Recently here in the uk a court ruled that a school was wrong to suspend a muslim girl for not wearing their uniform. She wanted to wear her religious clothes. here is a news link about it
So I would like to know whether you agree or disagree with their decision.
In my time at school everyone was supposed to wear the same school uniform no matter what their religion. Of course everyone tried their darndest not to wear the same school uniform. Uniform is supposed to make us feel like we are one unit. Clearly we are not. Does this mean every child's human rights are being over-ruled because they have to wear uniform. I do understand the importance of religious attire but the family knew what the uniform was when they sent their child there, therefore is it right to make the school change its rules?
school Uniforms and religion
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vampress.rozz
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school Uniforms and religion
Blessed be.
school Uniforms and religion
Religon should be kept out of schools altogether, we have seperate catholic schools, now muslims want the same as they have the right to do, however, if you don't let children mix at a young age all it does is perpetuate bigotry and hatred, it's bad enough wnen they are all the same basic culture. school s hopuld be sucular, if somebody wants to bring their child up within a relogon, then do so but I do not think hey shopuld be able to prevent them learnimng about and mixing with other religons. Being tolerant does not mean you put up with bigots. Education and getting to know people of different religons is one way you can stop the next generation of bigots
Apart from that what will schools now be able to do if some kid decides they want to dress as goths, wear nose rings or whatever else they want. You can just bet it won't be the hard working kids that wantb to do well that will take advantage of this.If you can't impose some standard of dress and conduct you may as well give.
It's one of the myths that school unifoirms are expensive for poor families, it's a lot cheaper to wear hand me down blazers and trousers than it is to try and keep buying the latest fashion trend for your kids so they don't feel out of place for wearing the same things all the time. That kind of pressure to conform with your peers is a lot worse than being made to wear a school uniform.
Apart from that what will schools now be able to do if some kid decides they want to dress as goths, wear nose rings or whatever else they want. You can just bet it won't be the hard working kids that wantb to do well that will take advantage of this.If you can't impose some standard of dress and conduct you may as well give.
It's one of the myths that school unifoirms are expensive for poor families, it's a lot cheaper to wear hand me down blazers and trousers than it is to try and keep buying the latest fashion trend for your kids so they don't feel out of place for wearing the same things all the time. That kind of pressure to conform with your peers is a lot worse than being made to wear a school uniform.
school Uniforms and religion
Spot On GMC, I cannot remember the exact school but i believe it was in Hackney (poor borough of London for those who don't know) where either the head or a pupil was stabbed to death, the schools was failing on all counts and a "Super head" was brought in. the first thing she did was insist on school uniforms. the school now has a favourable Ofsted report, it is not solely down to the unifrom but it is the basic start of discipline. All children whose parents could not afford the uniform were given vouchers to purchase them and found that it was cheaper than supplying the children with the most up to date fashions they crave.
"I have done my duty. I thank God for it!"
school Uniforms and religion
I support the ruling. From what I understand, the ruling was levied because of a suit filed against a muslim school because the mandated uniform of that school was considered too immodest by one student's religious standards. Because she refused to comply, she met with penalties by the school.
Also, I don't think that dressing goth or voicing personal expression via clothing or style makes you a non-serious student. My children are not in schools that require uniforms. The school was trying to implicate rules for a required uniform, I was one of the parents who faught this. I do not like someone to tell me how I should dress and I do not think my children should, either. School is a compulsary thing, unlike chosing to work at a place that requires certain uniforms.
Also, I don't think that dressing goth or voicing personal expression via clothing or style makes you a non-serious student. My children are not in schools that require uniforms. The school was trying to implicate rules for a required uniform, I was one of the parents who faught this. I do not like someone to tell me how I should dress and I do not think my children should, either. School is a compulsary thing, unlike chosing to work at a place that requires certain uniforms.
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: Also, I don't think that dressing goth or voicing personal expression via clothing or style makes you a non-serious student.
I think I'lll just disagree with everything that Beth says this week....Just Kidding! Actually, I agree with this statement, clothing never affected my grades in school, but then I was pretty conservative.
The school was trying to implicate rules for a required uniform, I was one of the parents who faught this.
Well, after seeing what some parents let their children wear to school, I'd have to say I'm for uniforms. So far this week:
1. One kid wearing a giant marijuana leaf.
2. One girl wearing a see-through shirt.
3. Three girls wearing shirts that show more cleavage than an Academy award's dress.
4. One boy wearing a "Bite Me" t-shirt.
5. One boy wearing a "South Side Locos XIII" gangster shirt.
And it's only Monday.
I do not like someone to tell me how I should dress and I do not think my children should, either.
And yet I'm sure youhave a dress code at your job. Do you consider that "being told what to wear"? I've had literally dozens of jobs, and I've been told to wear everything from a nylon McDonald's uniform, to a suit and tie, to a flight suit.
The fact of the business world is that business is consevative, you can dress as you like, but that may impact your ability to get a job.
School is a compulsary thing, unlike chosing to work at a place that requires certain uniforms.
The goal of the eduacation system is to prepare young people for the working environment. Since they will be required to have a dress code and wear uniforms there, why is it bad to prepare them for this? Certainly teaching them to wear whatever they like in school would make it more of a shock, more tramatic when they join the business world.
Think about it.
I think I'lll just disagree with everything that Beth says this week....Just Kidding! Actually, I agree with this statement, clothing never affected my grades in school, but then I was pretty conservative.
The school was trying to implicate rules for a required uniform, I was one of the parents who faught this.
Well, after seeing what some parents let their children wear to school, I'd have to say I'm for uniforms. So far this week:
1. One kid wearing a giant marijuana leaf.
2. One girl wearing a see-through shirt.
3. Three girls wearing shirts that show more cleavage than an Academy award's dress.
4. One boy wearing a "Bite Me" t-shirt.
5. One boy wearing a "South Side Locos XIII" gangster shirt.
And it's only Monday.
I do not like someone to tell me how I should dress and I do not think my children should, either.
And yet I'm sure youhave a dress code at your job. Do you consider that "being told what to wear"? I've had literally dozens of jobs, and I've been told to wear everything from a nylon McDonald's uniform, to a suit and tie, to a flight suit.
The fact of the business world is that business is consevative, you can dress as you like, but that may impact your ability to get a job.
School is a compulsary thing, unlike chosing to work at a place that requires certain uniforms.
The goal of the eduacation system is to prepare young people for the working environment. Since they will be required to have a dress code and wear uniforms there, why is it bad to prepare them for this? Certainly teaching them to wear whatever they like in school would make it more of a shock, more tramatic when they join the business world.
Think about it.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
I do not wear a uniform. Now, the school has a dress code. The code disallows for gangster dress, see-through clothing, clothing that displays the navel, piercings such as belly rings to be visable, Clothes that display the underwear such as baggy pants that are belted below the butt, like I often see. To be honest, I see nothing wrong with the 'Bite Me' tee, either.
There is a difference between a dress code and being forced to wear a uniform and I feel as if your reply is as patronizing as your reply would be to one of your students.
And yet I'm sure youhave a dress code at your job. Do you consider that "being told what to wear"? I've had literally dozens of jobs, and I've been told to wear everything from a nylon McDonald's uniform, to a suit and tie, to a flight suit.
The fact of the business world is that business is consevative, you can dress as you like, but that may impact your ability to get a jobConsiderring I am female, I digress I have much more choice in how I can opt to dress in a professional setting. If I chose to work at McDonalds, I have already accepted the fact that I will wear one of those awful, unflattering uniforms. If I work in the grocery store, I accept the same, if I work in a bank, I can wear dresses, slacks, and skirts.
The goal of the eduacation system is to prepare young people for the working environment. Since they will be required to have a dress code and wear uniforms there, why is it bad to prepare them for this? Certainly teaching them to wear whatever they like in school would make it more of a shock, more tramatic when they join the business world.
I have thought about it. School is a compulsary setting. One does not have the choice in whether to attend or not, up to a certain age. In the adult world, if a person choses not to wear a certain style of dress, they can opt to exclude certain jobs that require certain styles of dress from career pursuits. There are places in my area that the Muslim girl in question would be unable to work. She would not be able to work in fast food, become an airline stewardess, and she would not be allowed to wear a head covering for security reason if she worked in a bank. There are plenty of other places she can work and still comply with her religious dress code.
There is a difference between a dress code and being forced to wear a uniform and I feel as if your reply is as patronizing as your reply would be to one of your students.
And yet I'm sure youhave a dress code at your job. Do you consider that "being told what to wear"? I've had literally dozens of jobs, and I've been told to wear everything from a nylon McDonald's uniform, to a suit and tie, to a flight suit.
The fact of the business world is that business is consevative, you can dress as you like, but that may impact your ability to get a jobConsiderring I am female, I digress I have much more choice in how I can opt to dress in a professional setting. If I chose to work at McDonalds, I have already accepted the fact that I will wear one of those awful, unflattering uniforms. If I work in the grocery store, I accept the same, if I work in a bank, I can wear dresses, slacks, and skirts.
The goal of the eduacation system is to prepare young people for the working environment. Since they will be required to have a dress code and wear uniforms there, why is it bad to prepare them for this? Certainly teaching them to wear whatever they like in school would make it more of a shock, more tramatic when they join the business world.
I have thought about it. School is a compulsary setting. One does not have the choice in whether to attend or not, up to a certain age. In the adult world, if a person choses not to wear a certain style of dress, they can opt to exclude certain jobs that require certain styles of dress from career pursuits. There are places in my area that the Muslim girl in question would be unable to work. She would not be able to work in fast food, become an airline stewardess, and she would not be allowed to wear a head covering for security reason if she worked in a bank. There are plenty of other places she can work and still comply with her religious dress code.
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: To be honest, I see nothing wrong with the 'Bite Me'
You see nothing wrong with a shirt that insults everyone who sees it???!!!
It's called "courtesy" and "civility", Beth. Those are two things that I very much think should be taught to children. Come on....I know you've taught those very lessons to your children, after all you are a nice person.
You wouldn't let your children wear such a shirt, would you?
You see nothing wrong with a shirt that insults everyone who sees it???!!!
It's called "courtesy" and "civility", Beth. Those are two things that I very much think should be taught to children. Come on....I know you've taught those very lessons to your children, after all you are a nice person.
You wouldn't let your children wear such a shirt, would you?
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote: You see nothing wrong with a shirt that insults everyone who sees it???!!!
It's called "courtesy" and "civility", Beth. Those are two things that I very much think should be taught to children. Come on....I know you've taught those very lessons to your children, after all you are a nice person.
You wouldn't let your children wear such a shirt, would you?
It is called humor. That is what a shirt that says "bite me" denotes, but I also don't think it is the appropriate humor in line with a 12 year old or a nine year old. I have seen people wearing the shirts, and I have asked them where they want to be bitten. To me, bite me has evolved into a less insulting phrase. I have seen some Christian tees (they are protected under the constitution and worn by some righteous) that are much more insulting than a tee that says, "Bite me"
It's called "courtesy" and "civility", Beth. Those are two things that I very much think should be taught to children. Come on....I know you've taught those very lessons to your children, after all you are a nice person.
You wouldn't let your children wear such a shirt, would you?
It is called humor. That is what a shirt that says "bite me" denotes, but I also don't think it is the appropriate humor in line with a 12 year old or a nine year old. I have seen people wearing the shirts, and I have asked them where they want to be bitten. To me, bite me has evolved into a less insulting phrase. I have seen some Christian tees (they are protected under the constitution and worn by some righteous) that are much more insulting than a tee that says, "Bite me"
school Uniforms and religion
If you look at human history I think you will find that current times are the first times that such different cultures have tried to live side by side.
Even here in the so called melting pot (USA) we segregated ourselves to a very great degree.
I personally don't like uniforms but, with such diverse cultures trying to live together peacefully, it may be something we will have to try.
Which means some of our religious traditions may have to be relaxed.
Even here in the so called melting pot (USA) we segregated ourselves to a very great degree.
I personally don't like uniforms but, with such diverse cultures trying to live together peacefully, it may be something we will have to try.
Which means some of our religious traditions may have to be relaxed.
GOD CREATED MAN AND SAM COLT MADE THEM EQUAL
school Uniforms and religion
jahamaa wrote: If you look at human history I think you will find that current times are the first times that such different cultures have tried to live side by side.
Even here in the so called melting pot (USA) we segregated ourselves to a very great degree.
I personally don't like uniforms but, with such diverse cultures trying to live together peacefully, it may be something we will have to try.
Which means some of our religious traditions may have to be relaxed.Ok, then if we decide to mesh everyone together, create one style of dress, whose standards do we conform to? Many ethnic groups have relaxed religious traditions and have become Americanized, but I don't think that a person should be forced to dress indecently.
I would have a sh*t fit if I had to wear something I thought was indecent. as horrible as I think traditional Muslem dress is, I would not want to force someone else to confirm to my views and feel indecent. Now, ther are limitations, there are the headpieces that completely cover the face, those are a security threat to the public. This is one of the only instances I would say that in Western culture, they must conform.
Even here in the so called melting pot (USA) we segregated ourselves to a very great degree.
I personally don't like uniforms but, with such diverse cultures trying to live together peacefully, it may be something we will have to try.
Which means some of our religious traditions may have to be relaxed.Ok, then if we decide to mesh everyone together, create one style of dress, whose standards do we conform to? Many ethnic groups have relaxed religious traditions and have become Americanized, but I don't think that a person should be forced to dress indecently.
I would have a sh*t fit if I had to wear something I thought was indecent. as horrible as I think traditional Muslem dress is, I would not want to force someone else to confirm to my views and feel indecent. Now, ther are limitations, there are the headpieces that completely cover the face, those are a security threat to the public. This is one of the only instances I would say that in Western culture, they must conform.
school Uniforms and religion
Our code is nice and general. It says that if the clothing is "disruptive" to the learning process. it's got to go.
That's the most important thing, to make sure that the environment is the best it can be for education. School's not meant to be a fashion show. The other kids in class have a right to not be distracted from their learning.
It's like yelling 'fire" in a crowded theater. It's not freedom of speech because your rights end where mine begin.
That's the most important thing, to make sure that the environment is the best it can be for education. School's not meant to be a fashion show. The other kids in class have a right to not be distracted from their learning.
It's like yelling 'fire" in a crowded theater. It's not freedom of speech because your rights end where mine begin.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: Ok, then if we decide to mesh everyone together, create one style of dress, whose standards do we conform to? Many ethnic groups have relaxed religious traditions and have become Americanized, but I don't think that a person should be forced to dress indecently.
I would have a sh*t fit if I had to wear something I thought was indecent. as horrible as I think traditional Muslem dress is, I would not want to force someone else to confirm to my views and feel indecent. Now, ther are limitations, there are the headpieces that completely cover the face, those are a security threat to the public. This is one of the only instances I would say that in Western culture, they must conform.
I agree with you Beth. When your trying to blend cultures I guess there is no easy answer.
I know I certainly don't have one.
Maybe the only thing to do is try differnt solutions and be flexible enough to change if what you try doesn't work.
I would have a sh*t fit if I had to wear something I thought was indecent. as horrible as I think traditional Muslem dress is, I would not want to force someone else to confirm to my views and feel indecent. Now, ther are limitations, there are the headpieces that completely cover the face, those are a security threat to the public. This is one of the only instances I would say that in Western culture, they must conform.
I agree with you Beth. When your trying to blend cultures I guess there is no easy answer.
I know I certainly don't have one.
Maybe the only thing to do is try differnt solutions and be flexible enough to change if what you try doesn't work.
GOD CREATED MAN AND SAM COLT MADE THEM EQUAL
school Uniforms and religion
I have seen this "Bite Me" shirt. On my sons back. It's a joke. He is 15, and buys some of his own clothes, this shirt being one. I do not have a problem with it. It's not like he's wearing a shirt that says F*** off. Funny, as soon as he started wearing it, he didn't immediately become uncivil. He still is as well-mannered as he ever was.
As far as the uniform debate...I am all for kids being given restrictions on what they wear to school. No see-through shirts, none of the trashy, revealing clothing you see far too often. But when they try to impose one type of dress for everyone, it's gone too far. I am raising my son to NOT conform. Yes, question authority; yes, be your own person; yes, be an individual. Know what your kids are doing, but allow them to be themselves. To raise a bunch of robotic clones is not my idea of teaching the future generation how to think for themselves. Kids have precious few ways of expressing themselves as it is. I say let them chose this for themselves, with a bit of regulating when they are in school. When given guidance and suggestion, my son usually makes pretty good choices. I'm not about to take that from him.
As far as the uniform debate...I am all for kids being given restrictions on what they wear to school. No see-through shirts, none of the trashy, revealing clothing you see far too often. But when they try to impose one type of dress for everyone, it's gone too far. I am raising my son to NOT conform. Yes, question authority; yes, be your own person; yes, be an individual. Know what your kids are doing, but allow them to be themselves. To raise a bunch of robotic clones is not my idea of teaching the future generation how to think for themselves. Kids have precious few ways of expressing themselves as it is. I say let them chose this for themselves, with a bit of regulating when they are in school. When given guidance and suggestion, my son usually makes pretty good choices. I'm not about to take that from him.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
school Uniforms and religion
BabyRider wrote: I am all for kids being given restrictions on what they wear to school.
Thank you.
No see-through shirts, none of the trashy, revealing clothing you see far too often.
Very good.
But when they try to impose one type of dress for everyone, it's gone too far.
The people who have gone too far are the parents who allow indecent, rude, gang-related, insulting, insidious, slutty, and downright disgusting clothing to be worn in a public setting by their children. They are leaving the schools no choice.
They are many more parents like this than you would believe BR. They are not responsible like you. And I should point out that they will sit right next to your child... giving him the opposite message from the one you give him all day long.
Thank you.
No see-through shirts, none of the trashy, revealing clothing you see far too often.
Very good.
But when they try to impose one type of dress for everyone, it's gone too far.
The people who have gone too far are the parents who allow indecent, rude, gang-related, insulting, insidious, slutty, and downright disgusting clothing to be worn in a public setting by their children. They are leaving the schools no choice.
They are many more parents like this than you would believe BR. They are not responsible like you. And I should point out that they will sit right next to your child... giving him the opposite message from the one you give him all day long.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Nope still think the ame. Uniforms are better
1) it's actually cheaper for poorer parents than trying to keep up with the joneses.
2) teachers are less likely to make assumptions based on how the kids appear as to class, ability, likelihood to be a problem etc. There are plenty of studies to show that teachers do judge-as do we all on appearance. What might be a witty comment from one child is taken as being smartmouthing from another. You see that in adults as well come to that.
3) schools need rules to operate if you can't start with something as basic as this why bother. It is somethimg that helps impose a sense of order. You can still be a free thinker and learn to respect others.
Seperate religious schools already cause problems, persoanally I think we should ban religon in schools before Islam gets a chance to compound the problem.
posted by beth
Also, I don't think that dressing goth or voicing personal expression via clothing or style makes you a non-serious student. My children are not in schools that require uniforms.
I don't either, but if you wear a uniform to school you are still the same person when you take it off. If their self esteem is so fragile a uniform would help them blend in. I mean something like a blazer or common t shirt and trousers not somethimg fancy. many kids hide behind their style sometimes you need to make them leave it behind IMO. I don't pretend to be an expert, just opinionated.
1) it's actually cheaper for poorer parents than trying to keep up with the joneses.
2) teachers are less likely to make assumptions based on how the kids appear as to class, ability, likelihood to be a problem etc. There are plenty of studies to show that teachers do judge-as do we all on appearance. What might be a witty comment from one child is taken as being smartmouthing from another. You see that in adults as well come to that.
3) schools need rules to operate if you can't start with something as basic as this why bother. It is somethimg that helps impose a sense of order. You can still be a free thinker and learn to respect others.
Seperate religious schools already cause problems, persoanally I think we should ban religon in schools before Islam gets a chance to compound the problem.
posted by beth
Also, I don't think that dressing goth or voicing personal expression via clothing or style makes you a non-serious student. My children are not in schools that require uniforms.
I don't either, but if you wear a uniform to school you are still the same person when you take it off. If their self esteem is so fragile a uniform would help them blend in. I mean something like a blazer or common t shirt and trousers not somethimg fancy. many kids hide behind their style sometimes you need to make them leave it behind IMO. I don't pretend to be an expert, just opinionated.
school Uniforms and religion
gmc wrote: teachers are less likely to make assumptions based on how the kids appear as to class, ability, likelihood to be a problem etc. There are plenty of studies to show that teachers do judge-as do we all- on appearance. What might be a witty comment from one child is taken as being smartmouthing from another.
Excellent point....especially if the kid trying to be "witty" is wearing a "Bite Me" shirt. It gives the whole impression of insubordination.
Excellent point....especially if the kid trying to be "witty" is wearing a "Bite Me" shirt. It gives the whole impression of insubordination.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
gmc wrote: I don't either, but if you wear a uniform to school you are still the same person when you take it off. If their self esteem is so fragile a uniform would help them blend in. I mean something like a blazer or common t shirt and trousers not somethimg fancy. many kids hide behind their style sometimes you need to make them leave it behind IMO. I don't pretend to be an expert, just opinionated. Of course you are still the same person. No one stated that self esteem is contingent upon one's style of dress, but I am do not agree with the notion that students should all follow one style of dress. I do not believe that all students should be forced by policy to conform to one style of dress. I also do not believe that students should have to say the pledge every morning, they are captive participants being brainwashed to pledge to the flag of a government. I feel that it is rather Orwellian and has the aire of brainwashing. Incidentally, my children do not say the pledge unless they feel like it, nor do they alway stand at attention with hand over heart. They have been punished and they have informed their teachers that their constitutional rights are being violated and that their mommy could report this. To me, I say the heck with conformity, promote informed individualism.
Oh, my kids, wear colored gel to school occasionally. Every few weeks they may have blue, red, or even pink in their hair, pisses the teachers off, but I could care less. My kids are straight A students, have both received awards signed by ole Jebbie boy and my son has received Presidential Academic awards. Doesn't look like them actually liking school and enjoying freedom to express themselves has hurt them much.
Oh, my kids, wear colored gel to school occasionally. Every few weeks they may have blue, red, or even pink in their hair, pisses the teachers off, but I could care less. My kids are straight A students, have both received awards signed by ole Jebbie boy and my son has received Presidential Academic awards. Doesn't look like them actually liking school and enjoying freedom to express themselves has hurt them much.
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote: You see nothing wrong with a shirt that insults everyone who sees it???!!!
It's called "courtesy" and "civility", Beth. Those are two things that I very much think should be taught to children. Come on....I know you've taught those very lessons to your children, after all you are a nice person.
You wouldn't let your children wear such a shirt, would you?
Bart Simpson strikes again!
It's called "courtesy" and "civility", Beth. Those are two things that I very much think should be taught to children. Come on....I know you've taught those very lessons to your children, after all you are a nice person.
You wouldn't let your children wear such a shirt, would you?
Bart Simpson strikes again!
school Uniforms and religion
jahamaa wrote: I agree with you Beth. When your trying to blend cultures I guess there is no easy answer.
I know I certainly don't have one.
Maybe the only thing to do is try differnt solutions and be flexible enough to change if what you try doesn't work.
Why can't the dress codes be determined by the various groups and submitted as standard dress for their religious tastes? The public schools(US version- Government financed institutions)can then enforce the codes all under one roof? Can't wait to see which eclectic taste will dominate the fashions.
I know I certainly don't have one.
Maybe the only thing to do is try differnt solutions and be flexible enough to change if what you try doesn't work.
Why can't the dress codes be determined by the various groups and submitted as standard dress for their religious tastes? The public schools(US version- Government financed institutions)can then enforce the codes all under one roof? Can't wait to see which eclectic taste will dominate the fashions.
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: Doesn't look like them actually liking school and enjoying freedom to express themselves have hurt them much.:yh_clap
This is my point. Thank you.
If teachers are making judgements and assumptions based on a kids style of dress, then they need to check themselves. Just because "they are people too" and "it's just human nature" doesn't wash with me. They are teaching our kids more than just reading and writing. Teachers have a huge impact on our kids, and if they can't put personal bias aside enough to learn, themselves, about a child, they should look elsewhere for work. Do you think that kids don't notice things like a teacher reacting differently to kids based on their dress? They are way more aware than that.
I am not saying to let the girls show up looking like street walkers and the boys in their jammies or underwear. But to have a uniform, destroys individuality. And once that has begun, it's a difficult error to correct.
This is my point. Thank you.
If teachers are making judgements and assumptions based on a kids style of dress, then they need to check themselves. Just because "they are people too" and "it's just human nature" doesn't wash with me. They are teaching our kids more than just reading and writing. Teachers have a huge impact on our kids, and if they can't put personal bias aside enough to learn, themselves, about a child, they should look elsewhere for work. Do you think that kids don't notice things like a teacher reacting differently to kids based on their dress? They are way more aware than that.
I am not saying to let the girls show up looking like street walkers and the boys in their jammies or underwear. But to have a uniform, destroys individuality. And once that has begun, it's a difficult error to correct.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: I also do not believe that students should have to say the pledge every morning, they are captive participants being brainwashed to pledge to the flag of a government. .
That would be the government of your country, and what exactly is wrong with teaching children to love their country?
Beth, you are way...way...way off base now. Don't you like America? You said the pledge when you were young...
Didn't you turn out OK? Or are you saying you are "brainwashed" too?
How can a love of country be "brainwashing"? and even if it is, isn't it a good thing?
Here we are decrying the loss of yesterday's values and morals....all while disrespecting the pledge of allegiance which was an important part of those values.
Lost...completely lost.
That would be the government of your country, and what exactly is wrong with teaching children to love their country?
Beth, you are way...way...way off base now. Don't you like America? You said the pledge when you were young...
Didn't you turn out OK? Or are you saying you are "brainwashed" too?
How can a love of country be "brainwashing"? and even if it is, isn't it a good thing?
Here we are decrying the loss of yesterday's values and morals....all while disrespecting the pledge of allegiance which was an important part of those values.
Lost...completely lost.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
BabyRider wrote: If teachers are making judgements and assumptions based on a kids style of dress, then they need to check themselves.
What? We are perfect? Teachers do the absolute best they can on a salary that is below the poverty level in many states. Try spending the day in a small room with 183 teenagers making decisions at a rate of 80 per minute before you judge too harshly.
Sure, I'll admit it, I make decisions based on looks all the time.. Who should I help the most? What kind of problem could the child with the rumpled clothes have at home? Can the child with the torn shirt do this problem, or will he need extra help with the basics? Does the child with the $200 sneakers have access to a computer at home? What about the kid with a 1970's AC/DC shirt? Does the Satanic symbol on that kids shirt indicate he is at risk of suicide? Is the kid with the Marijuana leaf on his shirt on drugs? or just trying to be cool?.....
....But I'm sure you've never done this before BR. :wah:
What? We are perfect? Teachers do the absolute best they can on a salary that is below the poverty level in many states. Try spending the day in a small room with 183 teenagers making decisions at a rate of 80 per minute before you judge too harshly.
Sure, I'll admit it, I make decisions based on looks all the time.. Who should I help the most? What kind of problem could the child with the rumpled clothes have at home? Can the child with the torn shirt do this problem, or will he need extra help with the basics? Does the child with the $200 sneakers have access to a computer at home? What about the kid with a 1970's AC/DC shirt? Does the Satanic symbol on that kids shirt indicate he is at risk of suicide? Is the kid with the Marijuana leaf on his shirt on drugs? or just trying to be cool?.....
....But I'm sure you've never done this before BR. :wah:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote: That would be the government of your country, and what exactly is wrong with teaching children to love their country?Yes, the government of my country, not my country not my peoples. I do not put it past any government, not even mine, to not be the perpetuators of evil. I see something beyond loving one's country, its history, its heritage, its future and ideals. I see a blind nationalist patriotism that is seemingly being taught to o r children. I see it in the pta programs, I see it in the curricullum (school volunteer for over six years). I am very well aware of the climate in the school. Children who have opinions outside the box are being made to feel as if they were against America, just as you attempted to do with your post to me.
Beth, you are way...way...way off base now. Don't you like Amer ca? You said the pledge when you were young...
Off base? Just how exactly am I off base. Please be very, very specific and enlighten me to the error of my ways. How is my teaching my children that it is within their civil rights not to pledge allegience to the American flag making you question whether I like America?.I did not say the Pledge often, only when I was forced to. I was taught that I should only pledge allegience to God.
Didn't you turn out OK? Or are you saying you are "brainwashed" too? I turned out fine, for the most part. I was taught what America was about. I was taught what the ideals underlying the constitution was and I was taught to respect the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I do say the pledge when I feel like it. I do not think I should have to say the pledge before every class or ball game or PTA program to be a loyal American.
How can a love of country be "brainwashing"? and even if it is, isn't it a good thing?
I see more than a love of country going on. I see a sort of nationalist patriotism that is being propagandised that reminds me of what I have heard of nationalist movements that spread before fascist governments come into power. I don't like the blind nationalism that I see. I don't like the fact that the propaganda goes so deep that one who dissents has their loyalty to their country questioned.
Here we are decrying the loss of yesterday's values and morals....all while disrespecting the pledge of allegiance which was an important part of those values. How is informing a child of his civil rights and objecting to the nationalist brainwashing of children either disrespecting the pledge or helping to perpetuate the decline in values? Please, be specific and enlighten me into the error of my ways, rather than just try to suggest that my values are askew.
Lost...completely lost.
Sorry that you are. I am not.
Beth, you are way...way...way off base now. Don't you like Amer ca? You said the pledge when you were young...
Off base? Just how exactly am I off base. Please be very, very specific and enlighten me to the error of my ways. How is my teaching my children that it is within their civil rights not to pledge allegience to the American flag making you question whether I like America?.I did not say the Pledge often, only when I was forced to. I was taught that I should only pledge allegience to God.
Didn't you turn out OK? Or are you saying you are "brainwashed" too? I turned out fine, for the most part. I was taught what America was about. I was taught what the ideals underlying the constitution was and I was taught to respect the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I do say the pledge when I feel like it. I do not think I should have to say the pledge before every class or ball game or PTA program to be a loyal American.
How can a love of country be "brainwashing"? and even if it is, isn't it a good thing?
I see more than a love of country going on. I see a sort of nationalist patriotism that is being propagandised that reminds me of what I have heard of nationalist movements that spread before fascist governments come into power. I don't like the blind nationalism that I see. I don't like the fact that the propaganda goes so deep that one who dissents has their loyalty to their country questioned.
Here we are decrying the loss of yesterday's values and morals....all while disrespecting the pledge of allegiance which was an important part of those values. How is informing a child of his civil rights and objecting to the nationalist brainwashing of children either disrespecting the pledge or helping to perpetuate the decline in values? Please, be specific and enlighten me into the error of my ways, rather than just try to suggest that my values are askew.
Lost...completely lost.
Sorry that you are. I am not.
school Uniforms and religion
Well this thread started off to be a discussion of the relevance of uniforms in the schools, now it's a flame war on who's patriotic and who's not.
Well, I'll round off by getting back on topic. It's good to have people in our country that challenge authority and are nonconformists. How else will we evolve as a society? So wearing diverse clothes can have value.
It's also good to to have citizens who want to maintain our traditions and conform to time-proven values. They are the backbone of our society. So uniforms can have a positive effect too.
There...now everyone's happy, yes?
(very diplomatic of you jives!) :wah:
Well, I'll round off by getting back on topic. It's good to have people in our country that challenge authority and are nonconformists. How else will we evolve as a society? So wearing diverse clothes can have value.
It's also good to to have citizens who want to maintain our traditions and conform to time-proven values. They are the backbone of our society. So uniforms can have a positive effect too.
There...now everyone's happy, yes?
(very diplomatic of you jives!) :wah:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote:
....But I'm sure you've never done this before BR. :wah:I never claimed to have not done this. What I am saying is that more is expected of teachers. I expect more of the people having the type of impact on my child's life that teachers have. Jives, I think that teaching is the most under-appreciated (and under-paid) profession out there. We have sports figures making millions of dollars a year to play a game. And teachers and cops getting by on a pittance. It's criminal. Believe me, I do not mean to discount your view, or your profession.
I do, however, think that a teacher should be above the type of biases involved in "judging a book by its cover." I expect a lot, and it's probably an idealistic, and unrealistic expectation. But I still want it.
....But I'm sure you've never done this before BR. :wah:I never claimed to have not done this. What I am saying is that more is expected of teachers. I expect more of the people having the type of impact on my child's life that teachers have. Jives, I think that teaching is the most under-appreciated (and under-paid) profession out there. We have sports figures making millions of dollars a year to play a game. And teachers and cops getting by on a pittance. It's criminal. Believe me, I do not mean to discount your view, or your profession.
I do, however, think that a teacher should be above the type of biases involved in "judging a book by its cover." I expect a lot, and it's probably an idealistic, and unrealistic expectation. But I still want it.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote:
It's also good to to have citizens who want to maintain our traditions and conform to time-proven values. They are the backbone of our society. So uniforms can have a positive effect too. What exactly are these traditional values? My family owned slaves, slavery and racism were part of our values. Values evolve with our culture. Some of our values are rooted in oppression.
(very diplomatic of you jives!) :wah:
Diplomatic, heh?
:p
I am well aware of the pressures on teachers, but you know, it would be even more difficult to spot warning signs in your students if they all dressed alike. Anyway, I have always volunteered to lighten my children's teachers' loads so they could better concentrate on teaching.
It's also good to to have citizens who want to maintain our traditions and conform to time-proven values. They are the backbone of our society. So uniforms can have a positive effect too. What exactly are these traditional values? My family owned slaves, slavery and racism were part of our values. Values evolve with our culture. Some of our values are rooted in oppression.
(very diplomatic of you jives!) :wah:
Diplomatic, heh?
:pI am well aware of the pressures on teachers, but you know, it would be even more difficult to spot warning signs in your students if they all dressed alike. Anyway, I have always volunteered to lighten my children's teachers' loads so they could better concentrate on teaching.
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: What exactly are these traditional values? My family owned slaves, slavery and racism were part of our values. Values evolve with our culture. Some of our values are rooted in oppression.
Excellent point Beth.
There's that word, "conform" again. Anything that promotes conformity makes me twitchy. Can't help it.
Excellent point Beth.
There's that word, "conform" again. Anything that promotes conformity makes me twitchy. Can't help it.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
school Uniforms and religion
I vote school uniforms all the way as it
1) eliminates social status among impressionable kids
2) reduces crimes of theft and bullying as in "thou shall not covet thy classmates Marilyn manson shirt, Nike Runners, Fila track pants etc.
3) Is a good base to teach kids we are all equals
4) reduces distractions ie the young boys are not oggling the young girls in their tanks, belly shirts, low rise jeans, exposed cleavage etc.
And last it helps parents get kids off to school faster as there is no laboring over what to wear, he helps parents with the budget as they are not having to buy a bunch of clothing to suit the kids every needs, it helps us retain some control over the spending we are sometimes found to give into when our kids whine like mad for designer everything.
I am sorry religion is a belief not a dress code. Our own native american children are not pushing to wear their religious costume so why should we make exceptions.
1) eliminates social status among impressionable kids
2) reduces crimes of theft and bullying as in "thou shall not covet thy classmates Marilyn manson shirt, Nike Runners, Fila track pants etc.
3) Is a good base to teach kids we are all equals
4) reduces distractions ie the young boys are not oggling the young girls in their tanks, belly shirts, low rise jeans, exposed cleavage etc.
And last it helps parents get kids off to school faster as there is no laboring over what to wear, he helps parents with the budget as they are not having to buy a bunch of clothing to suit the kids every needs, it helps us retain some control over the spending we are sometimes found to give into when our kids whine like mad for designer everything.
I am sorry religion is a belief not a dress code. Our own native american children are not pushing to wear their religious costume so why should we make exceptions.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
school Uniforms and religion
Well, we have this little thing that allows a person the free practice of religion. In this country, if one's religious dress code were infringed upon because of compulsary uniform dress codes, it would be a violation of their rights. Muslim dress is not a religious costume, unlike Native American cerimonial dress. 
I personally don't like Muslim dress for women. I personally think it is oppressive, especially in my state with the horrible heat. I'll stand next to a Muslim woman, dressed as bare and as cool as modesty will allow and she will be standing from head to toe covered and hot. To me it seems cruel, to them it shows devotion.
I personally don't like Muslim dress for women. I personally think it is oppressive, especially in my state with the horrible heat. I'll stand next to a Muslim woman, dressed as bare and as cool as modesty will allow and she will be standing from head to toe covered and hot. To me it seems cruel, to them it shows devotion.
school Uniforms and religion
I keep hearing this argument that it's cheaper to have uniforms. But if I'm buying my kids everyday clothes AND uniforms, I am spending more money. If there is no uniform to buy, I am only buying everyday clothes, which are also school clothes...
Frankly, whining does not get my kid anywhere, in fact if there is whining involved, he is LESS likely to get what he wants. I make the rules, not him.
Frankly, whining does not get my kid anywhere, in fact if there is whining involved, he is LESS likely to get what he wants. I make the rules, not him.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
school Uniforms and religion
Beth wrote: Muslim dress is not a religious costume, unlike Native American ceremonial dress.
LOL! Does that seem ironic to anyone else?
LOL! Does that seem ironic to anyone else?
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote: LOL! Does that seem ironic to anyone else?
I don't see the irony. Muslim dress is a daily thing. The devout Muslim woman must wear this certain dress wherever she is in public. I am not sure about homelife. Native American ceremonial dress, from my understanding of distant relatives and from books, is required during certain ceremonies, not for day to day wear. If a Native American student insisted on wearing his/her traditional dress based on religious principles in honor of the tenants of his/her faith, s/he could not be denied that right to dress accordingly.
I don't see the irony. Muslim dress is a daily thing. The devout Muslim woman must wear this certain dress wherever she is in public. I am not sure about homelife. Native American ceremonial dress, from my understanding of distant relatives and from books, is required during certain ceremonies, not for day to day wear. If a Native American student insisted on wearing his/her traditional dress based on religious principles in honor of the tenants of his/her faith, s/he could not be denied that right to dress accordingly.
school Uniforms and religion
I emailed a British friend and linked this thread and asked for her opinion. This was the reply (I obtained permission to post it):The muslim clothing case was interesting, because the uniform already included Muslim-approved clothing. Most of the students at that school are muslims.
But this student had particular clothing she wanted to wear. It was still very practical clothing so I don't really know what all the fuss was about. But I felt they were within their rights to refuse to let her wear her own choice of clothing if the school had a uniform policy. Some schools don't.
But the law lords said this was against the Human Rights Act. That's the law that makes the European Declaration of Human Rights into a kind of British bill of rights. Our country signed it oh ages ago back in the 50s, but made it the law of the land in 1998 or so. Before that we had no bill of rights. Parliament could pass any act it liked and we had no protection if it went utsnay (which does happen now and then)
But this student had particular clothing she wanted to wear. It was still very practical clothing so I don't really know what all the fuss was about. But I felt they were within their rights to refuse to let her wear her own choice of clothing if the school had a uniform policy. Some schools don't.
But the law lords said this was against the Human Rights Act. That's the law that makes the European Declaration of Human Rights into a kind of British bill of rights. Our country signed it oh ages ago back in the 50s, but made it the law of the land in 1998 or so. Before that we had no bill of rights. Parliament could pass any act it liked and we had no protection if it went utsnay (which does happen now and then)
school Uniforms and religion
BabyRider wrote: I keep hearing this argument that it's cheaper to have uniforms. But if I'm buying my kids everyday clothes AND uniforms, I am spending more money. If there is no uniform to buy, I am only buying everyday clothes, which are also school clothes...
Frankly, whining does not get my kid anywhere, in fact if there is whining involved, he is LESS likely to get what he wants. I make the rules, not him.
As I recall there are school clothes and there are after school clothes for kids to wear. Buying designer for school clothes and after school clothes is a lot different than, and more expensive than, buying uniforms and after school designer clothing no matter how you add it up.
Stereotyping kids by their clothes is a dream for the people that can afford to be clothed in the leading apparel anywhere and any time. You can demean and your contemporaries will submit to the fact that you are better off, hence, superior without even opening your mouth.
Using the canard of freedom of choice is only perpetuating the problem of educators not being able to educate and students not being able to learn without wanting to keep an erection down because the vamp is sexually attired while the other guy is trying to jam trigonometry into your preoccupied head.
Uniforms are ordinary, everyday clothes. The worth of the person is not put into having the right labels but into the education that they are getting and incorporating into their lives. The wear and tear on the everyday clothing that has to be worn to go to school is lessened and the costs even out..
Frankly, whining does not get my kid anywhere, in fact if there is whining involved, he is LESS likely to get what he wants. I make the rules, not him.
As I recall there are school clothes and there are after school clothes for kids to wear. Buying designer for school clothes and after school clothes is a lot different than, and more expensive than, buying uniforms and after school designer clothing no matter how you add it up.
Stereotyping kids by their clothes is a dream for the people that can afford to be clothed in the leading apparel anywhere and any time. You can demean and your contemporaries will submit to the fact that you are better off, hence, superior without even opening your mouth.
Using the canard of freedom of choice is only perpetuating the problem of educators not being able to educate and students not being able to learn without wanting to keep an erection down because the vamp is sexually attired while the other guy is trying to jam trigonometry into your preoccupied head.
Uniforms are ordinary, everyday clothes. The worth of the person is not put into having the right labels but into the education that they are getting and incorporating into their lives. The wear and tear on the everyday clothing that has to be worn to go to school is lessened and the costs even out..
school Uniforms and religion
I have a problem, as far as young girls go, with uniforms in schools. Body types. You take all the girls and make them wear the same thing and it accentuates the differences in their body types. Don't young girls have enough self image problems? At least if they can choose their clothes they can choose something that flatters their body type and makes an impression of who they are as a person. There is compromise. Yes, you end up with some evidence of poor taste but you might end up with less anorexia and bulemia.
school Uniforms and religion
koan wrote: I have a problem, as far as young girls go, with uniforms in schools. Body types. You take all the girls and make them wear the same thing and it accentuates the differences in their body types. Don't young girls have enough self image problems? At least if they can choose their clothes they can choose something that flatters their body type and makes an impression of who they are as a person. There is compromise. Yes, you end up with some evidence of poor taste but you might end up with less anorexia and bulemia.
Can't uniforms be used to make the body types seem non existent.
Can't uniforms be used to make the body types seem non existent.
school Uniforms and religion
posted by baby rider
I keep hearing this argument that it's cheaper to have uniforms. But if I'm buying my kids everyday clothes AND uniforms, I am spending more money. If there is no uniform to buy, I am only buying everyday clothes, which are also school clothes...
Frankly, whining does not get my kid anywhere, in fact if there is whining involved, he is LESS likely to get what he wants. I make the rules, not him.
posted by kensloft
Uniforms are ordinary, everyday clothes. The worth of the person is not put into having the right labels but into the education that they are getting and incorporating into their lives. The wear and tear on the everyday clothing that has to be worn to go to school is lessened and the costs even out..
It does take away that element of peer pressure to conform, it also makes it easier on school trips to keep track of kids and also easier to pot when they're skiving. Our local schools, the police and the security in the local shopping centres have combined in a joint effort against truants, any kid in there during school hours now gets questioned and if they are skiving then they don't get away with it so readily.
As the younger of three I only ever had one new blazer. It's fair to say it saved an awful lot of money not having to keep buying new clothes. I wouldn't have got new clothes for every day either believe me. Some of the local schools it's a same colour jersey ratehr than a blazer. Within reason it is a good idea and helps inculcate a sense of conformity within the school.
As to how strict, well some things like insisting girls wear skirts rather than trousers are a bit archaic. The girls won their point by pointing out that an adult male teacher insist schoolgilrs all wear skirts did not look good. I suppose I am saying I think it a good idea in principle but too rigid an interpretation is bad as well.
While it's true teachers should not make judgements they do,
The muslim headdress though is being used to keep women in their place. Many muslim girls would prefer not to wear it and only do so because of parental pressure. We have a problem in the UK with muslim girls being forced in to marraige against their will. We have instances of honour killings. Muslims are now pushing for seperate muslim schools so they can stop their kids adopting westarn ways and attitudes primarily they don't like girls turning round and telling they won't marry who their parents choose for them,The authorities turn a blind eye in the interests of respecting cultural differences but I think there needs to be an element of this is our way our freedoms are hard won if you don't like it go back to pakistan.
Which sounds racist but what would you do if you knew of someone being forced to marry under age against their will? If British you would do something why accept it because they are from a different culture. Most people now think it wrong that a husband can beat his wife or children because it is his right. Why tolerate a father forcing his daughter to cover up against her will.
I feel the same way about fundamentalist muslims as i do about fundamentalist christians. If it really was the girls choice then fine but allowing this also takes away the right of others to at least some of the time not wear it.
Our blasphemy laws do not extend to any but the christian religon. PersonallyI think it is time they were repealed altogether
posted by beth
Yes, the government of my country, not my country not my peoples. I do not put it past any government, not even mine, to not be the perpetuators of evil. I see something beyond loving one's country, its history, its heritage, its future and ideals. I see a blind nationalist patriotism that is seemingly being taught to o r children. I see it in the pta programs, I see it in the curricullum (school volunteer for over six years). I am very well aware of the climate in the school. Children who have opinions outside the box are being made to feel as if they were against America, just as you attempted to do with your post to me.
Interesting comment, as an outsider americans do seem to have this blind my country right or wrong attitude, anyone criticising the president is unpatriotic. maybe not relevant to this post though. As an aside if,as was suggested that we get teenagers to swear an oath of loyalty as in the US the reply would have been a resounding get stuffed. They did introduce it for new immigrants
I keep hearing this argument that it's cheaper to have uniforms. But if I'm buying my kids everyday clothes AND uniforms, I am spending more money. If there is no uniform to buy, I am only buying everyday clothes, which are also school clothes...
Frankly, whining does not get my kid anywhere, in fact if there is whining involved, he is LESS likely to get what he wants. I make the rules, not him.
posted by kensloft
Uniforms are ordinary, everyday clothes. The worth of the person is not put into having the right labels but into the education that they are getting and incorporating into their lives. The wear and tear on the everyday clothing that has to be worn to go to school is lessened and the costs even out..
It does take away that element of peer pressure to conform, it also makes it easier on school trips to keep track of kids and also easier to pot when they're skiving. Our local schools, the police and the security in the local shopping centres have combined in a joint effort against truants, any kid in there during school hours now gets questioned and if they are skiving then they don't get away with it so readily.
As the younger of three I only ever had one new blazer. It's fair to say it saved an awful lot of money not having to keep buying new clothes. I wouldn't have got new clothes for every day either believe me. Some of the local schools it's a same colour jersey ratehr than a blazer. Within reason it is a good idea and helps inculcate a sense of conformity within the school.
As to how strict, well some things like insisting girls wear skirts rather than trousers are a bit archaic. The girls won their point by pointing out that an adult male teacher insist schoolgilrs all wear skirts did not look good. I suppose I am saying I think it a good idea in principle but too rigid an interpretation is bad as well.
While it's true teachers should not make judgements they do,
The muslim headdress though is being used to keep women in their place. Many muslim girls would prefer not to wear it and only do so because of parental pressure. We have a problem in the UK with muslim girls being forced in to marraige against their will. We have instances of honour killings. Muslims are now pushing for seperate muslim schools so they can stop their kids adopting westarn ways and attitudes primarily they don't like girls turning round and telling they won't marry who their parents choose for them,The authorities turn a blind eye in the interests of respecting cultural differences but I think there needs to be an element of this is our way our freedoms are hard won if you don't like it go back to pakistan.
Which sounds racist but what would you do if you knew of someone being forced to marry under age against their will? If British you would do something why accept it because they are from a different culture. Most people now think it wrong that a husband can beat his wife or children because it is his right. Why tolerate a father forcing his daughter to cover up against her will.
I feel the same way about fundamentalist muslims as i do about fundamentalist christians. If it really was the girls choice then fine but allowing this also takes away the right of others to at least some of the time not wear it.
Our blasphemy laws do not extend to any but the christian religon. PersonallyI think it is time they were repealed altogether
posted by beth
Yes, the government of my country, not my country not my peoples. I do not put it past any government, not even mine, to not be the perpetuators of evil. I see something beyond loving one's country, its history, its heritage, its future and ideals. I see a blind nationalist patriotism that is seemingly being taught to o r children. I see it in the pta programs, I see it in the curricullum (school volunteer for over six years). I am very well aware of the climate in the school. Children who have opinions outside the box are being made to feel as if they were against America, just as you attempted to do with your post to me.
Interesting comment, as an outsider americans do seem to have this blind my country right or wrong attitude, anyone criticising the president is unpatriotic. maybe not relevant to this post though. As an aside if,as was suggested that we get teenagers to swear an oath of loyalty as in the US the reply would have been a resounding get stuffed. They did introduce it for new immigrants
school Uniforms and religion
I know this for a fact....if you do not wear a certain kind of clothes, you are automatically excluded from certain "popular" cliques in high school.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
school Uniforms and religion
Jives wrote: I know this for a fact....if you do not wear a certain kind of clothes, you are automatically excluded from certain "popular" cliques in high school.
I hear you!
I hear you!
school Uniforms and religion
When all are wearing the same thing how can they hide their body type differences? It doesn't work. Clothing styles do exclude you from groups...usually one's you don't want to belong to. It is a way of expressing your personality. It helps kids to find others of similar personality and helps create a feeling of belonging. Uniforms will not make poor kids feel less poor. They will not make sleazy girls act less sleazy. All it does is create an illusion. An illusion of equality and conformity. Ask a kid who wears a uniform if the bullying stops or if everyone at the school is equal. I highly doubt they will answer yes.
school Uniforms and religion
koan wrote: When all are wearing the same thing how can they hide their body type differences? It doesn't work. Clothing styles do exclude you from groups...usually one's you don't want to belong to. It is a way of expressing your personality. It helps kids to find others of similar personality and helps create a feeling of belonging. Uniforms will not make poor kids feel less poor. They will not make sleazy girls act less sleazy. All it does is create an illusion. An illusion of equality and conformity. Ask a kid who wears a uniform if the bullying stops or if everyone at the school is equal. I highly doubt they will answer yes.
I was sort of thinking a Muumuu or something like that. If we can do it we can have the different physiological sizes be logically processed into sending them all to one school that is geared to their particular structure which will teach them to become... ?
Then! Ven vee haff dem dey vill do like vee zay.
I was sort of thinking a Muumuu or something like that. If we can do it we can have the different physiological sizes be logically processed into sending them all to one school that is geared to their particular structure which will teach them to become... ?
Then! Ven vee haff dem dey vill do like vee zay.
school Uniforms and religion
Just been looking round the link from the 1st post & read a story about a 15 year old muslim girl who was expelled from a Strasbourg secondary school for wearing a headscarf, she did'nt want to disobey the French law or the law of god, so she shaved her hair off. 
school Uniforms and religion
abbey wrote: Just been looking round the link from the 1st post & read a story about a 15 year old muslim girl who was expelled from a Strasbourg secondary school for wearing a headscarf, she did'nt want to disobey the French law or the law of god, so she shaved her hair off.
The question was whether people would or should be wearing uniforms.
The question was whether people would or should be wearing uniforms.
school Uniforms and religion
kensloft wrote: The question was whether people would or should be wearing uniforms.
The original post was about a muslim girl suspended from school because she wore muslim dress.
The muslim girl i was referring to, wore the scarf as it was part of her muslim dress (beliefs )
The original post was about a muslim girl suspended from school because she wore muslim dress.
The muslim girl i was referring to, wore the scarf as it was part of her muslim dress (beliefs )
school Uniforms and religion
abbey wrote: The original post was about a muslim girl suspended from school because she wore muslim dress.
The muslim girl i was referring to, wore the scarf as it was part of her muslim dress (beliefs )
Well? Having read the entire thread you aren't seeing that they have not even settled whether or not uniforms should be worn?
You did not start the thread so? If the person that started it wanted it to take the direction that you are implying then she would have pointed it out. Nice toys.
The muslim girl i was referring to, wore the scarf as it was part of her muslim dress (beliefs )
Well? Having read the entire thread you aren't seeing that they have not even settled whether or not uniforms should be worn?
You did not start the thread so? If the person that started it wanted it to take the direction that you are implying then she would have pointed it out. Nice toys.
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chicagolosina
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school Uniforms and religion
Cripes! Why not make the Muslim dress in the same colours as the school uniform? If most of the students are Muslim, why not have that as a uniform option? Seems pretty simple to me.
school Uniforms and religion
How would you react if she wanted to wear the full covering the name of which I cannot for the life of me remember? (burka that's it) It's part of their religon so why should the school object? I find it hard to credit any woman goes around dressed as tent from choice. It's this daft idea that you get amongst fundamentalist christians as well. Women tempt men therefore it is their fault and they need to be hidden and controlled rather than men need to control themselves and learn to respect others.