Russia invades Georgia

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:09 pm

Today as the world watches China launch the Olympics, Russia invades Georgia and two old allies are now at war.

http://www.pennwellblogs.com/mae/2008/0 ... hduke.html

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:52 pm

It is a scarey escalation, they say many people have died already, and fled the area.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:22 pm

I wonder how forcefully the UN will condemn this action ... if they say anything at all, that is.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:52 pm

Oh, this is bad. :-3

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:07 pm

Ya this could be bad, Georgia has recently build good relations with the USA as the US are trying to build a defence system in Eastern Europe, including the recent agreement to put missiles in Czech Republic. Russia is not happy and is feeling that the West & NATO is getting a little to close to their borders.

I hope this doesn’t get out of hand.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:33 am

fuzzy butt;945776 wrote: Ahh doesn't it take you back? To Cuba I mean.

why does the US want to put missles on the russian borders?

Why did russia want to put missles in cuba?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:42 am

I think that the georgians have obviously miscalculated here about the Russians resolve to intervene militarily, its a bad situation for everyone involved. To be honest the US will have to step well away from this one, as the potential consequences would be too bad to even think about getting involved in any way, and I am sure they will stay well out of it, aside from strong diplomatic protests. The Georgians will not be happy about that, but this is why using force is always a very very risky thing.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:12 am

Galbally;946204 wrote: To be honest the US will have to step well away from this one,
Step away?? Hell this is your party. I think we've crashed enough of them uninvited. We need to stay home and watch this one live on BBC international or something.

Nope, no more invasions for us, no more preemptive strikes. No way no how.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:27 am

For clarity Georgia is not part of the EU, they are only in recent year’s dependent of Russia rule so this is not technically 'our party' either. No, this has no direct relation to the US with regards to involvement, but don’t kid yourself, any military action that Russia takes against another country, the USA will be very interested in. The States have military posts all over the place and only recently have build strong relations with Georgia as they have with other break away old Soviet Republics.

‘No more invasions or pre-emptive strikes'? Well now that will just depend on the results of the up coming US elections won’t it?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:33 am

mikeinie;946371 wrote: For clarity Georgia is not part of the EU, they are only in recent year’s dependent of Russia rule so this is not technically 'our party' either. No, this has no direct relation to the US with regards to involvement, but don’t kid yourself, any military action that Russia takes against another country, the USA will be very interested in. The States have military posts all over the place and only recently have build strong relations with Georgia as they have with other break away old Soviet Republics.

‘No more invasions or pre-emptive strikes'? Well now that will just depend on the results of the up coming US elections won’t it?
You mean the election between I'm-Not-Bush 1 and I'm-Not-Bush 2?

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:36 am

Accountable;946372 wrote: You mean the election between I'm-Not-Bush 1 and I'm-Not-Bush 2?

:wah:

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:38 am

JAB;946419 wrote: Nearly 2000 dead and 40,000 refugees crossing the border into Russia?

No, this is not good and the timing of the invasion as the Olympics are just starting helped keep this off the front page.

I agree, I say the timing was deliberate.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:08 am

hoppy;946199 wrote: Why did russia want to put missles in cuba?

Because the americans placed nuclear missiles in Turkey aimed at russian cities. You knew that surely?

posted by miekienie

For clarity Georgia is not part of the EU, they are only in recent year’s dependent of Russia rule so this is not technically 'our party' either. No, this has no direct relation to the US with regards to involvement, but don’t kid yourself, any military action that Russia takes against another country, the USA will be very interested in. The States have military posts all over the place and only recently have build strong relations with Georgia as they have with other break away old Soviet Republics.

‘No more invasions or pre-emptive strikes'? Well now that will just depend on the results of the up coming US elections won’t it?

Luckily Georgia never got around to joining nato either which is probably just as well or we'd find ourselves drawn in to war.

posted by jester

[QUOTE]OK here we go again...

The US has very little history in this region, this is a EU problem... and ya'll better step up to the plate and start negotiating...

I'll bet you this is a behind the scenes ploy to attack and control the last of the EU pipelines to western Europe. The move by Russia to send 150 tanks is a huge slam against the peaceful EU. When the dust settles there wont be any clear provacateer in this, both sides will claim the other started it, and if I understand the region correctly in term of geography the Russians are attacking in the wrong location to fight a rebel outbreak? It sure looks like Russia has attacked 'cities' and civilians and not just engaged rebel entities.

Bottom line- Putin created his excuse to control the pipeline.

Yep it's all about oil again. Every war you can think of has economic reasons somewhere as the root cause. Usually control of source raw materials like oil.

Moscow supports South Ossetia, which has had de facto independence from Georgia since 1992 after a bloody war. Many people in the region have Russian citizenship. Georgia claims South Ossetia as part of its territory-because of the oil. Other parts of georgia that are ethnically russian want to break away as well. Russia is, from their point iof view, assisting south Ossetia. The Georgians seemingly attacked first breaking the truce.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/au ... ia.russia3

It's easy to forget Russia WAS an empire created and held together by force, now all the bits are exerting their nationalism again-or patriotic love for their country and race if you prefer. Tribal warfare 21st century style.

I think everybody should just keep out of it. Any US or Nato military involvement will lead to full scale war the like we haven't seen since ww2. The last thing we need is sabre rattling cos they will end up being drawn.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... ia.ossetia

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:17 pm

gmc;946491 wrote: Because the americans placed nuclear missiles in Turkey aimed at russian cities. You knew that surely?

posted by miekienie

Luckily Georgia never got around to joining nato either which is probably just as well or we'd find ourselves drawn in to war.

posted by jester

Yep it's all about oil again. Every war you can think of has economic reasons somewhere as the root cause. Usually control of source raw materials like oil.

Moscow supports South Ossetia, which has had de facto independence from Georgia since 1992 after a bloody war. Many people in the region have Russian citizenship. Georgia claims South Ossetia as part of its territory-because of the oil. Other parts of georgia that are ethnically russian want to break away as well. Russia is, from their point iof view, assisting south Ossetia. The Georgians seemingly attacked first breaking the truce.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/au ... ia.russia3

It's easy to forget Russia WAS an empire created and held together by force, now all the bits are exerting their nationalism again-or patriotic love for their country and race if you prefer. Tribal warfare 21st century style.

I think everybody should just keep out of it. Any US or Nato military involvement will lead to full scale war the like we haven't seen since ww2. The last thing we need is sabre rattling cos they will end up being drawn.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... ia.ossetia

Good post

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:01 pm

Accountable;946294 wrote: Step away?? Hell this is your party. I think we've crashed enough of them uninvited. We need to stay home and watch this one live on BBC international or something.

Nope, no more invasions for us, no more preemptive strikes. No way no how.

I'm not blaming the US here at all Acc, I'm just commenting on the fact that the Georgians seems to naively believe that they will be protected by the US (with whom they have strong relations), or the EU which also of course is not going to do anything to directly antagonize the Russians on this issue, aside from trying to ensure that the Russians don't invade Georgia in its totality, but simply occupy Abzhazia and South Ossetia. The Georgian President bears a heavy responsibility in this, as it was wildly unrealistic of him to think that either the US or Europe could directly intervene in this situation, as that would be extremely provocative to the Russians, and we all know what the consequences could be.

I'm presuming that once the Russians have destroyed the Georgian military, and created the defacto secession of the two breakaway provinces, they will then draw back. The Georgians have unfortunately gravely miscalculated, and the Russians have made quite clear they are not going to countenance any further expansion of NATO into what they consider their sphere of influence, or allow these Caucasian republics to flirt too heavily with the Western powers. To be honest, I think that NATO has gotten that message loud and clear.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:05 am

Russia 'ends Georgia operation'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7555858.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/default.stm

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:47 am

gmc's source wrote:

The Russian move also followed strong comments from US President George W Bush, in which he spoke directly of concerns that Russia was planning to topple Georgia's pro-Western president.

"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighbouring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people," he said.

"Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st Century."

Our correspondent says she listened in amazement to Mr Bush's strongly-worded statement, adding that Mr Medvedev's announcement must be seen in the light of the US president's words.I count us lucky Russia didn't call our bluff.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:31 am

hoppy;946199 wrote: Why did russia want to put missles in cuba?

Because the US had just put missiles into Turkey? It was part of an ongoing escalation between the two sides.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:38 am

Galbally;948748 wrote: I'm not blaming the US here at all Acc, I'm just commenting on the fact that the Georgians seems to naively believe that they will be protected by the US (with whom they have strong relations), or the EU which also of course is not going to do anything to directly antagonize the Russians on this issue, aside from trying to ensure that the Russians don't invade Georgia in its totality, but simply occupy Abzhazia and South Ossetia. The Georgian President bears a heavy responsibility in this, as it was wildly unrealistic of him to think that either the US or Europe could directly intervene in this situation, as that would be extremely provocative to the Russians, and we all know what the consequences could be.

I'm presuming that once the Russians have destroyed the Georgian military, and created the defacto secession of the two breakaway provinces, they will then draw back. The Georgians have unfortunately gravely miscalculated, and the Russians have made quite clear they are not going to countenance any further expansion of NATO into what they consider their sphere of influence, or allow these Caucasian republics to flirt too heavily with the Western powers. To be honest, I think that NATO has gotten that message loud and clear.

Why should they get Abzhazia as well?

I can see the logic of them countering the Georgians in South Ossetia but how do they justify extending the conflict to Abzhazia.

Agree the Georgians totally miscalculated.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 am

Accountable;946294 wrote: Step away?? Hell this is your party. I think we've crashed enough of them uninvited. We need to stay home and watch this one live on BBC international or something.

Nope, no more invasions for us, no more preemptive strikes. No way no how.

I second that.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:40 am

Accountable;946294 wrote: Step away?? Hell this is your party. I think we've crashed enough of them uninvited. We need to stay home and watch this one live on BBC international or something.

Nope, no more invasions for us, no more preemptive strikes. No way no how.

Not to worry they will not step to anyone who have the means to fight back . :wah: So you can relax ok

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:12 am

Bryn Mawr;949653 wrote: Why should they get Abzhazia as well?

I can see the logic of them countering the Georgians in South Ossetia but how do they justify extending the conflict to Abzhazia.

Agree the Georgians totally miscalculated.

Because the real-politik situation is that following their military victory they now control both provinces, and its unlikely that they will give the Georgians back control of them following the recent fighting. Its more likely that they will back the seperatists in these areas in calling for full independence, as independent states perhaps in the CIS, and using the example of the European backing of Kosovan independence from Serbia as a precedent. Which the Russians were furious about, make no mistake. This is an extremely bitter pill for the Georgians, but unfortunately the Russians now hold all the cards, its pointless to think otherwise or to grandstand.

To be honest, unless both provinces are allowed to go their own way, I can't see there being any way that the rest of Georgia could ever be allowed into NATO or the EU, as its simply too dangerous. I think that the Russians would probably be less antagonistic to Georgia (minus these two provinces), being allowed, at least part way, into the western fold. Russia may not be the Soviet Union, but it is still a great power, and one that is growing in confidence again, (this is not necessarily a bad thing, but the West has definitely tended to underestimate Russia, and Russian senstivities in recent years).

Russia is also country that has a huge sense of grievance over what it sees as Western expansion in places such as the Ukraine and the Caucuses, (and don't forget, that last time Western Europeans visited the Ukraine and the Caucuses it was in Panzers with Wehrmacht and SS uniforms on, so the Russians are naturally a bit touchy on these subjects). So the West needs to respect this and acknowledge that there are issues upon which the Russians will not be pushed around on, and as history shows us, while you mustn't appear weak to the Russians, you antagonize them at your peril (which is equally true of the Americans who are also not people to be trifled with, if you happen to live in what they consider their "near abroad" as history demonstrates).

The next big issue to my mind is going to be Ukraine, this is even more tricky than Georgia, and all sides will have to be very, very careful in how to reconcile Ukrainians' (who live for the most part in the west of the country) desire to be part of the Western European family, and Ukraine's Russian population's (who live mostly in the east) desire to retain strong links with the Russian federation. The added complication is that of the Crimea (which is almost totally Russian), and also access to the Black Sea ports.

These are geopolitical problems of the first order, and they cannot be ignored. The West shouldn't be afraid to support former Soviet Republics that want to develop more western societies and links to the EU, but at the same time, we have to respect Russia's position, as well as its enormous economic and military power. Europe in particular needs Russia as a strategic partner, certainly not an enemy, that would be disasterous for everyone.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:49 am

Accountable;949598 wrote: I count us lucky Russia didn't call our bluff.

You're not wrong there.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:57 am

Daniyal;949761 wrote: Not to worry they will not step to anyone who have the means to fight back . :wah: So you can relax ok

I am not sure who "they" are, expand if you would, sir.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:17 am

Galbally;949875 wrote: I am not sure who "they" are, expand if you would, sir.

Is that a trick question ?

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:29 am

mikeinie;945672 wrote: Today as the world watches China launch the Olympics, Russia invades Georgia and two old allies are now at war.

http://www.pennwellblogs.com/mae/2008/0 ... hduke.html

Heard somebody quip on CBC Radio that upon hearing that Russia had just invaded Georgia, George Bush responded by saying that "we will use all means necessary to defend Atlanta". :yh_rotfl

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:41 am

Richard Bell;950037 wrote: Heard somebody quip on CBC Radio that upon hearing that Russia had just invaded Georgia, George Bush responded by saying that "we will use all means necessary to defend Atlanta". :yh_rotfl

Wrong Because GB , Knows Russia Is No Iraq , Any Way They Haven't Gotten Their Foot Out Of The First Hole Yet ...

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:41 am

Bryn Mawr;949649 wrote: Because the US had just put missiles into Turkey? It was part of an ongoing escalation between the two sides.

That's right and the missiles going in to cuba was in response to american missiles in Turkey. Poker with high stakes

http://www.hpol.org/jfk/cuban/

Gripping stuff if you can be bothered listening.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:58 am

Daniyal;950009 wrote: Is that a trick question ?

Not at all, just require a clarification.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:59 am

Richard Bell;950037 wrote: Heard somebody quip on CBC Radio that upon hearing that Russia had just invaded Georgia, George Bush responded by saying that "we will use all means necessary to defend Atlanta". :yh_rotfl

Funny :rolleyes:

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:06 am

Galbally;950101 wrote: Not at all, just require a clarification.

Read post #32

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:16 am

gmc;950067 wrote: That's right and the missiles going in to cuba was in response to american missiles in Turkey. Poker with high stakes

http://www.hpol.org/jfk/cuban/

Gripping stuff if you can be bothered listening.

Don't worry, I've read lots on the subject - the ? was asking if he knew or was just being rhetorical.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:50 am

Daniyal;950123 wrote: Read post #32

OK, I got you now.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:40 am

So we come to the next stage of this thing, well thank god people have stopped dying, thats the main thing. I think Sarkozy (who was acting here in his role as President of the EU) deserves some credit for his successful ceasefire mediation attempts, though it remains to be seen what the long-term outcome will be. Also, the US has been wise enough not to get too embroiled into the conflict while letting the Russians know that they were not impressed with the incursion into Georgia proper.

Russia of course has won big time in the Caucuses here, its obvious that once the heat has gone out of the situation, Russia and the West need to sit down and discuss strategic and geopolitical issues that everyone has been ignoring for some time. The EU and Russia in particular need to agree spheres of influence along their shared frontiers, particularly in the Balkan- and Black Sea regions, while the US and Russia need to work out how the US plans for an anti-missile shield can still be developed that does not antagonize the Russians any further. What has happened over the weekend should be a sharp lesson to everyone of how quickly events can spiral out of control when issues are ignored.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:18 am

Jester;951028 wrote: Not at all, it's a straight question, which everybody has asked you at one time or another here in the garden and you can't seem to answer.

First I Wasn't Talking To You Ok , Anyway It Waste Of Time Talking To You , Because Your Allow Say Things And Get Away With Them . And Thats Because A Few Moderators! Have You Back .

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:48 am

Jester;951040 wrote: So let me get this straight...

Georgia has a sovoriegn right to its geohistorical boundries, but when Russia comes to take what they want by force, the EU, and the rest of Europe are content to just let the Russians take what they want, kill civilians at will, attack and destroy civillian infrastructure, then back out like they did nothing wrong when there is no clear indication of being provoked by georgian forces and they did it during the opening of the olympics while all eyes were focused on good will games, while Putin was sitting next to Bush, then so long as there is a ceasefire and folks arent getting killed, everybody wipes thier brow and says, 'wow, that was close?'

I hear no public outcry that Russia invaded another nation and targeted civilians... and all I heard for the past 5 years is how the US and 'bush' did the same thing in Iraq with crying and moaning?

But its ok I guess... the Russians have ended thier agression...

Lesson to be learned... if your going to use military force, do it quickly, target everything that moves, do it in a few days at most and leave the devistation to the inhabitants to recover. The typical european accepts that.

What Im hearing you folks say is pretty much that you expected georgia to be attacked and they ought to know not to mess with Russia?

Georgia belongs to the Georgians, and they don't want to be Russians. South Ossentia wanted to be Russian, because they were primised a better livelyhood if Russia keeps control of the pipeline there...

Well its your backyard, you may live with folks the way you want to.

Jester, what exactly do you suggest that we do, threaten Russia with military retaliation? I don't think anyone is suggesting we congratulate the Russians for what has happened, or allow it to go unanswered, but it has happened and we have to deal with the consequences, and in a way that ensures we don't end up in a direct military confrontation with a nation that still has the capability to destroy all life on planet Earth, however old its tanks are.

Also, this is not a straightforward political situation, and the Georgian President has badly miscalculated here, and the cost to Georgia may well be the loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it may not be very pretty and what the Russians have done is highly questionable, but thats the reality of power. However, Georgia itself is a different matter, the Russians know this and if they attempt to invade the rest of Georgia or topple its government then there is going to be very serious trouble, not least because of the Baku oil pipeline.

Make no mistake, the next moves everyone makes are going to be very, very important for the future. We shouldn't be overly afraid of the Russians, but by god we shouldn't underestimate them either Jester, we in Europe are all too aware of that (particularly if you happen to live east of the Oder). The Caucasian region of the world is very important to the Russians, (a bit like the Middle East is to you guys) and they are not just posturing about these issues, if they feel threatened enough, they will act.

I want to see a pro-Western democratic Georgia, and also a pro-Western democratic Ukraine, in fact a pro-western democratic Russia would also be nice. But tensions between Europe and Russia have increased dramatically over the last 12 months over a range of issues, (you probably don't read a lot about this, but there have been a lot of tensions, particularly with Britain) and we seriously need to take some heat out of the situation. Part of the reality of the world, is knowing when its time to back off, as much as when its time to act. The Russians know they have won the military victory, they also know there will be a price to pay as well, right now the important thing is to bring some level of calm to the region, and help the people who have been effected by the fighting. Then we can deal with the consequences.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:02 am

Jester;951211 wrote: Well said, very evenly toned and exactly the diplomatic response that will leave Russia to do exactly what it did again when it decides to do it.

Factors abound...

Kosovo as you pointed out was a huge mistake, it now gives the russians the right to 'divide' and establish nations into pro supportive regions at thier whim. I was against recognizing Kosovo as a state. In fact my personal opinion is that the US never should have been in the region in the first place.

I agree with you I'd love to see pro western nations spring up around russia, however thats exactly what has the russians so ticked off, they see, and rightly so, a region of pro western nations that have fallen under NATO or the western political influence. It scares the hell out of them becaseu nothings more contgeous than open freedom and Putin has set an air of 'extreme control' reminiscent of former soviet pressure rather than true diplomatic negotiation.

We should have left the historical geographical borders alone and let each region decide how theyd like to govern themselves after the fall of the former soviet union.

But here's the thing... Russia now holds all the cards and they know it, you or I or any diplomate in the world can tell russia what to do, or suggest it with any serious note by Putin. He can sit right next to bush and ignore him while he watches the next bout of olympic swimming. The only thing he can say is, excellent swimmers you have... mean while back home russia falsly accuses the Ukraine of being responsible for Georgia's airforce shooting down Su25's, implicating the Ukraine in the pro western expansion of Georgia. And when the US heads to talks about sanctioning Iran do you think Russia's gonna negotiate with the thought of giving up South Ossentia? I don't think so, they are gonna park thier tanks 40 miles from the Georgian capital and say 'I dare you'.

Russia won. There is no negotiation, EU nor the US, nor any regional entity can say crap.

Russia used force and said put up or shut up and the EU and the US has shut up.

I agree with you that some bad mistakes have been made, particularly Kosovo, I wouldn't start from here, but we are here now, and yes you are right, the Russians have put it up to the EU and the US, and there isn't a lot either can do about it right now. Its also likely that this isn't the end of the business in the Caucuses.

Which is why behind the scenes you can be assured that Russia on one side and the US and the EU on the other are gong to be setting out where they see their spheres of influence, and where the new lines are going to be drawn beyond which the other will not be allowed to cross, because its getting too dangerous to leave this to chance, or the locals. That's unfair on the locals, but ever was it thus.

It was always likely that the Eastward expansion of the EU, and particularly NATO was going to be a very delicate business, and so it is proving. I think there is going to be a period of taking stock, and then we shall see the ex-soviet republics falling into one camp or the other, with some possibly being partitioned, and the one I am thinking of here is Ukraine.

I think the leaders of the EU need to think hard about what happens next, as many Americans have said, this is essentially a problem effecting the European continent, and its relations with Russia, and its up to us to sort it out. Europeans have had it easy for a long time, being able to sit on the sidelines in real world power politics, and criticize the Americans when they make mistakes, however, this time the Europeans will have to be a lot more involved in what are very difficult and dangerous problems.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:05 am

Jester;951071 wrote: I havn't paid off a moderator in years...

Any moderator is free to sanction me at any point and with my sense of authority I'd accept any sanction with a Yes-sir' or Yes-maa'm'...

So far, either no mod has seen our exchanges or in dealing with you I have been civil enough to continue without sanction.But that small triangle with the red edge below the local date and time to the left of this post is a report a post function, just clcik it and report me if you feel the need.

Now back to the question at hand... if your going to say something say it, dont use inuendo, this is a discussion forum, if you want to bring up a point bring it up. That's all Galbally was asking... it would have been very simple to say that what you meant is that 'the United States wont attack Russia becaus Russia can fight back.'

See how simple that is?

Overstand one of the moderator did step to me because of what I Told you about writeing a post about the farm . But they never say anything about how you right my name , Personal I'm not worry about that but being you like to play games I was going to write a post , And Believe me you would have never forgotten what I Had written , Remember pen mighty then sword . I didn't say anything to any moderator until they step to me about what I Was saying because I'm not a Rat Nor do I have thin Skin . The Problem with people like yourself you Think you can tell people what to say how to say it . and insult them . So like I said moderator does have your back , If they didn't they would have told you about you mouth long ago . But hey . you got over this time .

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:11 am

Galbally;950192 wrote: OK, I got you now.

okkkkkkk

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:57 am

Daniyal;951358 wrote: Overstand *SNIP*. you got over this time .Great. Now that that's done, join the conversation like a normal person.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gal & Jester,

Other than semantics, what's the difference between EU "expansion", Russia's actions, China's reclaiming Tibet, and US "liberating" Iraq?