Can only a over haul of the benifits system stop this?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:17 am

Special investigation: The streets where Alfie, 13, grew up offer a disturbing glimpse of the moral anarchy engulfing Britain | Mail Online

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:38 am

A benefits system is supposed to instill morality????????????????

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:53 am

Accountable;1193154 wrote: A benefits system is supposed to instill morality????????????????
The British benifit system was introduced as a safety net for those in dire need. I do believe that it is our benifit system that has contributed to the lack of morality. Young girls know that should they get an STD, the NHS will treat them for free. They know that if they get pregnant, they will have the government keep them for the rest of their days and give them a free house. If this was not so readilly available and it was made far tougher for these young parents to survive, it may stop the rot.

Vesuvius · Post by **Vesuvius** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:12 pm

Agree wholeheartedly Oscar! Well said! it's really social engineering plus getting poeple to vote for Nu Labour! Although it has to be said the Tories have no policies to stop this rot, or to bring back a return of some moral standards.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 24, 2009 4:35 am

oscar;1193163 wrote: The British benifit system was introduced as a safety net for those in dire need. I do believe that it is our benifit system that has contributed to the lack of morality. Young girls know that should they get an STD, the NHS will treat them for free. They know that if they get pregnant, they will have the government keep them for the rest of their days and give them a free house. If this was not so readilly available and it was made far tougher for these young parents to survive, it may stop the rot.
Oh good, I was wrong!

You and I are in complete agreement.

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Sun May 24, 2009 4:42 am

So what we go back to the good old days ?

My nan got pregnant but being a good catholic Irish girl from Dublin she knew what lay ahead for her as an un-married mum. So she fled to England where my father was born she falsified the birth certificate to make it look like she was married which caused my father all sorts of problems later, and ended up marrying an abusive man just to be able to eat decently and get a roof over their heads.

He beat her and my father but there was no where she could go to.

In 1964 my nieghbour gave birth to a daughter. She had got pregnant from a man who said he loved her and turned out to be married.. This woman was told by her parents give the child up or we are throwing you out. With nowhere to go and no help from DSS she gave her daughter up.

As the years passed that woman tortured herself knowing her now grown up daughter could find her. 'How can I tell her I was too cowerdly and weak to keep her' she asked.

Morality is all fine and dandy but support has to be there...What about 'taking care of our own'??????

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 24, 2009 4:52 am

Victoria;1193555 wrote: So what we go back to the good old days ?

My nan got pregnant but being a good catholic Irish girl from Dublin she knew what lay ahead for her as an un-married mum. So she fled to England where my father was born she falsified the birth certificate to make it look like she was married which caused my father all sorts of problems later, and ended up marrying an abusive man just to be able to eat decently and get a roof over their heads.

He beat her and my father but there was no where she could go to.

In 1964 my nieghbour gave birth to a daughter. She had got pregnant from a man who said he loved her and turned out to be married.. This woman was told by her parents give the child up or we are throwing you out. With nowhere to go and no help from DSS she gave her daughter up.

As the years passed that woman tortured herself knowing her now grown up daughter could find her. 'How can I tell her I was too cowerdly and weak to keep her' she asked.

Morality is all fine and dandy but support has to be there...What about 'taking care of our own'??????
Another cyber friend related a personal story to a similar conversation. My response destroyed the friendship. People put these personally valuable anecdotes out there for all to see, then feel personally attacked when others comment on them. I see immorality throughout your post, but I'll not say more.

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Sun May 24, 2009 5:46 am

Imorality yes but would they be less so if dumped on the streets?

Should we return to the workhouse days ?

That approach does not work and frankly most of those'lessons'are base on a belief system which a lot of people no longer have. If you want Christian morality then christian forgiveness must go hand in hand with it.

If you had put my gran in the work house or on the street would it have made a difference? Maybe? Maybe she would have found another way to make money?

Maybe she would have gone to a back street abortionist?

I am not saying we shouldnt be stricter, begin with prosicution of those under age having sex/and or babies both MEN and women.. Even if they do community service let them feel the disapproval.

Single mums/teenage mums, enforce a school/work programme so that they only get benefits if they attend.

Maybe instilling a work ethic in more of the adults in England would be a good place to start as many of these teens grow up in benefit households knowing how to work the system. If the crackdown on earning your benefit started with their parents they may not be so quick to choose the easy life..

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun May 24, 2009 5:52 am

Victoria;1193555 wrote: So what we go back to the good old days ?

My nan got pregnant but being a good catholic Irish girl from Dublin she knew what lay ahead for her as an un-married mum. So she fled to England where my father was born she falsified the birth certificate to make it look like she was married which caused my father all sorts of problems later, and ended up marrying an abusive man just to be able to eat decently and get a roof over their heads.

He beat her and my father but there was no where she could go to.

In 1964 my nieghbour gave birth to a daughter. She had got pregnant from a man who said he loved her and turned out to be married.. This woman was told by her parents give the child up or we are throwing you out. With nowhere to go and no help from DSS she gave her daughter up.

As the years passed that woman tortured herself knowing her now grown up daughter could find her. 'How can I tell her I was too cowerdly and weak to keep her' she asked.

Morality is all fine and dandy but support has to be there...What about 'taking care of our own'?????? I do sympathise Victoria. My nephews have adopted children and i can't imagine what their mothers go through.

I'm not suggesting we go back to a system where there is no help or support at all but the benifits system in this country is ludicrous. We have a cafe near us and often we will go there for a breakfast. It seems to be the meeting place for the local teenage mums and all we over hear is, 'I'm entitled to this, I'm entitled to that' while we have just paid 40% tax on our savings.

There is no accountability these days and with mass immigration, the funds are simply going to run out one day. Ireland has already seen their government make drastic cuts in welfare. I know teenage mums in my village and see the benifits and free housing they get yet their own parents in some cases are wealthy enough to take the burden off the state. They don't because this generation has a mentality that they have a right to be kept for the rest of their lives. Your nan's story is a tragic example of how it did used to be but we have gone from one end to the other. There has to be a middle ground where teenage mums are given support, yes, but not bleed the country dry. Britain has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun May 24, 2009 5:56 am

Victoria;1193570 wrote:

I am not saying we shouldnt be stricter, begin with prosicution of those under age having sex/and or babies both MEN and women.. Even if they do community service let them feel the disapproval.Single mums/teenage mums, enforce a school/work programme so that they only get benefits if they attend.

Maybe instilling a work ethic in more of the adults in England would be a good place to start as many of these teens grow up in benefit households knowing how to work the system. If the crackdown on earning your benefit started with their parents they may not be so quick to choose the easy life.. I have an odious neighbour who has never worked in her life but has a nice free house and benifits that enable her to stock up on cheap supermarket booxze and ciggs as soon as she gets her cheque. I joked to her one day that Gordon Brown was going to force Mothers on benifit back to work to earn their benifit. She had a fit and her answer was to get pregnant again. :-5