DEBATE ---Who WON??

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:45 pm

Well. There were no earth shattering comments. But........what do you think???????????????

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:48 pm

Ronald Reagan won

..................Hands down

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:25 pm

Neither won

It seemed Obama was assertive at the begining

McCain stood firm, did alot of name dropping.

It bothered me when Obama kept saying"you right - your right" to or regarding McCain's statement.

Was that showing Obama can play noce & share? or is Obama, I don't know??

I enjoy watching body language -

as Jab said - it was painful.

Patsy

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:02 pm

well as far as i can see we are screwed either way.

watcher · Post by **watcher** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:45 am

Where's Samuel S Samuelson when you need him?

watch these if you don't know what I'm talking about

Down and out in the whitehouse part 1

Part two

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

It's a good idea to read the info the user's put up on these vids.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:53 am

Obama was poised, of course hed been standing in front of a mirror the last 5 days working on that.

Mcant was a doofus as usual.

Tie.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:37 am

Question: How will this $700b bailout affect your expenditures.

Obama: We still need to increase spending.

McCain: I'll cut spending by vetoing earmarks.

*newsflash John: that's not cutting spending, that's stopping increases. There's a difference*

Result: We lose.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:53 am

IDK. I watched the Phillies game.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:05 am

Mr McCain made a major error when he argued that "as a result of the surge, US military strategy is succeeding" in Iraq and that "We are winning in Iraq and we will come home with victory and with honour". However long the US spins out their departure, the acid test will be whether the regime they leave behind thanks them or spits on their footprints. Nobody in their right mind thinks there will be any thanks, surely. Victory is unachievable and honour was abandoned from Day 1 - once it's gone it's gone.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:18 am

southern yankee;997997 wrote: Well. There were no earth shattering comments. But........what do you think???????????????

There really does not seem to be any objectivity by those pundits reporting on the debate. Those that favor Obama for President thought he won the debate and those that favor McCain thought he won. I don't favor either one and thought the debate was a draw.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:21 am

JAB;998002 wrote: They both have a difficult time speaking when they don't have prepared text. Neither seems to think well on his feet in order to answer the question. It was painful to watch.

Interesting comment JAB---makes me wonder if we were watching the same debate. I thought that neither one had a difficult time speaking and were able to articulate their answers fairly well.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:33 am

JAB;998491 wrote: Watching them try to explain the $700B bailout and what they'd do and cut back on etc was cringe-inducing. McCain kept bringing in comments unrelated to the topic and Obama kept tripping over his words, having difficulty reading his own text amidst his stops and stammers. I watched for 20mins and had to turn it off. Same ole same ole posturing on both sides. As an Independent, I'm no further convinced on either one.

It was boring to watch so thank gawd I had the alternative to watch baseball instead. Although I do want to watch Biden against Palin on Thursday.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:45 am

qsducks;998495 wrote: It was boring to watch so thank gawd I had the alternative to watch baseball instead. Although I do want to watch Biden against Palin on Thursday.
Biden'll lose that one. He's hamstrung by etiquette. If he acts the gentleman she'll eat him alive and come off as a strong woman unafraid to go after the old boys network. If he treats her as he would any other opponent, he's the meanie beating up on a girl.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:47 am

Accountable;998502 wrote: Biden'll lose that one. He's hamstrung by etiquette. If he acts the gentleman she'll eat him alive and come off as a strong woman unafraid to go after the old boys network. If he treats her as he would any other opponent, he's the meanie beating up on a girl.

I hope he kicks her a$$

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:14 am

I thought it was painful to watch for one reason it only made it very apparent that well will be screwed either way. :-5

The debate on Thursday might be more fun to watch, when was the last time you were interested in listening the the VP's debate? :wah:

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:28 am

spot;998304 wrote: Mr McCain made a major error when he argued that "as a result of the surge, US military strategy is succeeding" in Iraq and that "We are winning in Iraq and we will come home with victory and with honour". However long the US spins out their departure, the acid test will be whether the regime they leave behind thanks them or spits on their footprints. Nobody in their right mind thinks there will be any thanks, surely. Victory is unachievable and honour was abandoned from Day 1 - once it's gone it's gone.

I agree with you.

Weird !

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:35 am

I'm with Carla, I think the VP's debate will be much more interesting to watch.

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:35 pm

qsducks;998495 wrote: It was boring to watch so thank gawd I had the alternative to watch baseball instead. Although I do want to watch Biden against Palin on Thursday. baseball?? which team?? I am a die heart Cubbies fan.

Bridget · Post by **Bridget** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:45 pm

Patsy I agree with every thing you said. The debate was just plain boring. What did we learn? Not a lotta. I hope Joe Biden gives Sarah a real run for her money. She is so full of herself. :-5

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:58 pm

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:04 pm

With Gordon Brown joining the bailout talks, who will take advice from who?

I lost faith in Gordon Brown over the past year but he does have a decade of financial experience. His time as Chancellor of the Exchequer to Blair means he could have sound advice. I was appalled to read in the British Press & on the BBC of Obama "Political point scoring" against McCain when McCain called for a suspension of the election campaign in order to stay in Capital Hill & thrash it out to resolve the financial situation. Bush seems to be struggling & thankfull that some other mug has to sort this mess out. Some Brit pundits are annoyed that Brown has flown to the aid of America to offer yet another bail out package when our own country is suffering financial collapse with the Bradford & Bingley bank on the point of collapse. Our Government may be useless on home policies but i have to say that I was always proud Of Blair & Brown to be the firt to support America in everything. I suppose if i have to be patriotic, I have to say, Brown is over there with you sorting it out offering a package & getting his hands dirty. I'm a little bit proud. Brown abandoned a 2 day visit that was supposed to be about global development to switch to international finance talks with Bush tomorrow.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:11 pm

Gordon Brown actually gave an awesome speech to the UN. If he keeps talking like that, he'll have us voting for him.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:25 pm

Actually as far as Bradford & Bingley go the government move isn't that bad. They've refused to provide any reimbursement for the shareholders - it's gone to zero value; all of the deposit accounts have been handed wholesale to other banks to continue without a hitch through the existing Bradford & Bingley branches and they bundled the mortgages into the Northern Rock portfolio. How painless can it get? Oh - they fired the board and management too, as far as I can see.

It's the final nail in Thatcher's privatisation of the Friendly Societies. Every last one which went down her road has now died, may she rot for the theft and destruction of them.The nationalisation and break up of Bradford & Bingley will represent a momentous event in the history of British banking, because it will mean that every building society that floated on the stock market in the wave of demutualisations of the past two decades will either have collapsed or been sold to a conventional bank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... lised.html

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:21 pm

spot;998924 wrote: Actually as far as Bradford & Bingley go the government move isn't that bad. They've refused to provide any reimbursement for the shareholders - it's gone to zero value; all of the deposit accounts have been handed wholesale to other banks to continue without a hitch through the existing Bradford & Bingley branches and they bundled the mortgages into the Northern Rock portfolio. How painless can it get? Oh - they fired the board and management too, as far as I can see.

It's the final nail in Thatcher's privatisation of the Friendly Societies. Every last one which went down her road has now died, may she rot for the theft and destruction of them.The nationalisation and break up of Bradford & Bingley will represent a momentous event in the history of British banking, because it will mean that every building society that floated on the stock market in the wave of demutualisations of the past two decades will either have collapsed or been sold to a conventional bank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... lised.html

I just read about the Northern Rock rescue. The Daily Mail qotes today " The High street banks have become so suspicious of each other's safety that they are refusing to lend to each other and would rather place deposits with the bank of England" Typical.

There is too much to quote but Brown's proposals actually look good.

Do you think Bush, McCain & Obana will listen to Brown?

They will have to accept the money from Britain but will Gordon Brown's experience in finance help in reality to the U.S. financial situation?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:53 pm

oscar;998988 wrote: I just read about the Northern Rock rescue. The Daily Mail qotes today " The High street banks have become so suspicious of each other's safety that they are refusing to lend to each other and would rather place deposits with the bank of England" Typical.

There is too much to quote but Brown's proposals actually look good.

Do you think Bush, McCain & Obana will listen to Brown?

They will have to accept the money from Britain but will Gordon Brown's experience in finance help in reality to the U.S. financial situation?
A deeper question must be answered first: will restoring the banks really be helpful, or will it just prolong a bad situation?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:09 pm

Accountable;999058 wrote: A deeper question must be answered first: will restoring the banks really be helpful, or will it just prolong a bad situation? I think with the money for the bailout, must come some change to regulate banks more closely from government. Gordon Brown has spoke of such changes to regulate banks & lenders. One thing is for sure, it's a heck of a mess for "President McCain" to inherit. It can't happen again & that includes the financial situation in Britain.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:10 pm

Accountable;999058 wrote: A deeper question must be answered first: will restoring the banks really be helpful, or will it just prolong a bad situation?

You might note that in the British model the errant banks are destroyed, their shareholders punished and the boards dissolved. Some mortgage repayments have been renegotiated where that's helped.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:13 pm

oscar;999065 wrote: I think with the money for the bailout, must come some change to regulate banks more closely from government. Gordon Brown has spoke of such changes to regulate banks & lenders. One thing is for sure, it's a heck of a mess for "President McCain" to inherit. It can't happen again & that includes the financial situation in Britain.
Some of the regulation that was lifted needs to be restored. It's the government that needs to be more tightly regulated and kept from trying to manipulate a market that works best when left alone.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:14 pm

spot;999066 wrote: You might note that in the British model the errant banks are destroyed, their shareholders punished and the boards dissolved. Some mortgage repayments have been renegotiated where that's helped.Punish the shareholders in this case for what, exactly? No laws were broken.

eta: Keep in mind that the shareholders include anyone with a mutual fund or retirement account.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:17 pm

Accountable;999068 wrote: Punish the shareholders in this case for what, exactly? No laws were broken.For placing their confidence in an incompetent board of directors and not replacing them.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:48 pm

spot;999069 wrote: For placing their confidence in an incompetent board of directors and not replacing them. With all the blame being pointed at government we have to remember that consumer greed has also created this problem. Britain is well reported for people who just live beyong their means. We have students in debt to approx £6,000 while they are at college or Uni. Suicides are being reported due to people massively in debt on the credit cards. I'm sorry to be so harsh but a lot of these people have brought it on themselves. We have to have mortgages but the spending on credit in Britain is massive. The banks & lenders have thrown more & more credit at the public & people just spend what they can not afford. We have one bank. It's called "Oscar's" bank. Yes, it's the banks fault for giving people so much plastic credit, but no-one put a gun to their head & made them spend it to the max.

I have a home shopping catalogue which i rarely use. I genuinely forgot to pay it & i got a nasty letter. I paid it off only to recieve a letter saying that i had my credit limit raised--- stupid.

Once the bailout is finalised & toxic debts bought off, banks need to be heavilly regulated as to what they offer to people in borrowing.

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:09 pm

southern yankee;998855 wrote: baseball?? which team?? I am a die heart Cubbies fan.

Yeah SY! Go Cubbies!! You fit right in with me and floppy!

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:38 pm

shelbell;999101 wrote: Yeah SY! Go Cubbies!! You fit right in with me and floppy!

hey girl!!!! My dad was 86. never got see them win lt all.

i am a true die heart FAN:)

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:44 pm

Only one thing I have to say about Palin. She has said several times. she is middle class. if she is what you call MIDDLE CLASS. I am DIRT POOR. Really kind of saddens me. What is middle class these days?? Being a Governor is middle class?? that is news to me. I better go apply for welfare.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:53 pm

spot;999069 wrote: For placing their confidence in an incompetent board of directors and not replacing them.
Oh I see. Well, in the USA the gov't generally needs an actual law to be actually broken before it can punish someone. I wasn't aware Parliament could act on something so arbitrary as making a bad decision...... unless making a bad decision is a criminal act in the UK.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:20 pm

southern yankee;999157 wrote: Only one thing I have to say about Palin. She has said several times. she is middle class. if she is what you call MIDDLE CLASS. I am DIRT POOR. Really kind of saddens me. What is middle class these days?? Being a Governor is middle class?? that is news to me. I better go apply for welfare.

Her roots are middle class. She was born and raised middle class. Some people move from one class to another based on a number of factors. I was not always the comfortable, wise, erudite, sophisticated, intelligent and humble human being that I now am, as I came from less than middle class.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:53 pm

Accountable;999159 wrote: Oh I see. Well, in the USA the gov't generally needs an actual law to be actually broken before it can punish someone. I wasn't aware Parliament could act on something so arbitrary as making a bad decision...... unless making a bad decision is a criminal act in the UK.

It's not a government punishment! The shareholders were responsible for not replacing an incompetent board and the company share value is consequently zero because the company folded, it's central core capitalism I'm talking about!

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:48 am

Now this is what it is all about: You need to watch it all:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:56 am

spot;999066 wrote: You might note that in the British model the errant banks are destroyed, their shareholders punished and the boards dissolved. Some mortgage repayments have been renegotiated where that's helped.

spot;999201 wrote: It's not a government punishment! The shareholders were responsible for not replacing an incompetent board and the company share value is consequently zero because the company folded, it's central core capitalism I'm talking about!
That's the problem with using passive voice. You leave your audience to guess what you're referring to. Try using active voice more often. It's less ambiguous.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:36 am

Accountable;998502 wrote: Biden'll lose that one. He's hamstrung by etiquette. If he acts the gentleman she'll eat him alive and come off as a strong woman unafraid to go after the old boys network. If he treats her as he would any other opponent, he's the meanie beating up on a girl.

I'm interested to know how the "power-ful"men do treat "power-ful" ladies. Does a code of etiquette exist? Can each just treat each other with respect and just answer questions as honestly and straightforward as possible? If we can deal with the black/white issue, we can deal with the male/female issue.

Wait a minute, le't surprise the powers-that-be, and not make it an issue of it at all.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:52 am

along-for-the-ride;999661 wrote: I'm interested to know how the "power-ful"men do treat "power-ful" ladies. Does a code of etiquette exist? Can each just treat each other with respect and just answer questions as honestly and straightforward as possible? If we can deal with the black/white issue, we can deal with the male/female issue.

Wait a minute, le't surprise the powers-that-be, and not make it an issue of it at all.
I speak straight to the point when in such conversations. I mean it as a sign of respect, and I think it is always received that way, at least right now I don't remember it not going well. I'm sure in a one-on-one both of them can be completely straight with each other without being or feeling condescending, mean, or anything but on an equal plane. The question is, will the voters watching feel the same way?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:49 pm

Accountable;999695 wrote: I speak straight to the point when in such conversations. I mean it as a sign of respect, and I think it is always received that way, at least right now I don't remember it not going well. I'm sure in a one-on-one both of them can be completely straight with each other without being or feeling condescending, mean, or anything but on an equal plane. The question is, will the voters watching feel the same way? Well said that man!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:03 pm

spot;998924 wrote: Actually as far as Bradford & Bingley go the government move isn't that bad. They've refused to provide any reimbursement for the shareholders - it's gone to zero value; all of the deposit accounts have been handed wholesale to other banks to continue without a hitch through the existing Bradford & Bingley branches and they bundled the mortgages into the Northern Rock portfolio. How painless can it get? Oh - they fired the board and management too, as far as I can see.

It's the final nail in Thatcher's privatisation of the Friendly Societies. Every last one which went down her road has now died, may she rot for the theft and destruction of them.The nationalisation and break up of Bradford & Bingley will represent a momentous event in the history of British banking, because it will mean that every building society that floated on the stock market in the wave of demutualisations of the past two decades will either have collapsed or been sold to a conventional bank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... lised.html

What happened to Northern Rock?

Post by **spot** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:02 am

oscar;1003316 wrote: What happened to Northern Rock?

The same thing. The deposit accounts went to Santander, the mortgages to an administration unit within the Bank of England where the government will own them until house prices recover or the mortgage is paid off. It's a sort of leper colony for smelly mortgages.

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:23 am

Thursday will be the vice pres. debate. i hope all the cards will be put on the table. Maybe with these 2. i will finally understand what the heck is going on.:wah: the first pres. debate was, well let's just say. uninformative to say the least.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:21 pm

southern yankee;1003593 wrote: Thursday will be the vice pres. debate. i hope all the cards will be put on the table. For anyone in the UK who'd like to watch (it's an hour and a half long) it's available now at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7649832.stm

I'm not sure whether that will play for anyone outside of the UK, I doubt it.

There's a full transcript on the New York Times at http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/presi ... ebate.html and a video there as well.

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:40 am

I think Palin did an excellent job, but after a couple of bad "gotcha" interviews I think expectations were low. She got back to the Palin from the RNC and was very vocal, down to earth, strong and didn't back down. I'm hoping this gives McCain a boost in the polls in the next couple of days.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:44 am

shelbell;1006395 wrote: very vocal, down to earth, strong and didn't back downIf I had to draw up a shortlist of attributes I'd like to see in a prospective President, they'd be the absolute reverse of every one of those! Quiet, visionary, considerate and compromising would suit me fine thank you.