In my newbie intro post I was invited to "jump in" and start a thread, so here goes.
The question about who Jesus is has been around a long time as we see from this scripture:
27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am?
28 And they answered, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets. 29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
It has sparked many heated discussions. Do you have any thoughts on why it is such a touchy subject?
Thanks
Bobby
Attached files
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
I did not vote, as there was not an option I could choose.
I would say that Jesus was someone who existed in the past, maybe it was one person or maybe many. There are many people who have received comfort, guidance and hope from the bible, and their belief in the existence of God and his son.
Welcome to FG, happy postings :-6
I would say that Jesus was someone who existed in the past, maybe it was one person or maybe many. There are many people who have received comfort, guidance and hope from the bible, and their belief in the existence of God and his son.
Welcome to FG, happy postings :-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
The question is do we have any thoughts on why "whom do men say that Jesus is" is such a touchy subject.
Why it's such a touchy question is that someone back in the 1st century decided that Christians knew the truth about God and - more to the point - that nobody else did. Let's call him George. Some people believe they know who George actually was, the guy who had this idea, but all I know is that he existed. Some people think George was God himself, some people think the guy who thought it was Jesus, or maybe he was John the Evangelist, or perhaps he was just the bloke who wrote John's Gospel - the man who wrote "we know that his testimony is true" - who claimed he'd got the story from Saint John himself (from "the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down"). Or perhaps George was Saint Paul. Whichever of them had it, the notion that nobody else but Christians knew the truth about God was extreme.
George's idea ended up in the bible, where the author of John's Gospel says that Saint John informed him that he'd heard Jesus tell Saint Thomas that "No one comes to the Father except through me". It ended up in Saint Luke's account of the questioning of Saints Peter and John before the Sanhedrin where Peter tells them that "It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead ... salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved". George has a lot to answer for, this idea he had has been the cause immeasurable suffering and slaughter since. This is what the Crusades were about. This is why we have evangelists and missionaries, this idea that nothing other than Christian faith - the power of the name of Jesus Christ - can lead a person into the presence of God.
Somehow, this idea of George's has to be shown to be fallible because it's destructive. Either George's opinion can be treated as non-binding or Christianity has to go the way of the Dodo. George's bright idea leads to pogroms, it causes holocausts, it starts wars, it kills people. There are too many people who insist that nobody can be a Christian who denies the truth of George's opinion for it to be set aside as a trivial extreme fringe theory held only by nutters. I think it's more Christian to destroy the entire flawed religion and start again from scratch.
Why it's such a touchy question is that someone back in the 1st century decided that Christians knew the truth about God and - more to the point - that nobody else did. Let's call him George. Some people believe they know who George actually was, the guy who had this idea, but all I know is that he existed. Some people think George was God himself, some people think the guy who thought it was Jesus, or maybe he was John the Evangelist, or perhaps he was just the bloke who wrote John's Gospel - the man who wrote "we know that his testimony is true" - who claimed he'd got the story from Saint John himself (from "the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down"). Or perhaps George was Saint Paul. Whichever of them had it, the notion that nobody else but Christians knew the truth about God was extreme.
George's idea ended up in the bible, where the author of John's Gospel says that Saint John informed him that he'd heard Jesus tell Saint Thomas that "No one comes to the Father except through me". It ended up in Saint Luke's account of the questioning of Saints Peter and John before the Sanhedrin where Peter tells them that "It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead ... salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved". George has a lot to answer for, this idea he had has been the cause immeasurable suffering and slaughter since. This is what the Crusades were about. This is why we have evangelists and missionaries, this idea that nothing other than Christian faith - the power of the name of Jesus Christ - can lead a person into the presence of God.
Somehow, this idea of George's has to be shown to be fallible because it's destructive. Either George's opinion can be treated as non-binding or Christianity has to go the way of the Dodo. George's bright idea leads to pogroms, it causes holocausts, it starts wars, it kills people. There are too many people who insist that nobody can be a Christian who denies the truth of George's opinion for it to be set aside as a trivial extreme fringe theory held only by nutters. I think it's more Christian to destroy the entire flawed religion and start again from scratch.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Spot. I appreciate you very thorough approach to my post. Believe it or not I enjoyed reading it. I guess a lot of people think that Christians are very one sighted, narrow minded people. My observation is that "Christainity" has been blamed for wars, death, destruction, and other horrible outcomes. I would like to submit that it is not a belief in Jesus as the only way to know God and an aceptance of His gift of life that causes this distortion. I think it is the pursuit of power that such an idea might give those who profess it that causes the trouble. There are many ordinary men with extraordinary ideas that have led to hatred and destruction. (Hitler for example). Just imagine how his (Hitler's) followers must have thought what they were doing was right. Jesus' teachings do not condone such activity. IMHO Jesus could have put an end to it long ago, however He does not want to be our dictator. In the Old Testament days God's chosen people destorted the will of God to the point that it had to be fulfilled by Christ's death and resurrection. Christians need to realize we are not here to rule the world, we should be seeking a higher Kingdom. We are taught to be a humble people, but some even so called "Christians" cannot let go of their humaness.
Bobby
Bobby
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Jester;774757 wrote: Jesus is messiah, the son of God, the man, who by sacrifice offers salvation to all by justifying all those who believe and delcare them sinless before God re-establishing the relationship that was broken because of sin.
Amen.
Jester, I say Amen to ALL that!
Bobby
Amen.
Jester, I say Amen to ALL that!
Bobby
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
BHughesNC;774758 wrote: Spot. I appreciate you very thorough approach to my post. Believe it or not I enjoyed reading it. I guess a lot of people think that Christians are very one sighted, narrow minded people. My observation is that "Christainity" has been blamed for wars, death, destruction, and other horrible outcomes. I would like to submit that it is not a belief in Jesus as the only way to know God and an aceptance of His gift of life that causes this distortion. I think it is the pursuit of power that such an idea might give those who profess it that causes the trouble. There are many ordinary men with extraordinary ideas that have led to hatred and destruction. (Hitler for example). Just imagine how his (Hitler's) followers must have thought what they were doing was right. Jesus' teachings do not condone such activity. IMHO Jesus could have put an end to it long ago, however He does not want to be our dictator. In the Old Testament days God's chosen people destorted the will of God to the point that it had to be fulfilled by Christ's death and resurrection. Christians need to realize we are not here to rule the world, we should be seeking a higher Kingdom. We are taught to be a humble people, but some even so called "Christians" cannot let go of their humaness.
Bobby
It's all very well trying to dodge Christianity's responsibility for interpreting the bible in such an extreme way but the results you describe are a consequence of the interpretation. If nobody comes to the Father save through the Son then where do these non-Christians all end up? In hell, of course. What do we do with the hell-bound wherever we find them on earth? Convert them or send them on their way. This isn't a Hitlerian response as you suggest, this is what the Godly do to the Hell-bound (for their own good, you understand). They go out and evangelize in order to save them.They convert those who would otherwise be damned. If any refuse salvation, why on earth not kill them? They're actively preventing the conversion of others by their example and they're worse than worthless because they're not going to Heaven, they are not destined for the Choir Celestial, they are demonic.
Now, if Christians were capable of accepting that there are other paths to God besides Christianity all this slaughter and mayhem disappears, the future becomes rosy and we no longer end up wanting to nuke devil-worshipping Iranians back into the stone age. Who's stopping them? Bloody George is, that's who, and I don't for one moment care who bloody George was, he called it wrong and he reaped the most ungodly consequences from opening his big mouth. The least his modern-day co-religionists can do is to apologize on his behalf.
Christians "need to realize we are not here to rule the world, we should be seeking a higher Kingdom"? That's perfect when the internal rules are applied internally. Reading what George wrote, though, you feel a burning desire to go out among the unsaved and salvage souls, and that's where wars start.
Why can't you simply contradict George instead?
Bobby
It's all very well trying to dodge Christianity's responsibility for interpreting the bible in such an extreme way but the results you describe are a consequence of the interpretation. If nobody comes to the Father save through the Son then where do these non-Christians all end up? In hell, of course. What do we do with the hell-bound wherever we find them on earth? Convert them or send them on their way. This isn't a Hitlerian response as you suggest, this is what the Godly do to the Hell-bound (for their own good, you understand). They go out and evangelize in order to save them.They convert those who would otherwise be damned. If any refuse salvation, why on earth not kill them? They're actively preventing the conversion of others by their example and they're worse than worthless because they're not going to Heaven, they are not destined for the Choir Celestial, they are demonic.
Now, if Christians were capable of accepting that there are other paths to God besides Christianity all this slaughter and mayhem disappears, the future becomes rosy and we no longer end up wanting to nuke devil-worshipping Iranians back into the stone age. Who's stopping them? Bloody George is, that's who, and I don't for one moment care who bloody George was, he called it wrong and he reaped the most ungodly consequences from opening his big mouth. The least his modern-day co-religionists can do is to apologize on his behalf.
Christians "need to realize we are not here to rule the world, we should be seeking a higher Kingdom"? That's perfect when the internal rules are applied internally. Reading what George wrote, though, you feel a burning desire to go out among the unsaved and salvage souls, and that's where wars start.
Why can't you simply contradict George instead?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
BHughesNC:-6
Welcome. I do hope you enjoy your wanderings in the garden.
I do agree with some of what spot says. However, and at the moment I cannot remember the source, more people have been murdered by atheistic states than so called Christians throughout the history of man.
That being said spot is correct in his comments on exclusivism. Exclusivism leads to all kinds of evil things: division, war, racial intolerance, religious intolerance, hatred, arrogance, animosity, murder, terrorism and a whole host of other evils. Jesus did not intend this to happen. Exclusivism has not place in the Christian faith or any other faith for that matter.
All of the great faiths of the world were founded upon two principles; justice and compassion. Look at what man has done to them in the name of God.
After some 40+ years of study both informal and formal and continuing at universities and the Vancouver School of Theology I have been led to accept the position of a Christian pluralist. That is I recognize the validity of all of the great faiths.
Now to answer the question. Exclusivism is the problem and Jesus never intended that. In fact he never intended to start a new religion. Like Luther he wanted to reform the church from within. He was a very devout practicing Jew.
The fact is that Jesus never made such a comment. It is a midrashim. If you want clarification of that term I can give it to you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Welcome. I do hope you enjoy your wanderings in the garden.
I do agree with some of what spot says. However, and at the moment I cannot remember the source, more people have been murdered by atheistic states than so called Christians throughout the history of man.
That being said spot is correct in his comments on exclusivism. Exclusivism leads to all kinds of evil things: division, war, racial intolerance, religious intolerance, hatred, arrogance, animosity, murder, terrorism and a whole host of other evils. Jesus did not intend this to happen. Exclusivism has not place in the Christian faith or any other faith for that matter.
All of the great faiths of the world were founded upon two principles; justice and compassion. Look at what man has done to them in the name of God.
After some 40+ years of study both informal and formal and continuing at universities and the Vancouver School of Theology I have been led to accept the position of a Christian pluralist. That is I recognize the validity of all of the great faiths.
Now to answer the question. Exclusivism is the problem and Jesus never intended that. In fact he never intended to start a new religion. Like Luther he wanted to reform the church from within. He was a very devout practicing Jew.
The fact is that Jesus never made such a comment. It is a midrashim. If you want clarification of that term I can give it to you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
So what in God's name is motivating all these wretched missionaries and evangelists then? I've lots of Hindu friends and not one of them has the slightest desire to convert anyone because they don't get taught that Hinduism is an exclusive path to God.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
spot:-6
Right on.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Right on.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Jester;774856 wrote: Its not to go Kill them that for sure!
When something makes you content, deeply content, do you not want to tell others how it made you feel?
Most real christian missionaries do it out of pure love.
Christianity doesnt work if its forced, my experince is that folks reject both the person and the message if you bombard them with it. Its like my arguments with Ted, the more dogmatic I get in presenting the truth the more it will turn folks off of veiwing my posts. Eventually they will associate me with my dogma and reject me as well. Its why I rarely, and this is the first time I have ever gotten so argumentative with anyone, online or in person.
Theres a place for a very peaceful presentation by a missionary who truly desires to help and share the gospel to a group they feel called to serve. When its done in the right spirit it is amazingly successful and perfectly recieved and God prepares the hearts of those who would recive the word ahead of the missionary.
Ive read or been told stories and even see the results of whole villages that have turned around and become 'christian' and survice the test of time.
The opposite is when a man tries to win souls in their own conciet, the work fails, the man fails and God is dishonored and it hurts the reputation of all true missionaries.
I would ask why the whole of South America's Catholic and point at the Conquistadores at this point if I thought that you were suggesting that forced conversion does not happen and cannot work.
History, especially British history, is littered with examples of mass forced conversion.
When something makes you content, deeply content, do you not want to tell others how it made you feel?
Most real christian missionaries do it out of pure love.
Christianity doesnt work if its forced, my experince is that folks reject both the person and the message if you bombard them with it. Its like my arguments with Ted, the more dogmatic I get in presenting the truth the more it will turn folks off of veiwing my posts. Eventually they will associate me with my dogma and reject me as well. Its why I rarely, and this is the first time I have ever gotten so argumentative with anyone, online or in person.
Theres a place for a very peaceful presentation by a missionary who truly desires to help and share the gospel to a group they feel called to serve. When its done in the right spirit it is amazingly successful and perfectly recieved and God prepares the hearts of those who would recive the word ahead of the missionary.
Ive read or been told stories and even see the results of whole villages that have turned around and become 'christian' and survice the test of time.
The opposite is when a man tries to win souls in their own conciet, the work fails, the man fails and God is dishonored and it hurts the reputation of all true missionaries.
I would ask why the whole of South America's Catholic and point at the Conquistadores at this point if I thought that you were suggesting that forced conversion does not happen and cannot work.
History, especially British history, is littered with examples of mass forced conversion.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
History is also littered with examples of the mass ethnic cleansing of non-Christians by those who might otherwise have known better. Does nobody in this thread see a fundamentally psychotic dissonance between America's on the one hand being the most Christian God-fearing nation on earth and on the other having a total inability to negotiate, to turn the other cheek, to walk the extra mile, to love its neighbour as itself? Personal morality has nothing to do with the actions of the State, is that the fall-back people use to clear their collective conscience?
What's the state religion of those countries the Christian American population is screaming for a chance to obliterate from the face of the planet? It's Islam, that's what. It's the countries run by those Islamic Jihadist heathen devil-worshippers, that's who. Anything Middle Eastern and Islamic is intrinsically detestable because it claims a relationship with God which, from a Christian perspective, thanks to the passages I quoted, is an impossibility. The problem isn't in Islam, it isn't in the Middle East, it's certainly not in the US constitution, it's in the interpretation of the bible which says those passages relate to here, to now and to non-Christians. The direct consequence of this interpretation, that the deliberate choice of these non-Christians to remain true to their own faiths removes from them all possibility of salvation, is the urge to kill them all by the million and to actually feel good about doing it.
Christians don't need guns, they need mirrors. They'll come face to face with Jihadists a lot sooner that way.
What's the state religion of those countries the Christian American population is screaming for a chance to obliterate from the face of the planet? It's Islam, that's what. It's the countries run by those Islamic Jihadist heathen devil-worshippers, that's who. Anything Middle Eastern and Islamic is intrinsically detestable because it claims a relationship with God which, from a Christian perspective, thanks to the passages I quoted, is an impossibility. The problem isn't in Islam, it isn't in the Middle East, it's certainly not in the US constitution, it's in the interpretation of the bible which says those passages relate to here, to now and to non-Christians. The direct consequence of this interpretation, that the deliberate choice of these non-Christians to remain true to their own faiths removes from them all possibility of salvation, is the urge to kill them all by the million and to actually feel good about doing it.
Christians don't need guns, they need mirrors. They'll come face to face with Jihadists a lot sooner that way.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Well that's told the Jesuits and no mistake. The Pope should obviously pull all his priests out of South America and abandon the continent immediately.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Jester wrote: 90% of the world today is NOT christian... I very very small percentage of the world is truly a beliver in God in my humble opinion.And - just to make the point for later - all the rest will go to Hell?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Tim LaHaye should have a medal cast specially for you!
Nobody anywhere could possibly want you off the forum, I've no idea where that came from.
Nobody anywhere could possibly want you off the forum, I've no idea where that came from.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Jester;774894 wrote: Has it truly taken hold?, are the hearts changed? do they serve God today out of tradition or out of service to God. I would say by and large most forced belief in religion is done out of tradition and it is not heartbased.
As I suggested, look at South America - the grafted on religion took in a big way. That's why it's such a good example.
As I suggested, look at South America - the grafted on religion took in a big way. That's why it's such a good example.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Jester;774856 wrote:
When something makes you content, deeply content, do you not want to tell others how it made you feel?
Yes, Jester, you do.
I don't share your beliefs on a lot of things but when you say something like that, which seems very simple, yet very profound, I do :-6
When something makes you content, deeply content, do you not want to tell others how it made you feel?
Yes, Jester, you do.
I don't share your beliefs on a lot of things but when you say something like that, which seems very simple, yet very profound, I do :-6
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Well, I guess I have stirred up a hornets nest with this one. I am glad to see all the discussion. I could spend 24/7 in cyberspace and all peoples are curious about this topic. My grandson says if there is a God why does He not just fix everything that is wrong with the world? I tell him that then he would complain because his life was not his own to do with as he wishing...go figure?
No one can prove any of these theories, but that's what makes it so special is that it is by grace through "faith" that you are saved, not of works lest any man should boast. If I could prove my part of this discussion there would be no need to discuss it.
I hope we stay friends through all this.
Bobby
No one can prove any of these theories, but that's what makes it so special is that it is by grace through "faith" that you are saved, not of works lest any man should boast. If I could prove my part of this discussion there would be no need to discuss it.
I hope we stay friends through all this.
Bobby
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Who, out of interest, has theorised, and where?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
I can agree that we are "saved" or better transformed through grace by faith. The original meaning of the word translated as faith is "trust". There are many folks in all faiths who trust in God.
All of the world's great faiths are founded on two principles; justice and compassion. There are extremists in every faith on both ends of the scale and that includes Christianity.
That being said, if anyone thinks they have a handle on the truth they are deluding themselves. At best we can hope to begin to approach the truth.
One truth is that basic Islam was founded on faith in the same God as Judaism. Muhammad was quite willing to acknowledge that. Since there is only one God all those who seek God and revere him are acceptable to him, Acts 10. This includes all of the great faiths of the world.
Shalom
Ted:-6
All of the world's great faiths are founded on two principles; justice and compassion. There are extremists in every faith on both ends of the scale and that includes Christianity.
That being said, if anyone thinks they have a handle on the truth they are deluding themselves. At best we can hope to begin to approach the truth.
One truth is that basic Islam was founded on faith in the same God as Judaism. Muhammad was quite willing to acknowledge that. Since there is only one God all those who seek God and revere him are acceptable to him, Acts 10. This includes all of the great faiths of the world.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Jester;774953 wrote: I'm not sure what you wrote this in refernce to Spot, can you be more specific?
I should have quoted, I forget sometimes. It was Bobby's "No one can prove any of these theories, but that's what makes it so special" that I was looking at when I typed.
I should have quoted, I forget sometimes. It was Bobby's "No one can prove any of these theories, but that's what makes it so special" that I was looking at when I typed.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
jester:-6
You are the one who told me you go back to the original.
The noun translated faith is 'pistis' and the verb usually rendered believe is 'pisteuo'. When the NT speaks of faith in God or Jesus it uses the word pistis which properly translated means "trust". It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with right belief. Perhaps you should go back to the original more often.
I guess your interpretation is the result of using common sense instead of checking out the historical reality. That is precisely why I study. I want to know not just guess or lean on my own understanding.
pistis=trust.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You are the one who told me you go back to the original.
The noun translated faith is 'pistis' and the verb usually rendered believe is 'pisteuo'. When the NT speaks of faith in God or Jesus it uses the word pistis which properly translated means "trust". It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with right belief. Perhaps you should go back to the original more often.
I guess your interpretation is the result of using common sense instead of checking out the historical reality. That is precisely why I study. I want to know not just guess or lean on my own understanding.
pistis=trust.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
πίστιc
Transliteration pistis
Pronunciation pē'-stēs
Part of Speech feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology) from G3982
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
a) relating to God
1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
b) relating to Christ
1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
c) the religious beliefs of Christians
d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
2) fidelity, faithfulness
a) the character of one who can be relied on
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πιστός
Transliteration pistos
Pronunciation pē-sto's
Part of Speech adjective
Root Word (Etymology) from G3982
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) trusty, faithful
a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties
b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust
c) that can be relied on
2) easily persuaded
a) believing, confiding, trusting
b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises
1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead
2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation.
I got these from Blue Letter Bible Lexicon
Transliteration pistis
Pronunciation pē'-stēs
Part of Speech feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology) from G3982
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
a) relating to God
1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
b) relating to Christ
1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
c) the religious beliefs of Christians
d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
2) fidelity, faithfulness
a) the character of one who can be relied on
___________________________________________________________________
πιστός
Transliteration pistos
Pronunciation pē-sto's
Part of Speech adjective
Root Word (Etymology) from G3982
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) trusty, faithful
a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties
b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust
c) that can be relied on
2) easily persuaded
a) believing, confiding, trusting
b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises
1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead
2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation.
I got these from Blue Letter Bible Lexicon
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Having the Greek lexicon in front of me I read pistis=trust which both of you have confirmed. The ancient word does not include pistis=belief in a body of doctrine. That is a modern interpretation.
So I will go back to the original and what it meant not what it necessarily means today.
Now if you want to hold that belief i.e. belief in a body of doctrine, I have no problem with it. However, that is not reflective of its ancient use.
Shalom
Ted:-6
So I will go back to the original and what it meant not what it necessarily means today.
Now if you want to hold that belief i.e. belief in a body of doctrine, I have no problem with it. However, that is not reflective of its ancient use.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ the son of Mary was just another messager of Yahu'a no more no less !
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Daniyal;907331 wrote: Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ the son of Mary was just another messager of Yahu'a no more no less !
Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ the son of Mary was just another oral legend, no more no less.
What are we doing, giving unfounded opinion or speaking on behalf of God here?
Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ the son of Mary was just another oral legend, no more no less.
What are we doing, giving unfounded opinion or speaking on behalf of God here?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
spot;907595 wrote: Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ the son of Mary was just another oral legend, no more no less.
What are we doing, giving unfounded opinion or speaking on behalf of God here?
Just facts nomore noless !
What are we doing, giving unfounded opinion or speaking on behalf of God here?
Just facts nomore noless !
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
spot:-6
Perhaps but there are many scholarly folks who don't agree with you on that one.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Perhaps but there are many scholarly folks who don't agree with you on that one.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Ted;908376 wrote: spot:-6
Perhaps but there are many scholarly folks who don't agree with you on that one.
Shalom
Ted:-6
LOLOLOL Who do you say Yashu'a Is / Be
.. According to scriptures that is ....
Perhaps but there are many scholarly folks who don't agree with you on that one.
Shalom
Ted:-6
LOLOLOL Who do you say Yashu'a Is / Be
.. According to scriptures that is ....Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Daniyal:-6
What I might say about Jesus is simply my opinion as I was not there at the time. Since scripture uses midrash, allegory, metaphor etc. it is difficult to make a final and conclusive declaration. I know what I think but as with anyone else since we were not there we have no way of knowing for sure. Anyone who thinks they do is living in a delusion. No one has the final answer to the ultimate reality.
Shalom
Ted:-6
What I might say about Jesus is simply my opinion as I was not there at the time. Since scripture uses midrash, allegory, metaphor etc. it is difficult to make a final and conclusive declaration. I know what I think but as with anyone else since we were not there we have no way of knowing for sure. Anyone who thinks they do is living in a delusion. No one has the final answer to the ultimate reality.
Shalom
Ted:-6