Aliens debunked by physics

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jennyswan
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Aliens debunked by physics

Post by jennyswan »

I had an interesting coversation with a good friend of mine who happens to be a physicist and he said in his opinion that aliens may exist but physics disproves the theory that they would have ever visited earth unless they were so much more advanced then humans that we just could not comprehend their method. It's a travel thing and that the nearest planet is so far away they just couldn't possibly get here.

Anyway I would be interested in hearing some of your views on this.

I myself don't know whether I believe in Aliens or not. I would think that the world (as in the whole world) is so infinite that it is quite probably that we're not alone but I must say his reasoning has convinced that there would be no little green men visiting us here.

Anyway if you type in alien into any search engine you will come up with hundreds of websites containing massive amounts of information of "alien encounters".

So are all these people delusional or is there just certain things that science can't measure or prove? I would be interested in knowing what you think regarding this.
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jennyswan;847473 wrote: I had an interesting coversation with a good friend of mine who happens to be a physicist and he said in his opinion that aliens may exist but physics disproves the theory that they would have ever visited earth unless they were so much more advanced then humans that we just could not comprehend their method. It's a travel thing and that the nearest planet is so far away they just couldn't possibly get here.

Anyway I would be interested in hearing some of your views on this.

I myself don't know whether I believe in Aliens or not. I would think that the world (as in the whole world) is so infinite that it is quite probably that we're not alone but I must say his reasoning has convinced that there would be no little green men visiting us here.

Anyway if you type in alien into any search engine you will come up with hundreds of websites containing massive amounts of information of "alien encounters".

So are all these people delusional or is there just certain things that science can't measure or prove? I would be interested in knowing what you think regarding this.




in my opinion it is inconceivable and arrogant in the extreme for us earthlings to believe that in a universe of this size ... we are the only form of life ...

being an inhabitant of earth i fully understand why we are being avoided by other intelligent beings ... if you were from another planet ... would you wanna come here?

Jj
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Aliens debunked by physics

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jones jones;847475 wrote: in my opinion it is inconceivable and arrogant in the extreme for us earthlings to believe that in a universe of this size ... we are the only form of life ...

being an inhabitant of earth i fully understand why we are being avoided by other intelligent beings ... if you were from another planet ... would you wanna come here?

Jj


I agree, we must look like a real backward race altogether. I also agree that it would seem that the universe is much too large for us alone. I just think with all the talk about aliens etc on the net though there has never ever been any real proof of them.
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Aliens debunked by physics

Post by jones jones »

jennyswan;847478 wrote: I agree, we must look like a real backward race altogether. I also agree that it would seem that the universe is much too large for us alone. I just think with all the talk about aliens etc on the net though there has never ever been any real proof of them.


there is an interesting ... well i find it interesting ... site on the net called ... above top secret.com ...

take a look at it if you haven't yet ...

Jj
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Aliens debunked by physics

Post by spot »

If I were from another planet I might well want to come here. There are lots of potential reasons why I might want to.

It isn't inconceivable or arrogant in the extreme to argue that in a universe of this size we are the only form of life, there are lots of potential reasons why that might be so. There are lots of potential reasons why it might not be so too.

As for the physics of getting here from there and us comprehending their method I think your good friend the physicist is being slightly coy. We might not be able to create the technology immediately but it would surprise me if we couldn't comprehend it. There are things we've invented since 1908, for example, which physicists in 1908 would have declared impossible to achieve but which they'd have comprehended if we'd been there to explain it to them.

We can manage travel within the Solar System. People have been 250,000 miles so far and got back alive, that's 1.25 light-seconds away. Getting around the Solar System involves pushing out to 8 light-hours, or 23,000 times further. We've sent a couple of unmanned probes that far, I hope you're impressed. I don't think you've reached anywhere with intelligent life so far though.

If you go another 5,500 times as far as that you can reach the nearest dozen stars. Still no intelligent life at a guess. Maybe there is, it's hard to tell. Light takes 5 years to go that far, people would take a lot lot longer if they used chemical or even nuclear rockets. Lifetimes. So, as far as your physicist goes, you can see why he might say what he said. Given additional technology though, who knows, it might just be a step through a doorway to get there for a day-trip visit and another step to get back when you're done, though you might end up in a room that's ten years older then when you left it. Would I want to go if there were a door like that? Absolutely I would, just as if I were from another planet I might well want to come here even for just a day even at such a cost.
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I would love to know what life's out there...
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A new study using the Spitzer Space Telescope has revealed that planets like Earth may be common! The procedure was actually rather simple. They looked at over 300 sun-like stars, and grouped them by ages (very young, young, middle aged, etc). They then used Spitzer to look for the presence of dust around the stars; dust glows in the infrared when warm, and the temperature (and thus the distance of the dust from the star) can be found.

What they found was striking: young stars had lots of dust that was at about the same distance from the star as the Earth is from the Sun, but as stars get older, the amount of dust drops. The timescale for the dust to disappear — a few hundred million years — is roughly the same timescale it takes planets to form. The obvious conclusion is that as time goes on, planets are forming around those stars, and they hoover up the dust. This process would make rocky planets, much like the Earth!

In other words, this study did not directly detect planets, but it found that planet-making material disappears with age. That’s incredibly provocative.

They found that 10-20% of young stars had these disks of dusty debris around them. As it happens, about 10% of the stars in the Milky Way can be categorized as sun-like, which is about 10 billion stars. If 10% of them have rocky planets, as this study indicates, then there may be a billion Earths orbiting stars in our galaxy alone! And that’s only for stars like the Sun; lower mass stars also can form planetary systems, and there are far more of them then stars like the Sun. It is entirely possible that there are many billions of terrestrial planets in the galaxy… and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the Universe.

The Universe may be buzzing with life. We still don’t know, but this is another big step forward.
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jones jones;847973 wrote: The Universe may be buzzing with life. We still don’t know, but this is another big step forward.That post was planets, planets, planets, planets and then in the final paragraph with no warning the planets were life. The process by which you switched seamlessly from the one to the other puzzles me. Perhaps you could expand on that. In what way does the absolute number of planets, or the proportion of planets to stars, have anything to do with the Universe buzzing with life?
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spot;847485 wrote: If I were from another planet I might well want to come here. There are lots of potential reasons why I might want to.

It isn't inconceivable or arrogant in the extreme to argue that in a universe of this size we are the only form of life, there are lots of potential reasons why that might be so. There are lots of potential reasons why it might not be so too.

As for the physics of getting here from there and us comprehending their method I think your good friend the physicist is being slightly coy. We might not be able to create the technology immediately but it would surprise me if we couldn't comprehend it. There are things we've invented since 1908, for example, which physicists in 1908 would have declared impossible to achieve but which they'd have comprehended if we'd been there to explain it to them.

We can manage travel within the Solar System. People have been 250,000 miles so far and got back alive, that's 1.25 light-seconds away. Getting around the Solar System involves pushing out to 8 light-hours, or 23,000 times further. We've sent a couple of unmanned probes that far, I hope you're impressed. I don't think you've reached anywhere with intelligent life so far though.

If you go another 5,500 times as far as that you can reach the nearest dozen stars. Still no intelligent life at a guess. Maybe there is, it's hard to tell. Light takes 5 years to go that far, people would take a lot lot longer if they used chemical or even nuclear rockets. Lifetimes. So, as far as your physicist goes, you can see why he might say what he said. Given additional technology though, who knows, it might just be a step through a doorway to get there for a day-trip visit and another step to get back when you're done, though you might end up in a room that's ten years older then when you left it. Would I want to go if there were a door like that? Absolutely I would, just as if I were from another planet I might well want to come here even for just a day even at such a cost.


Some very good points Spot. That was also one of my arguments with him as well. He is kind of working on the theory that they would be at the same level as we are. Who knows? There may be other beings in the universe who are so far advanced that they can just come here by a method unknown to us. So taking this into account do you think it's possibly that some of the alien theories may have some truth to them?

It is hard to find a story that seems anyway true though and isn't being told by someone who doesn't appear delusional. I must admit to being a huge huge skepdic.
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jones jones;847973 wrote: A new study using the Spitzer Space Telescope has revealed that planets like Earth may be common! The procedure was actually rather simple. They looked at over 300 sun-like stars, and grouped them by ages (very young, young, middle aged, etc). They then used Spitzer to look for the presence of dust around the stars; dust glows in the infrared when warm, and the temperature (and thus the distance of the dust from the star) can be found.

What they found was striking: young stars had lots of dust that was at about the same distance from the star as the Earth is from the Sun, but as stars get older, the amount of dust drops. The timescale for the dust to disappear — a few hundred million years — is roughly the same timescale it takes planets to form. The obvious conclusion is that as time goes on, planets are forming around those stars, and they hoover up the dust. This process would make rocky planets, much like the Earth!

In other words, this study did not directly detect planets, but it found that planet-making material disappears with age. That’s incredibly provocative.

They found that 10-20% of young stars had these disks of dusty debris around them. As it happens, about 10% of the stars in the Milky Way can be categorized as sun-like, which is about 10 billion stars. If 10% of them have rocky planets, as this study indicates, then there may be a billion Earths orbiting stars in our galaxy alone! And that’s only for stars like the Sun; lower mass stars also can form planetary systems, and there are far more of them then stars like the Sun. It is entirely possible that there are many billions of terrestrial planets in the galaxy… and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the Universe.

The Universe may be buzzing with life. We still don’t know, but this is another big step forward.


This is also one of the theories about how the earth and moon were formed.
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jennyswan;848034 wrote: This is also one of the theories about how the earth and moon were formed.




precisely ... and the earth is now teeming with life ...

so leaving aside the biblical myth of creation ... as the earth is now teeming with life it is also possible that all these planets may also support life ...



and even if one accepts the genesis version ... then if a god created the universe and this planet earth supports life ... it could follow that the other planets also do ...
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Post by spot »

jennyswan;848031 wrote: do you think it's possibly that some of the alien theories may have some truth to them?

It is hard to find a story that seems anyway true though and isn't being told by someone who doesn't appear delusional. I must admit to being a huge huge skepdic.


Alien theories as in "thinking aliens have visited this Solar System" at any time in, say, the last million years? I'd rate my odds of having Elvis perform a set at my next birthday party higher.

I'd argue that the chances there's "thinking aliens" anywhere in this Galaxy today are remote. It takes a very small percentage of the lifetime of the Galaxy for a space-faring species to fully colonize the Galaxy and I don't like coincidences. The main coincidence as far as aliens go is "why would we be the first" coupled with "if we're not the first, why haven't the others got here yet?". Any species that is both thinking and not space-faring is doomed to a very brief existence on the time-scale I mentioned, a blink of an eye. Of course they can exist but they can't survive.

There are a boggling number of Galaxies but I don't see the sheer numbers affecting the likelihood that another of them's got intelligent life. The odds don't improve by saying "this one has so why not that one". The only place you can put the question is in a Galaxy that has intelligent life to ask it and we're stood there. That means we know at least one Galaxy has intelligent life but it doesn't hint at the odds another does, the question of that probability remains unaffected by our existence.
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Post by spot »

jones jones;848037 wrote: if a god created the universe and this planet earth supports life ... it could follow that the other planets also do ...
You don't want to distinguish between life and space-faring intelligent life? We're space-faring intelligent life, I thought it was more sensible to compare like with like.

You're suggesting that the Universal Lord Of All Creation accepted the sacrifice of his Only Begotten Son on this one single planet as atonement for the sin of all created beings, JJ? That makes this planet unique out of all those billions of millions of teeming planets your talking about. It would be grotesque if the Second Person of the Trinity had to roll up his sleeves and re-sacrifice himself on every planet where intelligent life evolved, don't you think? As jobs for life go that's a bummer, checking your celestial watch every morning and going off to get nailed up again. It's probably why the Vatican clung onto the Flat Earth for as long as it could - if you throw away the All Creation or the Only Begotten you tear Christianity into nothing.
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spot;848048 wrote: You don't want to distinguish between life and space-faring intelligent life? We're space-faring intelligent life, I thought it was more sensible to compare like with like.

You're suggesting that the Universal Lord Of All Creation accepted the sacrifice of his Only Begotten Son on this one single planet as atonement for the sin of all created beings, JJ? That makes this planet unique out of all those billions of millions of teeming planets your talking about. It would be grotesque if the Second Person of the Trinity had to roll up his sleeves and re-sacrifice himself on every planet where intelligent life evolved, don't you think? As jobs for life go that's a bummer, checking your celestial watch every morning and going off to get nailed up again. It's probably why the Vatican clung onto the Flat Earth for as long as it could - if you throw away the All Creation or the Only Begotten you tear Christianity into nothing.




maybe he had more than one son!!!! you ever consider that possibility???
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spot;848048 wrote: You don't want to distinguish between life and space-faring intelligent life? We're space-faring intelligent life, I thought it was more sensible to compare like with like.

You're suggesting that the Universal Lord Of All Creation accepted the sacrifice of his Only Begotten Son on this one single planet as atonement for the sin of all created beings, JJ? That makes this planet unique out of all those billions of millions of teeming planets your talking about. It would be grotesque if the Second Person of the Trinity had to roll up his sleeves and re-sacrifice himself on every planet where intelligent life evolved, don't you think? As jobs for life go that's a bummer, checking your celestial watch every morning and going off to get nailed up again. It's probably why the Vatican clung onto the Flat Earth for as long as it could - if you throw away the All Creation or the Only Begotten you tear Christianity into nothing.


In my opinion God and science don't mix well together. I think in this enlightened age we could argue for an infinity about the existence or non-existance of God but I find that is why the world is so magnificent. Neither God or science can deny that there are things that go beyond our understanding.

I myself have decided to take what I find makes the most sense in my eyes and believe in that. I suppose at the end of the day that is what everybody does in their heart or is that too sentimental?? :thinking:

I think a lot of people are too afraid to question things because they think their house of cards may come crashing down.

What would also interest me is what do you think of the claims made by pilots etc to have seen UFO (not necessarily alien craft) but Unidentified Flying Objects?
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The ability to create the technology necessary to travel and navigate vast distances is only half the quandary facing another intelligent civilization wishing to visit Earth. The expense of such an endeavor would be (forgive me) astronomical. No civilization can exist without an economy and unless there is a handy wormhole nearby ala Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, I'd say the cost/benefit ratio is, as you might say, pear-shaped.
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The Rob;848118 wrote: The ability to create the technology necessary to travel and navigate vast distances is only half the quandary facing another intelligent civilization wishing to visit Earth. The expense of such an endeavor would be (forgive me) astronomical. No civilization can exist without an economy and unless there is a handy wormhole nearby ala Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, I'd say the cost/benefit ratio is, as you might say, pear-shaped.




always supposing then that THEY ... the extra terrestrials ... do not have a craft capable of travelling at a gazillion times the speed of light????
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The Rob;848118 wrote: The ability to create the technology necessary to travel and navigate vast distances is only half the quandary facing another intelligent civilization wishing to visit Earth. The expense of such an endeavor would be (forgive me) astronomical. No civilization can exist without an economy and unless there is a handy wormhole nearby ala Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, I'd say the cost/benefit ratio is, as you might say, pear-shaped.


I know according to science that they would have to have the same type of physical make up as us but could it be that they would have totally different ways?

Is it not conceivable to think that if there is such a thing as extraterrestrial beings that they would not be like us in any manner?

I think I may have just watched too much science fiction!! :)
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Post by spot »

jones jones;848053 wrote: maybe he had more than one son!!!! you ever consider that possibility???


That's heresy. Report to Inquisition Central for reprocessing.
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jennyswan;848112 wrote: What would also interest me is what do you think of the claims made by pilots etc to have seen UFO (not necessarily alien craft) but Unidentified Flying Objects?I've read what I took to be a fair and detailed history presented to the British Government in 2000, I think its authors made as good a job as they could of finding and analysing the events. I'd go with their conclusion that the events are some natural phenomena and some misinterpreted human activities. The report has about a thousand events in it and each is described together with the steps taken to understand the processes involved.
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jennyswan;848123 wrote: I know according to science that they would have to have the same type of physical make up as us but could it be that they would have totally different ways?

Is it not conceivable to think that if there is such a thing as extraterrestrial beings that they would not be like us in any manner?

I think I may have just watched too much science fiction!! :)


Should intelligent life rise on another planet, the odds are in favor of that intelligence rising in a species that show the survival characteristics of mammals on Earth. They wouldn't necessarily have to be mammals, but they would have to share the adaptive qualities that allowed our mammalians to weather the climate changes and mass extinctions that swept our planet in the past (and are still viable threats for the future).
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Post by spot »

jennyswan;848112 wrote: In my opinion God and science don't mix well together. I've never found the slightest conflict between them and they both form the foundation of how I see life and the universe. What doesn't mix well together is using a word to mean one thing and then using the same word to mean something different. Nobody should ever use conflicted words like God or science without saying what they mean by them.
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Post by jones jones »

when columbus set sail in search of the brave new world so to speak ...

he most likely had people saying ... "hey theres nothing out there dude!"

and others saying ..."hey theres just gotta be intelligent life out there man."

so perhaps we will only know the answer when we get there ... or as someone

once said ... "the answer is a lemon tree!"
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jones jones;848122 wrote: always supposing then that THEY ... the extra terrestrials ... do not have a craft capable of travelling at a gazillion times the speed of light????


I was going to state that nothing can travel faster than light, but then I found this:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Health ... than_light

Still, a radio wave is not a spacecraft, and my observation stands; "they" may very well create a technology (at tremendous expense for research, development, and construction) but the cost to use said technology even for only one vessel for one voyage would likely have even an alien accountant stuttering incoherently. And for what? Their interest in us could only be anthropological since they certainly wouldn't be taking home any technological wonders we offered (or surrendered). It would be like hauling the Queen Mary overland to dock at a trailer park.
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Post by jones jones »

The Rob;848166 wrote: I was going to state that nothing can travel faster than light, but then I found this:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Health ... than_light

Still, a radio wave is not a spacecraft, and my observation stands; "they" may very well create a technology (at tremendous expense for research, development, and construction) but the cost to use said technology even for only one vessel for one voyage would likely have even an alien accountant stuttering incoherently. And for what? Their interest in us could only be anthropological since they certainly wouldn't be taking home any technological wonders we offered (or surrendered). It would be like hauling the Queen Mary overland to dock at a trailer park.




No ... but perhaps they may wanna come home!!!
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

The Rob;848166 wrote: I was going to state that nothing can travel faster than light, but then I found this:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Health ... than_light

Still, a radio wave is not a spacecraft, and my observation stands; "they" may very well create a technology (at tremendous expense for research, development, and construction) but the cost to use said technology even for only one vessel for one voyage would likely have even an alien accountant stuttering incoherently. And for what? Their interest in us could only be anthropological since they certainly wouldn't be taking home any technological wonders we offered (or surrendered). It would be like hauling the Queen Mary overland to dock at a trailer park.


For exactly the same reason that we would if we could. Nothing to do with bringing back trinkets from backwards natives - colonisation and the preservation of the species would be the first driver, then supporting the new colonies, then trade between the colonies and finally exploration.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot;848134 wrote: I've read what I took to be a fair and detailed history presented to the British Government in 2000, I think its authors made as good a job as they could of finding and analysing the events. I'd go with their conclusion that the events are some natural phenomena and some misinterpreted human activities. The report has about a thousand events in it and each is described together with the steps taken to understand the processes involved.


And what if there were a thousand and two incidents. You could check out the thousand given and show that each and every one of them were fully and accurately investigated and disproved but that says nothing about the two real incidents.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

One of the spooliest questions asked to me as a child, was "DO you think that if the human man can invent computers, spaceships etc etc in the last 50 years? Then do you think that in say 5,000 yrs time, modern technology would have progressed into building time machines?

I replied that this was possible going by the speed of technology in the last 50 yrs.

He then told me that if this were true----there is every possibility that the ufo's we are seeing today, could be ourselves returning in time to check on us!!

Weird yes, but it made me think
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by K.Snyder »

I don't think it's a matter of if there are aliens rather when we'll discover them,..or even if we discover them...doesn't mean they don't exist either if we hadn't...Well,..at least not technically by virtue of logic but I suppose philosophically it could mean they do not exist if humans do not discover them...But that would just mean they do not exist to humans...

How anyone could think that a universe proven to be so big would only house the species of Earth completely fascinates me...

It's technically logical...We're here, therefor they can be there...Earth is not the center of the universe, which means that the Earth is made up of fragments of the universe which also means that it's possible for there to be life on other plants, be it terrestrial or gassy...

And as for the correlation of science and God why is it that no one can seem to think that they can coexist?...Something had to have made science...Made it capable of realization...How is it that no one could feel that "God" hadn't made science?...You cannot get 1 from 0...It's absolutely impragmatic...Completely and utterly incomprehensible to the point of 100% implausibility...

The big bang, which is the only reasonable explanation I can fathom, had to have started at some point...

But Aliens?...I whole heartedly believe there are other life forms on other planets...Whether or not they have a higher intellect than worms I don't know...One thing's for sure,..there are worms that can survive unimaginable environments

Tardigrades



(commonly known as water bears) comprise the phylum Tardigrada. They are small, segmented animals, similar and related to the arthropods. Tardigrades were first described by Johann August Ephraim Goeze in 1773 (kleiner Wasserbär = little water bear). The name Tardigrada means "slow walker" and was given by Spallanzani in 1777. The biggest adults may reach a body length of 1.5 mm, the smallest below 0.1 mm. Freshly hatched larvae may be smaller than 0.05 mm.

More than 1000 species of tardigrades have been described. Tardigrades occur over the entire world, from the high Himalayas (above 6,000 m), to the deep sea (below 4,000 m) and from the polar regions to the equator.

The most convenient place to find tardigrades is on lichens and mosses. Other environments are dunes, beaches, soil and marine or freshwater sediments, where they may occur quite frequently (up to 25,000 animals per litre). Tardigrades often can be found by soaking a piece of moss in spring water.

Water bears are able to survive in extreme environments that would kill almost any other animal. Some can survive temperatures close to absolute zero, temperatures as high as 151°C (303°F), 1,000 times more radiation than any other animal, nearly a decade without water, and can also survive in a vacuum like that found in space.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrades

and...



Pompeii worms

The Pompeii worm (Alvinella pompejana) is a deep-sea polychaete vermiform extremophile found only at hydrothermal vents in the Pacific Ocean, discovered in the early 1980s off the Galápagos Islands by French researchers.

Attaching themselves to black smokers, the worms have been found to thrive at temperatures of up to 80°C (176°F), making the Pompeii worm the most heat-tolerant complex animal known to science after the tardigrades (or water bears), which are able to survive temperatures over 150ºC.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii_worm

As well as...

Ice worms

Ice worm refers to any of a number of species of worm that live in glacial ice, such as Mesenchytraeus solifugus, M. harrimani, M. kuril, M. maculatus, and M. obscurus.

The first ice worm species were discovered in 1887 in Alaska, on the Muir Glacier. These glacier ice worms can be found on glaciers in Alaska, Washington, Oregon and British Columbia. They have not been found in other glaciated regions of the world. The name "solifugus" is Latin for "sun-avoiding", as ice worms retreat underneath the ice before dawn. Enzymes in ice worms have very low optimal temperatures, and can be denatured at even a few degrees above 0°C


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_worm

I don't know about you but those are some pretty determined worms...

Water is definitely the key though...The key as any human sees it...
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Post by K.Snyder »

oscar;950732 wrote: One of the spooliest questions asked to me as a child, was "DO you think that if the human man can invent computers, spaceships etc etc in the last 50 years? Then do you think that in say 5,000 yrs time, modern technology would have progressed into building time machines?

I replied that this was possible going by the speed of technology in the last 50 yrs.

He then told me that if this were true----there is every possibility that the ufo's we are seeing today, could be ourselves returning in time to check on us!!

Weird yes, but it made me think


A time machine only begins to be plausible upon the discovering if there's an end to the universe...If there isn't, then time travel is not possible...Time as we know it can only be determined by distance traveled based primarily on human perception...It's a man made invention to accommodate society...All it is is the association of needed outcomes based off of a scale that consists utterly on the Earths' rotation around the Sun...Meaning that when the planet Earth revolved around the Sun at a much faster rate the days were shorter in contrast to now, as well as in the future where the gradient becomes more exclusive...Ultimately in itself rendering the entire concept of "time" based upon the humans perspective inconclusive...This doesn't mean the philosophical sense of "time" does not exist"...The philosophical sense of time becomes pragmatic in that time in this instance is related to the break down of individual moments throughout a single persons' existence on this planet,..or however system you'd like to use but that doesn't change the fact that all of us as humans are mortal...The philosophical viewpoint of time is irrelevant though because we're looking for scientific probability in "time travel"...

Because no one knows if there's an end to space there's no possible way of basing a time structure within it...Therefore the hypothetical scenario of the universe being infinite renders the entire concept of time void by default...

It's not possible as I see it...
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Post by RedGlitter »

K, you completely mess up my head when you go into this. :wah: I am going to go away now and try to form a coherent thought about this and I *may* return. If I don't totally lose myself in the process.

---------------- Listening to: Uncle Kracker / Follow Me via FoxyTunes
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Post by K.Snyder »

jones jones;847475 wrote:

being an inhabitant of earth i fully understand why we are being avoided by other intelligent beings ... if you were from another planet ... would you wanna come here?

Jj


I don't think it's a matter of morale inclination rather they wouldn't want to be exposed to our ignorance...

I mean think about it...We'd look like a bunch of right monkeys to beings with the capabilities of supersonic hyper drive with zero turn capabilities...

Well,..that or someone with a really large gas tank...
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Post by YZGI »

K.Snyder;950868 wrote: I don't think it's a matter of morale inclination rather they wouldn't want to be exposed to our ignorance...



I mean think about it...We'd look like a bunch of right monkeys to beings with the capabilities of supersonic hyper drive with zero turn capabilities...



Well,..that or someone with a really large gas tank...


After reading this Jimbo tried to go back in time on a zero turn mower. Turns out he just went back to bed.:D
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;848143 wrote: I've never found the slightest conflict between them and they both form the foundation of how I see life and the universe. What doesn't mix well together is using a word to mean one thing and then using the same word to mean something different. Nobody should ever use conflicted words like God or science without saying what they mean by them.


Well Spot, I have never had any conflict between god or science.

Science was my most hated subject in school & the one we all regually bunked off. Except for the time the science teacher set fire to his thumb--now, that was just fun. Something to do with phospherous i believe.

God is another issue altogether. He is the person i call when having an orgasm.

OSCAR
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

My husband is so selfish, he calls his own name.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

jimbo;951173 wrote: you are too funny i used to live in bognor where abouts in west susex do you live :D:D





no need for exact address there are nutters online that send you caps :wah::wah:


Heeeyyyy JIMBO,

I worked in Bognor once, down by the sea. God that place smells like shid!

I live in the Sussex Downs just outside of the gay capital of Europe now----Brighton.

It's the only place where you can get your fortune told, get off with a transexual, have an ice cream & still have change from a fiver.

I do travel a bit & recently learnt how nice peeps are in Manchester. Although nearly succumbed to death by tram up there.

Where do you live---in a remote sense. As you said, there are some nutters around & i haven't stalked anyone since my probation officer electronically tagged me.

Now Fox hunting is banned, i enjoy going onto the Sussex Downs just to annoy the hunt---that they can't do any more, Ha Ha Carrying a local fox under your arm tends to hack them off a bit as well.

My brother is very fortunate, he is a millionaire (hate him) & he has stables with various ex racing horses in them. The shetland ponie's sadly had to have electric fencing installed after they all decided to go shopping one day up the high street all on their own. We could not get "Pickles" out of "Toys r us"

Are you close by? Or do you live in a more sensible part of the country?

OSCAR

Went to Newcastle but had to come home as i had a language problem up there.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

jimbo;951259 wrote: YOU NUTTER:wah::wah:





i live in bracknell now but i go down to portsmouth quite a lot , i love the sense of humour of the south coast the more you go inland the more people have a stick up their ass :D


Could not agree more JIMBO. AAHH Porstmouth, i remember her well along with most of the merchant Navy.

You see when your on the south coast, you are classed as a cockney, yeah, i know, no sense of direction these londoners. Have you been to "Seaworld" in Portsmouth as that is shid as well. Not my fav tourist attraction but i do love all the naval connections & the fantastic one way system. (Not)

Once you move into Bracknell ( a jolly up market place) the peeps become posher & your no longer known as a "Townie"

You will be not far from my old haunt, "The Chichester County Court". I had to go there alot about my stalking problems & it was the only time i could see my boyfriend who was a judge. However, i did draw the line at him wearing the wig in bed. Mind you, it did talk more sense than him.

Seriously married now & have had to curb my behaviour.

My husband is recovering from advanced cancer so i have to be a little sensible.

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Going back to the alien theory. Perhaps they did land here

some long time ago.

If they landed in the middle of the gobi dessert, they would have deemed our planet uninhabitable & returned as we did upon landing on the moon. That's what happens around the Sea of Tranquility.

Or perhaps, they landed at a "Brighton & Hove Albion" home game, only to find three people & decided it wasn't worth it.

I think the moon landing was a huge conspiricy any-way. I am sure i have seen the same stretch of rock in the scene from "Casino" film in the Nevada dessert.

I must say, i am recently concerned over these crop formations---far too accurate for my liking.

OSCAR
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Post by weirdvideos »

Excellent. There are better arguments, but for simplicity this is good. Notice MOSt people (deceived?) think it is absurd to say there is no other life out there beyond earth. It sounds good. But, it is more absurd to think that there are. I am goning to say, "Look all you want, believe all you want, it's just a religious belief you have, that there are aliens - non-humans out there." This may not sound or be logical, but it WILL end up ebing VERY TRUE. So far, man hasn't even found any TRUE conclusive proof for microbes, or any proper mixture of elements and environments conducive to life. They havge found NO life on the Moon, none on Mars, and for that matter they will NOT find any anywhere else. If they cannot produce just ONE "alien" microbe from Mars or elsewhere, then ask yourself, what is the likely hood of there being any anywhere else. Our solar system is super unique, and it so happens planet earth is the only LIFE environment so far. If we cannot (and we have not, and will not) find any life just a penny pitch away from us here, then that tells me the arguement that life XCOULD be billions of light years somewhere else is "evasive" logic. Lets stick CLOSE to home, and see what we FIND or not, IN this solar system. Something just tells me that IF we cannot find life outside our planet close by, then forget it in another solar system. THERE HAS to be a CENTRAL point (mono-genetic) origin point for life, and planet earth is it. I say, the Universe is "STERILE", and until someone proves otherwise, My arguement from the silence of evidence holds supremacy - until debunked with FACTS OTHERWISE. Good Luck, cultic Alien hunters! that is all you are - a cult.
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weirdvideos;1417806 wrote: Excellent. There are better arguments, but for simplicity this is good. Notice MOSt people (deceived?) think it is absurd to say there is no other life out there beyond earth. It sounds good. But, it is more absurd to think that there are. I am goning to say, "Look all you want, believe all you want, it's just a religious belief you have, that there are aliens - non-humans out there." This may not sound or be logical, but it WILL end up ebing VERY TRUE. So far, man hasn't even found any TRUE conclusive proof for microbes, or any proper mixture of elements and environments conducive to life. They havge found NO life on the Moon, none on Mars, and for that matter they will NOT find any anywhere else. If they cannot produce just ONE "alien" microbe from Mars or elsewhere, then ask yourself, what is the likely hood of there being any anywhere else. Our solar system is super unique, and it so happens planet earth is the only LIFE environment so far. If we cannot (and we have not, and will not) find any life just a penny pitch away from us here, then that tells me the arguement that life XCOULD be billions of light years somewhere else is "evasive" logic. Lets stick CLOSE to home, and see what we FIND or not, IN this solar system. Something just tells me that IF we cannot find life outside our planet close by, then forget it in another solar system. THERE HAS to be a CENTRAL point (mono-genetic) origin point for life, and planet earth is it. I say, the Universe is "STERILE", and until someone proves otherwise, My arguement from the silence of evidence holds supremacy - until debunked with FACTS OTHERWISE. Good Luck, cultic Alien hunters! that is all you are - a cult.That's some statement. A lot of us have been waiting for you to show up, God.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by weirdvideos »

OK, ... here we go.

Looking for "alien" life (microbes, etc) beyond earth's protective atmosphere:

Let's argue from silence, like everyone has to - for now.

First, I want to say, "slience" is in my favour as to my position: "No life to be found beyond earth."

Add up ALL the outerspace probe tests: Apollo, Viking, etc.

NEG. 1

then add another probe find:

NEG-2

Question: What does (-1) + (-1) + (-1) + (-1), etc, sum up to?

Answer: Surly never a POSITIVE! Always a negative number. Do this 1 million times = a big fat negative.

So, until someone produces a solid conclusive FACT of "ALIEN" life, even a microbe, bacteria?, etc., my (our) position stands.

Take our position as that of the prosecution in a court case:

We present the prosecution arguement.

The "DEFENSE" must now disprove our charge.

The defense is all those folks who support "ALIEN PRESENCE".

The monkey is not on the back of the defense to PROVE the prosecution wrong.

Now you MUST prove our prosecution argument that there is NO LIFE beyond earthy as false, by producing a life form NOT OF EARTH.

Until then, I guess everyone is innocent? Until proven otherwise?

Or should we use Admiralty LAW in this case? Guilty until proved innocent.

YOU ARE GUILTY until you prove "you" are RIGHT about alien life forms.

:o)
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

weirdvideos;1417831 wrote: OK, ... here we go.

Looking for "alien" life (microbes, etc) beyond earth's protective atmosphere:

Let's argue from silence, like everyone has to - for now.

First, I want to say, "slience" is in my favour as to my position: "No life to be found beyond earth."

Add up ALL the outerspace probe tests: Apollo, Viking, etc.

NEG. 1

then add another probe find:

NEG-2

Question: What does (-1) + (-1) + (-1) + (-1), etc, sum up to?

Answer: Surly never a POSITIVE! Always a negative number. Do this 1 million times = a big fat negative.

So, until someone produces a solid conclusive FACT of "ALIEN" life, even a microbe, bacteria?, etc., my (our) position stands.

Take our position as that of the prosecution in a court case:

We present the prosecution arguement.

The "DEFENSE" must now disprove our charge.

The defense is all those folks who support "ALIEN PRESENCE".

The monkey is not on the back of the defense to PROVE the prosecution wrong.

Now you MUST prove our prosecution argument that there is NO LIFE beyond earthy as false, by producing a life form NOT OF EARTH.

Until then, I guess everyone is innocent? Until proven otherwise?

Or should we use Admiralty LAW in this case? Guilty until proved innocent.

YOU ARE GUILTY until you prove "you" are RIGHT about alien life forms.

:o)


OK, let's argue from silence.

Within out solar system there is a very narrow band that can or could have evolved life - we occupy it. There is no reason to suppose that we will find other live within our solar system, we need to look outside.

None of our probes have yet left the solar system.

Given the cube law in respect to signal strength of a broadcast signal, we can only expect to communicate over interstellar distances using directed transmission - they need to know we're here to get a signal to us.

So far we have been sending out signals that might advertise our presence for a century. If you take signals that would be receivable from beyond the edge of our solar system then make that fifty years.

Even taking the longer timescale, the means we might have initiated a conversation with our nearest ¿dozen? neighbours. There are billions of possible homes for aliens in the universe, we cannot write off the existence of aliens based on a sample of a dozen out of billions.
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Post by Ahso! »

I can certainly appreciate the requirement of proof in order to be convinced, but that's a far cry from "there has to be central point origin of life and planet earth is it." Our species has only begun the quest of discovering what else is out in the universe. And it's soooooooooo big and forever expanding.

Your argument seems to be that earth is the center of the universe, and from what little we've seen so far, the universe has no center.

Welcome to FG, BTW.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Snowfire »

Its arrogant in the extreme to suppose that not only are we the centre of the universe but there is no life anywhere else in the billions of galaxies

'Most Earth-like planet' discovered by NASA - Technology & Science - CBC News



The habitable zone is the region around a star where liquid water might exist on the surface of a planet and conditions are favourable for life.


We are not expecting to find life in the rest of the solar system, except that which may have evident billions of years ago, when the solar system was a different place
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Post by weirdvideos »

I said, earth is the "life" central point. leave out geographical.

"anthropocentric".

Again, dig up a life form and i'll change my religion.
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Post by Ahso! »

weirdvideos;1417870 wrote: I said, earth is the "life" central point. leave out geographical.

"anthropocentric".

Again, dig up a life form and i'll change my religion.It's not necessary for me - as I said, I can appreciate your skepticism. For me, I personally think there probably is other life out there somewhere. It's just too big for me think otherwise.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by Ahso! »

Snowfire;1417860 wrote: Its arrogant in the extreme to suppose that not only are we the centre of the universe but there is no life anywhere else in the billions of galaxies

'Most Earth-like planet' discovered by NASA - Technology & Science - CBC News





We are not expecting to find life in the rest of the solar system, except that which may have evident billions of years ago, when the solar system was a different placeThing is that with the Universe expanding as it appears to be doing and the galaxies moving further and further apart, assuming our planet is still habitable, there will come a time when there won't be any other observable anything as far as we can see, and those living at that time will indeed believe that our galaxy is the center of the universe. A self-fulfilling untruth. That's something!

The questions to ask then is: will the idea of God still be relevant? Will anything we now know survive till then? If so, will those living believe it?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Snowfire »

Ahso!;1417875 wrote: Thing is that with the Universe expanding as it appears to be doing and the galaxies moving further and further apart, assuming our planet is still habitable, there will come a time when there won't be any other observable anything as far as we can see, and those living at that time will indeed believe that our galaxy is the center of the universe. A self-fulfilling untruth. That's something!

The questions to ask then is: will the idea of God still be relevant? Will anything we now know survive till then? If so, will those living believe it?


Its a good question to ponder.

The thought of a night sky devoid of a milky way or stars in any way is quite a depressing contemplation. By then KOI-172.02 will have been maybe the first stepping stone to the far reaches of other galaxies
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