Warning post is about animal cruelty and weak sentencing of abusers
Last year a couple from Leeuwarden in The Netherlands took their beagle Joey to a local park and while one held him the other hit him 7 times in the head with a claw hammer until he was dead.
As they left the park the pair dumped Joeys lifeless body in a rubbish container. Luckily a passerby saw the dumping and called the police. The pair were arrested they did not deny the killing of Joey but said their reason was that he 'shed too much hair in the house'. It is worth mentioning that an animal shelter where they could have taken Joey was within walking distance of thier house.
The outrage from nieghbours and residents was so great that the pair were relocated from thier council house to another town.
They have now been sentenced and each got 180 hours community service...Thats it..
Words fail me I feel totally disgusted with the judgement and wonder what heartless judge could fail to be moved by this and not give the maximum sentence.
Victoria;1192712 wrote: I feel totally disgusted with the judgement and wonder what heartless judge could fail to be moved by this and not give the maximum sentence.
Victoria;1192712 wrote: Warning post is about animal cruelty and weak sentencing of abusers
Last year a couple from Leeuwarden in The Netherlands took their beagle Joey to a local park and while one held him the other hit him 7 times in the head with a claw hammer until he was dead.
As they left the park the pair dumped Joeys lifeless body in a rubbish container. Luckily a passerby saw the dumping and called the police. The pair were arrested they did not deny the killing of Joey but said their reason was that he 'shed too much hair in the house'. It is worth mentioning that an animal shelter where they could have taken Joey was within walking distance of thier house.
The outrage from nieghbours and residents was so great that the pair were relocated from thier council house to another town.
They have now been sentenced and each got 180 hours community service...Thats it..
Words fail me I feel totally disgusted with the judgement and wonder what heartless judge could fail to be moved by this and not give the maximum sentence.
There's a big grey area with what is the maximum sentence with animal cruelty and i think it is down to the judge and his limits. This is another typical example of how animal cruelty is just not taken seiousley enough in this country. I'm involved in some-thing at the moment where i know an accused tortured animals before he went on to allegedly kill some-one. We need to wake up to this and address it.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The maximum is still laughable its recently been doubled to 6 months jail or 1000 euro fine.. work order (comunity service) is often given if people dont have the means to pay a moneytary fine.
Victoria;1192723 wrote: Sorry I did post this once on another thread
The maximum is still laughable its recently been doubled to 6 months jail or 1000 euro fine.. work order (comunity service) is often given if people dont have the means to pay a moneytary fine. It's a pathetic price for cruelty to the defenceless.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Vesuvius;1192751 wrote: But, something tells me, however dreadful this is, that we must address human cruelty to other humans first, in particular babies, such as baby P.
Also pointed out in previous post most of those who go on to murder children and serial killers start with animals ...stop the rot before it gets to humans.
Cruelty to children and animals make me apopletic. I know it goes against what I stand for, but whenever I hear or read of these cases, I want to make those bastards who committed the act suffer, slowly, and for a long time. They really do bring out the evil side in me.
Vesuvius;1192751 wrote: But, something tells me, however dreadful this is, that we must address human cruelty to other humans first, in particular babies, such as baby P.
Something tells me it doesn't make a tinker's dam if it's a baby or a dog. I feel a setup coming. A dog is no less important.
The best thing to happen to these wastes of sperm and egg would be their house going up in fire with them in it.
Have a nice day, mods.
ETA: the aforementioned attitude is exactly the reason cruelty occurs and is permitted. People don't give enough of a damn unless it's a kid. That's just wrong.
RedGlitter;1193184 wrote: Something tells me it doesn't make a tinker's dam if it's a baby or a dog. I feel a setup coming. A dog is no less important.
The best thing to happen to these wastes of sperm and egg would be their house going up in fire with them in it.
Have a nice day, mods.
ETA: the aforementioned attitude is exactly the reason cruelty occurs and is permitted. People don't give enough of a damn unless it's a kid. That's just wrong.
I strongly feel a dog, cat, mouse or bird is less important than our own human children.
I do believe if we are civilised enough to look after our own, and manage to prevent abuse or death of the children in our or any society, then the net result will be that animals will be treated the same.
A gigantic undertaking, to stop abuse of children. Not just in this country, but further afield in preventing the circumcision of young girls, and the forced marriages of girls from the age of 12. The world has to change radically. Whilst it is doing so IMHO, it can address the subject of abuse to animals, they can go hand in hand, but, let us first become REALLY civilised....not just the first 'pretend' layer, but the whole being.
Vesuvius;1193311 wrote: I strongly feel a dog, cat, mouse or bird is less important than our own human children.
I do believe if we are civilised enough to look after our own, and manage to prevent abuse or death of the children in our or any society, then the net result will be that animals will be treated the same.
A gigantic undertaking, to stop abuse of children. Not just in this country, but further afield in preventing the circumcision of young girls, and the forced marriages of girls from the age of 12. The world has to change radically. Whilst it is doing so IMHO, it can address the subject of abuse to animals, they can go hand in hand, but, let us first become REALLY civilised....not just the first 'pretend' layer, but the whole being.
I agree with you to the extent that we should look to save our own first. But, at the end of the day, all life is important and we can no more survive without the other creatures in this world than we can without our children. We must encompass it all with our grace.
Victoria;1192723 wrote: Sorry I did post this once on another thread
The maximum is still laughable its recently been doubled to 6 months jail or 1000 euro fine.. work order (comunity service) is often given if people dont have the means to pay a moneytary fine.
No this behaviour is not acceptable but is the sentencing purely a reflection of over full prisons?
RedGlitter;1193184 wrote: Something tells me it doesn't make a tinker's dam if it's a baby or a dog. I feel a setup coming. A dog is no less important.
The best thing to happen to these wastes of sperm and egg would be their house going up in fire with them in it.
Have a nice day, mods.
ETA: the aforementioned attitude is exactly the reason cruelty occurs and is permitted. People don't give enough of a damn unless it's a kid. That's just wrong.
[QUOTE=Vesuvius;1193311]I strongly feel a dog, cat, mouse or bird is less important than our own human children.
I do believe if we are civilised enough to look after our own, and manage to prevent abuse or death of the children in our or any society, then the net result will be that animals will be treated the same.
WAKE UP.... it starts with animals .. by the time you are jumping in 'to look after our own' they have already maimed and tortured living creatures the damage is done..
By taking animal cruelty seriously you can prevent it escalating but of course the dog cat bird is not important to you...
This is from someone who knows what he is talking about read it... and learn how to look after your own.
About Joshua K. Marquis
Josh Marquis has been District Attorney of Clatsop County (Astoria) Oregon, since 1994 – winning reelection in 1998, 2002 and 2006. He is a former president of the Oregon District Attorney's Association and has served on the Board of Directors of the National District Attorneys Association (NDAA) since 1997. He is currently a Vice President of the NDAA.
A graduate of the University of Oregon's Honors College and Law School, he has worked as a newspaper reporter in Los Angeles, speechwriter to California's Attorney General, and in his 18 months as a criminal defense lawyer represented three defendants in capital murder cases.
Josh is an active Democrat, serving as a delegate to the 1996 Democratic National Convention. He serves on numerous local committees and was appointed by Oregon's Governor and confirmed by the State Senate as a member of the Oregon Criminal Justice Commission. He serves on the Board of Directors of the Animal Legal Defense Fund and the University of Oregon Law School Alumni Association.
He is a frequent guest on national radio and television programs discussing the criminal justice system and is in great demand as a speaker on the nature of the relationship between popular culture, the media and the law. He has been invited to speak at venues from the United States Senate, to the European Parliament, to the Mexican Reviera, to Evansville, Indiana and many other cities. A more detailed profile appears on the NDAA website.
Please visit Mr. Marquis’s blog at: Josh Marquis.
Animal Abuse & Its Association with Other Violent Crimes
Prosecutors, law enforcement professionals, advocacy groups who work on behalf of victims of elder abuse, child abuse and domestic violence all recognize the undeniable association between crimes against animals and crimes against people.
Animal Abuse and Its Connection to Serial Killers, Kids who Kill Kids and Other Violent Criminals
Mahatma Gandhi said, "the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals." The truth in this statement should prompt police, investigators and prosecutors to vigorously investigate and prosecute – to the fullest degree possible – those who abuse animals in America. While cruelty to animals is a crime in all 50 states, and carries a felony sentence in 43 states plus the District of Columbia for severe animal abuse and 48 states for felony level dog fighting offenses – has, in the past, been a crime that is rarely investigated and prosecuted. Fortunately, this is now changing. The well-worn excuse by many law enforcement officials – that “it’s just a dog,” and “we should be focusing on crimes against people” -- shows a frightening lack of understanding of the ramifications of animal cruelty and its insidious affects on the animal’s “human family,” and other law abiding citizens. Animal cruelty can be linked to the vast majority of serial killers, many habitual violent offenders, and most children and teens who kill.
If we pay attention to children and youth who perform acts of cruelty on animals and take immediate action to stop their behavior, future crimes can be prevented and lives may be saved. Here is a very short list, that’s part of a very long list, of examples of adult serial killers – and young killers -- who predicted their futures by torturing and killing animals in their early years. Their behavior seems to have been ignored. Had someone helped them by taking their animal abuse seriously, and sought the help of law enforcement and others who understand the seriousness of this behavior, who knows how many lives could have been saved?
* The school shootings that took place between 1997 and 2001 in: Pearl, MS; West Paducah, KY; Jonesbobo, AK; Springfield, OR; Littleton, CO; Conyers, GA; and San Diego, CA ALL contain a common element. Prior to killing their classmates and teachers, ALL of the boys involved in these school shootings had performed acts of animal cruelty such as: shooting dogs, setting cats on fire, blowing up cows and killing other small animals, prior to killing humans.
* Albert DeSalvo, The Boston Strangler killed 13 women. When he was a boy he put cats and dogs into orange crates and shot arrows through the slats to kill them.
* Ted Bundy, was a serial rapist and killer of at least 30 women. As a youth he tortured and killed animals.
* Jeffrey Dahmer, killed and cannibalized at least 17 people. As a boy, he killed and impaled the heads of cats and dogs on sticks.
* Dennis Rader, the BTK killer in Wichita, KS, killed at least 10 people. He abused and killed animals for practice prior to killing people.
The lesson is that many potential killers can be recognized in their youth. Boys who torture and kill animals are not just “boys being boys” or “going through a phase.” Animal abuse is a serious warning sign. As anthropologist Margaret Mead once noted, “One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a child is to kill or torture an animal and get away with it.” As shown above, the results of doing little or nothing are chilling.
In what way does this: Mahatma Gandhi said, "the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals",
or this: "Animal cruelty can be linked to the vast majority of serial killers, many habitual violent offenders, and most children and teens who kill."
or this: "ALL of the boys involved in these school shootings had performed acts of animal cruelty such as: shooting dogs, setting cats on fire, blowing up cows and killing other small animals, prior to killing humans."
or this: “One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a child is to kill or torture an animal and get away with it.” (all taken from the article you posted, Victoria)
equate to your statement, "I strongly feel a dog, cat, mouse or bird is less important than our own human children."??
The article does nothing more but say we have to prevent, stop and punish those children who are cruel to animals. By doing this, the article implies that we will give them a stronger sense of morality and life values.
It says nothing about animals being less important than children. I said in my last post, "that we should look to save our own first." I would further exemplify this by stating that if I was given the choice of saving a child or saving an animal, I would choose to save the child. It is a natural choice. I wouldn't need to even think about it for a second. I would rather do both but life doesn't always give us choices.
To say that animals are less important than humans reeks of the same prejudice by which we in the West enslaved Africans because we thought of them as animals.
* The school shootings that took place between 1997 and 2001 in: Pearl, MS; West Paducah, KY; Jonesbobo, AK; Springfield, OR; Littleton, CO; Conyers, GA; and San Diego, CA ALL contain a common element. Prior to killing their classmates and teachers, ALL of the boys involved in these school shootings had performed acts of animal cruelty such as: shooting dogs, setting cats on fire, blowing up cows and killing other small animals, prior to killing humans.
* Albert DeSalvo, The Boston Strangler killed 13 women. When he was a boy he put cats and dogs into orange crates and shot arrows through the slats to kill them.
* Ted Bundy, was a serial rapist and killer of at least 30 women. As a youth he tortured and killed animals.
* Jeffrey Dahmer, killed and cannibalized at least 17 people. As a boy, he killed and impaled the heads of cats and dogs on sticks.
* Dennis Rader, the BTK killer in Wichita, KS, killed at least 10 people. He abused and killed animals for practice prior to killing people.
Not disagreeing with harsher punishment for animal cruelty but simply out of curiosity since they were brought up as proof positive:
Were these people convicted of these acts as children, or did we find out about it after they'd become serial killers?
Hardly a very friendly way to reply to my post by telling me to wake up! So both Victoria and Openmind have firmed up my feelings on the subject, which is to say begin with our children. Your words simply confirm that it is they who are the most important.
Teach our children to treat animals positively, and they will stop abusing animals and the cycle will eventually cease.
Comparing my thoughts to the prejudice against Africans in the past is over emotive. It is also history and we are speaking of the present.
I have loved many animals in my life, horses, cats, dogs and birds. It is humanity itself, at its best, which nourishes animal life. But, I would never place any animal over that of a human child.
Vesuvius;1193640 wrote: Hardly a very friendly way to reply to my post by telling me to wake up! So both Victoria and Openmind have firmed up my feelings on the subject, which is to say begin with our children. Your words simply confirm that it is they who are the most important.
Teach our children to treat animals positively, and they will stop abusing animals and the cycle will eventually cease.
Comparing my thoughts to the prejudice against Africans in the past is over emotive. It is also history and we are speaking of the present.
I have loved many animals in my life, horses, cats, dogs and birds. It is humanity itself, at its best, which nourishes animal life. But, I would never place any animal over that of a human child.
I don't for the life of me see how my words confirm that children are more important, but I won't argue with you further. I will say that I believe that we will be eradicated if we don't start treating this planet and all it contains more respectfully. Religion might argue that we are the dominant species, but nature doesn't give a hoot what we think.
There is a direct link betwwe animal cruelty and domestic violence, abuse, murder and serial killing. So when you talk about taking care of our own a good place to start would be at the first crime the perpetrator committed, most often animal abuse. Possibly if some of these had been punished more severly or given proper physc work ups their later crimes could have been prevented.
However because these are seen as lesser crimes or the 'its just a dog' syndrome they are often pushed aside allowing the monster to progress to newer victims.
My op was talking about the weak and inadequate sentecing given to those who abuse and mistreat animals.
If Joey had had two legs instead of four his killers would have gone away for life but 'its just a dog'syndrome strikes again and they get communiy service, its interesting to note this couple have two children...If one of them had been given the same treatment as Joey no one would have dared say 'its just a baby'
time after time here on FG I see that posts about animal cruelty are being de-railed...why.? :-5
If you are not interested in the subject dont post but please dont try to play down the importence of the subject matter or belittle our feelings on the matter.
So both Victoria and Openmind have firmed up my feelings on the subject, which is to say begin with our children. Your words simply confirm that it is they who are the most important.