English History

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:07 am

comic Sans

Does anyone know about English history?

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:34 am

We're not as pure as some would like to believe :wah:

Seriously, depends on what bits you mean.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:58 am

i am fairly conversant...anything or anyone in particular?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:24 pm

I know nothing about English history. I guess you have to be a minority to have your history taught.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:35 pm

[QUOTE=BabyRider]I know nothing about English history. I guess you have to be a minority to have your history taught.[/QUOTE

Standard in all english schools.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:25 pm

This is what I know.. I know that we belonged originally to England. And thus The American Revolution. I know about the first colonys here ( which always gives me goose bumps. I love to visit James Town The first English colony in Virginia. I may be wrong but I think that the Scottish loathe the English. ( learned that from a scottish roomate I had years ago.I know about the English king who broke away from the church to start a new religion so that he could divorce his wife from Spain. Methodist??? Learned that in the movie Anne of One Thousand Days. I know that we have always felt connected to each other... Id like to learn more.....

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:56 pm

BabyRider wrote: I know nothing about English history. I guess you have to be a minority to have your history taught.
This really doesn't make sense to me at all, would you explain this comment please?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:58 pm

may i suggest some superb books instead of hollywood versions of history....david starkey's "six wives, the queens of Henry Vlll", alison plowden "Elizabeth l", clayton and craig, "Trafalgar", tomalin "Samuel Pepys". and there are so many more. the internet is an excellent source as well....(and Weeder, Henry Vlll broke with rome to obtain divorce, and created Church of England. he subsequently sacked the monasteries, and his daughter Mary (bloody mary) burned a whole lot of protestants at tyburn.)

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:10 pm

Patrica Cornwell's Jack the Ripper... She doesn't just write fiction although Jack the Ripper will always be a mystery.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:17 pm

lady cop wrote: may i suggest some superb books instead of hollywood versions of history....david starkey's "six wives, the queens of Henry Vlll", alison plowden "Elizabeth l", clayton and craig, "Trafalgar", tomalin "Samuel Pepys". and there are so many more. the internet is an excellent source as well....(and Weeder, Henry Vlll broke with rome to obtain divorce, and created Church of England. he subsequently sacked the monasteries, and his daughter Mary (bloody mary) burned a whole lot of protestants at tyburn.)
Blummin-eck LC...ya put me to shame haha x

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:44 pm

Bill Sikes is yer Man. Calling Bill Sikes? :driving:

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:15 am

I'm not very good with American history but I likes a good ghost story, oh'ar.

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:25 am

Do you like reading Oliver Twist?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:55 am

Depending how you approach it history is either fascinating or incredibly boring. Try these links for a populist overview of early american history. There are also massive archives available on US sites as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/empi ... n_01.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_cu ... s_01.shtml

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.ph ... rative.191

http://www.history-compass.com/Pilot/no ... es/003.pdf

http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/nc/ ... glish1.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/h ... bbean.html

http://americanhistory.about.com/cs/col ... lonial.htm

So far as English history is concerned how far back do you want to go? Also you can't seperate it from european history generally or a lot of it makes little sense. How about the hundred years war with France? If you want to know why the English use a two fingered gesture it makes a good story.

The Scots hate the English depending on who you ask-I married one so personally I am quite open minded. Most scots know less about their own history than they think they do.

try this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/ ... tion.shtml

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:45 am

The English King who broke away from the church was King Henry 8th, his father was Henry 7th. King Henry 8thÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Spanish wife was Catherine of Aragon who tried desperately to give him a son, Henry dissoluted the English churches because the Catholic faith wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t let him divorce Catherine for Ann Boleyn who was CatherineÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s lady in waiting. Catherine went to a monastery where I believe she died.

Websites to look at about this are:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page19.asp (bit drawn out)

http://www.brims.co.uk/tudors/ (a little more easier to understand, but itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s intended for children)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_f ... king.shtml http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/henryviii.htm

I know a girl who lives in Stirling in Scotland who likes Americans.

For Jack the ripper please look at:

http://www.accomodata.co.uk/jack.htm

http://www.met.police.uk/history/ripper.htm

http://hosted.ray.easynet.co.uk/serial_ ... techa.html

http://www.jack-the-ripper-walk.co.uk/

:-6

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:30 am

Thank you. I loved the movie Anne of One thousand days. The scottish girl who lived with me didnt hate Americans She said the scottish hate The English. Hate is maybe a strong word .. blames England for Scotland having unemployment and such.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:28 pm

gmc wrote: Depending how you approach it history is either fascinating or incredibly boring. Try these links for a populist overview of early american history. There are also massive archives available on US sites as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/empi ... n_01.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_cu ... s_01.shtml

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.ph ... rative.191

http://www.history-compass.com/Pilot/no ... es/003.pdf

http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/nc/ ... glish1.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/h ... bbean.html

http://americanhistory.about.com/cs/col ... lonial.htm

So far as English history is concerned how far back do you want to go? Also you can't seperate it from european history generally or a lot of it makes little sense. How about the hundred years war with France? If you want to know why the English use a two fingered gesture it makes a good story.

The Scots hate the English depending on who you ask-I married one so personally I am quite open minded. Most scots know less about their own history than they think they do.

try this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/ ... tion.shtml Thank you gmc.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:24 pm

weeder wrote: This is what I know.. I know that we belonged originally to England. And thus The American Revolution. I know about the first colonys here ( which always gives me goose bumps. I love to visit James Town The first English colony in Virginia. I may be wrong but I think that the Scottish loathe the English. ( learned that from a scottish roomate I had years ago.I know about the English king who broke away from the church to start a new religion so that he could divorce his wife from Spain. Methodist??? Learned that in the movie Anne of One Thousand Days. I know that we have always felt connected to each other... Id like to learn more.....
Sorry Weeder----------You are talking American History, not English History.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:40 pm

Oh boy am I embarassed.. Now to sound even more stupid.... why arent the two connected. If the English broke away from England and colonized here... why isnt it our history and Their history?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:52 pm

weeder wrote: Oh boy am I embarassed.. Now to sound even more stupid.... why arent the two connected. If the English broke away from England and colonized here... why isnt it our history and Their history?
The two historys are distinctly different Weeder. My British ancestors were among the first to settle in what is now America. They lived in the 17th century in upstate New York. They never did break away from England and were in fact Loyalists during the Revolutionary War and fled to what is now Nova Scotia. They came back to New York and re-settled after the war ended. That is a part of American History.

English History would cover more ground and an even longer time period going back to Celts, Roman Legions, Norman Conquest, 100 Years War, all the Kings & Queens, Magna Carta etc., etc.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:00 pm

:wah: Yep that's right, America is a baby compared to Europe as history goes if you discount native history.

Hey maybe that's why they are now invading other countries etc. Just like the rest of us did through history :wah:

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:11 pm

Lon, That is fascinating. I truly am ashamed that I hsve such a poor education in history, You know there are so many subjects I wasnt interested way back then,

that I would love to know about now. My only excuse is that my teachers were so boring, and also at that age I was hungry to learn about the subjects I loved. Speech and Drama and dance. I am going to just read this thread and learn.. not even try to stick my toe in. Thanks again.. weeder

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:14 am

posted by lon

The two historys are distinctly different Weeder. My British ancestors were among the first to settle in what is now America. They lived in the 17th century in upstate New York. They never did break away from England and were in fact Loyalists during the Revolutionary War and fled to what is now Nova Scotia. They came back to New York and re-settled after the war ended. That is a part of American History.

English History would cover more ground and an even longer time period going back to Celts, Roman Legions, Norman Conquest, 100 Years War, all the Kings & Queens, Magna Carta etc., etc.

After 1776 they really are different up until then the two were connected, if you want to understand where your constitution comes from you need to look to european and english history to get the background. One of thee reasons you have a seperation of church and state is your founding fathers did not want to import the vicious religious hatreds of england.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_cu ... s_05.shtml

When the American Congress set out their political principles in the Declaration of Independence on July 4th 1776, the ideas were taken straight from the English Levellers a century and a quarter before:

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the governed.

The Americans had also drawn heavily on the writings of Tom Paine, who was a direct heir of the Leveller tradition, and whose Rights of Man also won him a place in the history of the French Revolution (he was elected a Deputy to the first French Constituent Assembly surmmoned to implement the principles of 'liberty, equality and fraternity'). The English reformers of the early 19th century also drew many of their ideas and language from the Levellers' mix of Christian teaching, religious and political dissent, social equality and democracy. It fired the imagination of generations of Congregationalists, trade union pioneers, early co-operators, Chartists, and socialists.

It's an age old debate, who rules and why should we let them?

I suggest you read the populist stuff like the bbs links and then just follow what interests you.

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:59 pm

weeder wrote: I know about the English king who broke away from the church to start a new religion so that he could divorce his wife from Spain. Methodist??? Learned that in the movie Anne of One Thousand Days. I know that we have always felt connected to each other... Id like to learn more.....

The infamous King in question is Henry the Eighth. He became the King under whom the Anglican Church rose.

It was one of his daughters that helped to create the English that we know and write today.

While she was Queen one her her old suitors from Spain decided to send his armed forces into England. This is the infamous, failed Spanish Armada. It was destroyed by a vast storm that virtually destroyed it.

Elizabeth the First. She is one of those that created the English language into the phenomenon that it is today.

Try this link for Elizabeth http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/eliza.htm

How did she do it?

It was as simple as making all of her Ambassadors, legates and people serving in the foreign lands of the day, observe and take note of the languages that were spoken and written in the world as it was known then. They were told to write down the words and meanings that the different words had in the regions that they were living in while under service to the Queen.

When they returned from the lands that they lived in they brought with them this information and handed them over to those that responsible for Anglicizing the words and entering their meanings into the lexicon of the day.

By doing this, English became a language that utilized all the others for its basic vocabulary. In essence, when you speak English, you speak all the other languages of the world as it was known then, but, with the Anglicized version of the words with which this flourishing language grew and is growing even today.

Another popular citizen of the day was the person that always wanted to please her Majesty, William Shakespeare. He held favour with the Queen and she attended his plays. This is Like Bush going to your local neighbourhood theater.

Gotta walk the dog.

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:54 am

Did anyone see Songs of Praise on BBC 1 at 6pm Sunday 23rd, about the Holocaust? I thought it was well done, anyone else agree?

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:05 am

Have to say I never watch Songs of Praise

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:16 am

It was very sad. A group from a college went to visit Auschwitz and there was huge piles of shoes, hair, false limbs, toys, suitcases and cyclone b canisters. Each tin of gas represents thousands of people being killed. It had me in tears the way they showed everything.

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:15 am

Check out sites like:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/

www.bbc.co.uk/history/histori.../henry_iii_king.shtml

http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/tudor.htm

http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~nhunt/18 ... wives.html

Hope this helps.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:50 am

Bill Sikes is good on English history. What about Bothwell?

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:53 am

Jennifer, Richard III is a very interesting character, much maligned not least by Shakespeare, contemporary writings show he was much admired by the people of the time and had to cope with loss of a young son and his wife within a year. On the other side he may have been responsible for infanticide.

Henry VIII, well enough said, what a guy.

Eleanor, she was pretty tough, the daughter of Geoffrey of Anjou she was actually a cousin of her husband Henry II, she bore him six children of which I think 4 were sons, that alone in the 12th century was remarkable but she was much more than just a wife and mother.

It always makes me laugh when I consider the outrage at Charles/Camilla/Diana etc when you read any history of our Kings and Queens it makes this modern lot look like angels.

Oh and I almost forgot, suggested reading "This Island Race" by Winston Churchill, you may want to try a library as this tome is expensive.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: Bill Sikes is good on English history. What about Bothwell?
Where is Bill anyone know?? havent heard from him for a while, i miss his posts:-2

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:51 am

Bothwell wrote: Jennifer, Richard III is a very interesting character, much maligned not least by Shakespeare, contemporary writings show he was much admired by the people of the time and had to cope with loss of a young son and his wife within a year. On the other side he may have been responsible for infanticide.

Henry VIII, well enough said, what a guy.

Eleanor, she was pretty tough, the daughter of Geoffrey of Anjou she was actually a cousin of her husband Henry II, she bore him six children of which I think 4 were sons, that alone in the 12th century was remarkable but she was much more than just a wife and mother.

It always makes me laugh when I consider the outrage at Charles/Camilla/Diana etc when you read any history of our Kings and Queens it makes this modern lot look like angels.

Oh and I almost forgot, suggested reading "This Island Race" by Winston Churchill, you may want to try a library as this tome is expensive.
I'm suprised noone has mentioned the anglo-saxon chronicles. It's one of my favourite books! (yep, we have a copy!) The true history of britain goes back before stonehenge and the beaker people! This little island has had so many people fighting over it, it's staggering! Not to mention the all famous 'roman invasion' just a few years after the crucifixtion of Christ. Queen Boudicca rocks!

But the history of the druids, and the legends of King Arthur spring from the vacuum of the romans deserting Britannia to the saxons! How many people know that the Welsh are whats left of the original Britons? The english of today come from anglo-saxon, norse and norman descent. (almost forgot the jutes!) The Scots are a mix of celt and pictish descent. Whatever happened to the picts, anyway? This island has some of the BEST history in the world!

Post by **kensloft** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:46 pm

Raven wrote: I'm suprised noone has mentioned the anglo-saxon chronicles. It's one of my favourite books! (yep, we have a copy!) The true history of britain goes back before stonehenge and the beaker people! This little island has had so many people fighting over it, it's staggering! Not to mention the all famous 'roman invasion' just a few years after the crucifixtion of Christ. Queen Boudicca rocks!

But the history of the druids, and the legends of King Arthur spring from the vacuum of the romans deserting Britannia to the saxons! How many people know that the Welsh are whats left of the original Britons? The english of today come from anglo-saxon, norse and norman descent. (almost forgot the jutes!) The Scots are a mix of celt and pictish descent. Whatever happened to the picts, anyway? This island has some of the BEST history in the world!
Good point. The history of the Islands from the beginning should be posted so that people will know that there ois a lot of history there. It would be nice to learn more here rather than have to go through reams of paper to be able to come up with one or two lines of new information. Someone out there has to be sitting on a treasure trove of information. Share it with us.

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:45 am

I know Stonehenge very well, I have done the soltice up there and it was freezing! I never knew the welsh were the last of the original Briton's, what would of happened if the Nazis had won the war, and tried to invade Scotland? I hope you didn't mind me asking?

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:53 am

I for one will not acknowledge any welsh heritage

oh hang on HenryVIII aka Henry Tudor, he was a little welsh

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:38 pm

posted by raven

The Scots are a mix of celt and pictish descent. Whatever happened to the picts, anyway? This island has some of the BEST history in the world!

Don't forget the danes, the swedes, the norwegians the gaels the Normans. The picts are still here somewhere in the genes.

posted by Aura

what would of happened if the Nazis had won the war, and tried to invade Scotland? I hope you didn't mind me asking?

Same thing if they had invaded England. I don't think they would have been able to hold on to it for very long. It's doubtful the americans would have got involved in the war against Hitler

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:55 am

Are the Picts in Wranglers or levie's?

The American's wern't too keen to help until the Japaniese bombed Pearl Harbour.

Aura · Post by **Aura** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:58 am

[QUOTE=Aura]Are the Picts in Wranglers or levie's? :p

The American's wern't too keen to help until the Japaniese bombed Pearl Harbour.

Life is too short to be sad

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:48 pm

kensloft wrote: Good point. The history of the Islands from the beginning should be posted so that people will know that there ois a lot of history there. It would be nice to learn more here rather than have to go through reams of paper to be able to come up with one or two lines of new information. Someone out there has to be sitting on a treasure trove of information. Share it with us.

First of all, you have to understand, that since the melting of the glaciers covering this bit of dirt, there have ALWAYS been people on it. One of the oldest testaments to these people is stonehenge. This henge was done in phases over a period of about 9 centuries. From 2200 to 1300 BC. The 'beaker' people, arrived about 2000 BC. End of the neolithic period, early bronze age. The celts arrived about 800 BC. Beginning of the iron age. Everyone who has ever inhabited this island seems to have migrated from the continent. According to Gildas, a Celtic monk, who was one of Britains earliest historians, say the Celts were 'completely ignorant of the practice of war'.

Now the sources for my information are the national trust historical atlas of britain and the oxford illustrated history of britain. (just thought I would throw that in there!)

Now the tribes occupying britain at the time of the roman invasion (I'll just name the main ones) were the Iceni (queen boudicca) and their neighbors, the trinovantes (essex region), the dumnonii (cornwall) the parisi (midlands) and the caledonian tribes (scotland). These people were steadily progressing to 'kingdom' like states.(counties) Of course after julias ceasar 'came and saw', he conquered. All except caledonia. And the native druids, he butchered and destroyed into Anglesey (wales). Actually it was Claudius who did the butchering.

The romans occupied Britain for about 400 years. For further reading.....LOL! might I suggest,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3383868

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:19 pm

Raven wrote: First of all, you have to understand, that since the melting of the glaciers covering this bit of dirt, there have ALWAYS been people on it. One of the oldest testaments to these people is stonehenge. This henge was done in phases over a period of about 9 centuries. From 2200 to 1300 BC. The 'beaker' people, arrived about 2000 BC. End of the neolithic period, early bronze age. The celts arrived about 800 BC. Beginning of the iron age. Everyone who has ever inhabited this island seems to have migrated from the continent. According to Gildas, a Celtic monk, who was one of Britains earliest historians, say the Celts were 'completely ignorant of the practice of war'.

Now the sources for my information are the national trust historical atlas of britain and the oxford illustrated history of britain. (just thought I would throw that in there!)

Now the tribes occupying britain at the time of the roman invasion (I'll just name the main ones) were the Iceni (queen boudicca) and their neighbors, the trinovantes (essex region), the dumnonii (cornwall) the parisi (midlands) and the caledonian tribes (scotland). These people were steadily progressing to 'kingdom' like states.(counties) Of course after julias ceasar 'came and saw', he conquered. All except caledonia. And the native druids, he butchered and destroyed into Anglesey (wales). Actually it was Claudius who did the butchering.

The romans occupied Britain for about 400 years. For further reading.....LOL! might I suggest,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3383868

Thanks. Awesome. Give me more!

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:15 am

jennifer35 wrote: I think 'they' wanted in, just had to have a reason to convince the people, the taxpayers. England would have had it thought, to be fair, had the Americans not come to our rescue. We were down and out with machinery, but not spirit. Jenny p.s. I have the Anglo Saxon Chronicles.
I love that book! An actual 'on the ground' account of what life was like in medieval Britain.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:06 am

We're certainly kindred spirits then!

I love the Arthur legends. We're going on a camping holiday to Wales, this summer. I'm going in search of 'Merlin'! I, too have keen interest in the bog mummies. I've been to the british museum twice now. These people werent just your ordinary 'pagans'! National Geographic had a spectacular article on the bog mummy. Thats where I had first heard of him. And now that I'm actually over here!... :driving: I'm going to join our local archaeology group, so I can start digging. LOL! We went to colchester last summer, and stood in the actual remains of the roman temple to claudius that boudicca torched! Not to mention the actual jail cells where they kept the essex withches during their trials! I've got a picture, I'll see if I can post it.

Here they are! The infamous Colchester dungeon where they kept the witches of essex and tortured them! Courtesy of Matthew Hopkins, witchfinder general!

The second pic is of colchester castle. This was built upon the ruins of the roman temple of Claudius. Boudicca burnt it to the ground. (with lots of romans in it at the time!) The last pic is from the norman times, when the castle was built. It shows a couple of doodles from a norman soldier. One is of a 'witch sign'. Supposed to keep away witches bad spells.

Attached files

Post by **kensloft** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:19 pm

Schliemann? No wonder he died from worms. Regardless of that, it was him and the west or the Turkish Empire that would have benefitted. What little there is at least changed history and our understanding of it. Homer moved up a few notches with that one.

I enjoyed him and a quasi-autobiograhic book based on his life with hs wife. It was an interesting perspective.

The bog man is from 300 ad? Askin'?