I've heard people saying this kind of thing for years, that trauma in childhood or early life can/is the reason some people turn bad or commit crime or turn to drugs .
Is it true ....are there facts to back it up or is it just an excuse that people use because they've taken the wrong path.
I actually know plenty of people who dispite having a bad start in life have gone on to be exceptional human beings that have never broken the law, taken drugs or hurt a living soul . One person who in fact i went to school with (she was a year below me) . At a very young age her father died and her mother became an alcoholic and her and her sister ended up in foster care where she went on to be sexually abused by her foster father .. She's now married a mother of three, a trained counsellor and living very happily in Essex.:-6
I believe it's just a cop out. I've seen people grow up in the same family, with the same tragedies, one turned out to be a nonproductive member of society, the rest turned out to be hard working, caring individuals.
People either choose to let tragedies beat them down, or they choose to overcome them.
I've broken the law before. I've taken drugs before. I think I'm a pretty good person. There are differences in people's ability to reason. I think sometimes we look at the world as if everyone in it is seeing the same thing we are. It isn't so.
You can also ask why a person who is being abused refuses to leave them. What is the relevance in the query? Wanting to end crime? Crime happens in all forms. One of the reasons we end up with "low end" crime - the stuff we talk about most - is because no one is making advances in solving white collar crime - which reduces the resources available to society, resulting in poverty.
It is my firm belief that turning out good or bad or something in between is due entirely to the choices that we make as individuals. I don't believe that anyone deliberately sets out to be good or bad, but is faced with certain choices. And for the most part, many of those choices are dependent on observation and environment. Who do we CHOOSE to associate with? Who do we ADMIRE? Bad choices have a way of escalating into very serious results.
You choose to go in a car with a (friend?) that you know to be involved in criminal activity, who subsequently, unknown to you, just robbed a store.
You and your friend are arrested and you are faced with several choices after that, BUT, INITIALLY YOU CHOSE THE FRIEND, AND YOU CHOSE TO GO WITH HIM IN THE CAR.
koan;778260 wrote: Even Martha Stewart ended up in jail.
I've broken the law before. I've taken drugs before. I think I'm a pretty good person. There are differences in people's ability to reason. I think sometimes we look at the world as if everyone in it is seeing the same thing we are. It isn't so.
You can also ask why a person who is being abused refuses to leave them. What is the relevance in the query? Wanting to end crime? Crime happens in all forms. One of the reasons we end up with "low end" crime - the stuff we talk about most - is because no one is making advances in solving white collar crime - which reduces the resources available to society, resulting in poverty.
Yes it is true. It is simply how you react to events and series of event that determine how you are goign to act and whats going to happen next, and what will happen to you and with you.
Not os much what happen but how oyu react to it, thats why its important to be well prepared for it home from or form what you learn and teach yourself.
If oyu dont then it will be more difficul, or if you follow a way of reacting and oding things that is wrong because it lead to consequences you will be unable ot cope with without damaging you.
and it is often a vicious circle. The art to break it is the art to live, and not just survive in spite of what life throw at you.
This is the question of nature versus nurture isn't it. How can anyone answer that 100%. With the benefit of hindsight we can look back on someone's life and point to the signs that 'caused' them to behave in the way they ultimately do but if you put a different person in the same circumstances would they turn out the same? Who knows.
I've known people live through some horrendous events in childhood - hasn't made them 'bad', it's made them more compassionate and aware of others suffering.
Then you get the complete gits who've had life very easy and turn out not that nice to know!!
I do believe that mental health can affect the person you become due to adversity and also that choice plays a part, you can decide how you want to be.
koan;778260 wrote: Even Martha Stewart ended up in jail. .......
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfldon't know why this cracked me up, it just did..
where did you pull that example from??:wah:
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
I don't think that a childhood that sucks is any excuse for the way we live our life as adults. If we are emotionally or physically beaten into nothing... then what emerges from that nothingness is still of our choosing, IMO.
If I can reason, then I can choose. If I choose, I am responsible for that choice.:-6
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Intersting Carl44 then explain to me why most of the truly evil people on this planet are for the most part MEN..
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
but how many men spread gossip in the play ground whilst picking up the kids
The worst gossips I've ever met are men!!!! They don't pick up the kids 'cos they are too busy stiching each other up or creeping to the boss at work!!!:sneaky:
Most Men don't pick up their kids. At least not from what I see when I picked up my Daughter and Granddaugter. Gossip, who the heck has time to gossip, surely not any of the over worked and under paid women I know :-5.
MEN are usually causing trouble some where on the planet be they murders, or ones with way to much power. They always seem to be out doing each other.
Women not so much we have way better things to do. Like take care of their children and try to make sure they don't turn out evil.
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
I have to admit i agree with all of you who said they felt it was just a cop out . I believe we choose our own path in life, be it good or bad and to blame others for our own actions is kinda weak......we have the ability to make choices plain and simple . I also think for instance a person trying something once doesn't make a person bad (like trying drugs) it's when you continue to take them to the point you become addicted and that inturn makes you turn to crime, that's when a person proves their bad.
I think it is a choice one makes, and it isn't just because they had a hard life that they turn out bad. Sometimes it might be, but there are a lot out there that didn't have it hard and went down the wrong road.
There is parents who really nasty on their childrens.
or because they dont care of them at all or treat them badly and beat them just for fun and/or are alcoholic and on druggs and send the child even in the middle of the nigth to buy bottles for them, or wake them up to beat them cause they are drunk, and crazy, or come back from a bar drunk and break all in the house and beat the mother.
There si also those who are extremistically religious and abuse kids home, often sexually, or they call them satan and beat them and force them into things as an excsue to rince them for imaginary sins..
There is also parents who are crazy, medicaly, and who build up their kids with fear all their life, thsoe kids often turn out schyzophrenic.
There is also parents who are too protectiv, all the time watching what the kid does, not letting themany freedom, no choice about anything so the child always think he isnt good enough and unable to od a thing, and they often turn out wantgn to kill themselves cause they are no good for anybody.. i knew one kid like that he was afraid to take the bus alone and to go to librairy or anywhere even the gym.. and then even wih his mum he was afraid to do so, he couldnt function anymore at all and was really desperate. He needed professional help, but he was also completely scare to tlak in the phone, so he couldnt even ask for help himself, and was unable to say it.
As he was undrage he couldnt do much, and he wanted to talk with his doctor about it, but his mum inssited to come and be there, so he couldnt tell the odc aboutit even he had made a list. he finaly got to see a psychologist, but that person was unaware of the problem to begin with and totally unexperienced in that kind of things.. and thats how it can go really wrong..
You have to keep in mind that if the children are not guided when they are small, but also are presented with a disfuntioning way to run life, and show rules who are completely unfair and limitating and hurting all the time, they will develop a shell to protect them from the outer world, and like it was show them that their feelings doesnt count and their pain and hurts, they will also be careless of otehr people feeligns and pan, and thats why some end up like psychopath, meaning they have absolulty no empathy what so ever to otehr people feeligns and no sense what so ever ofr situation.
They do not see rigth from wrong, as all their childwhood thsoe concept were inversed.
For a child, mum and dad are God.
What they do and all what they do is the rigth thing to do no matter what.
It stays there.
And the hardest the childhood was, the most it imprint one and cant move from there, and will see those things the parents did and the mentalities and values behind it as their set of ethic too, and thats also why often, psychopath start theur serial killing by killing their parents.
Their ego will be overcome by the over ego. the over ego is the society around oyu or your boss or oyur father, the largest figure above oyu, who dictate your actions and to whom your ego have to bow over.. at some points the ego of the child or grown up one, will revolt agaisnt it, but it often happen when it has already became one with the overego, got assimilated by it, so he think he is the one in command, and it will became that monster ego who will just did as evil as was done to him or her and will kill the previous pver ego: here the parents, and from there will do all waht was printed into the child memory all the time. there is no way out of here. It is so deep that it is like impossible to exorcise the wrong doen to the child.
Often parents are bad to the kid already as a baby, a few months old, burning and beating the baby.
That baby knows where the hurting comes from. For him, pain means motherhood and fatherhood, for him there is no difference anymore between good and bad, wrong and rigth, those have been wipped off already.
All are born with the sense of wrong and rigth, those are underlined and guided by the environement, or distorted or completely eluded or even reversed by what the parents or other around him or her does during all the childhood.
Sometimes on event perpetrated by soemone important, can reverse all the rest.
As your action as adult are basd on what you got form home, and as how you react to a situation depends on how good a luggage you ahve from home, if that luggage was rotten in any way or completely, your path too will be rotten in one or several ways.
So yes how oyu are brought up has a strong influence on how you will turn out ot be.
and we are all build differently so this too has a play in it.
Try to think about kids who grow up in an orphange, some are ok, but most are bad and runed by people wiht little or no understanding about kids needs and no care about the emotional needs, before even not enough of the practical like soap food and clothes..
all they have are strict rules and the knowledge that they are outcast, that becasue they dont ahve parents they are less than anyone else and that bagalge follow you all yoru life or most of your life if you are lucky enough to can get rid of that picture of yoruself.
Some will only have very low pay job and other will turn into drugg to can tolerate ebign them, being an orphan, an outcast, and the shame they feel about it... who was given to them at the orphanage and at school..
So yes what other do to oyu around you has a strong impact in what you will become.
Alæso think about the orphanages runed by monk and pristes who sexually abused thsoe kids systematically. And also those non religious ones, who also did so.
Where do you turn to when you are not even a teenage, and you are lock down in an institution like that and cant reach out to anyone on the outside for help, and feel so ashame?
There is also people who come from very good families ahd all they needed but turned out bad cause thy wanted to, on their free will, they wanted to try things, to ahve fun, and did for fun, what others did becasue they were feelign desperate.
And there si a big difference there.
the choice. and the non choice.
Its like stealing.. stealing bread and butter is not the same as stealing expensive clothes or jewlery. One need to eat the other is motivated by envy.
Geronimo;779768 wrote: There is parents who really nasty on their childrens.
or because they dont care of them at all or treat them badly and beat them just for fun and/or are alcoholic and on druggs and send the child even in the middle of the nigth to buy bottles for them, or wake them up to beat them cause they are drunk, and crazy, or come back from a bar drunk and break all in the house and beat the mother.
There si also those who are extremistically religious and abuse kids home, often sexually, or they call them satan and beat them and force them into things as an excsue to rince them for imaginary sins..
There is also parents who are crazy, medicaly, and who build up their kids with fear all their life, thsoe kids often turn out schyzophrenic.There is also parents who are too protectiv, all the time watching what the kid does, not letting themany freedom, no choice about anything so the child always think he isnt good enough and unable to od a thing, and they often turn out wantgn to kill themselves cause they are no good for anybody.. i knew one kid like that he was afraid to take the bus alone and to go to librairy or anywhere even the gym.. and then even wih his mum he was afraid to do so, he couldnt function anymore at all and was really desperate. He needed professional help, but he was also completely scare to tlak in the phone, so he couldnt even ask for help himself, and was unable to say it.
As he was undrage he couldnt do much, and he wanted to talk with his doctor about it, but his mum inssited to come and be there, so he couldnt tell the odc aboutit even he had made a list. he finaly got to see a psychologist, but that person was unaware of the problem to begin with and totally unexperienced in that kind of things.. and thats how it can go really wrong..
You have to keep in mind that if the children are not guided when they are small, but also are presented with a disfuntioning way to run life, and show rules who are completely unfair and limitating and hurting all the time, they will develop a shell to protect them from the outer world, and like it was show them that their feelings doesnt count and their pain and hurts, they will also be careless of otehr people feeligns and pan, and thats why some end up like psychopath, meaning they have absolulty no empathy what so ever to otehr people feeligns and no sense what so ever ofr situation.
They do not see rigth from wrong, as all their childwhood thsoe concept were inversed.
For a child, mum and dad are God.
What they do and all what they do is the rigth thing to do no matter what.
It stays there.
And the hardest the childhood was, the most it imprint one and cant move from there, and will see those things the parents did and the mentalities and values behind it as their set of ethic too, and thats also why often, psychopath start theur serial killing by killing their parents.
Their ego will be overcome by the over ego. the over ego is the society around oyu or your boss or oyur father, the largest figure above oyu, who dictate your actions and to whom your ego have to bow over.. at some points the ego of the child or grown up one, will revolt agaisnt it, but it often happen when it has already became one with the overego, got assimilated by it, so he think he is the one in command, and it will became that monster ego who will just did as evil as was done to him or her and will kill the previous pver ego: here the parents, and from there will do all waht was printed into the child memory all the time. there is no way out of here. It is so deep that it is like impossible to exorcise the wrong doen to the child.
Often parents are bad to the kid already as a baby, a few months old, burning and beating the baby.
That baby knows where the hurting comes from. For him, pain means motherhood and fatherhood, for him there is no difference anymore between good and bad, wrong and rigth, those have been wipped off already.
All are born with the sense of wrong and rigth, those are underlined and guided by the environement, or distorted or completely eluded or even reversed by what the parents or other around him or her does during all the childhood.
Sometimes on event perpetrated by soemone important, can reverse all the rest.
As your action as adult are basd on what you got form home, and as how you react to a situation depends on how good a luggage you ahve from home, if that luggage was rotten in any way or completely, your path too will be rotten in one or several ways.
So yes how oyu are brought up has a strong influence on how you will turn out ot be.
and we are all build differently so this too has a play in it.
Try to think about kids who grow up in an orphange, some are ok, but most are bad and runed by people wiht little or no understanding about kids needs and no care about the emotional needs, before even not enough of the practical like soap food and clothes..
all they have are strict rules and the knowledge that they are outcast, that becasue they dont ahve parents they are less than anyone else and that bagalge follow you all yoru life or most of your life if you are lucky enough to can get rid of that picture of yoruself.
Some will only have very low pay job and other will turn into drugg to can tolerate ebign them, being an orphan, an outcast, and the shame they feel about it... who was given to them at the orphanage and at school..
So yes what other do to oyu around you has a strong impact in what you will become.
Alæso think about the orphanages runed by monk and pristes who sexually abused thsoe kids systematically. And also those non religious ones, who also did so.
Where do you turn to when you are not even a teenage, and you are lock down in an institution like that and cant reach out to anyone on the outside for help, and feel so ashame?
There is also people who come from very good families ahd all they needed but turned out bad cause thy wanted to, on their free will, they wanted to try things, to ahve fun, and did for fun, what others did becasue they were feelign desperate.
And there si a big difference there.
the choice. and the non choice.
Its like stealing.. stealing bread and butter is not the same as stealing expensive clothes or jewlery. One need to eat the other is motivated by envy.
Oh, i noticed your banned but i'll respond anyway .
I'm not buying it, what ever happens in a persons childhood it's still never an excuse to behave badly in adulthood ...if you knew it was wrong then why repeat it in later life . How often do you hear someone convicted of murder complain that they had a mean mum and had a hard life . If your beaten as a child does it then give you the right as an adult to go out and beat another human being ...NO there's a thing in life called taking responsibility for ones actions, an being accountable .
