3 arrested in Holloway case...

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:12 am

I was just reading the news and I read that the three suspects in the Natalie Holloway case were re-arrested...because new evidence surfaced...its sad because I forgot about that case until I just read the news again....sad....sad...sad!!! That poor girl...what was she thinking? But does anyone know WHAT the new evidence was?

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:15 am

Golly,,, that's been a tense discussion on forumgarden in its time.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6345 if you'd like to catch up.

Would you mind if I merge this thread into that so it sticks to the back catalog of discussion?

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:39 am

without having to wade through a whole other thread what is this about?

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:56 am

Either (1) Natalee Ann Holloway (born 1986-10-21), from Mountain Brook, Alabama, United States, disappeared on 2005-05-30 during a graduation trip in Aruba. Holloway remains officially missing to this day, although according to Aruban authorities, she is most likely dead. The disappearance generated a media sensation in both the U.S. and Aruba and sparked considerable interest in the Netherlands.

Or (2) there was a prolonged disagreement on ForumGarden as to whether minors were safer drinking in Aruba or in the US during graduation celebrations.

Take your pick.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:17 am

I'm interested to know what the new evidence is....it obviously hasn't been released....I was just wondering if by chance anyone else had read on it...No I don't think it matters if the teen is drinking in the US or Arubu or Timbuktu for that matter...I DO think its important to teach kids what can happen when you drink and try to help them from making a devestating mistake...

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:30 am

drumbunny1;723575 wrote: I don't think it matters if the teen is drinking in the US or Arubu or Timbuktu for that matter...I DO think its important to teach kids what can happen when you drink and try to help them from making a devestating mistake...

How do you go about that when it's illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to drink anything alcoholic even in social circumstances at home? I can't see many people successfully employing parenting skills for the first time on a 21 year old - "here, son, let me pour you a beer now you're legally grown". It's fine with a teenager, it's a bit of a strain with a man in his twenties. I think it's important to teach kids what can happen when you drink and try to help them from making a devastating mistake too, but I'm flummoxed as to how you'd go about it in those circumstances. Are there guidebooks on how it might be done short of taking them on foreign holidays?

Anyway... the new evidence. T J Ward Jr "President & CEO, Investigative Consultants International" got himself onto Fox News last night claiming the new break is his and concerns - he seems quite persistently keen on this solution - Paulus Van der Sloot spiriting bodies off beaches onto a yacht with nobody seeing it happen. Pigs might fly, and I'll apologize to T J if he turns out to be right. I think he's drumming up trade and Fox doesn't seem to mind who it interviews.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:18 pm

Well I agree with you that its difficult...I mean kids don't come with handbooks right? Its different for every family....but I know when I was growing up my mom just burned it into my head things like "Do not drink anything unless you saw the bartender make it, always go out with friends...never alone, etc." anyways...like I said every family is different but I think a devestating mistake could have been avoided if she wouldn't have gone out by herself! Also you can teach your kids all you want...sometimes they just don't listen!

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:37 pm

You seriously don't think that having laws which allows families to introduce teenagers to alcoholic drinks in a controlled and civilized way might be an improvement? That was pretty much the bone of contention first time round.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:59 am

I don't know about that one...what do you mean by a controlled enviroment...examples? Like in a bar...at home?

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:18 am

Here's the latest on Natalie, Drumbunny. It's a very sad case indeed for the family. The mother had believed that her daughter may have been kidnapped and brought to a foreign country. I don't think she's still alive, but there's always hope.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/ ... ay.arrest/

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:29 am

drumbunny1;723906 wrote: I don't know about that one...what do you mean by a controlled enviroment...examples? Like in a bar...at home?

At home worked fine for me. What's wrong with at home?

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:34 am

drumbunny1;723549 wrote: But does anyone know WHAT the new evidence was?

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf reports that the new evidence comes from recently monitored telephone calls between the three suspects, the last people known to have seen Natalee Holloway before she went missing two-and-a-half years ago. Her disappearance has received major media coverage in the United States, amid angry accusations that the Aruban authorities have not been doing enough to solve the case.

That's from Radio Netherlands this afternoon.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:02 pm

I don't think there's really anything wrong with it...as long as they stay home! Its almost one of those things you could have the teen drink something like tequila and hate life the next day! It may even teach them not to drink again!

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:06 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it illegal in the US to provide alcohol to a person under 21 at home? At what age does it become legal to do that if it isn't 21?

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:09 pm

Yes it it illegal...but what exactly are you trying to get at? Ofcourse I know its illegal...I was just agreeing that it may curb irresponsible drinking if they are allowed to drink at home.....ofcourse thats illegal in this country...BUT you are also allowed to drink underage with parental consent AT HOME....

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:10 pm

In some states alteast....Not sure about all of them....

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:12 pm

drumbunny1;724163 wrote: BUT you are also allowed to drink underage with parental consent AT HOME....What on earth does illegal mean in this context? That's what I thought we were talking about, drinking under 21 with parental consent at home. You're saying it's legal?

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:15 pm

Yes in some states it it...it could be for a religious reason or whatever as long as the parent is there and gives full consent...but like I said thats only in some states...I don't believe all of them follow that...

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:18 pm

Some detail would be very welcome if you can provide it. I thought I'd looked these things up in the past and got a reasonable overview but apparently not.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:21 pm

I can do that...but it would have to be later...I can tell you that my brother is a Police officer and has been since I was about 16...so I kinda hounded him about underage drinking laws in the state of Oregon.....so yes I will look some detail up for you...but I'll have to do it a little later!

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:10 pm

I don't know how to link pages....still kinda new at the whole thing....a good site is the International Center for Alcohol Policies Drinking Age Limits....sorry to make you work for it...but I still can't figure out how to link....also Wikipedia is a good site for info if you look up Drinking age limits in US....its funny because the age is 21...but theres a lot of excpetions....

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:15 pm

Bunny,

Just copy the link address from your address bar and paste it in your post by clicking the icon that shows a globe (or earth) with two little chain links on it. A box will pop up and you can paste the link in that box.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:19 pm

http://http://www.grsproadsafety.org/th ... Limits.pdf

Thanks a bunch Red!!!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:10 am

You're very welcome, Bunny!

I have a question. I am on the fence on this one. Are we blaming a young woman for getting killed? I don't just mean here, I mean as a general consensus. She was irresponsible to get drunk (if that is what she did) and leave herself open yet....

1. would we say that if it were a man?

2. isn't that like telling a rape victim they "asked for it?"

3. At what point do we stop blaming the victim and blame the killers?

I can't decide on this.

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:55 am

Oh no! I would never ever blame a woman or man for that matter of being raped...ofcourse its not their fault...its the sick SOB's fault ofcourse...I was just saying its very sad...she didn't deserve it in the least...but I think some situations like that could be avoided if women were more careful....its a bummer but thats the kind of world we live in...bad things happen to good people....and rapes and murders will still happen even if we're careful, but atleast its some defense