Have you seen the reports of the Russian Air Force's probes to test out the UK's defences?
They've restarted stealth and long range bomber sorties into British airspace to test reaction times after many years of silence. Apparently they're impressed but the fact that they feel the need is worrying.
It's all circling the drain.
It's all circling the drain.
Ties that bind
— Gazprom, Russia’s state-controlled energy company, has invested $750 million (£370 million) in projects in Iran
— Russia exports $2 billion of metal and machinery to Iran a year
— Russia has supplied nuclear technology to Iran, including the $1 billion Bushehr reactor
— Russia is a key supplier of arms to Iran, including a $700 million air-defence system, MiG29 combat aircraft and T72 tanks
— Iran’s goodwill is useful for Russia’s attempts to control fractious Muslim minorities in Central Asia and the Caucasus
— Both countries oppose the eastward expansion of Nato
Sources: Council on Foreign Relations; Institute for Defence Studies
— Gazprom, Russia’s state-controlled energy company, has invested $750 million (£370 million) in projects in Iran
— Russia exports $2 billion of metal and machinery to Iran a year
— Russia has supplied nuclear technology to Iran, including the $1 billion Bushehr reactor
— Russia is a key supplier of arms to Iran, including a $700 million air-defence system, MiG29 combat aircraft and T72 tanks
— Iran’s goodwill is useful for Russia’s attempts to control fractious Muslim minorities in Central Asia and the Caucasus
— Both countries oppose the eastward expansion of Nato
Sources: Council on Foreign Relations; Institute for Defence Studies
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
It's all circling the drain.
It's about time someone stood up to be counted. I'd vote for the man.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
It's all circling the drain.
Scrat;711678 wrote:
In his first day of talks in Tehran, President Putin has already signed up to a statement with fellow Caspian Sea leaders condemning any use of force in the region and supporting Iran’s right to acquire nuclear technology.
His discussions about co-operation over Caspian Sea energy resources, and likely talks about the completion of a Russian-made nuclear power plant at Bushehr, signal that meaningful sanctions are no longer realistic. The only option left would be unilateral sanctions of the type already imposed by America against Tehran with little effect.
American officials have also been trying to create a commercial incentive for Russia to put pressure on Iran. One proposal the Bush administration has endorsed since late 2005 envisions having the Russians enrich Iran’s uranium in Russia. That creates the prospect of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in business for Russia and a way to ensure that Iran receives only uranium enriched for use in power reactors, instead of weapons.
Iran has rejected those proposals, saying it has the right to enrich uranium on its own territory.
Weird huh........ Russia builds the thing with some funds from Iran and Iran refuses to let Russia enrich their uranium...
Why is that?
Do they have ulterior motives??
If you have proof that they do not have ulterior motives please let us all know. As to this hickabilly it seems they might.
K?
OK.........If not, (Iran DOES NOT have ulterior motives) tell us all why you think this way, when in fact Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and is supplying insurgents in Iraq with weapons to kill innocent people and soldiers.
Please show us ALL the soft side of Iran!!
In his first day of talks in Tehran, President Putin has already signed up to a statement with fellow Caspian Sea leaders condemning any use of force in the region and supporting Iran’s right to acquire nuclear technology.
His discussions about co-operation over Caspian Sea energy resources, and likely talks about the completion of a Russian-made nuclear power plant at Bushehr, signal that meaningful sanctions are no longer realistic. The only option left would be unilateral sanctions of the type already imposed by America against Tehran with little effect.
American officials have also been trying to create a commercial incentive for Russia to put pressure on Iran. One proposal the Bush administration has endorsed since late 2005 envisions having the Russians enrich Iran’s uranium in Russia. That creates the prospect of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in business for Russia and a way to ensure that Iran receives only uranium enriched for use in power reactors, instead of weapons.
Iran has rejected those proposals, saying it has the right to enrich uranium on its own territory.
Weird huh........ Russia builds the thing with some funds from Iran and Iran refuses to let Russia enrich their uranium...
Why is that?
Do they have ulterior motives??
If you have proof that they do not have ulterior motives please let us all know. As to this hickabilly it seems they might.
K?
OK.........If not, (Iran DOES NOT have ulterior motives) tell us all why you think this way, when in fact Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and is supplying insurgents in Iraq with weapons to kill innocent people and soldiers.
Please show us ALL the soft side of Iran!!
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
It's all circling the drain.
spot;712021 wrote: It's about time someone stood up to be counted. I'd vote for the man.
WHO??????
BUSH?:wah:
WHO??????
BUSH?:wah:
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
It's all circling the drain.
Scrat;712023 wrote: BTS. You forgot to add there the upcoming deal for additional S-400 ADS, SU-33 mk fighter bombers (better than the F-15 Strike Eagle), the MANPAD and heavy man portable anti tank capabilities which are in production there. Israel found that out the hard way last year. Those suckers do work don't they? 
I hope you don't mean steel. What else could it be? Machinery?
Russia can do as she likes, support who she likes. Russia is a soveriegn nation with significant interests there in the region.
You have to be a dumbass to put up a post like that. If Russia had a mind to make trouble in the ME what you see in Iraq and Afghanistan NOW would look like a sunday school prayer meeting.
OH REALLY.........
Sunday School!!!!!!!!:wah::wah:
How many wars did your COMMIES (Ruskies) win in the ME?
Or better yet.... How many did they lose?
Did Not win this one for sure (below)
(FOOTNOTE......how long did it take the USA to take over Afghanistan?)
The Soviet war in Afghanistan also known as the Soviet-Afghan War was a nine-year conflict involving Soviet forces supporting the Marxist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) government against the largely Islamic fundamentalist Mujahideen insurgents. The latter group found support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and other Muslim nations in the context of the Cold War. This conflict was concurrent to the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the Iran-Iraq War.
The initial Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on December 25, 1979. The final troop withdrawal began on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989. Due to the high cost and ultimate futility of this conflict, the war in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviet equivalent of the United States' Vietnam War.
Some observers believe the economic and military cost of the war contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991[6].
I hope you don't mean steel. What else could it be? Machinery?
Russia can do as she likes, support who she likes. Russia is a soveriegn nation with significant interests there in the region.
You have to be a dumbass to put up a post like that. If Russia had a mind to make trouble in the ME what you see in Iraq and Afghanistan NOW would look like a sunday school prayer meeting.
OH REALLY.........
Sunday School!!!!!!!!:wah::wah:
How many wars did your COMMIES (Ruskies) win in the ME?
Or better yet.... How many did they lose?
Did Not win this one for sure (below)
(FOOTNOTE......how long did it take the USA to take over Afghanistan?)
The Soviet war in Afghanistan also known as the Soviet-Afghan War was a nine-year conflict involving Soviet forces supporting the Marxist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) government against the largely Islamic fundamentalist Mujahideen insurgents. The latter group found support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and other Muslim nations in the context of the Cold War. This conflict was concurrent to the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the Iran-Iraq War.
The initial Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on December 25, 1979. The final troop withdrawal began on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989. Due to the high cost and ultimate futility of this conflict, the war in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviet equivalent of the United States' Vietnam War.
Some observers believe the economic and military cost of the war contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991[6].
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
-
double helix
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:32 pm
It's all circling the drain.
[QUOTE=Scrat;711678]Seems the CIS (Confederation of Independant States) have had enough. This has to be maddening to Bushco in the 9th degree. I saw Bush trying to defend his "friendship" with Putin on the tube. That guys out of touch with himself let alone the world. Putin knows Bush is not Russias friend nor is America or the EU, actions say the west has no interest in a lasting peace.[QUOTE]
It's been know for along time now, that Russia has ties to the Middle East, remnants of the Communist days. Do you think the Russian People have decided to go along peacefully, with their government? Do you think they want to go back to the old ways?
Didn't Russia lose a chunk of its Republic when they ended the Communist regimen? I think its just a bit smaller now.
Sure, Russia seeks to ally itself with its old brethren. But what do its people want and how long before they begin to say it LOUDLY, along with the people of Iran who have, and continue to, demand basic human freedoms. Russia seeks to seize the oil market. America should batten down the hatches, buy permits to harvest dead wood from the PROTECTED forests of its govenment, because if Russia does corner the Eastern market on oil .... get ready to pay!
Yes, the times are changeing.
It's been know for along time now, that Russia has ties to the Middle East, remnants of the Communist days. Do you think the Russian People have decided to go along peacefully, with their government? Do you think they want to go back to the old ways?
Didn't Russia lose a chunk of its Republic when they ended the Communist regimen? I think its just a bit smaller now.
Sure, Russia seeks to ally itself with its old brethren. But what do its people want and how long before they begin to say it LOUDLY, along with the people of Iran who have, and continue to, demand basic human freedoms. Russia seeks to seize the oil market. America should batten down the hatches, buy permits to harvest dead wood from the PROTECTED forests of its govenment, because if Russia does corner the Eastern market on oil .... get ready to pay!
Yes, the times are changeing.
It's all circling the drain.
Scrat;712029 wrote:
Gorby was smart enough to see that there was no point in being there and listened to the people of Russia. Unlike someone we all know who is profiting from it.
So smart he was, that it took 9 years to concede defeat.........?
Ah yes ol Gorby was sharp!!!!!
Wasn't he........huh?
Talkin about profits........ Are the Ruskies profiting from giving Iran nuclear capabilities?
Gorby was smart enough to see that there was no point in being there and listened to the people of Russia. Unlike someone we all know who is profiting from it.
So smart he was, that it took 9 years to concede defeat.........?
Ah yes ol Gorby was sharp!!!!!
Wasn't he........huh?
Talkin about profits........ Are the Ruskies profiting from giving Iran nuclear capabilities?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
It's all circling the drain.
Scrat;712039 wrote: Brezhnev started the war in 1979. Gorby came to power in 1986, he put a stop to it in short order.
1979-1986= 7 years............ not 9 years..........?? My ass It was 9 years, NOT 7 that the Ruskies fought
Show us ALL different... K???
This is (above) "short order" as you say.....HMMMMMM
USA in Iraq= 4 yrs.......HMMMMMMM
4yrs= short order?
5 yrs in Iraq= short order?
6 yrs In Iraq= short order?
ETC............
Are not we STIll in short order? as you say?
1979-1986= 7 years............ not 9 years..........?? My ass It was 9 years, NOT 7 that the Ruskies fought
Show us ALL different... K???
This is (above) "short order" as you say.....HMMMMMM
USA in Iraq= 4 yrs.......HMMMMMMM
4yrs= short order?
5 yrs in Iraq= short order?
6 yrs In Iraq= short order?
ETC............
Are not we STIll in short order? as you say?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
It's all circling the drain.
Scrat;711975 wrote: Bryn. First off Russia does not have a stealth bomber. Never at any time did Russian aircraft penetrate British airspace. What the Russians sent into the Greenland UK gap was 50 year old Bear ELINT gathering aircraft. They checked all of the usual frequencies and listened to NATO comms ect. In early Sept a flight of Blackjack bombers were practicing north of Norway but never entered the North Sea. The US airforce never stopped running recon missions anywhere nor did NATO.
At least the Typhoon pilots have something better to do now than sit on the runway playing video games in those 50 million dollar toys.
I think the Russians just don't feel a need to do this, they HAVE a need to keep their ability to defend themselves.
This is a TU-95 Bear. It has propellers for gods sake and it takes 16 hours round trip.
My apologies - I'd only seen a brief clip and I mistook the Blackjack.
The report certainly suggested that it was many years since the Russians had tested the UK response and that, as you say, the intercept was made well before UK airspace was reached.
My question was more "why now"? What is the trigger that has caused the Russians to feel the need to restart the posturing?
At least the Typhoon pilots have something better to do now than sit on the runway playing video games in those 50 million dollar toys.
I think the Russians just don't feel a need to do this, they HAVE a need to keep their ability to defend themselves.
This is a TU-95 Bear. It has propellers for gods sake and it takes 16 hours round trip.
My apologies - I'd only seen a brief clip and I mistook the Blackjack.
The report certainly suggested that it was many years since the Russians had tested the UK response and that, as you say, the intercept was made well before UK airspace was reached.
My question was more "why now"? What is the trigger that has caused the Russians to feel the need to restart the posturing?
It's all circling the drain.
Bryn Mawr;712048 wrote: My question was more "why now"? What is the trigger that has caused the Russians to feel the need to restart the posturing?
Posturing? That's not a good description at all - call it information gathering.
Posturing? That's not a good description at all - call it information gathering.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
It's all circling the drain.
BTS;712033 wrote: So smart he was, that it took 9 years to concede defeat.........?
Ah yes ol Gorby was sharp!!!!!
Wasn't he........huh?
Talkin about profits........ Are the Ruskies profiting from giving Iran nuclear capabilities?
You are overlooking the fact that the russians were helping the elected afghan government against a fundamentalist muslim insurgency. Thanks to aid given by the USA and others the Taliban got control in afghanistan. Who are now the enemy in afghanistan? exactly the same type of fundamentalists that the russians were fighting. Good forward planning there- train and equip those you are going to fight later but have a good gloat because they defeated the russians and conveniently forget your part in it all. If the US had gone for afghanistan immedialtely after 911 they would have had widespread support but instead you invaded Iraq who had nothing whatsoever to do with it.
You also ignore the fact that the US actively aided and encouraged saddam in his war on Iran. Iran won that one if you remember.
Some observers believe the economic and military cost of the war contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991[6].
Russia has enough natural resources of it's own to the extent it doesn't really need the middle east. Obviously it's going to protect its interests in the caspian sea. It's not just Russia that is looking to control oil supplies the US is quite openly doing the same. Why is it you condemn russia but not the US? As an american are you prepared to go to war over oil? because that is what you have done and have an administration that thinks it can win any war.
You have an administration that makes no bones about it's intention to go to war to make sure it controls the middle east and to maintain it's economic and military superiority yet by doing so is more likely to lose it. If all you offer is confrontation then sooner or later you get the conflict you want except the results might not be what you expect.
posted by bryn mawr
My question was more "why now"? What is the trigger that has caused the Russians to feel the need to restart the posturing?
How do you expect them to react when the US announces it is going to place anti-ballistic missile systems along its borders for the rather ridiculous reason that iran might fire a missile at europe? Or former soviet sphere nations become members of nato You rattle your sabre I will rattle mine. It's a warning. Russia has no reason to go to war and much to lose if it does. On the other hand maybe they've learned from the cold war and will concentrate on economic warfare instead. In that they have all the advantages in terms of resources that the rest of the world needs and are running out. China is making sure it could stand up to the states if it has to as well. Economically it's becoming stronger and stronger as will Russia
posted by bts
Some observers believe the economic and military cost of the war contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991
Who knows maybe they will say the same about the US thirty years from now when your own oil is gone and you can't afford to import it any more.
On the other hand Poland has just elected a liberal govt that wants to move on from the old hatreds of the past and became part of the eu. sooner or later russia will end up moving on as well, it doesn't seem to be them that is hanging to the animosities of the past unless somebody smacks them in the face with it.
Forget Iran and worry about pakistan, they DO have nuclear weapons and are about to go fundamentalist.
Ah yes ol Gorby was sharp!!!!!
Wasn't he........huh?
Talkin about profits........ Are the Ruskies profiting from giving Iran nuclear capabilities?
You are overlooking the fact that the russians were helping the elected afghan government against a fundamentalist muslim insurgency. Thanks to aid given by the USA and others the Taliban got control in afghanistan. Who are now the enemy in afghanistan? exactly the same type of fundamentalists that the russians were fighting. Good forward planning there- train and equip those you are going to fight later but have a good gloat because they defeated the russians and conveniently forget your part in it all. If the US had gone for afghanistan immedialtely after 911 they would have had widespread support but instead you invaded Iraq who had nothing whatsoever to do with it.
You also ignore the fact that the US actively aided and encouraged saddam in his war on Iran. Iran won that one if you remember.
Some observers believe the economic and military cost of the war contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991[6].
Russia has enough natural resources of it's own to the extent it doesn't really need the middle east. Obviously it's going to protect its interests in the caspian sea. It's not just Russia that is looking to control oil supplies the US is quite openly doing the same. Why is it you condemn russia but not the US? As an american are you prepared to go to war over oil? because that is what you have done and have an administration that thinks it can win any war.
You have an administration that makes no bones about it's intention to go to war to make sure it controls the middle east and to maintain it's economic and military superiority yet by doing so is more likely to lose it. If all you offer is confrontation then sooner or later you get the conflict you want except the results might not be what you expect.
posted by bryn mawr
My question was more "why now"? What is the trigger that has caused the Russians to feel the need to restart the posturing?
How do you expect them to react when the US announces it is going to place anti-ballistic missile systems along its borders for the rather ridiculous reason that iran might fire a missile at europe? Or former soviet sphere nations become members of nato You rattle your sabre I will rattle mine. It's a warning. Russia has no reason to go to war and much to lose if it does. On the other hand maybe they've learned from the cold war and will concentrate on economic warfare instead. In that they have all the advantages in terms of resources that the rest of the world needs and are running out. China is making sure it could stand up to the states if it has to as well. Economically it's becoming stronger and stronger as will Russia
posted by bts
Some observers believe the economic and military cost of the war contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991
Who knows maybe they will say the same about the US thirty years from now when your own oil is gone and you can't afford to import it any more.
On the other hand Poland has just elected a liberal govt that wants to move on from the old hatreds of the past and became part of the eu. sooner or later russia will end up moving on as well, it doesn't seem to be them that is hanging to the animosities of the past unless somebody smacks them in the face with it.
Forget Iran and worry about pakistan, they DO have nuclear weapons and are about to go fundamentalist.
It's all circling the drain.
posted by double helix
It's been know for along time now, that Russia has ties to the Middle East, remnants of the Communist days. Do you think the Russian People have decided to go along peacefully, with their government? Do you think they want to go back to the old ways?
Didn't Russia lose a chunk of its Republic when they ended the Communist regimen? I think its just a bit smaller now.
Russia was one of the last empires in the sense where one ethnic group conquered and ruled another. Poland, Czechoslovakia etc were in their sphere of influence and are now frantic to join the EU as it were but ukraine, Georgia Uzbekistan, seberia and all the rest had been made part of the empire long ago and now want their independence but Russia still has lots of clout if it chooses to use it. Some of the peripheral states are muslim-all the stans as it were, hence the russian concern about fundamentalism they are worried about their own back yard.
Do you think they want to go back to the old ways?
How about you? You have to make the same choice. Do you as an american want another cold war-or war by proxy in the middle east? Have you decided to go peaceably along with your government.
posted by double helix
Russia seeks to seize the oil market. America should batten down the hatches, buy permits to harvest dead wood from the PROTECTED forests of its govenment, because if Russia does corner the Eastern market on oil .... get ready to pay!
http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainpages/oilmap.html
Now when Saudi goes fundamentalist-bear in mind where all this current crop of terrorism started and the nationality of the 911 terrorists what will the US do then? There probably are other sources out there but at some point oil will run out. Short term thinking about resources and squabbling about who controls it just makes no sense at all.
It's been know for along time now, that Russia has ties to the Middle East, remnants of the Communist days. Do you think the Russian People have decided to go along peacefully, with their government? Do you think they want to go back to the old ways?
Didn't Russia lose a chunk of its Republic when they ended the Communist regimen? I think its just a bit smaller now.
Russia was one of the last empires in the sense where one ethnic group conquered and ruled another. Poland, Czechoslovakia etc were in their sphere of influence and are now frantic to join the EU as it were but ukraine, Georgia Uzbekistan, seberia and all the rest had been made part of the empire long ago and now want their independence but Russia still has lots of clout if it chooses to use it. Some of the peripheral states are muslim-all the stans as it were, hence the russian concern about fundamentalism they are worried about their own back yard.
Do you think they want to go back to the old ways?
How about you? You have to make the same choice. Do you as an american want another cold war-or war by proxy in the middle east? Have you decided to go peaceably along with your government.
posted by double helix
Russia seeks to seize the oil market. America should batten down the hatches, buy permits to harvest dead wood from the PROTECTED forests of its govenment, because if Russia does corner the Eastern market on oil .... get ready to pay!
http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainpages/oilmap.html
Now when Saudi goes fundamentalist-bear in mind where all this current crop of terrorism started and the nationality of the 911 terrorists what will the US do then? There probably are other sources out there but at some point oil will run out. Short term thinking about resources and squabbling about who controls it just makes no sense at all.