jawaab al-Kaafi. pp. 115.

Ahmad Kutty, senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, in his lectures on the subject has expressed the view a Muslim practicing homosexuality needs to give it up since it is considered "one of the most abominable sins in Islam".Muslims like Dr. Nadia El-Awady, the Health & Science Editor at IslamOnline, have attempted to discuss and understand homosexuality in an Islamic as well as a scientific light, citing its apparent ill-effects for the Islamic as well as the moral society. The Islamic UK-based group, the Shari'ah Court of the UK has issued a fatwa calling for a death sentence for playwright Terrence McNally for depicting Jesus and his followers as a group of homosexuals. Many scholars of Shari'a, or Islamic law, interpret homosexuality as a punishable offence as well as a sin. There is no specific punishment prescribed, however, and this is usually left to the discretion of the local authorities on Islam.

Look Here:

^ How to Give Up Homosexuality by Ahmad Kutty

For the modern Law, Let me explain something , there is a different between an Islamic country and country full of Muslims , for example, America is a country full of Christians not a country based on Christian laws, there isnt any country based on ISlamic laws all over the world ,and even the Jewish Laws , there isnt any country based on Jewish laws, even Israel based on Civil laws, and for the Islamic counteries , there arenot any countries based on Islamic Laws but Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emarates , but not all of its Emarate(state),and Yeman .

But counteries like Egypt,Tunisia ,Morroco , and and and , are counteries full of Muslims but with civil laws , there are many Islamic groups go through the elections to applay the Islamic laws,they won in Turkey for example and started applaying the Islamic laws one by one , but in Egypt , the Political system is Anti Islamic for example , and it works against Democraty .

Why some do their best to relate between Islam and Homosexuality....??

Some missunderstand the verses or twist it , and sure it goes back to their owen directions , for example

Those are my school mates ;



Here and among a community refuse homosexuality , laughing and kidding like that have nothing to do with homosexuality , it impossible that one of us look at the other, in anyway,I dont know how to explain , its like the word Homosexuality aint in our dictionary , we raised with it out of our dictionary , while if a gay saw a picture like this , will think all of us gays , so its about the person who look ,not the persons in the view.

I wish my point was clear..

";">“The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin the ma`roof (all of Islam), and forbid the munkar (all that is evil; kufr): they observe regular prayers, pay Zakat, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.” (The Holy Qur’an, 9:71)

That Love among the believers , just sick persons think it an invetation for homosexuality.

People see the things through their owen glasses.

The Writer of the link in the other thread, refers to a picture of well dressed people as homosexuality,sick head , first painting for famouses and kings is haram in Islam,even the prophet Muhamed has no picture at all , because its haram(not allowed) ,becausethe believers may be with time give that pictures more attention like worshiping oneday , and like that the paganism started....

Making the rule of four witness was made not to punish someone by mistake , and second to give a chance for those who started falling in that sin to stop before being captured................


Next I will discuss Homosexuality and Christianty

[Abram Is Muslim]

For My Owen Country Egypt , and note Egypt is a country not applaying the Islamic Laws "

In 2000, the police arrested two men after public outrage over news reports that they had formalized a same-sex marital contract. In May 2001, the police raided a Cairo boat party, detaining sixty men before letting the foreigners go. The remaining fifty-two men — the "Cairo 52" — were arrested and tried on vaguely worded laws such as "violating the teachings of religion", "propagating depraved ideas", "contempt of religion" and "moral depravity." due to logistical purposes, a copy of the Egyptian Penal Code is not easily attainable by foreign persons of interest, or interest groups who cannot read Arabic, the Human Rights Watch has translated and published portions of the penal code online.

The Cairo 52 were defended by international human rights organizations such as Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International. However, they had no organized internal support, plead innocent, and were tried under the state security courts Members of the German parliament and the French President called upon the Egyptian government to respect the human rights of its LGBT citizens. Twenty-three of the defendants were sentenced to prison with hard labor, while the others were acquitted. More men have been arrested in various raids on homosexuals, although foreigners tend to be released quickly.

In many recent situations, the men are being arrested for meeting or attempting to meet other adult men through various Internet chatrooms and message boards. This was the case on June 20th, 2003, when an Israeli tourist in Egypt was jailed for homosexuality, for about fifteen days before he was eventually released and allowed to return to Israel.

On September 24, 2003, police set up checkpoints at both sides of the Qasr el-Nil bridge, which spans the Nile in downtown Cairo and is a popular place for adult men to meet other men for sex, arrested 62 men for homosexuality.

As of 2007, crackdown continues[citation needed]. In 2004 a seventeen-year-old private university student received a 17 years sentence in prison including 2 years hard labor, for posting a personal profile on a gay dating site.

The Egyptian government's response to the international criticism was either to deny that they were persecuting LGBT people or to defend their policies by stating that homosexuality is a moral perversion.

Source Wikipedia




Homosexuality among the community, let say 95% of the community refuse the Homosexuality , even among the Christian community in Egypt , the gays have no right to preach their disease among the community, and the police arrest them, and they go to jail , but for me I think thats a big propblem in the Egyptian civil laws , because that increase the homosexuality among the prisoners, I think the Islamic punishement is the best solution for that disease....

If we let the Homosexuality today , even after we knew its danger , we may allow drugs and everything later....

The Egyptian Community face two enemies spreading this disease , the Civil laws thats is soft towards that disease ,and the western (Human Rights Organisations) that work against the Islamic groups that ask for applaying the Islamic Laws and save the community ,and sure the political pressure , You know the Homosexuality spreaded all over the west and started to have political power , and now they are pressuring the Egyptian goverment to allow the homosexuality , but the community still religiouse and refuse this disease.

The second source of Homosexuality here is some Churches specially the Angelican Ones , and some Orthdox Ones , but it aint Legally there till now, Just hidden.



So I can tell Homosexuality is complitly refused by the community , I can tell I never met a gay for real , but my german supervisor in the Oil company I worked for .

But I never met Egyptian guy for rea never ever....

May be some exist due to the corrupted civil law ,and the corrupted media, and the pressure done by the (Human Rights Organisations).....I think by defining the Human Rights as doing everything the person want ,with no limits,we should allow the drugs ,and all the devils mess up the communities....

Attached files

[spot]

Human Rights doesn't consist of doing everything the persons wants with no limits, it's far more restricted than that.

I'm entirely in favour of every country retaining its own culture and setting its own laws, with an international veto against genocide (with guaranteed immediate military intervention as a reaction) and against torture (with guaranteed arrest and trial for all concerned). Other than that, people ought to get what their government legislates. If the citizens don't change their own government that's entirely their own problem, it most certainly isn't a matter for any other country to intervene over.

In the UK around one in ten sexually active adults practice homosexuality and discriminating against them in any way is illegal. Religious attendance and observance in the UK are minority activities too, they're also protected against discrimination. Both are areas where Human Rights laws apply.

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1203981 wrote: Human Rights doesn't consist of doing everything the persons wants with no limits, it's far more restricted than that.

I'm entirely in favour of every country retaining its own culture and setting its own laws, with an international veto against genocide (with guaranteed immediate military intervention as a reaction) and against torture (with guaranteed arrest and trial for all concerned). Other than that, people ought to get what their government legislates. If the citizens don't change their own government that's entirely their own problem, it most certainly isn't a matter for any other country to intervene over.

In the UK around one in ten sexually active adults practice homosexuality and discriminating against them in any way is illegal. Religious attendance and observance in the UK are minority activities too, they're also protected against discrimination. Both are areas where Human Rights laws apply.


But the Civil Laws , here in Egypt in UK , In America , and every where still leave gaps demage the communities, or lets say at least it mess it up.

Im still saying check what the civil laws done in America ,Egypt , England, and and and

Report about the Crimes rates in America since 1960 till 2007

Yes,Crime in Egypt has a low rate and is present in various forms. Forms of crime include drug trafficking, money laundering, fraud, corruption, black marketeering etc.

I can tell that our demaged corrupted Economic and Political system is the reason , and for sorrow , that system is being supported by USA, for sorrow the American system was just interested in having a corrupted system listening and helping its Agenda, just the same with Sadam in Iraq , it was the American favourite system , till its role was over.

Anyways the point here, the civil Laws are full of gaps mess up the communities , its softalot and affected by the politicans ,and the media.

But Im proud that the community here still a little at least related to the religiouse foundations even if the corrupted political system work against it, and thats the Only things keep Egypt as a safe , safe place as Thomas Keyes wrote telling,

Egypt Is A Safe, Safe Place

[spot]

Egypt is indeed a safe place with less crime than England though if I were an Egyptian citizen living there I think I would say fewer disrespectful things about the national government than I do here. If I wanted a safer environment I'd vote for a different government. I quite like the way England feels at the moment so I don't want to change it. Safety is only one aspect of life.

One of my daughters spent a couple of weeks in Cairo and along the Nile to Luxor last year, she enjoyed her visit very much. She said the people she met were often surprised that she could speak Arabic. I'm pleased that she could travel around in your country with so little danger.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Homosexuality and Christiany


Christian leaders have written about homosexual male-male sexual activities since the first decades of Christianity; female-female sexual behaviour was essentially ignored. Throughout the majority of Christian history most theologians and Christian denominations have viewed homosexual behavior as immoral or sinful. However, in the past century some prominent theologians and Christian religious groups have espoused a wide variety of beliefs and practices towards homosexuals, including the establishment of some 'open and accepting' congregations that actively support LGBT members.

The Bible is the central document of the Christian faith. Passages from the Bible commonly used in the debate over "homosexuality" include Genesis 19:4-29, Leviticus 18 and 21, Romans 1:18-32, 1 Timothy 1:10, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Jude 1:7. The arguments over these passages have centered on the extent to which these passages are still relevant; whether they refer only to certain sexual acts or to "homosexual" orientation; and how they should be interpreted, understood and applied.

Prior to the rise of Christianity, certain "homosexual" practices had existed among certain groups, with some degree of social acceptance in ancient Rome and ancient Greece (e.g. the pederastic relationship of an adult Greek male with a Greek youth, or of a Roman citizen with a slave). It is understood by some that St. Paul was only addressing such practices in Romans 1: 26-27, while traditionalists usually see these verses as condemning all forms of homoeroticism.

The 16th Canon of the Council of Ancyra (314)prescribed a penance of at least twenty years' duration for those "who have done the irrational" (alogeuesthai). There is some question whether this reference is to homosexual activity or bestiality (or both). The earliest Latin versions, however, translate the word in both senses. In any event, sodomy and bestiality are often condemned side-by-side in Christian writings of this era, usually with reference to these Latin translations.

In the year 342, the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans declared the death penalty for a male who aped the role of a bride. In the year 390, the Christian emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I and Arcadius denounced males "acting the part of a woman", condemning those who were guilty of such acts to be publicly burned. The Christian emperor Justinian (527-565) made those who would now be called "homosexuals" a scape goat for problems such as "famines, earthquakes, and pestilences

The Middle Ages

The most influential theologian of the Medieval period was Saint Thomas Aquinas, regarded by Catholics as a Doctor of the Church. His moral theology contained a strong element of teleological natural law. On his view, not all things to which a person might be inclined are "natural" in the morally relevant sense; rather, only the inclination to the full and proper expression of the human nature, and inclinations which align with that inclination, are natural. Contrary inclinations are perversions of the natural in the sense that they do seek a good, but in a way destructive of good.

Source ,Wikipedia

But those days , many Christiant scholars for sorrow try to call Jesus (Peace Upon Him) as a gay,

NEW TESTAMENT ANALYSIS

Jesus Was Gay According to Mark--jk & Prof Smith



Some sick minds use John 20:21 tocall Jesus (Peace Be Upn Him) as a gay

John 21:20

Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

IS JESUS GAY? by Dirk Vanden

Well they can depend on some verse like John 20:21 and even John 20 :13-14

But thats all nothing for me, I believe hardly that the Bible was altred by the disbelievers in that Era , specially where the Cathoilc church prevent anyOne read it , but the men of the Church , so whatever they say , its nothing because Jesus (Peace Upon Him) Is One of the greatest prophets ever..............

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1204020 wrote: Egypt is indeed a safe place with less crime than England though if I were an Egyptian citizen living there I think I would say fewer disrespectful things about the national government than I do here. If I wanted a safer environment I'd vote for a different government. I quite like the way England feels at the moment so I don't want to change it. Safety is only one aspect of life.

One of my daughters spent a couple of weeks in Cairo and along the Nile to Luxor last year, she enjoyed her visit very much. She said the people she met were often surprised that she could speak Arabic. I'm pleased that she could travel around in your country with so little danger.


I agree with you safety is a good thing, but freedom , and progression , is greatest things, and it aint against safety, its really pushing for the country for more progress, but living under sorruption is hard, the Economic system is messed up completely really.

I will give you two examples , One of the Civil System in Egypt and the Islamic System in Gaza..

Lets first start with the Egyptian System,the first three pictures, Thats where the President lives,

and the other three is the palace of the poor PM of Gaza,

the first picture is for him going for shopping , buying some food for his wife.

and the second for him, sweeping the streets, because the workers stoppedworking till they getpaid , and the Egyptian system , the American and Europian made Gaza like a big prison stopped the food , the medicines , they didnt open the boards for the sick children to go to the hospitals , and many died...Why...??

Because they picked an Islamic goverment in a fair election , and George Gallawy the British Congress(Parleman) member went to Gaza with many British Chrractersto break that Prison.

Attached files

[Abram Is Muslim]

who accept the Homosexuality as a normal practising here?

[Abram Is Muslim]

Abram Is Muslim;1204044 wrote: who accept the Homosexuality as a normal practising here?

[Chockygirl]

Abram Is Muslim;1204044 wrote: who accept the Homosexuality as a normal practising here?

I have no problems with homosexual people.

I don't understand the attraction of same sex,but I'm not bothered by what some folk do in the privacy of their own home with other consenting adults.

This is one of the many reasons why I don't follow any organised religion, because more and more I see the exclusion of some people,rather than tolerance and inclusion in many of the doctrines.

[abbey]

Abram Is Muslim;1204044 wrote: who accept the Homosexuality as a normal practising here?
Where is here?

[spot]

abbey;1204116 wrote: Where is here?


Among the membership of ForumGarden. Here among the participants of the thread.

[gmc]

Why are religious people so obsessed with sex and particularly homosexuality? It's always being brought up under the guise of discussing their faith.

[spot]

gmc;1204127 wrote: Why are religious people so obsessed with sex and particularly homosexuality? It's always being brought up under the guise of discussing their faith.


The laws in question are to all intents and purposes identical in Britain too, aren't they?

eta: my apologies, I thought we were still discussing pederasts. That was another parallel thread. No, the laws in Britain regarding homosexuality aren't to all intents and purposes identical. They were forty years ago though.

[Abram Is Muslim]

gmc;1204127 wrote: Why are religious people so obsessed with sex and particularly homosexuality? It's always being brought up under the guise of discussing their faith.


Sex in Islam is allowed as long as you are having it with your wife ,not out of mareriage ,not only that , its considered as a right of the woman, the men is ordered to be sensetive to her and lovely , the Bibler considered the sex as a punishement of God to the woman because Eva ate from the tree and made Adams eat ,while we believe that Adams and Eva both ate from it, no one asked the other , the Satan just sneaked at them both...

[Abram Is Muslim]

abbey;1204116 wrote: Where is here?


Yeah I mean among us ,who accept it and think it a normal relation

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204149 wrote: Yeah I mean among us ,who accept it and think it a normal relationI've had quite a bit of exposure to homosexual culture in England. I've spent several years as a volunteer for charities which focus on homosexual problems and that's brought me into contact with many homosexual men and women. Outside of places specifically aimed at their community it's often less easy to know who is and who isn't behaving that way, not all of them openly discuss their preference among the general public.

One advantage of getting to know so many people with that preference is that I've become accustomed to socializing in my city's "gay pubs". They tend to be more friendly and mostly quieter than the average, they serve better beer and the conversation's often more interesting. Strangers are more willing to sit and talk instead of ignoring each other.

So, as far as acceptance and normality is concerned, yes I've no problem at all with getting on in that environment. I think that would be true of a large proportion of people in England. I doubt whether many young adults here have a phobia about homosexual company.

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1204156 wrote: I've had quite a bit of exposure to homosexual culture in England. I've spent several years as a volunteer for charities which focus on homosexual problems and that's brought me into contact with many homosexual men and women. Outside of places specifically aimed at their community it's often less easy to know who is and who isn't behaving that way, not all of them openly discuss their preference among the general public.

One advantage of getting to know so many people with that preference is that I've become accustomed to socializing in my city's "gay pubs". They tend to be more friendly and mostly quieter than the average, they serve better beer and the conversation's often more interesting. Strangers are more willing to sit and talk instead of ignoring each other.

So, as far as acceptance and normality is concerned, yes I've no problem at all with getting on in that environment. I think that would be true of a large proportion of people in England. I doubt whether many young adults here have a phobia about homosexual company.


But Spot its a disease offering it self among the Youth as if its a normal relation, and everything is pushing guys specially in the west , everything pushes them towards it,evenfor just trying.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Do you think that relations is a normal created feelings , or just pushed ideas throught the propeganda of Midia

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204183 wrote: But Spot its a disease offering it self among the Youth as if its a normal relation, and everything is pushing guys specially in the west , everything pushes them towards it,evenfor just trying.


I had to look up "disease" in a dictionary to decide how to answer this. Here's what I foundAbsence of ease; uneasiness, discomfort; inconvenience, annoyance; disquiet, disturbance; trouble.

A cause of discomfort or distress; a trouble, an annoyance, a grievance.

A condition of the body, or of some part or organ of the body, in which its functions are disturbed or deranged; a morbid physical condition; ‘a departure from the state of health, especially when caused by structural change’

A deranged, depraved, or morbid condition (of mind or disposition, of the affairs of a community, etc.); an evil affection or tendency.So yes, in cultural intead of medical terms homosexuality is a disease wherever a particular culture finds it unacceptable. Your culture finds it so, mine doesn't. Neither is right or wrong, both cultures exist, each culture has a right to existence. I'd much rather the world has many alternative cultures than that we all end up thinking Disney cartoons are the highest achievement of human artistry.

Here's a comment from Helena Blavatsky, a Russian thinker writing around 1880 about an American writer and philosopher a hundred years earlierThoreau pointed out that there are artists in life, persons who can change the colour of a day and make it beautiful to those with whom they come in contact. We claim that there are adepts, masters in life who make it divine, as in all other arts. Is it not the greatest art of all, this which affects the very atmosphere in which we live? That it is the most important is seen at once, when we remember that every person who draws the breath of life affects the mental and moral atmosphere of the world, and helps to colour the day for those about him.

My experience of homosexuals in England is that, more than most of us, they are "persons who can change the colour of a day and make it beautiful to those with whom they come in contact". Leaving them free to develop in their own way improves England's culture. We benefit from their presence.



Do you think that relations is a normal created feelings , or just pushed ideas throught the propeganda of MidiaFifty years ago in England, homosexuality was illegal and the great majority of media opinion (as well as police enforcement) was against it. These criminalized homosexuals developed feelings they considered normal despite the criticism aimed at them. I don't think you can blame the media, then or now, for pushing them into behaving or feeling the way they did. Even today it's simply not true that "everything pushes them towards it", there's certainly no pressure on anyone to behave that way. It's what they are, just as those illegal homosexuals in Egypt are what they are.

[Abram Is Muslim]

What do you think about the drugs....??

Is it about the cultures too...?? if a culture accept it , then I should fight against it...??

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204204 wrote: What do you think about the drugs....??

Is it about the cultures too...?? if a culture accept it , then I should fight against it...??


I think the enforcement of laws against drug making and distribution and use puts a fortune into the pockets of criminals. If there were no laws against drug making and distribution and use then there would be no criminal involvement, no profits for criminals. Drugs would be marketed by professional corporations just as tobacco is, they would be clean, they would be less dangerous to anyone taking them. My own experience is that very few are physically any more addictive than tobacco. The ones that are, like "crack cocaine", are designed to physically addict and very few people would buy them in preference to less addictive drugs such as heroin. People become addicted because of their miserable lives, not because the drug itself is impossible to let go of - no more so than smokers find cigarettes difficult to let go of.

A world without laws against drug making and distribution and use would be a less criminal world, a healthier world, a safer world, even a more profitable world. When a country has an education policy against tobacco then fewer people smoke. An education policy against drug use would be equally effective in bringing down the numbers of people using them. That would be far more effective than putting them in jail is now. Addiction often happens as a reaction to something which is prohibited. Make something illegal and people want to do it. Make it simply a poor choice - like smoking - and people eventually teach themselves to avoid it if only to improve their own health.

[gmc]

Abram Is Muslim;1204143 wrote: Sex in Islam is allowed as long as you are having it with your wife ,not out of mareriage ,not only that , its considered as a right of the woman, the men is ordered to be sensetive to her and lovely , the Bibler considered the sex as a punishement of God to the woman because Eva ate from the tree and made Adams eat ,while we believe that Adams and Eva both ate from it, no one asked the other , the Satan just sneaked at them both...


Religious sects that don't allow sex tend not to last-just look at the shakers.

The question was why are religious people so obsessed by it? If they are not doing it themselves they seem to spend their time condemning others for doing it instead of just minding their own business. For some reason homosexuality seems to fascinate them. There must be dozens of teenagers who have their curiosity aroused by hearing preachers going on about it all the time. Unless you are actually gay having sex with someone of the same gender is not terribly appealing. I do have gay friends but we don't sit around talking about sex. It is just not the kind of subject that people bring up in normal conversation unless someone has decided to be openly gay or they are deeply religious. If you do bring it up people tend to assume you are gay and are looking for fellow travellers.

Puritanical societies and religions do seem to have all the problems with priests abusing young boys, and the abuse of women who don't want to do as they are told. We have this strange phenomenon of honour killings that because it is a cultural thing we are supposed to be understanding about.

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1204218 wrote: I think the enforcement of laws against drug making and distribution and use puts a fortune into the pockets of criminals. If there were no laws against drug making and distribution and use then there would be no criminal involvement, no profits for criminals. Drugs would be marketed by professional corporations just as tobacco is, they would be clean, they would be less dangerous to anyone taking them. My own experience is that very few are physically any more addictive than tobacco. The ones that are, like "crack cocaine", are designed to physically addict and very few people would buy them in preference to less addictive drugs such as heroin. People become addicted because of their miserable lives, not because the drug itself is impossible to let go of - no more so than smokers find cigarettes difficult to let go of.

A world without laws against drug making and distribution and use would be a less criminal world, a healthier world, a safer world, even a more profitable world. When a country has an education policy against tobacco then fewer people smoke. An education policy against drug use would be equally effective in bringing down the numbers of people using them. That would be far more effective than putting them in jail is now. Addiction often happens as a reaction to something which is prohibited. Make something illegal and people want to do it. Make it simply a poor choice - like smoking - and people eventually teach themselves to avoid it if only to improve their own health.


Then if u became the PM of Waills, you gonna allow advertsing and promotion for drugs. will we watch crocker heads on TV

[Abram Is Muslim]

gmc;1204234 wrote: Religious sects that don't allow sex tend not to last-just look at the shakers.

The question was why are religious people so obsessed by it? If they are not doing it themselves they seem to spend their time condemning others for doing it instead of just minding their own business. For some reason homosexuality seems to fascinate them. There must be dozens of teenagers who have their curiosity aroused by hearing preachers going on about it all the time. Unless you are actually gay having sex with someone of the same gender is not terribly appealing. I do have gay friends but we don't sit around talking about sex. It is just not the kind of subject that people bring up in normal conversation unless someone has decided to be openly gay or they are deeply religious. If you do bring it up people tend to assume you are gay and are looking for fellow travellers.

Puritanical societies and religions do seem to have all the problems with priests abusing young boys, and the abuse of women who don't want to do as they are told. We have this strange phenomenon of honour killings that because it is a cultural thing we are supposed to be understanding about.


because when sex out of marriage spreads , the rapes will increase , some turn into crazy over the fun , wherever and however they got it even through rapping , and you can revise the rapping rates in US , its about 13 women per hour, can you imagine the number.

while we are talking now there is a woman somewhere being rapped.

the sexual relation out of marriage will make the men compare and they wont feel justified with their wives and that will lead them to cheating , the sex out of marriage make the community face diseases such as AIDS and other sexual diseases.

the sex out of marriage give the guys the fun they need and keep them away from any desire of starting a family , and Germany face that problem now..

The SEX out of marriage is a poison go throw the community slowly till it mess up the women's lives.... for the men's owen fun.

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204269 wrote: Then if u became the PM of Waills, you gonna allow advertising and promotion for drugs. :DOne of the odd things in British law is that advertising and promoting tobacco products in England and Wales is very restricted. No big posters, no adverts allowed on TV, no sponsorship of any sports events. I'd make the laws for drugs identical to the laws for tobacco use. No sales or use below the age of 17, no advertising, no sales of untaxed products.

I expect the number of users would go up to begin with because of the novelty and after a while it would sink as the health messages become more effective. From the very start, though, there would no longer be any criminals profiting and far fewer people in jail. I think it would be a lot easier for people taking drugs to stay in paid employment, too. Because drugs are illegal to use there's a lot of negative propaganda about their effects. I'd rather people discussed reality.

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1204285 wrote: One of the odd things in British law is that advertising and promoting tobacco products in England and Wales is very restricted. No big posters, no adverts allowed on TV, no sponsorship of any sports events. I'd make the laws for drugs identical to the laws for tobacco use. No sales or use below the age of 17, no advertising, no sales of untaxed products.

I expect the number of users would go up to begin with because of the novelty and after a while it would sink as the health messages become more effective. From the very start, though, there would no longer be any criminals profiting and far fewer people in jail. I think it would be a lot easier for people taking drugs to stay in paid employment, too. Because drugs are illegal to use there's a lot of negative propaganda about their effects. I'd rather people discussed reality.


It will be a product and that product needs spreading to make profits , and it will spread over the health of youth

The Youth will be messed up , and You wont be elected the next Year

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204289 wrote: It will be a product and that product needs spreading to make profits , and it will spread over the health of youth

The Youth will be messed up , and You wont be elected the next Year


There's democracy in action then.

Who was the last President of Egypt to be voted out of office?

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1204295 wrote: There's democracy in action then.

Who was the last President of Egypt to be voted out of office?


:yh_rotflAmerica Love Mubarak and doesnt let him out of Office :yh_rotfl

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204296 wrote: :yh_rotflAmerica Love Mubarak and doesnt let him out of Office :yh_rotfl


I was thinking of the three before him. Nobody voted them out either, not with a ballot anyway.

Here's what I had in mind about the effect of education on tobacco use though. I think the same would apply to drugs in general if they became legally available. Tobacco's a product and the sellers want to increase use but they can't manage it when public health information and reduced advertising takes control.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Still in England about 58.5 millions by 2001 , can you imagine 30 % and 40 %, how many thousands , no let me say millions will be smoking :-5,thats messing up the work force of the community.....:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost

Attached files

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204314 wrote: Still in England about 58.5 millions by 2001 , can you imagine 30 % and 40 %, how many thousands , no let me say millions will be smoking :-5,thats messing up the work force of the community.....:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost:yh_ghost


That depends on the extent to which drug users fail to work adequately. Far more jobs and workdays are lost through alcohol drinking in Britain than from illegal drugs. Millions of people here take drugs illegally at the moment.

[Abram Is Muslim]

spot;1204342 wrote: That depends on the extent to which drug users fail to work adequately. Far more jobs and workdays are lost through alcohol drinking in Britain than from illegal drugs. Millions of people here take drugs illegally at the moment.


Then why you dont creat an Educated community aware of the dangers of all the harmful practises:)

[gmc]

Abram Is Muslim;1204275 wrote: because when sex out of marriage spreads , the rapes will increase , some turn into crazy over the fun , wherever and however they got it even through rapping , and you can revise the rapping rates in US , its about 13 women per hour, can you imagine the number.

while we are talking now there is a woman somewhere being rapped.

the sexual relation out of marriage will make the men compare and they wont feel justified with their wives and that will lead them to cheating , the sex out of marriage make the community face diseases such as AIDS and other sexual diseases.

the sex out of marriage give the guys the fun they need and keep them away from any desire of starting a family , and Germany face that problem now..

The SEX out of marriage is a poison go throw the community slowly till it mess up the women's lives.... for the men's owen fun.


What utter nonsense. What bothers the religious about sexual freedom is that women get to choose if and when they get married and can't be dictated to by the men in their lives. Because they have an unhealthy attitude towards the opposite sex they think everybody else does. Because they can't handle the rejection they want to deny the freedom to the women.

the sexual relation out of marriage will make the men compare and they wont feel justified with their wives and that will lead them to cheating ,




Works the other way as well you know. Women can compare as well. That's why some men can't cope with confident sexually active woman and like to think of them as sluts or women of easy virtue. It's easier than facing up to the reality they are terrified they might be lousy in bed. Most violence against women is committed by men who feel themselves inadequate-it's a power trip.

On the other hand if you talk to each other about it you can work things out if one partner is more experienced than the other-besides it's quality that matters not quantity.

I do actually read books written by muslims you know.

The Perfumed Garden - Wikisource

:sneaky:

[Abram Is Muslim]

gmc;1204489 wrote: What utter nonsense. What bothers the religious about sexual freedom is that women get to choose if and when they get married and can't be dictated to by the men in their lives. Because they have an unhealthy attitude towards the opposite sex they think everybody else does. Because they can't handle the rejection they want to deny the freedom to the women.



Works the other way as well you know. Women can compare as well. That's why some men can't cope with confident sexually active woman and like to think of them as sluts or women of easy virtue. It's easier than facing up to the reality they are terrified they might be lousy in bed. Most violence against women is committed by men who feel themselves inadequate-it's a power trip.

On the other hand if you talk to each other about it you can work things out if one partner is more experienced than the other-besides it's quality that matters not quantity.

I do actually read books written by muslims you know.

The Perfumed Garden - Wikisource

:sneaky:


I can read the book now Mr. :sneaky:

Im on a book already a Hinduism scripture, but if you have any comment about the book , I would love to discuss

Peace for You,

Oo and about the point of women comparing , sure the women too compare ,,,, and I can tell one of My fiance's relativies has the same problem now , she is Kentuckian, she feel sucks of her husband now, I cant blame him,she loved him ,or even wanted him, but she compared him to her perviouse relations, sure she wont feel justified.

[spot]

Abram Is Muslim;1204488 wrote: Then why you dont creat an Educated community aware of the dangers of all the harmful practises:)


Because the only available supply is illegal to buy and dreadfully impure and unpredictable. We need a clean legal supply from every corner shop before people can learn how to cope adequately with their existence. They already exist but some of it's far too unpredictable to be safe. That unpredictability is solely the fault of national governments.

[gmc]

Abram Is Muslim;1204496 wrote: I can read the book now Mr. :sneaky:

Im on a book already a Hinduism scripture, but if you have any comment about the book , I would love to discuss

Peace for You,

Oo and about the point of women comparing , sure the women too compare ,,,, and I can tell one of My fiance's relativies has the same problem now , she is Kentuckian, she feel sucks of her husband now, I cant blame him,she loved him ,or even wanted him, but she compared him to her perviouse relations, sure she wont feel justified.


What you were unfamiliar with such arab classics?the hindu one-if it is the one I think you refer to is also spiritual in nature-and no I am not being facetious. You should probably discuss such books with your fiancée. As a former southern baptist she will be perhaps be shocked to the core. one man's treatise on human nature is another's porno book and obscenity is relative. The perfumed garden was banned in the UK for many years. Muslim culture influenced hindu culture-there must have been cross fertilisation of ideas. we are all more interconnected than most people realise and people traded more widely and travelled more than many realise.

better I think to live in a free culture than find yourself locked in a loveless marriage you can't get out of. The rise of the divorce rate is not a sign of the decline of the institution-it's confirmation of the fact that a lot of women found themselves trapped without the economic resources to get out of a failed marriage. It used to be that women were expected to give up work as soon as they got married leaving them economically dependent, a woman who left her husband-whatever he reason was a social outcast unable to support herself.

I knew some of the east african asians that came here after amin kicked them out of uganda. I remember one of them telling me with great glee how a lot of couples got divorced as for the first time the women could get jobs and support themselves and didn't have to stay with the men chosen for them by their families. despite the cold and the rain she thought Britain a wonderful place for that reason alone.

As for your fiancées relative-better she find out now than after she was married.

[feetxxxl]

in regards to the incident with lot and the angels. how can there be any comparison between gang rape( a group of people physically forcing themselves on another sexually), and 2 people of the same sex bonding together out of mutual love,devotion, affection, trust, respect, for a shared committed life together..............the same as with heterosexuals

is the author saying, that the sin is about who they asked for, that had they been demanding lot's daughters it would have been perfectly acceptable.

what could possibly be more offensive to god than a city that celebrated, affirmed, and supported gang rape on strangers. did not god say to the israelites," treat all strangers equitably, because you yourselves are strangers in this land."

[Abram Is Muslim]

gmc;1204608 wrote: What you were unfamiliar with such arab classics?the hindu one-if it is the one I think you refer to is also spiritual in nature-and no I am not being facetious. You should probably discuss such books with your fiancée. As a former southern baptist she will be perhaps be shocked to the core. one man's treatise on human nature is another's porno book and obscenity is relative. The perfumed garden was banned in the UK for many years. Muslim culture influenced hindu culture-there must have been cross fertilisation of ideas. we are all more interconnected than most people realise and people traded more widely and travelled more than many realise.

better I think to live in a free culture than find yourself locked in a loveless marriage you can't get out of. The rise of the divorce rate is not a sign of the decline of the institution-it's confirmation of the fact that a lot of women found themselves trapped without the economic resources to get out of a failed marriage. It used to be that women were expected to give up work as soon as they got married leaving them economically dependent, a woman who left her husband-whatever he reason was a social outcast unable to support herself.

I knew some of the east african asians that came here after amin kicked them out of uganda. I remember one of them telling me with great glee how a lot of couples got divorced as for the first time the women could get jobs and support themselves and didn't have to stay with the men chosen for them by their families. despite the cold and the rain she thought Britain a wonderful place for that reason alone.

As for your fiancées relative-better she find out now than after she was married.


The devorcing rates in the west and East increasing , but Im still saying its becauseof the relations out of marriage ,my fiance is American Kentuckian , White American ,anyways I think a responsable loving marriage is an aim it self , and means , it will push me forward always , and whatever she works or not , that will make a difference in our marriage , coz I was brought up learning that the man is responsable for whole hie sife's needs , and even if she worked , she has not to pay for anything nor bills ,the man has all the responsabilities and thats where the name man comes from ,facing and holding responsabilites for your baby,anyways I think having Stephanie as my first and last , will make me never compare her to any other woman , I cant explain that feeling , its just like being blind ,cant see but her , and if I saw anyOne but her , I see them all Ugly , well not hating them , but thinking and believing in what I got as the best in that world :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 Whatever Your Opinion Is , I would like to say --------------------->

-

-

-

-

-

:-4:-4I Love You Stephanie sooooooooooooo Much:-4:-4

:-4:-4:-4:-4and You are the Only girl in whole that plant:-4:-4:-4:-4

[gmc]

Abram Is Muslim;1204776 wrote: The devorcing rates in the west and East increasing , but Im still saying its becauseof the relations out of marriage ,my fiance is American Kentuckian ,

-

-

-

:-4:-4I Love You Stephanie sooooooooooooo Much:-4:-4

:-4:-4:-4:-4and You are the Only girl in whole that plant:-4:-4:-4:-4


That's the same kind of argument christians come out with. It's a load of bollocks quite frankly. It's the religious bleating because people have stopped being taken in by their claptrap.

It was only post ww2 in that divorce became available for all-previously it was there if you were rich and there had to be an injured party adultery whatever. No fault divorces where it was by mutual consent or irretrievable breakdown only came in relatively recently and in the teeth of opposition from the churches that want to impose their beliefs on others. What used to happen wasn't that people stayed to together and worked through their troubles but rather a lot of people had to out up with miserable lives because they had no choice. Most of Europe is secular and far far better off because of it.

[buttercup]

Abram Is Muslim;1204776 wrote: The devorcing rates in the west and East increasing , but Im still saying its becauseof the relations out of marriage ,my fiance is American Kentuckian , White American ,anyways I think a responsable loving marriage is an aim it self , and means , it will push me forward always , and whatever she works or not , that will make a difference in our marriage , coz I was brought up learning that the man is responsable for whole hie sife's needs , and even if she worked , she has not to pay for anything nor bills ,the man has all the responsabilities and thats where the name man comes from ,facing and holding responsabilites for your baby,anyways I think having Stephanie as my first and last , will make me never compare her to any other woman , I cant explain that feeling , its just like being blind ,cant see but her , and if I saw anyOne but her , I see them all Ugly , well not hating them , but thinking and believing in what I got as the best in that world :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 :-4 Whatever Your Opinion Is , I would like to say --------------------->

-

-

-

-

-

:-4:-4I Love You Stephanie sooooooooooooo Much:-4:-4

:-4:-4:-4:-4and You are the Only girl in whole that plant:-4:-4:-4:-4


Its lovely that you feel the way you do about Stephanie but what happens if she changes her mind, she is very young and young people are easily influenced, also you are far away from each other. You would never seek another partner as you think of her as your first and last?

[Abram Is Muslim]

buttercup;1205055 wrote: Its lovely that you feel the way you do about Stephanie but what happens if she changes her mind, she is very young and young people are easily influenced, also you are far away from each other. You would never seek another partner as you think of her as your first and last?


I dont think it would be sensable to start another relationship if that happened

But about me and Stephanie , the situation is different, I'malmost the axis of her life,and she is the Axia of mine, well she is young, but she is that kind of persons ,who fall in love and never stop , secondly Stephanie has some Socials problems , like being nervouse among strangers, I wish changing that after we marry NshAllah, I think, no I believe she wont leave me , becuase I give her love as much as I can , and she admit no One loves her that much, I wish really giving her soooooooooo much , but the distance make its harder , but what make me patient is my believing that Onedays our life gonna change ,and we will be together forever and ever, we also believe that married couples stay married in heaven.

So I love her , and We will Never break...NshAllah...



here is examples of our friends started in online love and they made it , they are like our inspertion

those are a Palestinian friend,and his wife from Booklen, NewYork ,he was studying in US, and they met Online, they still in US , the second is Egyptian friend ,and his wife she is from Clevland, and now they live both in Cairo.

At last meand Stephanie Still in love till I become her Engineer:-4 , in a year NshAllah..:-4

Attached files

[buttercup]

I'm not saying it will happen, i understand that for many people who have met young or online they have gone on to have a wonderful life which is what i wish for you.

It just worries me that you say things like - It would not be sensible to start another relationship if that happened..

If for any reason your relationship should not work out, you can love again, its not impossible. :-6

[Abram Is Muslim]

buttercup;1205118 wrote: I'm not saying it will happen, i understand that for many people who have met young or online they have gone on to have a wonderful life which is what i wish for you.

It just worries me that you say things like - It would not be sensible to start another relationship if that happened..

If for any reason your relationship should not work out, you can love again, its not impossible. :-6


Maybe , But I wish it wont happen , it may be so much breaking

I think it wont happen , no I believe it wont

[Abram Is Muslim]

Wish answering any more questions about it