This whole attitude really offends me.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:38 pm

I read this crap and can't help but wonder what the reaction will be if white america turns out solidly behind McCain because he is white... can't the argument be made that whites have every right to be just as proud of the person representing their race? It's as if you are a traitor if you are black and dare to vote the issues- if those issues force you to make a choice that is more then skin deep.... why is this so acceptable to everyone? I just don't get it!:-2

Black conservatives conflicted on Obama campaign

By FREDERIC J. FROMMER, Associated Press Writer

Sat Jun 14, 7:18 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Black conservative talk show host Armstrong Williams has never voted for a Democrat for president. That could change this year with Barack Obama as the Democratic Party's nominee.

"I don't necessarily like his policies; I don't like much that he advocates, but for the first time in my life, history thrusts me to really seriously think about it," Williams said. "I can honestly say I have no idea who I'm going to pull that lever for in November. And to me, that's incredible."

Just as Obama has touched black Democratic voters, he has engendered conflicting emotions among black Republicans. They revel over the possibility of a black president but wrestle with the thought that the Illinois senator doesn't sit beside them ideologically.

...........................

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080614/ap_ ... k3u2Eb.3QA

sunny_bunny · Post by **sunny_bunny** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:59 am

I totally agree! I cannot see why people always make such a big issue about skin colour. It's not someone's skin colour that does a good job - it's their brain!

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:13 am

I totally understand where you are coming from Flopstock, but I suppose that particularly for black Americans, this is a special moment in the history of their role in politics in the US, and given the problems they encountered in the past, its only natural that many black Americans would see this as a momentous thing, and want to be involved personally. As despite whatever is said, race is something that every has and identifies with, and thats natural, as long as that doesn't turn into hatred of peoples of other races that's not a bad thing.

But I would also agree that in deciding on who should have this Job, people should look past the superficialities of skin colour and vote the person they think can do the best job, and that goes whether you are black or white, or any other colour. You know I am sure that there will be quite a few conservative black people who will vote for McCain as he a strong traditional conservative, (not a radical like Bush), regardless of the natural excitement being caused by having the first multi-racial candidate in Obama. All in all, its going to be a fascinating election.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:47 am

Galbally;889775 wrote: I totally understand where you are coming from Flopstock, but I suppose that particularly for black Americans, this is a special moment in the history of their role in politics in the US, and given the problems they encountered in the past, its only natural that many black Americans would see this as a momentous thing, and want to be involved personally. As despite whatever is said, race is something that every has and identifies with, and thats natural, as long as that doesn't turn into hatred of peoples of other races that's not a bad thing.

But I would also agree that in deciding on who should have this Job, people should look past the superficialities of skin colour and vote the person they think can do the best job, and that goes whether you are black or white, or any other colour. You know I am sure that there will be quite a few conservative black people who will vote for McCain as he a strong traditional conservative, (not a radical like Bush), regardless of the natural excitement being caused by having the first multi-racial candidate in Obama. All in all, its going to be a fascinating election.

I ABSOLUTELY agree, but fear it will be many, many years before the whole human race sees itself as 'Earthlings' with the same hopes, expectations, dreams and fears. The same strengths and weaknesses.

:-6

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:17 am

Bez;889799 wrote:

I ABSOLUTELY agree, but fear it will be many, many years before the whole human race sees itself as 'Earthlings' with the same hopes, expectations, dreams and fears. The same strengths and weaknesses.

:-6
I wish very much that there was some other "Earthling" in the running, as neither parties running are right for the job! :wah:

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:35 am

I find the whole political circus distasteful.

Using your colour, race, religion, or family connections to win an election its just nasty.

But then that's politics in a nutshell ... Nasty

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:28 pm

McCain doesn't represent the white race any more than Obama represents the black race.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:27 pm

along-for-the-ride;890292 wrote: McCain doesn't represent the white race any more than Obama represents the black race.

While that's a true statement about McCain, the article suggests that it may not be true about Obama. What aggravates me so much is that it doesn't even embarrass anyone to be making the racist pick that they are. They flat out say they disagree with the mans politics!:-2

On the other hand, it amuses me that no one talks about his white relatives much, do they? It can't be that embarrassing, can it? Surely mine are worse...:wah:

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:03 pm

rjwould;889849 wrote: I think this gets said no matter who is running, perhaps not necessarily by you. I think this is just an excuse by some voters to feel like they don't need to justify why it is they vote as they do or not vote at all.

I don't agree with the process either but I think its important to at least add relevant content to the conversation unless and until the process changes.

You have two parties putting their candidates up there so you have a reason to vote their ideology, and the only thing thats left is personality and personal history. The process is easy enough, too easy in fact, but at least offers a selection without having to actually know much about politics per se. So, if you don't like either persons personality, go ahead and vote the ideology, which is probably what one wants to do anyway.

Which brings me back to the thread topic. Its possible that what may really happening is, some (in this case black voters) are actually being challenged on ideology and questioning it, which can never be a bad thing.
First of all Mccain has his age as a major challenge. Look at what happened to Reagan near the end of his second term, batteling senility. Not to mention, he's being referred to as "McBush", so it will be business as usual! And Obama, is very inexperienced & seemingly naive. And with all the major worldly problems facing the USA, inexperienced naivete can/will be disasterous! So . . .

Where's a Fred Thompson when you need him, too bad he didn't get the nod?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am

rjwould;890479 wrote:

Incidentally, I like John McCain as a person, I just think his want to win this Iraq war which is not winnable is a fault, and that to me is dangerous.

Wow............

No comment. You defeatist attitude says it ALL

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:47 pm

rjwould;890479 wrote: Thompson at 66 is not much younger than McCain at 71, only 5 years difference. Anyway, you're obviously a republican and there isn't much difference idealistically between the two. McCain will nominate a younger VP to carry the torch should anything happen to him if he is elected in order to satisfy voters such as yourself.

Obama is heads and shoulders above McCain on the diplomatic side and is more in tune with a younger generation than McCain. Your party may have done well to elect him (McCain) 8 years ago instead of vote for a guy to have a beer with, but thats in the past now and so is John McCain.

Incidentally, I like John McCain as a person, I just think his want to win this Iraq war which is not winnable is a fault, and that to me is dangerous.
Over presumptious to say the least, I'm an "Independant", always have been, always will be. I vote on/for the candidates own merits, not their party affiliation! Mainly that's why I wish someone other then the present contenders were running!!! (Forget Hillary, never was an option for me)

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:30 pm

rjwould;891075 wrote: But Fred Thompson is a conservative.

There is nothing independent about Fred Thompson.

Have you considered independent and third party candidates? How many times have you voted for independents?
I take the 5th on who I voted for in the last election! :wah:

watermark · Post by **watermark** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:18 pm

I've liked Obama since he began his run awhile back. I'm a completely white person (I'm insulted by blacks who assume I sunbathe in order to be more like them :wah:).

Anyway I will vote either Obama or a woman in office whatever party they ran because there has to be a first time and I'm thoroughly convinced if a minority type became chief then we would have fresh insights and break with these habits that have become so ingrained PLUS I'm pretty certain (98%) that when elected these individuals will have the ear, compassion, and support of most. I think most people can feel the pain of people just starting out. PLUS I'm sure these guys are smart and educated and won't want to lose face with anyone and will try their best and we will be okay.

I really don't want to see a Republican in office at this time being independent all in all but if minorities were there then I'd probably take a look at voting Republican. Well as I write this I'm thinking that might not be the case if they didn't have any good ideas. Then I probably woudn't vote for them. So strike that thought.

Obama isn't like that though. He has a good head on his shoulders and makes me take notice of him. And since I'm such an excellent judge of character....well, you understand.

What's that principle in chemistry when you add certain elements to neutralize or soften the effects of others? Base, acid, hmm..

anyway that's what the next four years has to be for the US. We need a president who can counter the negative effects of an acid government. If that is all he or she does then I'll be pleased. We can't expect a complete healing to occur, but a beginning, yes.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:01 pm

watermark;891349 wrote: I've liked Obama since he began his run awhile back. I'm a completely white person (I'm insulted by blacks who assume I sunbathe in order to be more like them :wah:).

Anyway I will vote either Obama or a woman in office whatever party they ran because there has to be a first time and I'm thoroughly convinced if a minority type became chief then we would have fresh insights and break with these habits that have become so ingrained PLUS I'm pretty certain (98%) that when elected these individuals will have the ear, compassion, and support of most. I think most people can feel the pain of people just starting out. PLUS I'm sure these guys are smart and educated and won't want to lose face with anyone and will try their best and we will be okay.

I really don't want to see a Republican in office at this time being independent all in all but if minorities were there then I'd probably take a look at voting Republican. Well as I write this I'm thinking that might not be the case if they didn't have any good ideas. Then I probably woudn't vote for them. So strike that thought.

Obama isn't like that though. He has a good head on his shoulders and makes me take notice of him. And since I'm such an excellent judge of character....well, you understand.

What's that principle in chemistry when you add certain elements to neutralize or soften the effects of others? Base, acid, hmm..

anyway that's what the next four years has to be for the US. We need a president who can counter the negative effects of an acid government. If that is all he or she does then I'll be pleased. We can't expect a complete healing to occur, but a beginning, yes.

Nothing significant will change, repeat, nothing.

If its Obama, he will be in bed with unions, if McCain, it will be another group. Taxes are going up, the deficit is going up and the promises you hear now will be forgotten. The only thing that will change the way government is run is if we elect a Congress that is able to work as one and get something done for all Americans, not the "working Americans" as the expense of others, not the senior citizens at the expense of the next genration, not big business at the expense of small business. You get the idea.

watermark · Post by **watermark** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:52 pm

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;892003 wrote: Nothing significant will change, repeat, nothing.

If its Obama, he will be in bed with unions, if McCain, it will be another group. Taxes are going up, the deficit is going up and the promises you hear now will be forgotten. The only thing that will change the way government is run is if we elect a Congress that is able to work as one and get something done for all Americans, not the "working Americans" as the expense of others, not the senior citizens at the expense of the next genration, not big business at the expense of small business. You get the idea.

How can you be sure Obama is making promises? When I listen to him speak he is careful in what he says, making no big promises, unlike Hillary did imo. Except for his slogan of Change! whatever that means, I suppose he is saying that he is going to represent the progressive ideas in the world rather than hold onto outdated, dogmatic ones. Never liked his slogan much however he is only human afterall.

Plus Obama isn't taking contributions from lobbiest groups that I'm aware. He's trying hard to raise his campaign money in an honest manner.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:23 pm

rjwould;890754 wrote: Life is not a win/lose proposition, BTS. Life is compromise.

Come into my house unannounced and unwelcome and then find out how defeatist I am.
You are talkin to the wrong guy pal.

I would never :

"Come into yours or any others house unannounced and unwelcome"

So what does this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjwould

Incidentally, I like John McCain as a person, I just think his want to win this Iraq war which is not winnable is a fault, and that to me is dangerous.

Have to do with a defeated attitude on the war in Iraq and how UNWINNABLE it is?

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:37 pm

watermark;892012 wrote: How can you be sure Obama is making promises? When I listen to him speak he is careful in what he says, making no big promises, unlike Hillary did imo. Except for his slogan of Change! whatever that means, I suppose he is saying that he is going to represent the progressive ideas in the world rather than hold onto outdated, dogmatic ones. Never liked his slogan much however he is only human afterall.

Plus Obama isn't taking contributions from lobbiest groups that I'm aware. He's trying hard to raise his campaign money in an honest manner.

Com'on taking money from a lobbyist is irrelevant, one can be influenced in many other ways. Do you honestly think that the big unions don't expect something in return for their support? It's not money it's power that matters.:-5

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:43 pm

Imagine if Obama was actually an African American. If color does not matter how did a person who is 50% caucasian and 50% african automatically become an African American? The only factor that is not 50/50 is the color of his skin and apparently that alone is sufficent for many, many African Americans; and to think I can remember when people of mixed race were shunned by both races, now that is change. :rolleyes::rolleyes: